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If Jones pans out this year we are set up nicely

eric2425ny : 5/10/2021 7:28 pm
for the future with the young talent we have now plus 7 picks in the first 4 rounds next year (including two 1st’s). Gives us the chance to move up for just about any player or stay put and build up even more depth.

And worst case, Jones has a bad season and we can package up some picks to move up and select the next QB. Keep in mind even if Jones has a crappy third year and we draft another QB it’s not really cost ineffective to keep Jones for year 4 and let him compete with the new guy. He’s still on a rookie scale deal.

Exciting time to be a Giants fan.
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not sure  
MookGiants : 5/10/2021 7:51 pm : link
that 2022 draft is going to be a good year for QB's. If Jones doesn't pan out, they shouldn't force the pick just because they need a QB. That would be making the same mistake twice if he doesn't pan out.

Having two first rounders is certainly not a bad thing though
RE: not sure  
Sean : 5/10/2021 8:01 pm : link
In comment 15260165 MookGiants said:
Quote:
that 2022 draft is going to be a good year for QB's. If Jones doesn't pan out, they shouldn't force the pick just because they need a QB. That would be making the same mistake twice if he doesn't pan out.

Having two first rounders is certainly not a bad thing though

Good point, but QB’s will rise up like they do every year.
Jones has two years  
Bricktop : 5/10/2021 8:05 pm : link
most likely, then it's contract or bust and potential QB redraft in 2023.

That said, we either need him to make big strides or completely fail miserably. The Giants cannot be caught in purgatory.
RE: Jones has two years  
Scooter185 : 5/10/2021 8:33 pm : link
In comment 15260177 Bricktop said:
Quote:
most likely, then it's contract or bust and potential QB redraft in 2023.

That said, we either need him to make big strides or completely fail miserably. The Giants cannot be caught in purgatory.


Yeah there's no worse place to be in sports than just meh.
RE: not sure  
Bill L : 5/10/2021 8:34 pm : link
In comment 15260165 MookGiants said:
Quote:
that 2022 draft is going to be a good year for QB's. If Jones doesn't pan out, they shouldn't force the pick just because they need a QB. That would be making the same mistake twice if he doesn't pan out.

Having two first rounders is certainly not a bad thing though

I believe (maybe just being optimistic) that he will pan out, but if he does not, maybe those two picks don’t have to be used to draft a qb but to help us get a vet?
The Giants are not taking a QB next year you baffoons...  
bLiTz 2k : 5/10/2021 8:35 pm : link
Get over it.
RE: not sure  
Jimmy Googs : 5/10/2021 8:41 pm : link
In comment 15260165 MookGiants said:
Quote:
that 2022 draft is going to be a good year for QB's. If Jones doesn't pan out, they shouldn't force the pick just because they need a QB. That would be making the same mistake twice if he doesn't pan out.

Having two first rounders is certainly not a bad thing though


Can always use the picks to trade for a QB as well. No need to force it in the draft as you mentioned.

That trade down could be the deal that turned the tide...
RE: The Giants are not taking a QB next year you baffoons...  
Milton : 5/10/2021 8:49 pm : link
In comment 15260193 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
Get over it.
Sure they are. But in the middle rounds, somebody to develop behind Jones, especially given his history of injuries. Someone who can be in the system for four years on a rookie contract. With two 3rd round picks and two 4th round picks, it's worth it to spend one of them on a QB they fancy (even if it isn't full bloom love).
RE: Jones has two years  
Go Terps : 5/10/2021 8:55 pm : link
In comment 15260177 Bricktop said:
Quote:
most likely, then it's contract or bust and potential QB redraft in 2023.

That said, we either need him to make big strides or completely fail miserably. The Giants cannot be caught in purgatory.


Jones "gets" another shot in 2022 if he stinks again in 2021? Oof.
RE: RE: Jones has two years  
Bricktop : 5/10/2021 8:59 pm : link
In comment 15260198 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15260177 Bricktop said:


Quote:


most likely, then it's contract or bust and potential QB redraft in 2023.

That said, we either need him to make big strides or completely fail miserably. The Giants cannot be caught in purgatory.



Jones "gets" another shot in 2022 if he stinks again in 2021? Oof.


Yeah, he does. What's your alternative if he "stinks?"

Oof.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/10/2021 8:59 pm : link
This 'Not a great crop of QBs' line...who had Burrows going #1 in 2020 before 2019 season?
Jones aside...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/10/2021 9:05 pm : link
... multiple quarterbacks will emerge during the season next year that teams will want to draft at the top of the 1st round.

I’m hopeful that there is good reason to extend Jones.
RE: RE: RE: Jones has two years  
bLiTz 2k : 5/10/2021 9:05 pm : link
In comment 15260199 Bricktop said:
Quote:
In comment 15260198 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15260177 Bricktop said:


Quote:


most likely, then it's contract or bust and potential QB redraft in 2023.

That said, we either need him to make big strides or completely fail miserably. The Giants cannot be caught in purgatory.



Jones "gets" another shot in 2022 if he stinks again in 2021? Oof.



Yeah, he does. What's your alternative if he "stinks?"

Oof.


Most with a brain would argue he didn't stink in 2019 and most of 2020.

The narrative that he has is perpetuated by "fans" that dont know what they're looking at.
Certain people on this board  
Bricktop : 5/10/2021 9:08 pm : link
hope Jones fails just so they're somehow proven correct or to improve their perceived knowledge of the game and team. It's a horrible way to be a fan, imo. But to each his own.
Perfect world  
Payasdaddy : 5/10/2021 9:10 pm : link
Jones shows top 10 potential, bears suck and we package that pick for. Bunch of 2022 and 23 picks
Or we get a nice blue chipper in a hopefully deep draft
My real hope is that in rd 3 we are getting 2 round talent because draft so deep
And first 32 picks ( since we draft 32) will seem like top 20 picks
RE: ...  
Sean : 5/10/2021 9:15 pm : link
In comment 15260200 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
This 'Not a great crop of QBs' line...who had Burrows going #1 in 2020 before 2019 season?

Yup. How about Zach Wilson? Trey Lance? There will be QB’s thought of highly.
RE: Certain people on this board  
TLong : 5/10/2021 9:20 pm : link
In comment 15260207 Bricktop said:
Quote:
hope Jones fails just so they're somehow proven correct or to improve their perceived knowledge of the game and team. It's a horrible way to be a fan, imo. But to each his own.


How right you are! I'm so tired of reading the posts from
the pessimists on BBI!
RE: Certain people on this board  
Go Terps : 5/10/2021 9:20 pm : link
In comment 15260207 Bricktop said:
Quote:
hope Jones fails just so they're somehow proven correct or to improve their perceived knowledge of the game and team. It's a horrible way to be a fan, imo. But to each his own.


Such a load of shit. And if you're going to make that claim, have the balls to name names. Further, being a Stockholm Syndrome victim to shitty football is no better way of being a fan.

If Jones plays in 21 like he did in 19 and 20, the preferable alternatives will be numerous.
RE: RE: Certain people on this board  
Bricktop : 5/10/2021 9:33 pm : link
In comment 15260214 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15260207 Bricktop said:


Quote:


hope Jones fails just so they're somehow proven correct or to improve their perceived knowledge of the game and team. It's a horrible way to be a fan, imo. But to each his own.



Such a load of shit. And if you're going to make that claim, have the balls to name names. Further, being a Stockholm Syndrome victim to shitty football is no better way of being a fan.

If Jones plays in 21 like he did in 19 and 20, the preferable alternatives will be numerous.


I didn't care for the Jones pick. I thought it was a mistake. Then, I grew up and realized bitching and moaning about the pick does absolutely nothing to further my enjoyment of being a Giants fan. So I'm pragmatic and unemotional about it. Apparently, the organization and investment in weapons this offseason supports that position.

I don't care if you're one of the "fans" I referred to previously. I don't know. But there are undoubtedly fans who want Jones to fail.

And what are these "preferable alternatives?" Hope that they fall so flat that a high draft pick is a foregone conclusion? Trade for a retread and hope it works out? Something else? Hope isn't a strategy.

I think Jones has enough to be successful. I've seen him make some elite-level throws, use his athleticism to run for big gains and also fall victim to bad drops, subpar route running, subpar OL play, a superstar RB injury, a pandemic, multiple coaching changes, playing with injuries and his best weapon being a rookie WR. Yes, he's got some warts. Maybe have some faith? Idk.

Feel free to offer your plan instead though.
There are undoubtedly fans that want Jones to fail?  
Jimmy Googs : 5/10/2021 9:39 pm : link
Like who...
With  
jtfuoco : 5/10/2021 9:41 pm : link
What Jones has to work with now this is it. There will be no more excuses and I think they will go after his replacement with a draft pick the veteran QB sounds appealing but with all the cash dealt out this year cap wise this team will be limited.
Brick  
Go Terps : 5/10/2021 9:53 pm : link
Hope isn't a strategy, but I should have some faith? I just want to make sure I got that right.

You know what impacts my ability to enjoy being a fan? Shitty football.

I agree that hope isn't a strategy. And I don't have faith in anyone that hasn't earned it.
If Jones Fails  
WillVAB : 5/10/2021 9:55 pm : link
I wouldn’t automatically package picks to get the next QB. The goal should be getting the right QB, not just burning assets the moment it’s apparent Jones isn’t the guy.

If Jones fails and a worthy QB is within range in 22, go for it. If 22 is weak and 23 is strong, trade for picks in 23.

They need to be strategic with what they’ve acquired.
RE: Brick  
Bricktop : 5/10/2021 10:00 pm : link
In comment 15260242 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Hope isn't a strategy, but I should have some faith? I just want to make sure I got that right.

You know what impacts my ability to enjoy being a fan? Shitty football.

I agree that hope isn't a strategy. And I don't have faith in anyone that hasn't earned it.


It's a good point. But I have faith that there are some real pieces in place now that set up Jones pretty well. There are measurable skills from new skill guys, an OL that should be improved and the return of Barkley. Plus, a defense that will help. Look - I get what you're saying (and you and I agreed on many things years ago before my break from BBI under my "B" handle - so I'm not trying to insult you or put you down for your position. I'm just choosing to stay positive. And you can't tell me that there's been a similar offseason since maybe Plax. There are some things to be really excited about.
Jones biggest liability might be  
give66 : 5/10/2021 10:01 pm : link
Jason Garrett. Hopefully next offseason won’t be blame it on JG and we get a new coordinator. Unfortunately im pessimistic based on Jone’s stats dropping from the Shurmer regime to last season. The whole JG success, if you can call it that in Dallas might have been driven by one of the best OL in recent history and not coaching.
RE: RE: RE: Jones has two years  
GMen72 : 5/10/2021 10:11 pm : link
In comment 15260199 Bricktop said:
Quote:
In comment 15260198 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15260177 Bricktop said:


Quote:


most likely, then it's contract or bust and potential QB redraft in 2023.

That said, we either need him to make big strides or completely fail miserably. The Giants cannot be caught in purgatory.



Jones "gets" another shot in 2022 if he stinks again in 2021? Oof.



Yeah, he does. What's your alternative if he "stinks?"

Oof.


If he stinks, you have to draft a replacement next year. You're not going to give him a 5th year option, which means his teammates know he's toast. No need to waste a year.

Gentleman has to go too.
If Jones stinks next year  
Bergen346 : 5/10/2021 10:26 pm : link
We will be moving on, I don’t know how you can dispute that and I am rooting for Jones. Let’s hope that’s not the case but its not often you get two first rounders. AND if Jones does indeed stink we will have a high first rounder on our own most likely.... you’re crazy to think they don’t make a move. And maybe that is trading back AGAIN, but if Jones stinks this year the wheels will be in motion. 2021 will define Daniel Jones NFL career, lets hope its for the better.
RE: RE: Jones has two years  
jvm52106 : 5/10/2021 10:42 pm : link
In comment 15260198 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15260177 Bricktop said:


Quote:


most likely, then it's contract or bust and potential QB redraft in 2023.

That said, we either need him to make big strides or completely fail miserably. The Giants cannot be caught in purgatory.



Jones "gets" another shot in 2022 if he stinks again in 2021? Oof.


He didn't stink last year and quite honestly tgat leg injury nailed him just as the Oline was starting to play better. But, doesn't matter overall as he will succeed this year . You will still gripe but whatever it is what it is.
RE: If Jones Fails  
eric2425ny : 5/10/2021 10:46 pm : link
In comment 15260244 WillVAB said:
Quote:
I wouldn’t automatically package picks to get the next QB. The goal should be getting the right QB, not just burning assets the moment it’s apparent Jones isn’t the guy.

If Jones fails and a worthy QB is within range in 22, go for it. If 22 is weak and 23 is strong, trade for picks in 23.

They need to be strategic with what they’ve acquired.


Good post, 100% agree.
I've seen a few posters recently call next years draft  
Jay on the Island : 5/10/2021 10:46 pm : link
a weak QB draft. As history has shown we have no idea how QB classes will develop over the next year. The Mahomes and Watson draft was considered a weak class.

The Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, and Allen draft was considered by some as the best since 2004.

Going into their final collegiate seasons Burrow and Mayfield were considered day 3 picks. Zach Wilson was battling for the starting job at BYU. Trey Lance and Carson Wentz were both unknown prospects going into their final seasons.

We have also seen overhyped QB's going from potential top 10 picks to day 3/UDFA's. There are some QB's that will come out of nowhere and end up being in the discussion for round 1.

I actually think this years class has some exciting arms. I think Spencer Rattler and Malik Willis have huge upsides. If they progress this season they could end up being the top 2 picks. Another QB prospect I like is Desmond Ridder. As an athlete Ridder reminds me of Daniel Jones. Plus from the limited highlights I've seen of Ridder he appears to be advanced going through his progressions.
.  
Go Terps : 5/10/2021 10:51 pm : link
The Giants have a young, paper-thin offensive line that lacks any standout players. They have a quarterback with no pocket presence. They have an offensive coordinator that wants to keep the quarterback in the pocket.

That's a recipe for drafting in the top ten. I think the Bears will also be drafting in the top ten. That will likely be enough to get a top quarterback prospect.

And here's the key: if they're smart they'll be able to draft a quarterback according what Judge wants in a quarterback. Not Mara, not Gettleman, not Accorsi. Judge is the talent in the building - let him draft his quarterback and I'm confident we'll be in business shortly after.
I just wanted to add  
Jay on the Island : 5/10/2021 10:55 pm : link
That I think that Daniel Jones takes a big step forward this season with an improved supporting cast. Daniel Jones is going into his second year in Jason Garrett's scheme which is huge for his development.

Last year he was learning a new offense on the fly with no practice time prior to training camp. Now that he is more comfortable in the offense things will slow down for him. The upgrade in talent at WR and TE will have a profound impact on his performance as well.

Golladay and Rudolph are two safety nets that Daniel Jones has desperately needed. Ross, Toney, and Pettis bring significant speed to the offense.
Daniel Jones  
SleepyOwl : 5/10/2021 10:59 pm : link
Will have a very very good year. The Giants will make the playoffs and then we can see what he’s really made of.
RE: Brick  
shocktheworld : 5/10/2021 11:09 pm : link
In comment 15260242 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Hope isn't a strategy, but I should have some faith? I just want to make sure I got that right.

You know what impacts my ability to enjoy being a fan? Shitty football.

I agree that hope isn't a strategy. And I don't have faith in anyone that hasn't earned it.


Terps actually nails it here…. Shitty football has undoubtedly affected my enjoyment of the NFL in our recent slump…just glad to see we’re finally pulling up from the nosedive…
RE: I've seen a few posters recently call next years draft  
bw in dc : 5/10/2021 11:31 pm : link
In comment 15260267 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
a weak QB draft. As history has shown we have no idea how QB classes will develop over the next year. The Mahomes and Watson draft was considered a weak class.



I wouldn't call it weak but right now it's not as impressive as some recent classes.

Now, I do agree it still needs to play out, but at this time it's hard to make a case for this being an elite class. Elite meaning, to me, guys who have multiple "plus" attributes - i.e. size, arm, mobility, speed, etc.

bw  
Go Terps : 5/10/2021 11:37 pm : link
I actually like Rattler at this admittedly very early stage.
RE: bw  
bw in dc : 5/10/2021 11:50 pm : link
In comment 15260286 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I actually like Rattler at this admittedly very early stage.


Yeah, Rattler was a big time recruit and the top dual threat QB in the 2019 class. He isn't the biggest guy, but he certainly has high level arm talent and he's under the tutelage of Riley, a true QB guru. Which is turning out to be pretty positive marker come draft time.

But he's definitely in the mix of the QBs to keep an eye on...
RE: RE: I've seen a few posters recently call next years draft  
Jay on the Island : 5/10/2021 11:51 pm : link
In comment 15260282 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15260267 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


a weak QB draft. As history has shown we have no idea how QB classes will develop over the next year. The Mahomes and Watson draft was considered a weak class.





I wouldn't call it weak but right now it's not as impressive as some recent classes.

Now, I do agree it still needs to play out, but at this time it's hard to make a case for this being an elite class. Elite meaning, to me, guys who have multiple "plus" attributes - i.e. size, arm, mobility, speed, etc.

Malik Willis has several “plus” attributes including arm strength, mobility, and speed. Willis has the strongest arm since Josh Allen.
RE: bw  
Jay on the Island : 5/10/2021 11:53 pm : link
In comment 15260286 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I actually like Rattler at this admittedly very early stage.

IMO he’s the favorite to be the #1 pick next year.
RE: Perfect world  
81_Great_Dane : 5/11/2021 12:05 am : link
In comment 15260209 Payasdaddy said:
Quote:
Jones shows top 10 potential, bears suck and we package that pick for. Bunch of 2022 and 23 picks
Or we get a nice blue chipper in a hopefully deep draft
My real hope is that in rd 3 we are getting 2 round talent because draft so deep
And first 32 picks ( since we draft 32) will seem like top 20 picks
It'd be great, but very lucky, to be able to essentially repeat what happened this year, but with the Bears' pick: The Giants are on the clock with a big QB prospect still on the board, and a QB-hungry team is willing to pay a bundle to trade up. As you say, they could end up set up with picks for years to come. And if you get that QB-hungry team's 2023 first-rounder, well, then there's a good chance that team struggles and you could even do it again.
RE: I just wanted to add  
eric2425ny : 5/11/2021 12:30 am : link
In comment 15260272 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
That I think that Daniel Jones takes a big step forward this season with an improved supporting cast. Daniel Jones is going into his second year in Jason Garrett's scheme which is huge for his development.

Last year he was learning a new offense on the fly with no practice time prior to training camp. Now that he is more comfortable in the offense things will slow down for him. The upgrade in talent at WR and TE will have a profound impact on his performance as well.

Golladay and Rudolph are two safety nets that Daniel Jones has desperately needed. Ross, Toney, and Pettis bring significant speed to the offense.


Good posts Jay, agree with you. Every year QB’s pop up out of nowhere in college. If Jones isn’t the guy we have the ammo to get another one. The key is the Giants are getting better and seemingly on the right track with Judge.
good posts Bricktop and TLong  
Victor in CT : 5/11/2021 7:34 am : link
.........
Hope...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/11/2021 7:56 am : link
...IS a strategy.

We're fans. We can have hope or we can have no hope...
...in so much as we can have a strategy, Hope is about the extent of our possible contribution.
RE: With  
HomerJones45 : 5/11/2021 8:01 am : link
In comment 15260231 jtfuoco said:
Quote:
What Jones has to work with now this is it. There will be no more excuses and I think they will go after his replacement with a draft pick the veteran QB sounds appealing but with all the cash dealt out this year cap wise this team will be limited.
Exactly. OP is correct also.
Daniel Jones doesn't have to become a  
M.S. : 5/11/2021 8:20 am : link

But he needs to step up to the "consistently competent" level for this franchise to go anywhere.

And if he can't, then the #6 selection of the 2019 Draft will have set the Giants franchise back at least 5 years.
RE: Daniel Jones doesn't have to become a  
M.S. : 5/11/2021 8:21 am : link
In comment 15260336 M.S. said:
Quote:

But he needs to step up to the "consistently competent" level for this franchise to go anywhere.

And if he can't, then the #6 selection of the 2019 Draft will have set the Giants franchise back at least 5 years.

Daniel Jones doesn't have to become a "great QB
But he needs to step up to the "consistently competent" level for this franchise to go anywhere.

And if he can't, then the #6 selection of the 2019 Draft will have set the Giants franchise back at least 5 years.
Agree if he shows he belongs as QB  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/11/2021 8:26 am : link
Solid roster with relatively young talent at all position groups, manageable cap with not many terrible contracts left and a nice arsenal of picks for next year.

The Giants have to determine
1. Jones is good enough to win the division with a very good team around him across the board but unlikely to expect much in a playoff run.
2. Jones is the reason the team won't win the division with a very good team.
3. Definite conviction is has the ability to win both division and a championship with a very good team (hardest to determine)

If Jones is number 2 they will aggressively make a move next offseason if they see a upgrade. Number 1 is where many teams have found themselves and the Giants may also be in this category. The problem with 1 is that is not always definitive which is why some teams stay with that QB for quite some time.

I think Jones gets two more seasons  
JonC : 5/11/2021 8:29 am : link
to prove he's the QB. Giants will add two talents in the first round next year, and at least one of those picks is likely to be top 10. No rushing to draft a QB in '22 unless he's the right QB, another mistake takes us in the second half of the friggin decade with no end in sight.
With all the weapons Jones has now  
jsuds : 5/11/2021 9:35 am : link
He won't need two seasons to prove it.
The Giants have improved the roster dramatically
and he has enough talent around him now to succeed.
I'm betting he will.

RE: Agree if he shows he belongs as QB  
GMen72 : 5/11/2021 9:43 am : link
In comment 15260338 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Solid roster with relatively young talent at all position groups, manageable cap with not many terrible contracts left and a nice arsenal of picks for next year.

The Giants have to determine
1. Jones is good enough to win the division with a very good team around him across the board but unlikely to expect much in a playoff run.
2. Jones is the reason the team won't win the division with a very good team.
3. Definite conviction is has the ability to win both division and a championship with a very good team (hardest to determine)

If Jones is number 2 they will aggressively make a move next offseason if they see a upgrade. Number 1 is where many teams have found themselves and the Giants may also be in this category. The problem with 1 is that is not always definitive which is why some teams stay with that QB for quite some time.


Here's the bigger issue...DJ is making $8-10 mil a year right now. $18-20 mil on a 5th year option and, even if just above average, $30-35 mil in year 6, and beyond. So, even if next years team is good with him, can the team stay relevant as his salary quadruples in 2 years. Paying DJ means other players have to go and he has to be good enough to justify the talent loss his salary will create.
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