Eliot Shorr-Parks
@EliotShorrParks
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2h
The Giants might have the worst HC, QB, O-Line, D-Line in the NFC East |
I try not to be triggered by this stuff, but being a reporter and such a blatant homer annoys me. The Eagles could offer 3 first round picks & Sirianni for Judge and I’d laugh and hang up the phone.
Brutal take.
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"The Eagles could offer 3 first round picks & Sirianni for Judge and I’d laugh and hang up the phone."
That take IMO is even more brutal...
It’s a head coach league. Judge has a ton to prove still, but no way am I making that trade if offered.
But I'll take Judge and our DL over Nick Sirianni and their DL without blinking.
You would take Hurts over Jones?
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about our OL and Jones, too.
But I'll take Judge and our DL over Nick Sirianni and their DL without blinking.
You would take Hurts over Jones?
Eagles O did a lot better against Arizona than we did
I'd take the Giants D going forward over the Skins. NYG secondary is much better and Lawrence and Williams more than stack up to the Skins DL talent.
Remind me again why the Skins D is any better?
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about our OL and Jones, too.
But I'll take Judge and our DL over Nick Sirianni and their DL without blinking.
You would take Hurts over Jones?
Didn't suggest that, but no. Have never liked Hurts as a passer.
Admire him as a football player and teammate, but have to be much more convinced he is a legit NFL starting QB.
Again, Ill be here to confirm this by the end of the 21 season. If I am wrong so be it. I think the Giants D is going to knock teams around this season.
Yup, and good. I’m tired of seeing the Giants being polite while the Eagles kicked our ass repeatedly for several years.
In about 55 years of rooting for the Giants that only happened once 84-90 and even that run was interrupted by a strike year disaster.
I'm not predicting he's going to win more Super Bowls than Parcells or Coughlin. But I am saying based off 1 COVID season so far there is not one other NFL HC I'd rather have coaching the Giants for the next 10 years.
Jones has been in the league twice as long, played for two staffs and now has that full year under the current staff under his belt. They aren't at all in the same boat even if they are both under pressure this season. Jones has EVERYTHING lined up for him in 21. Hurts is facing an uphill battle in 21.
You continuously ignore the progress Jones has shown under Judge in 2020. Cool.
Let's see which QB wins more games in 2021. One QB couldn't finish a game with nothing on the line in week 17 as his lame duck HC sat his ass faster than we could blink. The other QB was winning his last game in a must win game. One HC literally went to bat for the QB. The other HC literally got fired for taking a huge shit on the young QB.
Totally the same.
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They both need to prove they belong as starting quarterbacks in the NFL. The differences are that Jones's sample size is larger and he cost a lot more to draft.
Jones has been in the league twice as long, played for two staffs and now has that full year under the current staff under his belt. They aren't at all in the same boat even if they are both under pressure this season. Jones has EVERYTHING lined up for him in 21. Hurts is facing an uphill battle in 21.
You continuously ignore the progress Jones has shown under Judge in 2020. Cool.
What progress? Less than half the number of TD's and similar INT figures as under Shurmur? Still fumbles way too much and struggles reading defenses.
Go Terps bat signal.
What I said wasn't even a criticism.
Whatever I wasted too much time already. We will see soon enough once and for all.
O-line might be the worst but other teams have aging O-lines.
D-line is top 2 if not the best.
I’m only being slightly hyperbolic when I offer that the man has done more for this team in one year than any other Giant I can think of since Eli in 2011.
I really don’t know what it would take to even entertain the conversation to trade Judge, but, minimally, I would not consider anything less than a first rounder (or equivalents) for every “expected” year we’d give up, and that’s a deal no living owner would make this early in his career.
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bat signal, haha
Go Terps bat signal.
What I said wasn't even a criticism.
Never said it was. And if you read my posts in other threads I’ve been in agreement the whole time about Daniel Jones having a ton of prove this year.
You continuously ignore the progress Jones has shown under Judge in 2020. Cool.
This is the toughest sell of all the arguments made on behalf of Jones. You make it sound as if it's so crystal clear the progress Jones made in '20 that critics have to be blind to see it otherwise.
Even some of Jones's most ardent supporters would very likely say Jones played better as a rookie under Shurmur than at any point under Judge.
Maybe you have a much better trained eye than me, but the numbers do not support your position at all.
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Jones and Judge have accomplished little and the Giants OL has been crappy for 10 years. You are what your record says you are. Few are predicting that the Giants are going to be good this year either.
I think he is wrong about Judge, but until Jones and the OL prove otherwise on the field...they are fair game for criticism.
Actually, that still is a shitty take. Jones has PROVEN far more than Jalen Hurts. Judge has proven FAR more than first year Eagles Coach rock scissors paper.
Jones so far has proven nothing with a 8-18 record as a starter. He has proven to be mediocre so far. Judge with 6 wins has nothing to brag about either. The key word was 'might'. If the OL comes together...this should be a really good team.
Yes, the Giants only won 6 games last season, but that was twice what I expected.
If anything we can be more sure of what Jones is than what Hurts is, right?
But that’s a hole I no longer even want to go down, it’s been beaten to death.
.. and next year, the year after that and so on.
When I lived in Philthy area in the 90s, I used to get a lot of grief, so besides our 2 recent SBs (to their 0 SBs), I would also remind them that, head to head historically the Giants were about 10-12 games up against them. That 10-12 games evaporated since I left in '99.
Looking forward to beating their asses for the next 10+ years.
But that’s a hole I no longer even want to go down, it’s been beaten to death.
Maybe Jones's fumble went down (from league leading 19 to league leading 11) because Barkley wasn't in the backfield blocking in 2020.
Let's see which QB wins more games in 2021. One QB couldn't finish a game with nothing on the line in week 17 as his lame duck HC sat his ass faster than we could blink. The other QB was winning his last game in a must win game. One HC literally went to bat for the QB. The other HC literally got fired for taking a huge shit on the young QB.
Totally the same.
ouch
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bat signal, haha
Go Terps bat signal.
What I said wasn't even a criticism.
I think almost all of us agree that Jones has a lot to prove.
I asked the question, not to provoke, but I was honestly curious about bw's opinion of the two. The way he phrased it made it sound as if he might like Hurts better and I was curious as to whether it was true and, if so, why.
Paper-rock-scissors
That it's not obvious who the better player is should trouble Giants fans more than Eagles fans, certainly.
In order for this to be true there are a lot of things he'd have to negate, like how the worst coach in the NFC east managed to win 4 games in the division if they had the worst DL, OL and QB for one...
Also, showing any hate for our DL just shows a clear lack of understanding for our scheme which asks the DL to do a lot of dirty work to free up other players.
Oh and by the way, while doing this dirty work, our DL also produced the NFC East sack leader.....
The difference is, there are those who think there's no way he proves it, he just plain sucks. End of story.
While there are others who think (for several reasons including experience, added weapons, more experienced OL, coaching, normal camp, etc.) that there's a reasonable chance that he DOES prove he's a franchise QB.
Those in the latter group appear to be aligned with Coach Judge (if he didn't believe in Jones, he would've done something about it this offseason). Those in the former group seem to think they know better - than Coach Judge.
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plus there was tape on Jones in year 2. Cutting down the turnovers is likely more of an indicator of progression that not throwing TDs to the skill players we trotted out last year. It needs to all come together now.
But that’s a hole I no longer even want to go down, it’s been beaten to death.
Maybe Jones's fumble went down (from league leading 19 to league leading 11) because Barkley wasn't in the backfield blocking in 2020.
Maybe, i won't rule anything out. I know what I think and we will see how it goes this season.
The difference is, there are those who think there's no way he proves it, he just plain sucks. End of story.
While there are others who think (for several reasons including experience, added weapons, more experienced OL, coaching, normal camp, etc.) that there's a reasonable chance that he DOES prove he's a franchise QB.
Those in the latter group appear to be aligned with Coach Judge (if he didn't believe in Jones, he would've done something about it this offseason). Those in the former group seem to think they know better - than Coach Judge.
I think there is a middle ground. Personally I am skeptical that Jones puts it together, but I also did not think that there was a better option available where we were picking in the draft or in Free Agency especially since we were not in a position to make a play for Trevor Lawrence. Looking at who will be available in 2022, I see a number of players with the potential to be better than Fields or Mac Jones, some maybe outright and others definitely when you consider that it would have been Fields or Mac Jones instead of Toney, QB, and a 1st and 4th Round picks in 2022.
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that by throwing that game at seasons end, they moved us up in the draft, then we traded back to the same spot we would have been if they hadn't thrown that game, and got 3 extra picks (including an extra 1st next year)
This post just made my day. +1
Don't forget what losing that game did for the Eagles draft. They moved up (they would have been 9th with a win), traded down six spots (wouldn't have been able to if they were 9th), then jumped ahead of us. They made out too.
The difference is, there are those who think there's no way he proves it, he just plain sucks. End of story.
While there are others who think (for several reasons including experience, added weapons, more experienced OL, coaching, normal camp, etc.) that there's a reasonable chance that he DOES prove he's a franchise QB.
Those in the latter group appear to be aligned with Coach Judge (if he didn't believe in Jones, he would've done something about it this offseason). Those in the former group seem to think they know better - than Coach Judge.
How many times are you going to keep calling out a handful of posters, directly or indirectly, that have enough doubts on Daniel Jones that they would prefer to move on?
If you violently agree that EVERY SINGLE PERSON agrees Jones has so much to prove, than why is it unreasonable for at least some of those people to bang the table that they don't think he will get there? No one can?
And the former group doesn't think they know better than Coach Judge, they have a different opinion. An opinion that is easier for them to express right now than it is for Judge.
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In comment 15263034 cjac said:
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that by throwing that game at seasons end, they moved us up in the draft, then we traded back to the same spot we would have been if they hadn't thrown that game, and got 3 extra picks (including an extra 1st next year)
This post just made my day. +1
Don't forget what losing that game did for the Eagles draft. They moved up (they would have been 9th with a win), traded down six spots (wouldn't have been able to if they were 9th), then jumped ahead of us. They made out too.
Yes the Eagles actually did do some nice things in the offseason, and they have some extra picks for next year as well. Also can you imagine if they didnt trade up for Smith, made that trade with Chicago, and had 4 first rounders next year? (or 3 depending on Wentz)
Also the Eagles have some making up to do for the unmitigated disaster that was Carson Wentz. The Colts got the better part of that deal (if he stays healthy)
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plus there was tape on Jones in year 2. Cutting down the turnovers is likely more of an indicator of progression that not throwing TDs to the skill players we trotted out last year. It needs to all come together now.
But that’s a hole I no longer even want to go down, it’s been beaten to death.
Maybe Jones's fumble went down (from league leading 19 to league leading 11) because Barkley wasn't in the backfield blocking in 2020.
Jones got hit plenty, and sacked plenty.
Jones should improve on his numbers by the presence of Saquon, Golladay, and Toney, because a defense will now have to account for all three, whereas who did they have to account for really last year? Engram? They still have him too. The presence of Rudolph, as a target but also as a blocker, shouldn't be understated, either.
Finally, you cannot undersell the improvement of the OL from the first half of the season to the 2nd half. Nobody is looking at this OL and saying that there it is a slam dunk unit, but there was significant improvement in their performance over last year, most notably from Andrew Thomas. If that continues, and that blind side is substantially locked down, coupled with the massive improvement in skill player personnel, there is reasonable hope that this will be a well-functioning offense, to say nothing of the impact COVID had last year, particularly as it concerned the lack of practice and preparation for the regular season.
He hasn't even been a HC in the NFL yet.
When we start kicking their ass consistently it's going to feel so F'ING GOOD.
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They both need to prove they belong as starting quarterbacks in the NFL. The differences are that Jones's sample size is larger and he cost a lot more to draft.
Jones has been in the league twice as long, played for two staffs and now has that full year under the current staff under his belt. They aren't at all in the same boat even if they are both under pressure this season. Jones has EVERYTHING lined up for him in 21. Hurts is facing an uphill battle in 21.
You continuously ignore the progress Jones has shown under Judge in 2020. Cool.
2019 - 24 passing TDs
2020 - 11 passing TDs
That's progress? Only thing I know about DJ from 2020 is that if he focuses on avoiding turnovers, he's a below average NFL QB.