for the future with the young talent we have now plus 7 picks in the first 4 rounds next year (including two 1st’s). Gives us the chance to move up for just about any player or stay put and build up even more depth.
And worst case, Jones has a bad season and we can package up some picks to move up and select the next QB. Keep in mind even if Jones has a crappy third year and we draft another QB it’s not really cost ineffective to keep Jones for year 4 and let him compete with the new guy. He’s still on a rookie scale deal.
Exciting time to be a Giants fan.
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Jones leads then to 10-11 wins in 2021 and I won't have a leg to stand on.
But if they win 6 or 7 are we still going to be in the mood to "give" Jones 2022?
No, he needs to be replaced if we are that far under .500
Most certainly. Obviously can be a scenario where Jones is one of the overachievers and other units of the team caused too many losses, but that would be unusual.
Jones will be here a while. I suggest some of you get used to it. IF the Giants see a palatable path or solution that offers up a better option at QB, they will get that QB. The better Jones looks these next 2 years would mean it's less and less likely that QB is in the Giants crosshairs.
Just fucking watch this season and shut your pie-holes. LEt it play out. Christ.
But if they win 6 or 7 are we still going to be in the mood to "give" Jones 2022?
JonC has been stating this for many months - Jones will very likely get the next two years to showcase if he's the solution.
Which suggest Judge has also purchased Jones stock for the long term...
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Jones leads then to 10-11 wins in 2021 and I won't have a leg to stand on.
But if they win 6 or 7 are we still going to be in the mood to "give" Jones 2022?
JonC has been stating this for many months - Jones will very likely get the next two years to showcase if he's the solution.
Which suggest Judge has also purchased Jones stock for the long term...
That's gonna be a real tough sell if they go 7-10 and are sitting there with two high first rounders.
I wouldn't categorize it as weak. It's just not as prolific as recent classes. Some good players, but most of them are undersized (6' to 6'2") and new to show much more. IMV.
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Are you aware of the failure rate on QBs drafted, even in round one? How many of them become elite?
Do you want to continually draft them in round 1 until they find one that immediately hits regardless of them talent around them or the circumstances of a particular season?
That doesn't seem intelligent or wise. Jones was my remote throw pick. Still, giving him next year seems wise. I could see giving him another year after if he shows reasonable growth but is not in the MVP talks yet depending on what is available.
If we were close friends.
BW, Terps, chill the fuck out.
I am well aware of the hit rate on QBs drafted high. It's a very hard thing to try and project college play to the NFL. But - and I mean this with all due respect - so what?
I expect the GM to get it right. To be on the right side of the hit rate %. Is that really me being unreasonable?
I'm just sensing this growing theme as Jones enters critical year three - 'please just be decent, and we'll take that as good enough.'
I believe Jones has a number of things that Judge finds attractive because of the culture he trying to build. BW, I think you are going to be shocked how well he does. Just as much as their is a need for a GM/HC partnership that works, you need HC/QB.
Judge seems to have a strong desire to succeed, he isn't going to stick with Jones if nothing is there. Let's watch, I know you have enough self awareness to realize that you might be wrong even if statistically, the odds are with you on Jones.
What else is there?
Continually complain about something you have no control over?
No. Disappointing is a personal measure against expectations.
However, the expectation is a QB at 6 should be better than a QB at 17. Further, I don't think its at all unreasonable to think the expectation of both should be that they will be very good QBs.
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In comment 15260660 Go Terps said:
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Jones leads then to 10-11 wins in 2021 and I won't have a leg to stand on.
But if they win 6 or 7 are we still going to be in the mood to "give" Jones 2022?
JonC has been stating this for many months - Jones will very likely get the next two years to showcase if he's the solution.
Which suggest Judge has also purchased Jones stock for the long term...
That's gonna be a real tough sell if they go 7-10 and are sitting there with two high first rounders.
Yea this is bullshit. You're not just going to cut the guy if he struggles but the Giants won't blindly give anyone two more years if he doesn't earn it. Again, this just more manufactured fear around here. JonC or even Judge himself doesn't know how long Jones has at this very moment. The guy could completely ruin his career in the blink of an eye. Or he could play well but not dominate. Giants will make an educated decision.
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In comment 15260604 Thegratefulhead said:
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Are you aware of the failure rate on QBs drafted, even in round one? How many of them become elite?
Do you want to continually draft them in round 1 until they find one that immediately hits regardless of them talent around them or the circumstances of a particular season?
That doesn't seem intelligent or wise. Jones was my remote throw pick. Still, giving him next year seems wise. I could see giving him another year after if he shows reasonable growth but is not in the MVP talks yet depending on what is available.
If we were close friends.
BW, Terps, chill the fuck out.
I am well aware of the hit rate on QBs drafted high. It's a very hard thing to try and project college play to the NFL. But - and I mean this with all due respect - so what?
I expect the GM to get it right. To be on the right side of the hit rate %. Is that really me being unreasonable?
I'm just sensing this growing theme as Jones enters critical year three - 'please just be decent, and we'll take that as good enough.'
I want the next Mahomes too. Most of the GMs are wrong most of time on QBs. It is really hard to figure who can handle a NFL locker room, huddle, media pressure, has the work ethic once made rich ect ect ect. You get it, I know you do.
I believe Jones has a number of things that Judge finds attractive because of the culture he trying to build. BW, I think you are going to be shocked how well he does. Just as much as their is a need for a GM/HC partnership that works, you need HC/QB.
Judge seems to have a strong desire to succeed, he isn't going to stick with Jones if nothing is there. Let's watch, I know you have enough self awareness to realize that you might be wrong even if statistically, the odds are with you on Jones.
What else is there?
Continually complain about something you have no control over?
Maybe that's why people complain, because they have no control over it? I've complained about the pass rush as the day is long on this forum.
Yes, that is something like what I was referring to although unusual.
We know he is above average on throws downfield into tight windows, you only have to look at Golloday highlights to se how that might play. People like to talk about force multipliers.
What happens to the running game if the defense has to honor the deep passing game?
What happens to passing efficiency if play action works?
Does it help to have TE that can block and has sure hands?
There are real reasons to be optimistic. It feels different to me.
But if they win 6 or 7 are we still going to be in the mood to "give" Jones 2022?
If Jones struggles and they only win 6-7 wins then the overwhelming majority of this board will be with you including myself. I’m sorry but I don’t buy that the Giants are going to give Jones two more years. Judge is not going to tolerate turnovers and struggles from the QB position.
I think that the main reason the Giants targeted acquiring additional picks in 2022 was to protect them in the event that Jones does not progress. They now have plenty of ammo to move up in the event that Jones struggles.
JonC has been stating this for many months - Jones will very likely get the next two years to showcase if he's the solution.
Which suggest Judge has also purchased Jones stock for the long term...
That's gonna be a real tough sell if they go 7-10 and are sitting there with two high first rounders.
Indeed.
On the other hand, while it's not quite apple to apple, there are a lot of the same cast of characters at One Giants Way who recently kept going to the well with Eli hoping for another magic run...
So it wouldn't surprise me if they keep going to the well with Jones hoping he finally breaks through.
I hope I'm dead wrong on this and Judge has a sell order on Jones set for 12/31/21 if Jones has an unimpressive year.
He finally has:
A.) legit NFL talent at the WR position
B.) stability in the coaching staff
C.) an improving OL
D.) a running game staring SB
E.) time to work with them and develop chemistry
Buckle up Giants fans - this offense is going to blow up next year.
The expression that illustrates more about who is uttering it than who it is supposedly referring to.
I think that's bullshit. What satisfaction do team skeptics get when their skeptical position is proven right? Mea culpas from those who criticized them? That doesn't happen -- if anything their critics just become more vocal.
I don't know, its just tiresome at this point. I realize this is a Giants forum and our record will likely be dictated by Jones' performance but holy shit, don't you guys want to talk about anything else?
IOW, you don't need Mahomes stats and wow plays if you bring home a title.
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Jones leads then to 10-11 wins in 2021 and I won't have a leg to stand on.
But if they win 6 or 7 are we still going to be in the mood to "give" Jones 2022?
If Jones struggles and they only win 6-7 wins then the overwhelming majority of this board will be with you including myself. I’m sorry but I don’t buy that the Giants are going to give Jones two more years. Judge is not going to tolerate turnovers and struggles from the QB position.
I think that the main reason the Giants targeted acquiring additional picks in 2022 was to protect them in the event that Jones does not progress. They now have plenty of ammo to move up in the event that Jones struggles.
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hope Jones fails just so they're somehow proven correct or to improve their perceived knowledge of the game and team.
I think that's bullshit. What satisfaction do team skeptics get when their skeptical position is proven right? Mea culpas from those who criticized them? That doesn't happen -- if anything their critics just become more vocal.
I know plenty of people that relish in sports misery, to think BBIers are above that is nonsense. They get the satisfaction of being right.
He finally has:
A.) legit NFL talent at the WR position
B.) stability in the coaching staff
C.) an improving OL
D.) a running game staring SB
E.) time to work with them and develop chemistry
Buckle up Giants fans - this offense is going to blow up next year.
Oh, please. You're just relieved we didn't draft Kyle Pitts...
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In comment 15260680 bw in dc said:
JonC has been stating this for many months - Jones will very likely get the next two years to showcase if he's the solution.
Which suggest Judge has also purchased Jones stock for the long term...
That's gonna be a real tough sell if they go 7-10 and are sitting there with two high first rounders.
Indeed.
On the other hand, while it's not quite apple to apple, there are a lot of the same cast of characters at One Giants Way who recently kept going to the well with Eli hoping for another magic run...
So it wouldn't surprise me if they keep going to the well with Jones hoping he finally breaks through.
I hope I'm dead wrong on this and Judge has a sell order on Jones set for 12/31/21 if Jones has an unimpressive year.
I've decided. It sucks. Fire your marketing department (hope the bw that evaluates them isn't the same one who expects to be credible when evaluating the Giants). Go back to Jints Central.
i'll also fully admit that every year about this time I get all excited to be a Giants fan again only to be let down by week 3 of the following season...
So there's that too.
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is going to have a monster year.
He finally has:
A.) legit NFL talent at the WR position
B.) stability in the coaching staff
C.) an improving OL
D.) a running game staring SB
E.) time to work with them and develop chemistry
Buckle up Giants fans - this offense is going to blow up next year.
Oh, please. You're just relieved we didn't draft Kyle Pitts...
I don't know about "monster" but I do feel like this is a more likely outcome than the one positing we put out feelers for tiny Bible Belt school players.
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In comment 15260207 Bricktop said:
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hope Jones fails just so they're somehow proven correct or to improve their perceived knowledge of the game and team.
I think that's bullshit. What satisfaction do team skeptics get when their skeptical position is proven right? Mea culpas from those who criticized them? That doesn't happen -- if anything their critics just become more vocal.
I know plenty of people that relish in sports misery, to think BBIers are above that is nonsense. They get the satisfaction of being right.
So does everyone else. You think if the Giants win 11 games that a whole bunch of posters aren't going to line up and say they called it, and how stupid be and I and others were?
Shit, every time a running back gets a new contract we get a thread saying "See? Running backs do have value". When Darnold flopped there was a ton of revelling from the Britts and FMICs of the world.
And that's fine. If you're right, you're right. Acting like Baghdad Bob for the Giants doesn't make anyone a better fan than the people that are critical.
I'm the type of person that wins a bet with a friend and tells them to keep the money, just buy me a beer next time we go out. I really don't care much about being right when it comes to sports outside of picking good enough players to win fantasy.
I'm the type of person that wins a bet with a friend and tells them to keep the money, just buy me a beer next time we go out. I really don't care much about being right when it comes to sports outside of picking good enough players to win fantasy.
I want Daniel Jones to win MVP and the Giants to go undefeated on the way to the title. That's what I want, and I'm sure what we all want.
But I find the fantasy "Why not us?" conversations to be horrendous.
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In comment 15260710 santacruzom said:
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In comment 15260207 Bricktop said:
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hope Jones fails just so they're somehow proven correct or to improve their perceived knowledge of the game and team.
I think that's bullshit. What satisfaction do team skeptics get when their skeptical position is proven right? Mea culpas from those who criticized them? That doesn't happen -- if anything their critics just become more vocal.
I know plenty of people that relish in sports misery, to think BBIers are above that is nonsense. They get the satisfaction of being right.
So does everyone else. You think if the Giants win 11 games that a whole bunch of posters aren't going to line up and say they called it, and how stupid be and I and others were?
Shit, every time a running back gets a new contract we get a thread saying "See? Running backs do have value". When Darnold flopped there was a ton of revelling from the Britts and FMICs of the world.
And that's fine. If you're right, you're right. Acting like Baghdad Bob for the Giants doesn't make anyone a better fan than the people that are critical.
Waves hand.
I promise you that if Jones stinks it up I will be begging for his replacement. By taking the position that he is being put into a position to succeed and expecting him to show results puts me in a position to reasonably bail if he fails to meet expectations.
My commentary on Darnold is almost exclusively reserved for posters who claimed not picking Darnold was a "fireable offense" and who have whined about the Barkley pick since 2018, as if picking Darnold would have us in a more favorable position.
I rarely, if ever delight in player's failing. My comments are almost always directed at the hot takes and ridiculous statements displayed on these pages daily.
My commentary on Darnold is almost exclusively reserved for posters who claimed not picking Darnold was a "fireable offense" and who have whined about the Barkley pick since 2018, as if picking Darnold would have us in a more favorable position.
I rarely, if ever delight in player's failing. My comments are almost always directed at the hot takes and ridiculous statements displayed on these pages daily.
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In comment 15260716 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15260710 santacruzom said:
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In comment 15260207 Bricktop said:
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hope Jones fails just so they're somehow proven correct or to improve their perceived knowledge of the game and team.
I think that's bullshit. What satisfaction do team skeptics get when their skeptical position is proven right? Mea culpas from those who criticized them? That doesn't happen -- if anything their critics just become more vocal.
I know plenty of people that relish in sports misery, to think BBIers are above that is nonsense. They get the satisfaction of being right.
So does everyone else. You think if the Giants win 11 games that a whole bunch of posters aren't going to line up and say they called it, and how stupid be and I and others were?
Shit, every time a running back gets a new contract we get a thread saying "See? Running backs do have value". When Darnold flopped there was a ton of revelling from the Britts and FMICs of the world.
And that's fine. If you're right, you're right. Acting like Baghdad Bob for the Giants doesn't make anyone a better fan than the people that are critical.
You can be critical of the Giants and not be treated like a pariah here.
Waves hand.
I promise you that if Jones stinks it up I will be begging for his replacement. By taking the position that he is being put into a position to succeed and expecting him to show results puts me in a position to reasonably bail if he fails to meet expectations.
These are almost all moot arguments. If Jones stinks it up almost everyone on this site will be begging for his replacement.
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In comment 15260728 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15260716 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15260710 santacruzom said:
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In comment 15260207 Bricktop said:
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hope Jones fails just so they're somehow proven correct or to improve their perceived knowledge of the game and team.
I think that's bullshit. What satisfaction do team skeptics get when their skeptical position is proven right? Mea culpas from those who criticized them? That doesn't happen -- if anything their critics just become more vocal.
I know plenty of people that relish in sports misery, to think BBIers are above that is nonsense. They get the satisfaction of being right.
So does everyone else. You think if the Giants win 11 games that a whole bunch of posters aren't going to line up and say they called it, and how stupid be and I and others were?
Shit, every time a running back gets a new contract we get a thread saying "See? Running backs do have value". When Darnold flopped there was a ton of revelling from the Britts and FMICs of the world.
And that's fine. If you're right, you're right. Acting like Baghdad Bob for the Giants doesn't make anyone a better fan than the people that are critical.
You can be critical of the Giants and not be treated like a pariah here.
Waves hand.
I promise you that if Jones stinks it up I will be begging for his replacement. By taking the position that he is being put into a position to succeed and expecting him to show results puts me in a position to reasonably bail if he fails to meet expectations.
These are almost all moot arguments. If Jones stinks it up almost everyone on this site will be begging for his replacement.
I don't know. They're not begging for it now. If they felt that way why weren't people clamoring for Fields to be the pick?
Why can't that be pointed out? Reveling in it? No. Counterpoint? Yes.
If you can't see that, I doubt you either ever will or you're just purposely obtuse.
Just like every day we get dissertations on how much Jones sucks.
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personally? No i won't but yeah there will be plenty of people that will. But isn't that what you should want to happen?
I'm the type of person that wins a bet with a friend and tells them to keep the money, just buy me a beer next time we go out. I really don't care much about being right when it comes to sports outside of picking good enough players to win fantasy.
I want Daniel Jones to win MVP and the Giants to go undefeated on the way to the title. That's what I want, and I'm sure what we all want.
But I find the fantasy "Why not us?" conversations to be horrendous.
I can't tell you what to do, but approaching sport without even a shred of mysticism absolutely baffles me. You know you have no control over any of it, right (I know you know this)?
We haven't been very good but wanting evidence to back up how you root is kinda bizarre to me especially in a league with this much turnover. Outside of the 4 or 5 teams with elite QB's the NFL is very much in play for any number of teams to ascend and make noise.
So yeah, why not us?
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In comment 15260716 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15260710 santacruzom said:
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In comment 15260207 Bricktop said:
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hope Jones fails just so they're somehow proven correct or to improve their perceived knowledge of the game and team.
I think that's bullshit. What satisfaction do team skeptics get when their skeptical position is proven right? Mea culpas from those who criticized them? That doesn't happen -- if anything their critics just become more vocal.
I know plenty of people that relish in sports misery, to think BBIers are above that is nonsense. They get the satisfaction of being right.
So does everyone else. You think if the Giants win 11 games that a whole bunch of posters aren't going to line up and say they called it, and how stupid be and I and others were?
Shit, every time a running back gets a new contract we get a thread saying "See? Running backs do have value". When Darnold flopped there was a ton of revelling from the Britts and FMICs of the world.
And that's fine. If you're right, you're right. Acting like Baghdad Bob for the Giants doesn't make anyone a better fan than the people that are critical.
You can be critical of the Giants and not be treated like a pariah here.
Waves hand.
I promise you that if Jones stinks it up I will be begging for his replacement. By taking the position that he is being put into a position to succeed and expecting him to show results puts me in a position to reasonably bail if he fails to meet expectations.
It is not at all outlandish to think if Jones stinks it up that many posters on the board will still be hedging against replacing him.
Many will point to contributing factors, variables that came into play whether unforeseen or not, or alternative areas to blame. They will point to his 3-4 better games moreso than numerous bad ones and suggest give him another year.
Not saying I think Jones will stink it up at all. But if he does, a fairly large contingency here will bring out the excuses. And you can bank on that.
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Jones leads then to 10-11 wins in 2021 and I won't have a leg to stand on.
But if they win 6 or 7 are we still going to be in the mood to "give" Jones 2022?
JonC has been stating this for many months - Jones will very likely get the next two years to showcase if he's the solution.
Which suggest Judge has also purchased Jones stock for the long term...
No it doesnt dip shit. We HAVE to pay him for 2 more years regardless.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
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In comment 15260732 UConn4523 said:
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personally? No i won't but yeah there will be plenty of people that will. But isn't that what you should want to happen?
I'm the type of person that wins a bet with a friend and tells them to keep the money, just buy me a beer next time we go out. I really don't care much about being right when it comes to sports outside of picking good enough players to win fantasy.
I want Daniel Jones to win MVP and the Giants to go undefeated on the way to the title. That's what I want, and I'm sure what we all want.
But I find the fantasy "Why not us?" conversations to be horrendous.
I can't tell you what to do, but approaching sport without even a shred of mysticism absolutely baffles me. You know you have no control over any of it, right (I know you know this)?
We haven't been very good but wanting evidence to back up how you root is kinda bizarre to me especially in a league with this much turnover. Outside of the 4 or 5 teams with elite QB's the NFL is very much in play for any number of teams to ascend and make noise.
So yeah, why not us?
Why not us?!
I don't want DG and JJ to think like this...but it is no problem for armchair QBs (fans) to think this way.
There are other teams that have great quarterbacks and play great football. Why can't the Giants?