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| Last week, we reported that Jones was the most accurate deep passer in the league and this week we’re here to tell you he’s one of the best running quarterbacks in the league as well. Jones has an additional dimension to his game. He can run. He led all quarterbacks in yards per rush in 2020 with a 6.5-yards per attempt average. He didn’t qualify for the league lead by QBs since he rushed just 65 times. The minimum is 100 carries. Jones’s rushing ability gets overlooked. By contrast, he’s just as effective as the NFL’s top rushing QBs, Baltimore’s Lamar Jackson (6.3 yards per attempt) and Arizona’s Kyler Murray (6.2). From Nick Shook of NFL.com on Jackson: One year after Jackson dominated the 10-plus-yard runs category, the quarterback saw a significant decrease in big gains on the ground (47 to 32). Jackson still landed among the league leaders in such runs, though, and he again made defenses pay for letting him find open space. Jackson’s 85 15-plus mph runs were the third most in the NFL. Jackson tied Murray for most 20-plus mph runs among quarterbacks with four (Daniel Jones also posted four but didn’t have enough total carries to qualify). |
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we also bypassed Darnold which seems like a wise decision. You win some you lose some. Plenty of teams passed on Lamar Jackson, so the ones that needed a QB are also foolish I guess.
Yes they are. Doesn't make the Giants any less foolish.
Never said it did.
He can still be an asset and a great pick even if he doesn’t win two chips and play a million games in a row.
Link - ( New Window )
Daniel Jones IS a pocket QB. He just needs a pocket.
What Sean posted above you is a bonus part to his game, but can also be designed around. Judging by that vid above, they’re already designing around it.
Daniel Jones IS a pocket QB. He just needs a pocket.
There may be a filet mignon there but a lot of fat needs to be trimmed still. So I'm not sold - yet - that Jones does have what it takes to be an effective NFL pocket QB...
Daniel Jones has the pocket sense of the actor/actress playing the first victim in the opener of a horror film. - ( New Window )
The guy admits neither of his first two reads are open. By the time it's time to go to his third read, the pocket collapses into him, and he runs. I love how the reviewer then says "oh, he did get a first down on that play".
Daniel Jones has the prototypical size and build to be a pocket passer. He has the tools. His accuracy is good and his arm is good enough. The coaches can develop him.
I'm sure you can find other examples but that one was really poor, IMO.
That said its an area of his game that absolutely needs improvement so i'm not excusing it.
Tom Brady - in Super Bowl XLII
And yes, I read Sy's scouting report. That doesn't mean that the NFL won't slow down for him.
- The OL had 1 v 1 assignments and Donald won
- There was no TE chip from Smith
- There was no RB in the backfield to assist
- Jones needs to take what's being given and going up the middle, IMO. No idea if this clip shows his processing, its basically whatever you want to believe.
This year - they will be. I have a feeling we will be discussing how much better his pocket awareness is.
I think it'll start with OL being better b/c he won't have to deal with a guy in his face after .5 seconds too frequently. Good protection = QB with good pocket awareness.
I also think we'll be talking about how DJ has gotten better at not throwing the ball to the other team because he doesn't have to dot every throw because the CB is all over his 1st two reads. When his initial read is open - it makes your pocket awareness look great.
We'll also be talking about how he's not fumbling the football b/c he won't have to hold it for so long waiting for someone to come open. Being able to get rid of the ball quickly - makes your pocket awareness look rock solid.
I was a big DJ sucks guy and I'm still not a 100% sold - but after re-watching - I still have optimism he can turn into a good NFL QB.
And yes, I read Sy's scouting report. That doesn't mean that the NFL won't slow down for him.
Doesn't mean it will, either. No reason to expect it.
It's not like Jones was a great college player who's simply adjusting to NFL speed...he lost his last home game 59-7 to Wake Forest.
This is who he's been throughout.
It's not like Jones was a great college player who's simply adjusting to NFL speed...he lost his last home game 59-7 to Wake Forest.
This is who he's been throughout.
We are going to find out soon enough aren't we? And the reasons why its possible have been listed - you seem to ignore them every single time or think they don't matter.
Because many young NFL players get better...
Yes. I don't love Mac but as far as I'm concerned the unknown is better than what Daniel brings, and I'm adding rookie QB years doing it.
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If, as Sy observed, the game never slowed down for Jones at Duke...why would it slow down for him in the NFL?
Because many young NFL players get better...
And a great many more don't.
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If, as Sy observed, the game never slowed down for Jones at Duke...why would it slow down for him in the NFL?
It's not like Jones was a great college player who's simply adjusting to NFL speed...he lost his last home game 59-7 to Wake Forest.
This is who he's been throughout.
We are going to find out soon enough aren't we? And the reasons why its possible have been listed - you seem to ignore them every single time or think they don't matter.
Anything is possible. None of the reasons are compelling IMO.
The reasons started around here for why he'll get better all seem to revolve around hoping something happens that's never happened with him in college or the pros. They sound more like "We want him to be good because we're fans... anything is possible!"
Would we be making those same arguments for him objectively if he played for the Cowboys or Eagles? I think we'd all be saying he sucks.
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its settled then!
The reasons started around here for why he'll get better all seem to revolve around hoping something happens that's never happened with him in college or the pros. They sound more like "We want him to be good because we're fans... anything is possible!"
Would we be making those same arguments for him objectively if he played for the Cowboys or Eagles? I think we'd all be saying he sucks.
Wouldn't that apply to almost everything on this team, not just Jones?
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its settled then!
The reasons started around here for why he'll get better all seem to revolve around hoping something happens that's never happened with him in college or the pros. They sound more like "We want him to be good because we're fans... anything is possible!"
Would we be making those same arguments for him objectively if he played for the Cowboys or Eagles? I think we'd all be saying he sucks.
It's possible NYG team doctors develop superseureum and administer it to Jones making him Captain New York.
We don't have all the information so it's impossible to rule that out
What's your goal? You really don't seem to be open to a reasonable discussion anymore.
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In comment 15279782 Go Terps said:
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If, as Sy observed, the game never slowed down for Jones at Duke...why would it slow down for him in the NFL?
Because many young NFL players get better...
And a great many more don't.
Many don't. But clearly many do without getting into the odds of it which will be subjective anyway.
What's your goal? You really don't seem to be open to a reasonable discussion anymore.
I'm absolutely open to it. If you're trying to sell me on why Jones is going to work here with the Giants, I'm all ears. No one's been able to make a good argument for it, though.
It's totally fine with me to agree to disagree.
At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if Terps were right...which I'm ok with even if it makes me wrong.
I think it's Britt that said something like "you know it when you see it", and I think he's right. Jones could play great and the team could still go 7-10, or he could be poor and they could go 11-6.
To me also just as much about timeline and resource allocation...does Jones seem like he's going to be worth paying a 5th year option, let alone a new contract? That would require a quantum leap forward that I'm very confident he's incapable of. Even his fans on this board are already lowering expectations ("he doesn't need to be great", etc.).
He'll be better in '21 because it's impossible to get worse, but if we don't think he can be great we should move on. Paying him even the 5th year option world be an error unless he makes a jump to a level he hasn't shown since...ever.
There isn't.
At this point, everybody has solidified their opinion, and it basically falls into two camps. Jones can't do it, and Jones is still a work in progress. Both have points that solidify their stance.
The good news is we should have a much clearer picture of what's what in about 6 months.
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In comment 15279796 UConn4523 said:
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its settled then!
The reasons started around here for why he'll get better all seem to revolve around hoping something happens that's never happened with him in college or the pros. They sound more like "We want him to be good because we're fans... anything is possible!"
Would we be making those same arguments for him objectively if he played for the Cowboys or Eagles? I think we'd all be saying he sucks.
It's possible NYG team doctors develop superseureum and administer it to Jones making him Captain New York.
We don't have all the information so it's impossible to rule that out
So they told you about that too, huh? I thought it was just me...
What things? I'm honestly asking, because to this point the arguments in his favor all seem to revolve around blaming his supporting cast.
You can "see a lot of things that can change his level of play" is certainly an arguable stance, but Terps defense of "he is what he is" seems like a reasonable counterargument.
Can't hate him for that. Not sure why so many here seem to get on him for it.
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A great year statistically? Making the playoffs? Winning a Super Bowl?
I think it's Britt that said something like "you know it when you see it", and I think he's right. Jones could play great and the team could still go 7-10, or he could be poor and they could go 11-6.
To me also just as much about timeline and resource allocation...does Jones seem like he's going to be worth paying a 5th year option, let alone a new contract? That would require a quantum leap forward that I'm very confident he's incapable of. Even his fans on this board are already lowering expectations ("he doesn't need to be great", etc.).
He'll be better in '21 because it's impossible to get worse, but if we don't think he can be great we should move on. Paying him even the 5th year option world be an error unless he makes a jump to a level he hasn't shown since...ever.
To your second point about resource allocation, the Giants have set themselves up nicely with two first round picks, two 3rd round picks, and two fourth round picks already in next year's draft.
They have set themselves up nicely for a future where Jones isn't the guy. So this all just needs to play itself out and we need to give it time to do so.
That was the underlying smart play that many missed in the draft day trade.
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it doesn't change anything. You are beyond obsessed at this point with making sure everyone knows that their opinions aren't rooted in any sort of fact, apparently. And since it isn't, you're go to is "that isn't compelling". Cool, great discussion.
What's your goal? You really don't seem to be open to a reasonable discussion anymore.
I'm absolutely open to it. If you're trying to sell me on why Jones is going to work here with the Giants, I'm all ears. No one's been able to make a good argument for it, though.
There are clearly arguments to be made for and against him getting better, and agree that many here supply some that aren't all that good. I just go with the simple approach that we have seen some good with DJ and many young NFL players get better. That's enough for me based on where he is in his career and realizing the NYG are not sufficiently built to win anything meaningful yet anyway.
And lets call a spade a spade GT, you don't need to be sold because its pretty clear you aren't buying...
Like I said, you don't seem to want to have a discussion despite saying you are all ears. You can't say that isn't compelling and turn around and post the same "well he's never done it at Duke so why now?".
That particular play is one example of him being bad in the pocket. Another off the top of my head is the Mack strip sack in Chicago in 2019. Everyone killed Solder for that, but Jones was 9 yards behind the LOS when he got hit. There have to be a couple dozen other examples in his 26 starts.
You asked my goal... My goal would be for all of us to leave our fandom at the door and talk about all these guys as we would if they were on another team. I don't have any interest in hearing about what we hope is possible based on little or no evidence.
There's plenty of video and data out there on Jones - my goal would be to talk about that objectively.
At this point, everybody has solidified their opinion, and it basically falls into two camps. Jones can't do it, and Jones is still a work in progress. Both have points that solidify their stance.
That's how you view this? Interesting.
I see the camps more along these lines:
Those that have seen enough to be mostly convinced that Jones is the solution.
And those who still need to so much more to be convinced Jones is the solution.
He is 6'5, 220 lbs. That's a pretty prototypical build for a pocket passer.
He reads defenses attempts to go through his progressions. Unless it is a designed play, he is looking for the pass first, and not running until the play breaks down. These are the characteristics of a "pocket QB" to me.
His legs are the bonus, but he looks to pass first.
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At this point, everybody has solidified their opinion, and it basically falls into two camps. Jones can't do it, and Jones is still a work in progress. Both have points that solidify their stance.
That's how you view this? Interesting.
I see the camps more along these lines:
Those that have seen enough to be mostly convinced that Jones is the solution.
And those who still need to so much more to be convinced Jones is the solution.
Who has declared Jones as the guy already? That nothing else needs to be seen?
That particular play is one example of him being bad in the pocket. Another off the top of my head is the Mack strip sack in Chicago in 2019. Everyone killed Solder for that, but Jones was 9 yards behind the LOS when he got hit. There have to be a couple dozen other examples in his 26 starts.
You asked my goal... My goal would be for all of us to leave our fandom at the door and talk about all these guys as we would if they were on another team. I don't have any interest in hearing about what we hope is possible based on little or no evidence.
There's plenty of video and data out there on Jones - my goal would be to talk about that objectively.
I don't think you are though. You seem unwilling to consider secondary and tertiary factors because you want our QB to be good enough for them not to matter. Well we don't have an upper tier QB and here we are, left thinking of ways to HELP him (whether you think he should need it or not).
You still didn't acknowledge what I posted, by the way. And it was a completely objective response where I saw 4 players (atleast) not contributing enough on the play. If that was a Jalen Hurts clip I'd say the same damn thing.
So if even I have said repeatedly all offseason that he needs to step up and prove it THIS third year now that he's had people put around him, that he's the guy... Well... If I'm his biggest fanboy and even I'm saying he needs to prove it, then who are these people that have made up their minds that he's already anointed as "the guy"?
So if even I have said repeatedly all offseason that he needs to step up and prove it THIS third year now that he's had people put around him, that he's the guy... Well... If I'm his biggest fanboy and even I'm saying he needs to prove it, then who are these people that have made up their minds that he's already anointed as "the guy"?
I said "mostly" convinced for that camp. Because their is a cacophony of voices (Zeke, for example) who seam to think Jones actually finished pretty well last year and is now ready to take flight with the new additions.
You certainly seem more bullish on Jones based on his body of work thus far. In contrast, I think there is legit regression form '19 to '20. So I put more weight on that and feel much more skeptical heading into '21.
(At the same time, I don't feel great about the OL and how that could impact Jones's performance. But that's a different topic...)