This article talks about some of the things that we’ve discussed here regarding the interactions between DG and Zeus ge, including how much Judge was the”decider” on draft day picks and deals.
I hope it wasn’t linked previously; I glanced but did t search all that carefully.
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Nothing would make me happier from a football standpoint than Dave Gettleman getting the last laugh on people like me who have hammered everything he's done these past three years.
Regardless of if it's because John Mara finally hired the right head coach or not if the Giants become winners in the next year or two Dave can take all the victory laps and last laughs he wants.
Have to admit it got pretty tiring having to read people say over and over that the Giants won't trade down bc "DG never trades down".
And they acted like I'm stupid when I said we might trade down bc: the past is irrelevant, the sample size of DG's drafts is small and JJ (with his BB influence) now has input. Who's stupid now?! ha ha! I feel better now, thanks.
Have to admit it got pretty tiring having to read people say over and over that the Giants won't trade down bc "DG never trades down".
And they acted like I'm stupid when I said we might trade down bc: the past is irrelevant, the sample size of DG's drafts is small and JJ (with his BB influence) now has input. Who's stupid now?! ha ha! I feel better now, thanks.
FMiC. clearly explained who DG was in Carolina and why he left. He’s quite clued in to the Panthers, so though I didn’t want DG here when he was hired, I kept harkening back to FMiC’s posts on the matter. It motivated me to be patient. Might be paying off
I keed:)
I keed:)
Murdering bastid!
good post Essex. I agree. DG does what he thinks to be in the best interest of the Franchise. No personal agenda.
He may make some bad decisions, but I get the sense that he truly does LOVE this organization with every fiber in his body, and that he will always do what is best for the team, in his opinion, above all else.
He always said the greatest gift he could give this org was a franchise QB and I truly do believe he thinks Jones is the answer. I hope he is right, time will tell, but he seems to be a genuine, high integrity guy.
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whether you agree with his moves or not is that he has integrity. I believe every move he does is what is best for the NY Football Giants. Most GM's do what is best for them (and that a lot of the time corresponds with what is best for the football team but not always. Here is a guy who is constantly reminded about his job security by the media, has the media bait the owner into saying that this year is a must playoff year, but the GM is still accumulating draft picks for next year and beyond. That is commendable. I may go hot and cold on him, but I trust that he will do what is right for our football team (even if it does not, in the end, work out).
He may make some bad decisions, but I get the sense that he truly does LOVE this organization with every fiber in his body, and that he will always do what is best for the team, in his opinion, above all else.
He always said the greatest gift he could give this org was a franchise QB and I truly do believe he thinks Jones is the answer. I hope he is right, time will tell, but he seems to be a genuine, high integrity guy.
And if he is not right about Jones he now has the draft capital to potentially address that error next year. And if it goes that way (which I hope it doesn’t) hopefully he gets it right before he retires.
I think the transition will be to either Abrams, Pettit or O’Brien. So, I’m not surprised Gettleman is taking a long term view.
Would probably get u the top qb on the board
That being said, I think jones will show enough that they pick up 5th yr option and he is starting in yr 4
I know what team loves about jones. I just hope they aren’t blind spots they are ignoring because of that love
JJ doesn’t seems cut from that cloth
Would probably get u the top qb on the board
That being said, I think jones will show enough that they pick up 5th yr option and he is starting in yr 4
I know what team loves about jones. I just hope they aren’t blind spots they are ignoring because of that love
JJ doesn’t seems cut from that cloth
I couldn’t agree more about the investment in/love of Jones potentially blinding DG, but as you said I have full faith that JJ will hold him accountable and make sure that doesn’t happen - that is if Jones disappoints this season, which I hope and don’t think will be the case.
Either way they are pretty well hedged. Thank you Philadelphia.
However, it does feel as if there were some subtle changes going on last season with player additions. And some not-so-subtle ones occurring now this offseason with certain transactions. Can reasonably conclude Judge is making a difference, and this year he has begun to stretch out within the organization even more. Albeit under the umbrella of a collaborative process with a front office that supports now maybe more than it decides.
Nothing would make me happier from a football standpoint than Dave Gettleman getting the last laugh on people like me who have hammered everything he's done these past three years.
Regardless of if it's because John Mara finally hired the right head coach or not if the Giants become winners in the next year or two Dave can take all the victory laps and last laughs he wants.
I don't think 54 opportunities is a small sample.
Rivera - defensive minded and the emphasis on defensive line in Carolina is the same with Rivera in Washington.
Shurmur - most of the players brought in under shurmur had ties to shurmur and even moreso bettcher and the cardinals. Shurmur had a lot of say in drafting Daniel Jones and why wouldn't you listen to shurmur when it comes to quarterbacks.
Joe judge - tough, smart, versatile players. A lot of players drafted with SEC ties.
This is not a knock on gettleman at all. This is what makes him a good GM. Give the coaches the players they need to build the team they want. Working collaboratively.
Either way they are pretty well hedged. Thank you Philadelphia.
That's a very good point. We have hedged against Jones going the wrong way. I have the feeling this strategy was very likely hatched by Judge/O'Brien, but DG gets credit because he is still the GM.
Ironically, however, Philly is also well hedged. They have two first rounders and two second rounders in 2022. And one of the second rounders can become a first if Wentz play 75% of the snaps in '21.
Rivera - defensive minded and the emphasis on defensive line in Carolina is the same with Rivera in Washington.
Shurmur - most of the players brought in under shurmur had ties to shurmur and even moreso bettcher and the cardinals. Shurmur had a lot of say in drafting Daniel Jones and why wouldn't you listen to shurmur when it comes to quarterbacks.
Joe judge - tough, smart, versatile players. A lot of players drafted with SEC ties.
This is not a knock on gettleman at all. This is what makes him a good GM. Give the coaches the players they need to build the team they want. Working collaboratively.
Perfectly stated my man
Rivera - defensive minded and the emphasis on defensive line in Carolina is the same with Rivera in Washington.
Shurmur - most of the players brought in under shurmur had ties to shurmur and even moreso bettcher and the cardinals. Shurmur had a lot of say in drafting Daniel Jones and why wouldn't you listen to shurmur when it comes to quarterbacks.
Joe judge - tough, smart, versatile players. A lot of players drafted with SEC ties.
This is not a knock on gettleman at all. This is what makes him a good GM. Give the coaches the players they need to build the team they want. Working collaboratively.
So he’s just a Yes man?
:-)
Maybe the population on here is more intelligent than
moronic.
This plus my optimism about the Giants over the next few years is going to make a pleasant last couple of years.
Nothing would make me happier from a football standpoint than Dave Gettleman getting the last laugh on people like me who have hammered everything he's done these past three years.
These are typical petty posts from some of you.
Who the hell cares who has last laugh as long as the Giants win?
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you cray cray?
Have to admit it got pretty tiring having to read people say over and over that the Giants won't trade down bc "DG never trades down".
And they acted like I'm stupid when I said we might trade down bc: the past is irrelevant, the sample size of DG's drafts is small and JJ (with his BB influence) now has input. Who's stupid now?! ha ha! I feel better now, thanks.
FMiC. clearly explained who DG was in Carolina and why he left. He’s quite clued in to the Panthers, so though I didn’t want DG here when he was hired, I kept harkening back to FMiC’s posts on the matter. It motivated me to be patient. Might be paying off
You realize the Giants have sucked since he came aboard, right?
He hasn't accomplished shit yet, you realize that, right?
Unless you're proud of a 6-10 team?
If you are so confident that they have turned the corner, can you tell us all how much money you put down on the Giants to go over 7 wins?
well put.
For all the average fans out there on pins and needles...what does a rebuild mean?
After 3 years we're 6-10 and we're in a conference that was historically bad.
I'm sickened how fans like yourself are so proud of 6-10.
When are you going to stop telling us that that the team is a winner instead of showing me?
If you think they are on the right track, then how much are you gambling on the Giants to get over 7 wins?
The team was 6-10 in an awful awful conference.
Cmon' Tuckrule, you have to show us!!!
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the sample size of DG's drafts is small
I don't think 54 opportunities is a small sample.
I figured someone would say that. Here's my thinking: i was mainly referring to the first round and I don’t think there is a lot of trading down in general (outside NE), after the 2nd rd.
So, he had 8 first rds prior to '21. Is it so hard to believe that it didn't make sense (in the collective minds of DG, his coaches and staff) to trade down for some of those 8? And maybe some year(s), it could've made sense, but there was no willing trade partner, at least not one willing to give a fair deal.
DG obviously works with his coaches, so is it possible Riviera in Carolina didn't want to trade down bc there were players he wanted that might not be available after a trade down?
And I said that JJ could make a difference.
Reminder - we’ve had three consecutive double digit loss seasons.
So until we actually have a winning record, Jones plays like the 6th pick in the draft, and we make the playoffs there are no dividends that have been paid.
This team will win over 7 games. If you can’t see the progress made year after year then I’m not sure what your watching. We won 6 games with a terrible offense. I mean horrendous offense. We added Golladay, Toney, Rudolph and we’re getting a healthy Barkley back. DG revamped the defense to be a top 10 unit. If this offense improves, which we all believe it will, why can’t this team win more than 7 games and get to the playoffs?
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Do you ignore the shitty roster we had when he came aboard? You just dismiss the roster overhaul that paid dividends last year. He is exactly on track in this rebuild. Year 3 of the QB is now. I still love how fans bitch about DG like he’s ruining the franchise it’s hysterical and shows me the average fan doesn’t know what a rebuild means.
Reminder - we’ve had three consecutive double digit loss seasons.
So until we actually have a winning record, Jones plays like the 6th pick in the draft, and we make the playoffs there are no dividends that have been paid.
Come on. I expect more from you. Your a very good poster. Jones plays like a 6th overall pick? How was josh Allen with limited talent? Aaron Rodgers couldn’t put this team on his back with the offensive “weapons” we had last season. Engram dropping balls causing INTs. Shepard banged up. Slayton banged up. Barkley out all year. This is the make or break for him. Added weapons and let’s see how innovative Garrett can be.
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Do you ignore the shitty roster we had when he came aboard? You just dismiss the roster overhaul that paid dividends last year. He is exactly on track in this rebuild. Year 3 of the QB is now. I still love how fans bitch about DG like he’s ruining the franchise it’s hysterical and shows me the average fan doesn’t know what a rebuild means.
For all the average fans out there on pins and needles...what does a rebuild mean?
Tuckrule - haven't really seen your answer. what does a rebuild mean?
You mentioned to another poster that it doesn't really begin until you draft your future QB. But that doesn't really capture it for this average fan. For example, can't a team begin to rebuild their defense or offensive line and just leave a fill-in at QB for a year or two? Conversely, what if Jones isn't the future at QB and that is determined sometime this year? Does the rebuild begin again next year even though the NY Giants might have a top 10 defense, star RB, revamped WR unit and offensive line?
Again, maybe just answer the question...what's a rebuild? Please add some parameters and maybe even a threshold so the average fan can tell when the rebuild is over.
He ended up completely tearing it down, got some nice returns while getting rid of some aging high priced oft injured players.
I don't think completely overturning an NFL roster in 3 years is easy. I actually don't think I've ever seen it done.
And it appears (at least to some of us) that we're about to enter a very nice era. But some people just want to continue to bitch about the past, including years when none of the current coaches, decision makers or players were involved.
A rebuild, to me, truly begins with finding the franchise QB. Yes you can work backwards and leave that for the end but is that truly how teams do it? Usually not. They locate their franchise guy and build inside out. In 2018 we tried to give eli one more shot. It was a poor move but at the same time DG had started to shed bad contracts and revamp the defense. The rebuilding period truly began when the giants acknowledged eli was done and a replacement was needed, the drafting of jones at 6th overall in 2019. Look at every single rookie qb. They are given 3 years to “prove”
Themselves worthy. This is the year! All the bitching about DG and the constant complaining is ridiculous. Look at this roster on paper and tell me which unit to you looks poor. The only complaint we have as fans is the offensive line and as far as the giants brass is concerned they are not worried. All the other units on paper look strong. Look at this roster now compared to prior to his arrival. Night and day.
Ozzie Newsome took over a bad Browns/Ravens team and didn't reach .500 until his 4th season. Didn't have a winning record until his 5th
George Young had a winning season in his 3rd year but only 1 in his first 5
John Lynch (who is often credited here with rebuilding the Niners "quickly") has had 1 winning season out of his 4.
Scott Pioli had 1 winning season out of 4 as the Chiefs GM
Immediate success hasn't happened for many GM's, but we should at least see that progress is being made.
And if we are looking at success as a barometer, Gettleman is still Carolina's best ever GM from a winning percentage standpoint.
You realize the Giants have sucked since he came aboard, right?
He hasn't accomplished shit yet, you realize that, right?
Unless you're proud of a 6-10 team?
If you are so confident that they have turned the corner, can you tell us all how much money you put down on the Giants to go over 7 wins?
I'm not a betting person, but if I was, I would place a good bet they're going to win >7 this year. For f*cks sake, they almost won 7 last year (with new coach, new offense, extremely young OL, no OTAs, no preseason and starting 1-7) with the worst offense in the league!
Despite all that, they finished the '20 season 5-3 and then added multiple playmakers. Do you really think Golladay, Toney, Rudolph and getting Barkley back isn't going to make a difference (for DJ and the team)?
Also, the young OL is more experienced and should have a normal training camp, preseason, and our D which was good in '20 should be even better in '21, etc., etc.
I'm predicting 10-6 in '21 and competing for SB in '22-23. Yeah, that's right.
He has turned over 51 roster spots of the 53 man roster he inherited, in some instances multiple times. 96%.
That's how bad the roster was that was inherited. And if you're going to say that he shouldn't have shipped some of those people out, please state who and why.
He had 21 draft picks, and 3 free agency periods to do so. He also had to replace the franchise QB.
Regardless of whether you think he misjudged the roster when he first arrived, and regardless of when he started the rebuild... We now know the magnitude of what the rebuild entailed.
How fast was he supposed to turn over the ENTIRE roster including franchise QB with finite resources? Seems to me year 3 or 4 should start to show some dividends, and we've now started to see them.
The only that will redeem Gettleman is a winning season.
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In comment 15260011 Dr. D said:
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you cray cray?
Have to admit it got pretty tiring having to read people say over and over that the Giants won't trade down bc "DG never trades down".
And they acted like I'm stupid when I said we might trade down bc: the past is irrelevant, the sample size of DG's drafts is small and JJ (with his BB influence) now has input. Who's stupid now?! ha ha! I feel better now, thanks.
FMiC. clearly explained who DG was in Carolina and why he left. He’s quite clued in to the Panthers, so though I didn’t want DG here when he was hired, I kept harkening back to FMiC’s posts on the matter. It motivated me to be patient. Might be paying off
You realize the Giants have sucked since he came aboard, right?
He hasn't accomplished shit yet, you realize that, right?
Unless you're proud of a 6-10 team?
If you are so confident that they have turned the corner, can you tell us all how much money you put down on the Giants to go over 7 wins?
Just a point of clarification, the purpose of the article wasn't to tell you that the Giants record over the past 3 or 6 or whatever years is anything other than what it was. The point was to describe and discuss the working relationship among among members of Giant management, with a particular emphasis on Gettleman and his head coaches.
Ozzie Newsome took over a bad Browns/Ravens team and didn't reach .500 until his 4th season. Didn't have a winning record until his 5th
George Young had a winning season in his 3rd year but only 1 in his first 5
John Lynch (who is often credited here with rebuilding the Niners "quickly") has had 1 winning season out of his 4.
Scott Pioli had 1 winning season out of 4 as the Chiefs GM
Immediate success hasn't happened for many GM's, but we should at least see that progress is being made.
And if we are looking at success as a barometer, Gettleman is still Carolina's best ever GM from a winning percentage standpoint.
Great post, FMIC
Good posts, Tuckrule.
He has turned over 51 roster spots of the 53 man roster he inherited, in some instances multiple times. 96%.
That's how bad the roster was that was inherited. And if you're going to say that he shouldn't have shipped some of those people out, please state who and why.
He had 21 draft picks, and 3 free agency periods to do so. He also had to replace the franchise QB.
Regardless of whether you think he misjudged the roster when he first arrived, and regardless of when he started the rebuild... We now know the magnitude of what the rebuild entailed.
How fast was he supposed to turn over the ENTIRE roster including franchise QB with finite resources? Seems to me year 3 or 4 should start to show some dividends, and we've now started to see them.
good post, Britt
For real?!
Now I'm really excited!