Super Bowl contenders in 2022.
Yes....alot has to go their way in 2021.
It will start with Daniel Jones. He will no longer be a tick slow on his decisions. He will not need to be perfect on every throw, He can rely on several explosive options. Garrett will work with other coaches to improve their system...and they will not need to force things as the defense can be trusted to stop the other guys. The defense will actually be a force. Each unit will play complementary football. The special teams will not disappoint...it will excel. Joe Judge has his team and they will be ready game 1.
For the Giants to be True Super Bowl contenders in 2022, I feel they will need to taste the playoffs in 2021.
The Giants will have some FA in 2022, Peppers and Engram are probably the headliners. Peppers seem to want to be a Giant, so if the Giants want to keep him, they probably could. Engram, the BBI posterboy...is a hard call. To be honest, both seem like the type that NE would let walk. The DL FA can walk, as long as their names are not William's or Lawrence, all others are Jags. Carter and Hernandez will be the most interesting storylines in FA. All the one year FAs are tbds on what they do this year. We might even expect a cap casualty or two. But Bottomline, the core Giants are signed and they will have consistency......my biggest concern is losing Graham. Keeping the same coaches for 3 years is a major benefit.
As soon as the Giants draft trade became apparent, the Bears' 2021 season will be nearly as important as the Giants for all of us. Holding 7 draft picks within the 1st 120 ...will have the Giants primed and ready for a run deep into the playoff..the future looks bright. (to be continued Jan. 2023).
This year the coaching seems right too. They, the mass of posters, are probably somewhat appropriately in a wait and see with Jones and the offensive line. I think those questions will be answered positively.
To me the biggest inhibitor or limitor is Barclay's health and many times I think he exceeds human capabilities and pushes into the realm where he's likely to be hurt. So my thought becomes can they compete without Barklay? And I think so, I think there's that much deep talent that will be superbly coached and maximized.
The post covid spending when everyone else had their hands tied in FA, coupled with acquiring the extra draft capital was a really smart move when you think about it...It really improved the team short term and gave them a real plan long term. Hard to not like what they've done.
If they hit on next year's draft look out.
Bears fan are very excited, but they have a tough schedule and a rookie QB....and desperate mgt....a receipt for disaster.
Judge impresses, but so does Rivera....I think the WFT are on right track. I think the Jones family are over their head....did they actually target players with issues. The Eagles can go either way...be a total disaster or make a rebound.....NFC East should be better
By the end of the 2007 season, the Giants were the best team in football. They proved it in 08 until PLAX Shot himself.
In retrospect their was nothing surprising about the Giants winning in 07.
for instance, lets have a winning record after the first 5 games. Lets start there.
i'd love to NOT be 1-4 and out of the playoff race in October.
They showed the signs last year of a team about to arrive.
1). Was the QB toast?
2). Was the head coach as good as his record or as bad as the coaching job he did in the playoff game?
3). Could the O line be at least decent and hopefully good.
The answers were:
1). yes
2). as bad or worse
3). no.
Questions going into 2021:
1). Can the QB be a top 10-15 QB?
2). Is the coach as good as he seems?
3). Can the o line be at least decent and hopefully good.
Give me three yeses and we are SB contenders this year. Give me a yes to 1 & 2, and we are SB contenders next year.
Color me optimistic. I expect to make a SB run this year.
Excited for the season to begin.
In retrospect their was nothing surprising about the Giants winning in 07.
A mantra that's grown from the unlikeliest of places is the reason for great optimism.
To the 2nd group, I get it...you have been burnt....I cursed this team to 10 years of lousey football after selling my soul for the 2011 Super Bowl.....and it's now over 😁
Wildcard team gets hot and CAN win it all. So, the question is can we be a wildcard team? Maybe we just start there
Wildcard team gets hot and CAN win it all. So, the question is can we be a wildcard team? Maybe we just start there
First 7th seed ever to win it all? I'll take it!
I am more optimistic than I should be based on performance, but I just can't help it. I think they dramatically improved all three phases of the game. The investment in playing time on the OL will play dividends this year.
Part of the Columbo issue in my mind was that he wanted to play the same 5 guys and let them build continuity. Judge knew he needed to get the draft picks and Gates experience. Invaluable for us in 2021.
I expect bigger plays on offense, a better running game and improved 3rd down efficiency. On defense, I expect a better rush, better coverage and for Graham to be even more scheme versatile. On specials, I predict some big plays and generally better field position.
I hoping for the defense to get a couple points better and for the O to improve by a TD. That should put us in play.
Let's go Daniel!
for instance, lets have a winning record after the first 5 games. Lets start there.
i'd love to NOT be 1-4 and out of the playoff race in October.
100% agreed. Crawl, then walk, then run.
Leaping ahead to '22 without seeing how Jones and this OL perform in '21 is a big gamble. And putting the cart way before the horse.
The horse is growing. Stronger, faster and more willing. The cart has been upgraded front to back.
But, it's May. The horse is in the field and the cart is in the barn.
We'll hitch it up in a few months. For now, I choose optimism. The alternative is less fun and the eventual outcome, unaffected by either one.
Crawl before you walk.
The horse is growing. Stronger, faster and more willing. The cart has been upgraded front to back.
But, it's May. The horse is in the field and the cart is in the barn.
We'll hitch it up in a few months. For now, I choose optimism. The alternative is less fun and the eventual outcome, unaffected by either one.
Nicely put.
Jason Garrett is least of my concerns. Garrett spent most of 2020 fighting with both arms tied behind his back. Criticism of him based on 2020 is overblown. Give the guy something to work with at least...it was the same way with Bettcher. You can have great coordinators, you can't do it with a weak roster.
Jason Garrett is least of my concerns. Garrett spent most of 2020 fighting with both arms tied behind his back. Criticism of him based on 2020 is overblown. Give the guy something to work with at least...it was the same way with Bettcher. You can have great coordinators, you can't do it with a weak roster.
Agree with this 100%. After Barkley went down (and maybe even before) the game plan was to play conservatively, limit turnovers, win field position, and keep the game close. I assume this was a joint discussion between Garrett, Judge, and Graham. They were right in thinking this was the best approach to try and win games. Barkley is back, Jones has another year, the OL should be better, the WR's are much improved, and the defense is on an upswing. All this makes me believe we will be more aggressive offensively.
Some coordinators build their scheme around talent beating talent. Other coordinators build their scheme around deception and mismatches. Garret is one end of the spectrum. Guys like McVay and Shanahan are the opposite end.
The Giants lacked talent last year, that's true.
They may have wanted to keep it safe, that is also true.
They can also not have been well served by their approach to offense with the talent they had. At the pro level, you are not always going to out-talent the defense.
Some coordinators build their scheme around talent beating talent. Other coordinators build their scheme around deception and mismatches. Garret is one end of the spectrum. Guys like McVay and Shanahan are the opposite end.
The Giants lacked talent last year, that's true.
They may have wanted to keep it safe, that is also true.
They can also not have been well served by their approach to offense with the talent they had. At the pro level, you are not always going to out-talent the defense.
Let's be honest:
The NYG punted the the 2020 season developing young guys on the line in the manner they did it. I have not seen rotating OL like we did last season before. The motivation seems obvious to me. This hindered what Garrett could do by large amounts. We were as vanilla as vanilla could be. How many big plays were created by skill position talent last year?...Yeah.
Garrett should be Judged on 2021 offensive results.
Let's be honest:
The NYG punted the the 2020 season developing young guys on the line in the manner they did it. I have not seen rotating OL like we did last season before. The motivation seems obvious to me. This hindered what Garrett could do by large amounts. We were as vanilla as vanilla could be. How many big plays were created by skill position talent last year?...Yeah.
Garrett should be Judged on 2021 offensive results.
This take makes very good sense.
That That said I believe that Garrett or any offensive coordinator, is going to design a game plan based not just on the strengths of the team but also the weakness is of the upcoming opponents.
I won’t be surprised if one of Shepard, Slayton, or Engram doesn’t make it out of camp.
Let's be honest:
The NYG punted the the 2020 season developing young guys on the line in the manner they did it. I have not seen rotating OL like we did last season before. The motivation seems obvious to me. This hindered what Garrett could do by large amounts. We were as vanilla as vanilla could be. How many big plays were created by skill position talent last year?...Yeah.
Garrett should be Judged on 2021 offensive results.
What do you mean they "punted" the season just by adding some rotational moves on the OL during the games? This hindered what Garrett could do?
Not sure what you are really getting at here.
I won’t be surprised if one of Shepard, Slayton, or Engram doesn’t make it out of camp.
Bold statement.
Pettis and Ross over any one of that lower threesome?
Some coordinators build their scheme around talent beating talent. Other coordinators build their scheme around deception and mismatches. Garret is one end of the spectrum. Guys like McVay and Shanahan are the opposite end.
I would push back on that McVay/Shanahan comment. I think it's more that they are terrific teachers/evaluators and know how to find the right players to execute their offenses.
There are very, very few who can alter their schemes and pull it off. I would say that's limited to Belichick/McDaniels and Andy Reid.
And those teams were loaded on both sides of the ball.
Garrett took a team with a bad defense and an ordinary rookie QB (who missed preseason) to 13-3.
It's a remarkable accomplishment and flies in the face of all the criticism.
No spring training, no continuity, new system, the perfect storm and he's criticized for keeping it plain vanilla.
It almost approaches cruelty....the superb Kevin Gilbride reduced here to Kildrive. This board, many times, is an outlet for people who need to be critical and need to be smarter than the fulltime experts who spend years honing their craft and have huge support data and personnel.
And yuksters like Go Terps can call Gettleman "a fool".
Sure, there was a lot of talent on that offense, but Garrett was able to get Dak ready to play and execute. So tons of credit for pulling that off.
14th best in total yards allowed
1st in rushing defense
Bad? Hmm...
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Let's be honest:
The NYG punted the the 2020 season developing young guys on the line in the manner they did it. I have not seen rotating OL like we did last season before. The motivation seems obvious to me. This hindered what Garrett could do by large amounts. We were as vanilla as vanilla could be. How many big plays were created by skill position talent last year?...Yeah.
Garrett should be Judged on 2021 offensive results.
What do you mean they "punted" the season just by adding some rotational moves on the OL during the games? This hindered what Garrett could do?
Not sure what you are really getting at here.
Do you really think it hamstrung Garrett much if at all, nor is that akin to punting the season. Especially with the way he coached down the stretch either...
And those teams were loaded on both sides of the ball.
Garrett took a team with a bad defense and an ordinary rookie QB (who missed preseason) to 13-3.
It's a remarkable accomplishment and flies in the face of all the criticism.
No spring training, no continuity, new system, the perfect storm and he's criticized for keeping it plain vanilla.
It almost approaches cruelty....the superb Kevin Gilbride reduced here to Kildrive. This board, many times, is an outlet for people who need to be critical and need to be smarter than the fulltime experts who spend years honing their craft and have huge support data and personnel.
And yuksters like Go Terps can call Gettleman "a fool".
Last time I checked, Garrett is our OC. That 13-3 record, and all the seasons in which the Cowgirls had 10+ wins, while he was in Dallas, came after he was stripped of playcalling duties (after 2013 season). The best the Cowgirls could do while he was calling plays was 8-8...and that was with Dez, Romo, Whitten, etc.
The love affair Giants fans have for Garrett as an OC is silly (stupid really). They were a much more successful organization when he wasn't calling plays.
Jason Garrett isn't a good OC and will be a problem next year, just like he was last year.
Sure, there was a lot of talent on that offense, but Garrett was able to get Dak ready to play and execute. So tons of credit for pulling that off.
What work supports that? Garrett wasn't the OC when Dak was a rookie. He lost the playcalling duties after the 2013 season. Dak was a rookie in 2016.
Dallas record when Garrett was HC and OC: 29-27 (8-8 in all 3 full seasons as OC, 5-3 when he took over midseason)
Dallas record when Garrett was HC only and not calling plays: 56-40 (4 seasons with 9 or more wins)
The numbers don't support the false narrative that Garrett is a great (or even good) OC.
Sure, there was a lot of talent on that offense, but Garrett was able to get Dak ready to play and execute. So tons of credit for pulling that off.
Not doubting he's competent. Plenty of guys are competent though. You can switch out one for the other and not miss much. The good ones are harder to replace and make the best of what you have. Dallas doesn't miss Garrett, for example.
I'd take Pat Shurmur as OC in a second over Jason Garrett. Also I don't view Judge hiring his friend (who happens to be an offensive coordinator) and promoting him after 16 games with a 31-ranked offense to be ringing endorsement either.
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but I think he's a very competent OC and there was some very good work in Dallas to support that. As mentioned, that year when Dak took over as a rookie for Romo was an absolute thing of beauty...
Sure, there was a lot of talent on that offense, but Garrett was able to get Dak ready to play and execute. So tons of credit for pulling that off.
What work supports that? Garrett wasn't the OC when Dak was a rookie. He lost the playcalling duties after the 2013 season. Dak was a rookie in 2016.
Dallas record when Garrett was HC and OC: 29-27 (8-8 in all 3 full seasons as OC, 5-3 when he took over midseason)
Dallas record when Garrett was HC only and not calling plays: 56-40 (4 seasons with 9 or more wins)
The numbers don't support the false narrative that Garrett is a great (or even good) OC.
You're kidding, right, using W-Ls to measure offensive production?
Because I don't care about record when it comes to offense, I care about PPG.
But let's do a deeper dive here. Garrett was hired as the Dallas OC in 2007. In 5 seasons just as the OC only, Dallas' rankings in PPG were:
In 2007, Dallas was 2nd in the NFL in PPG.
In 2008, Dallas was 18th in the NFL in PPG. But Romo didn't play three games.
In 2009, Dallas was 14th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2010, Dallas was 7th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2011, Dallas was 13th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2012, Dallas was 15th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2013, Dallas was 5th in the NFL in PPG.
So on average, they were close to a top 10-12 offense when Garrett was calling the plays. Would that qualify in most circles as a "good" OC?
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In comment 15262284 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but I think he's a very competent OC and there was some very good work in Dallas to support that. As mentioned, that year when Dak took over as a rookie for Romo was an absolute thing of beauty...
Sure, there was a lot of talent on that offense, but Garrett was able to get Dak ready to play and execute. So tons of credit for pulling that off.
What work supports that? Garrett wasn't the OC when Dak was a rookie. He lost the playcalling duties after the 2013 season. Dak was a rookie in 2016.
Dallas record when Garrett was HC and OC: 29-27 (8-8 in all 3 full seasons as OC, 5-3 when he took over midseason)
Dallas record when Garrett was HC only and not calling plays: 56-40 (4 seasons with 9 or more wins)
The numbers don't support the false narrative that Garrett is a great (or even good) OC.
You're kidding, right, using W-Ls to measure offensive production?
Because I don't care about record when it comes to offense, I care about PPG.
But let's do a deeper dive here. Garrett was hired as the Dallas OC in 2007. In 5 seasons just as the OC only, Dallas' rankings in PPG were:
In 2007, Dallas was 2nd in the NFL in PPG.
In 2008, Dallas was 18th in the NFL in PPG. But Romo didn't play three games.
In 2009, Dallas was 14th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2010, Dallas was 7th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2011, Dallas was 13th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2012, Dallas was 15th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2013, Dallas was 5th in the NFL in PPG.
So on average, they were close to a top 10-12 offense when Garrett was calling the plays. Would that qualify in most circles as a "good" OC?
The argument really is how much of that was having the best offensive line in football and Tony Romo under center, and how much of that was Garrett being excellent independent of having incredible talent on hand.
It's certainly not a perfect measurement, but it's more than a reasonable place to start.
The argument really is how much of that was having the best offensive line in football and Tony Romo under center, and how much of that was Garrett being excellent independent of having incredible talent on hand.
I don't know how to quantify that. Talent absolutely helps - agreed.
But someone has to organize it, teach, draw up the game plans, make adjustments, etc. So that's where the OC comes in...
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So may times with a lead and a great defense or maybe against another team with a great offense, you slow walk everything. Rush the ball, control the ball…all of that comes at the expense of ppg.
It's certainly not a perfect measurement, but it's more than a reasonable place to start.
IMO, not more reasonable than wins.
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In comment 15262284 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but I think he's a very competent OC and there was some very good work in Dallas to support that. As mentioned, that year when Dak took over as a rookie for Romo was an absolute thing of beauty...
Sure, there was a lot of talent on that offense, but Garrett was able to get Dak ready to play and execute. So tons of credit for pulling that off.
What work supports that? Garrett wasn't the OC when Dak was a rookie. He lost the playcalling duties after the 2013 season. Dak was a rookie in 2016.
Dallas record when Garrett was HC and OC: 29-27 (8-8 in all 3 full seasons as OC, 5-3 when he took over midseason)
Dallas record when Garrett was HC only and not calling plays: 56-40 (4 seasons with 9 or more wins)
The numbers don't support the false narrative that Garrett is a great (or even good) OC.
You're kidding, right, using W-Ls to measure offensive production?
Because I don't care about record when it comes to offense, I care about PPG.
But let's do a deeper dive here. Garrett was hired as the Dallas OC in 2007. In 5 seasons just as the OC only, Dallas' rankings in PPG were:
In 2007, Dallas was 2nd in the NFL in PPG.
In 2008, Dallas was 18th in the NFL in PPG. But Romo didn't play three games.
In 2009, Dallas was 14th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2010, Dallas was 7th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2011, Dallas was 13th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2012, Dallas was 15th in the NFL in PPG.
In 2013, Dallas was 5th in the NFL in PPG.
So on average, they were close to a top 10-12 offense when Garrett was calling the plays. Would that qualify in most circles as a "good" OC?
I'm measuring the fact he got fired as the OC and the team got better. A top 10-12 offense with a top 5-8 QB, top 5 WR, and top 5 TE...even a blind squirrel? He won't have that to work with next year. I live in Dallas and Cowgirl fans feel about Garrett the same way Giants fans feel about Shurmer. They're still having fun with the fact we hired him.
I doubt we will be seeing 4 curl routes this year.