for the future with the young talent we have now plus 7 picks in the first 4 rounds next year (including two 1st’s). Gives us the chance to move up for just about any player or stay put and build up even more depth.
And worst case, Jones has a bad season and we can package up some picks to move up and select the next QB. Keep in mind even if Jones has a crappy third year and we draft another QB it’s not really cost ineffective to keep Jones for year 4 and let him compete with the new guy. He’s still on a rookie scale deal.
Exciting time to be a Giants fan.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
It is unreasonable, IMO, to say what Jones is/isn't/or ever will be at this juncture. It is incomplete.
Do you know how many great players in NFL history wouldn't exist if they were written off after two seasons?
It was to gratefulhead, and it exists today so it can exist tomorrow.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
I think you can call it shitty. The problem is its all you do these days. There's so many other threads on BBI and for some reason you gravitate heavily towards Jones threads to make the exact same points you always have. Aren't you bored of it yet? (insert "i'm bored of the Giants losing here").
There was a time where adding a WR with video game like moves (along with a fat trade down), a pass rushing prospect better than we've seen in ages, and trying to make the secondary elite would have wet your whistle, but I guess not.
For some reason you NEED everyone to call the team shitty often and repeatedly, no idea why.
How about the guy calling them dipshit a few posts above.
Close enough?
There are other teams that have great quarterbacks and play great football. Why can't the Giants?
Quote:
15-33 is definitive. Jones's 8-18 record as a starter is definitive. Jones has only played 7 good game games out of a possible 32... that's definitive.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
It is unreasonable, IMO, to say what Jones is/isn't/or ever will be at this juncture. It is incomplete.
Do you know how many great players in NFL history wouldn't exist if they were written off after two seasons?
Let's see, and just for quarterbacks:
Bart Starr took five years to at least be a full-time starter under Vince Lombardi
Terry Bradshaw took until his sixth season to win his job full-time
Phil Simms took until his sixth season to kick the injury bug and was still getting booed in the magical 1986 season
Tom Brady took his 4th season (3rd as a starter) to be one of the top quarterbacks
Eli Manning took 4 seasons for people to not boo him on a consistent basis
Quote:
15-33 is definitive. Jones's 8-18 record as a starter is definitive. Jones has only played 7 good game games out of a possible 32... that's definitive.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
It is unreasonable, IMO, to say what Jones is/isn't/or ever will be at this juncture. It is incomplete.
Do you know how many great players in NFL history wouldn't exist if they were written off after two seasons?
Can you name any quarterback in the last ten years that started as poorly as Jones and turned it around to be a great player?
You can't, because it hasn't happened. But there are many that started out as poorly and didn't work out.
And be honest - if Jones were playing for the Eagles or some other team would BBI be saying he's got a shot at greatness? No fucking way.
There are other teams that have great quarterbacks and play great football. Why can't the Giants?
Because right after that Giants QB wins the MVP, you will look to trade him and start over.
Because you like to completely ignore the 1st season Jones had and focus on all of the negativity around his 2nd year while dismissing incredible amount of adversity he faced.
What other teams with QBs on their rookie deals currently are looking at new QBs? How is that Lamat Jackson trade working out for you?
You are so entirely full of shit. You throw a bunch of theories up against the wall,oneor 2 works out (Odell and to a lesser extent Shockey), but you never have to deal with the stuff that tends not to. You brag about right about 2 things constantly, make ridiculous claims that amount to nothing more than media fodder and you shit on a QB that you really know nothing about.
Im sure you would be a really fun youth sports coach.
If Jones is a good QB we will win games and make the playoffs under him as long as the rest of the team isn't shitty (ie Defense falling off a cliff like they did after 2016).
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15-33 is definitive. Jones's 8-18 record as a starter is definitive. Jones has only played 7 good game games out of a possible 32... that's definitive.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
I think you can call it shitty. The problem is its all you do these days. There's so many other threads on BBI and for some reason you gravitate heavily towards Jones threads to make the exact same points you always have. Aren't you bored of it yet? (insert "i'm bored of the Giants losing here").
There was a time where adding a WR with video game like moves (along with a fat trade down), a pass rushing prospect better than we've seen in ages, and trying to make the secondary elite would have wet your whistle, but I guess not.
For some reason you NEED everyone to call the team shitty often and repeatedly, no idea why.
No, I don't get bored with it. And neither do other posters judging by the number of Jones threads that get started (not by me).
As for this draft, it was all about that Chicago first rounder. I'm pinning my hopes on that being a sign that the organization is open to moving on from Jones after next season. Compared to that, Toney or Ojulari matter much less for the long term.
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In comment 15260795 Go Terps said:
Quote:
15-33 is definitive. Jones's 8-18 record as a starter is definitive. Jones has only played 7 good game games out of a possible 32... that's definitive.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
It is unreasonable, IMO, to say what Jones is/isn't/or ever will be at this juncture. It is incomplete.
Do you know how many great players in NFL history wouldn't exist if they were written off after two seasons?
Can you name any quarterback in the last ten years that started as poorly as Jones and turned it around to be a great player?
You can't, because it hasn't happened. But there are many that started out as poorly and didn't work out.
And be honest - if Jones were playing for the Eagles or some other team would BBI be saying he's got a shot at greatness? No fucking way.
Phil Simms? Josh Allen? Rich Gannon?
So does everyone else. You think if the Giants win 11 games that a whole bunch of posters aren't going to line up and say they called it, and how stupid be and I and others were?
Shit, every time a running back gets a new contract we get a thread saying "See? Running backs do have value". When Darnold flopped there was a ton of revelling from the Britts and FMICs of the world.
And that's fine. If you're right, you're right. Acting like Baghdad Bob for the Giants doesn't make anyone a better fan than the people that are critical.
There are absolutely quite a few scorekeepers at BBI. And they will certainly be looking to settle some scores if this thing gets turned around this year.
Which is fine. I have always accepted that and understand that being in the BBI mainstream is always the safest place for many BBIers.
However, while I know it won't stop, I do find it more than a little irritating this "narrative" that posters like you and I are more interested in being right than the Giants winning. I'm actually more interested in why the guys who are in charge of building this team have been so wrong so often.
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In comment 15260795 Go Terps said:
Quote:
15-33 is definitive. Jones's 8-18 record as a starter is definitive. Jones has only played 7 good game games out of a possible 32... that's definitive.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
It is unreasonable, IMO, to say what Jones is/isn't/or ever will be at this juncture. It is incomplete.
Do you know how many great players in NFL history wouldn't exist if they were written off after two seasons?
Can you name any quarterback in the last ten years that started as poorly as Jones and turned it around to be a great player?
You can't, because it hasn't happened. But there are many that started out as poorly and didn't work out.
And be honest - if Jones were playing for the Eagles or some other team would BBI be saying he's got a shot at greatness? No fucking way.
Define poor:
In 2018, in just 12 games, Daniel Jones threw for 24 TD's, 12 INT's, 3000 plus yards, and 61.9 percent completion percentage. He also ran for nearly 300 yards and 2 TD's. So 26 TD's total with 3300 yards total in just 13 games.
Did he fumble a lot, yes. But he was also sacked 38 times.
So define poor, please.
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So does everyone else. You think if the Giants win 11 games that a whole bunch of posters aren't going to line up and say they called it, and how stupid be and I and others were?
Shit, every time a running back gets a new contract we get a thread saying "See? Running backs do have value". When Darnold flopped there was a ton of revelling from the Britts and FMICs of the world.
And that's fine. If you're right, you're right. Acting like Baghdad Bob for the Giants doesn't make anyone a better fan than the people that are critical.
There are absolutely quite a few scorekeepers at BBI. And they will certainly be looking to settle some scores if this thing gets turned around this year.
Which is fine. I have always accepted that and understand that being in the BBI mainstream is always the safest place for many BBIers.
However, while I know it won't stop, I do find it more than a little irritating this "narrative" that posters like you and I are more interested in being right than the Giants winning. I'm actually more interested in why the guys who are in charge of building this team have been so wrong so often.
Ahhhhhh.....andhere begins the capitulations!
Never change bw....despite nobody enjoying your posts.
Quote:
So does everyone else. You think if the Giants win 11 games that a whole bunch of posters aren't going to line up and say they called it, and how stupid be and I and others were?
Shit, every time a running back gets a new contract we get a thread saying "See? Running backs do have value". When Darnold flopped there was a ton of revelling from the Britts and FMICs of the world.
And that's fine. If you're right, you're right. Acting like Baghdad Bob for the Giants doesn't make anyone a better fan than the people that are critical.
There are absolutely quite a few scorekeepers at BBI. And they will certainly be looking to settle some scores if this thing gets turned around this year.
Which is fine. I have always accepted that and understand that being in the BBI mainstream is always the safest place for many BBIers.
However, while I know it won't stop, I do find it more than a little irritating this "narrative" that posters like you and I are more interested in being right than the Giants winning. I'm actually more interested in why the guys who are in charge of building this team have been so wrong so often.
Where were you between 2007 and 2012 bw? Why did you not ever post during those years? You posted a decade before. You posted a decade since. Why did you disappear during that stretch?
JonC has been stating this for many months - Jones will very likely get the next two years to showcase if he's the solution.
Which suggest Judge has also purchased Jones stock for the long term...
No it doesnt dip shit. We HAVE to pay him for 2 more years regardless.
I don't care about paying Jones based on the contract and the cap hit. I care about continuing to play him if he continues to underperform.
So yeah, he's got a lot to prove.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
Those numbers are partially real. You need to adjust for the excuses variable - roster, injuries, weather, OCs, coaching, division, schedule, prior GMs, drops, etc.
So yeah, he's got a lot to prove.
And we were a terrible team so it was evenly matched.
I never said he didn't have a lot to prove.
Terry Bradshaw took until his sixth season to win his job full-time
Phil Simms took until his sixth season to kick the injury bug and was still getting booed in the magical 1986 season
Tom Brady took his 4th season (3rd as a starter) to be one of the top quarterbacks
Eli Manning took 4 seasons for people to not boo him on a consistent basis
All of those guys, save Eli, began their career in a very different NFL. And Eli had a unique and unusual career path that I don't expect to see anyone else duplicate.
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Bart Starr took five years to at least be a full-time starter under Vince Lombardi
Terry Bradshaw took until his sixth season to win his job full-time
Phil Simms took until his sixth season to kick the injury bug and was still getting booed in the magical 1986 season
Tom Brady took his 4th season (3rd as a starter) to be one of the top quarterbacks
Eli Manning took 4 seasons for people to not boo him on a consistent basis
All of those guys, save Eli, began their career in a very different NFL. And Eli had a unique and unusual career path that I don't expect to see anyone else duplicate.
How about Drew Brees? Drafted in 2001. By 2004, written off.
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In comment 15260809 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
Bart Starr took five years to at least be a full-time starter under Vince Lombardi
Terry Bradshaw took until his sixth season to win his job full-time
Phil Simms took until his sixth season to kick the injury bug and was still getting booed in the magical 1986 season
Tom Brady took his 4th season (3rd as a starter) to be one of the top quarterbacks
Eli Manning took 4 seasons for people to not boo him on a consistent basis
All of those guys, save Eli, began their career in a very different NFL. And Eli had a unique and unusual career path that I don't expect to see anyone else duplicate.
How about Drew Brees? Drafted in 2001. By 2004, written off.
I forgot about him to be honest.
Quote:
15-33 is definitive. Jones's 8-18 record as a starter is definitive. Jones has only played 7 good game games out of a possible 32... that's definitive.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
Those numbers are partially real. You need to adjust for the excuses variable - roster, injuries, weather, OCs, coaching, division, schedule, prior GMs, drops, etc.
You actually do need to adjust for it, how much is the question.
You guys seems smart enough to understand that pretty much none of us think Jones is going to be this elite QB so that means he's going to need help.
Its almost like you are arguing over something we are in 90% agreement on, its just that last 10% requires repeated posts on the same thing to really drive the point home.
I did not expect Jones to play that well with the WR's we put on the field last year, especially after Barkley went down. I'm sure you didn't either, so doesn't that mean he does in fact need more to work with?
Where were you between 2007 and 2012 bw? Why did you not ever post during those years? You posted a decade before. You posted a decade since. Why did you disappear during that stretch?
Does it really matter?
I've explained it in the past. I got very consumed with my career. I joined a start-up healthcare company, was part of the leadership team, and was tasked with getting the company to the point where we could liquidate and sell to a buyer. So that was my focus and basically tabled everything. And almost to the point where it was unhealthy. Until we finally sold...
Both were in the playoffs in their 3rd season.
Not just a troll. But a "professional" troll. JFC.
Can you be more boring?
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Where were you between 2007 and 2012 bw? Why did you not ever post during those years? You posted a decade before. You posted a decade since. Why did you disappear during that stretch?
Does it really matter?
I've explained it in the past. I got very consumed with my career. I joined a start-up healthcare company, was part of the leadership team, and was tasked with getting the company to the point where we could liquidate and sell to a buyer. So that was my focus and basically tabled everything. And almost to the point where it was unhealthy. Until we finally sold...
That's just really a crazy coincidence, you know?
I mean, you literally bitched about this team for nearly 10 years, then the year they got good and won the Superbowl you disappeared, never to return until nearly a year after winning their second Superbowl, when they went in the tank and you have never taken a break since.
Just so weird. Guess that's one of those "excuse variables" you have to account for, right?
Quote:
In comment 15260795 Go Terps said:
Quote:
15-33 is definitive. Jones's 8-18 record as a starter is definitive. Jones has only played 7 good game games out of a possible 32... that's definitive.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
It is unreasonable, IMO, to say what Jones is/isn't/or ever will be at this juncture. It is incomplete.
Do you know how many great players in NFL history wouldn't exist if they were written off after two seasons?
Let's see, and just for quarterbacks:
Bart Starr took five years to at least be a full-time starter under Vince Lombardi
Terry Bradshaw took until his sixth season to win his job full-time
Phil Simms took until his sixth season to kick the injury bug and was still getting booed in the magical 1986 season
Tom Brady took his 4th season (3rd as a starter) to be one of the top quarterbacks
Eli Manning took 4 seasons for people to not boo him on a consistent basis
Tom Brady? In his first season as a starter Brady made the pro bowl, had an 11-3 record and won the Super Bowl MVP. In the next season, he led the entire league in touchdown passes.
Probably safe to remove him from your list.
Quote:
You are a professional troll. Anybody that's been here a decent amount of time knows it, too.
Not just a troll. But a "professional" troll. JFC.
Can you be more boring?
Don't care about the personal pissing match but if there's one thing that's boring its Daniel Jones threads.
I'll say it again, should fans be pretty excited heading into 2021 with what looks like a killer draft and exciting FA signings? Would it be fun to discuss those or no?
But keep doing what you do - keeping score.
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In comment 15260801 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 15260795 Go Terps said:
Quote:
15-33 is definitive. Jones's 8-18 record as a starter is definitive. Jones has only played 7 good game games out of a possible 32... that's definitive.
How much shitty football do we have to watch before it's ok to call it shitty? Where's the line?
It is unreasonable, IMO, to say what Jones is/isn't/or ever will be at this juncture. It is incomplete.
Do you know how many great players in NFL history wouldn't exist if they were written off after two seasons?
Let's see, and just for quarterbacks:
Bart Starr took five years to at least be a full-time starter under Vince Lombardi
Terry Bradshaw took until his sixth season to win his job full-time
Phil Simms took until his sixth season to kick the injury bug and was still getting booed in the magical 1986 season
Tom Brady took his 4th season (3rd as a starter) to be one of the top quarterbacks
Eli Manning took 4 seasons for people to not boo him on a consistent basis
Tom Brady? In his first season as a starter Brady made the pro bowl, had an 11-3 record and won the Super Bowl MVP. In the next season, he led the entire league in touchdown passes.
Probably safe to remove him from your list.
My point is that Brady didn't have stellar numbers in his first year; 18 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, 12 fumbles; that's only 6 more touchdowns than interceptions. In '02, the next season his touchdowns were double his interceptions but the Patriots missed the playoffs.
Surely as a Giants fan and a 20 year contributor to BBI, that thought would have crossed your mind?
And again, it bears repeating that Jones's big benefit was supposed to be he was as pro-ready as could be. He wasn't drafted for any elite traits (like Allen was).
And to answer Britt's question about defining poor:
- 8-18 as a starter
- team has struggled to score 20 points per game
- led league both years in fumbles
- poor AY/A both years
- in only 7 of Jones's 32 possible starts did he post a passer rating above league average
What else do you want?
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In comment 15260832 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Where were you between 2007 and 2012 bw? Why did you not ever post during those years? You posted a decade before. You posted a decade since. Why did you disappear during that stretch?
Does it really matter?
I've explained it in the past. I got very consumed with my career. I joined a start-up healthcare company, was part of the leadership team, and was tasked with getting the company to the point where we could liquidate and sell to a buyer. So that was my focus and basically tabled everything. And almost to the point where it was unhealthy. Until we finally sold...
That's just really a crazy coincidence, you know?
I mean, you literally bitched about this team for nearly 10 years, then the year they got good and won the Superbowl you disappeared, never to return until nearly a year after winning their second Superbowl, when they went in the tank and you have never taken a break since.
Just so weird. Guess that's one of those "excuse variables" you have to account for, right?
Quote:
You are a professional troll. Anybody that's been here a decent amount of time knows it, too.
Not just a troll. But a "professional" troll. JFC.
Can you be more boring?
Can you? You say the same thing every single day
And again, it bears repeating that Jones's big benefit was supposed to be he was as pro-ready as could be. He wasn't drafted for any elite traits (like Allen was).
And to answer Britt's question about defining poor:
- 8-18 as a starter
- team has struggled to score 20 points per game
- led league both years in fumbles
- poor AY/A both years
- in only 7 of Jones's 32 possible starts did he post a passer rating above league average
What else do you want?
Don't care about the personal pissing match but if there's one thing that's boring its Daniel Jones threads.
I'll say it again, should fans be pretty excited heading into 2021 with what looks like a killer draft and exciting FA signings? Would it be fun to discuss those or no?
I have spoken very positively about the draft and some of the free agency acquisitions. Naturally, those get ignored because I jump onto a thread about Jones and cast my doubts.
Look, I happen to find the Jones piece in trying to get to a successful '21 (and beyond) one of the most interesting topics. So much hinges on him being able to deliver. And it's a real mystery, based on what he has done so far, if he has the goods to deliver on that...
Can you? You say the same thing every single day
Okay, guilty. But for those of us who post here regularly, who doesn't basically say the same thing over and over on these topics?
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In comment 15260839 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
You are a professional troll. Anybody that's been here a decent amount of time knows it, too.
Not just a troll. But a "professional" troll. JFC.
Can you be more boring?
Don't care about the personal pissing match but if there's one thing that's boring its Daniel Jones threads.
I'll say it again, should fans be pretty excited heading into 2021 with what looks like a killer draft and exciting FA signings? Would it be fun to discuss those or no?
No one's telling you not to. Gidie just started a thread about the Giants being a playoff caliber team. I'm sure there will be plenty of "why not us?" there.
Gettleman, Judge, Jones, draft picks. That's where my head's at because I'm not expecting a good season in the field.
Quote:
Don't care about the personal pissing match but if there's one thing that's boring its Daniel Jones threads.
I'll say it again, should fans be pretty excited heading into 2021 with what looks like a killer draft and exciting FA signings? Would it be fun to discuss those or no?
I have spoken very positively about the draft and some of the free agency acquisitions. Naturally, those get ignored because I jump onto a thread about Jones and cast my doubts.
Look, I happen to find the Jones piece in trying to get to a successful '21 (and beyond) one of the most interesting topics. So much hinges on him being able to deliver. And it's a real mystery, based on what he has done so far, if he has the goods to deliver on that...
It doesn't come across that way. The interest seems to be making sure anyone that like Jones or thinks he can have a good year, knows that he hasn't had a great start to his career and likely won't ever be good.
I have seen you other the other threads a bit, its nice to actually talk to people about something else. But any and all Jones threads become a slog. As interesting as this topic might be, nothing new is really discussed.
Gettleman, Judge, Jones, draft picks. That's where my head's at because I'm not expecting a good season in the field.
Do you have any self awareness at all? Do you realize that you come into every single positive thread people make and remind them that DG and Jones suck, btw Mara does too. So that hope they have, they should flush it down the toilet and join you in your misery.
It gets old and people are attacking you for it.
If Jones needs another season to prove he is the QB going forward, I think it is likely we see another trade of a 1st round pick next year so that they have enough draft capital to get the QB they want in 2023...
Even if Jones fails, I'm not sure the Giants pick a QB next year. Depends on who is available.
With that said, there has to be a sense of urgency right now with all the FA contracts that went out. There is a limited window of effectiveness for those guys and if you don't have a worthy QB, you have a problem. That is QB Hell...
If he can take the big step up, the Giants are far better off.
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To me the 21 season is really only about one thing: how is the club being run between Gettleman and Judge, and how will that be reflected in the 22 draft after Jones posts (I think - for the sensitive) another bad season?
Gettleman, Judge, Jones, draft picks. That's where my head's at because I'm not expecting a good season in the field.
The rest of us are expecting an improved season on the field, it is why you are experiencing more resistance than normal.
Do you have any self awareness at all? Do you realize that you come into every single positive thread people make and remind them that DG and Jones suck, btw Mara does too. So that hope they have, they should flush it down the toilet and join you in your misery.
It gets old and people are attacking you for it.
Expect whatever you want. I'm not telling you not to.
The vast majority of posts on this board are positive...many unrealistically so. There are plenty of threads about how good this team is going to be. I'm fully aware of those that don't agree with me. You can guess how much that bothers me.
And no, i'm not saying Jones is going to the Hall of Fame, so don't try and spin that.
What I'm saying is that you literally don't have the ability or mental capacity to factor in the fact that the TEAM around Jones was largely terrible in 2019, improved a lot in 2020 due to coaching and personnel, and they are still building.
Joe Burrow went 2-7-1 to start his career. Is he a bad quarterback? Drew Brees went 10-17 to start his career, was he a bad quarterback? Stafford started 17-28 in his career, is he a bad quarterback? You've mentioned that you'd like to trade for him. Deshaun Watson is 28-25. Is he a bad quarterback?
Jesus dude. Give it up already. The points that you make don't make any actual sense.
And again, it bears repeating that Jones's big benefit was supposed to be he was as pro-ready as could be. He wasn't drafted for any elite traits (like Allen was).
And to answer Britt's question about defining poor:
- 8-18 as a starter
- team has struggled to score 20 points per game
- led league both years in fumbles
- poor AY/A both years
- in only 7 of Jones's 32 possible starts did he post a passer rating above league average
What else do you want?
Ah OK, so basically what you are saying is "well THESE examples make sense, but basically any other example that runs counter to my argument doesn't make sense." You are full of shit man.
And no, the transition to the pros isn't "smoother" now. There is no evidence of that. Playing quarterback is still as hard as it ever was.
Bart Starr took five years to at least be a full-time starter under Vince Lombardi
Terry Bradshaw took until his sixth season to win his job full-time
Phil Simms took until his sixth season to kick the injury bug and was still getting booed in the magical 1986 season
Tom Brady took his 4th season (3rd as a starter) to be one of the top quarterbacks
Eli Manning took 4 seasons for people to not boo him on a consistent basis
Tom Brady? In his first season as a starter Brady made the pro bowl, had an 11-3 record and won the Super Bowl MVP. In the next season, he led the entire league in touchdown passes.
Probably safe to remove him from your list.
My point is that Brady didn't have stellar numbers in his first year; 18 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, 12 fumbles; that's only 6 more touchdowns than interceptions. In '02, the next season his touchdowns were double his interceptions but the Patriots missed the playoffs.
Its not a good point though. Look what he accomplished and the awards he personally received. I could debate the other ones for different reasons, but having Brady on your list is simply egregious.