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NFT: Orioles at Mets Game 2. The return of Harvey. Sweeps Thr.

ZGiants98 : 5/12/2021 10:50 am
1.) Villar 3B
2.) Lindor SS
3.) Conforto RF
4.) Alonso 1B
5.) Smith LF
6.) Pillar CF
7.) Peraza 2B
8.) Nido C
9.) Walker P

Mets going for 7th straight. We are running on fumes health wise with McNeil and Almora added to the pile. The Dark Knight returns. How will he be received? Game starts at 12:10. LFGM!
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even Peraza  
KDavies : 5/12/2021 1:50 pm : link
has been playing well. Can't be understated how all these depth moves have helped. It takes them being down Davis, Guillorme, and McNeil. 3 IFs down, and still getting contributions from their 5th guy at the 3B/2B positions.
Do you think  
SJGiant : 5/12/2021 1:50 pm : link
that when DeGrom pitches, the Mets can score some runs for him instead of making him sweat it out all the time?
Asdrubel  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 1:51 pm : link
Cabrera .290/.398/.486, +4 DRS at 3b...he's turning 36! What a career.
Maybe  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 1:51 pm : link
Vizcaino can add something eventually as well. Mallex Smith is still injured.
RE: Asdrubel  
sshin05 : 5/12/2021 1:52 pm : link
In comment 15262212 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Cabrera .290/.398/.486, +4 DRS at 3b...he's turning 36! What a career.


Some guys age well, that's a great start
RE: Asdrubel  
KDavies : 5/12/2021 1:54 pm : link
In comment 15262212 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Cabrera .290/.398/.486, +4 DRS at 3b...he's turning 36! What a career.


I'd take him back when the DBacks are out of it. Think they will take Kilome for him?
RE: RE: Asdrubel  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 1:54 pm : link
In comment 15262214 sshin05 said:
Quote:
In comment 15262212 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Cabrera .290/.398/.486, +4 DRS at 3b...he's turning 36! What a career.



Some guys age well, that's a great start


Career 192 homers (should hit 200), 90 steals (doubt he steals 10 more but anything is possible), 1723 hits (2000 very possible). That's a very nice career under the radar.
RE: RE: Asdrubel  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 1:55 pm : link
In comment 15262217 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15262212 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Cabrera .290/.398/.486, +4 DRS at 3b...he's turning 36! What a career.



I'd take him back when the DBacks are out of it. Think they will take Kilome for him?


Considering Kilome cleared waivers I think his trade value is close to zero... well it technically IS zero
DMM - I lean on defensive metrics a lot less when we can see players  
Eric on Li : 5/12/2021 1:56 pm : link
play almost every day. Nimmo and Pillar have both looked very strong defensively so far. I was hoping for league average from both and both have exceeded expectations.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 1:57 pm : link
Tough to pull off while playing for a Boston team but Xander Bogaerts remains underrated and I'm not exactly clear why? 1.7 fWAR already this season. Has 4 seasons 4+ fWAR (was easily on pace to clear that again last year) and 3 of those seasons were 4.9, 4.9 and 6.8!
Speaking of the AL East  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:04 pm : link
So Semien WAS in fact a complete steal for Toronto for 1 year. 125 wRC+, completely passable defensively at 2 positions.

One of my off-season targets
"Not exactly an exciting option but what about Bryan Reynolds? Career 122 wRC+ against righties. +3 DRS career in CF, + defensive CO for his career https://fangraphs.com/players/bryan-reynolds/19326/stats?position=OF #Mets"

140 wRC+ this year! No indication he was actually available but he's good. I'm also happy to hear the Mets looked into Means, I do suspect that was Porter however.
gary cohen  
sshin05 : 5/12/2021 2:04 pm : link
has an exceptional memory of Mets history.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:11 pm : link
like to see guys like Smith and Barnes get some work in today.
another better than average catch from Pillar  
Eric on Li : 5/12/2021 2:13 pm : link
I don't know if I'd agree with Gary's observation that he's still an elite CF but I do feel comfortable saying he's played a good CF.
Rio Ruiz  
jpkmets : 5/12/2021 2:14 pm : link
Looks just like a young Carlos Beltran. Did a serious double take.
RE: another better than average catch from Pillar  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:22 pm : link
In comment 15262245 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I don't know if I'd agree with Gary's observation that he's still an elite CF but I do feel comfortable saying he's played a good CF.


I love GKR but Gary Cohen called Daniel Murphy a "net negative". Kevin Pillar is an elite CF? On what planet? Why did he settle for a 4th OF role with the Mets then? C'mon.
huge game for the Mets  
KDavies : 5/12/2021 2:23 pm : link
day off tomorrow. Keep the bullpen rested. This weekend against TB, Lucchesi and TBD going, so will need the arms rested.
RE: I'd  
Mike in NY : 5/12/2021 2:24 pm : link
In comment 15262243 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
like to see guys like Smith and Barnes get some work in today.


Yep I was going to say have Barnes pitch 8th and Smith, Hunter, or Gsellman get the 9th
Neither  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:24 pm : link
OAA nor DRS agree with him.. at all. Gary hasn't seen even average CF play since... Juan Lagares? So yeah maybe compared to Nimmo, Austin Jackson, Conforto, Cespedes and whomever else they have run out there in CF...
RE: RE: I'd  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:25 pm : link
In comment 15262263 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15262243 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


like to see guys like Smith and Barnes get some work in today.



Yep I was going to say have Barnes pitch 8th and Smith, Hunter, or Gsellman get the 9th


I think Hunter may be held back for Saturday. Hunter/Lucchesi 2.0 seems to be the plan. There were murmurs that Szapucki might make the start but that no longer seems to be the case.
Smith  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:26 pm : link
in particular, should get some work, he has a shot to be an actual asset in the BP, and does Barnes have enough to stick? Lucky for some of these guys McWilliams doesn't look particularly close to primetime.
just parking this here in light of today's performance from walker  
Eric on Li : 5/12/2021 2:26 pm : link
the most optimistic career trajectory for him post-injuries was Wheeler for a variety of reasons. Wheeler always had better velocity but their pre-injury k rates, walk rates, era/fips were all pretty similar. Injuries occurred at similar ages/career stages.

So here's a quick comp of Walker (6 starts prior to today) vs. Wheeler (7 starts) so far this year:

K/9 - 9.26 vs. 9.25 (tie)
BB/9 - 3.97 vs. 2.27 (edge Wheeler)
HR/9 - .25 vs. .76 (edge Walker)
ERA - 2.38 vs. 2.83 (edge Walker)
FIP - 2.84 vs. 3.02 (edge Walker)
Avg. FB Velocity - 94.6mph vs. 97.6mph (edge Wheeler)
Avg. Exit Velocity - 89.3mph vs. 86.7 mpg (edge Wheeler)
Hard Hit % - 42% vs. 32% (edge Wheeler)

So Wheeler has given up more homers but on average weaker overall contact. Also about 10% more groundballs than Walker.

Walker has walked more batters, and given up more consistent hard contact, but also given up fewer homers (at a rate well below his career averages). Perhaps also gotten a little luckier than Wheeler having a .220 babip against.

If I had to pick a guy to start a game tomorrow it would still 100% be Wheeler, but if I was building a team for the next few years I'd be tempted to take the guy making a lot less money. Fingers crossed Walker keeps this comparison close and continues to keep the ball in the ballpark, would certainly go a long way towards letting go of Wilponzis not resigning Wheeler.
RE: RE: RE: I'd  
Mike in NY : 5/12/2021 2:27 pm : link
In comment 15262268 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15262263 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15262243 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


like to see guys like Smith and Barnes get some work in today.



Yep I was going to say have Barnes pitch 8th and Smith, Hunter, or Gsellman get the 9th



I think Hunter may be held back for Saturday. Hunter/Lucchesi 2.0 seems to be the plan. There were murmurs that Szapucki might make the start but that no longer seems to be the case.


Okay. I figured with Sean Reid-Foley around they might use Hunter more in later innings where you could keep guys rested as he can throw 2 innings.
RE: Neither  
Eric on Li : 5/12/2021 2:29 pm : link
In comment 15262266 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
OAA nor DRS agree with him.. at all. Gary hasn't seen even average CF play since... Juan Lagares? So yeah maybe compared to Nimmo, Austin Jackson, Conforto, Cespedes and whomever else they have run out there in CF...


He and Ron just talked at length about the defensive metrics not being kind to Pillar and it not matching up to their views of him seeing him live right after he made another nice catch in the gap.

I agree with you that throwing the term "elite" around is silly but I don't know how anyone could watch what he's done the last 10 days or so and not say he's playing a good CF. He has taken away multiple in hits in multiple games.
Pillar is still a legit CFer  
Vanzetti : 5/12/2021 2:33 pm : link
Probably not gg any more but still can get the job done. It’s also hard moving back and forth between LF and CF. Ball looks very different coming off the bat.
RE: RE: Neither  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15262274 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15262266 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


OAA nor DRS agree with him.. at all. Gary hasn't seen even average CF play since... Juan Lagares? So yeah maybe compared to Nimmo, Austin Jackson, Conforto, Cespedes and whomever else they have run out there in CF...



He and Ron just talked at length about the defensive metrics not being kind to Pillar and it not matching up to their views of him seeing him live right after he made another nice catch in the gap.

I agree with you that throwing the term "elite" around is silly but I don't know how anyone could watch what he's done the last 10 days or so and not say he's playing a good CF. He has taken away multiple in hits in multiple games.


I'm not interested in arguing semantics but generally speaking "elite" in sports means cream of the crop not "solid" and Pillar has been solid. Not really going to go into any discussion where the metrics are unfair to Pillar but lineup on other "great" CF's like Buxton and Kiermier. Kiermier 2019+2020 22 OAA in CF, Byron Buxton +15.
RE: Pillar is still a legit CFer  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:37 pm : link
In comment 15262282 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Probably not gg any more but still can get the job done. It’s also hard moving back and forth between LF and CF. Ball looks very different coming off the bat.


"Gets the job done" is backed up by the metrics. Solid in CF so far this season. Elite defensive players (whether you love the metrics are not)... that shows up in the numbers.
just a guess  
KDavies : 5/12/2021 2:38 pm : link
but I wouldn't be surprised if SRF is the TBD. He has been pitching well. Pair Hunter with Lucchesi, and someone else with SRF (Gsellman?)
Mike  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:38 pm : link
it could still be SRF over Hunter (SRF has been pretty impressive) but one of the writers (I think DiComo) said it "sounded like" they would run back the Hunter/Lucchesi combo and not call someone up (like Szapucki)
RE: Mike  
KDavies : 5/12/2021 2:41 pm : link
In comment 15262294 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
it could still be SRF over Hunter (SRF has been pretty impressive) but one of the writers (I think DiComo) said it "sounded like" they would run back the Hunter/Lucchesi combo and not call someone up (like Szapucki)


Who is starting this weekend? I saw Peterson, Lucchesi, and TBD. I agree they go Hunter/Lucchesi, but it was my impression they had another game to scrap together.

Maybe Mets haven't announced and TBD may just be skipping 5th starter because of off day.
RE: RE: Mike  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:44 pm : link
In comment 15262298 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15262294 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


it could still be SRF over Hunter (SRF has been pretty impressive) but one of the writers (I think DiComo) said it "sounded like" they would run back the Hunter/Lucchesi combo and not call someone up (like Szapucki)



Who is starting this weekend? I saw Peterson, Lucchesi, and TBD. I agree they go Hunter/Lucchesi, but it was my impression they had another game to scrap together.

Maybe Mets haven't announced and TBD may just be skipping 5th starter because of off day.


Peterson, TBD, Stroman. So the assumption is Saturday will be Hunter/Lucchesi. SRF apparently isn't stretched out enough to make a traditional start and Szapucki is the only other SP on the 40.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:45 pm : link
Deesha
@DeeshaThosar
Mets won't need to fill deGrom's spot in the rotation until their series in Atlanta next week thanks to this week's off days.

Tomorrow, home: Walker
Friday @ Rays: Peterson
Saturday: TBD
Sunday: Stroman
Hunter  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:47 pm : link
looks like he will get into the game, he still could go Saturday but maybe SRF does in fact get to be the opener.
RE: just parking this here in light of today's performance from walker  
Named Later : 5/12/2021 2:51 pm : link
In comment 15262270 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
the most optimistic career trajectory for him post-injuries was Wheeler for a variety of reasons. Wheeler always had better velocity but their pre-injury k rates, walk rates, era/fips were all pretty similar. Injuries occurred at similar ages/career stages.

So here's a quick comp of Walker (6 starts prior to today) vs. Wheeler (7 starts) so far this year:

K/9 - 9.26 vs. 9.25 (tie)
BB/9 - 3.97 vs. 2.27 (edge Wheeler)
HR/9 - .25 vs. .76 (edge Walker)
ERA - 2.38 vs. 2.83 (edge Walker)
FIP - 2.84 vs. 3.02 (edge Walker)
Avg. FB Velocity - 94.6mph vs. 97.6mph (edge Wheeler)
Avg. Exit Velocity - 89.3mph vs. 86.7 mpg (edge Wheeler)
Hard Hit % - 42% vs. 32% (edge Wheeler)


Eric --
Those are very interesting stats. But I'd be curious as to who the competition was...I think Wheeler has faced the Braves a few times in recent starts.

They still average out to be quite close.
I've  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 2:52 pm : link
been told off the record that Szapucki is "in the mix" for a start vs. Atlanta. That could be fun.
7 in a row  
Eric on Li : 5/12/2021 2:52 pm : link
good pitching, good defense, and finally starting to hit.

team looks impressive considering all the injuries.
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 3:00 pm : link
can't imagine he'd want to pitch in Syracuse but with Carrasco's return no longer close I'd call Porcello and offer him a minor league deal with an all-star break opt out (7/12)
,  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 3:06 pm : link
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
1m
Matt Harvey: "Obviously, there have been so many ups and downs here at this ballpark and with this organization that I didn't really know what to expect. And what the fans gave me out there was pretty incredible. I was holding back tears. I'm not going to lie about that."
RE: ,  
Ira : 5/12/2021 3:19 pm : link
In comment 15262338 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
1m
Matt Harvey: "Obviously, there have been so many ups and downs here at this ballpark and with this organization that I didn't really know what to expect. And what the fans gave me out there was pretty incredible. I was holding back tears. I'm not going to lie about that."


I'm glad the fans treated him well and that he appreciated it.
RE: I've  
KDavies : 5/12/2021 3:21 pm : link
In comment 15262311 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
been told off the record that Szapucki is "in the mix" for a start vs. Atlanta. That could be fun.


I'd prefer pushing Stroman to Monday vs. Atl, and going Puck or something against TB on Sunday
RE: ,  
Named Later : 5/12/2021 3:48 pm : link
In comment 15262338 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
1m
Matt Harvey: "Obviously, there have been so many ups and downs here at this ballpark and with this organization that I didn't really know what to expect. And what the fans gave me out there was pretty incredible. I was holding back tears. I'm not going to lie about that."


Good for Matt. I'm glad the Fans showed him some love today. Good that he was able to toe the slab at Citi one more time. I hope he does much better when he faces ATL, PHI and WAS.
Mets are rolling. And with our “C squad”  
ZGiants98 : 5/12/2021 3:57 pm : link
Will be at all three Rays games this weekend, so JPK, or whoever, feel free to start the threads. Won’t be on. 😉
Despise  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 4:08 pm : link
the Braves but this sucks Braves right-hander Mike Soroka recently felt discomfort in his Achilles and will have to undergo exploratory surgery, Mark Bowman of MLB.com reports.
RE: ,  
jpkmets : 5/12/2021 4:13 pm : link
In comment 15262338 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
1m
Matt Harvey: "Obviously, there have been so many ups and downs here at this ballpark and with this organization that I didn't really know what to expect. And what the fans gave me out there was pretty incredible. I was holding back tears. I'm not going to lie about that."


Really happy to hear that. Thanks for sharing that quote. I had a hearing at 3:30 so I missed Smith's 9th and the post-game. But Harvey gave his absolute all for this team.

2012-2013 and 2015 was event pitching -- bigger than deGrom's starts now because 1) We'd sucked for so long and 2) Harvey is more human than deGrom because of deGrom's beyond excellence.

That is NOT a knock on Jake - from the 2015 post-games he's mischievious and a cool cat (loved when he used the autolower on Murphy's chair when he was in his pressers and screwing with his gatorade) -- it's just that Harvey was (all too -- at times) human, so it was more of a crazy ride from game to game.

I'm glad he felt the love. He deserves it.

What a signing Walker was. Really a coup if he is a facsimile of this for the bulk of the year.

Some really good depth as others have said. That's part of the place of not having to watch payroll so closely is paying off.

Next CBA may include trading draft choices in player trades -- NBA style. That could completely change the equation for rich teams -- use IFA to stock the farm and trading picks for young stars nearing arbitration.

Anyway, great homestand!

Interesting to hear that Mets "went away from the scouting report" that Harvey had on the team from the last couple of weeks (just catching up on the presser).

.  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 4:31 pm : link
Amed Rosario 2-4, RBI double. He hasn't hit, but 0 OAA, -1 DRS in CF, given his experience out thee (or lack thereof) that's pretty impressive. Kudos to him.
love that the fans gave Harvey a good reaction and never say never  
Eric on Li : 5/12/2021 4:40 pm : link
but he is very well going to be a depth arm on the trade market in the next few months...
Not  
DanMetroMan : 5/12/2021 4:48 pm : link
making excuses for Harvey and 7 runs but only 2 of the hits he allowed were classified as "hard hit" (95+ MPH) so while he's clearly not the pitcher he was, it does appear he's a big league SP again. Even if it's the back-end variety.
RE: .  
allstarjim : 5/13/2021 11:13 am : link
In comment 15262424 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Amed Rosario 2-4, RBI double. He hasn't hit, but 0 OAA, -1 DRS in CF, given his experience out thee (or lack thereof) that's pretty impressive. Kudos to him.


Rosario had the walk-off hit/rbi in that game.

He and Gimenez are both hitting sub .200. Hopefully they can turn it around.
was browsing team D stats and the NYM seem to be great at shifting  
Eric on Li : 5/13/2021 2:49 pm : link
Right now the NYM are at +15 DRS as a team which is good to tie 7th best in all baseball. I think most would agree that passes the eye test and they've played their best D in a real long time.

What stands out about that is that 10 of those runs saved are credited to being due to shifting. Which is tied for the 2nd most in baseball with Milwaukee, and behind only the LAD who have 11 runs saved from shifting.

the rest of the defensive categories are all pretty much neutral within a range of +2 to -1. They are middle of the pack in errors (t for 12th most with 23). Bottom 1/3 in out of zone plays. And their zone ratings are actually mostly poor. So shifting is definitely something to keep an eye on over the course of the season. Have the NYM developed some kind of competitive advantage or is it a fluke?

Another thing that stands out is that really the only position that has graded out negatively is 3b (Guillorme surprisingly is the worst at -3, Villar and JDD are both -2). Those 3 players account for all but 1 of the negative DRS across the position players. With average defense at 3b the team might have top 5-10 defense overall almost across the board.

Also interesting is that Lindor is currently neutral (0), so the positive runs saved are from some somewhat unlikely sources. Pillar is +3 in the OF, Nido is +2, Alonso is +2, and McNeil is +2. For all the talk about no DH hurting the NYM Alonso (+2) and Smith (0) have appeared to play some very solid defense.

Last interesting thing is basically to kind of throw cold water on everything I just said as a reminder to take all the defensive metrics with a grain of salt. Linked below is a blog post I hadn't seen from SIS a couple months ago about some changes that transpired in their DRS because of a video glitch from previously only having access to broadcast feeds in certain stadiums, which created artificial delays in their video evaluations of certain players as a result of not having feeds that showed the player's true reactions in full frame over an entire play. Good reminder that even well intentioned and well informed stats from video can still have issues. What's interesting is that for some reason this glitch hit the NYM more than any other team and upon retroactively correcting it the Mets gained 52 runs saved (they went from -86 to -34 since 2019). And Amed Rosario was tied for the most runs "gained" going from a -10 to a -3. Which is ironic because over the last few years there were definitely a bunch of comments about how strange it was that he always graded so poorly at SS.
An update to the last few years of Defensive Runs Saved - ( New Window )
Anyone else catch the video of John Means cheating against  
CooperDash : 5/13/2021 7:11 pm : link
the Mets? Clearly trying to hide the fact that he has a foreign sticky substance on his glove that he’s using while pitching.

Would certainly explain his sudden and drastic improvement this year.
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