for the future with the young talent we have now plus 7 picks in the first 4 rounds next year (including two 1st’s). Gives us the chance to move up for just about any player or stay put and build up even more depth.
And worst case, Jones has a bad season and we can package up some picks to move up and select the next QB. Keep in mind even if Jones has a crappy third year and we draft another QB it’s not really cost ineffective to keep Jones for year 4 and let him compete with the new guy. He’s still on a rookie scale deal.
Exciting time to be a Giants fan.
Or we get a nice blue chipper in a hopefully deep draft
My real hope is that in rd 3 we are getting 2 round talent because draft so deep
And first 32 picks ( since we draft 32) will seem like top 20 picks
Not sure why fans were speculating that the Bears pick. Might be a top 10 or even 5 pick, when trade was announced.
They made the playoffs last season and Dalton is an upgrade over Trubisky. Even Fields might be.
Would be great if those fans are correct, but top 20 pick seems just as likely, still a good trade.
That said, the Giants will be able to move way up if needed for a Blue Chipper or consider (2) very attractive additions in 2022.
In the weaker (so they say) 2021 draft, consider what the Giants could have done with, say, picks 13 & 23?
These guys were drafted between 13 & 23
- Slater
- Vera-Tucker
- Jones
- Collins
- Leatherwood
- Phillips
- Davis
- Toney
- Paye
- Farley
- Darrisaw
Go Danny Go!
After that game, DJ went five games without throwing an INT (and then, in the season finale, threw only that can only be described as an "Engram") and lost fumbles only against the Cardinals when he was clearly injured and a sitting duck in the pocket.
I believe the Giants went 4-2 during those final six games that he started. And that's with the pretty terrible group of 'weapons' he had around him.
I hope the 2020 TB game - and Garrett's blunt comments to DJ after that game - will always be seen as the turning point for a QB who then went on to win a super bowl for the Giants.
Isn't chasing the mistake the bigger hindrance? In the two drafts after we picked Jones we had the opportunity to pick both Herbert and Fields without so much as a trade up.
The opportunities to pivot of you don't like the QB you drafted are there - college football is producing better quarterbacks at a higher number than in the past.
The sin is drafting the wrong guy and stubbornly hoping he becomes the right guy. That's what sets you back. "Giving" Jones years regardless of performance... that's the kind of strategy that really tests whether being a fan is even worth it.
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to prove he's the QB. Giants will add two talents in the first round next year, and at least one of those picks is likely to be top 10. No rushing to draft a QB in '22 unless he's the right QB, another mistake takes us in the second half of the friggin decade with no end in sight.
Isn't chasing the mistake the bigger hindrance? In the two drafts after we picked Jones we had the opportunity to pick both Herbert and Fields without so much as a trade up.
The opportunities to pivot of you don't like the QB you drafted are there - college football is producing better quarterbacks at a higher number than in the past.
The sin is drafting the wrong guy and stubbornly hoping he becomes the right guy. That's what sets you back. "Giving" Jones years regardless of performance... that's the kind of strategy that really tests whether being a fan is even worth it.
How long did they stick with Dave Brown? If that was the case the Giants would have zero fans
It is what it is.
I would prefer an exceptional or terrible 2021 for Jones to make the call easy.
We are not going to get that.
What I think happens.
Some great games.
Some real stinkers.
Mostly average.
I want better than that, it isn't terribly realistic because I just described most NFL QBs this upcoming season. Everyone wants the next Mahomes.
Reality is that if a team finds a QB they like physically with traits they are looking for, combined with intangibles, that QB is going to get a real chance to develop.
Whether you like it or not, that is the boat we are in.
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to prove he's the QB. Giants will add two talents in the first round next year, and at least one of those picks is likely to be top 10. No rushing to draft a QB in '22 unless he's the right QB, another mistake takes us in the second half of the friggin decade with no end in sight.
Isn't chasing the mistake the bigger hindrance? In the two drafts after we picked Jones we had the opportunity to pick both Herbert and Fields without so much as a trade up.
The opportunities to pivot of you don't like the QB you drafted are there - college football is producing better quarterbacks at a higher number than in the past.
The sin is drafting the wrong guy and stubbornly hoping he becomes the right guy. That's what sets you back. "Giving" Jones years regardless of performance... that's the kind of strategy that really tests whether being a fan is even worth it.
I think the Giants drafted the wrong guy, but I don't think they pull the plug on him after one more season. They're invested in the kid just like the fans are. I'd wager some in the building think he's Eli 2.0 with wheels, and he's going to get every opportunity to succeed.
"It's 10:30AM. Have you shit on Daniel Jones, yet?"
The opportunities to pivot if you don't like the QB you drafted are there - college football is producing better quarterbacks at a higher number than in the past.
The part you may be missing is that the Giants appear to like the QB that they drafted.
Exaggeration seems to be in play often though.
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When you say "set the bar artificially high"...what does that mean?
A point a person feels he cannot reach.
I think even his worst detractors have been reasonable in their expectations. No one is requiring he throw 40 TDs and 5 picks...even his biggest fans don't think he's capable of that (which tells you something).
Asking that he throws around 30 TDs, cuts down the turnovers, and leads the offense to 25+ points per game...that seems artificially high to you?
Nobody wants either the OL or QB to fail so as to win arguments on a football site. But I for one, as a long time fan of this truly great franchise, will rage with disgust if poor performance is considered satisfactory and further bad decisions are made to justify prior bad decisions. My apologies in advance for my future venting as BBI is a site that I have grown to value for the information, insight and learned opinions on my beloved team.
If Jones gets this team to the playoffs in 2021 he should be extended to a fifth year. If not, a new quarterback should be either drafted or acquired in 2022 to compete with Jones for the quarterback job in 2022. Under no circumstances should Jones be given a second contract unless he is beating good teams and winning playoff game(s) in 2022.
Well, you know I would've not drafted Jones and waited for a better QB prospect a year later, which would've been Herbert. I think Jones can be an above average NFL QB, and they've got to surround him with the talent that creates the synergy to achieve it. On paper now, they've increased the talent around him. Might need more on the OL and SB needs to demonstrate he's healthy and his old self. But, I think they'll decide they need 2021 and 2022 to prove out their design before moving on, because of how important continuity is in the game of football, and because they're invested in these young men.
Malik Willis has several “plus” attributes including arm strength, mobility, and speed. Willis has the strongest arm since Josh Allen.
You could be right. I'm looking forward to checking our some video and watching him play next year.
Whatever those numbers look like, I'm good with them.
Exaggeration seems to be in play often though.
Two of the last three MVPs were second year quarterbacks. Josh Allen was a legit MVP candidate in year 3. Justin Herbert had a fantastic rookie season despite having every excuse not to.
It's ok to want better things for the Giants. It doesn't have to be a struggle to get to 7 wins and 20 points per game.
Daniel Jones doesn't have to become a "great QB
But he needs to step up to the "consistently competent" level for this franchise to go anywhere.
And if he can't, then the #6 selection of the 2019 Draft will have set the Giants franchise back at least 5 years.
Think about what you wrote - Jones basically just needs to be "consistently competent". And that will hopefully be good enough.
I know you would prefer him to be great - IMV, he needs to be very good as the 6th pick - but the bar has been adjusted so low for Jones that it's stunning.
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college football really producing better QB's now? You still have a fair amount of busts on highly drafted guys and the amount of "old school" franchise QB's still outnumbers the younger ones.
Exaggeration seems to be in play often though.
Two of the last three MVPs were second year quarterbacks. Josh Allen was a legit MVP candidate in year 3. Justin Herbert had a fantastic rookie season despite having every excuse not to.
It's ok to want better things for the Giants. It doesn't have to be a struggle to get to 7 wins and 20 points per game.
How does that equate to college football producing great QB's at a higher rate?? Prior to that, you had years of Rodgers, Mannings, Ben, Brady, Brees, etc. dominating play.
You still have guys out there who are young that will fail and fail quickly. Rosen and Haskins. Look at the playoff teams from last year and you still had more QB's from pre-2015 than ones from after then.
Plenty of high 1st round QB's have busted over the past ten years. That's what's stunning. For them to actually become average to above avg. NFL QB's is the anomaly, really. There are 32 starting NFL QB's in the league. That's it. How many top 10 QB's have been drafted in the past 10 years, and how many of those are among the 32?
If Jones becomes an average starting NFL QB for several years, he will have beaten the odds.
There were 22 quarterbacks drafted in the first round between the 2009 and 2016 seasons and all of them came with hopes that they’d lead their teams for years to come.
Some of those players had extended runs with their original teams, but, as Field Yates of ESPN notes, none of them are expected to be with the team that drafted them when the 2021 season gets underway. Carson Wentz was the last of the 22 set to be with the same team, but Thursday’s word that the Colts and Eagles have agreed on a trade means it will be a clean sweep as long as that trade and the Matthew Stafford–Jared Goff swap go through as planned.
Stafford was the first overall pick in 2009 and had the longest run with his original team. The full list of the quarterbacks is below:
2009: Stafford, Lions; Mark Sanchez, Jets; Josh Freeman, Buccaneers.
2010: Sam Bradford, Rams; Tim Tebow, Broncos.
2011: Cam Newton, Panthers; Jake Locker, Titans; Blaine Gabbert, Jaguars; Christian Ponder, Vikings.
2012: Andrew Luck, Colts; Robert Griffin III, Washington; Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins; Brandon Weeden, Browns.
2013: EJ Manuel, Bills.
2014: Blake Bortles, Jaguars; Johnny Manziel, Browns; Teddy Bridgewater, Vikings.
2015: Jameis Winston, Buccaneers; Marcus Mariota, Titans.
2016: Goff, Rams; Wentz, Eagles; Paxton Lynch, Broncos.
There were three quarterbacks taken in the first round of the 2017 draft. Two of them — Mitch Trubisky and Deshaun Watson — may be with different teams next year, but it seems unlikely that Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs will be splitting up in the near future.
No QBs drafted in first round from 2009-16 are set to be on original team in 2021 - ( New Window )
Plenty of high 1st round QB's have busted over the past ten years. That's what's stunning. For them to actually become average to above avg. NFL QB's is the anomaly, really. There are 32 starting NFL QB's in the league. That's it. How many top 10 QB's have been drafted in the past 10 years, and how many of those are among the 32?
If Jones becomes an average starting NFL QB for several years, he will have beaten the odds.
So now we are hoping Jones becomes an average starting NFL QB??
Weren't you in Nashville for the draft in 2019? When yo heard Jones's name that was your first thought? 'Please NFL Gods - let Daniel Jones become an average NFL QB...'
Rewind to when Eli was picked (traded for) as the top QB. Were you hoping Eli would become an "average starting NFL QB"??
JFC.
Look, I agree it's very difficult to project college QBs to the pros. But Gettleman is paid millions of dollars to find the right QB and buck any of the trends you cited. If Jones fails, do you think Gettleman is going to waltz into Mara's office citing your stats? And ask for forgiveness?
JFC. These low expectations are just embarrassing at this point...
BTW, what were your expectations when we picked Barkley? Just be an average NFL RB?
After that game, DJ went five games without throwing an INT (and then, in the season finale, threw only that can only be described as an "Engram") and lost fumbles only against the Cardinals when he was clearly injured and a sitting duck in the pocket.
I believe the Giants went 4-2 during those final six games that he started. And that's with the pretty terrible group of 'weapons' he had around him.
I hope the 2020 TB game - and Garrett's blunt comments to DJ after that game - will always be seen as the turning point for a QB who then went on to win a super bowl for the Giants.
Exactly the way I feel as well. He will get two years and I think he will do well.
Eli Manning never set the stat sheet on fire compared to his contemporaries, other than INT's. He only threw for 30 TD's 3 times in 16 years. But he led the team to a lot of wins for a long time. I hope Jones does the same.
My guess is that JJ's not going to be too patient w/ JG this year and if necessary, JG will be respectfully asked to either adapt, leave or hand over play calling to someone like Kitchens.
My gut feeling is that won't be necessary. I think JG was dealing with a really bad hand last year and his play calling will be pretty drastically different/better this year.
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Is there a history of 6th overall picks that Jones needs to live up to or something?
Plenty of high 1st round QB's have busted over the past ten years. That's what's stunning. For them to actually become average to above avg. NFL QB's is the anomaly, really. There are 32 starting NFL QB's in the league. That's it. How many top 10 QB's have been drafted in the past 10 years, and how many of those are among the 32?
If Jones becomes an average starting NFL QB for several years, he will have beaten the odds.
So now we are hoping Jones becomes an average starting NFL QB??
Weren't you in Nashville for the draft in 2019? When yo heard Jones's name that was your first thought? 'Please NFL Gods - let Daniel Jones become an average NFL QB...'
Rewind to when Eli was picked (traded for) as the top QB. Were you hoping Eli would become an "average starting NFL QB"??
JFC.
Look, I agree it's very difficult to project college QBs to the pros. But Gettleman is paid millions of dollars to find the right QB and buck any of the trends you cited. If Jones fails, do you think Gettleman is going to waltz into Mara's office citing your stats? And ask for forgiveness?
JFC. These low expectations are just embarrassing at this point...
BTW, what were your expectations when we picked Barkley? Just be an average NFL RB?
JFC, can you stop twisting Britt’s words? Britt did not say that that he was hoping that Jones becomes average. Britt said IF he becomes average he beats the odds as so many have failed as evidenced by the names listed above.
A little reading comprehension can be helpful but I have a feeling you knew what he meant. You just took another opportunity to shit on Jones and/or criticize those who haven’t given up on him yet.
"It's 10:30AM. Have you shit on Daniel Jones, yet?"
Lol. good 1
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Is there a history of 6th overall picks that Jones needs to live up to or something?
Plenty of high 1st round QB's have busted over the past ten years. That's what's stunning. For them to actually become average to above avg. NFL QB's is the anomaly, really. There are 32 starting NFL QB's in the league. That's it. How many top 10 QB's have been drafted in the past 10 years, and how many of those are among the 32?
If Jones becomes an average starting NFL QB for several years, he will have beaten the odds.
So now we are hoping Jones becomes an average starting NFL QB??
Weren't you in Nashville for the draft in 2019? When yo heard Jones's name that was your first thought? 'Please NFL Gods - let Daniel Jones become an average NFL QB...'
Rewind to when Eli was picked (traded for) as the top QB. Were you hoping Eli would become an "average starting NFL QB"??
JFC.
Look, I agree it's very difficult to project college QBs to the pros. But Gettleman is paid millions of dollars to find the right QB and buck any of the trends you cited. If Jones fails, do you think Gettleman is going to waltz into Mara's office citing your stats? And ask for forgiveness?
JFC. These low expectations are just embarrassing at this point...
BTW, what were your expectations when we picked Barkley? Just be an average NFL RB?
Do you want to continually draft them in round 1 until they find one that immediately hits regardless of them talent around them or the circumstances of a particular season?
That doesn't seem intelligent or wise. Jones was my remote throw pick. Still, giving him next year seems wise. I could see giving him another year after if he shows reasonable growth but is not in the MVP talks yet depending on what is available.
If we were close friends.
BW, Terps, chill the fuck out.
THIS is my biggest criticism. I think they can win with Jones, but he will NEVER be in Herbert's league (if his trajectory continues).
THIS is my biggest criticism. I think they can win with Jones, but he will NEVER be in Herbert's league (if his trajectory continues).
It should be noted that the fans had largely run out of patience in 2019 and wanted Eli Manning out, really at what felt like any cost. Had the Giants just let Eli Manning play out his contract and ride off into the sunset, Herbert would be a Giant right now. But patience was not a virtue in 2019.
And a bit more disturbing is that the Giants Front Office similarly met expectations with that pick as well.
Obviously DJ is a polarizing topic right now, but that is how it comes off above.
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based on how the QB scouting went in 2019, it was pretty clear Gettleman wanted to draft Herbert. When he went back to school, they pivoted and took Schumer's guy (Jones), who Gettleman ONLY saw at the Senior Bowl. If you want to criticize their process, THIS deserves criticism. It doesn't mean Jones can't become a top notch QB. Taking your "back up choice", is not a good recipe for success.
THIS is my biggest criticism. I think they can win with Jones, but he will NEVER be in Herbert's league (if his trajectory continues).
It should be noted that the fans had largely run out of patience in 2019 and wanted Eli Manning out, really at what felt like any cost. Had the Giants just let Eli Manning play out his contract and ride off into the sunset, Herbert would be a Giant right now. But patience was not a virtue in 2019.
The fans drove the Giants Front Office to make a suboptimal decision on both Manning and finding the next QB?
I don't think so unless that was sarcasm.
He will either lead this team to playoff football this year or he won't. And if anything short of that is acceptable to the ownership, management and coaching staff, then the Giants are headed for the NFL graveyard of broken franchises where abandoning hope will be the pre-requisite of all fans who enter...
May Mara have the courage to change the things he can...
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based on how the QB scouting went in 2019, it was pretty clear Gettleman wanted to draft Herbert. When he went back to school, they pivoted and took Schumer's guy (Jones), who Gettleman ONLY saw at the Senior Bowl. If you want to criticize their process, THIS deserves criticism. It doesn't mean Jones can't become a top notch QB. Taking your "back up choice", is not a good recipe for success.
THIS is my biggest criticism. I think they can win with Jones, but he will NEVER be in Herbert's league (if his trajectory continues).
It should be noted that the fans had largely run out of patience in 2019 and wanted Eli Manning out, really at what felt like any cost. Had the Giants just let Eli Manning play out his contract and ride off into the sunset, Herbert would be a Giant right now. But patience was not a virtue in 2019.
Or had the Giants done the right thing and moved on from Eli in 2018, Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen could be the quarterback. Or if they'd picked Darnold and he flopped in the same way he did with the Jets, any of Herbert/Lawrence/Wilson/Lance/Fields would be the quarterback.
There were numerous routes the Giants could have chosen with regards to the transition from Eli. The route they chose speaks for itself.
JFC, can you stop twisting Britt’s words? Britt did not say that that he was hoping that Jones becomes average. Britt said IF he becomes average he beats the odds as so many have failed as evidenced by the names listed above.
A little reading comprehension can be helpful but I have a feeling you knew what he meant. You just took another opportunity to shit on Jones and/or criticize those who haven’t given up on him yet.
What I actually did was take another opportunity to illustrate how many continue to reframe expectations of Jones. Because Britt wrote:
If Jones becomes an average starting NFL QB for several years, he will have beaten the odds.
What's the motive behind even writing that?
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based on how the QB scouting went in 2019, it was pretty clear Gettleman wanted to draft Herbert. When he went back to school, they pivoted and took Schumer's guy (Jones), who Gettleman ONLY saw at the Senior Bowl. If you want to criticize their process, THIS deserves criticism. It doesn't mean Jones can't become a top notch QB. Taking your "back up choice", is not a good recipe for success.
THIS is my biggest criticism. I think they can win with Jones, but he will NEVER be in Herbert's league (if his trajectory continues).
It should be noted that the fans had largely run out of patience in 2019 and wanted Eli Manning out, really at what felt like any cost. Had the Giants just let Eli Manning play out his contract and ride off into the sunset, Herbert would be a Giant right now. But patience was not a virtue in 2019.
Interesting. Prolly right.
Unfortunately, I think patience is never a virtue for some.
I wouldn't doubt that some of the same people who want DJ gone (after his 2nd season) were also, at some point before or during 2007 (Eli's 4th season), looking at the QBs coming out in the '08 draft.
(for those looking to disagree, I'm not saying the Giants are going to win the SB this year. That's next year).
And a bit more disturbing is that the Giants Front Office similarly met expectations with that pick as well.
Obviously DJ is a polarizing topic right now, but that is how it comes off above.
Exactly.
If Jones isn't very good - damn. But if he's average we'll take that because he bucked a recurring trend...
But if they win 6 or 7 are we still going to be in the mood to "give" Jones 2022?
But if they win 6 or 7 are we still going to be in the mood to "give" Jones 2022?
No, he needs to be replaced if we are that far under .500
Do you want to continually draft them in round 1 until they find one that immediately hits regardless of them talent around them or the circumstances of a particular season?
That doesn't seem intelligent or wise. Jones was my remote throw pick. Still, giving him next year seems wise. I could see giving him another year after if he shows reasonable growth but is not in the MVP talks yet depending on what is available.
If we were close friends.
BW, Terps, chill the fuck out.
I am well aware of the hit rate on QBs drafted high. It's a very hard thing to try and project college play to the NFL. But - and I mean this with all due respect - so what?
I expect the GM to get it right. To be on the right side of the hit rate %. Is that really me being unreasonable?
I'm just sensing this growing theme as Jones enters critical year three - 'please just be decent, and we'll take that as good enough.'
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Are you aware of the failure rate on QBs drafted, even in round one? How many of them become elite?
Do you want to continually draft them in round 1 until they find one that immediately hits regardless of them talent around them or the circumstances of a particular season?
That doesn't seem intelligent or wise. Jones was my remote throw pick. Still, giving him next year seems wise. I could see giving him another year after if he shows reasonable growth but is not in the MVP talks yet depending on what is available.
If we were close friends.
BW, Terps, chill the fuck out.
I am well aware of the hit rate on QBs drafted high. It's a very hard thing to try and project college play to the NFL. But - and I mean this with all due respect - so what?
I expect the GM to get it right. To be on the right side of the hit rate %. Is that really me being unreasonable?
I'm just sensing this growing theme as Jones enters critical year three - 'please just be decent, and we'll take that as good enough.'
You can win with a less than decent quarterback (Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Carson Wentz/Nick Foles), but I think that Jones should at least be decent. He doesn't have to be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning; I'd be satisfied if he became Eli's level.