PFF: Andrew Thomas named Giants' most underrated player

All I “know” is that Thomas seemed to really come on the second half of the season..Looking forward to continued improvement with an OL coach that will hopefully stay around awhile…:)

In comment 15264211 Big Blue '56 said:

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All I “know” is that Thomas seemed to really come on the second half of the season..Looking forward to continued improvement with an OL coach that will hopefully stay around awhile…:)

Absolutely. I feel like some Giant fans and opposing fans across the league look too closely on his early struggles and not how mightily improved he was as the year went on. Same for Nick Gates. This line was on murder's row last year starting out.

In comment 15264223 Toth029 said:

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In comment 15264211 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: All I “know” is that Thomas seemed to really come on the second half of the season..Looking forward to continued improvement with an OL coach that will hopefully stay around awhile…:) Absolutely. I feel like some Giant fans and opposing fans across the league look too closely on his early struggles and not how mightily improved he was as the year went on. Same for Nick Gates. This line was on murder's row last year starting out.

Well put.

In comment 15264211 Big Blue '56 said:

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All I “know” is that Thomas seemed to really come on the second half of the season..Looking forward to continued improvement with an OL coach that will hopefully stay around awhile…:)

My favorite sentiment around here even though there was no offseason, he showed a ton of progression as season went on, and looked rock solid by the end, that he's still a giant question mark. Him and Gates are our knowns at this point. I'd be shocked if a talent like Thomas regressed.

PFF was much higher on Jones & Thomas last year than most.

With the progress. I would describe it more like that he looked like a complete bust to start and gave me hope by the end. I think he finished the year as a below average tackle that was improving.

Of the year. Stout.

In comment 15264224 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 15264223 Toth029 said: Quote: In comment 15264211 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: All I “know” is that Thomas seemed to really come on the second half of the season..Looking forward to continued improvement with an OL coach that will hopefully stay around awhile…:) Absolutely. I feel like some Giant fans and opposing fans across the league look too closely on his early struggles and not how mightily improved he was as the year went on. Same for Nick Gates. This line was on murder's row last year starting out. Well put.

I agree with both of you! The line played much better as the year played out. We can go on and on about last year, new coach, covid issues, no preseaon, first five game were against tough Defensive lines.

What needs to happen is continued improvement. This is where I believe Judge and company have stepped in starting last year with the 'firing' of Columbo.

I think that there was an article saying that his old coach or someone was amazed how much he was using a different technique (without having success early on). I don't know if he went back to his old technique after Colombo left or just losing Colombo or maybe nothing to do with Colombo or if he kept the same (new) technique and just naturally improved by reps and maturation.

In comment 15264262 Bill L said:

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I think that there was an article saying that his old coach or someone was amazed how much he was using a different technique (without having success early on). I don't know if he went back to his old technique after Colombo left or just losing Colombo or maybe nothing to do with Colombo or if he kept the same (new) technique and just naturally improved by reps and maturation.

Iirc, didn’t AT say he went back to his college techniques or something similar to that?

from Thomas in year 2. It seemed once we got past week 8 or 9 or so he settled in. Not sure whether that was just rookie-ness or new coaching, but it was working. Didn't hear a peep about the foot issue either. Really hoping we finally found or LT for the next 7-8 seasons.

and can still get stronger. Him, Jones, and Barkley are the key for playoffs in 2021.

The Giants lost 3 out of their last 4 games and pretty much got clobbered when they stepped up in class. And the games were never in doubt. Thomas gave up 5 sacks & lots of pressures to an Arizona edge, forgot the name, who parlayed that 1 game into a nice free agent contract. That said, Thomas played better in the 2nd in part because he was so bad in the first half. He has a ways to go to being good.

And this knocking Colombo is funny. Before last season, on this board and others, he was the greatest thing since sliced bread

Did not give up 5 sacks vs. ARZ. Try again.

I asked whether the change from Colombo was the reason for improvement.

Yes he did.

In comment 15264288 Samiam said:

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Yes he did.

If he gave up 5 sacks in that one game that means he only gave up 5 more in the other 15 games. He allowed 10 sacks for the whole season

turns out I was wrong. That's how things work sometimes, especially when collectively we all don't know what the fuck we are talking about for the most part.

In comment 15264299 montanagiant said:

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In comment 15264288 Samiam said: Quote: Yes he did. If he gave up 5 sacks in that one game that means he only gave up 5 more in the other 15 games. He allowed 10 sacks for the whole season

Tra Turner gave up 2 sacks ~ 9 games last year and he is considered garbage here.

in the top third this year for LT's. He is a worker. He has tape and experience of going against the edge rushers now. I thought he was very good in the run game.

Five hurries, though.
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In comment 15264307 Thegratefulhead said:

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In comment 15264299 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 15264288 Samiam said: Quote: Yes he did. If he gave up 5 sacks in that one game that means he only gave up 5 more in the other 15 games. He allowed 10 sacks for the whole season Tra Turner gave up 2 sacks ~ 9 games last year and he is considered garbage here.

Well you're comparing a rookie LT with a very limited offseason to a 6 year vet playing RG. I personally don't consider Turner as garbage.

Played the edge on Thomas’ side and got 5 sacks. If you saw the game, and I did and probably most of you did, Reddick destroyed Thomas. He did to Thomas what Osi did to Winston Justice of the Eagles years ago..

In comment 15264331 Samiam said:

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Played the edge on Thomas’ side and got 5 sacks. If you saw the game, and I did and probably most of you did, Reddick destroyed Thomas. He did to Thomas what Osi did to Winston Justice of the Eagles years ago..

Perhaps my memory is off, but I thought Redick was picking up sacks against both sides of our OL.

finale vs. DAL again the other day, and the entire Giants OLine was getting an excellent surge in the run game.

Thomas and Gates in particular seemed to be playing very well.

To have 2 young Pro Bowl-type players at those positions is a great situation. Lemieux is a beast too - they looked like they could run behind those 3 whenever they wanted.

In comment 15264332 Eric from BBI said:

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Perhaps my memory is off, but I thought Redick was picking up sacks against both sides of our OL.

Your memory is still good
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Even PFF said 2 sacks. He played both sides that game. The whole OL was bad but more than that, context. Daniel Jones was immobile and it was a bad decision to play him because he was a statue.

Also, Trai Turner played 9 games. Chargers dumped him for a reason.

played? A game where we were forced to go one dimensional fairly early? With an offensive line as a whole that is good at run blocking, but poor at pass blocking. With no skill players and a gimped QB? Football is a team sport. The fact that this team looked so damn bad when DJ shouldn't have even been playing is indicative of that offense last year as a whole. We didn't have RBs or WRs that scare anyone and the only real threat on offense to keep defenses honest was the read-option. We could only do what we did in Seattle because we controlled the game on defense and were able to run block well (Garrett also doesn't get enough credit for finding something at halftime there we were able to exploit.)

Shows how off that side of equation is

2 on Peart, 2 on Thomas, 1 on Zeitler.

Happens.

But I remember Thomas playing like Flowers played. When people say Thomas was improving towards the end of the year, that was true but comes off a pretty low base. The Arizona game took away my hopes that the Giants could compete to get in and do damage in the playoffs. In an important game, the Giants got manhandled and high on the list was what Reddick did to Thomas.

player drafted, first OT and an immediate starter.

On offense maybe Gates. On defense maybe Logan Ryan, Martinez or Tomlinson if he didn’t leave. All more appropriate picks...

Might as well see what the article actually said about him. Matches what a lot of posters have already said.

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With the performance of other rookie tackles such as Tristan Wirfs, Mekhi Becton and Jedrick Wills Jr., it would be easy to dismiss Andrew Thomas as a bad pick. However, the Giants extensively reworked his technique, and we saw far better play from him as the season wore on. He earned just one PFF pass-blocking grade below 59.0 over the second half of the season, whereas every single outing before Week 8 fell below that mark. Outside of one disastrous game against Arizona, his pass-blocking grade was above 70.0 from Week 8 onwards.

In comment 15264370 Samiam said:

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But I remember Thomas playing like Flowers played. When people say Thomas was improving towards the end of the year, that was true but comes off a pretty low base. The Arizona game took away my hopes that the Giants could compete to get in and do damage in the playoffs. In an important game, the Giants got manhandled and high on the list was what Reddick did to Thomas.

You're focusing on one game where Jones was injured. To be fair, before this thread I didn't know how many sacks Thomas gave up but it seems like you're wrong about that too.

In comment 15264288 Samiam said:

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Yes he did.

Or alternatively no he didn't. Any other stats we want to make up?

In comment 15264373 Jimmy Googs said:

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player drafted, first OT and an immediate starter. On offense maybe Gates. On defense maybe Logan Ryan, Martinez or Tomlinson if he didn’t leave. All more appropriate picks...

Better to say he’s a guy where the initial wailing and bitching created an overall impression which was not supported by the later data.

In comment 15264370 Samiam said:

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But I remember Thomas playing like Flowers played. When people say Thomas was improving towards the end of the year, that was true but comes off a pretty low base. The Arizona game took away my hopes that the Giants could compete to get in and do damage in the playoffs. In an important game, the Giants got manhandled and high on the list was what Reddick did to Thomas.

Watch him against Myles Garrett and Chase Young and you’ll feel better, he’s definitely better than Flowers ever was.

Thomas should get the benefit of the doubt with the AZ game. Putting Jones out there was a one of the few, but a really bad mistakes by Judge last year.

In comment 15264438 Bill L said:

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In comment 15264373 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: player drafted, first OT and an immediate starter. On offense maybe Gates. On defense maybe Logan Ryan, Martinez or Tomlinson if he didn’t leave. All more appropriate picks... Better to say he’s a guy where the initial wailing and bitching created an overall impression which was not supported by the later data.

Don’t disagree but that group wouldn’t refer to AT as underrated either.

Let’s just go with he’s not...

In comment 15264455 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 15264438 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 15264373 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: player drafted, first OT and an immediate starter. On offense maybe Gates. On defense maybe Logan Ryan, Martinez or Tomlinson if he didn’t leave. All more appropriate picks... Better to say he’s a guy where the initial wailing and bitching created an overall impression which was not supported by the later data. Don’t disagree but that group wouldn’t refer to AT as underrated either. Let’s just go with he’s not...

I’m not sure you’re comprehending the context. The argument is that AT is underrated relative to the tackles that were taken after him, after last season’s performances.

How do you not comprehend that?

That would be ideal

are safe bets to hold down their spots, at worst they should be OK. Both have upside to take a huge jump this year too. I don't think any sort of criticism on the unit as whole should minimize that those are two very promising young guys on the line. The problem is that they're the most reliable quantities heading into the season, they're essentially 2nd year guys that progressed in their rookie campaigns (Gates was a "rookie"). That shouldn't be the stable components of your line. On a stable unit, or at least a unit with realistic expectations, they're maybe 3rd, 4th or 5th guys mentioned.

It is what it is. You can't fix every unit every offseason. Odds are, you should be hoping for an upside of an average unit with a realistic expectation of them not being completely inept in pass pro. If they flatline in the pass game, and after losing Zeitler that is a real possibility, everything else is shot. Jones is either a bust or in this weird nebulous area where we are debating like crazy on here whether or not to option him and/or pursue a new QB, Barkley gets hurt or underperforms his green jacket expectations, Judge is in a weird spot, Garrett is certianly gone, etc. It's a big gamble heading into the season.

4 of the 5 starters last year were first time starters. You should expect that whole group to take a significant jump. Also, no one is talking about Peart. He was not even supposed to play last year. Solders opt out changed those plans. By all reports he has gotten a lot stronger. We should be set at tackle for years to come.

In comment 15264465 Bergen346 said:

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In comment 15264455 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: In comment 15264438 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 15264373 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: player drafted, first OT and an immediate starter. On offense maybe Gates. On defense maybe Logan Ryan, Martinez or Tomlinson if he didn’t leave. All more appropriate picks... Better to say he’s a guy where the initial wailing and bitching created an overall impression which was not supported by the later data. Don’t disagree but that group wouldn’t refer to AT as underrated either. Let’s just go with he’s not... I’m not sure you’re comprehending the context. The argument is that AT is underrated relative to the tackles that were taken after him, after last season’s performances. How do you not comprehend that?

Well, you can be confident I comprehend the context. Just as I also comprehend it as a silly choice and argument.

Comprendes?

And he no doubt deserves some leeway. And it was good to see Thomas improve as the season moved on. But the issue he had was the same one that plagued him at Georgia - his ability to stop speed EDGE rushers. When he gets his hands on you; it’s over. But guys - take Reddick for example - make him a turnstile. I think his best position is Guard, where he has can simply Maul the DT. I know it’s not what fans want from a 4th overall pick, but an all Pro Guard - think Zack Martin or Quentin Nelson (or even a Scherff or Robert Gallery, when he kicked inside) - are more valuable than league average tackles.

In comment 15264704 Giants38 said:

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And he no doubt deserves some leeway. And it was good to see Thomas improve as the season moved on. But the issue he had was the same one that plagued him at Georgia - his ability to stop speed EDGE rushers. When he gets his hands on you; it’s over. But guys - take Reddick for example - make him a turnstile. I think his best position is Guard, where he has can simply Maul the DT. I know it’s not what fans want from a 4th overall pick, but an all Pro Guard - think Zack Martin or Quentin Nelson (or even a Scherff or Robert Gallery, when he kicked inside) - are more valuable than league average tackles.

Couldn’t disagree more. He will be fine at LT. He’s needs to work on his hand placement and overall technique. He’s what 22 years old. With experience and coaching, I expect him to make a giant leap this year.

In comment 15264733 JoeyBigBlue said:

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In comment 15264704 Giants38 said: Quote: And he no doubt deserves some leeway. And it was good to see Thomas improve as the season moved on. But the issue he had was the same one that plagued him at Georgia - his ability to stop speed EDGE rushers. When he gets his hands on you; it’s over. But guys - take Reddick for example - make him a turnstile. I think his best position is Guard, where he has can simply Maul the DT. I know it’s not what fans want from a 4th overall pick, but an all Pro Guard - think Zack Martin or Quentin Nelson (or even a Scherff or Robert Gallery, when he kicked inside) - are more valuable than league average tackles. Couldn’t disagree more. He will be fine at LT. He’s needs to work on his hand placement and overall technique. He’s what 22 years old. With experience and coaching, I expect him to make a giant leap this year.

I hope you’re right. I really do. But it is problematic when the same problems that plagued him at UGA continue to show up in the NFL. People were enamored with him allowing no sacks at UGA, but that was more Fromm getting the ball out. But Thomas was consistently beaten off the edge at UGA.

Yes, players improve. But Wirfs was young last year and stepped right in. So have a lot of other guys and anchored their lines. And we said the same things about Flowers, etc. the reality is, sometimes young players just don’t get better; sometimes they do. Hopefully, Thomas falls in that latter group.