Why does Shurmur appear to have a better rep than McAdoo...

And then scoring 20 points in a game was like winning the SB?

McAdoo was better here.

Shurmur has a much more decorated resume though so it isn't surprised he is where he is at and McAdoo is where he is.

End of thread

In comment 15273104 robbieballs2003 said:

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Shurmur has a much more decorated resume though so it isn't surprised he is where he is at and McAdoo is where he is.

Well, Shurmur could have kept Spags and he opted against it.

breaking Eli’s streak for Geno Smith has something to do with McAdoo sentiment

Shurmur offense was decent....it was the disaster of the defense.

McAdoo success stems from the defense..that he had little to do with....actually both he and McCarthy seem to benefit from Rogers.

In comment 15273106 Sean said:

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In comment 15273104 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Shurmur has a much more decorated resume though so it isn't surprised he is where he is at and McAdoo is where he is. Well, Shurmur could have kept Spags and he opted against it.

And? I'm agreeing that McAdoo was better than Shurmur. But I am saying that Shurmur is getting other chances because he has a much better resume. Being a HC is completely different than being a coordinator and positional coach. McAdoo's resume isn't that great.

Was pretty good. 12th in PPG '14, 6th in '15.

Granted, it sucked when he was an HC, but at least the Giants went 11-5 in 2016.

As for benching Eli for Geno, whatever, it's hard for me personally to give too much of a shit about that. Eli was pretty shell shocked and cooked by that point anyway. I think hindsight kind of shows that to be the case.

Either way, at least McAdoo had some positives he contributed when he was here, in the form of 2 good offensive seasons as OC and the most recent playoff season. Shurmur did nothing positive.

In comment 15273108 George from PA said:

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Shurmur offense was decent....it was the disaster of the defense. McAdoo success stems from the defense..that he had little to do with....actually both he and McCarthy seem to benefit from Rogers.

Said it in my previous post, but the Giants offense was pretty good when McAdoo was OC.

Eli's stats actually noticeably improved, although I think a some of that is built into the vastly difference systems Gilbride and McAdoo ran.

I think Shurmur was such a joke people don't even register him. Mac had potential and shit the bed so it felt worse. Just my take.

McAdoo from year 1 to year 2 was like the stereotypical tv series protagonist that at the season 1 finale was a great dude, came out on top... Then the season 2 premiere hits and he's changed, became full of himself, just goes full shitheel. The hair, the shades, the arrogance. The optics were just terrible. Turned people off in a big way. Like dude we know you aren't fly. You're still a fat dude in an even fatter guys suit. If youre gonna play your hand that way, you HAVE to win. HAVE to. He took all his benefit of the doubt and lit it on fire. Played it just terribly.

I’d take the bullet

To try and be fair to him, I think it was in part in a vain, last ditch effort to prove he wasn’t the problem.

The Shurmur era was strangely emotionless, and gratefully brief. But he never spent time spewing quotes he stole from the leadership books he was reading, like McAdoo did.

Both were mediocre coaches. Shurmur was less cringeworthy, I think that’s why he isn’t remembered as badly.

Is a good OC, but just isn’t a Head Coach.

Kind of apples to oranges.

I feel only fair McAdoo/Shurmur comparison is as HC.

Neither were great HC

And then a year later he went on to bitch about his time here. He took no accountability for his failures.

In comment 15273127 George from PA said:

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Kind of apples to oranges. I feel only fair McAdoo/Shurmur comparison is as HC. Neither were great HC

I didn't intend to compare them on an apples to apples basis, I was just talking about their reputation amongst Giants fans.

Shurmur was just bad at everything he did as a Giant. McAdoo was at least good at something at some point. Yet for some reason, Giants fans appear to viscerally hate McAdoo and give Shurmur a pass, when IMO, Shurmur was far more useless. Dude was a bad hire from the start and pretty much everyone knew it.

I agree completely
Link - ( New Window )

Granted he was in over his head as a HC, but he is a real professional coach.

McAdoo? Give me a break. He's been riding on Rodgers' coattails. He just plain got lucky in his first year as NYG HC, then reality bit him the following year and he imploded like a water balloon in a 500-ton sheet metal press.

In comment 15273133 Red Dog said:

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Granted he was in over his head as a HC, but he is a real professional coach. McAdoo? Give me a break. He's been riding on Rodgers' coattails. He just plain got lucky in his first year as NYG HC, then reality bit him the following year and he imploded like a water balloon in a 500-ton sheet metal press.

The Giants offense was good when he was the OC.

I'm not trying to come off as defending McAdoo per se. I just think he was better than Shurmur, and if you're gonna shit on McAdoo, you might as well shit on Shurmur equally as much, if not more.

splitting hairs, isn't it??

Is anyone here signing up to have either guy coach again? If not, then isn't the premise here flimsy, at best? Two guys sucking doesn't really have to differentiate between the magnitude of it.

In comment 15273131 Bear vs Shark said:

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In comment 15273127 George from PA said: Quote: Kind of apples to oranges. I feel only fair McAdoo/Shurmur comparison is as HC. Neither were great HC I didn't intend to compare them on an apples to apples basis, I was just talking about their reputation amongst Giants fans. Shurmur was just bad at everything he did as a Giant. McAdoo was at least good at something at some point. Yet for some reason, Giants fans appear to viscerally hate McAdoo and give Shurmur a pass, when IMO, Shurmur was far more useless. Dude was a bad hire from the start and pretty much everyone knew it.

Shurmur did not run a bad offense.

of clothes!

just tie McAdoo's win percentage when he was fired over the same number of games. Not a McAdoo fan but I think the Giants organization uncharacteristically caved in to fan sentiment. Throw in that McAdoo had the Giants in a playoff game over that span.

Shurmur has had success at several different stops in his career. McAdoo's success is limited to two or three seasons Anyone can be in the right place at the right time once.

p.s.--My source at Fox Sports said McAdoo wasn't well-respected during his time in Green Bay. "Glorified gym teacher" was the expression that was used.

In comment 15273138 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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splitting hairs, isn't it?? Is anyone here signing up to have either guy coach again? If not, then isn't the premise here flimsy, at best? Two guys sucking doesn't really have to differentiate between the magnitude of it.

No argument there. I was just referring to fan sentiment, which is never truly governed by reason. I just find it interesting that people recoil in disgust at the thought of McAdoo and his time on the team when he actually had a successful season and successful offenses, but are totally ambivalent to Shurmur. Besides, even if it's splitting hairs and an (admittedly) irrelevant question, this is a Giants board so it's one of the most appropriate venues to pose this question

Others touched on it, but I guess the spectacular flame out and disappointment is probably what does it, now that I've seen the responses in this thread.

As for the poster who said that Shurmur's offenses weren't bad.... they were average, sure, but McAdoo had better offenses (at times, definitely not as a HC) and at least had a playoff season.

All I'm saying is there were some positives during McAdoos tenure as OC and HC. I can't really think of any during Shurmur's... yet McAdoo is farrrrr more reviled.

and McAdoo always came off as a jerkoff.

Shurmur seemed like a nice guy that was in over his head as a HC. Shurmur also had multiple years of being a solid OC, where McAdoo really didn’t do much of anything before getting his HC opportunity.

In comment 15273144 Milton said:

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Shurmur has had success at several different stops in his career. McAdoo's success is limited to two or three seasons Anyone can be in the right place at the right time once. p.s.--My source at Fox Sports said McAdoo wasn't well-respected during his time in Green Bay. "Glorified gym teacher" was the expression that was used.

I totally agree that Shurmur is a better offensive mind than McAdoo. I just think his time on the Giants when compared to McAdoo's was way worse.

was OC, it wasn't "his offense". It was still the Coughlin offense and still had many marks of Gilbride in it

His offense was the one that utilized the 11 personnel grouping at a historically high rate

There were many threads about the stark differences in downfield attempts, in route selection and in utilization of backs.

In comment 15273150 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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was OC, it wasn't "his offense". It was still the Coughlin offense and still had many marks of Gilbride in it His offense was the one that utilized the 11 personnel grouping at a historically high rate There were many threads about the stark differences in downfield attempts, in route selection and in utilization of backs.

From my recollection at the time, it was a Coughlin/McAdoo hybrid with a de-emphasis on the route tree options and downfield passing. Then again, I don't pretend I'm as knowledgeable as those who coached or watch tape and waht not on this board when it comes to schemes.

Either way, he was the OC, so I think it'd be silly to say he doesn't deserve any credit for the offensive performances in '14 and '15.

Regardless of all of that though, I'm not trying to mount a passionate defense of McAdoo. All I've been saying in this thread was that I find it surprising that people viscerally despise McAdoo yet nobody gives a shit about Shurmur, when the Giants were worse under Shurmur.

he doesn't deserve any credit for the offense. Just that the difference in the offense he had as HC was dramatically different than the one he led as the OC.

And discussing his time as an OC still doesn't compare to Shurmur, who led a couple teams offenses much better than McAdoo did ours. And as soon as he was fired, he was able to get another job as a OC.

So it appears that Shurmur is looked at more favorably by NFL people too. Probably much moreso than the difference between the two by NYG fans

In comment 15273167 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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he doesn't deserve any credit for the offense. Just that the difference in the offense he had as HC was dramatically different than the one he led as the OC. And discussing his time as an OC still doesn't compare to Shurmur, who led a couple teams offenses much better than McAdoo did ours. And as soon as he was fired, he was able to get another job as a OC. So it appears that Shurmur is looked at more favorably by NFL people too. Probably much moreso than the difference between the two by NYG fans

I mean any Giants fan that doesn't see that the offense when McAdoo when he was OC and HC weren't quiet night and day, but fundamentally very different, then they are just looking to argue a position. It's completely disingenuous.

OC's that gets of credit and respect are the guys that coach offenses under defensive coaches. Shurmur coached under Spags, Zimmer, and Fangio now. Guy is well respected as being an offensive guru.

McAdoo hasn't sniffed a job because of his competency in that area. He was exposed as a fraud after Coughlin left. He hitched onto McCarthy (another fraud because of Aaron) and Coughlin and had very good offenses because of Aaron Rogers and Coughlin. Who knows if he's even a good QB coach, he didn't help develop Rogers, he was just there when he was already elite.

The fact that Big Mac hasn't been hired By His Peers speaks volumes. No one in the professions seems to respect him

but McAdoo was more hated for the Eli benching, a move that I thought was pretty reasonable at that moment. I still feel ashamed for the way Geno Smith was treated by Giants fans. He was the backup QB and he deserved that start if Giants were going to explore options.

the eli benching, but Geno did NOT deserve to start, especially if they were "exploring other options". We knew exactly what Geno was.

The only logical starter in a scenario where eli was benched, was Davis Webb. Starting Geno was an exercise in futility.

In comment 15273167 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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he doesn't deserve any credit for the offense. Just that the difference in the offense he had as HC was dramatically different than the one he led as the OC. And discussing his time as an OC still doesn't compare to Shurmur, who led a couple teams offenses much better than McAdoo did ours. And as soon as he was fired, he was able to get another job as a OC. So it appears that Shurmur is looked at more favorably by NFL people too. Probably much moreso than the difference between the two by NYG fans

Oh I 100% saw the difference from McAdoo as OC to McAdoo as HC with regards to the offense (looking at you Zeke, c'mon bro). I'd just assume he had a hand in *something*.

Having said all that, I was never talking about their relative acumen as an offensive mind. I've said it a couple times in this thread, but people fucking hate McAdoo and don't give a shit about Shurmur.

I had way more fun in 2016 as a Giants fan than anything under Shurmur. Shurmur being a better coach is irrelevant to me at this point, since neither coach is gonna ever be involved with the Giants again. Just saying that in hindsight, give me the McAdoo years over the Shurmur ones. At least there was a glimmer of competency and hope for the franchise.

In comment 15273209 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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the eli benching, but Geno did NOT deserve to start, especially if they were "exploring other options". We knew exactly what Geno was. The only logical starter in a scenario where eli was benched, was Davis Webb. Starting Geno was an exercise in futility.

100% agree with this. Starting Geno was fucking pointless.

McAdoo rubbed people the wrong way and threw gallons of gas on that with the Geno situation

Shurmur was in over his head, but was so bland that there was really no negative reaction to him personally.

In comment 15273132 Daniel in Kentucky said:

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I agree completely Link - ( New Window )

Riddick nailed it perfectly

The whole McAdoo/Geno/Eli fiasco.

On a side note, why is Chris Canty not working NFL games. The guy is great with his commentary.

LINK - ( New Window )

because Pat’s suits actually fit him instead of being 2 sizes too large,

Someone add a pic.

... who just sucked as a head coach.

McAdoo isn't even proven to be a good QB coach.

Carter and Canty done fucked that boy up!

McAdoo was a phony. He wasn't true to himself and he put on an act. I don't believe he carried himself with integrity and didn't show/communicate respect to the players. He in my opinion did not carry himself with class.

Shurmur on the other hand is a class act and a good guy. He just doesn't have the personality to be a head coach. He is a smart football guy, but isn't cut out to be the CEO. I don't blame him, he did his best, the hiring is on the Giants for not seeing that.

So the rep, I believe is about the person that they are, not the stats.

In comment 15273107 wigs in nyc said:

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breaking Eli’s streak for Geno Smith has something to do with McAdoo sentiment

They were trying to win a game, something they weren’t doing much of with Eli.

It s team first. If he felt Geno was a better athlete, giving them a better chance to win, that was more important than Eli s streak.

In comment 15273497 joeinpa said:

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In comment 15273107 wigs in nyc said: Quote: breaking Eli’s streak for Geno Smith has something to do with McAdoo sentiment They were trying to win a game, something they weren’t doing much of with Eli. It s team first. If he felt Geno was a better athlete, giving them a better chance to win, that was more important than Eli s streak.

Geno Smith was trash, and he proved to be trash in that game. Terrible excuse-making for a shitty coach.

In comment 15273122 Ben in Tampa said:

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I’d take the bullet

😂😂😂😂😂. Mannnnn y’all got me rolling today! This was great lmao

If Shurmur was handed that defense and Spags he would have been able to break 20 points a game.

Here. The offemse was a god-awful disaster. Even in the 11 win season, it was a trainwreck.

Go look at the numbers.

McAdoo strangely gets credit for being HC for Spags' accomplishments with his 2016 defense.

Now, Shurmur was not successful, but his offemse showed some competence. In 28 games, the most points the Giants scored under McAdoo was 28 points.

Shurmur's team scored at least 30 points 5 times in 2018 alone, 40 once.

And some of this has to do with the players they both had (and didn't have). But McAdoo was brought here bc of his offensive acumen and it was an unmitigated failure, while Shurmur's wasn't, despite his other failings.

Without the defense he had in 2016 McAdoo went 2-10 in 2017. You do need good players no matter who you are, but it was clear that Shurmur brought more to the table than McAdoo.

Neither were good head coaches.