namely 1) no grit, 2) slow development of young players including many not seeing sensible ice time, 3) unable to key fix positional deficiencies, 4) what's the plan to turn their collection of talent into a cohesive, comprehensive pro hockey club, 5) it sure seems the veterans do not respect Quinn. To claim Quinn is safe would run counter to logic, especially after firing the GM and President.
namely 1) no grit, 2) slow development of young players including many not seeing sensible ice time, 3) unable to key fix positional deficiencies, 4) what's the plan to turn their collection of talent into a cohesive, comprehensive pro hockey club, 5) it sure seems the veterans do not respect Quinn. To claim Quinn is safe would run counter to logic, especially after firing the GM and President.
and I know people think it would be a terrible fit because of the way he stifles skilled talent, but I think a Torts reunion is what this team needs. The structure he brings to the third period is something this team lacked all season. He is a proven winner (was successful in 3 of the 4 of his NHL stops) and we are at the point in our rebuild where we can use him to get to the next level.
The owner is the primary issue, but at this point no way he makes it
namely 1) no grit, 2) slow development of young players including many not seeing sensible ice time, 3) unable to key fix positional deficiencies, 4) what's the plan to turn their collection of talent into a cohesive, comprehensive pro hockey club, 5) it sure seems the veterans do not respect Quinn. To claim Quinn is safe would run counter to logic, especially after firing the GM and President.
I'd quibble a bit by saying, 1/not enough grit across the board; 2/not enough TOI for the kids, for sure, but development has been there, maybe the compromise is to say DQ wasn't putting them in position to fail enough. Roster construction is certainly an issue, been saying that for a year.
It's interesting on DQ alienation of the vets: I posited that early in the season during Zib's drought, but it was circumstantial, more body language and what was not said. Then came DQ's covid and Zib caught fire. The whole Td'A handling. Strome comes out this morning and says this:
Quote:
"It was certainly bizarre. I think we dealt with a lot of things, some things that the media might not even know about. There's a lot of internal things going on all the time...
Palace intrigue. The other anomaly in my mind is that after JD came on board, I didn't see anything that suggested he was leaving his mark, his influence, not later, not sooner.
Good post. The unceremonious dumping of JD is odd. Dolan is certainly at a level where he can do whatever he wants, but it was a surprise. It didn't seem like much changed on the surface since he was here, but I dunno what the president does in their structure.
RE: RE: At a minimum, the Rangers have a few big issues
namely 1) no grit, 2) slow development of young players including many not seeing sensible ice time, 3) unable to key fix positional deficiencies, 4) what's the plan to turn their collection of talent into a cohesive, comprehensive pro hockey club, 5) it sure seems the veterans do not respect Quinn. To claim Quinn is safe would run counter to logic, especially after firing the GM and President.
I'd quibble a bit by saying, 1/not enough grit across the board; 2/not enough TOI for the kids, for sure, but development has been there, maybe the compromise is to say DQ wasn't putting them in position to fail enough. Roster construction is certainly an issue, been saying that for a year.
It's interesting on DQ alienation of the vets: I posited that early in the season during Zib's drought, but it was circumstantial, more body language and what was not said. Then came DQ's covid and Zib caught fire. The whole Td'A handling. Strome comes out this morning and says this:
Quote:
"It was certainly bizarre. I think we dealt with a lot of things, some things that the media might not even know about. There's a lot of internal things going on all the time...
Palace intrigue. The other anomaly in my mind is that after JD came on board, I didn't see anything that suggested he was leaving his mark, his influence, not later, not sooner.
Interesting point on JDs lack of imprint. Can't say I disagree.
-do you buy into the notion that players, especially the skill guys like Panerin, are frustrated with DQ because of his insistence on simple/direct north/south hockey?
-do I have the correct impression about DQ that he is uncommonly prone to juggle lines and this creates a lack of chemistry and fewer scoring chances when high end skill guys are matched with 4th line types?
Re: Roy and Gallant:
-it seems both have bad reputations for being volatile, self-serving and difficult; are these reputations legit?
Re: Torterella:
-Does anyone not think that his typical environment is ill-suited for the early development of all the young, highly regarded prospects?
Other:
-In the NBA and NFL, there are always a bevy of young coach in waiting prospects (e.g. Brandon Staley, Robert Salah); do you get the sense the NHL tends to churn more in terms of older coaches and younger guys are less bandied about in terms of up and coming coaches?
In comment 15259628 NYG22 said:
[quote] Re: Quinn:
-do you buy into the notion that players, especially the skill guys like Panerin, are frustrated with DQ because of his insistence on simple/direct north/south hockey?
I think the bigger issue is that they don't respect him and choose to ignore him, and their insistence on playing teir way did not manifest itself in wins, especially against good teams. and they got away with it, which is a bad look for Quinn.
-do you buy into the notion that players, especially the skill guys like Panerin, are frustrated with DQ because of his insistence on simple/direct north/south hockey?
-do I have the correct impression about DQ that he is uncommonly prone to juggle lines and this creates a lack of chemistry and fewer scoring chances when high end skill guys are matched with 4th line types?
Re: Roy and Gallant:
-it seems both have bad reputations for being volatile, self-serving and difficult; are these reputations legit?
I think that there was a reason Vegas decided to get rid of Gallant despite the team's success. Peter Laviolette is another coach that has tended to get fired despite his teams producing on the ice.
Re: Torterella:
-Does anyone not think that his typical environment is ill-suited for the early development of all the young, highly regarded prospects?
Looking at what happened in Columbus I would not be so keen on bringing him back.
Other:
-In the NBA and NFL, there are always a bevy of young coach in waiting prospects (e.g. Brandon Staley, Robert Salah); do you get the sense the NHL tends to churn more in terms of older coaches and younger guys are less bandied about in terms of up and coming coaches?
Hockey is different because you tend to have fewer assistant coaches and you are trying to develop people with all sorts of diverse backgrounds. In NFL or NBA there are different schemes, but generally it is similar development patterns. Hockey in different countries is viewed differently.
Greg on Brooks: When his piece on Drury came out this w/e (re. what will determine DQ's fate--exit interviews), praising his hockey intelligence and steely will and not a guy who will suck up to Dolan, etc., I thought, hmm, Brooks positioning himself to become Drury's go to media guy?
Victor on vets and Quinn:
Quote:
I think the bigger issue is that they don't respect him and choose to ignore him, and their insistence on playing teir way did not manifest itself in wins, especially against good teams. and they got away with it, which is a bad look for Quinn.
I've seen this often here, maybe you, Victor? lol. But it has developed into a bit of a meme. My question: what is the evidence for it, any of it? It's not that I don't accept it as possible or likely, I just have no basis for validating it. Maybe I've missed stuff on BSB or elsewhere.
But I just don't see him as right for this team at this time. As Victor said, it might be different if they were a team that was capable of competing but needed a kick in the ass to get close.
I just hope to God that reading Patrick Roy's name is some kind of inside joke. Keep that lunatic away from the team.
that the vets don't respect Quinn. If that were the case, there'd be no hiding it and it would have progressively gotten worse throughout the year and he would have been fired.
I also don't buy the narrative that the team played significantly better when he was out due to Covid. It was a 4 game stretch that included PHI and BUFF.
OTOH, Torts had the youngest team in the league last season and his team looked a helluva lot better in the bubble than the Rangers did. I’m not a Torts fan, but he coached young teams the entire time in Columbus to relative success and developed some young players with the Rangers. This situation, however, is even more extreme in terms of youth.
Greg on Brooks: When his piece on Drury came out this w/e (re. what will determine DQ's fate--exit interviews), praising his hockey intelligence and steely will and not a guy who will suck up to Dolan, etc., I thought, hmm, Brooks positioning himself to become Drury's go to media guy?
Victor on vets and Quinn:
Quote:
I think the bigger issue is that they don't respect him and choose to ignore him, and their insistence on playing teir way did not manifest itself in wins, especially against good teams. and they got away with it, which is a bad look for Quinn.
I've seen this often here, maybe you, Victor? lol. But it has developed into a bit of a meme. My question: what is the evidence for it, any of it? It's not that I don't accept it as possible or likely, I just have no basis for validating it. Maybe I've missed stuff on BSB or elsewhere.
Brooks wrote a column on it (attached).
"But more consequential than that, it has also been clear that the high-end players have had little if any interest in changing their approach in order to accommodate the coach. It is their way, their increasingly obstinate way, in which there has been no quarter given by either side."
would be interesting for the Rangers is Claude Julien.
he's in the Vigneault mold of coaches and I hated his handling of the young players (does any fan not hate the head coaches handling of young players?) but he has a ring, and a long track record of success. Very well respected and regarded around the league.
if the Rangers feel they are contenders I wonder if he gets an interview. Health issues may be another negative for him.
would be interesting for the Rangers is Claude Julien.
he's in the Vigneault mold of coaches and I hated his handling of the young players (does any fan not hate the head coaches handling of young players?) but he has a ring, and a long track record of success. Very well respected and regarded around the league.
if the Rangers feel they are contenders I wonder if he gets an interview. Health issues may be another negative for him.
that's assuming Quinn is in fact not retained, which sounds like he will be.
was a veteran team that got older. If you want to give him credit for developing McDonough, okay. Staal, okay.
I don't particularly recall anyone playing above their career averages under Torts. For all their "grit", they couldn't score for shit even after that disastrous St. Louis deal.
RE: At a minimum, the Rangers have a few big issues
namely 1) no grit, 2) slow development of young players including many not seeing sensible ice time, 3) unable to key fix positional deficiencies, 4) what's the plan to turn their collection of talent into a cohesive, comprehensive pro hockey club, 5) it sure seems the veterans do not respect Quinn.
The bigger issue is the pressure from an owner who knows jack. I am not a big Quinn fan, but assume he has no long-term future with NYR no matter what as the young guys are still going to need time to develop.
Panarin would have had over 100 pts in a full season, despite missing two weeks. Same for Zibby. Buchnevich is quickly becoming one of the better wingers in the league and would have approached 40 goals and 100 pts. Adam Fox was among the league leaders in points from a Dman. Strome played well.
Sure. Kreider had a disappointing season and Trouba was merely okay until he went down. I wouldn't call that an indictment of the veterans or that Quinn has lost the respect of the vets, which is what I was referring to. There's absolutely no indication of that.
The issues with this team were that they need to improve the bottom 6 - many of which don't belong on an NHL roster. The team was also incredibly young and inconsistent. Which is to be expected. Many games were simply feast or famine. The #1 center got off to a poor start in a shortened season, the #1 goalie missed significant time and dmen were very small and young (particularly when Trouba went down) and they lacked someone who can win faceoffs.
I really don't see them bringing Tortorella back, especially at his age. Just doesn't seem to be a fit with a very young, skill-oriented roster.
I couldn't agree more. Brooks loves to stir the pot and pontificates as if he somehow influences the decisions made at the highest levels of the organization.
Brooks statement that the summer is about the "next step" is rather obvious and that would still be the case whether Quinn is behind the bench or not. What I don't agree with is his assessment that it's not "too soon" contending for the Cup. To discount an inexperienced and youthful roster, the shortened 2021 season, the need to tweak the roster and the teams we all know to be better, should not be discounted.
saying Torts is unlikely to come back, you're forgetting one thing - Dolan absolutely LOVES Torts, and Dolan is the captain of this ship of fools.
True, but the way things ended the last time wasn't pretty. I mean he was canned after three consecutive playoff appearances. He may have a fan in Dolan, but I don't know if he has a fan in Sather.
Guy is a hothead and total control freak. He'll want final call on all personnel decisions and then take his ball and go home when he's overruled. He couldn't even make it work with Joe Sakic.
Chris Drury is pretty popular. Not sure what he’s going to do with his front office, but there’s a lot of interest in working for him, and, by extension, the Rangers.
Second, about Eichel -
Quote:
The obvious suitor is the Rangers, who made a legit pitch one year ago. If they want to do it, they definitely can. They weren’t willing to do a first-rounder last fall — it was No. 1 overall — but unless they win the lottery back-to-back, that’ll be an option this time around. No GM will be more comfortable with Eichel’s representatives, Peter Fish and Peter Donatelli, than Chris Drury, who was their client when he played.
is pretty scary on Eichel. Depends what the price is to me. If he can make a full recovery he fills a glaring need. 31 Thoughts got into some MMA fighters who have had the procedure he would like and it did sound encouraging. No real data on the long term ramifications of an artificial disc though
I'm a big no on Torts too, I think he's a very good coach but there always seems to be a star player that wants out - at least post TB. We can't risk that.
I'd prefer Gallant or Boudreau. I know I'm in the minority on the second one lol.
in favor of giving the job to Kris Knoblauch. Guy has won everywhere he's been. Team seemed to really respond to his presence when he took over for Quinn's COVID.
yup. I agree on all points.
It's interesting on DQ alienation of the vets: I posited that early in the season during Zib's drought, but it was circumstantial, more body language and what was not said. Then came DQ's covid and Zib caught fire. The whole Td'A handling. Strome comes out this morning and says this:
Quote:
namely 1) no grit, 2) slow development of young players including many not seeing sensible ice time, 3) unable to key fix positional deficiencies, 4) what's the plan to turn their collection of talent into a cohesive, comprehensive pro hockey club, 5) it sure seems the veterans do not respect Quinn. To claim Quinn is safe would run counter to logic, especially after firing the GM and President.
I'd quibble a bit by saying, 1/not enough grit across the board; 2/not enough TOI for the kids, for sure, but development has been there, maybe the compromise is to say DQ wasn't putting them in position to fail enough. Roster construction is certainly an issue, been saying that for a year.
It's interesting on DQ alienation of the vets: I posited that early in the season during Zib's drought, but it was circumstantial, more body language and what was not said. Then came DQ's covid and Zib caught fire. The whole Td'A handling. Strome comes out this morning and says this:
Quote:
"It was certainly bizarre. I think we dealt with a lot of things, some things that the media might not even know about. There's a lot of internal things going on all the time...
Palace intrigue. The other anomaly in my mind is that after JD came on board, I didn't see anything that suggested he was leaving his mark, his influence, not later, not sooner.
Interesting point on JDs lack of imprint. Can't say I disagree.
-do you buy into the notion that players, especially the skill guys like Panerin, are frustrated with DQ because of his insistence on simple/direct north/south hockey?
-do I have the correct impression about DQ that he is uncommonly prone to juggle lines and this creates a lack of chemistry and fewer scoring chances when high end skill guys are matched with 4th line types?
Re: Roy and Gallant:
-it seems both have bad reputations for being volatile, self-serving and difficult; are these reputations legit?
Re: Torterella:
-Does anyone not think that his typical environment is ill-suited for the early development of all the young, highly regarded prospects?
Other:
-In the NBA and NFL, there are always a bevy of young coach in waiting prospects (e.g. Brandon Staley, Robert Salah); do you get the sense the NHL tends to churn more in terms of older coaches and younger guys are less bandied about in terms of up and coming coaches?
I am not disagreeing nor am I an in favor of Torts, but would you say that Torts approach is different than Thibs?
I really don't see them bringing Tortorella back, especially at his age. Just doesn't seem to be a fit with a very young, skill-oriented roster.
[quote] Re: Quinn:
-do you buy into the notion that players, especially the skill guys like Panerin, are frustrated with DQ because of his insistence on simple/direct north/south hockey?
I think the bigger issue is that they don't respect him and choose to ignore him, and their insistence on playing teir way did not manifest itself in wins, especially against good teams. and they got away with it, which is a bad look for Quinn.
-do you buy into the notion that players, especially the skill guys like Panerin, are frustrated with DQ because of his insistence on simple/direct north/south hockey?
-do I have the correct impression about DQ that he is uncommonly prone to juggle lines and this creates a lack of chemistry and fewer scoring chances when high end skill guys are matched with 4th line types?
Re: Roy and Gallant:
-it seems both have bad reputations for being volatile, self-serving and difficult; are these reputations legit?
I think that there was a reason Vegas decided to get rid of Gallant despite the team's success. Peter Laviolette is another coach that has tended to get fired despite his teams producing on the ice.
Re: Torterella:
-Does anyone not think that his typical environment is ill-suited for the early development of all the young, highly regarded prospects?
Looking at what happened in Columbus I would not be so keen on bringing him back.
Other:
-In the NBA and NFL, there are always a bevy of young coach in waiting prospects (e.g. Brandon Staley, Robert Salah); do you get the sense the NHL tends to churn more in terms of older coaches and younger guys are less bandied about in terms of up and coming coaches?
Hockey is different because you tend to have fewer assistant coaches and you are trying to develop people with all sorts of diverse backgrounds. In NFL or NBA there are different schemes, but generally it is similar development patterns. Hockey in different countries is viewed differently.
Victor on vets and Quinn:
I just hope to God that reading Patrick Roy's name is some kind of inside joke. Keep that lunatic away from the team.
No, give me Gallant
I just hope to God that reading Patrick Roy's name is some kind of inside joke. Keep that lunatic away from the team.
His name came up because he's looking to get back into coaching and because he and Drury were teammates in Colorado
I also don't buy the narrative that the team played significantly better when he was out due to Covid. It was a 4 game stretch that included PHI and BUFF.
No, give me Gallant
Torts coached Panarin too, lol
Highly doubt it. They want a guy who can win now. Knoblauch is a developmental coach. He should stick in Hartford for now.
No, give me Gallant
OTOH, Torts had the youngest team in the league last season and his team looked a helluva lot better in the bubble than the Rangers did. I’m not a Torts fan, but he coached young teams the entire time in Columbus to relative success and developed some young players with the Rangers. This situation, however, is even more extreme in terms of youth.
Victor on vets and Quinn:
Quote:
I think the bigger issue is that they don't respect him and choose to ignore him, and their insistence on playing teir way did not manifest itself in wins, especially against good teams. and they got away with it, which is a bad look for Quinn.
I've seen this often here, maybe you, Victor? lol. But it has developed into a bit of a meme. My question: what is the evidence for it, any of it? It's not that I don't accept it as possible or likely, I just have no basis for validating it. Maybe I've missed stuff on BSB or elsewhere.
Brooks wrote a column on it (attached).
"But more consequential than that, it has also been clear that the high-end players have had little if any interest in changing their approach in order to accommodate the coach. It is their way, their increasingly obstinate way, in which there has been no quarter given by either side."
I don't just make shit up. If not "disrespect", definitely seem like they're tuning him out.
Rangers must resolve disconnect between David Quinn and top forwards - ( New Window )
he's in the Vigneault mold of coaches and I hated his handling of the young players (does any fan not hate the head coaches handling of young players?) but he has a ring, and a long track record of success. Very well respected and regarded around the league.
if the Rangers feel they are contenders I wonder if he gets an interview. Health issues may be another negative for him.
he's in the Vigneault mold of coaches and I hated his handling of the young players (does any fan not hate the head coaches handling of young players?) but he has a ring, and a long track record of success. Very well respected and regarded around the league.
if the Rangers feel they are contenders I wonder if he gets an interview. Health issues may be another negative for him.
that's assuming Quinn is in fact not retained, which sounds like he will be.
I don't particularly recall anyone playing above their career averages under Torts. For all their "grit", they couldn't score for shit even after that disastrous St. Louis deal.
The bigger issue is the pressure from an owner who knows jack. I am not a big Quinn fan, but assume he has no long-term future with NYR no matter what as the young guys are still going to need time to develop.
Sure. Kreider had a disappointing season and Trouba was merely okay until he went down. I wouldn't call that an indictment of the veterans or that Quinn has lost the respect of the vets, which is what I was referring to. There's absolutely no indication of that.
The issues with this team were that they need to improve the bottom 6 - many of which don't belong on an NHL roster. The team was also incredibly young and inconsistent. Which is to be expected. Many games were simply feast or famine. The #1 center got off to a poor start in a shortened season, the #1 goalie missed significant time and dmen were very small and young (particularly when Trouba went down) and they lacked someone who can win faceoffs.
These are growing pains of a young team.
I really don't see them bringing Tortorella back, especially at his age. Just doesn't seem to be a fit with a very young, skill-oriented roster.
I couldn't agree more. Brooks loves to stir the pot and pontificates as if he somehow influences the decisions made at the highest levels of the organization.
Brooks statement that the summer is about the "next step" is rather obvious and that would still be the case whether Quinn is behind the bench or not. What I don't agree with is his assessment that it's not "too soon" contending for the Cup. To discount an inexperienced and youthful roster, the shortened 2021 season, the need to tweak the roster and the teams we all know to be better, should not be discounted.
@MollieeWalkerr
·
20m
#NYR
announce they’ve agreed to a three-year contract with Ryan Lindgren
True, but the way things ended the last time wasn't pretty. I mean he was canned after three consecutive playoff appearances. He may have a fan in Dolan, but I don't know if he has a fan in Sather.
Quote:
Look what happened to PLD, Max Domi, Laine...
No, give me Gallant
Torts coached Panarin too, lol
Yeah, he apparently loves Panarin
Been there, done that with Torts, no thanks to a reunion.
By contrast, no news is good news...for Quinn. I mean if Drury doesn't make any sort of statement, we can assume the status quo.
Second, about Eichel -
Why not? I can understand being hesistant depending on the cost, but "absolutely no"?
I'd prefer Gallant or Boudreau. I know I'm in the minority on the second one lol.
Eichel he says he expects the neck will heel fine and he'll be ready for 2021-2022.
Though Eichel's comments in the press the past few days aren't doing him any favors helping him get himself traded.
Quote:
No thank you
Why not? I can understand being hesistant depending on the cost, but "absolutely no"?
10M per + coming off neck surgery + he complains a lot + the cost will be steep