If you have seen any TV discussions on the New York Giants in the last few weeks, almost universally the same argument is made by every pundit:
"The Giants have done everything to surround Daniel Jones with talent. He is out of excuses. The fate of the team rests with him."
Then many of these same pundits use this as an opportunity to say they don't believe in Daniel Jones and that's why the Giants won't finish first in the NFC East.
While I do think there is a great deal of merit in what they say about how important QB play will be in determining the fate of the Giants, I'm surprised that none of these media discussions have addressed the elephant in the room:
For better or worse, the Giants did very little this offseason in addressing the offensive line, the well-known Achilles heel of the team for the past decade.
Kevin Zeitler was let go. Zach Fulton was added in free agency. Nate Solder returns as insurance depth. Jonotthan Harrison replaces Spencer Pulley as back-up center.
In other words, not much changed. As has been discussed nauseam on BBI, Gettleman and Judge are putting their faith in the new OL coaching (Rob Sale and Pat Flaherty) and the development of the young guys (Thomas, Lemieux, Gates, Peart, and even Hernandez).
But this argument that it is "all on Daniel Jones" doesn't address the fact that the franchise is taking a big gamble by standing pat on the OL. Now I'm optimistic about the OL, but if they don't make a big jump in their play, this offense is still going to have major issues. It won't be as bad as it was last year because the upgrade in the other skill positions has been so dramatic, but the OL still needs to keep Jones upright and open holes for Barkley and the other new running backs.
I just find it extremely odd that every pundit keeps saying, "it's all on Daniel Jones." I would argue, "much depends on Jones and the offensive line."
For me I feel good about the rest of the team. But it's hard to turn a bling eye to OL and QB deficiencies.
Going on the assumption that Judge and staff know what they're doing and can put a winning season together with this group - on paper much better than last year.
For me I feel good about the rest of the team. But it's hard to turn a bling eye to OL and QB deficiencies.
Going on the assumption that Judge and staff know what they're doing and can put a winning season together with this group - on paper much better than last year.
Typical casual fan. Even my wife knew we received the Bears’ first rounder for 2022..I never talk seriously with a casual fan..
- release Kevin Zeitler and sign Zach Fulton to compete for a starting Guard job
- presumably promote Matt Peart to starting Right Tackle job
Clearly the Giants are assuming the existing Olinemen will just play better and that sounds like quite a risky strategy...
My take is that I'm way more worried about the OL than the QB.
We all know 3 keys
Garrett's system
OL
Daniel Jones
We assume the defense will be very solid..top 10 if not top 5.
Judge knows the system must improve and get more creative....this must be priority behind close doors.
It is odd that so little was done with OL. I think familiarity and growth should improve 4 of the 5 spots...it is likely that Gates and Thomas will play better. LG and Peart should also show growth and improvement.....enough improvement? So RG is biggest question mark.
Rudolph should help.
Even Barkley, and new WRs should add value....
OL has been the team Achilles for a decade.....Gettleman has shown to have a good eye on OL talent.
But make no mistake, there’s a lot of pressure on Daniel Jones to perform even if the o-line isn’t significantly better. (Life ain’t fair.) That pressure isn’t about fans or media… it’s about his career. If he doesn’t convince the organization that he’s the man in the next 17 games, he might not get 17 more beyond that.
Well, he may have an "excuse" if the offensive line can't protect him. If you go back and watch the team last year, while there were times when Jones held onto the ball too long, for the most part, his sacks were the result of him having no chance.
If the line doesn't improve, it won't matter if they move onto a new QB in 2022. He will be facing the same problem as Manning and Jones.
I think Peart and Thomas are going to work out and, at least for this year, Solder is pretty good insurance. I am stunned when I think about the number of players who have been run through the RG position over the past 5-6 years. The best player, Brown, was allowed to leave without an attempt to get him to stay. Just hoping they can assemble an adequate LG-RG combination from among LeMieux, Hernandez, Fulton, and maybe Harrison or one of the Free agent veterans or UDFAs. Fulton may not rate highly but rarely does a players start so many games in the league who isn’t at least adequate.
If the line doesn't improve, it won't matter if they move onto a new QB in 2022. He will be facing the same problem as Manning and Jones.
You might be 100% right. We’ll see if Judge and his staff can accomplish what they’re hoping to with the same people on the o-line.
People also clearly dismiss Jones' first season. Yes he fumbled way too much, both his fault and his line's fault. Last year he showed a bit of regression - more if you hated the pick and less if you are willing to let him prove himself. He had no weapons and what weapons he did have were basically injured, including himself.
If he continues to fumble this year, time to move on. All QBs throw INTs, but there are bad ones. Remember 6 were caused by Engram getting hit in the hands - 6. The fumbles were down last year. But so were TDs.
I just hope JJ is correct that they can build the line with what they have. We all need to also understand most lines have 3-4 JAGS that playe well together.
Perfectly said Tuckrule I trust Judges vision....I'd also say last year teams dared us to run and were sending the house along with not having a great blocking TE which we have also added this year along with Barkley back.
The Giants have done plenty to support Jones. Can't expect a pro bowl player at every position.
I think Peart and Thomas are going to work out and, at least for this year, Solder is pretty good insurance. I am stunned when I think about the number of players who have been run through the RG position over the past 5-6 years. The best player, Brown, was allowed to leave without an attempt to get him to stay. Just hoping they can assemble an adequate LG-RG combination from among LeMieux, Hernandez, Fulton, and maybe Harrison or one of the Free agent veterans or UDFAs. Fulton may not rate highly but rarely does a players start so many games in the league who isn’t at least adequate.
Best player Brown? Did you mean Fluker?
I'm hopeful that Nate Solder at 33 years old, benefits from having a full season off. His body has taken alot of wear and tear over the years, so the rest possibly could help.
I'm hopeful that Jones will step up if the O-line shows some improvements and with all the skill players added to the team.
I'm also hopeful with all the extra 2022 draft picks, if things backfire at QB or O-line, we'll have the draft capital to make some course corrections if needed.
Being HOPEFUL has been the best I've felt about the Giants for a very long time entering a season. I'll take it!
OK but 1st, 3rd and 5th mean nothing if they stink and Solder continues to stink.
It is a team game. The oline needs to play well and stay away from injuries. The skill players need to play well and stay away from injuries. The coaches need to install good game plans and make adjustments. The defense needs to get off the field.
Too much gets put on the QB - both in terms of success and failure.
We had a really solid defense last year, and in Year 2 of Graham and a few additions through draft/free agency, I'd be surprised if it's not a top 10 unit.
Added Golladay, Rudolph, Toney, Barkley ... line is a question, but it was serviceable the second half of last year.
So it comes down to Jones. It's simple - if he improves, he gets another year. If he isn't cutting it, we will trade from our plethora of 2022 picks to get Russell Wilson or move up in the draft. If all goes well this year (and I know it rarely does), the team is poised to be quite good everywhere - QB could be the last piece. Similar to San Fran ... built a phenomenal roster, and if they were correct on Lance, they are going to be a force. I see Giants in a similar position.
It is a team game. The oline needs to play well and stay away from injuries. The skill players need to play well and stay away from injuries. The coaches need to install good game plans and make adjustments. The defense needs to get off the field.
Too much gets put on the QB - both in terms of success and failure.
I agree, it’s funny listening to the media talk about how Jones has no excuses now, etc. I’ve never heard the guy make an excuse about anything at all. If anything he has been overly critical of his own play when you consider the skill position players he was surrounded by last year.
Totally agree with you. If the team doesn’t let some of these younger players develop they’ll just keep picking offensive lineman in the first two rounds every year and other positions will be ignored.
"No more excuses". I know people hate the word narrative but this is a textbook narrative.
The media panders to the common fan.
They play off of each other.
They don't subscribe to ultimatums like "no more excuses". It's a completely different mindset.
I am optimistic because I think incremental improvements all over the offense will pay big dividends.
1) OL needs to improve this will help Jones. The good nes is they did down the stretch. The young guys also got experience.
2) Jones needs to improve his pocket presence. This will also help the OL. He may or may not, but the guy is working hard that is pretty clear. He has the physical tools.
3) Skill position play needs to improve. Defenses were not afraid of our receivers last year, that was pretty clear.
4) Offensive scheme. Garrett needs to be better. Period. He certainly has the added talent now.
I personally don't need to see Jones make this HUGE jump that many are talking about. I have seen enough from him that incremental improvement coupled with elevated levels of play and coaching from every facet of the offense can turn this into a very good team. That's where my optimism lies.
The FO and staff secured skill players that will give them a better chance of forcing the defense to defend the entire field. A defense can’t dictate and take away what you do well when you do multiple things well.
The OL “gamble” is quite like the OC “gamble” of last year. Gates paid dividends. I’m confident it’ll happen again. Each player incrementally improves and the scheme is more multiple because the skill players allow it to grow.
Lastly, the quarterback just needs to execute the gameplan and make a few off schedule plays a game. He’s capable.
Here’s to health and a hell of a lot more fun on Sundays.
The FO and staff secured skill players that will give them a better chance of forcing the defense to defend the entire field. A defense can’t dictate and take away what you do well when you do multiple things well.
The OL “gamble” is quite like the OC “gamble” of last year. Gates paid dividends. I’m confident it’ll happen again. Each player incrementally improves and the scheme is more multiple because the skill players allow it to grow.
Lastly, the quarterback just needs to execute the gameplan and make a few off schedule plays a game. He’s capable.
Here’s to health and a hell of a lot more fun on Sundays.
Great post.
Why? because it works.Ever since they drafted this guy,and it got the reaction it did,they've had a portion of the fan base in the palm of their hands.
People love hearing things like "No excuses".
Quote:
1st 3rd 5th round draft pick in 2020. Return of Solder and signed Fulton. Very few QBs stand behind the great wall. He can use his legs, his mind, or make an off schedule play. He is in the big boy league now.
OK but 1st, 3rd and 5th mean nothing if they stink and Solder continues to stink.
Be the guy. It is a lot of pressure, this is what it means to be the QB of the NY Football Giants. Do you have what it takes?
The good news is this OL while young has demonstrated ability to run block and they added a good blocking TE. If Garrett can get the offense into favorable down and distance there is good potential. If Barkley and the other backs are routinely tackled at the LOS or behind I think Jones and the Giants will struggle significantly. With Barley back and the improved receiving threats I expect the Giants to run for 135+ per game. Jones will then have to capitalize.
The good news is this OL while young has demonstrated ability to run block and they added a good blocking TE. If Garrett can get the offense into favorable down and distance there is good potential. If Barkley and the other backs are routinely tackled at the LOS or behind I think Jones and the Giants will struggle significantly. With Barley back and the improved receiving threats I expect the Giants to run for 135+ per game. Jones will then have to capitalize.
Well they were able to do that because the running game was superb. You could count on Tiki/Bradshaw/Jacobs getting 3-5 yards per touch.
In the second half, as the line deteriorated, and Bradshaw and Jacobs aged, they were getting hit in the backfield, and Jacobs could not power his way for those extra yards anymore. As the o-line deteriorated further, they could not sustain blocks for the 5-7 drops required in the Coughlin/Gilbride offense.
It all went back to the deterioration of the offensive line, and the lack of running game.
I really think we underestimate how big a deal it was to go into a new year with a new C that never played before there, and a rookie OLT that had 0 preseason games. Then we faced tough Ds right away, and SB got hurt. I think the OL and Jones improved after the first few games as they settled in. Imagine if those first few games were preseason, we’d have hit the ground in much better OL shape.
I hate the narrative that it’s all on DJ, and if he’s not Tom Brady now he suxed. The question is whether he’s developing, and continuing to develop. Same with the rest of the team. It may not happen instantly. As long as it’s moving forward it will be a relief after a decade of treading water.
The OL is a big question mark; and the biggest bet by the Gettleman and Judge heading into '21.
However, the success of the season still falls on Jones. Sure, it could get more challenging if the OL is inconsistent. But Jones is the 6th pick so he needs to figure it out.
It's a heavy burden being an NFL QB, especially a high investment...
No matter what the Giants decide to do with DJ moving forward, I will support them..But to his credit, even with a lack of a good OL, he was moving the team with his arm and his wheels, imv.
So, yes, I’m optimistic..
I really think we underestimate how big a deal it was to go into a new year with a new C that never played before there, and a rookie OLT that had 0 preseason games. Then we faced tough Ds right away, and SB got hurt. I think the OL and Jones improved after the first few games as they settled in. Imagine if those first few games were preseason, we’d have hit the ground in much better OL shape.
I hate the narrative that it’s all on DJ, and if he’s not Tom Brady now he suxed. The question is whether he’s developing, and continuing to develop. Same with the rest of the team. It may not happen instantly. As long as it’s moving forward it will be a relief after a decade of treading water.
People's patience and attention spans are probably shorter than ever before. There is also the need for instant gratification.
I know some would say that gratification is overdue since we really have sucked for about ten years, but that is also the inability to separate pre-2018 and post 2018. I understand how all that losing could get lumped together, but they have to be looked at as two different eras.
Fans need a villain or scapegoat or talking point. Enter #8.
If Jones looks like shit in 2021, the team likely played a big role in that. Coaches don't start QBs for very long unless they are certain the QB can play within the confines of the team they have built.
Or, you could be one the know it alls and claim to know more.
Never have bought Into the idea it s all on him, or this is his make or break year.
Seems he is often defined by mistakes other quarterbacks all around and he league make every Sunday
I saw Eli turn the ball over often during his career , but never be defined by them.