football cards, etc. And I came across the greatest Christmas stocking stuffer I ever received. Inside the stocking was Phil Simms’ rookie card and an autographed Phil Simms Proline Portraits card. My Mom always put our best gifts in our Christmas stockings.
And she also admitted years later that she always had a crush on Phil Simms which my Dad, a die hard Giants fan found to be hilarious lol.
But Hoss is a Giant. He was a damn good player and tough as nails. I won’t ever forget what he did on the field for the Giants. When we talk about our top QB’s Hoss belongs in the conversation.
He was excellent until his injury. He went right back to being excellent in 1993. While injury derailed his 1992 season, Handley basically took a year out of his prime in 1991.
my heart was for Simms, but I understood why Handley went with Hoss. Hoss was younger and could move, which added an element. In the pre-season, their numbers were pretty much even and it was strange in that they basically would each play a full half of each pre-season game for Handley to make a call. Hoss actually got pissed at the end of camp and complained to the press that he wasn't going to get a fair shake and Simms would just get the job, and then he ended up winning it.
Handley also said what factored into his decision was the Giants played the Niners & Bears in their first 3 games and Hoss had beaten both of them, so that would help him adjust as a starter.
Seeing that Handley (with Fassel as his OC) in 1992 went back to Simms as the starter, that kind of said it all in hindsight that Simms should have been the pick.
He was excellent until his injury. He went right back to being excellent in 1993. While injury derailed his 1992 season, Handley basically took a year out of his prime in 1991.
That's right. Before the injury to the Bills in '90, I think Simms was going to be right in the MVP discussion. He was 15TD/4INTs, nearly 60% completion and a career high passer rating at the time.
Look, it was an absolute coaching gem by Parcells and Erhardt to adjust the offense and get Hoss ready. And great credit to Hoss for delivering, especially in the SB (notably hanging onto the ball when he was sacked by Smith in the endzone).
But I think Simms still had something in the tank and should have been given the benefit of the doubt to resume his role as starter. And as outlined, he was playing pretty damn well when he went down...
so that 1990 season got some love in the show. Will always believe that Giants wouldn’t have gotten it done that playoff season with Simms as the offense was dying as the season went along. Hoss had just enough mobility to give a spark, and a bit less bravado than Simms that he was the change of pace the offense needed. But Simms should have regained his job in 1991.
Amazing coaching job on both sides of the ball. BB implements 4 man Dline vs CHI and shuts them down, then goes all nickel versus SF and slows them down, and ends it with full dime versus BUF and shocks them in an epic win.
Just great...
I disagree that the offense was sputtering in 1990
They got wrecked by the Eagles and had trouble scoring on the 9ers and Bills (as would happen in the playoffs, but with better results). But they were otherwise largely consistent with production around those games...23 on the Vikings, 31 on the Rams, for example.
Hostetler deserves credit for what he did, but benching Simms was a bad idea, and I disagree with the school of thought that says the Giants wouldn't have beat the 49ers or Bills with Simms in. They played both teams tight during the season, and Simms was the most efficient quarterback in the league in 1990.
When I was a kid, my parents got me a Brad Van Pelt jersey
Because we share a first name. But I didn't want a #10 jersey. I wanted a Simms's jersey. So I tried to color in the zero to make it a 1. To be fair, I had no idea who Van Pelt was.
So yeah, I wanted Simms. I was pretty excited when Hostetler went down against Tampa Bay and Simms led the Giants to a come-from-behind victory.
RE: When I was a kid, my parents got me a Brad Van Pelt jersey
Because we share a first name. But I didn't want a #10 jersey. I wanted a Simms's jersey. So I tried to color in the zero to make it a 1. To be fair, I had no idea who Van Pelt was.
So yeah, I wanted Simms. I was pretty excited when Hostetler went down against Tampa Bay and Simms led the Giants to a come-from-behind victory.
Hmmm... that game wasn't a come from behind. Well, I was only 13.
We’d been through this before, in 1983: new head coach declaring the position open for competition, Phil coming off an injury, and a career backup who had played surprisingly well in relief. Granted, Hoss was much better than Brunner - more mobile anyway - and Phil was wearing down. It was still stupid, and watching the offense in 1991 after the opener was painful.
Giants are playing in Dallas, and Hostetler is putting up a lot of yards. In particular they are working on Dallas CB Isaac Holt...Ingram had 140 yards on him. It was to the point the announcers (I want to say Summerall and Madden, but in my memory they called every Giants game) pointed out that Holt was having a rough day.
Anyway the Giants are trailing by one score late and Hostetler drives them down for what will be the winning TD. He throws (I think) a go route to Ingram in the end zone that is intercepted by none other than Holt to seal the game.
My adult (40ish) cousin who to that point hadn't said much loudly lamented (in front of a group that included a few little kids), "The guy they've been fucking the entire game." I can hear his voice right now like he's in the room with me.
Very fascinating that this was probably the first glimpse many of us saw of the hot backup being better in short spurts than the starter, but with hindsight was never quite on the same level.
He might be undefeated against the Niners, but if you took peak Hoss and threw him as starter on the '84 Giants, it would have helped the Niners on the rivalry end, I have no doubts.
Simms was a baller. An underrated piece of the NYG/SF rivalry for sure. Hoss couldn't have pulled off the '86 MNF comeback nor made the '89 matchup as close as it was, IMO.
RE: While I really liked Hoss, I was always a Simms guy
This is why I never liked Hostetler: "Hoss actually got pissed at the end of camp and complained to the press that he wasn't going to get a fair shake and Simms would just get the job, and then he ended up winning it."
Always whining. Couldn't beat out Blackledge at PSU, it's Paterno's fault. Couldn't beat Simms,it's Parcells fault. He and his dickhead agent even publicized how they popped some champagne when Parcells resigned.
They got wrecked by the Eagles and had trouble scoring on the 9ers and Bills (as would happen in the playoffs, but with better results). But they were otherwise largely consistent with production around those games...23 on the Vikings, 31 on the Rams, for example.
Hostetler deserves credit for what he did, but benching Simms was a bad idea, and I disagree with the school of thought that says the Giants wouldn't have beat the 49ers or Bills with Simms in. They played both teams tight during the season, and Simms was the most efficient quarterback in the league in 1990.
Yeah the offense had slowed putting up points a good bit.
Up until that second Eagles game they had at least put up 20 points in every game in going 10-0. Then over the last 6 games they scored under 20 points four times, averaging only 15 points per game and went 3-3.
Hoss was great in relief but a lot of that was that our offsense changed because of his abilities. We didnt show the same looks to the 49ers and Bills the 2nd time around. That magic wasnt coming back the next year.
Simms! People who aren't real fans easily forget that the 1990
team was 11-3 when Phil broke his foot against the Bills. Hoss did a great job taking the reigns & leading the Giants to the win in SB XXV. Hoss never proved to be an elite QB with the Giants or Raiders,while Phil was elite before the injury & would have been if he had been returned to his rightful position!
that look on his face you could tell he knew he'd never be
back there as a player again. One of the most poignant moments in Giants history. That injury probably also kept him out of the Hall.
The Giants in my opinion was the best team in football that year until Simms got injured.
Clearly, they weren't, because Simms couldn't take them over the top against defensive teams that got to the QB more consistently. Simms was great, but at his age, he was the epitome of a statue.
is that Simms not being the QB of that '90 team - and assuming we still would have won - very, very likely cost him his place in Canton.
He should still be in, but that would have sealed it.
My old man says the same.
It kills me that Simms isn't in the HoF right now. He did for the Giants what overrated Namath did for the Jets.
But Simms actually played great in his SB while Namath was the beneficiary of a Colts team who imploded. But NFL SB lore would have you believe that Namath played great after making his guarantee.
RE: RE: I disagree that the offense was sputtering in 1990
They got wrecked by the Eagles and had trouble scoring on the 9ers and Bills (as would happen in the playoffs, but with better results). But they were otherwise largely consistent with production around those games...23 on the Vikings, 31 on the Rams, for example.
Hostetler deserves credit for what he did, but benching Simms was a bad idea, and I disagree with the school of thought that says the Giants wouldn't have beat the 49ers or Bills with Simms in. They played both teams tight during the season, and Simms was the most efficient quarterback in the league in 1990.
Yeah the offense had slowed putting up points a good bit.
Up until that second Eagles game they had at least put up 20 points in every game in going 10-0. Then over the last 6 games they scored under 20 points four times, averaging only 15 points per game and went 3-3.
Yeah, but consider the circumstances around that. They got trounced by the Eagles, period. They only put up three against a very good Niners team, but had a shot at winning if Parcells hadn't gambled on some fourth downs. And Simms went down midway through the Bills game. The other time they scored under 20 was in a meaningless game against the 1-15 Patriots.
I argue that the slowing down of the offense had the most to do with playing tough defenses in the 49ers and Bills, plus the fact that the Eagles were always a problem. It's not like the team was on a nosedive and then the offense suddenly came to life under Hostetler.
which absolutely had an effect but you could see the offense was puttering trying to score as the season matured. Hoss wasn't some instant jolt turning them into a force as he had to still find some confidence as well with a few starts.
But he offered just enough threat running, scrambling, rolling out of pocket that it allowed for them to get thru playoffs in my view. They played much better on offense vs SF the second time with Hoss (and even without Hampton this time who got hurt) although had to settle too many times with FGs.
Hoss to me was a good backup, and a change of pace guy, not a starter. They won the SB by dumbing down the offense with him, not because of anything spectacular he did, just like anyone does when the backup QB comes in (like us in Seattle last season).
And she also admitted years later that she always had a crush on Phil Simms which my Dad, a die hard Giants fan found to be hilarious lol.
Hoss' mobility was great and all, but he was always kind of a dick. Didn't he threaten to retire or try to force a trade earlier that season?
And Simms showed class after losing the starting job coming out of camp.
Ray Handley, what a joke.
I feel every word of this post deeply.
Also, fuck Ray Handley.
Seems like centuries ago...
Handley also said what factored into his decision was the Giants played the Niners & Bears in their first 3 games and Hoss had beaten both of them, so that would help him adjust as a starter.
Seeing that Handley (with Fassel as his OC) in 1992 went back to Simms as the starter, that kind of said it all in hindsight that Simms should have been the pick.
That's right. Before the injury to the Bills in '90, I think Simms was going to be right in the MVP discussion. He was 15TD/4INTs, nearly 60% completion and a career high passer rating at the time.
Look, it was an absolute coaching gem by Parcells and Erhardt to adjust the offense and get Hoss ready. And great credit to Hoss for delivering, especially in the SB (notably hanging onto the ball when he was sacked by Smith in the endzone).
But I think Simms still had something in the tank and should have been given the benefit of the doubt to resume his role as starter. And as outlined, he was playing pretty damn well when he went down...
Amazing coaching job on both sides of the ball. BB implements 4 man Dline vs CHI and shuts them down, then goes all nickel versus SF and slows them down, and ends it with full dime versus BUF and shocks them in an epic win.
Just great...
Hostetler deserves credit for what he did, but benching Simms was a bad idea, and I disagree with the school of thought that says the Giants wouldn't have beat the 49ers or Bills with Simms in. They played both teams tight during the season, and Simms was the most efficient quarterback in the league in 1990.
So yeah, I wanted Simms. I was pretty excited when Hostetler went down against Tampa Bay and Simms led the Giants to a come-from-behind victory.
So yeah, I wanted Simms. I was pretty excited when Hostetler went down against Tampa Bay and Simms led the Giants to a come-from-behind victory.
Hmmm... that game wasn't a come from behind. Well, I was only 13.
Anyway the Giants are trailing by one score late and Hostetler drives them down for what will be the winning TD. He throws (I think) a go route to Ingram in the end zone that is intercepted by none other than Holt to seal the game.
My adult (40ish) cousin who to that point hadn't said much loudly lamented (in front of a group that included a few little kids), "The guy they've been fucking the entire game." I can hear his voice right now like he's in the room with me.
Very fascinating that this was probably the first glimpse many of us saw of the hot backup being better in short spurts than the starter, but with hindsight was never quite on the same level.
He might be undefeated against the Niners, but if you took peak Hoss and threw him as starter on the '84 Giants, it would have helped the Niners on the rivalry end, I have no doubts.
Simms was a baller. An underrated piece of the NYG/SF rivalry for sure. Hoss couldn't have pulled off the '86 MNF comeback nor made the '89 matchup as close as it was, IMO.
+1
This is why I never liked Hostetler: "Hoss actually got pissed at the end of camp and complained to the press that he wasn't going to get a fair shake and Simms would just get the job, and then he ended up winning it."
Always whining. Couldn't beat out Blackledge at PSU, it's Paterno's fault. Couldn't beat Simms,it's Parcells fault. He and his dickhead agent even publicized how they popped some champagne when Parcells resigned.
Hostetler deserves credit for what he did, but benching Simms was a bad idea, and I disagree with the school of thought that says the Giants wouldn't have beat the 49ers or Bills with Simms in. They played both teams tight during the season, and Simms was the most efficient quarterback in the league in 1990.
Yeah the offense had slowed putting up points a good bit.
Up until that second Eagles game they had at least put up 20 points in every game in going 10-0. Then over the last 6 games they scored under 20 points four times, averaging only 15 points per game and went 3-3.
I appreciated what Hostetler did, but he didn't seem like a consistent starter to me. He always seemed one play away from disaster.
back there as a player again. One of the most poignant moments in Giants history. That injury probably also kept him out of the Hall.
He should still be in, but that would have sealed it.
He should still be in, but that would have sealed it.
My old man says the same.
Clearly, they weren't, because Simms couldn't take them over the top against defensive teams that got to the QB more consistently. Simms was great, but at his age, he was the epitome of a statue.
Quote:
is that Simms not being the QB of that '90 team - and assuming we still would have won - very, very likely cost him his place in Canton.
He should still be in, but that would have sealed it.
My old man says the same.
It kills me that Simms isn't in the HoF right now. He did for the Giants what overrated Namath did for the Jets.
But Simms actually played great in his SB while Namath was the beneficiary of a Colts team who imploded. But NFL SB lore would have you believe that Namath played great after making his guarantee.
Quote:
They got wrecked by the Eagles and had trouble scoring on the 9ers and Bills (as would happen in the playoffs, but with better results). But they were otherwise largely consistent with production around those games...23 on the Vikings, 31 on the Rams, for example.
Hostetler deserves credit for what he did, but benching Simms was a bad idea, and I disagree with the school of thought that says the Giants wouldn't have beat the 49ers or Bills with Simms in. They played both teams tight during the season, and Simms was the most efficient quarterback in the league in 1990.
Yeah the offense had slowed putting up points a good bit.
Up until that second Eagles game they had at least put up 20 points in every game in going 10-0. Then over the last 6 games they scored under 20 points four times, averaging only 15 points per game and went 3-3.
Yeah, but consider the circumstances around that. They got trounced by the Eagles, period. They only put up three against a very good Niners team, but had a shot at winning if Parcells hadn't gambled on some fourth downs. And Simms went down midway through the Bills game. The other time they scored under 20 was in a meaningless game against the 1-15 Patriots.
I argue that the slowing down of the offense had the most to do with playing tough defenses in the 49ers and Bills, plus the fact that the Eagles were always a problem. It's not like the team was on a nosedive and then the offense suddenly came to life under Hostetler.
Simms started 101 of 103 games before the 1990 injury. And in an era before the rules for protecting QBs were enacted.
But he offered just enough threat running, scrambling, rolling out of pocket that it allowed for them to get thru playoffs in my view. They played much better on offense vs SF the second time with Hoss (and even without Hampton this time who got hurt) although had to settle too many times with FGs.