If you have seen any TV discussions on the New York Giants in the last few weeks, almost universally the same argument is made by every pundit:
"The Giants have done everything to surround Daniel Jones with talent. He is out of excuses. The fate of the team rests with him."
Then many of these same pundits use this as an opportunity to say they don't believe in Daniel Jones and that's why the Giants won't finish first in the NFC East.
While I do think there is a great deal of merit in what they say about how important QB play will be in determining the fate of the Giants, I'm surprised that none of these media discussions have addressed the elephant in the room:
For better or worse, the Giants did very little this offseason in addressing the offensive line, the well-known Achilles heel of the team for the past decade.
Kevin Zeitler was let go. Zach Fulton was added in free agency. Nate Solder returns as insurance depth. Jonotthan Harrison replaces Spencer Pulley as back-up center.
In other words, not much changed. As has been discussed nauseam on BBI, Gettleman and Judge are putting their faith in the new OL coaching (Rob Sale and Pat Flaherty) and the development of the young guys (Thomas, Lemieux, Gates, Peart, and even Hernandez).
But this argument that it is "all on Daniel Jones" doesn't address the fact that the franchise is taking a big gamble by standing pat on the OL. Now I'm optimistic about the OL, but if they don't make a big jump in their play, this offense is still going to have major issues. It won't be as bad as it was last year because the upgrade in the other skill positions has been so dramatic, but the OL still needs to keep Jones upright and open holes for Barkley and the other new running backs.
I just find it extremely odd that every pundit keeps saying, "it's all on Daniel Jones." I would argue, "much depends on Jones and the offensive line."
In fact I think they love Jones. I think he'll have to shit the bed for them to move on (and I don't think he will).
Everyone points to the draft picks for next year.. well they only got those because Smith was drafted by the Eagles. So they had no inclination of accumulating picks for QBs or otherwise. They are counting on Jones from what they are seeing from him in the film room, practice and on the field. I don't think Judge is in the "rationalization" business so I think he likes what he sees.
There is no "Make or break" thought process, it's let's get to the playoffs and make some noise.
I am selfish that way.
As I’ve maintained all along, I follow the “Fauci” or expertise in a given area..I trust the current regime’s beliefs, until otherwise proven to be wrong..After only 1 season (Covid, no preseason and building a new staff), I defer totally..
As I’ve maintained all along, I follow the “Fauci” or expertise in a given area..I trust the current regime’s beliefs, until otherwise proven to be wrong..After only 1 season (Covid, no preseason and building a new staff), I defer totally..
I'm with you. The difference is Fauci has a long record of excellence in his field. He's earned the trust we put in him.
I believe the Giants are entering 2021 with a major problem in the OL-Jones-Garrett relationship:
1. I don't think the starting OL is particularly good at pass blocking...particularly Lemieux and Hernandez. The tackles and the center are question marks..
I think there's an alternate universe where Jones can be an effective enough (though upper echelon) QB...one focused on getting him out of the pocket and the ball out of his hands (or him running it) quickly. I think that could work. But that's not the current reality.
"Not particularly good?"
C'mon. Why are you pulling punches here? I'm stunned. Me and you and bw have been agreeing a lot and now both of you guys are chickening-out on me?
"Not particularly good?" Did someone hack your account and this isn't the real Terps?
They were "bad" weren't they? And how confident are you in Peart? If he is no good and our guards we know may be also bad-- how does Jones - or any QB survive that UNLESS they are "Mahomes?" -- But Jones will never be Mahomes so does this mean he will always suck because he is not him?
I'd agree with that to the extent that we can't predict success. But its irrefutable that they have all the info on the player. Execution is a different and much bigger story than just Jones imo.
This is the first big gamble he’s taken. The Giants were so bad last year everything was low hanging fruit.
If the Giants don’t improve the output over Zeitler/Fleming — Jones is going to be in big trouble.
What if the O-line is playing well, and likewise Jones is playing well. The Giants start 6-2, hypothetically.
Then, Thomas goes down with a season ender. Then another linemen goes down for a season ender or extended time...
Excuse? Or just reality of the situation?
Would suggest that is not an excuse for Jones to start playing badly
The offense would likely not keep up its similar pace but it and Jones shouldn’t just go in the toilet either.
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at this point.
What if the O-line is playing well, and likewise Jones is playing well. The Giants start 6-2, hypothetically.
Then, Thomas goes down with a season ender. Then another linemen goes down for a season ender or extended time...
Excuse? Or just reality of the situation?
Would suggest that is not an excuse for Jones to start playing badly
The offense would likely not keep up its similar pace but it and Jones shouldn’t just go in the toilet either.
Well, I think that's kind of hard to fathom for me. Especially when we saw such a public display of what it can do to a QB as recently as a few months ago in the Superbowl.
Thank you, Britt. Reese does not deserve to be lumped in with those others under circumstances whatsoever.
He finished the game with a 52.3 passer rating, the worst of his career, while seeing 29 pressures, the most for a quarterback in Super Bowl history. Mahomes finished with zero touchdowns and two interceptions.
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Good quarterbacks don’t produce at the same level behind bad protection, but they do adjust and produce at the best of their ability.
I want to feel “this guy is doing pretty well given the circumstances,” and not “if only the circumstances were different, he might do well.”
But valid point.
But valid point.
I'm just saying, what Mahomes faced in that Superbowl, or those one or two games, Eli Manning, and now Jones, have faced in the majority of their games.
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where you can adapt. KC hit a breaking point with all those replacements and ultimately couldn’t handle a team that was peaking with its edge pressure.
But valid point.
I'm just saying, what Mahomes faced in that Superbowl, or those one or two games, Eli Manning, and now Jones, have faced in the majority of their games.
But then you are really questioning the competence of the guys picking the OL players and coaching them as well.
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In comment 15271089 Jimmy Googs said:
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where you can adapt. KC hit a breaking point with all those replacements and ultimately couldn’t handle a team that was peaking with its edge pressure.
But valid point.
I'm just saying, what Mahomes faced in that Superbowl, or those one or two games, Eli Manning, and now Jones, have faced in the majority of their games.
But then you are really questioning the competence of the guys picking the OL players and coaching them as well.
No, I'm waiting on them to get the right mixture of guys in place, with the right chemistry, and see them gel as a unit.
They think they have it. We'll see if that's true.
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The "put your trust in professionals, they know more than you stupid fans" argument falls apart when it's being towed by the same people who look back critically on Ray Handley, Marc Ross, Jerry Reese, Ben McAdoo, and on and on...those men were also professionals.
I'd agree with that to the extent that we can't predict success. But its irrefutable that they have all the info on the player. Execution is a different and much bigger story than just Jones imo.
Even further, look at McAdoo, imo he correctly ID'd that Eli wouldn't be successful with the combination of ability/talent that was on the roster. He wanted to move forward with Smith/Webb. He made the right call on the player but it didn't lead to wins.
Ultimately, for me, it will the the coming together (or not) of Gettleman's offensive line which will determine whether he was a successful GM in his rebuild.
That's my opinion, and that's always been my opinion.
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In comment 15271093 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 15271089 Jimmy Googs said:
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where you can adapt. KC hit a breaking point with all those replacements and ultimately couldn’t handle a team that was peaking with its edge pressure.
But valid point.
I'm just saying, what Mahomes faced in that Superbowl, or those one or two games, Eli Manning, and now Jones, have faced in the majority of their games.
But then you are really questioning the competence of the guys picking the OL players and coaching them as well.
No, I'm waiting on them to get the right mixture of guys in place, with the right chemistry, and see them gel as a unit.
They think they have it. We'll see if that's true.
Waiting on them to get the right mixture?
So burn thru a HOF QB and a #6 overall pick until the special sauce is found on the OL..quite a strategy to deflect responsibility here. No?
Manning, Jones, etc... It just didn't matter. The team goes as the offensive line goes. At least that's been the story of the past 20 years.
As far as "burning through the #6 overall pick", I would not classify it as being there yet. They are still really trying to build a line for him, and yes, now they are willing to take the field to see if they've built it.
Well like I said, we're waiting to see if they are right.
Their inaction in addressing it this offseason says they are happy with it. If the line sucks again, then that was a big mistake.
As far as "burning through the #6 overall pick", I would not classify it as being there yet. They are still really trying to build a line for him, and yes, now they are willing to take the field to see if they've built it.
Eli was the named starting QB for this existing front office in 2018 and 2019
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"burn through" a HOF QB. That was the prior regime.
As far as "burning through the #6 overall pick", I would not classify it as being there yet. They are still really trying to build a line for him, and yes, now they are willing to take the field to see if they've built it.
Eli was the named starting QB for this existing front office in 2018 and 2019
He was not the future and the entire offensive line unit was replaced completely 8 games into 2018. That's when the churn began.
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they have it fixed. So it better be otherwise more changes to how they do business are needed.
Well like I said, we're waiting to see if they are right.
Their inaction in addressing it this offseason says they are happy with it. If the line sucks again, then that was a big mistake.
Right and changes should be made because. as you say, this is the fatal flaw of the team over its past history.
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In comment 15271108 Britt in VA said:
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"burn through" a HOF QB. That was the prior regime.
As far as "burning through the #6 overall pick", I would not classify it as being there yet. They are still really trying to build a line for him, and yes, now they are willing to take the field to see if they've built it.
Eli was the named starting QB for this existing front office in 2018 and 2019
He was not the future and the entire offensive line unit was replaced completely 8 games into 2018. That's when the churn began.
He was certainly their near future otherwise that was a waste of time to keep paying him.
And the entire OL was not replaced midseason in 2018
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However, the success of the season still falls on Jones. Sure, it could get more challenging if the OL is inconsistent. But Jones is the 6th pick so he needs to figure it out.
It's a heavy burden being an NFL QB, especially a high investment...
Bullcrap.
How can you and terps ignore the OL to the degree you're doing other than a passing sentence on this subject? I'd expect this from the DG homers, but not the both of you. You've even been a heavy advocate for addressing the OL and you were very disappointed it was not addressed - and now it no longer matters or only a passing sentence you remark about it and then blow it off like it doesn't exist?
Saying that "Jones needs to figure it out," is like saying Julius Randle needs to figure out how to outplay all 3 of Durant, Harden, and Irving.
You and Terps know Jones is a pocket passer, don't you? How often will a pocket passer be good if his OL stinks? SO what are you going to do- throw all-time great QB's at me? C'mon if the OL stinks Jones can't be good. He's built for the pocket- not for being "Mahomes."
I have indeed said all offseason that the OL needs further upgrades. And I haven't backed-off that on this thread.
But that doesn't preclude Jones from not having to step up and perform better. Let's say the OL turns out to be good but Jones continues to struggle. Then it's very likely the season will be a failure.
However, if the OL struggles, and this is where I differ compared to most who think QB is just another spoke in the wheel, I still expect Jones to figure it out and find another way to make it work. Yes, Garrett and Judge are in that mix, too. But the bulk of the responsibility will still on Jones to execute. He was drafted to be a force multiplier. It's just that simple. Too many on this board act like he was drafted in the 6th round.
So undoubtedly the season hinges on Jones. Why the hell do you think we've made all of these investments - free agency and the draft - this offseason? To get Jones is a position to execute and score points.
And I know I don't know Jones is a pocket passer. Honestly, I have no idea what the hell he is yet. I do like the way he throws on the run to his right. And I like the way he can move out of the pocket to run. But he decision making prowess thus far in the pocket are below average, IMV, compared to the rest of the NFL QBs.
By mid 2018, the entire starting offensive line had been replaced through benching, injury, or being cut (never to return).
Here is Eric's recap from early 2019:
The Giants started the season with Nate Solder at left tackle, Will Hernandez at left guard, Jon Halapio at center, Patrick Omameh at right guard, and Ereck Flowers at right tackle. This group did not play well and the offense struggled mightily to score points. Indeed, there appeared to be no measurable improvement over the previous pathetic groups. The Giants began the season 1-7, scoring an average of 15 points in six of those losses despite the presence of Odell Beckham and Saquon Barkley.
Injury and an ineffectiveness soon led to shakeups up front. Halapio broke his ankle and leg in the second game of the season and was first replaced by John Greco and then Spencer Pulley, who was claimed off of waivers from the Los Angeles Chargers. The new regime also decided it had seen enough of Flowers and Omameh. Flowers was benched after the second game and replaced by second-year undrafted free agent Chad Wheeler. Omameh lasted a bit longer, starting the first six games before being cut in November. Greco first took his spot, then newcomer Jamon Brown, who was claimed off of waivers from the Los Angeles Rams.
The 2.0 version of the 2018 offensive line thus included Solder-Hernandez-Pulley-Brown-Wheeler. The best thing that could be said of this group was that it wasn’t as crappy as the previous group. Team scoring improved, but Pulley and Wheeler were clearly weak links. Brown looked the part, but demonstrated the same inconsistency that led to him being cut by the Rams. And it rapidly became apparent that the desperate Giants dramatically overpaid Solder, who did settle down more as the season progressed. (Unfortunately, it was the Giants’ failed attempt to land guard Andrew Norwell in free agency that led to the Giants acquiring both Solder and Omameh). While Hernandez experienced the expected rookie growing pains, he improved and was named to the All-Rookie team.
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In comment 15270873 Thegratefulhead said:
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FFS. I have been told all off season the running game and the OL were much better in the second half of the season.
True or not?
Was Thomas a lot better in the second half or more like a bust?
I watched games, I thought Daniel Jones had time in the second half of the year. I expect the Thomas to improve as do I expect, WH, SL, Peart to better. Zeitler will hurt some, but htat wasn't All Pro Zeitler anymore. I think Solder ~ Flemming with potential to be batter. Fulton is decent depth. Gates is in Year 2.
I am flat out saying that is going to have to be good enough and a franchise QB would elevate them. Time to put or shut up. Not asking him to be an All Pro. I am asking that he not suck so bad that we pick top 12. That is a pretty low fucking bar. If he can't get over it, he can GTFO.
If you want to look at 2nd half of the season with Jones - if that is your sole barometer than when you speak of what you saw- you saw Jones go 5-2 in the 7 games he started, right? SO if the OL showed you they could win, then so has Jones.
So if they lose why pin it soley on him? Unless you are giving him ALL THE CREDIT for 5-2? Then are you saying he was terrific at 5-2? If he isn't getting all the credit for 5-2 then why should he get all the blame if they lose?
And why are you assuming WH, SL and Peart to be better when WH showed you that he hasn't gotten better? If all young players get better then why are so many teams that draft so high for many years at the bottom seem to remain at the bottom for long periods of time? All their players didn't get better but the Giants are special and all theirs will? Says who?
And not to mention - but I will how some teams were ravaged by injuries and some teams draft well too- Dallas and Philly were ravaged by injury.
And for example don't you think Dallas thinks Parson blitzing either in the interior or out an edge vs Peart is to their advantage? SO how much does it matter that the bad OL improves a little if Dallas can expose it with a superior talent?
SO why are you looking at ONLY the Giants improving? You are throwing a wild dart implying the Giants OL is going to improve all because YOU SAY SO. What if you're WRONG and that OL stinks?
SO now OL's don't matter in the NFL because YOU SAY SO? Instead what's MORE IMPORTANT is where a player is drafted (Jones at 6) rather than performance from a 5 man-OL?
If that were the case - then using your philosophy why EVER should the Giants draft an OL? Just get 5 Free Agents and then the next year you could claim they will all get better and you'd be able to equally evaluate the QB 6th overall and then claim no more excuses, right?
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In comment 15271047 Britt in VA said:
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at this point.
What if the O-line is playing well, and likewise Jones is playing well. The Giants start 6-2, hypothetically.
Then, Thomas goes down with a season ender. Then another linemen goes down for a season ender or extended time...
Excuse? Or just reality of the situation?
Would suggest that is not an excuse for Jones to start playing badly
The offense would likely not keep up its similar pace but it and Jones shouldn’t just go in the toilet either.
Well, I think that's kind of hard to fathom for me. Especially when we saw such a public display of what it can do to a QB as recently as a few months ago in the Superbowl.
I am completely giving Jones a pass for 2020 so it is clear that I am not unreasonable.
I intend to put Jones on most of my Fantasy teams. I think he is going to have a top 10 year.
That is my opinion.
QB's have to make split second decisions. I thought the OL was good enough in the second half of 2020. Jones had no where to go with the ball. Now, he has excellent options everywhere with plenty of big play potential.
My bar is for the team is to not be bottom third of the league this year. I know it is a team game but the QB has a proportionally greater impact than other player on the field.
I basically want Jones to not suck and I am meeting resistance to that.
HOLY SHIT FUCK BALLS!!!
By mid 2018, the entire starting offensive line had been replaced through benching, injury, or being cut (never to return).
Here is Eric's recap from early 2019:
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So what did Gettleman do? He almost completely gutted the previous group. Justin Pugh (2013 1st rounder), Weston Richburg (2014 2nd rounder), and D.J. Fluker were allowed to walk in free agency. John Jerry was cut before the season started. Somewhat oddly, the only unrestricted free agent the team chose to re-sign was John Greco. Newcomers included Nate Solder (4 years, $62 million), Patrick Omameh (3 years, $15 million), and 2018 2nd-round draft pick Will Hernandez. Notably, Ereck Flowers (9th player taken in the 2015 NFL Draft), who the previous administration had refused to shift to right tackle, was finally moved to the spot that many argued would be his best position. The only real surprise coming out of the OTAs and training camp was that Jon Halapio beat out Brett Jones at center, with the latter eventually being traded to the Minnesota Vikings in late August. The new offensive line coach was Hal Hunter, a man with an uninspiring resume and who was also out of football in 2017.
The Giants started the season with Nate Solder at left tackle, Will Hernandez at left guard, Jon Halapio at center, Patrick Omameh at right guard, and Ereck Flowers at right tackle. This group did not play well and the offense struggled mightily to score points. Indeed, there appeared to be no measurable improvement over the previous pathetic groups. The Giants began the season 1-7, scoring an average of 15 points in six of those losses despite the presence of Odell Beckham and Saquon Barkley.
Injury and an ineffectiveness soon led to shakeups up front. Halapio broke his ankle and leg in the second game of the season and was first replaced by John Greco and then Spencer Pulley, who was claimed off of waivers from the Los Angeles Chargers. The new regime also decided it had seen enough of Flowers and Omameh. Flowers was benched after the second game and replaced by second-year undrafted free agent Chad Wheeler. Omameh lasted a bit longer, starting the first six games before being cut in November. Greco first took his spot, then newcomer Jamon Brown, who was claimed off of waivers from the Los Angeles Rams.
The 2.0 version of the 2018 offensive line thus included Solder-Hernandez-Pulley-Brown-Wheeler. The best thing that could be said of this group was that it wasn’t as crappy as the previous group. Team scoring improved, but Pulley and Wheeler were clearly weak links. Brown looked the part, but demonstrated the same inconsistency that led to him being cut by the Rams. And it rapidly became apparent that the desperate Giants dramatically overpaid Solder, who did settle down more as the season progressed. (Unfortunately, it was the Giants’ failed attempt to land guard Andrew Norwell in free agency that led to the Giants acquiring both Solder and Omameh). While Hernandez experienced the expected rookie growing pains, he improved and was named to the All-Rookie team.
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I know. Thought you were saying the OL that started 2018 were all replaced by mid season which was not the case.
And those new guys back then only became disappointments.
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so they are considered replacements from 2017.
By mid 2018, the entire starting offensive line had been replaced through benching, injury, or being cut (never to return).
Here is Eric's recap from early 2019:
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So what did Gettleman do? He almost completely gutted the previous group. Justin Pugh (2013 1st rounder), Weston Richburg (2014 2nd rounder), and D.J. Fluker were allowed to walk in free agency. John Jerry was cut before the season started. Somewhat oddly, the only unrestricted free agent the team chose to re-sign was John Greco. Newcomers included Nate Solder (4 years, $62 million), Patrick Omameh (3 years, $15 million), and 2018 2nd-round draft pick Will Hernandez. Notably, Ereck Flowers (9th player taken in the 2015 NFL Draft), who the previous administration had refused to shift to right tackle, was finally moved to the spot that many argued would be his best position. The only real surprise coming out of the OTAs and training camp was that Jon Halapio beat out Brett Jones at center, with the latter eventually being traded to the Minnesota Vikings in late August. The new offensive line coach was Hal Hunter, a man with an uninspiring resume and who was also out of football in 2017.
The Giants started the season with Nate Solder at left tackle, Will Hernandez at left guard, Jon Halapio at center, Patrick Omameh at right guard, and Ereck Flowers at right tackle. This group did not play well and the offense struggled mightily to score points. Indeed, there appeared to be no measurable improvement over the previous pathetic groups. The Giants began the season 1-7, scoring an average of 15 points in six of those losses despite the presence of Odell Beckham and Saquon Barkley.
Injury and an ineffectiveness soon led to shakeups up front. Halapio broke his ankle and leg in the second game of the season and was first replaced by John Greco and then Spencer Pulley, who was claimed off of waivers from the Los Angeles Chargers. The new regime also decided it had seen enough of Flowers and Omameh. Flowers was benched after the second game and replaced by second-year undrafted free agent Chad Wheeler. Omameh lasted a bit longer, starting the first six games before being cut in November. Greco first took his spot, then newcomer Jamon Brown, who was claimed off of waivers from the Los Angeles Rams.
The 2.0 version of the 2018 offensive line thus included Solder-Hernandez-Pulley-Brown-Wheeler. The best thing that could be said of this group was that it wasn’t as crappy as the previous group. Team scoring improved, but Pulley and Wheeler were clearly weak links. Brown looked the part, but demonstrated the same inconsistency that led to him being cut by the Rams. And it rapidly became apparent that the desperate Giants dramatically overpaid Solder, who did settle down more as the season progressed. (Unfortunately, it was the Giants’ failed attempt to land guard Andrew Norwell in free agency that led to the Giants acquiring both Solder and Omameh). While Hernandez experienced the expected rookie growing pains, he improved and was named to the All-Rookie team.
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I know. Thought you were saying the OL that started 2018 were all replaced by mid season which was not the case.
And those new guys back then only became disappointments.
My point was they were churning out and moving on by mid 2018 and that continued in to 2019 and 2020. This is the first offseason that they haven't continued that churn.
That indicates to me that they think they have the right group. Hence me saying that now it's time to wait and see if they are right about the unit they have built.
It was one game that they had no time for replacementS. I find the "KC Superbowl" argument to be weak.
my opinion.
The KC example is beyond weak. It is daft.
KC had two weeks after the AFC championship game to patch together a revised OL after both tackles were declared out. There was just no way to expect that unit to be ready to deal with top tiered pass rushers like Barrett, Paul, etc.
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It was one game that they had no time for replacementS. I find the "KC Superbowl" argument to be weak.
my opinion.
The KC example is beyond weak. It is daft.
KC had two weeks after the AFC championship game to patch together a revised OL after both tackles were declared out. There was just no way to expect that unit to be ready to deal with top tiered pass rushers like Barrett, Paul, etc.
Then we need to put to bed the notion that great QB's don't need an offensive line to be successful and stop calling it excuses.
You think Jones hasn't played with a line the caliber that Mahomes was burdened with against Tampa in the Superbowl? Eli Manning played with Ereck Flowers as his starting left tackle for three seasons.
These two guys have played with some rotational sh-t. Mahomes has not faced that adversity along the o-line. When he did, he didn't just have a bad game, he has the WORST game of his career by far.
It matters. So stop saying it doesn't if you don't like it when people point it out.
The chances there are other change ups this season...would suggest around 100%
Jones got sacked 45 times in 2020 in only 14 games.
Mahomes?
2018: 26
2019: 17
2020: 22
IT MATTERS.
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In comment 15270801 bw in dc said:
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I have indeed said all offseason that the OL needs further upgrades. And I haven't backed-off that on this thread.
But that doesn't preclude Jones from not having to step up and perform better. Let's say the OL turns out to be good but Jones continues to struggle. Then it's very likely the season will be a failure.
However, if the OL struggles, and this is where I differ compared to most who think QB is just another spoke in the wheel, I still expect Jones to figure it out and find another way to make it work. Yes, Garrett and Judge are in that mix, too. But the bulk of the responsibility will still on Jones to execute. He was drafted to be a force multiplier. It's just that simple. Too many on this board act like he was drafted in the 6th round.
So undoubtedly the season hinges on Jones. Why the hell do you think we've made all of these investments - free agency and the draft - this offseason? To get Jones is a position to execute and score points.
And I know I don't know Jones is a pocket passer. Honestly, I have no idea what the hell he is yet. I do like the way he throws on the run to his right. And I like the way he can move out of the pocket to run. But he decision making prowess thus far in the pocket are below average, IMV, compared to the rest of the NFL QBs.
If you think Jones is a good passer on the run then you're out of your mind. You will agree with me that if if if he stinks throwing on the move and he is a pocket passer then he can't be evaluated properly with a decent OL (I'm not even saying "good" - just "decent.").
You claim on your 1st sentence to me that the Giants needed upgrades to the OL. Why did they need upgrades in your opinion (I agree they did)? What's the purpose in your opinion?
And please explain the upgrades they have made to fill that purpose.
And you and I have been very critical of DG. Now you are coming back at me - asking me to justify his moves? Why would you even ask this absurd question to me if we both think he has been doing an overall lousy job up until this past year?
If you are NOT sold on Jones- then you don't think DG has been a crappy GM? If you think he has been a bad GM then how can you even pretend to ask me a question about justifying his moves?
And as evidenced in the Superbowl, it wasn't Mahomes "elevating" his offensive line.
It isn't just Mahomes. We've seen most QB's struggle with a poor OL. Sometimes those QB's aren't very good. Sometimes they are pretty good and succeed when the OL is better.
Daniel Jones will be the QB here this season. Even if this ends up being the daily thread people use to fire up the bullhorn
Jones got sacked 45 times in 2020 in only 14 games.
Mahomes?
2018: 26
2019: 17
2020: 22
IT MATTERS.
So how do the Giants not invest more in OL this past offseason?
How can confidence be given in the guys choosing Eli to start and then Jones if they are the same ones thinking the OL is sufficient. and every year they are wrong?
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I
I basically want Jones to not suck and I am meeting resistance to that.
HOLY SHIT FUCK BALLS!!!
It's not that you are meeting resistance to that - it's that you refuse to acknowledge that other people might be right that the OL might stink.
For some reason you are burying your head in the sand that the OL is incapable of being bad. As a result you must feel dug in and are arguing for argument sake.
Read Eric's original post again. He is essentially saying the OL has bene a problem. And fi it is - you seem to want to ignore it. You seem to think the OL is fine. But what if you are wrong?
If you are right about the OL- then yes - it's on Jones. But eric is specifically mentioning the OL was a problem and he says IF IF IF it remains. That;s different than what you are saying ie assuming the OL will be good etc.
I think it’s a huge risk. It’s Judges first gamble.