Who is better? Washington, Dallas, Philadelphia?

If they get decent QB play, they will be in the mix for the division. They have decent coaching and a really good defense.

plays well. Dallas is one to watch for now that Dak is back.

I think Dallas can score, that's undeniable, but it remains to be seen how they come together as a collective team.

People love Washington, and Fitz is better than anything they've trotted our at QB in a while...but I'm not buying it. They have some upgrades but their defensive front didn't do a whole lot to stop the Giants from sweeping them the last 2 seasons.

The Eagles I think are more of an unknown than a doormat. Who knows what kind of success a brand new staff will have. I like Hurts a bit more than some, but I'd be shocked if they finish over .500

Overall, you just get the feeling the Giants should be able to beat any of them. An underrated talking about the 2020 NYG is they finished 4-2 in the division (probably should have been 5-1), and were able to punch all 4 NFC east teams in the mouth throughout the year. I don't care if it was a "weak year" for the division, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THEY WERE ABLE TO DO THAT? I like our chances.

I think their roster is good enough to salvage 1 or 2 of Fitpatrick's inevitable bad days, and on his good days I think theyre going to be really tough.

.

Fitzpatrick just needs to not screw things up, but he'll limit how far they go if they make the postseason.

Dallas can put points on the board, but their D is horrid and their coaching is poor. I also think the OL will be an issue for them. They are getting old.

Philly - unless Hurts surprises, that team is going nowhere. They're old on both lines.

simply because I agree with you on the Eagles.

I don't have much respect for McCarthy (not that it matters) and while they drafted heavy on D those kids are still rookies so i'd rule out Dallas.

Like a few others here have pointed out, Washington has some scary talent. The D could be really good and when Fitz is playing well and not turning it over he can get a team in the end zone. They have my vote.

it's the Cowboys who have an explosive offense if Dak is 100%.

Washington has the best roster "other than QB" which is pretty much the biggest caveat which exists in the NFL. People can get excited about Fitzpatrick if they like, I don't buy into him as a full-time starter. Can you do worse? Sure. He's similar to a solid bench player in MLB. He can lull you into thinking he's deserving of a starting job by playing well in spot duty. Once he's in there every week you realize why he always reverts back to a backup.

I don't think Philly is anything great but they do tend to surprise.

There offensive line should be improved this year. They will also get back Brandon Brooks, Kelce will back, Lane Johnson is still there. Jordan Maitalla seems to be a good tackle and Isaac Semulao can play guard. Their line was decimated last year. We don't know really how Jalen Hurts will be this year, so I can see then surprising some people. But, I do think the Eagles defense is not very good, especially in the back 7.

I think Washington with good QB play is the best team in the division talent wise, but Fitz?

I think Dallas stinks, even when they get Dak back. I think there defense is really bad and no draft pick from this year is going to change that,.

I think the division is there for the taking (not really a revelation).

In comment 15259533 bLiTz 2k said:

Quote:

I think Dallas can score, that's undeniable, but it remains to be seen how they come together as a collective team. People love Washington, and Fitz is better than anything they've trotted our at QB in a while...but I'm not buying it. They have some upgrades but their defensive front didn't do a whole lot to stop the Giants from sweeping them the last 2 seasons. The Eagles I think are more of an unknown than a doormat. Who knows what kind of success a brand new staff will have. I like Hurts a bit more than some, but I'd be shocked if they finish over .500 Overall, you just get the feeling the Giants should be able to beat any of them. An underrated talking about the 2020 NYG is they finished 4-2 in the division (probably should have been 5-1), and were able to punch all 4 NFC east teams in the mouth throughout the year. I don't care if it was a "weak year" for the division, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THEY WERE ABLE TO DO THAT? I like our chances.

I think we might have had a chance at 6-0 if the defense didn't fold on the last drive in the first Dallas game and if Engram catches that ball in the first Philly game.

I don't know why everyone seems to forget this. I'd say the Copwboys are the best team in the division, with the WF behind them, despite the WFT having a mess at the QB position.

WFT is the most complete team IMO, we're just lucky they haven't found the answer at the QB position. That Front 7 is just nasty also.

Wild card in all of this of course is Hurts. Need to hope he doesn't make the leap.

.

In comment 15259545 Bear vs Shark said:

Quote:

I don't know why everyone seems to forget this. I'd say the Copwboys are the best team in the division, with the WF behind them, despite the WFT having a mess at the QB position. WFT is the most complete team IMO, we're just lucky they haven't found the answer at the QB position. That Front 7 is just nasty also. Wild card in all of this of course is Hurts. Need to hope he doesn't make the leap.

What was their record prior to Dak’s injury ?

but i think we're starting to witness a paradigm shift in the division from Philly/ Dallas to DC/NY.

Eagles probably have longest climb....but can surprise.

Dallas is probably favorite due to media and very strong offense....that defense will be their downfall.

WFT and Gaints have best defenses and which one can solve offense woes the best....should win division

you can't sleep on Washington.

I have my doubts about Philly but they do have some talented players and It would be presumptuous to sleep on them.

You may not like the Dallas head coach or Qb, but all both of them have ever done is win a lot of games in the regular season and Dallas has a very high powered offense built for Dak Prescott.

It's going to be a hard fought battle in the NFCE. The good news is that the Giants are better too. I think we can beat the other teams in the NFCE.

I'm really looking forward to next season. I truly believe we have the best coaching staff in the NFCE, the best backfield, the best field director in Martinez, and the best DLine. I think that our offense is going to make some noise. We purchased 10-14 more points a game with Rudolph and Golloday. We purchased field position with Toney and some of the ST players we added. If they stay healthy, the Giants are going to be a very well-balanced good team.

In my opinion Jones is going to become a little more fiery -- he has it in him.

They finally got a good head coach in Rivera and a crapload of talent. If Snyder doesn't meddle too much (obviously a gigantic 'if'), I think Washington could be a force for years to come unfortunately.

Their defense can win them games by itself.

In comment 15259535 Sean said:

Quote:

.

Seems people have been doing that for about 10 years now.

but in two games last year with Davonte Freeman, Wayne Gallman and Alfred Morris we averaged 150 rushing ypg and our embattled offensive line allowed 5 sacks in 53 pass attempts.

McLaurin is a nice receiver but there is nothing else about their skill players that sticks out. Their offensive line is nothing to write how about and although Fitzpatrick can get hot, he will also lose some games for them.

Before Dak went out, the Dallas offense was on the same pace as the '99 Rams. I thought they had a great defensive draft. I think they are the favorites.

But QB and their OL are question marks. Dallas as usual has the marquis players, but their weakness is McCarthy. If DJ improves, we can win the division.

their offense with Prescott is next level, and the new DC will improve the defense. I like their chances more than Washington.

Fitz can be an exciting player, but he puts his team at a disadvantage as much as he saves them.

of the 3. They have the best Coach and Denfensive front. Their QB play will determine how well they do ultimately.

The one thing all 3 have in common is they dont have good enough secondaries.

Putting aside the unknown injury factor that will play its part, the division should be up for grabs this season.

Maybe give Dallas a slight edge since they're probably the only one of the four that has proven they can light up the scoreboard with their starting QB. Small maybe as they have their issues as well on Defense and unreliable OL.

Would anyone be surprised if all 4 teams wind up generally splitting their divisional games, and the winning team has an 8-9 or 9-8 record?

Coin flip between WFT & Dallas. Neither scares me however.

washington, Dallas and then Philly.

Washington has the edge over Dallas in coaching as well as overall team. Their defense can make a difference.

Dallas has an edge at quarterback, but overall they have problems on defense until proven otherwise.

Philly is definitely the great unknown. They can certainly surprise, but hurts and their quarterback is questionable.

but their coaching is so poor (Especially the head coach) I don't think they're good enough to overcome that.

Washington is OK. I could see their D taking a step back and let's be honest, they have no QB. Fitz isn't an answer any longer.

I think we have the highest ceiling in the division right now but it's all up to Jones.

In comment 15259561 Capt. Don said:

Quote:

but in two games last year with Davonte Freeman, Wayne Gallman and Alfred Morris we averaged 150 rushing ypg and our embattled offensive line allowed 5 sacks in 53 pass attempts. McLaurin is a nice receiver but there is nothing else about their skill players that sticks out. Their offensive line is nothing to write how about and although Fitzpatrick can get hot, he will also lose some games for them. Before Dak went out, the Dallas offense was on the same pace as the '99 Rams. I thought they had a great defensive draft. I think they are the favorites.

Antonio Gibson is a very good RB - can catch passes and run between the tackles. And Logan Thomas is an above average receiving TE.

"none of the above"
Reason? Philly has Hurts and WFT has Fitz. If you don't have a QB you have nothin. (to be fair, their fans will say the same thing about the Giants).
Dallas couldn't stop me and 11 guys off the street on defense.
And their OL is a lot more porous, lets see how Dak does when he can't take a coffee break every pass play.

I’m concerned about the addition of Dan Quinn as DC. They have also loaded up at LB. Quinn may not have been a “great” head coach, but he was a hell of a DC with Seattle. Even with a mediocre to slightly below mediocre defense Dallas will be tough to beat if they stay healthy offensively.

The NFL East is no longer the least
Cowboys must be considered better than the Giants until the Giants show that they can beat Cowboys with DAK

WFT beat the Steelers and gave the Buc's a very tough game. I would not underestimate Taylor Heinicke, he looked very good against the Bucs. He can throw the ball. They have to be considered the best team until the games begin.

If the Giant offensive line is competent they can win the division if not if could be another long season.

Their defense is still suspect, but they can score.

Philadelphia is rebuilding, and Hurts is an unknown.

Washington has a very good defense and some weapons on offense, but Fitzpatrick is basically a backup. He's 39 IIR, and has zero mobility. They have nothing behind him.

If Jones plays well, and we stay healthy, we can win the division.

In comment 15259569 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

Would anyone be surprised if all 4 teams wind up generally splitting their divisional games, and the winning team has an 8-9 or 9-8 record?

I agree with this. I think the division winner will be the team that performs best outside of the division.

In comment 15259602 GiantsLaw said:

Quote:

In comment 15259569 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: Would anyone be surprised if all 4 teams wind up generally splitting their divisional games, and the winning team has an 8-9 or 9-8 record? I agree with this. I think the division winner will be the team that performs best outside of the division.

+2. We’ll hear how horrible the NFC East is if that happens but the reality is at least three of the teams in the division have solid teams and it will be survival of the fittest.

In comment 15259540 Chris684 said:

Quote:

Washington has the best roster "other than QB" which is pretty much the biggest caveat which exists in the NFL. People can get excited about Fitzpatrick if they like, I don't buy into him as a full-time starter. Can you do worse? Sure. He's similar to a solid bench player in MLB. He can lull you into thinking he's deserving of a starting job by playing well in spot duty. Once he's in there every week you realize why he always reverts back to a backup. I don't think Philly is anything great but they do tend to surprise.

The thing that's scary is that while Fitzpatrick isn't a franchise QB, he's VASTLY superior to Haskins and the shell of Alex Smith.

Dallas has the best offense in the division and probably the worst Defense. If Dak stays healthy they will be #2 in the division. I say #2 because I think their coaching staff as a whole will find ways to mess things up.

Washington has the Best defense in the division but the worst Offense. The defense and coaching will keep them in many games but the offense is going to find ways to mess things up. #3 in the division.

Philly has the most unknowns in the division. Decent players spread out around the roster but with a rookie coach and change in philosophy I just don't see them putting things together long enough to get it done. #4 in the Division this year. I can see them gelling in years to come and could become the hardest to deal with.

The Giants have the biggest leg up in my mind for the division. We are the most well rounded team in the division (O, D & ST). O line seems to be heading in the decent category. Defensive secondary looks to be the best in the division, maybe even the league if they stay healthy and gel. Our coach looks to be ensuring he covers every area with the staff he is putting together. Most surprising to me is how eager people seem to want to work with and for Joe.

It is going to be a fun season to watch. How long has it been since you could say that?

.

Like people want to overhype the Cowbpyd yet again. Are we tired of this yet? Yes, Dak is back, but he and Zeke were not without flaws last year while both played Dak, for example, had 9 turnovers in four games. Zeke was fumbling. Their OL, specifically Tyron Smith, cannot stay healthy. It isn't 2016 anymore. Z. Martin is still fantastic, but he's the only reliable one left who's considering great.

Their defense? Quinn's defense stunk in Atlanta. Not only that, when Raheem Morris took over playcalling, it improved. They added a few oft-injured guys from their defense and Micah Parsons. Who is playing. Corner for them? Who is their best pass rushers? Jaylon Smith has gotten worse. That team is more questionable than either NY or WSH, and they have worse coaches.

their defense likely gets a little better by default. They will likely want to establish the run again and shorten games, and obviously have the firepower to score if Dak is 100%.

Eagles and Washington don't have the QB's (yet).

Excuse the misspellings.

People forget that prior to Dak injury that offense was setting the league on fire.

Question will be how much did they improve defense?

In comment 15259624 Toth029 said:

Quote:

Like people want to overhype the Cowbpyd yet again. Are we tired of this yet? Yes, Dak is back, but he and Zeke were not without flaws last year while both played Dak, for example, had 9 turnovers in four games. Zeke was fumbling. Their OL, specifically Tyron Smith, cannot stay healthy. It isn't 2016 anymore. Z. Martin is still fantastic, but he's the only reliable one left who's considering great. Their defense? Quinn's defense stunk in Atlanta. Not only that, when Raheem Morris took over playcalling, it improved. They added a few oft-injured guys from their defense and Micah Parsons. Who is playing. Corner for them? Who is their best pass rushers? Jaylon Smith has gotten worse. That team is more questionable than either NY or WSH, and they have worse coaches.

And Zack Martin isn't reliable anymore either. He missed 6 games last season and is on the wrong side of 30 now.

so it's them. Their D is putrid, but I think Quinn will improve it enough to be acceptable. And I expect Parsons to have instant impact.

WFT is the most talented team - top to bottom - in the NFCE. And they have pretty good depth. But Fitztragic will keep the other team in most games and will be their undoing if he's the season long starter.

Now, if they somehow get in the Rodgers Sweepstakes and pull that off, the NFCE is over.

Philly is a TBD team because of Hurts. But they feel like the most incomplete team...

McCarthy and Siri are suspect IMO.

I think coaching means a lot in the NFL. Rivera is solid so I think WFT will be the best of them.

Washington will be as good as their offense allows them to be.

Dallas will be as good as their defense allows them to be.

In comment 15259581 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 15259561 Capt. Don said: Quote: but in two games last year with Davonte Freeman, Wayne Gallman and Alfred Morris we averaged 150 rushing ypg and our embattled offensive line allowed 5 sacks in 53 pass attempts. McLaurin is a nice receiver but there is nothing else about their skill players that sticks out. Their offensive line is nothing to write how about and although Fitzpatrick can get hot, he will also lose some games for them. Before Dak went out, the Dallas offense was on the same pace as the '99 Rams. I thought they had a great defensive draft. I think they are the favorites. Antonio Gibson is a very good RB - can catch passes and run between the tackles. And Logan Thomas is an above average receiving TE.

We have different definitions of very good. I would put Gibson in the Wayne Gallman category. Average. Like I said, "nothing that sticks out." Logan Thomas too.

His 11 rushing TDs as a rookie are more than Gallman has in 4 seasons despite Gallman with more than twice as many career carries. And Gibson is a much better receiver.

Gibson also had 1042 total yds last year. That's 25% more than Gallman's best ever season.

i think people don't realize how good fitz has been the last couple years. he is an enormous upgrade over what they previously had

that defense is also very young. if they take a step forward and young becomes the player everyone thinks he will, they can be really, really tough

i think dallas is mediocre. bad defense. bad head coach. and an aging offensive line.

i think philly is garbage. i don't think their new head coach has a clue and that is not something to be underestimated.

But really, it is a crapshoot. Th division is there for the taking. No clear cut favorites. If you asked this of their fan bases, they could very easily be most concerned about us. We are the most improved by a decent margin.

not even close, actually.

The NFL is a war of attrition, and last year, they had as bad a year injury wise as I can remember them having.

They are the primary competition.

Washington in about 8 seasons. I think Dallas is going to be the team we need to get past to win the division this year

In 2019 with Marinelli as DC Dallas gave up 20.1 points a game. Last year Washington with the best defense in the division gave up 20.6.

Dallas just needed a different DC and the defense will improve, even with the same players. It was a scheme disaster that made the Dallas defense terrible last year. It wasn’t because they had no players on defense.

If the Dallas defense improves to giving up 21 points a game with their offense, Dallas will be the favorites for the division and one of the NFCs contenders for the SB.

Washington is next because of their coaching. Rivera and Del Rio have put together one of the best defenses in the NFL. They have good enough weapons on offense to make them a team to be reckoned with. The question is what level of QB play will they get. That's the million dollar question.

Philadelphia has the same question at QB and should be considered last in the division.

The NFL is a QB driven league. If you don't have one, it's tough to compete.

There are some that question Daniel Jones being the answer for NY. This is why NY isn't rated higher.

The division could be simplified to Dan Quinn and the three other QBs in the division.

So they're due to be worse. Subtraction by addition.

WFT has a solid roster with some impact players on defense and a good coach. Their issue is at QB, Fitz will lose them games on his own and is also aging.

Dallas has a ton of talent on offense but a defense that will likely not be very good. For their coach, I know he's won a lot of games and a SB, but when you look at the talent he had in Green Bay he underachieved. His system is also old and antiquated.

Philly is rebuilding. They may not want to admit it, but they are. Holes on both sides of the ball, a QB thats questionable and a new HC.

it is kind of strange. Washington seems to play better against every other team in the league except the Giants

It is a mistake to take any of these teams lightly. There will be no walkovers. They don't like us and we don't like them. All the games will be hard fought.

IMO, it is equally within the realm of possibility that we go 6-0 as going 0-6 against them. For me, going 6-0 is almost a championship in itself.

We've improved and they've improved. Injuries are never predictable. How we deal with them and how they affect our matchups could be controlling.

The Giants have broken our hearts before. Courage.

In comment 15259672 fanatic II said:

Quote:

Dallas just needed a different DC and the defense will improve, even with the same players. It was a scheme disaster that made the Dallas defense terrible last year. It wasn’t because they had no players on defense.

Thats why they drafted all defense this year? Sure it was all scheme...

They are going in the right direction.

They are building a monster defense.

And they have a very fine Head Coach.

Oh, and they made the play-offs last season which gives them a confidence-boost / expectation going into 2021.

And, yes, they are better than the Giants until we prove we can overtake them and win the Division.

Dallas reminds me of the Giants prior to the Judge era. They seem to find ways to lose games and injuries keep hurting them.

It seems people have forgotten Dan Quinn's competence level.

That dallas offense was on fire early last year, it's a glimpse of what they're capable of.

In comment 15259687 bLiTz 2k said:

Quote:

In comment 15259672 fanatic II said: Quote: Dallas just needed a different DC and the defense will improve, even with the same players. It was a scheme disaster that made the Dallas defense terrible last year. It wasn’t because they had no players on defense. Thats why they drafted all defense this year? Sure it was all scheme...

Dallas is bringing back all 11 starters on offense. Can't say the about the defense. Dallas lost three starters on defense.

Plus Dan Quinn had a lot of input into the draft. The selection of Wright in the 3rd round on a player who most had rated very low was all Quinn. Dallas acquiesced to Quinn for this draft. Dallas also brought in free agents that Quinn liked for his scheme. It's up to him to sink or swim with his scheme and players.

The reason I showed the 2019 results under Marinelli was to show the stark contrast to Nolan in 2020. It was all about scheme with basically the same players.

"We purchased 10-14 more points a game with Rudolph and Golloday."

This is a gem.

since his injury. In the past, he would create with his legs and that compensated some for his accuracy issues.

Speaking of accuracy issues, Hurts did not appear at all accurate last year and sometimes second seasons are tough for QB's once teams study how to defend you.

As for WFT.....Fitz is amazing, but we always seem to beat him no matter what team he plays for.

This division is ours if we can get solid OL play and stay somewhat injury-free.

In comment 15259703 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

It seems people have forgotten Dan Quinn's competence level. That dallas offense was on fire early last year, it's a glimpse of what they're capable of.

dallas scored garbage time points. they fell behind by a ton in most games and then made things interesting

Dak is the most talented AND experienced QB in the East and that can take a team, but McCarthy is going to be a hinderance. Washington has the talent EXCEPT at QB and a good Headcoach, so I think we lose at least one game to them this year. Philly is the wildcard. They always seem to overachieve but a new HC and though Sirianni is an unknown, Roseman seems to know what he is doing, at least when it comes to beating the Giants. I FEEL like we are in the pole position in the East but I think if Dak is healthy, Zeke has his head on and Quinn can establish a defense worthy of his rep, they can overcome any McCarthy ineptitude and then they have to be the favorite.

is your purpose on every thread to kill the party?

They’ve all got major flaws and all of them were bad last year. Washington had to be given the division. I think Philly is probably the weakest on paper. Dallas’ D is the worst unit in the division. First time I can remember not having a decent feel for the relative strength of the teams in the NFCE.

In comment 15259721 Go Terps said:

Quote:

"We purchased 10-14 more points a game with Rudolph and Golloday." This is a gem.

Fan site brother. I am hoping for another touchdown based everything that happened in the offseason, the return of Barkley and the expected improvement from Daniel Jones. If our D is as good as I believe, we will compete. If point to the OL, I will point to expected growth on the OL to compensate for the loss of Zeitler. I expect the OL to perform as well as they did in the last 8 games, perhaps a tiny bit better.

It isn't necessary to shit on everyone's hopes after a nice FA and draft. I respect your right to do it. Just letting you know, you could choose something else.

I can guess your response, you have not seen anything to give you confidence that Jones will improve. I have, we can agree to disagree.

A 10-14 PPG increase would place then at 27-31 PPG. For context Green Bay led the league last year with just under 32 PPG.

I don't know if there are two non-QB players in NFL history that have been worth 10-14 points per game. It's amazing that we landed two of them in the same off-season. It's also amazing that one of them is an in-line TE.

Even for a fan site that claim is a doozy.

In comment 15259721 Go Terps said:

Quote:

"We purchased 10-14 more points a game with Rudolph and Golloday." This is a gem.

10-14 points doesn’t seem that far off honestly. It doesn’t mean Golladay and Rudolph are necessarily scoring the 10-14 more points a game, it’s the way they open up the offense.

Double teams on Golladay mean Shepard, Toney, Engram, Slayton, etc. are open more often. Not to mention the impact on the running game by forcing teams to account for some legitimate receiving weapons and not stack the box every time Barkley is in the game.

Plax had the same impact on our team as I believe Golladay will. Remember how fast our offense tanked (including the running game) when he shot himself in 2008?

Dallas +135 O/U 9
Washington +200 O/U 8
Giants +400 O/U 7
Philly +500 O/U 6.5

Giants to make playoffs:

No -300
Yes +225

Dallas and Washington definitely feel a step ahead.

In comment 15259662 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

not even close, actually.

Gallman: 147 carries, 682 yards, 4.6 ypc 6 TDs
Gibson: 170 carries, 795 yards, 4.7 ypc 11 TDs

Not even close?

Of his 11 TDs only 2 came outside of 15 yards. So he got a bunch of goal line carries. He is NOT very good.


And before you say something about stats, yes I did watch both and neither of them are "very good." Keep in mind that Gibson ran behind a FAR more consistent offensive line and started 4 more games.

At any rate, I stick behind my original statement in that the WFT skill positions are ordinary with the exception of McLaurin.

In comment 15259633 bw in dc said:

Quote:

so it's them. Their D is putrid, but I think Quinn will improve it enough to be acceptable. And I expect Parsons to have instant impact. WFT is the most talented team - top to bottom - in the NFCE. And they have pretty good depth. But Fitztragic will keep the other team in most games and will be their undoing if he's the season long starter. Now, if they somehow get in the Rodgers Sweepstakes and pull that off, the NFCE is over. Philly is a TBD team because of Hurts. But they feel like the most incomplete team...

Agreed

in 2020 was Washington +1300, Giants +1100, Philly +150 and Dallas -121.

I'm pretty sure those odds didn't mean jackshit, but for some reason (and not too hard to figure what that is), you keep quoting the 2021 odds whenever you can.

Kajagoogoo marvels at the duration of this one-hit wonder.

In comment 15259792 Dnew15 said:

Quote:

In comment 15259633 bw in dc said: Quote: so it's them. Their D is putrid, but I think Quinn will improve it enough to be acceptable. And I expect Parsons to have instant impact. WFT is the most talented team - top to bottom - in the NFCE. And they have pretty good depth. But Fitztragic will keep the other team in most games and will be their undoing if he's the season long starter. Now, if they somehow get in the Rodgers Sweepstakes and pull that off, the NFCE is over. Philly is a TBD team because of Hurts. But they feel like the most incomplete team... Agreed

+2, good post and assessment.

they allowed 329 points in 2020. Giants allowed 357.

Call me crazy but I don't see why the Skins D should be considered any better than NYG's. LAst year they were slightly better but I think there's a lot of room for improvement from this NYG D in 2021, without even factoring in player additions.

Dallas is still the most talented team but their D isn't any good. Every team has flaws. Every team has questions. I still think the Giants have the least amount of questions other the one widely perceived big one, Jones, but I don't think he's a big question mark.

the fact the Giants have absolutely owned the WFT means something in divisional play.

They are kinda like the Eagles and Cowboys were to the Giants prior this year (and there's some wishful thinking in that comment).

Against the WFT the Giants have:
have won 5 in a row.
12 out of the last 16
22 out of the last 30

Speaking as a huge Giants fan living in the PHilly metro area...
I really think that mentally - this means something in divisional play.

we see stupid hot takes or debates like "can the Giants win the east with Daniel Jones at QB" ---uh, YES? We saw Danny friggin Kannell win 10 games. We saw Trent Dilfer win a super bowl.

Jones can have an uninspiring season and the Giants could still win 11 games in 2021. Anyone saying otherwise hasn't watched the NFL.

We want Jones to be great. We probably need Jones to be great in order to win anything of note or sustain anything of note, but teams can win despite the QB. Skins could do the same.

Each of these three teams improved in the offseason.

WFT has a better quarterback in Fitzpatrick, better weapons in Samuel and Brown and arguably the best defense in the NFL in 2021 with Jamin Davis now at ILB and William Jackson at CB. They will be the toughest division foe this year notwithstanding the Giants historical success against them. A split would be great.

The Cowboys remain among the most explosive offenses in the NFL with Dak back. Their defense will still be somewhat suspect, but the addition of Parsons, Joseph and Cox will make them better. Quinn should get this unit to be average, which will be a significant improvement. Assuming the Giants can put up points against their defense, the Giants should split with the Cowboys.

The Eagles have the widest variance in terms of projected performance. Their offense appears to be much improved now with weapons D Smith, Gainwell and K Johnson, and improvements in the OL with Dickerson likely slotted at OG and the return of OT Andre Dillard from injury. Their defense may be the worst in the division this year, though it has proven stars like Cox, Graham, Slay and now Harris, and also added five players from the 2021 draft. While it is difficult to predict because of the uncertainty of their defense, I like the Giants chances to sweep assuming solid quarterback play by Jones primarily because Sirianni appears to be below McAdoo/Shurmur calibre in leadership and communication acumen.

Unfortunately, while the Giants are vastly improved in terms of personnel and experience, just about every opponent on the Giants schedule appears to have improved as well (maybe the Saints and Raiders being the exceptions?) so coaching decision-making and effective quarterback play will be two of the key variables driving 2021 success...

In comment 15259552 gidiefor said:

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you can't sleep on Washington.

The NFC East was a division that was really hindered by injuries(Washington might be the exception as they were relatively healthy in 2020). I think the division is stronger than they showed in 2020. I'd say Washington is the favorite over Dallas at the moment and the only thing that gives me pause in saying that is Ryan Fitzpatrick, but for just one season and on a strong roster I think Fitzpatrick can get it done for them. I thought Washington had a good season last year and they had one of the stronger free agency hauls and a strong draft, that's a good roster they've put together.

No one in this division deserved the benefit of the doubt until they earn it. Dallas and Philly are perennially hyped and almost never deliver. Washington seems to be building the right way but are coming up from the bottom and don't have a franchise QB. All four teams in the division its safe to say I'll believe it when I see it.

even with Fitz being Fitz

In comment 15259790 Capt. Don said:

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In comment 15259662 UConn4523 said: Quote: not even close, actually. Gallman: 147 carries, 682 yards, 4.6 ypc 6 TDs Gibson: 170 carries, 795 yards, 4.7 ypc 11 TDs Not even close? Of his 11 TDs only 2 came outside of 15 yards. So he got a bunch of goal line carries. He is NOT very good. And before you say something about stats, yes I did watch both and neither of them are "very good." Keep in mind that Gibson ran behind a FAR more consistent offensive line and started 4 more games. At any rate, I stick behind my original statement in that the WFT skill positions are ordinary with the exception of McLaurin.

Yes, not even close. Are we looking solely at the stats are are we factoring in the games? The skins look like a completely different team when Gibson runs vs every other RB on the roster. And considering the had Dwayne Haskins, Kyle Allen, and Alex Smith behind center he faced plenty of stacked fronts.

Now I don't think he's a game changing dynamic, top 10 RB, but hes absolutely better than Wayne Gallman.

we are reminded of it often. Plenty of teams out/under perform their Vegas odds, some by several games so who cares.

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In comment 15259851 UConn4523 said:

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Are we looking solely at the stats are are we factoring in the games?

Please re-read my post. See below.

In comment 15259790 Capt. Don said:

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And before you say something about stats, yes I did watch both and neither of them are "very good."

He is a decent in between the tackles runner. Nothing more, just like Gallman. Nothing super dynamic and nothing extraordinary about his game. He is NOT "very good."

Regarding QB play, its not like the Giants passing game scared DCs from playing 8 in the box. Gallman actually had his best game against the Seahawks with Colt McCoy. So I am not sure what your point is there.

Their style and skill set are exceedingly similar. Ill say it again, neither is "very good."

NY-DAL-WAS will vie for the division as all 3 have warts.

Dallas will score and give up a ton of points. They drafted parsons - great, their DL is not good at stopping the run, and they have zero players who can cover. D. Lawrence has 11.5 sacks his last 32 games.

Was has a good front 4, however, they are not great run defenders. Their D was 16 in rushing att and 13 in yards - similar to the Giants. Interesting on the OL as well. Last 3 years Was has given up 144 sacks while the Giants have 140. Giants run the ball slightly better. McLaurin is an awesome player

Philly is not in a good place now and we are all glad for it

i do not see anyone going and running away with the division

Washington's roster is good. Very strong front 7 on D. Solid weapons on Offense and an experienced QB who wins a lot of games. I'm not sure who is playing safety or tight end or if they have any depth in the secondary.

In comment 15259646 Capt. Don said:

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In comment 15259581 giants#1 said: Quote: In comment 15259561 Capt. Don said: Quote: but in two games last year with Davonte Freeman, Wayne Gallman and Alfred Morris we averaged 150 rushing ypg and our embattled offensive line allowed 5 sacks in 53 pass attempts. McLaurin is a nice receiver but there is nothing else about their skill players that sticks out. Their offensive line is nothing to write how about and although Fitzpatrick can get hot, he will also lose some games for them. Before Dak went out, the Dallas offense was on the same pace as the '99 Rams. I thought they had a great defensive draft. I think they are the favorites. Antonio Gibson is a very good RB - can catch passes and run between the tackles. And Logan Thomas is an above average receiving TE. We have different definitions of very good. I would put Gibson in the Wayne Gallman category. Average. Like I said, "nothing that sticks out." Logan Thomas too.

Gibson is way better than Gallman. I don't even think they are comparable players, as Gallman can't really catch. Beyond that though, Gibson showed me in one year than Gallman has his entire career.

As for your earlier question (Dallas's record with Dak) -- I get that they weren't a juggernaut or anything, but Dak is much better than Dalton, and the division was pretty close for the whole year. I think Dak is good enough for the 2-3 wins that Dallas needed to win that awful division.

The Dallas offense was really really good with Dak last year. I don't think it's crazy to say they'd have likely won if he didn't get injured.

In comment 15259861 Go Terps said:

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We know it already, Vegas doesn't think we will be more than a 7/8 win team. That's cool, guess we should just pack it up then and call it a season.

In comment 15259781 eric2425ny said:

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10-14 points doesn’t seem that far off honestly. It doesn’t mean Golladay and Rudolph are necessarily scoring the 10-14 more points a game, it’s the way they open up the offense. Double teams on Golladay mean Shepard, Toney, Engram, Slayton, etc. are open more often. Not to mention the impact on the running game by forcing teams to account for some legitimate receiving weapons and not stack the box every time Barkley is in the game.

Well, we need at least another TD per game to start to really compete. Looks like 25-26ppg gets you right in the mix. Now, we are fortunate with the expansion of playoff teams to an extra playoff spot per conference. Which will help...

But thinking we are going to pop 80%+ in points per game - 17ppg to 31ppg - is quite the leap. It may be historical. We can add all the talent in the world, but Jones is still going to have to be the catalyst to make all of this work. And I'm not sure how anyone - even his most ardent supporters like the Zekes of BBI - can be that confident in Jones - yet.

I agree. When you factor in Gibson just looked better as a rookie compared to a vet, and add in the growth potential, there's no question who i'd rather have.

Don, don't know what else to say on it. They look like different caliber players to me even if nether is "very good". Gibson will have a career as a starting RB (barring injury) and Gallman will not. He may have a solid season in SF to reset his value, but much of it will be attributed to the system.

uh, big fucking deal? Anyone with half a brain knows the vegas odds aren't indicative of what the experts actually think or believe. The odds are how they make their money.

When the odds say team A is favored by 3 pts, it doesn't mean vegas thinks team A is 3 pts better than the opposition. Vegas is moving the line to influence the bet.

Also, every single NYG super bowl win and appearance, save for MAYBE 1986, saw the team buck the odds, and in a big way.

everyone thought the Giants would suck. 06 saw them get more hype. 07 saw them revert back to less hype and Coughlin was a dead man walking. 08 might be the only time the Giants were held in high regard and actually delivered, even though many idiots said the team would be exposed as a lucky fluke, but Ok. 09? EVERYONE loved the Giants. They shit the bed. 2011? lol...should I remind everyone here? 2012 again, beloved by all, shit the bed. 2013? Beloved by all...shit the bed.

2014-15 probably saw them meet expectations. 2016 I remember like it was yesterday that most had them under-whelming. 2017 EVERYONE loved the Giants and of course they shit the bed.


Conjuring up with the experts say isn't exactly a sure fire way of cementing what will or will not happen.

just to reiterate, here's what Vegas thought last year:

The odds to win the division in 2020 was Washington +1300, Giants +1100, Philly +150 and Dallas -121.

It is almost an inverse of what actually happened

In comment 15259955 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15259781 eric2425ny said: Quote: 10-14 points doesn’t seem that far off honestly. It doesn’t mean Golladay and Rudolph are necessarily scoring the 10-14 more points a game, it’s the way they open up the offense. Double teams on Golladay mean Shepard, Toney, Engram, Slayton, etc. are open more often. Not to mention the impact on the running game by forcing teams to account for some legitimate receiving weapons and not stack the box every time Barkley is in the game. Well, we need at least another TD per game to start to really compete. Looks like 25-26ppg gets you right in the mix. Now, we are fortunate with the expansion of playoff teams to an extra playoff spot per conference. Which will help... But thinking we are going to pop 80%+ in points per game - 17ppg to 31ppg - is quite the leap. It may be historical. We can add all the talent in the world, but Jones is still going to have to be the catalyst to make all of this work. And I'm not sure how anyone - even his most ardent supporters like the Zekes of BBI - can be that confident in Jones - yet.

A touchdown better and an improved defense is my hope. That should put us in the mix in the NFCE. No world beaters here. Reasonable. It is easy to take the most optimistic take on the thread and point at that one.

Same for Green Bay.

I don't think I have ever seen a NYG team be treated with more disrespect and downright disgust than the 2020 Giants. just about everyone here had them going 4-12 at best. EVERYONE had the defense emulating the worst NYG defenses of all time.

about "purchasing" 1-14 more PPG, it won't just be Galladay and the vet TE that help with PPG but also the first round rookie, the return of Barkley (hopefully) and the extra year of maturation out of Jones and the OL and the entire team in general.

Most here can't see it because they are too close. If the Giants were called any other team, playing in any other city, we'd be looking at them with an objective lens saying there's a team clearly on the rise.

The secret will be out by October.

In comment 15259970 Thegratefulhead said:

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Well, we need at least another TD per game to start to really compete. Looks like 25-26ppg gets you right in the mix. Now, we are fortunate with the expansion of playoff teams to an extra playoff spot per conference. Which will help... But thinking we are going to pop 80%+ in points per game - 17ppg to 31ppg - is quite the leap. It may be historical. We can add all the talent in the world, but Jones is still going to have to be the catalyst to make all of this work. And I'm not sure how anyone - even his most ardent supporters like the Zekes of BBI - can be that confident in Jones - yet. A touchdown better and an improved defense is my hope. That should put us in the mix in the NFCE. No world beaters here. Reasonable. It is easy to take the most optimistic take on the thread and point at that one.

The defense gave up 22ppg - top ten in the NFL. Damn solid. But I could see that improving with Graham having more resources and most of the team back.

We've been over this real estate a thousand times but the season hinges on two things (in order): Jones and the OL.

I'm not sure Jones is good enough to help overcome an OL with so many question marks and I'm not sure this OL can help Jones overcome his issues.

It's going to be a fascinating year...

In comment 15259982 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15259970 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: Well, we need at least another TD per game to start to really compete. Looks like 25-26ppg gets you right in the mix. Now, we are fortunate with the expansion of playoff teams to an extra playoff spot per conference. Which will help... But thinking we are going to pop 80%+ in points per game - 17ppg to 31ppg - is quite the leap. It may be historical. We can add all the talent in the world, but Jones is still going to have to be the catalyst to make all of this work. And I'm not sure how anyone - even his most ardent supporters like the Zekes of BBI - can be that confident in Jones - yet. A touchdown better and an improved defense is my hope. That should put us in the mix in the NFCE. No world beaters here. Reasonable. It is easy to take the most optimistic take on the thread and point at that one. The defense gave up 22ppg - top ten in the NFL. Damn solid. But I could see that improving with Graham having more resources and most of the team back. We've been over this real estate a thousand times but the season hinges on two things (in order): Jones and the OL. I'm not sure Jones is good enough to help overcome an OL with so many question marks and I'm not sure this OL can help Jones overcome his issues. It's going to be a fascinating year...

The OL is going to be helped by the skill player additions and the return of Barkley. They were serviceable by year's end. Engram was our first option, he is likely 4 now.

No talked about it, but the special teams are going to be largely improved as well. Field position helps. I think it extremely fair that you're skeptical.

Talking up the additions helps our cause if Jones fails. I have absolutely zero emotional attachment to Jones and if he fails, I could care less about my take that I thought he was going to have a good year in 2021. I will be here saying GTFO.

In comment 15259741 GiantBlue said:

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since his injury. In the past, he would create with his legs and that compensated some for his accuracy issues. Speaking of accuracy issues, Hurts did not appear at all accurate last year and sometimes second seasons are tough for QB's once teams study how to defend you. As for WFT.....Fitz is amazing, but we always seem to beat him no matter what team he plays for. This division is ours if we can get solid OL play and stay somewhat injury-free.

I agree with you about the key to the Giants season will be the play of our OL.
Dak Prescott gets more love on BBI than he does on the Dallas Fan Zone. In my mind Prescott has had a very good supporting cast.In his early years with outstanding OL it was ball control with Zeke. Now he has an outstanding group of receivers. He has a history of not performing in the big games. He is still a QB that tends to stare down receivers and has bad mechanics when pressured. It remains to be seen if he runs as much because of the ankle.

seem fairly close with different strengths and weaknesses. Three questions I think you have and how each team responds will lead to the division champion.

NYG: Will Jones step up in year 3 behind what needs to be at least solid OL? If those two don't happen then adding all the weapons will have insignificant impact.
DAL: Will the OL rebound from injuries allowing them to run a offense that can run well and has big play passing potential? They will have to score a lot of points.
WFT: Can Fitzpatrick perform as the opening day starter and perform well?

with him their offense is probably the best unit in the division so even if their D has been brutal (it has) and their OL is aging (it is), I'd take the QB over all else.

The Redskins defense is solid and Rivera is a better coach than McCarthy. But there is a ceiling on a Fitzpatrick QB'd team.

Philly is an unknown with the new coach and Hurts but barring something extraordinary their talent level seems below the other 3 because I don't see a good unit on either side. Both units were ranked bottom 1/3 last year.

I hate that team more than any other sports franchise, but they have been a thorn in the Giants side for the past decade. I really hope they stay in the cellar for the rest of my life, but I doubt it.
I think Washington will be the best of the three teams listed, simply because of Rivera. He is a very good coach and will get the best out of Fitz this coming season.
I hope Dallas has nothing but personnel trouble all season!

In comment 15259861 Go Terps said:

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Vegas gives you an objective view on how the bettors perceive the teams, but bettors aren't objective.

This is a QB league and DAL has the best one. Hopefully our boy can take a step forward.

They have the best QB. I think you can win in this league with a shitty D, but if you have a shitty O, it's hard to overcome.

Fitzpatrick has never put it together for 16 games. He has 3-4 game spurts then turns back into a pumpkin. That's what makes him so maddening.

All I heard last season was that they were a doormat when the Giants beat them (twice), those wins never counted for much. Now, WFT is the clear cut favorite to so many? I don’t get it.

The Giants went 4-2 in the division last year, including 3-0 at home in the division, something which they haven’t done prior since 2005!

Again, I’m having trouble seeing why WFT is clearly ahead of the Giants.

In comment 15259540 Chris684 said:

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Washington has the best roster "other than QB" which is pretty much the biggest caveat which exists in the NFL. People can get excited about Fitzpatrick if they like, I don't buy into him as a full-time starter. Can you do worse? Sure. He's similar to a solid bench player in MLB. He can lull you into thinking he's deserving of a starting job by playing well in spot duty. Once he's in there every week you realize why he always reverts back to a backup. I don't think Philly is anything great but they do tend to surprise.

Fitzpatrick is 59-86-1 all time, playing on many different teams.

Alex Smith was 11-5 in Washington. 6-4, then 5-1. In some ways, this might be Smith's best body of work versus those Chiefs/49ers teams.

If Fitzpatrick can't get the team to 9 or 10 wins, it's time to call him out for he is - a gunslinger whose talent isn't enough to carry him for an entire season.

WFT is significantly better now than they were in 2018. No excuses for Fitzpatrick.

Too much offense.

In comment 15259721 Go Terps said:

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"We purchased 10-14 more points a game with Rudolph and Golloday." This is a gem.

Yes -- this is because I watched and analyzed the games the Giants played last year. We were so, so close in 6 games, and could have scored more points with just a little solid juice. That's what these two players represent - 1) they represent 3-4 first downs we didn't get in each of those games; 2) they represent goal line TD plays in each game that we didn't get and settled for field goals or loss of yards; and 3) they represent more options in the stretch the field game

so I'm maintaining that's what they represent to the Giants -- they are exactly what the Giants need to progress this season

I don't give a d@mn about statistics - or league wide analysis. That's pussy football. The Giants are playing real football tough gritty football under this coaching staff. And if you watch last season you will see exactly what the Giants needed to be successful -- and they went out and got it.

In comment 15259855 UConn4523 said:

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we are reminded of it often. Plenty of teams out/under perform their Vegas odds, some by several games so who cares.

I think the number is low, but pros rarely bet the over on season win totals because a couple injuries and it can change a whole season. I think DJs recent injury history is baked into that number and Saquon is a giant question mark until he’s not.

"I don't give a d@mn about statistics - or league wide analysis. That's pussy football. The Giants are playing real football tough gritty football under this coaching staff. And if you watch last season you will see exactly what the Giants needed to be successful -- and they went out and got it."

And they can be had. I think their QB and RBs aren't very good, but that defense is the real deal, and they'll be in a lot of games late in the 4th quarter. Ron Rivera is one of the best coaches in the game, but that's offset by WTF having one of the worst meddling owners in all of sports. Their whole season boils down to whether Ryan FitzMagic can cobble together ten decent games - which he's never been able to do in his fifteen years in the league - or if he gives games away as has been his M.O. since the Bush Administration.

Philadelphia will implode by October 15.

With an aging OL and RB, and a QB on the mend, Dallas won't score as many points as it did last year. That's a shame for them, because they'll give up a lot more points than they did last year, too. Those DBs are BAD. In a normal year and a normal division, they'd be pegged for a sub .500 season and a fairly high draft position in 2022; but this is the NFC East, so they might sneak in as the champs this year.

But honestly, and for the first time in about a decade, I think the Giants are the best team in the division. It's not necessarily saying much, but I think they're better than all three of those other teams.

Also the grittiest 1-3 finish in the final quarter of the season. (3 home losses!)

If he even comes close, Dallas is easily the best of the three and the Giants' O-line is going to be severely tested.

In comment 15260657 GeofromNJ said:

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If he even comes close, Dallas is easily the best of the three and the Giants' O-line is going to be severely tested.

Depends on how Dallas wants to use him, as a MIKE (as he was in college) or as a rushbacker (what he was coming out of high school).

In comment 15260657 GeofromNJ said:

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If he even comes close, Dallas is easily the best of the three and the Giants' O-line is going to be severely tested.

First, there will never be another LT ... Second, Parsons was there for the Giants to take at 11. No one knows him better than Coach chaos, and even though I originally bought into his hype, I have great confidence in the Giants evaluation and assessment.

the Eagles finish in the rear.