And by playing, getting a camp tryout to see if he makes the team as a TE.
I mean, players like Bush care more about Tebow putting on his football cleats again and trying out (at a new position) than he does about his rapist of a QB. Why not be upset about the real pieces of shit in the league like Deshaun Watson, Tyreke Hill, Kareem Hunt, etc. Kaep doesn't want to play anyway but they don't want to accept the truth. Imagine how shakingy mad Bush would have been if Tebow publicized his tryout like Kaep wanted to do.
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I get what Bush is trying to say but it doesn't hold much water anymore. Kaepernick wanted a starting job and a big new contract - once that dried up he made more money off the field.
He didn't even show up to his scheduled workout. Tebow did. Kaepernick wanted it televised.
But let them ignore that.
Yeah but they basically did it to save face. They did fuck it up from the get go so I understand why, from his KP's POV it probably just looked like a charity.
As for Kaep, I have concluded that he never really wanted to return. I think he very cleverly optimized and leveraged his situation and is now sitting on a bigger pile of cash and fame.
As for Kaep, I have concluded that he never really wanted to return. I think he very cleverly optimized and leveraged his situation and is now sitting on a bigger pile of cash and fame.
I would agree, but only after a certain point. The NFL dropped the ball on the whole thing initially and then it just snowballed. After all of that I can see Kaepernick just saying "fuck it" and riding the media train.
Why should there be anger at Tebow?
Why the anger for Tebow trying out? It effects absolutely no one else.
Yea this whole poop Kap thing is getting old. He made his bed, even if he did the moral correct thing here, and I think he did, but he still chose this path. You fuck with your employer, even if you're in the right, you're putting yourself at risk.
Tebow hasn't burned bridges. It is what it is. Fuck the NFL stance in general, no love lost for them here at all, but people need to move on with the Kap nonsense.
So is Bush directing some of his frustration at his own coach for not giving the same chance to Kaepernick?
There is way too much money in race relations....so people make an issue....when there is no issue.
We saw it all too clearly when Desean Jackson threw out the Hitler quote and very few NFL/NBA players got upset.
Ha ha ha, that’s awesome.
These guys look so foolish bringing him up like this now - maybe in 2017, but come on.
As for Kaep, I have concluded that he never really wanted to return. I think he very cleverly optimized and leveraged his situation and is now sitting on a bigger pile of cash and fame.
I agree, Kaepernick does not really want to play football as he is making so much more money now than he would have as a journeyman backup QB.
The truth is that if Kaepernick was good enough teams would not give a damn about his activism. Michael Vick was given a second chance because of his talent. Teams are still interested in trading for Deshaun Watson despite over 20 allegations against him. If Watson played like Kaepernick the Texans would have released him already and he would remain unsigned.
Racist POS should stay off social media
These guys look so foolish bringing him up like this now - maybe in 2017, but come on.
veganism?
This is a political thread. Kapernick was singled out for making a stance about police violence, which got conflated with patriotism and the flag by political opponents on one side of the aisle. All that is a distraction from the real issue that CK was protesting, sadly.
Signing Tebow hits a nerve because he is a white evangelical and just about a worthless a prospect that Kapernick was back in the day, or worse. I get the point of the article.
veganism? seriously.
I don't understand the anger, at all.
He's a good athlete, who possibly could've been a good TE. Might be little late now, but he was given a camp invite from the Coach who he helped win 2 championships, in a region that loves him (for good reason).
It's not like he's been handed a roster spot. What's to be angry about?
If Kaepernick's old coach/coaches wanted to bring him back for a QB role, or even the same role as Tebow who would object? No one.
For a fleeting moment it looked like he could become a good NFL QB. The league caught up to him and he couldn't respond by getting better. It happens frequently (e.g. Tommy Maddox, Tim Couch, RG III, Duante Culpepper.....).
The difference with Kaep is that he was also an enormous distraction while being a 2nd string level QB. NOBODY in the NFL wants their backup QB to be a distraction.
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hasn't played football since Obama was in office. And he STUNK then. Given his veganism and political interests its seems clear that he is far from physically or mentally prepared for a full time role in a league as demanding as the NFL.
These guys look so foolish bringing him up like this now - maybe in 2017, but come on.
veganism?
This is a political thread. Kapernick was singled out for making a stance about police violence, which got conflated with patriotism and the flag by political opponents on one side of the aisle. All that is a distraction from the real issue that CK was protesting, sadly.
Signing Tebow hits a nerve because he is a white evangelical and just about a worthless a prospect that Kapernick was back in the day, or worse. I get the point of the article.
veganism? seriously.
lol you're a moron.
I sometimes get really discouraged thinking about the numbskull ideas which might be projected onto me based on certain and limited criteria perhaps shared in common (but little else) with aforementioned numbskull.
Signing Tebow hits a nerve because he is a white evangelical and just about a worthless a prospect that Kapernick was back in the day, or worse. I get the point of the article.
I'm not sure what it is exactly with Tebow - perhaps you are right - but I have never seen a player less accomplished at the NFL level get so much pub. At least Kaep got a team to the SB and was a play away from winning the game.
Let's face it, Tebow is not a story if ESPN doesn't keep making him a story. But they are in the business of finding stories to attract viewers, listeners, readers, etc. And they must have hard, reliable intel that Tebow moves the needle...
Racist POS should stay off social media
Whereas Tebow likely just loves the sport/competition.
Kap can eat a dick as far as I'm concerned.
JB_in_DC said: Quote:
lol you're a moron.
I get you don't agree with me, but I am not a moron, and you are calling out names.
You put it out there, what does being a vegan have to do with anything? Defend that tripe (non-vegan btw) rather than call other people names.
I sometimes get really discouraged thinking about the numbskull ideas which might be projected onto me based on certain and limited criteria perhaps shared in common (but little else) with aforementioned numbskull.
+1 I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you. You really put it into words perfectly, I'm going to use this in the future for sure lol
No, should be poop Kap
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In comment 15262072 JB_in_DC said:
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hasn't played football since Obama was in office. And he STUNK then. Given his veganism and political interests its seems clear that he is far from physically or mentally prepared for a full time role in a league as demanding as the NFL.
These guys look so foolish bringing him up like this now - maybe in 2017, but come on.
veganism?
This is a political thread. Kapernick was singled out for making a stance about police violence, which got conflated with patriotism and the flag by political opponents on one side of the aisle. All that is a distraction from the real issue that CK was protesting, sadly.
Signing Tebow hits a nerve because he is a white evangelical and just about a worthless a prospect that Kapernick was back in the day, or worse. I get the point of the article.
veganism? seriously.
lol you're a moron.
Arian Foster led the NFL in rushing as a vegan. Cam Newton is a vegan (except on game day when he eats eggs). There are a number of other vegan players. You really shouldn’t be calling anyone a moron…
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Signing Tebow hits a nerve because he is a white evangelical and just about a worthless a prospect that Kapernick was back in the day, or worse. I get the point of the article.
I'm not sure what it is exactly with Tebow - perhaps you are right - but I have never seen a player less accomplished at the NFL level get so much pub. At least Kaep got a team to the SB and was a play away from winning the game.
Let's face it, Tebow is not a story if ESPN doesn't keep making him a story. But they are in the business of finding stories to attract viewers, listeners, readers, etc. And they must have hard, reliable intel that Tebow moves the needle...
How many news outlets other than ESPN are promoting Kaep? They are the same person, only one is willing to take less money and change positions to play a game he loves. It also has to due with his college coach loves what he did for him at Florida and sees the value of him in the locker room. Tebow also grew up just outside of Jacksonville, so he's got that going for him as well
I think Kap could play professional ball still, why not? Starting QB, no. But solid backup sure.
With a tremendous defense Kap was good enough to win games, just not against the Seahawks or really great defenses. 49ers went 8-8 with him in 2014, when based on the tape could have won 2 or 3 games with less than stellar defensive play. He was good for splash plays in *every* game, the likes the Niners haven't seen since Steve Young. Just in the traditional aspects of the game he makes Jimmy G look like Joe Montana.
In hindsight, he should have accepted the trade to the Denver after the Broncos won the Super Bowl. He'd still very likely be in the NFL today, barring some kind of injury or some other freak situation. Kap never had great offensive coaching. Harbaugh stuff was good for a hot minute, but then got figured out. This wasn't an Andy Reid/Kyle Shanahan level offensive innovation going on.
What allowed the early success you ask? The 49er offense at the other 10 positions were a poor man's version of what KC has now. Add the newness of the dual threat and he had open guys his first season and a half. And an arm that could get the ball anywhere on the field if he was open enough. Rewatch the New England game at Foxborough 2012...he put up 41 points that day.
That's the non homer reality on the guy. With enough years removed from the situation, I'm far from defending him and now he just annoys the fuck outta me when I hear him. If only there was just one other team associated with him to take the stink off, lol.
When he did the kneeling stuff (which was originally sitting on the bench), it was viewed as petulance from the 49er fanbase. Pissed he didn't get the starting job that he would eventually get anyways. There was no sign whatsoever he would be who he eventually became. None.
The Kap that won that first NFL start on Chicago MNF in the postgame is *unrecognizable* from a few years later. Body language, personality, clothing style, voice tone, etc. He used to be a likable guy.
Then Harbaugh turned him into a dick, and you get what you see. (he's another character for another day)
BTW, nothing annoys me more than seeing 80-90% of NFL fans saying he sucked post 2014, and now half of them defend him in football terms just over political BS........LMAO.
Annoying af. Stick to your guns.
NFL players are also a little full of shit. There was plenty of shit talk about him from opposing defenses making comments in post game. The Steelers were one of these teams I know, I wonder if Bush was on them in 2015....
I contend he was at least as good as Russell Wilson the first 2-3 seasons overall if you look at overall production. Either that or that 49er roster was severely underrated (defense too) and carried Kap even more than the Seahawks carried Wilson.
I know it was the best 52 man roster in the NFL 2011-2013. Just not the best 53.
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hasn't played football since Obama was in office. And he STUNK then. Given his veganism and political interests its seems clear that he is far from physically or mentally prepared for a full time role in a league as demanding as the NFL.
These guys look so foolish bringing him up like this now - maybe in 2017, but come on.
veganism?
This is a political thread. Kapernick was singled out for making a stance about police violence, which got conflated with patriotism and the flag by political opponents on one side of the aisle. All that is a distraction from the real issue that CK was protesting, sadly.
Signing Tebow hits a nerve because he is a white evangelical and just about a worthless a prospect that Kapernick was back in the day, or worse. I get the point of the article.
veganism? seriously.
He decided to go a different way than being a back up with potential to start.
Tebow is very tight with Urban and this is probably just a try out and see if it can work with no guarantees. Kaep if he wanted could have had similar opportunities in recent years. Comments like the one made do nothing to unite and unfortunately will be given merit by a good portion of society.
I've been hearing this too. ESPN has been doing Tebow pretty much all the time for the last two days. Not sure why he gets under their skin so much or why he deserves this much attention in general.
But to the point per se, I'm not sure anyone should be all that worked up about the 5th undrafted free agent TE tryout player. Nobody is making the team.
It's not quite the same thing, but in the baseball draft it's not uncommon to waste a spot on some sort of nepotism or legacy pick who sucks. Unless of course, you're the fucking stupid Red Sox who actually picked Marc Sullivn, Heywood's son, and actually moved him through the ranks to an actual job while not being worthy (talent-wise) of a jersey.
LOL. Really? If anything, people still use the Evangelical aspect of Tebow against him rather than laud him for it. If those were the criteria for giving people a second chance, preachers would line the football fields with poor talent.
He's getting a chance because of Urban Meyer.
For a fleeting moment it looked like he could become a good NFL QB. The league caught up to him and he couldn't respond by getting better. It happens frequently (e.g. Tommy Maddox, Tim Couch, RG III, Duante Culpepper.....).
The difference with Kaep is that he was also an enormous distraction while being a 2nd string level QB. NOBODY in the NFL wants their backup QB to be a distraction.
This right here. It's not that he wasn't better than some backup QB's. Kaepernick was but it was absolutely not worth the distraction which is why he wasn't signed. It was so obvious but so many fans and members of the media acted as if he wouldn't be a distraction which was ridiculous.
I’ve thought about this and I don’t think it holds much water. They have 5 TEs on the roster (2 are 23 and another is 24) and he himself might get out played by one of the young guys already there.
Is urban meter really going to choose Tebow over a better player? You can make an argument about anything but I’d have a hard time believing that. And if he’s cut then he didn’t take anyone’s place, someone took it from him.
Half the fans would root for him if he decided to become a punter and the other half think he's a goober no matter what he does on the field.
There's no in between.
Then Harbaugh turned him into a dick, and you get what you see. (he's another character for another day)
Harbaugh did not turn him into a dick. Once he met his GF he changed dramatically. If anyone is responsible for his attitude change it's her.
But this charade he's being kept on the sideline by conspiratorial actors is goofball stuff.
He's had plenty of legit chances to get back on the field. I suspect he realizes his cause and story is better told against the backdrop of a guy being kept out, not a guy who is languishing on the bench in Jacksonville.
Kaepernick is roughly a good voice for change. Kaepernick is not a good example of the NFL keeping a guy off a roster for his views.
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In comment 15262249 DonQuixote said:
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In comment 15262072 JB_in_DC said:
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hasn't played football since Obama was in office. And he STUNK then. Given his veganism and political interests its seems clear that he is far from physically or mentally prepared for a full time role in a league as demanding as the NFL.
These guys look so foolish bringing him up like this now - maybe in 2017, but come on.
veganism?
This is a political thread. Kapernick was singled out for making a stance about police violence, which got conflated with patriotism and the flag by political opponents on one side of the aisle. All that is a distraction from the real issue that CK was protesting, sadly.
Signing Tebow hits a nerve because he is a white evangelical and just about a worthless a prospect that Kapernick was back in the day, or worse. I get the point of the article.
veganism? seriously.
lol you're a moron.
Arian Foster led the NFL in rushing as a vegan. Cam Newton is a vegan (except on game day when he eats eggs). There are a number of other vegan players. You really shouldn’t be calling anyone a moron…
Both of their bodies broke down and they were washed up much earlier than they should have been. Veganism is fine for keyboard jockeys and paper pushers I guess, but football players don't last long when they eat like cheerleaders.
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that Tebow continues to receive chances because he's a handsome, well-known, and staunch Evangelical Christian? And that CK was railroaded out of the game for who he is, conversely? That's why.
LOL. Really? If anything, people still use the Evangelical aspect of Tebow against him rather than laud him for it. If those were the criteria for giving people a second chance, preachers would line the football fields with poor talent.
He's getting a chance because of Urban Meyer.
Did I not mention some things that Coach Meyer probably likes about Tebow?
+1
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that Tebow continues to receive chances because he's a handsome, well-known, and staunch Evangelical Christian? And that CK was railroaded out of the game for who he is, conversely? That's why.
LOL. Really? If anything, people still use the Evangelical aspect of Tebow against him rather than laud him for it. If those were the criteria for giving people a second chance, preachers would line the football fields with poor talent.
He's getting a chance because of Urban Meyer.
The evangelical handsome thing is what gives him coverage, and the contrast with Kapernick and how that falls along political and racial divisions, that is real. To deny that is to say that what other people are seeing is just untrue.
The issue is polarizing, and its instructive to think about why. How many people out there think it was CK that polarized things? I think he was protesting the fact that people of color are getting killed, not a controversial stance. I also think that stance kept him out of the league for a while, not recently of course.
And that the facts are incontrovertible and the message completely lost, that is the what we can expect in today’s era.
How about a middle ground? CK was protesting a legitimate concern and violence at maybe the one time in his life where people would listen to him, and a lot of people didn’t want to listen, either because they are in denial about the problem or because they sympathize but would rather not think about it during football.
veganism? seriously.
lol you're a moron.
Arian Foster led the NFL in rushing as a vegan. Cam Newton is a vegan (except on game day when he eats eggs). There are a number of other vegan players. You really shouldn’t be calling anyone a moron…
Arian Foster dabbled in veganism, he was just a more eat healthy dude. Cam Newton has been a vegan for a year. Doesn't really mean much. Most of these guys give it up when they realize it's not optimal.
Kap and Tebow are mutually exclusive.
He's getting a chance because of Urban Meyer.
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but I don't understand how this relates to Kaep.
Why the anger for Tebow trying out? It effects absolutely no one else.
Because he's taking away someone else's much needed opportunity to try and make an NFL roster.
What exactly did Tebow do to garner a tryout over other possible contenders? Because he is a competitor?
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In comment 15261991 barens said:
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but I don't understand how this relates to Kaep.
Why the anger for Tebow trying out? It effects absolutely no one else.
Because he's taking away someone else's much needed opportunity to try and make an NFL roster.
What exactly did Tebow do to garner a tryout over other possible contenders? Because he is a competitor?
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In comment 15261991 barens said:
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but I don't understand how this relates to Kaep.
Why the anger for Tebow trying out? It effects absolutely no one else.
Because he's taking away someone else's much needed opportunity to try and make an NFL roster.
What exactly did Tebow do to garner a tryout over other possible contenders? Because he is a competitor?
Do you know how stupid that sounds? "He is taking away somebody's much needed opportunity...." If that somebody was so good, he'd be making it on 31 other teams.
Kap and Tebow are mutually exclusive.
Well, they are both highly polarizing.
From my perspective, and I am pretty neutral on Tebow, I just don't get why he's so newsworthy. Like I said earlier, his career in the NFL has been pretty uneventful outside that one year in Denver when they beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs.
One could easily argue that he was a bust as a first round selection.
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the pale. He did nothing to catch the grief he got or gets. Just utter bullshit. He was wrongly drafted in the 1st round. He was a washed out QB in a few years that would not switch to TE so he was cut. The only reason he was given a chance in Jax for TE is because Urban Meyer loves him. He has a snowball's chance in hell to make the team.
Kap and Tebow are mutually exclusive.
Well, they are both highly polarizing.
From my perspective, and I am pretty neutral on Tebow, I just don't get why he's so newsworthy. Like I said earlier, his career in the NFL has been pretty uneventful outside that one year in Denver when they beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs.
One could easily argue that he was a bust as a first round selection.
What is polarizing about Tebow? That he is a devout Christian? That he apparently leads a clean life? I cannot understand the hate.
And you are right what is newsworthy about him? And yes he should never have been a 1st rounder or a 2nd rounder. Happens a lot.
What is polarizing about Tebow? That he is a devout Christian? That he apparently leads a clean life? I cannot understand the hate.
I couldn't care less about any of that.
I just can't get my arms around why he gets so much airtime. Like I mentioned earlier, ESPN must have ratings intel that clearly suggest Tebow is worth talking about and moves the needle. Otherwise, why is this such a lead story?
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What is polarizing about Tebow? That he is a devout Christian? That he apparently leads a clean life? I cannot understand the hate.
I couldn't care less about any of that.
I just can't get my arms around why he gets so much airtime. Like I mentioned earlier, ESPN must have ratings intel that clearly suggest Tebow is worth talking about and moves the needle. Otherwise, why is this such a lead story?
This is exactly the hate for Tebow. His performance never met his celebrity. Add to the fact he uses it to proselytize, which a huge number of people find obnoxious, especially young people.
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In comment 15262625 section125 said:
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What is polarizing about Tebow? That he is a devout Christian? That he apparently leads a clean life? I cannot understand the hate.
I couldn't care less about any of that.
I just can't get my arms around why he gets so much airtime. Like I mentioned earlier, ESPN must have ratings intel that clearly suggest Tebow is worth talking about and moves the needle. Otherwise, why is this such a lead story?
This is exactly the hate for Tebow. His performance never met his celebrity. Add to the fact he uses it to proselytize, which a huge number of people find obnoxious, especially young people.
Really good reasons?....His NFL career never matched the hype, but his college career did.
He did not do much preaching or forced it on anyone, maybe ESPN showed some of it, but again to hate him for that is weak. Lots of real POSs out there to really dislike.
But to each his own.
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In comment 15262625 section125 said:
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What is polarizing about Tebow? That he is a devout Christian? That he apparently leads a clean life? I cannot understand the hate.
I couldn't care less about any of that.
I just can't get my arms around why he gets so much airtime. Like I mentioned earlier, ESPN must have ratings intel that clearly suggest Tebow is worth talking about and moves the needle. Otherwise, why is this such a lead story?
This is exactly the hate for Tebow. His performance never met his celebrity. Add to the fact he uses it to proselytize, which a huge number of people find obnoxious, especially young people.
Proselytize means to active convert someone to your faith. I know that he was open about his faith; did he really try converting everyone around him? And, if using the power of celebrity to bring someone around to your way of thinking is going to cause great antipathy, there’s about a million other celebrities that will line up in front of Tebow.
Oh really....that's the story.
Kaepernick viewed the invitation to a workout as an insult. He stated the league had plenty of tape regarding his ability given that he started 58 games in the NFL. He felt that he should have been signed to a contract and then showed his skills during preseason.
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everyone miss the workout the NFL set up for Kaepernick a year or two ago and he didn't take seriously? The NFL called his bluff.
Kaepernick viewed the invitation to a workout as an insult. He stated the league had plenty of tape regarding his ability given that he started 58 games in the NFL. He felt that he should have been signed to a contract and then showed his skills during preseason.
Since he had not played in 3(?) years, what was wrong with a film session workout? He would have had to do a workout with any team he tried out for. And, wasn't he offered a couple of vet minimum contracts which he turned down?
Agree with you, but I guess Devin Bush doesn't.
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No relationship at all to the Tebow situation and not really relevant to anything. Not sure why anyone would put him in this conversation.
Agree with you, but I guess Devin Bush doesn't.
Maybe now, Bush can turn his attention and bitching to Kelvin Benjamin.
Devin Bush should know this.
One lost his job because a large group of people were afraid of him and afraid that he represented the loss of their privilege.
It was completely political and motivated by racism.
The other one lost his job because he wasn’t very good at it.
Devin Bush should know this.
One lost his job because a large group of people were afraid of him and afraid that he represented the loss of their privilege.
It was completely political and motivated by racism.
The other one lost his job because he wasn’t very good at it.
No, both lost their jobs because they weren't very good at it. One just happened to be controversial - people couldn't stand that he was a devout Christian.
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...These two things are unrelated.
Devin Bush should know this.
One lost his job because a large group of people were afraid of him and afraid that he represented the loss of their privilege.
It was completely political and motivated by racism.
The other one lost his job because he wasn’t very good at it.
No, both lost their jobs because they weren't very good at it. One just happened to be controversial - people couldn't stand that he was a devout Christian.
I think that you could argue that in both cases there was innate prejudices which made each figure polarizing and brought negative, distracting attention which took the attention away from the events on the field and...(this is the most important part when looking at inconsistencies in many different events) their talent levels were not sufficient to make the distraction worthwhile to the team(s).
People look for things to bother them, it’s really strange.
I believe your post is a manufactured complaint by the same people who think everything is about race.
Try reading the early parts of this thread smart guy...
And since JAX is very weak at the TE position, Meyer respects the guy and wants types like that in his new locker room, there isn't any reason not to offer the favor.
Polarizing is not a word that many would connect to Tim Tebow, and certainly not many in Florida...
I have no allegiance for CK, but I'm not pretending I didn't watch 50% of the country turn on him for silently protesting, by himself...because a "news" network told them that CK hated America. (in so many words)
For those sick of "race issues." I don't know what to say. The CK issue is about race. If you don't wish to talk about race, "don't start nothing won't be nothing."
Brown_Hornet : 8:09 am : link : reply
...I believe that this is a manufactured complaint by the same people that are afraid of brown people.
Yes, of course Kaepernick kneeled to protest oppression (though in the beginning he didn't articulate well and confused a lot of people even seemingly himself at times with what he was protesting and he made things worse by antagonizing people further with pig socks, che guevara t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro - who you would be hard pressed to find a bigger example of modern day oppression right up until his death).
Many people were offended by his actions or found them disrespectful not because the people are racist or felt like there was no racism or police brutality, but because they view the freedom we have in America, to sit in a packed stadium and watch millionaire athletes play a game was earned on the backs, lives and limbs of people who fought for that flag and that anthem. Not everyone was offended, but many people were. Many customers of NFL teams.
He is out of a job today *mostly* because he was not a good enough QB for a team to sign him and deal with the distractions of his activism.
He himself said in 2016 when this whole thing started if he loses his endorsements and his job because of it he knows he's doing the right thing. Football was not the most important thing to him and he made a choice. He, Kaepernick chose activism over football
If that was Patrick Mahomes kneeling, he'd still be employed today. If he wanted to be.
Tim Tebow getting a tryout with a 90-man roster at TE by his college coach is completely disconnected from Kaepernick not being in the NFL. There is literally zero connection other than one in people's minds who think everything is racial or racially notivated.
Race has zero, nothing, nada to do with Tebow getting a tryout and Kaepernick not being in the NFL today.
If you want another example.
If Deshaun Watson was Tim Tebow (in talent and skin color) he wouldn't be on an NFL roster today. Is that racism? Against Tebow? Against white people? No, it's because he's a shitty quarterback and simply 20+ allegations of sexual assault against a shitty quarterback is more than teams are willing to withstand relative to his talent. But Watson is a good quarterback, so teams will tolerate more and give him more of a chance to get in front of this - similar to how the Steelers dealt with Roethlisberger and his legal issues.
NFL talent trumps all until talent and distraction intersect - then people are no longer worth it - like Kaepernick became.
it's that simple. Racism? No. it's not racism, though that's where some people go first (and end there in many cases)
" they view the freedom we have in America, to sit in a packed stadium and watch millionaire athletes play a game was earned on the backs, lives and limbs of people who fought for that flag and that anthem. Not everyone was offended, but many people were. Many customers of NFL teams."
Nobody was offended until they were told to be.
Racism is real. Sorry you don't believe this...
" they view the freedom we have in America, to sit in a packed stadium and watch millionaire athletes play a game was earned on the backs, lives and limbs of people who fought for that flag and that anthem. Not everyone was offended, but many people were. Many customers of NFL teams."
Nobody was offended until they were told to be.
Nobody was offended...until they were told be?
Two things that are incorrect in just one very small sentence.
Btw - Who told them to be offended?
" they view the freedom we have in America, to sit in a packed stadium and watch millionaire athletes play a game was earned on the backs, lives and limbs of people who fought for that flag and that anthem. Not everyone was offended, but many people were. Many customers of NFL teams."
Nobody was offended until they were told to be.
Racism is real. Sorry you don't believe this...
I believe racism is real. But I also don't believe it's the reason for everything that happens. Stop pretending you know everyone and their background and their experience.
My father is a Vietnam Veteran, he was offended the second he saw it/read about it. No one told him to be offended by anything. Some veterans or active military are not offended by it, some of the policemen and women aren't offended by it, some are. This is America, everyone is different and has a right to be different. and people have a right to make choices.
To your second point, no one believed systemic racism is involved in every single aspect of our society or the reason why everything happens until they were told to believe it.
we can all use tropes and paint with a broad brush and it doesn't change the facts about Kaepernick.
From all of the crap I see on social media (mostly political) not thinking for one's self is more than likely what I see, simply because if and when the situation gets reversed the people (both sides) immediately pivot with their affiliation. I'm not saying you don't think for yourself, but when I see blatant (at least what I feel is blatant) ignoring of problems that are in the same ballpark as issues that are being criticized I immediately think of the sheep analogy.
If I choose to criticize, I think it's a good idea to flip the situation as if something I believe in was guilty of what I have criticized to see how I feel about that. Now, I don't always do that, unfortunately.
And I did, paint with broad strokes regarding those who were offended. That was unfair.
As did you with regards to people like me somehow thinking that we that believe racism is the reason for everything that happens.
This is an issue that was all about racial justice.
I have never understood how standing for the anthem is associated with the military or how not standing is somehow disrespectful. (I stand with my hand on my heart and recite as the anthem is played...)
But, that is anectdotal and irrelevant.
I think that we agree on more than we disagree on here...
...and for those reasons, I'm out.
But we humans can follow bullshit like we were born to it.”
I see a lot of this here and it comes from both side although each side will only see it in the other. On reading these discussions, we need to sort the rational from the bullshit for people on your side as well as the other side.
But we humans can follow bullshit like we were born to it.”
I see a lot of this here and it comes from both side although each side will only see it in the other. On reading these discussions, [b]we need to sort the rational from the bullshit for people on your side as well as the other side.[b]
I think this is where a lot of conversation goes wrong. As you said, it's easier and more comfortable to call out those on the other side (I'm not sure humans are good with taking sides) than it is to call out our own. I'm guilty too, and have admitted to this on this forum.
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“ What's the scientific basis for believing the average person is capable of "following the science"? Anecdotally, all evidence and life experience suggests it is an absurdity.
But we humans can follow bullshit like we were born to it.”
I see a lot of this here and it comes from both side although each side will only see it in the other. On reading these discussions, we need to sort the rational from the bullshit for people on your side as well as the other side.
I think this is where a lot of conversation goes wrong. As you said, it's easier and more comfortable to call out those on the other side (I'm not sure humans are good with taking sides) than it is to call out our own. I'm guilty too, and have admitted to this on this forum.
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to be led by a notable face or a voice. That doesn't mean people aren't thinking for themselves in whether they want to support it or not.
From all of the crap I see on social media (mostly political) not thinking for one's self is more than likely what I see, simply because if and when the situation gets reversed the people (both sides) immediately pivot with their affiliation. I'm not saying you don't think for yourself, but when I see blatant (at least what I feel is blatant) ignoring of problems that are in the same ballpark as issues that are being criticized I immediately think of the sheep analogy.
If I choose to criticize, I think it's a good idea to flip the situation as if something I believe in was guilty of what I have criticized to see how I feel about that. Now, I don't always do that, unfortunately.
Not seeing the connection of this to your previous post about leaders that I replied to. But nevertheless, if you are hanging out on social media to form your views of how many people are not thinking for themselves, then I am not surprised at your conclusions.
Hell, you don't even have to leave BBI if you are looking for sheep...
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...much of what you said I agree with...
" they view the freedom we have in America, to sit in a packed stadium and watch millionaire athletes play a game was earned on the backs, lives and limbs of people who fought for that flag and that anthem. Not everyone was offended, but many people were. Many customers of NFL teams."
Nobody was offended until they were told to be.
Nobody was offended...until they were told be?
Two things that are incorrect in just one very small sentence.
Btw - Who told them to be offended?
No response here Brown Hornet?
You see that here and recognize who is willing to rationally discuss things and those who just follow the bullshit that they have been fed.
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In comment 15263957 Jimmy Googs said:
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to be led by a notable face or a voice. That doesn't mean people aren't thinking for themselves in whether they want to support it or not.
From all of the crap I see on social media (mostly political) not thinking for one's self is more than likely what I see, simply because if and when the situation gets reversed the people (both sides) immediately pivot with their affiliation. I'm not saying you don't think for yourself, but when I see blatant (at least what I feel is blatant) ignoring of problems that are in the same ballpark as issues that are being criticized I immediately think of the sheep analogy.
If I choose to criticize, I think it's a good idea to flip the situation as if something I believe in was guilty of what I have criticized to see how I feel about that. Now, I don't always do that, unfortunately.
Not seeing the connection of this to your previous post about leaders that I replied to. But nevertheless, if you are hanging out on social media to form your views of how many people are not thinking for themselves, then I am not surprised at your conclusions.
Hell, you don't even have to leave BBI if you are looking for sheep...
The connection I was trying to make was about people being told to be offended. You seemed to refute that, and I think that is something that is quite real. A leader can persuade people quite easily. I also never said I was hanging on social media looking for people who do not think for themselves.
You see that here and recognize who is willing to rationally discuss things and those who just follow the bullshit that they have been fed.
If both sides are mad at you, that can be a good thing!
You see that here and recognize who is willing to rationally discuss things and those who just follow the bullshit that they have been fed.
Not seeing the connection of this to your previous post about leaders that I replied to. But nevertheless, if you are hanging out on social media to form your views of how many people are not thinking for themselves, then I am not surprised at your conclusions.
Hell, you don't even have to leave BBI if you are looking for sheep...
The connection I was trying to make was about people being told to be offended. You seemed to refute that, and I think that is something that is quite real. A leader can persuade people quite easily. I also never said I was hanging on social media looking for people who do not think for themselves.
Now you are all over the board with this. I didn't refute that at all.
I said very clearly its not unusual for causes to be led by a notable face or voice, and that doesn't mean people aren't thinking for themselves in whether they want to support it or not.
And yes, leaders can have a persuasive quality to how they speak/act but again that doesn't mean the masses still don't make independent judgments as to where they fall on issues.
The social media comment is where you pointed to specifically noting this behavior. So my response was to only that.
You see that here and recognize who is willing to rationally discuss things and those who just follow the bullshit that they have been fed.
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Not seeing the connection of this to your previous post about leaders that I replied to. But nevertheless, if you are hanging out on social media to form your views of how many people are not thinking for themselves, then I am not surprised at your conclusions.
Hell, you don't even have to leave BBI if you are looking for sheep...
The connection I was trying to make was about people being told to be offended. You seemed to refute that, and I think that is something that is quite real. A leader can persuade people quite easily. I also never said I was hanging on social media looking for people who do not think for themselves.
Now you are all over the board with this. I didn't refute that at all.
I said very clearly its not unusual for causes to be led by a notable face or voice, and that doesn't mean people aren't thinking for themselves in whether they want to support it or not.
And yes, leaders can have a persuasive quality to how they speak/act but again that doesn't mean the masses still don't make independent judgments as to where they fall on issues.
The social media comment is where you pointed to specifically noting this behavior. So my response was to only that.
I don't agree that I'm "all over the board with this" . My apologies that I misread your message, I thought you were refuting that people are susceptible to being told how to think.
But that doesn't mean they still don't ultimately think for themselves in choosing what they support or not.
But that doesn't mean they still don't ultimately think for themselves in choosing what they support or not.
You're right, We can't prove if someone is thinking for themselves or not.
But that doesn't mean they still don't ultimately think for themselves in choosing what they support or not.
Unreal.
It’s absolutely ridiculous.
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people are indeed susceptible to being told how to think in their everyday lives (down to the very laundry detergent they may buy at the supermarket).
But that doesn't mean they still don't ultimately think for themselves in choosing what they support or not.
In regard to your second paragraph, it depends on the individual and how you define “think for themselves”. Some think for themselves to accept whatever they hear for who they trust. The extreme is being part of a cult where they thought for themselves to join.
Agree but extreme cult behavior isn't the spirit of what is being discussed. Nor is it compelling to extrapolate over a larger mass of a people...
Is it also possible that there are people that adamantly believes someone else is a racist and that they actually are not racist?
You can be wrong both ways. That is the truth. Crazy world right now. We need find ways to compromise and see each others truths or this American experiment is going to go to hell.
It's on the way there.
Is it also possible that there are people that adamantly believes someone else is a racist and that they actually are not racist?
You can be wrong both ways. That is the truth. Crazy world right now. We need find ways to compromise and see each others truths or this American experiment is going to go to hell.
It's on the way there.
Is it also possible that there are people that adamantly believes someone else is a racist and that they actually are not racist?
You can be wrong both ways. That is the truth. Crazy world right now. We need find ways to compromise and see each others truths or this American experiment is going to go to hell.
It's on the way there.
American experiment?
I think the republic will survive...
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There are people that are adamant about not being a racist but actually are a racist?
Is it also possible that there are people that adamantly believes someone else is a racist and that they actually are not racist?
You can be wrong both ways. That is the truth. Crazy world right now. We need find ways to compromise and see each others truths or this American experiment is going to go to hell.
It's on the way there.
Young people are brought up and taught things and some things of a prejudiced nature. Hard to totally shake what you are taught in your early years. That is why I cringe when I see children in political demonstrations no matter the point of view. However I tend to define racist more in the real life actions of people rather than drawing conclusions on your impressions of what they say. Hard to do this on a forum site unless it is glaring. By the way, Huck Finn is a great example of that if you are still allowed to read that.
The comparisons to Kaepernick are natural because both he and Tebow are polarizing people (for whatever reasons), yet Tebow has now been signed by 3 other teams since being drafted by the Broncos, and Kaepernick has been signed by no other team.
If someone wants to argue that it's justifiable for Kaepernick to not have any interest from NFL teams because of his lack of talent, that person would have the most credibility to make that case if they also have the stance that police brutality against black people is a real issue in this country. Honestly, I don't know if that person even exists on BBI.
That's not to say that anyone who doesn't think police brutality is an issue should be discredited outright, but any conversation about Kaepernick that doesn't start with a personal opinion on that specific subject is a disingenuous one.
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There are people that are adamant about not being a racist but actually are a racist?
Is it also possible that there are people that adamantly believes someone else is a racist and that they actually are not racist?
You can be wrong both ways. That is the truth. Crazy world right now. We need find ways to compromise and see each others truths or this American experiment is going to go to hell.
It's on the way there.
American experiment?
I think the republic will survive...
No, I will not be specific. Not here.
My daughter is 16 and has done some political activism of her own accord. Her and her friends have marched on behalf of a few different issues. We support her. We felt trying to stop her would put us at odds. We respect her views even when they differ from our own. I am over 50 it makes sense we do not agree on everything. I am proud of her.
Gratefulhead - I could have written nearly the exact the same thing as to our household. :-)
I agree, and said earlier in the thread. T
what part?
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and letting this one go is bullshit
It’s absolutely ridiculous.
There was actually some good conversation on that thread as well, unlike this dumpster fire.
I mean I don't like Tebow, but it's obvious he's getting another shot because he's connected to Urban. It's his football team, so he gets to run it how he wants. Helps build some buzz around the team (which a team like Jax desperately needs to fill seats). That's his value to the 90, highly doubt he makes the 53. Who knows? Maybe he's a special teams stud. Not out of the realm of possibility, he's a guy that has kept himself in tremendous shape and lives a healthy life.
Just wow
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As far as BBI threads that touch on this stuff. All of you take a bow. The underlying causes for the claims of the LB in the OP are political. I think most us have been respectful of opposing views. I want us find ways to talk about stuff that really matters, that we feel strongly about, without hating each other.
+1
Yup, too bad asking the site owner a legitimate question about reading an article gets a thread deleted.