If you have seen any TV discussions on the New York Giants in the last few weeks, almost universally the same argument is made by every pundit:
"The Giants have done everything to surround Daniel Jones with talent. He is out of excuses. The fate of the team rests with him."
Then many of these same pundits use this as an opportunity to say they don't believe in Daniel Jones and that's why the Giants won't finish first in the NFC East.
While I do think there is a great deal of merit in what they say about how important QB play will be in determining the fate of the Giants, I'm surprised that none of these media discussions have addressed the elephant in the room:
For better or worse, the Giants did very little this offseason in addressing the offensive line, the well-known Achilles heel of the team for the past decade.
Kevin Zeitler was let go. Zach Fulton was added in free agency. Nate Solder returns as insurance depth. Jonotthan Harrison replaces Spencer Pulley as back-up center.
In other words, not much changed. As has been discussed nauseam on BBI, Gettleman and Judge are putting their faith in the new OL coaching (Rob Sale and Pat Flaherty) and the development of the young guys (Thomas, Lemieux, Gates, Peart, and even Hernandez).
But this argument that it is "all on Daniel Jones" doesn't address the fact that the franchise is taking a big gamble by standing pat on the OL. Now I'm optimistic about the OL, but if they don't make a big jump in their play, this offense is still going to have major issues. It won't be as bad as it was last year because the upgrade in the other skill positions has been so dramatic, but the OL still needs to keep Jones upright and open holes for Barkley and the other new running backs.
I just find it extremely odd that every pundit keeps saying, "it's all on Daniel Jones." I would argue, "much depends on Jones and the offensive line."
It isn't just Mahomes. We've seen most QB's struggle with a poor OL. Sometimes those QB's aren't very good. Sometimes they are pretty good and succeed when the OL is better.
Daniel Jones will be the QB here this season. Even if this ends up being the daily thread people use to fire up the bullhorn
The OL should not continue to be an afterthought. I think we saw more positives from Jones to think he can be a winning QB than we did from the OL to think they can be part of a winning offense/team. I liked the Thomas pick last year, even if he wasn't my first choice for OT. I still think he is a good player and expect him to get better. Last year, I thought both Lemieux and Peart were steals in the draft. They still may be. But, the blind faith in them and Hernandez (3/5 of the OL) is what I find troubling. What evidence is there that all 3 individually or combined will improve significantly enough? That is not to say they can't or won't. But, that seems to be plan a, b, and c.
And as evidenced in the Superbowl, it wasn't Mahomes "elevating" his offensive line.
Mahomes was a few weeks removed from a concussion, and once Tampa got to him, he looked a little shaky. Definitely a contributing factor that can’t be dismissed.
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In comment 15271004 giantstock said:
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In comment 15270801 bw in dc said:
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I have indeed said all offseason that the OL needs further upgrades. And I haven't backed-off that on this thread.
But that doesn't preclude Jones from not having to step up and perform better. Let's say the OL turns out to be good but Jones continues to struggle. Then it's very likely the season will be a failure.
However, if the OL struggles, and this is where I differ compared to most who think QB is just another spoke in the wheel, I still expect Jones to figure it out and find another way to make it work. Yes, Garrett and Judge are in that mix, too. But the bulk of the responsibility will still on Jones to execute. He was drafted to be a force multiplier. It's just that simple. Too many on this board act like he was drafted in the 6th round.
So undoubtedly the season hinges on Jones. Why the hell do you think we've made all of these investments - free agency and the draft - this offseason? To get Jones is a position to execute and score points.
And I know I don't know Jones is a pocket passer. Honestly, I have no idea what the hell he is yet. I do like the way he throws on the run to his right. And I like the way he can move out of the pocket to run. But he decision making prowess thus far in the pocket are below average, IMV, compared to the rest of the NFL QBs.
If you think Jones is a good passer on the run then you're out of your mind. You will agree with me that if if if he stinks throwing on the move and he is a pocket passer then he can't be evaluated properly with a decent OL (I'm not even saying "good" - just "decent.").
You claim on your 1st sentence to me that the Giants needed upgrades to the OL. Why did they need upgrades in your opinion (I agree they did)? What's the purpose in your opinion?
And please explain the upgrades they have made to fill that purpose.
And you and I have been very critical of DG. Now you are coming back at me - asking me to justify his moves? Why would you even ask this absurd question to me if we both think he has been doing an overall lousy job up until this past year?
If you are NOT sold on Jones- then you don't think DG has been a crappy GM? If you think he has been a bad GM then how can you even pretend to ask me a question about justifying his moves?
I MEANT TO PUT THIS AS A QUESTION
You will agree with me that if if if he stinks throwing on the move and he is a pocket passer then he can't be evaluated properly with a decent OL (I'm not even saying "good" - just "decent.")?
It was one game that they had no time for replacementS. I find the "KC Superbowl" argument to be weak.
HOLY SHIT FUCK BALLS!!!
I like the KC-SB example for the purpose of comparing what a QB(a good one)can and cannot do with a porous line.
I don't think that the comparison holds water if the argument made is "why didn't KC properly address the issue."
If that were the argument, I agree with the assessment that it would be a weak argument.
It’s almost as if they are planning to work around or disguise the issues on the OL. Judge gets coach of the year if he pulls it off...
If you think Jones is a good passer on the run then you're out of your mind. You will agree with me that if if if he stinks throwing on the move and he is a pocket passer then he can't be evaluated properly with a decent OL (I'm not even saying "good" - just "decent.").
You claim on your 1st sentence to me that the Giants needed upgrades to the OL. Why did they need upgrades in your opinion (I agree they did)? What's the purpose in your opinion?
And please explain the upgrades they have made to fill that purpose.
And you and I have been very critical of DG. Now you are coming back at me - asking me to justify his moves? Why would you even ask this absurd question to me if we both think he has been doing an overall lousy job up until this past year?
If you are NOT sold on Jones- then you don't think DG has been a crappy GM? If you think he has been a bad GM then how can you even pretend to ask me a question about justifying his moves?
I said I like the way Jones throws on the run. And going to his right, I think he's effective. Is he on the level of Mahomes or Rodgers on the run? Of course not. But looking at his skill set after two years, I think Jones looks better as a QB on the move versus a stationary QB in the pocket going through progressions.
Do I think that has to improve considerably in the pocket? Yes. Which is why I have raised the idea of improving the OL. But that doesn't mean I can't also expect Jones to display more ability to lift the play of the players around him.
My assessment of the OL was this at the end of the year - Thomas may actually be competent at LT and Gates popped out of nowhere. But both G spots and the RT were still major question marks (and, frankly, who the hell knows if Gates might only be a one hit wonder). So if we could improve at least two of those three, through free agency and maybe the draft, I think the offense would be on better footing moving into '21. And I understand that the Judge/Gettleman obviously feel differently, but I don't know what either has done to earn the fans' trust in that area. Judge failed on his two OL coaches and Gettleman's kryptonite has been solving the OL dilemma.
I was being rhetorical with my observation/question about the offseason spend/investments on the offensive side of the ball. It seems as clear as vodka to me that a key mission this offseason was to provide more playmakers for Jones. That seems without dispute...
I'm not looking to turn this into another Gettleman job review, btw. This is about Jones stepping up and performing like a high pick and producing more points.
Jones is a huge key but so is Williams. And Lawrence. And Bradbury. Thomas. They are all important. It's quite possible that this team goes as far as Thomas and Peart take them.
But it's the QB. And worse, it's a NY Giants QB. All rational discussion goes out the window. I've seen this movie before.
2018--the rallying cry around here. Look deeper.
It’s almost as if they are planning to work around or disguise the issues on the OL. Judge gets coach of the year if he pulls it off...
Or maybe an OL comprised of all 2nd and 3rd year players might be about to hit its peak. What an insane concept.
I think it’s a huge risk. It’s Judges first gamble.
I'm not sure it's much of a gamble for Judge. He isn't going anywhere and he knows it. He might be thinking he's a year away from really running the football operation.
The potential for competing agendas to impact decision making processes is all over the place.
Poor play design and play calling
Horrible OL
subpar WRs
Lost the starting RB in both seasons
TE who drops the ball and who has accounted for half of his INT's
Has not gone into a training camp as the starter yet and in fact only had I think 14 practices before the first game of last season.
Why is it all on Jones here?
The potential for competing agendas to impact decision making processes is all over the place.
Let me re-phrase — I agree it’s not a gamble for him per se, it’s a gamble on the field.
He’s not going anywhere, and if it fails he’s got plenty of cover.
For the here and now on the field, leaving the right side of the line on some combination of Fulton, Solder, Peart, and Hernandez is a gamble.
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without some pretty big fall outs in people’s careers.
It’s almost as if they are planning to work around or disguise the issues on the OL. Judge gets coach of the year if he pulls it off...
Or maybe an OL comprised of all 2nd and 3rd year players might be about to hit its peak. What an insane concept.
Everybody should have been peaking...that’s what you want to bring into your year-end performance evaluation meeting with?
Save time and update your resume now...
Then we need to put to bed the notion that great QB's don't need an offensive line to be successful and stop calling it excuses.
You think Jones hasn't played with a line the caliber that Mahomes was burdened with against Tampa in the Superbowl? Eli Manning played with Ereck Flowers as his starting left tackle for three seasons.
These two guys have played with some rotational sh-t. Mahomes has not faced that adversity along the o-line. When he did, he didn't just have a bad game, he has the WORST game of his career by far.
It matters. So stop saying it doesn't if you don't like it when people point it out.
You're distorting the point. No one has ever suggested a QB doesn't need a functioning OL. It's just that top QBs don't need a Berlin Wall to optimize their ability to create points.
Furthermore, those two weeks leading into the SB for KC were a mess on multiple levels. Thy lost both Ts, it was revealed Reid's kid had nearly killed a kid while drinking and driving, Reid obviously wasn't focused with his game-planning, etc. Thus, I have little doubt that Mahomes and Reid could have found a solution to play better if the circumstances were different.
So using that situation to support you point simply doesn't apply...
Let me re-phrase — I agree it’s not a gamble for him per se, it’s a gamble on the field.
He’s not going anywhere, and if it fails he’s got plenty of cover.
For the here and now on the field, leaving the right side of the line on some combination of Fulton, Solder, Peart, and Hernandez is a gamble.
And agree. There is a TON of inexperience and unknowns with this OL. So it's absolutely a gamble.
Less of a gamble, for example, would be bringing in new OLs through free agency who actually had proven to be competent in NFL games...
This pay off for Judge when the dust settles. But it's a gamble. And a big one...
Yeah I don’t get it. Judge secretly hoping the OL stinks so he can take full power? Sounds like a Game of Thrones storyline.
Optimistic about D. Jones, The O.L., the Defense the
Running Game, the WRs and the Coaching Staff.
Maybe no Superbowl this year, but soon, Baby, soon!
P.S.: I don't read or listen to the Sports Media.
They are mostly full of it with a Capital S.
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that there is any other agenda other than winning for a NFL coach highlights the absurdity that these threads bring out.
Yeah I don’t get it. Judge secretly hoping the OL stinks so he can take full power? Sounds like a Game of Thrones storyline.
That's a bit simplistic. I was thinking more along the lines of Judge being in a can't lose position: if the current setup works, great. If not, he's going to get to do it his way a year from now with his OC, a quarterback he picks, and an OL he continues to build.
I view the coaches and front office as two groups: the people that were there before January 2020, and the people that got there after January 2020. The people in the first group aren't as secure as the people in the second.
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In comment 15271080 Britt in VA said:
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I
I basically want Jones to not suck and I am meeting resistance to that.
HOLY SHIT FUCK BALLS!!!
It's not that you are meeting resistance to that - it's that you refuse to acknowledge that other people might be right that the OL might stink.
For some reason you are burying your head in the sand that the OL is incapable of being bad. As a result you must feel dug in and are arguing for argument sake.
Read Eric's original post again. He is essentially saying the OL has bene a problem. And fi it is - you seem to want to ignore it. You seem to think the OL is fine. But what if you are wrong?
If you are right about the OL- then yes - it's on Jones. But eric is specifically mentioning the OL was a problem and he says IF IF IF it remains. That;s different than what you are saying ie assuming the OL will be good etc.
Britt...fuck everybody else, because you are reasonable. Do you think the OL was decent in the second half of the year, after Columbo left and Thomas started performing not like a windmill in quicksand?
Because I thought it did. We won games, the running with retreads were respectable and productive and I thought the protection decent but Jones still looked indecisive.
Meaning, Jones had ... time but no where to go with the ball?
Am I the only one that saw that?
I have never been a person to ignore reality.
When I say no excuses, I mean reasonably no excuses. I don't feel like I have to include a statement warning:
Attention BBI posters, when I say "no excuses" I mean that as a reasonable person. Of course if the OL regresses and looks like a fucking hot mess it will change my position on excuses.
Let me post like I care about wadded panties.
Example:
In the year 2021 while playing quarterback for the New York Giants during regular season games I intend to hold Jones accountable for playing the position at a middle of the league level as long as the roster is not riddled with injuries at an above league average level or a single unit is not decimated.
This expectation comes with the caveat that young players should reasonably expected to on average grow as players. Some young players may regress but others will make a jump and on balance we will expect them to perform at or near the level as they performed the the last 8 games of the previous season.
Instead, couldn't I just say Jones needs to not suck in 2021 based on the talent currently on the team without controversy?
FFS this place gets uptight sometimes.
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In comment 15271132 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 15271080 Britt in VA said:
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I
I basically want Jones to not suck and I am meeting resistance to that.
HOLY SHIT FUCK BALLS!!!
It's not that you are meeting resistance to that - it's that you refuse to acknowledge that other people might be right that the OL might stink.
For some reason you are burying your head in the sand that the OL is incapable of being bad. As a result you must feel dug in and are arguing for argument sake.
Read Eric's original post again. He is essentially saying the OL has bene a problem. And fi it is - you seem to want to ignore it. You seem to think the OL is fine. But what if you are wrong?
If you are right about the OL- then yes - it's on Jones. But eric is specifically mentioning the OL was a problem and he says IF IF IF it remains. That;s different than what you are saying ie assuming the OL will be good etc.
Britt...fuck everybody else, because you are reasonable. Do you think the OL was decent in the second half of the year, after Columbo left and Thomas started performing not like a windmill in quicksand?
Because I thought it did. We won games, the running with retreads were respectable and productive and I thought the protection decent but Jones still looked indecisive.
Meaning, Jones had ... time but no where to go with the ball?
Am I the only one that saw that?
I have never been a person to ignore reality.
When I say no excuses, I mean reasonably no excuses. I don't feel like I have to include a statement warning:
Attention BBI posters, when I say "no excuses" I mean that as a reasonable person. Of course if the OL regresses and looks like a fucking hot mess it will change my position on excuses.
Let me post like I care about wadded panties.
Example:
In the year 2021 while playing quarterback for the New York Giants during regular season games I intend to hold Jones accountable for playing the position at a middle of the league level as long as the roster is not riddled with injuries at an above league average level or a single unit is not decimated.
This expectation comes with the caveat that young players should reasonably expected to on average grow as players. Some young players may regress but others will make a jump and on balance we will expect them to perform at or near the level as they performed the the last 8 games of the previous season.
Instead, couldn't I just say Jones needs to not suck in 2021 based on the talent currently on the team without controversy?
FFS this place gets uptight sometimes.
I did, and apparently they (the Giants) did too, hence their gamble to let it ride.
As I’ve said multiple times on this thread, now we wait and see if they (and what we think we saw) were right.
If the offensive line is average and can hold up for 17 games, I think you see a vastly improved offense and therefore a vastly improved Jones. If it doesn’t hold up and we have a season resembling the last two or three, all bets are off.
I think an average NFL QB could win our division(not run away with it IE 11-6) with the talent on this team and the man coaching it.
Yes, including our OL.
Is that crazy or unreasonable to believe?
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In comment 15271170 giantstock said:
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In comment 15271132 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 15271080 Britt in VA said:
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I
I basically want Jones to not suck and I am meeting resistance to that.
HOLY SHIT FUCK BALLS!!!
It's not that you are meeting resistance to that - it's that you refuse to acknowledge that other people might be right that the OL might stink.
For some reason you are burying your head in the sand that the OL is incapable of being bad. As a result you must feel dug in and are arguing for argument sake.
Read Eric's original post again. He is essentially saying the OL has bene a problem. And fi it is - you seem to want to ignore it. You seem to think the OL is fine. But what if you are wrong?
If you are right about the OL- then yes - it's on Jones. But eric is specifically mentioning the OL was a problem and he says IF IF IF it remains. That;s different than what you are saying ie assuming the OL will be good etc.
Britt...fuck everybody else, because you are reasonable. Do you think the OL was decent in the second half of the year, after Columbo left and Thomas started performing not like a windmill in quicksand?
Because I thought it did. We won games, the running with retreads were respectable and productive and I thought the protection decent but Jones still looked indecisive.
Meaning, Jones had ... time but no where to go with the ball?
Am I the only one that saw that?
I have never been a person to ignore reality.
When I say no excuses, I mean reasonably no excuses. I don't feel like I have to include a statement warning:
Attention BBI posters, when I say "no excuses" I mean that as a reasonable person. Of course if the OL regresses and looks like a fucking hot mess it will change my position on excuses.
Let me post like I care about wadded panties.
Example:
In the year 2021 while playing quarterback for the New York Giants during regular season games I intend to hold Jones accountable for playing the position at a middle of the league level as long as the roster is not riddled with injuries at an above league average level or a single unit is not decimated.
This expectation comes with the caveat that young players should reasonably expected to on average grow as players. Some young players may regress but others will make a jump and on balance we will expect them to perform at or near the level as they performed the the last 8 games of the previous season.
Instead, couldn't I just say Jones needs to not suck in 2021 based on the talent currently on the team without controversy?
FFS this place gets uptight sometimes.
I did, and apparently they (the Giants) did too, hence their gamble to let it ride.
As I’ve said multiple times on this thread, now we wait and see if they (and what we think we saw) were right.
If the offensive line is average and can hold up for 17 games, I think you see a vastly improved offense and therefore a vastly improved Jones. If it doesn’t hold up and we have a season resembling the last two or three, all bets are off.
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If you think Jones is a good passer on the run then you're out of your mind. You will agree with me that if if if he stinks throwing on the move and he is a pocket passer then he can't be evaluated properly with a decent OL (I'm not even saying "good" - just "decent.").
You claim on your 1st sentence to me that the Giants needed upgrades to the OL. Why did they need upgrades in your opinion (I agree they did)? What's the purpose in your opinion?
And please explain the upgrades they have made to fill that purpose.
And you and I have been very critical of DG. Now you are coming back at me - asking me to justify his moves? Why would you even ask this absurd question to me if we both think he has been doing an overall lousy job up until this past year?
If you are NOT sold on Jones- then you don't think DG has been a crappy GM? If you think he has been a bad GM then how can you even pretend to ask me a question about justifying his moves?
I said I like the way Jones throws on the run. And going to his right, I think he's effective. Is he on the level of Mahomes or Rodgers on the run? Of course not. But looking at his skill set after two years, I think Jones looks better as a QB on the move versus a stationary QB in the pocket going through progressions.
Do I think that has to improve considerably in the pocket? Yes. Which is why I have raised the idea of improving the OL. But that doesn't mean I can't also expect Jones to display more ability to lift the play of the players around him.
My assessment of the OL was this at the end of the year - Thomas may actually be competent at LT and Gates popped out of nowhere. But both G spots and the RT were still major question marks (and, frankly, who the hell knows if Gates might only be a one hit wonder). So if we could improve at least two of those three, through free agency and maybe the draft, I think the offense would be on better footing moving into '21. And I understand that the Judge/Gettleman obviously feel differently, but I don't know what either has done to earn the fans' trust in that area. Judge failed on his two OL coaches and Gettleman's kryptonite has been solving the OL dilemma.
I was being rhetorical with my observation/question about the offseason spend/investments on the offensive side of the ball. It seems as clear as vodka to me that a key mission this offseason was to provide more playmakers for Jones. That seems without dispute...
I'm not looking to turn this into another Gettleman job review, btw. This is about Jones stepping up and performing like a high pick and producing more points.
But we didn't improve the OL. They didn't make the upgrades did they? So if they didn't do the changes you suggested - your statement of needing an OL - then was basically meaningless then, right?
Because if it all comes down to Jones - and they didn't do what you thought they should have in order to help him- it was and still remains a meaningless comment from you, right?
I say this flippantly - not in anger- --- They did shit to give Jones the help that YOU thought they should and you don't give a fuck if they did give him OL help or not; it's because it's all on Jones regardless of your OL suggestions for help, right?
Re: some of the other stuff...
...the OLine was addressed in 2020. FFS allow the new players to play.
Whatever it is that we think that we know about the OLine, the QB or anything else, we don't know what those that seem to be content sticking with things as they are, do.
Re: some of the other stuff...
...the OLine was addressed in 2020. FFS allow the new players to play.
Whatever it is that we think that we know about the OLine, the QB or anything else, we don't know what those that seem to be content sticking with things as they are, do.
So the lack of drafting does not mean they are satisfied with the OL.
I’m in favor of looking into a trade during training camp. I bet they can get their hands on a reasonable interior OL if they can keep their ear to the ground and their antennae up.
It's just not feasible for any QB in the NFL to have completely ideal circumstances for success - for the majority of teams there's always going to be some deficiency some where else in the offense, and the offensive line is a very common place where that deficiency lies. There may be only 3 or 4 teams in the league right now I would describe as having a strong OLine.
And frankly, the stress over how the OLine will perform feels a lot like people preemptively trying to make an excuse for how Jones may perform this year. We had a lot of that going on here during Eli's final years and it was pretty tiresome to hear. In today's NFL it's almost a necessity to have a QB that can compensate for bad play on the OLine.
But the bottom line is that reasonable fans should be able to judge how much of Jones' performance is affected by poor protection. And it's a rational assessment to say that the Giants have done enough in the offseason to make this a legitimately competitive team. If the OLine turns out to be THAT bad this year, then at the end of the day no one is going to hang that on Jones if he shows improvement.
It assumes the OL won't improve without adding other players.
That's unanswerable right now, but the prevaling opinion among many on this thread is that the 2021 OL will be the 2020 version because there's no significant personnel changes.
2. The team has upgraded the weapons immensely just by adding Barkley back, let alone Golladay, Toney, Rudolph
3. OL has a top 5 LT and investments via the draft
4. Team didn't appear to reach in the draft in the top 4 rounds
5. Other than the Tomlinson loss, could argue the defense is actually better on paper with the additions at CB and Edge
5. Good draft capital for 2022 and beyond
So yeah, Jones absolutely needs to take the leap and play awesome this year. But even if he struggles a bit, and he likely will, team should still be good enough to win when he isn't at his best.
If we are being honest with ourselves, they should win this division. If they don't, and miss the playoffs again, they likely will have a good chance to draft a QB if they want.
If you want to invest in the draft along the OL, you have to be a little patient to see how it plays out. You can't have it both ways.
This OL is completely different in terms of the actual players from 2018-2019 to now. Give it a bit of time for these guys to play together over a season or two.
It assumes the OL won't improve without adding other players.
Who is saying the OL can't improve? The point I am making - and a few others - is that the OL is the biggest gamble going into '21 because of what we don't know. Because it's pretty indisputable this unit is short on production and experience.
Had we added, instead, proven/better players via free agency, why wouldn't it be a safe assumption that the OL would therefore be better in '21?
As far as the OL
1-- Eric is questioning.
2-- Sy has questioned the interior.
3-- Bill Polian has questioned it.
we've even had well-respected poster jonc speak of the OL being a concern.
There's big money in Giants overunder at 7 wins which means there are a lot of people that think the Giants are no damn good. They could be all wet but it is possible they aren't. It's not like this is an opinion from left field. It's a legit question.
How about keeping an open mind instead of cheerleading that it's not possible that this OL is going to stink?
It's just not feasible for any QB in the NFL to have completely ideal circumstances for success - for the majority of teams there's always going to be some deficiency some where else in the offense, and the offensive line is a very common place where that deficiency lies. There may be only 3 or 4 teams in the league right now I would describe as having a strong OLine.
Exactly. Those are two situations that be addressed simultaneously - the OL could use upgrades, but it's still up to Jones to be much better than he is.
And it's completely reasonable to expect Jones to have the skills to make the OL better because he wasn't drafted to be just another spoke in the wheel.
It's funny - it seems nearly everyone expected Barkley to be great and light it up right way. To be a "gold jacket" player.
But for Jones, who was picked only a few slots later than SB, the expectations are almost opposite. Like he's a newborn - "Hey, Danny took his first step!"..."Hey, Danny said his first words!"..."Hey, Danny knows how to pee without the diapers!"..."Hey, Danny count to ten!"...
Had we added, instead, proven/better players via free agency, why wouldn't it be a safe assumption that the OL would therefore be better in '21?
We all know no one said it. It’s just this guy being this guy.
The slot that he was chosen only matters to those who are spending money and draft geeks.
If the coach believes in a player he couldn’t give two shits whether he was taken at 6 or 60.
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that they didn't "improve" the OL has one significant logic error.
It assumes the OL won't improve without adding other players.
Who is saying the OL can't improve? The point I am making - and a few others - is that the OL is the biggest gamble going into '21 because of what we don't know. Because it's pretty indisputable this unit is short on production and experience.
Had we added, instead, proven/better players via free agency, why wouldn't it be a safe assumption that the OL would therefore be better in '21?
Yeah, not sure what the point of that was. In fact, the main logic behind any improvement is it actually has to come from the existing unit which has been suggested and/or inferred by several already.
Again, if Judge can make it come together with largely same unit year over year then hats off to him on developing his OL players. It will have been something new that this organization has not seen in a long time...
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It's funny - it seems nearly everyone expected Barkley to be great and light it up right way. To be a "gold jacket" player.
It's funny that you're exaggerating that Barkley was a good pick when in fact I wonder if you were one just like me that desised the pick.
In fact there were many, many that knew that it was a bid pick.
You didn't feel that it was a bad pick? In 3 years has he performed like a golden jacket? I don't see him getting the same criticism and he was number 2.
We've heard for how many years the comment the mots important ability is availability.
Some of you have imo going extreme with your hate for Jones. Really weird.
So the lack of drafting does not mean they are satisfied with the OL.
I’m in favor of looking into a trade during training camp. I bet they can get their hands on a reasonable interior OL if they can keep their ear to the ground and their antennae up.
Going thru an entire free agent period and draft and only adding Fulton as a potential replacement at Guard for loss of Zeitler absolutely means they are satisfied with the OL. Especially when they traded down twice, skipping over OL prospects, and added picks largely just for next year in the process.
How can you conclude otherwise?
How about quite probable?
Quote:
First two rounds but didn’t because of how things fell out.
So the lack of drafting does not mean they are satisfied with the OL.
I’m in favor of looking into a trade during training camp. I bet they can get their hands on a reasonable interior OL if they can keep their ear to the ground and their antennae up.
Going thru an entire free agent period and draft and only adding Fulton as a potential replacement at Guard for loss of Zeitler absolutely means they are satisfied with the OL. Especially when they traded down twice, skipping over OL prospects, and added picks largely just for next year in the process.
How can you conclude otherwise?
Does this mean they are also satisfied with the QB?