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NFT: Brooks not buying that Quinn is safe due to BU connection

Victor in CT : 5/10/2021 8:55 am
with Drury. Neither am I. Drury has been successful in everything he has ever done. You don't get that from being sentimental.
The determining factor in Chris Drury’s massive David Quinn decision - ( New Window )
At a minimum, the Rangers have a few big issues  
JonC : 5/10/2021 9:03 am : link
namely 1) no grit, 2) slow development of young players including many not seeing sensible ice time, 3) unable to key fix positional deficiencies, 4) what's the plan to turn their collection of talent into a cohesive, comprehensive pro hockey club, 5) it sure seems the veterans do not respect Quinn. To claim Quinn is safe would run counter to logic, especially after firing the GM and President.
We'll likely find out today  
Anakim : 5/10/2021 9:08 am : link
As today is exit interviews
RE: At a minimum, the Rangers have a few big issues  
Victor in CT : 5/10/2021 9:08 am : link
In comment 15259514 JonC said:
Quote:
namely 1) no grit, 2) slow development of young players including many not seeing sensible ice time, 3) unable to key fix positional deficiencies, 4) what's the plan to turn their collection of talent into a cohesive, comprehensive pro hockey club, 5) it sure seems the veterans do not respect Quinn. To claim Quinn is safe would run counter to logic, especially after firing the GM and President.


yup. I agree on all points.
I know this will be very unpopular  
Essex : 5/10/2021 9:40 am : link
and I know people think it would be a terrible fit because of the way he stifles skilled talent, but I think a Torts reunion is what this team needs. The structure he brings to the third period is something this team lacked all season. He is a proven winner (was successful in 3 of the 4 of his NHL stops) and we are at the point in our rebuild where we can use him to get to the next level.
The owner is the primary issue, but at this point no way he makes it  
George from PA : 5/10/2021 9:54 am : link
....with entire new mgt....it will be a clean slate.
RE: At a minimum, the Rangers have a few big issues  
ColHowPepper : 5/10/2021 10:26 am : link
In comment 15259514 JonC said:
Quote:
namely 1) no grit, 2) slow development of young players including many not seeing sensible ice time, 3) unable to key fix positional deficiencies, 4) what's the plan to turn their collection of talent into a cohesive, comprehensive pro hockey club, 5) it sure seems the veterans do not respect Quinn. To claim Quinn is safe would run counter to logic, especially after firing the GM and President.
I'd quibble a bit by saying, 1/not enough grit across the board; 2/not enough TOI for the kids, for sure, but development has been there, maybe the compromise is to say DQ wasn't putting them in position to fail enough. Roster construction is certainly an issue, been saying that for a year.

It's interesting on DQ alienation of the vets: I posited that early in the season during Zib's drought, but it was circumstantial, more body language and what was not said. Then came DQ's covid and Zib caught fire. The whole Td'A handling. Strome comes out this morning and says this:
Quote:
"It was certainly bizarre. I think we dealt with a lot of things, some things that the media might not even know about. There's a lot of internal things going on all the time...
Palace intrigue. The other anomaly in my mind is that after JD came on board, I didn't see anything that suggested he was leaving his mark, his influence, not later, not sooner.
CHP  
JonC : 5/10/2021 10:37 am : link
Good post. The unceremonious dumping of JD is odd. Dolan is certainly at a level where he can do whatever he wants, but it was a surprise. It didn't seem like much changed on the surface since he was here, but I dunno what the president does in their structure.
RE: RE: At a minimum, the Rangers have a few big issues  
Victor in CT : 5/10/2021 10:47 am : link
In comment 15259597 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 15259514 JonC said:


Quote:


namely 1) no grit, 2) slow development of young players including many not seeing sensible ice time, 3) unable to key fix positional deficiencies, 4) what's the plan to turn their collection of talent into a cohesive, comprehensive pro hockey club, 5) it sure seems the veterans do not respect Quinn. To claim Quinn is safe would run counter to logic, especially after firing the GM and President.

I'd quibble a bit by saying, 1/not enough grit across the board; 2/not enough TOI for the kids, for sure, but development has been there, maybe the compromise is to say DQ wasn't putting them in position to fail enough. Roster construction is certainly an issue, been saying that for a year.

It's interesting on DQ alienation of the vets: I posited that early in the season during Zib's drought, but it was circumstantial, more body language and what was not said. Then came DQ's covid and Zib caught fire. The whole Td'A handling. Strome comes out this morning and says this:

Quote:


"It was certainly bizarre. I think we dealt with a lot of things, some things that the media might not even know about. There's a lot of internal things going on all the time...

Palace intrigue. The other anomaly in my mind is that after JD came on board, I didn't see anything that suggested he was leaving his mark, his influence, not later, not sooner.


Interesting point on JDs lack of imprint. Can't say I disagree.
Questions re: coaching  
NYG22 : 5/10/2021 10:49 am : link
Re: Quinn:

-do you buy into the notion that players, especially the skill guys like Panerin, are frustrated with DQ because of his insistence on simple/direct north/south hockey?

-do I have the correct impression about DQ that he is uncommonly prone to juggle lines and this creates a lack of chemistry and fewer scoring chances when high end skill guys are matched with 4th line types?

Re: Roy and Gallant:

-it seems both have bad reputations for being volatile, self-serving and difficult; are these reputations legit?

Re: Torterella:

-Does anyone not think that his typical environment is ill-suited for the early development of all the young, highly regarded prospects?

Other:

-In the NBA and NFL, there are always a bevy of young coach in waiting prospects (e.g. Brandon Staley, Robert Salah); do you get the sense the NHL tends to churn more in terms of older coaches and younger guys are less bandied about in terms of up and coming coaches?
Torts grinds his players into the ice  
JonC : 5/10/2021 10:56 am : link
.
RE: Torts grinds his players into the ice  
NYG22 : 5/10/2021 11:04 am : link
In comment 15259641 JonC said:
Quote:
.


I am not disagreeing nor am I an in favor of Torts, but would you say that Torts approach is different than Thibs?
I dunno  
JonC : 5/10/2021 11:10 am : link
but the grinding tends to have a short shelf-life, and NYR is loaded with young prospects who need development and patience.
I don't want Torts  
PwndPapi : 5/10/2021 11:12 am : link
anywhere near this team.
I generally don't believe Larry Brooks  
Greg from LI : 5/10/2021 11:12 am : link
So I see no reason to trust him now.

I really don't see them bringing Tortorella back, especially at his age. Just doesn't seem to be a fit with a very young, skill-oriented roster.
RE: Questions re: coaching  
Victor in CT : 5/10/2021 11:13 am : link
In comment 15259628 NYG22 said:
[quote] Re: Quinn:

-do you buy into the notion that players, especially the skill guys like Panerin, are frustrated with DQ because of his insistence on simple/direct north/south hockey?

I think the bigger issue is that they don't respect him and choose to ignore him, and their insistence on playing teir way did not manifest itself in wins, especially against good teams. and they got away with it, which is a bad look for Quinn.
RE: Questions re: coaching  
Mike in NY : 5/10/2021 11:18 am : link
In comment 15259628 NYG22 said:
Quote:
Re: Quinn:

-do you buy into the notion that players, especially the skill guys like Panerin, are frustrated with DQ because of his insistence on simple/direct north/south hockey?

-do I have the correct impression about DQ that he is uncommonly prone to juggle lines and this creates a lack of chemistry and fewer scoring chances when high end skill guys are matched with 4th line types?

Re: Roy and Gallant:

-it seems both have bad reputations for being volatile, self-serving and difficult; are these reputations legit?

I think that there was a reason Vegas decided to get rid of Gallant despite the team's success. Peter Laviolette is another coach that has tended to get fired despite his teams producing on the ice.

Re: Torterella:

-Does anyone not think that his typical environment is ill-suited for the early development of all the young, highly regarded prospects?

Looking at what happened in Columbus I would not be so keen on bringing him back.

Other:

-In the NBA and NFL, there are always a bevy of young coach in waiting prospects (e.g. Brandon Staley, Robert Salah); do you get the sense the NHL tends to churn more in terms of older coaches and younger guys are less bandied about in terms of up and coming coaches?

Hockey is different because you tend to have fewer assistant coaches and you are trying to develop people with all sorts of diverse backgrounds. In NFL or NBA there are different schemes, but generally it is similar development patterns. Hockey in different countries is viewed differently.
...  
ColHowPepper : 5/10/2021 11:26 am : link
Greg on Brooks: When his piece on Drury came out this w/e (re. what will determine DQ's fate--exit interviews), praising his hockey intelligence and steely will and not a guy who will suck up to Dolan, etc., I thought, hmm, Brooks positioning himself to become Drury's go to media guy?

Victor on vets and Quinn:
Quote:
I think the bigger issue is that they don't respect him and choose to ignore him, and their insistence on playing teir way did not manifest itself in wins, especially against good teams. and they got away with it, which is a bad look for Quinn.
I've seen this often here, maybe you, Victor? lol. But it has developed into a bit of a meme. My question: what is the evidence for it, any of it? It's not that I don't accept it as possible or likely, I just have no basis for validating it. Maybe I've missed stuff on BSB or elsewhere.
been there, done that with Tortorella.  
Victor in CT : 5/10/2021 11:28 am : link
if they were really close and needed a kick in the ass like the end of 1992-93, maybe. but they aren't.
I like Torts generally, for the record  
Greg from LI : 5/10/2021 11:33 am : link
But I just don't see him as right for this team at this time. As Victor said, it might be different if they were a team that was capable of competing but needed a kick in the ass to get close.

I just hope to God that reading Patrick Roy's name is some kind of inside joke. Keep that lunatic away from the team.
Torts would suck  
Anakim : 5/10/2021 11:43 am : link
Look what happened to PLD, Max Domi, Laine...


No, give me Gallant
RE: I like Torts generally, for the record  
Anakim : 5/10/2021 11:43 am : link
In comment 15259692 Greg from LI said:
Quote:


I just hope to God that reading Patrick Roy's name is some kind of inside joke. Keep that lunatic away from the team.



His name came up because he's looking to get back into coaching and because he and Drury were teammates in Colorado
I'd be  
Professor Falken : 5/10/2021 12:05 pm : link
fine with Knoblauch as coach. I don't need retreads or lunatics.
I'm not buying this narrative  
PwndPapi : 5/10/2021 12:07 pm : link
that the vets don't respect Quinn. If that were the case, there'd be no hiding it and it would have progressively gotten worse throughout the year and he would have been fired.

I also don't buy the narrative that the team played significantly better when he was out due to Covid. It was a 4 game stretch that included PHI and BUFF.

RE: Torts would suck  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2021 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15259712 Anakim said:
Quote:
Look what happened to PLD, Max Domi, Laine...


No, give me Gallant


Torts coached Panarin too, lol

RE: I'd be  
Anakim : 5/10/2021 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15259735 Professor Falken said:
Quote:
fine with Knoblauch as coach. I don't need retreads or lunatics.


Highly doubt it. They want a guy who can win now. Knoblauch is a developmental coach. He should stick in Hartford for now.
RE: Torts would suck  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/10/2021 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15259712 Anakim said:
Quote:
Look what happened to PLD, Max Domi, Laine...


No, give me Gallant


OTOH, Torts had the youngest team in the league last season and his team looked a helluva lot better in the bubble than the Rangers did. I’m not a Torts fan, but he coached young teams the entire time in Columbus to relative success and developed some young players with the Rangers. This situation, however, is even more extreme in terms of youth.
RE: ...  
Victor in CT : 5/10/2021 12:44 pm : link
In comment 15259683 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
Greg on Brooks: When his piece on Drury came out this w/e (re. what will determine DQ's fate--exit interviews), praising his hockey intelligence and steely will and not a guy who will suck up to Dolan, etc., I thought, hmm, Brooks positioning himself to become Drury's go to media guy?

Victor on vets and Quinn:

Quote:


I think the bigger issue is that they don't respect him and choose to ignore him, and their insistence on playing teir way did not manifest itself in wins, especially against good teams. and they got away with it, which is a bad look for Quinn.

I've seen this often here, maybe you, Victor? lol. But it has developed into a bit of a meme. My question: what is the evidence for it, any of it? It's not that I don't accept it as possible or likely, I just have no basis for validating it. Maybe I've missed stuff on BSB or elsewhere.


Brooks wrote a column on it (attached).

"But more consequential than that, it has also been clear that the high-end players have had little if any interest in changing their approach in order to accommodate the coach. It is their way, their increasingly obstinate way, in which there has been no quarter given by either side."

I don't just make shit up. If not "disrespect", definitely seem like they're tuning him out.
Rangers must resolve disconnect between David Quinn and top forwards - ( New Window )
I'll tell you who  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2021 12:48 pm : link
would be interesting for the Rangers is Claude Julien.

he's in the Vigneault mold of coaches and I hated his handling of the young players (does any fan not hate the head coaches handling of young players?) but he has a ring, and a long track record of success. Very well respected and regarded around the league.

if the Rangers feel they are contenders I wonder if he gets an interview. Health issues may be another negative for him.
RE: I'll tell you who  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2021 12:49 pm : link
In comment 15259784 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
would be interesting for the Rangers is Claude Julien.

he's in the Vigneault mold of coaches and I hated his handling of the young players (does any fan not hate the head coaches handling of young players?) but he has a ring, and a long track record of success. Very well respected and regarded around the league.

if the Rangers feel they are contenders I wonder if he gets an interview. Health issues may be another negative for him.



that's assuming Quinn is in fact not retained, which sounds like he will be.
The team under Torts  
PwndPapi : 5/10/2021 12:49 pm : link
was a veteran team that got older. If you want to give him credit for developing McDonough, okay. Staal, okay.

I don't particularly recall anyone playing above their career averages under Torts. For all their "grit", they couldn't score for shit even after that disastrous St. Louis deal.
RE: At a minimum, the Rangers have a few big issues  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 5/10/2021 12:54 pm : link
In comment 15259514 JonC said:
Quote:
namely 1) no grit, 2) slow development of young players including many not seeing sensible ice time, 3) unable to key fix positional deficiencies, 4) what's the plan to turn their collection of talent into a cohesive, comprehensive pro hockey club, 5) it sure seems the veterans do not respect Quinn.

The bigger issue is the pressure from an owner who knows jack. I am not a big Quinn fan, but assume he has no long-term future with NYR no matter what as the young guys are still going to need time to develop.
There's no narrative  
JonC : 5/10/2021 12:58 pm : link
the vets on this team are not producing since the covid outbreak, they look mentally checked out too often.
It is a narrative, Jon  
PwndPapi : 5/10/2021 1:11 pm : link
Panarin would have had over 100 pts in a full season, despite missing two weeks. Same for Zibby. Buchnevich is quickly becoming one of the better wingers in the league and would have approached 40 goals and 100 pts. Adam Fox was among the league leaders in points from a Dman. Strome played well.

Sure. Kreider had a disappointing season and Trouba was merely okay until he went down. I wouldn't call that an indictment of the veterans or that Quinn has lost the respect of the vets, which is what I was referring to. There's absolutely no indication of that.

The issues with this team were that they need to improve the bottom 6 - many of which don't belong on an NHL roster. The team was also incredibly young and inconsistent. Which is to be expected. Many games were simply feast or famine. The #1 center got off to a poor start in a shortened season, the #1 goalie missed significant time and dmen were very small and young (particularly when Trouba went down) and they lacked someone who can win faceoffs.

These are growing pains of a young team.
It's both  
JonC : 5/10/2021 1:12 pm : link
and it's not only growing pains.
RE: I generally don't believe Larry Brooks  
Stufftherun : 5/10/2021 1:13 pm : link
In comment 15259668 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
So I see no reason to trust him now.

I really don't see them bringing Tortorella back, especially at his age. Just doesn't seem to be a fit with a very young, skill-oriented roster.


I couldn't agree more. Brooks loves to stir the pot and pontificates as if he somehow influences the decisions made at the highest levels of the organization.

Brooks statement that the summer is about the "next step" is rather obvious and that would still be the case whether Quinn is behind the bench or not. What I don't agree with is his assessment that it's not "too soon" contending for the Cup. To discount an inexperienced and youthful roster, the shortened 2021 season, the need to tweak the roster and the teams we all know to be better, should not be discounted.

.  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2021 1:54 pm : link
Mollie Walker
@MollieeWalkerr
·
20m
#NYR
announce they’ve agreed to a three-year contract with Ryan Lindgren
Those of you  
The Jake : 5/10/2021 3:17 pm : link
saying Torts is unlikely to come back, you're forgetting one thing - Dolan absolutely LOVES Torts, and Dolan is the captain of this ship of fools.
RE: Those of you  
Anakim : 5/10/2021 3:19 pm : link
In comment 15259935 The Jake said:
Quote:
saying Torts is unlikely to come back, you're forgetting one thing - Dolan absolutely LOVES Torts, and Dolan is the captain of this ship of fools.


True, but the way things ended the last time wasn't pretty. I mean he was canned after three consecutive playoff appearances. He may have a fan in Dolan, but I don't know if he has a fan in Sather.
I don't think Roy is a real consideration  
PwndPapi : 5/10/2021 3:22 pm : link
Guy is a hothead and total control freak. He'll want final call on all personnel decisions and then take his ball and go home when he's overruled. He couldn't even make it work with Joe Sakic.
RE: RE: Torts would suck  
Anakim : 5/10/2021 3:25 pm : link
In comment 15259737 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15259712 Anakim said:


Quote:


Look what happened to PLD, Max Domi, Laine...


No, give me Gallant



Torts coached Panarin too, lol


Yeah, he apparently loves Panarin
Well, today we should find out about Quinn's status  
Anakim : 5/11/2021 8:14 am : link
.
My gut  
jv : 5/11/2021 2:41 pm : link
tells me the silence is a bad sign for Quinn's employment. If they were going to keep him you'd think they'd give him a vote of confidence by now.
RE: Torts grinds his players into the ice  
GFAN52 : 5/11/2021 2:46 pm : link
In comment 15259641 JonC said:
Quote:
.


Been there, done that with Torts, no thanks to a reunion.
RE: My gut  
Anakim : 5/11/2021 2:47 pm : link
In comment 15260853 jv said:
Quote:
tells me the silence is a bad sign for Quinn's employment. If they were going to keep him you'd think they'd give him a vote of confidence by now.


By contrast, no news is good news...for Quinn. I mean if Drury doesn't make any sort of statement, we can assume the status quo.
Couple of interesting quotes from Elliott Friedman  
Greg from LI : 5/11/2021 2:49 pm : link
First -
Quote:
Chris Drury is pretty popular. Not sure what he’s going to do with his front office, but there’s a lot of interest in working for him, and, by extension, the Rangers.


Second, about Eichel -
Quote:
The obvious suitor is the Rangers, who made a legit pitch one year ago. If they want to do it, they definitely can. They weren’t willing to do a first-rounder last fall — it was No. 1 overall — but unless they win the lottery back-to-back, that’ll be an option this time around. No GM will be more comfortable with Eichel’s representatives, Peter Fish and Peter Donatelli, than Chris Drury, who was their client when he played.
Absolutely no on Eichel  
Anakim : 5/11/2021 2:51 pm : link
No thank you
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/11/2021 2:53 pm : link
Eichel depends on price and what we do with Zibanejad for me.
RE: Absolutely no on Eichel  
Greg from LI : 5/11/2021 2:56 pm : link
In comment 15260873 Anakim said:
Quote:
No thank you


Why not? I can understand being hesistant depending on the cost, but "absolutely no"?
The neck  
jv : 5/11/2021 2:56 pm : link
is pretty scary on Eichel. Depends what the price is to me. If he can make a full recovery he fills a glaring need. 31 Thoughts got into some MMA fighters who have had the procedure he would like and it did sound encouraging. No real data on the long term ramifications of an artificial disc though
...  
BrettNYG10 : 5/11/2021 3:10 pm : link
I'm a big no on Torts too, I think he's a very good coach but there always seems to be a star player that wants out - at least post TB. We can't risk that.

I'd prefer Gallant or Boudreau. I know I'm in the minority on the second one lol.
I'd actually be  
jv : 5/11/2021 3:13 pm : link
in favor of giving the job to Kris Knoblauch. Guy has won everywhere he's been. Team seemed to really respond to his presence when he took over for Quinn's COVID.
Would like to see somebody  
Bricktop : 5/11/2021 4:10 pm : link
like Kevin Weekes get a shot at a position within the FO. He's always been excellent whenever I've listened.
Does he want one?  
Greg from LI : 5/11/2021 4:14 pm : link
Maybe he likes the gig he has on NHLN. He does good work there, and no pressure.
I'd be a definite  
pjcas18 : 5/11/2021 4:17 pm : link
yes on Eichel if the neck checks out. I hope the Habs get him, they're lacking elite talent unless you count Suzuki and Caufield.

Eichel he says he expects the neck will heel fine and he'll be ready for 2021-2022.

Though Eichel's comments in the press the past few days aren't doing him any favors helping him get himself traded.
RE: RE: Absolutely no on Eichel  
Anakim : 5/11/2021 5:17 pm : link
In comment 15260884 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15260873 Anakim said:


Quote:


No thank you



Why not? I can understand being hesistant depending on the cost, but "absolutely no"?



10M per + coming off neck surgery + he complains a lot + the cost will be steep
Eichel  
five5 : 5/11/2021 5:23 pm : link
exactly the type of player the don't need
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