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Is Garrett on the hot seat?

Mike in Morris : 5/13/2021 2:26 pm
After all the of the off season moves to help the offense and having Kitchens available to step in to the OC spot on a moments notice, is Garrett on the hot seat?
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He should be...  
trueblueinpw : 5/13/2021 11:28 pm : link
You gotta admit, the Giants offense is horrible on the field, starting with Jones and going right on through to nearly every position. Dreck at the skills, dreck on the line, no depth. There’s many reasons the Giants offense is one of the worst in the NFL but Garrett is surely one of those reasons.

Good points above, especially regarding the endless fucking curl routes and Garrett’s three yards and a cloud dust offensive philosophy from like 1940. He’s a bright guy so maybe he’ll turn it around this season. He’s got a lot more talent at the skill positions. But it’s still gonna be Jones at QB1 and I don’t think there’s many, if any, O-co’s that can help with Jones. Look at Goff under McVay, sure, he could help with cutting the field in half and only two reads and all motion and everything else but still, at the end of the day, it’s Goff. Don’t think Garrett doesn’t know this too. Still, he should be getting more out of Jones then he did last season. I think Garrett is a classic example of a coach who won’t alter his scheme to fit his players.

Anyway, yeah, hard to see any way that Garrett’s coming back for a third season.
RE: .  
Milton : 5/13/2021 11:30 pm : link
In comment 15263242 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
I think he is with Judge but I'm not so sure he is with ownership.
And you believe this based on absolutely no evidence other than the narrative you've created in your head.
RE: He should be...  
bLiTz 2k : 5/14/2021 12:23 am : link
In comment 15263753 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
You gotta admit, the Giants offense is horrible on the field, starting with Jones and going right on through to nearly every position. Dreck at the skills, dreck on the line, no depth. There’s many reasons the Giants offense is one of the worst in the NFL but Garrett is surely one of those reasons.

Good points above, especially regarding the endless fucking curl routes and Garrett’s three yards and a cloud dust offensive philosophy from like 1940. He’s a bright guy so maybe he’ll turn it around this season. He’s got a lot more talent at the skill positions. But it’s still gonna be Jones at QB1 and I don’t think there’s many, if any, O-co’s that can help with Jones. Look at Goff under McVay, sure, he could help with cutting the field in half and only two reads and all motion and everything else but still, at the end of the day, it’s Goff. Don’t think Garrett doesn’t know this too. Still, he should be getting more out of Jones then he did last season. I think Garrett is a classic example of a coach who won’t alter his scheme to fit his players.

Anyway, yeah, hard to see any way that Garrett’s coming back for a third season.


Not sure if you're trolling but that extreme take on Jones while acknowledging how severe some of the other issues on the team were makes you a troll in my book.

You've made your mind up on a kid that has every opportunity to be a great player in this league. Hopes he makes you eat a big pile of crow.
This is a make or break year for Garrett...  
EricJ : 5/14/2021 6:31 am : link
even more so than Jones for me.

Garrett's play designs and pay calling are subpar. Not the worst in the league but it is pretty bad.

He has weapons this year and the ability to do more than ever before.

If we go into this season seeing the same plays and the same play calling but with different guys at the skill positions, then he has to go.

If we go into this season and he has not created ways to get the ball into the hands of our play makers, then he has to go.

If we are at 3rd and 6 and I continue to see play designs where every route is deep and to the sideline... he has to go before the season ends.

RE: RE: .  
Danny Kanell : 5/14/2021 7:22 am : link
In comment 15263754 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 15263242 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


I think he is with Judge but I'm not so sure he is with ownership.

And you believe this based on absolutely no evidence other than the narrative you've created in your head.


You don’t think the Mark Colombo thing caused some friction there? And the fact the offense was horrendous? And you don’t think the Garrett hiring was “influenced” by ownership?

Pay attention, Milton.
Again, it's a really challenging argument to make  
Bill L : 5/14/2021 7:37 am : link
that the trades and draft picks means that Judge runs the ship, while simultaneously claiming, that the presence of Garrett means that non-Judge elements run the ship.
Shurmur  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/14/2021 7:50 am : link
was trying to lobby for his job by showing Jones could be productive with him. He took more aggressive chances and I think he created plays to highlight him. He also put him position to take unnecessary hits for a 1st year QB.

I agree with posters that part of the offenses struggles were from playing conservative to limit turnovers and the lack of talent.
RE: If Jones...  
The Mike : 5/14/2021 7:53 am : link
In comment 15263358 bw in dc said:
Quote:
gets surrounded and protected by a myriad of excuses - Covid, inexperienced OL, new OC, new gameplans, injuries, weather, growing pains, schedule, Colonial Pipeline, etc - shouldn't Garrett be afforded the same benefits of the doubt?


No because Garrett is the ultimate excuse. Why blame poor performance on the players for their lack of talent when there are perfectly good scapegoats around?

If the Giants offense is poor this year, it will be due to either injuries or the performance of the OL and quarterback. Character is about accountability. The players own their performance - not the coaches. Deflecting blame from the true source of the problem is the surest way to lose the team...

No...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/14/2021 8:02 am : link
...
Shouldn't be challenging at all to contemplate that Judge  
Jimmy Googs : 5/14/2021 8:12 am : link
is now far more entrenched in player acquisition & draft decisions in Yr 2 while also believing Garrett was internally-recommended to be part of his staff because of his experience level and familiarity within the NFC East.

Why would it?



I always felt Dallas had an explosive offense  
joeinpa : 5/14/2021 8:16 am : link
When Garrett was there. Leads me to belief his conservative passing game last season had more to do with personnel than philosophy.
RE: Shouldn't be challenging at all to contemplate that Judge  
Bill L : 5/14/2021 8:16 am : link
In comment 15263810 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
is now far more entrenched in player acquisition & draft decisions in Yr 2 while also believing Garrett was internally-recommended to be part of his staff because of his experience level and familiarity within the NFC East.

Why would it?




It's twisty to say he has control over one (very general) part but not the intimate workings of his own staff. And, you just compared the current to the situation at the time of his hiring. When you bring it to the present, it's an internally contradictory position.
RE: Again, it's a really challenging argument to make  
UConn4523 : 5/14/2021 8:17 am : link
In comment 15263791 Bill L said:
Quote:
that the trades and draft picks means that Judge runs the ship, while simultaneously claiming, that the presence of Garrett means that non-Judge elements run the ship.


I agree. I think the hire itself was Mara influenced but I don’t think that’s going to keep his job safe if he stinks. If Judge has a better solution for OC I think he gets it.
I don't know what you guys  
Dnew15 : 5/14/2021 8:18 am : link
want Garrett to do?

Here are the skill position guys that had at his disposal to try and generate offense:
WR - A washed up Tate/a banged up Slayton/a banged up Shepard are his top three followed by D. Rattley, CJ Board, Austin Mack.

He's forced to feature a TE that has serious issues concentrating on catching the football backed up L. Toilolo (a blocking TE that struggled to block) and K. Smith.

His stable of RB include Wayne Gallman (JAG to the point that they brought in off the streets:)ALfred Morris, D. Freeman. And Dion Lewis that couldn't beat me in a foot race.

Tell me - how are you going to scheme those guys into more points?

There's no amount of shifts, motion, jet-sweeps, misdirection, mesh routes or anything else that going to make that machine go.
And good luck to Danny DImes...  
Dnew15 : 5/14/2021 8:20 am : link
they have to call him Dimes b/c every throw better be on the dime since his receivers can't get open....except for one guy - and he has issues catching it.
Careful  
UConn4523 : 5/14/2021 8:39 am : link
those sound like excuses.
RE: RE: Shouldn't be challenging at all to contemplate that Judge  
Jimmy Googs : 5/14/2021 8:46 am : link
In comment 15263813 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15263810 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


is now far more entrenched in player acquisition & draft decisions in Yr 2 while also believing Garrett was internally-recommended to be part of his staff because of his experience level and familiarity within the NFC East.

Why would it?






It's twisty to say he has control over one (very general) part but not the intimate workings of his own staff. And, you just compared the current to the situation at the time of his hiring. When you bring it to the present, it's an internally contradictory position.


You are the one seemingly being twisty.

Of course he has control over his staff but, first of all, that has nothing to do with his deeper involvement in player acquisition as you are trying to insinuate.

And second, how hard is it to contemplate Mara wanted Judge to add some experienced guys to his coaching staff, Garrett was specifically recommended internally although it was still Judge's own choice. And that Garrett's performance may not be meeting all of Judge's expectations but he is giving him a year 2. Is it more than that?

RE: RE: RE: Shouldn't be challenging at all to contemplate that Judge  
EricJ : 5/14/2021 8:50 am : link
In comment 15263846 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
how hard is it to contemplate Mara wanted Judge to add some experienced guys to his coaching staff, Garrett was specifically recommended internally although it was still Judge's own choice. And that Garrett's performance may not be meeting all of Judge's expectations but he is giving him a year 2. Is it more than that?


yeah I believe the Garrett hire was one that was done from up above. Like a tutor for a coach (Judge) who is still using training wheels. I felt like this was the one coaching decision that was not made by Judge... but rather he was convinced to go in this direction from a mentorship perspective.
RE: I always felt Dallas had an explosive offense  
UConn4523 : 5/14/2021 8:55 am : link
In comment 15263812 joeinpa said:
Quote:
When Garrett was there. Leads me to belief his conservative passing game last season had more to do with personnel than philosophy.


He's traditionally had a top OL and run game, a mobile QB, a top TE and usually above average (sometimes great) WR corps. The difference in what he had in Dallas to year 1 as a Giant is as much of a 180 as one could have.

He does need to find a way to generate offense despite those differences, but it isn't easy. And i'm not sure a different OC comes in last season and gets us to score much more than we did given the same circumstances.

I look at it this way, the bottom 5 teams in scoring were the Jets, Giants, Jags, Broncos and Bengals - are we blaming their OC's too or are we looking at the talent on offense and pointing out how deficient they are? Bengals would be the outlier since it was a Burrow injury that caused it (although they did score 10 points or less 4x under him in 10 games).
RE: I don't know what you guys  
Jimmy Googs : 5/14/2021 9:06 am : link
In comment 15263816 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
want Garrett to do?

Here are the skill position guys that had at his disposal to try and generate offense:
WR - A washed up Tate/a banged up Slayton/a banged up Shepard are his top three followed by D. Rattley, CJ Board, Austin Mack.

He's forced to feature a TE that has serious issues concentrating on catching the football backed up L. Toilolo (a blocking TE that struggled to block) and K. Smith.

His stable of RB include Wayne Gallman (JAG to the point that they brought in off the streets:)ALfred Morris, D. Freeman. And Dion Lewis that couldn't beat me in a foot race.

Tell me - how are you going to scheme those guys into more points?

There's no amount of shifts, motion, jet-sweeps, misdirection, mesh routes or anything else that going to make that machine go.


Oddly left off this list is Garrett had a second year QB that came out in year 2 and continued to put the ball in harm's way with his play. So Garrett adjusted his gameplans for DJ around mid-season ...
RE: Again, it's a really challenging argument to make  
Dr. D : 5/14/2021 9:26 am : link
In comment 15263791 Bill L said:
Quote:
that the trades and draft picks means that Judge runs the ship, while simultaneously claiming, that the presence of Garrett means that non-Judge elements run the ship.

Spock might say it's "illogical".

Peace be with you.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Shouldn't be challenging at all to contemplate that Judge  
Dr. D : 5/14/2021 9:29 am : link
In comment 15263851 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15263846 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


how hard is it to contemplate Mara wanted Judge to add some experienced guys to his coaching staff, Garrett was specifically recommended internally although it was still Judge's own choice. And that Garrett's performance may not be meeting all of Judge's expectations but he is giving him a year 2. Is it more than that?




yeah I believe the Garrett hire was one that was done from up above. Like a tutor for a coach (Judge) who is still using training wheels. I felt like this was the one coaching decision that was not made by Judge... but rather he was convinced to go in this direction from a mentorship perspective.

That may be true, but it doesn't mean that in year 2 Judge is going to be forced to keep Garrett if things aren't working out.
Very few here  
bLiTz 2k : 5/14/2021 9:44 am : link
Are acknowledging just how bad the play design in the passing game was last year.
RE: RE: Again, it's a really challenging argument to make  
Jimmy Googs : 5/14/2021 10:02 am : link
In comment 15263900 Dr. D said:
Quote:
In comment 15263791 Bill L said:


Quote:


that the trades and draft picks means that Judge runs the ship, while simultaneously claiming, that the presence of Garrett means that non-Judge elements run the ship.


Spock might say it's "illogical".

Peace be with you.


It's illogical because it's a made up a premise.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Shouldn't be challenging at all to contemplate that Judge  
Jimmy Googs : 5/14/2021 10:03 am : link
In comment 15263904 Dr. D said:
Quote:
In comment 15263851 EricJ said:


Quote:


In comment 15263846 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


how hard is it to contemplate Mara wanted Judge to add some experienced guys to his coaching staff, Garrett was specifically recommended internally although it was still Judge's own choice. And that Garrett's performance may not be meeting all of Judge's expectations but he is giving him a year 2. Is it more than that?




yeah I believe the Garrett hire was one that was done from up above. Like a tutor for a coach (Judge) who is still using training wheels. I felt like this was the one coaching decision that was not made by Judge... but rather he was convinced to go in this direction from a mentorship perspective.


That may be true, but it doesn't mean that in year 2 Judge is going to be forced to keep Garrett if things aren't working out.


Already said
RE: Very few here  
UConn4523 : 5/14/2021 10:03 am : link
In comment 15263922 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
Are acknowledging just how bad the play design in the passing game was last year.


Well, it depends on how much you want to factor in injuries and lack of talent into the equation. Some people think its merely an excuse, others see it as a significant reason.

I'll ask again, why weren't the rest of the bottom 5 offenses scoring more, bad OCs? Patriots, Eagles and Redskins round out the 8 teams that failed to average 2 scores a game - all bad OC's?

Poor offense talent (which includes the QB since I know that's a trigger) and injuries (including depth) is the more likely reason.
RE: RE: RE: Again, it's a really challenging argument to make  
Bill L : 5/14/2021 10:12 am : link
In comment 15263946 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15263900 Dr. D said:


Quote:


In comment 15263791 Bill L said:


Quote:


that the trades and draft picks means that Judge runs the ship, while simultaneously claiming, that the presence of Garrett means that non-Judge elements run the ship.


Spock might say it's "illogical".

Peace be with you.



It's illogical because it's a made up a premise.


Made up?

I know that you didn't miss the many many threads where people made the unsubstantiated but, for them absolute, claim, that the draft and the trades where proof that Judge had the keys and the rest of management was cowed into agreement by his awesomeness. I know that you didn't miss those threads because i saw you post on them. If Judge is running the show and he didn't want Garrett on the team, then he would be gone by this afternoon.
RE: RE: Very few here  
UConn4523 : 5/14/2021 10:18 am : link
In comment 15263950 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15263922 bLiTz 2k said:


Quote:


Are acknowledging just how bad the play design in the passing game was last year.



Well, it depends on how much you want to factor in injuries and lack of talent into the equation. Some people think its merely an excuse, others see it as a significant reason.

I'll ask again, why weren't the rest of the bottom 5 offenses scoring more, bad OCs? Patriots, Eagles and Redskins round out the 8 teams that failed to average 2 scores a game - all bad OC's?

Poor offense talent (which includes the QB since I know that's a trigger) and injuries (including depth) is the more likely reason.


3 scores*
RE: RE: He should be...  
trueblueinpw : 5/14/2021 10:23 am : link
In comment 15263771 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
In comment 15263753 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


You gotta admit, the Giants offense is horrible on the field, starting with Jones and going right on through to nearly every position. Dreck at the skills, dreck on the line, no depth. There’s many reasons the Giants offense is one of the worst in the NFL but Garrett is surely one of those reasons.

Good points above, especially regarding the endless fucking curl routes and Garrett’s three yards and a cloud dust offensive philosophy from like 1940. He’s a bright guy so maybe he’ll turn it around this season. He’s got a lot more talent at the skill positions. But it’s still gonna be Jones at QB1 and I don’t think there’s many, if any, O-co’s that can help with Jones. Look at Goff under McVay, sure, he could help with cutting the field in half and only two reads and all motion and everything else but still, at the end of the day, it’s Goff. Don’t think Garrett doesn’t know this too. Still, he should be getting more out of Jones then he did last season. I think Garrett is a classic example of a coach who won’t alter his scheme to fit his players.

Anyway, yeah, hard to see any way that Garrett’s coming back for a third season.



Not sure if you're trolling but that extreme take on Jones while acknowledging how severe some of the other issues on the team were makes you a troll in my book.

You've made your mind up on a kid that has every opportunity to be a great player in this league. Hopes he makes you eat a big pile of crow.


Not trolling at all. When I write that Garrett is a bad O-co, when I write that the line and skill positions are dreck, that’s me acknowledging that Jones hasn’t had much to work with. But, even with these considerations my assessment of Jones is that he isn’t a viable NFL QB1. I quickly add, I certainly hope that I am wrong. I’m not rooting against the Giants or Jones or anyone here. I just don’t see anything to indicate that Jones is more than a backup. I understand why that’s perceived as an extreme take but I really just think that’s what the facts and objective evaluation support. I guess it comes down to this, I *hope* Jones is awesome and successful as the Giants QB1, what I’ve seen to this point doesn’t make *think* this is a likely outcome.
You are going extreme for some reason to make a point  
Jimmy Googs : 5/14/2021 10:27 am : link
and that is what I am debating.

Recent changes in behavior as to player acquisition/draft are indeed being noticed. And many posters are surmising it has a lot to do with Judge's influence into the process. Why?...because its logical as to timing, comments being publicly made from those within the FO and following them, and the profile of the changes.

Why that is being couched by you that those posters are saying Judge absolutely "has the keys" and is running the entire show while cowing the rest of the front office is the question. Where are you going with these extremes?

I'm curious where Garrett's head is at.  
mittenedman : 5/14/2021 10:38 am : link
Last year was an emotional time for him. He was with the Dallas Cowboys for a long time. He gets fired. He immediately ends up with their biggest rival (competitor in real world speak) in a lesser role.

He gets to bring Colombo with him - but we know how that ended up. There were also rumors early in the year Garrett planned on the Giants being a 1-and-done stop back to a Head Coaching position. He then oversaw one of the least-productive offenses in the league. There were rumors of tension between he and Judge.

Well.....here we are. Where is Garrett's head at? Kitchens is looming, with an increased role. Does he just want out, or is he fully invested?
What is more likely...  
The Mike : 5/14/2021 10:41 am : link
That Jason Garrett, who coached one of the highest powered and successful offenses in the NFL for a decade, suddenly didn't know how to scheme an effective offense in 2020? OR That the lack of talent on the entire offensive side of the ball, led by a quarterback who has made fatal mistakes on a regular basis, required a slimmed down version of an NFL offense?

Again, we can hope for the best given the upgrades at the skill positions in 2021. But the OL and quarterback are exactly the same. If the scheme is bad this year, it will be because the coaching staff is not confident that there has been requisite improvement in these six positions. It will not be due to the sudden loss of creativity in the mind of its offensive coordinator.
RE: I believe that Garrett purposefully reduced the game plan to limit  
djm : 5/14/2021 11:06 am : link
In comment 15263740 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
turnovers, attempt to increase possession time, win field position, and keep the game close. I think this was the strategy agreed to by Judge and Garrett. They knew the best way to win with our talent gap, especially after losing Barkley, was to keep it close until the end and try to win the field position game.

This season I also believe they will open it up more. The OL has another year and did look better, the defense looked much better, Barkley is back, Golliday, and Jones has another year.

I don't think Garret is on the hotseat


Love rational takes like this that don't tread into weird and manufactured dramatic crap.

I also don't get the logic that Garrett is a bad fit with Jones yet he got every ounce of talent and ability out of the likes of Romo and Dak. You couldn't conjure up two more apt QBs that match the skill set of Jones. But Jones and Garrett are a bad marriage? Why? Because Jones didn't set the NFL on fire on their first year?


Answer me this, when is it ok NOT to fire the OC and QB after one year? Is it ever?
RE: What is more likely...  
bw in dc : 5/14/2021 11:07 am : link
In comment 15264001 The Mike said:
Quote:
That Jason Garrett, who coached one of the highest powered and successful offenses in the NFL for a decade, suddenly didn't know how to scheme an effective offense in 2020? OR That the lack of talent on the entire offensive side of the ball, led by a quarterback who has made fatal mistakes on a regular basis, required a slimmed down version of an NFL offense?



Right. Garrett is no fool. He's been in the NFL, counting his playing days, for 30+ years. And around some of the game's great minds.

Look, maybe I'm being naive on this part, but I have to imagine he has spoken with Jones to get input on the offense and plays that Jones prefers. So I'm not quite buying - yet - this characterization that Garrett is trying to stick a square peg (Jones) into a round hole (his offense).

I'm betting Garrett AND Judge have more of an idea what they have in Jones and, along with more resources for '21, will design an offense that fits. Then it will be up to Jones to execute.
RE: RE: What is more likely...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/14/2021 11:08 am : link
In comment 15264031 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15264001 The Mike said:


Quote:


That Jason Garrett, who coached one of the highest powered and successful offenses in the NFL for a decade, suddenly didn't know how to scheme an effective offense in 2020? OR That the lack of talent on the entire offensive side of the ball, led by a quarterback who has made fatal mistakes on a regular basis, required a slimmed down version of an NFL offense?





Right. Garrett is no fool. He's been in the NFL, counting his playing days, for 30+ years. And around some of the game's great minds.

Look, maybe I'm being naive on this part, but I have to imagine he has spoken with Jones to get input on the offense and plays that Jones prefers. So I'm not quite buying - yet - this characterization that Garrett is trying to stick a square peg (Jones) into a round hole (his offense).

I'm betting Garrett AND Judge have more of an idea what they have in Jones and, along with more resources for '21, will design an offense that fits. Then it will be up to Jones to execute.
+1
RE: RE: What is more likely...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/14/2021 11:19 am : link
In comment 15264031 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15264001 The Mike said:


Quote:


That Jason Garrett, who coached one of the highest powered and successful offenses in the NFL for a decade, suddenly didn't know how to scheme an effective offense in 2020? OR That the lack of talent on the entire offensive side of the ball, led by a quarterback who has made fatal mistakes on a regular basis, required a slimmed down version of an NFL offense?





Right. Garrett is no fool. He's been in the NFL, counting his playing days, for 30+ years. And around some of the game's great minds.

Look, maybe I'm being naive on this part, but I have to imagine he has spoken with Jones to get input on the offense and plays that Jones prefers. So I'm not quite buying - yet - this characterization that Garrett is trying to stick a square peg (Jones) into a round hole (his offense).

I'm betting Garrett AND Judge have more of an idea what they have in Jones and, along with more resources for '21, will design an offense that fits. Then it will be up to Jones to execute.


Agree with all of this, and still can surmise Judge may also be lukewarm as to some of Garrett's performance without the reference that he doesn't know what he is doing.

Judge stuck himself right into the OL situation last year when it wasn't going the way he wanted and ruffled feathers...so logical to think he would do it again as needed.
RE: RE: What is more likely...  
Dnew15 : 5/14/2021 11:20 am : link
In comment 15264031 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15264001 The Mike said:


Quote:


That Jason Garrett, who coached one of the highest powered and successful offenses in the NFL for a decade, suddenly didn't know how to scheme an effective offense in 2020? OR That the lack of talent on the entire offensive side of the ball, led by a quarterback who has made fatal mistakes on a regular basis, required a slimmed down version of an NFL offense?





Right. Garrett is no fool. He's been in the NFL, counting his playing days, for 30+ years. And around some of the game's great minds.

Look, maybe I'm being naive on this part, but I have to imagine he has spoken with Jones to get input on the offense and plays that Jones prefers. So I'm not quite buying - yet - this characterization that Garrett is trying to stick a square peg (Jones) into a round hole (his offense).

I'm betting Garrett AND Judge have more of an idea what they have in Jones and, along with more resources for '21, will design an offense that fits. Then it will be up to Jones to execute.


I agree 100%.

THey are both undoubtedly hitching their wagon to his star.

And I'll take it a step further and I think you'll agree...if his star fades - it should cost everyone their jobs.
RE: RE: RE: What is more likely...  
The Mike : 5/14/2021 11:29 am : link
In comment 15264043 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15264031 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15264001 The Mike said:


Quote:


That Jason Garrett, who coached one of the highest powered and successful offenses in the NFL for a decade, suddenly didn't know how to scheme an effective offense in 2020? OR That the lack of talent on the entire offensive side of the ball, led by a quarterback who has made fatal mistakes on a regular basis, required a slimmed down version of an NFL offense?





Right. Garrett is no fool. He's been in the NFL, counting his playing days, for 30+ years. And around some of the game's great minds.

Look, maybe I'm being naive on this part, but I have to imagine he has spoken with Jones to get input on the offense and plays that Jones prefers. So I'm not quite buying - yet - this characterization that Garrett is trying to stick a square peg (Jones) into a round hole (his offense).

I'm betting Garrett AND Judge have more of an idea what they have in Jones and, along with more resources for '21, will design an offense that fits. Then it will be up to Jones to execute.



I agree 100%.

THey are both undoubtedly hitching their wagon to his star.

And I'll take it a step further and I think you'll agree...if his star fades - it should cost everyone their jobs.


So if Jones does not improve it is the coaching staff's fault? Gettleman has the full responsibility for DJ now and will be fired if Jones fails. If so, Judge should get a pass and deserves a chance with his own guy. And blaming Garrett, who has successfully developed Romo and Dak, is ridiculous.
How much did Garrett develop Dak and Romo?  
trueblueinpw : 5/14/2021 12:21 pm : link
Those guys are legit QB1s who worked under Garrett as an HC but they were also winners in college. They were not high draft picks or blue chips but they were both much more accomplished in college than Jones. And especially in Daks case, they both played in more challenging college programs than Jones and had more success. Kind of goes back to what many have said, Garrett isn’t a joke or anything, like maybe McAd’oh was a joke, but he isn’t a good fit for Jones. My add is that Jones wouldn’t be a good fit for most; maybe Andy Reid or McVay or Shanny could scheme him to credibility above .500 but he seems to have a Goff like limit in his potential.
RE: How much did Garrett develop Dak and Romo?  
UConn4523 : 5/14/2021 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15264100 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Those guys are legit QB1s who worked under Garrett as an HC but they were also winners in college. They were not high draft picks or blue chips but they were both much more accomplished in college than Jones. And especially in Daks case, they both played in more challenging college programs than Jones and had more success. Kind of goes back to what many have said, Garrett isn’t a joke or anything, like maybe McAd’oh was a joke, but he isn’t a good fit for Jones. My add is that Jones wouldn’t be a good fit for most; maybe Andy Reid or McVay or Shanny could scheme him to credibility above .500 but he seems to have a Goff like limit in his potential.


He probably developed them quite a bit, don't short change it just because of the college production. There was a reason why they were picked where they were. Its like saying Brady wasn't developed all that much and it just happened.

I view Jones/Garrett similarly - both need to up their games to stick around long term, only for Garrett if we succeed on offense he's going to leave to be a HC. Similarly if they fail, I believe Judge will do his best to lobby for both being replaced, and in Garrett's case I can see an in-season firing if we replicate 2020 for an extended period of time.
RE: offense … hamstrung Barkley out & receivers that couldn't separate  
Trainmaster : 5/15/2021 2:04 am : link
offense … hamstrung by Barkley out & receivers that couldn't separate
RE: offense … hamstrung Barkley out & receivers that couldn't separate  
Trainmaster : 5/15/2021 2:04 am : link
^^^
This!

RE: What pisses me off  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 5/15/2021 12:18 pm : link
In comment 15263331 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
is that this is Mara's guy. And I believe Mara thinks he is way smarter of a football guy than he actually is. Thus I can see there being an explicit or implicit understanding that Garret isn't going anywhere


I 100% agree Mara forced this but I'm not sure Mara thinks he's a football genius. I do think he runs the organization like a small family business preferring the hiring of familiar ppl if they're available.

Garrett was and still probably is the fall back option if JJ ultimately fails which just fits Mara's generally awful decision making perfectly
The whole “Mara thinks he’s smarter than he is”  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2021 12:31 pm : link
is a really weird take to me. Is that the same for any owners who’s team has been in a rut? What’s he doing now that’s different than 2007-11?

The Giants operate a certain way, a way that won them a bunch of super bowls. There’s modifications they will make but they aren’t going to drastically deviate from how they operate.

That said I don’t see Mara sticking with Garrett through two bad seasons just because. He fired Shurmur after two, there’s no reason to think he wouldnt move off of Garrett if he shits the bed.
.  
Go Terps : 5/15/2021 3:07 pm : link
I don't think 2007 or 2011 were the result of some organization-wide strategy...unless they found a way to clone Eli Manning's giant balls.
I would classify Garrett's seat as very warm  
dpinzow : 5/15/2021 3:40 pm : link
and potentially on fire if the Giants start slowly on offense in 2021
Whose seat is hotter?  
US1 Giants : 5/15/2021 4:23 pm : link
Garrett or Daniel Jones?
RE: Whose seat is hotter?  
Mike in Morris : 5/15/2021 5:56 pm : link
In comment 15264808 US1 Giants said:
Quote:
Garrett or Daniel Jones?


Garrett’s seat is hotter to start the season
If Jones sucks all year, I think he’s done. New QB in 21 draft.
RE: I would classify Garrett's seat as very warm  
Mike in Morris : 5/15/2021 5:57 pm : link
In comment 15264780 dpinzow said:
Quote:
and potentially on fire if the Giants start slowly on offense in 2021

+1
RE: If the Giants finish statistically  
Mike in Morris : 5/15/2021 6:03 pm : link
In comment 15263351 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
Garrett is more on the hot seat than anyone else in the organization IMO...that includes Jones and Gettleman btw.
+1
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