Daniel Jones posted 4 runs of 20+ mph

3-2-1….

but the biggest asset to him and this team will be his arm, ability to read defense, go through his progressions quickly, and his ability to keep turnovers to a minimum.

In comment 15277380 bluewave said:

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but the biggest asset to him and this team will be his arm, ability to read defense, go through his progressions quickly, and his ability to keep turnovers to a minimum.

True and a given for any QB, but now that he has receivers who actually will be able to get separation, his progressions will not have to be as lengthy, imv

He is clearly an accurate deep passer, and he can make play with his legs.

He has the tools.

lends me to believe they are trying to let him use his arm first and foremost.

before taking off.

You would be doing Jones and this offense a disservice by not leveraging what he can do with his legs. The fact that he's a long strider and isn't really the most creative runner means that you'll have to do a lot more designed plays to fully take advantage of that. Of course there is more of a risk of injury but it is a little overblown IMO. QBs are protected and the blindside hit or leg injury in the pocket is more likely to land him on the IR than a bad hit he's expecting past the line of scrimmage as a runner.

There's also his ability as a deep ball passer - that's a complementary skill to his running ability. That's what the Ravens have been doing with Lamar. I'm not the biggest fan of Garrett but I think he did an excellent job getting him involved in that capacity and I'm hoping we see more of it.

that some of the better scramblers have, but you can definitely steal a lot of hidden yards on his skill set. His ability to extend plays might not be in Lamar or Kyler territory but we can make do.

But NFL QBs make their living with their arm and their brain. I think he’s got plenty of both but he has to show that consistently. He should have a good opportunity to do that and I’m looking forward to seeing him this year.

He has wheels, works hard and he has made nice throws. I hope he’s able to put it all together, stay healthy, come through in clutch situations and with his new weapons, lead the Giants out of the football hell we’ve suffered through for the last decade.

In comment 15277401 AcesUp said:

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You would be doing Jones and this offense a disservice by not leveraging what he can do with his legs. The fact that he's a long strider and isn't really the most creative runner means that you'll have to do a lot more designed plays to fully take advantage of that. Of course there is more of a risk of injury but it is a little overblown IMO. QBs are protected and the blindside hit or leg injury in the pocket is more likely to land him on the IR than a bad hit he's expecting past the line of scrimmage as a runner. There's also his ability as a deep ball passer - that's a complementary skill to his running ability. That's what the Ravens have been doing with Lamar. I'm not the biggest fan of Garrett but I think he did an excellent job getting him involved in that capacity and I'm hoping we see more of it.

I don't think that DJ rushing needs to be by design other than counting his rushing attempts as part of his progression.

If he has to get out of the pocket, have a quick plan to throw and don't be afraid to "miss" seeing Slayton open deep...if you don't see him, you don't see him...just run.

Yeah, fans and talking heads will call him out for not throwing but the coaches in the film room will see what he saw and likely praise him for making a positive play.

That dimension of his game

In comment 15277415 BillT said:

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But NFL QBs make their living with their arm and their brain. I think he’s got plenty of both but he has to show that consistently. He should have a good opportunity to do that and I’m looking forward to seeing him this year.

To be an elite perennial All Pro QB? Yes, this is true. But you can be a very good NFL QB that wins your teams football games using your legs. The best coaches learn to shape their scheme around what his players do best. Jones' strengths right now are his legs and his deep ball - you can play those two skills off each other. If teams are worried about what he can do himself with the ball in his hands, that creates space for Saquan and the WRs. If teams start cheating on Jones and Barkley, then you can lean into his strength and make teams pay deep with Golladay and Slayton. Whether he develops into this cerebral QB that knows exactly where to go with the football at all times is up in the air but you can raise his floor and put points on the board with our skill guys and what he currently does well no question.

.

at 65 for the season. And that YPC is a bit skewed by the 80 yarder against Philly. You still count it, but it's not like Jones made anyone miss. It was a complete breakdown of the Philly D.

But here are attempts by other running QBs:

- LJax 159
- Cam 137
- KMurray - 133
- Allen - 102
- Watson - 90

Those are QBs who put real pressure on the defense with their ability to manufacture runs. Now I'm all for Jones running the ball more. But he's not really shifty or quick. And he's a big target. So there is a high element of risk.

In comment 15277435 AcesUp said:

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In comment 15277415 BillT said: Quote: But NFL QBs make their living with their arm and their brain. I think he’s got plenty of both but he has to show that consistently. He should have a good opportunity to do that and I’m looking forward to seeing him this year. To be an elite perennial All Pro QB? Yes, this is true. But you can be a very good NFL QB that wins your teams football games using your legs. The best coaches learn to shape their scheme around what his players do best. Jones' strengths right now are his legs and his deep ball - you can play those two skills off each other. If teams are worried about what he can do himself with the ball in his hands, that creates space for Saquan and the WRs. If teams start cheating on Jones and Barkley, then you can lean into his strength and make teams pay deep with Golladay and Slayton. Whether he develops into this cerebral QB that knows exactly where to go with the football at all times is up in the air but you can raise his floor and put points on the board with our skill guys and what he currently does well no question.

What I want to see is a rushing attack that rotates between Barkley in the backfield, Toney in motion out of the slot, and Jones as a threat to keep it. That can set up tons of options in the passing game, especially when the defense doesn't know who to key on out of the backfield.

He’s got to improve his pocket presence though. He will have to play faster in 2021. I don’t dispute that he has some traits which can be worked with though - good deep ball accuracy, straight line speed, tough, hard worker. Needs to all come together though.

I disagree to some extent. Piggybacking off what djm said, he's not Murray or Jackson in that regard. I think even guys like Fitzpatrick and Mayfield are more instinctual runners than him. Couple that with the fact that he's faster than he is quick and you need to get him in space to really see the returns on that. His explosive plays as a runner last year came more on designed runs and I actually felt like he left a lot of plays on the table by not choosing to run in some cases. That part is kind of a good thing though, you want him thinking pass first when that is the call.

More of those please.

He's a pure pocket passer that also has great size, speed and toughness to run when he feels like it.

But he wants to beat you from the pocket and that's what it takes for sustained success in the NFL.

that even fooled the camera this year. The run in the Cowboys game comes to mind.

In comment 15277464 mittenedman said:

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He's a pure pocket passer that also has great size, speed and toughness to run when he feels like it. But he wants to beat you from the pocket and that's what it takes for sustained success in the NFL.

He has a prototypical build and skill set. He just needs to put it all together.

any of the shifty guys. I'd compare him more to Steve McNair. If Jones can master the art of knowing when to run and when to throw, he can be a big time QB.

And it sure looked like it was all coming together before the hammy.

In comment 15277441 Britt in VA said:

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What I want to see is a rushing attack that rotates between Barkley in the backfield, Toney in motion out of the slot, and Jones as a threat to keep it. That can set up tons of options in the passing game, especially when the defense doesn't know who to key on out of the backfield.

No question, with this personnel that's what the best version of this offense will look like. Make defenders hesitate.

In comment 15277440 bw in dc said:

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at 65 for the season. And that YPC is a bit skewed by the 80 yarder against Philly. You still count it, but it's not like Jones made anyone miss. It was a complete breakdown of the Philly D. But here are attempts by other running QBs: - LJax 159 - Cam 137 - KMurray - 133 - Allen - 102 - Watson - 90 Those are QBs who put real pressure on the defense with their ability to manufacture runs. Now I'm all for Jones running the ball more. But he's not really shifty or quick. And he's a big target. So there is a high element of risk.

Yeah, but.... yeah but

Love the kvetching...

He's not a scrambler for sure. He's a runner. He gets of lot of yards from just the length of his stride.


In comment 15277410 djm said:

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that some of the better scramblers have, but you can definitely steal a lot of hidden yards on his skill set. His ability to extend plays might not be in Lamar or Kyler territory but we can make do.

believes Jones doesn't have the tool set to succeed. He is very fast, he has a strong enough arm, and he is a hard worker that his teammates seem to like and follow.

Where I think most have doubts (including me) is in his ability to "put it all together." That is said like he has shown us 99% of it, and now he just needs to dot the "i."

I am hoping the game slows down for him this year which leads him to putting it all together. But it is the mental part of the position which I think has been his greatest hurdle.

In comment 15277532 Mike from Ohio said:

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believes Jones doesn't have the tool set to succeed. He is very fast, he has a strong enough arm, and he is a hard worker that his teammates seem to like and follow. Where I think most have doubts (including me) is in his ability to "put it all together." That is said like he has shown us 99% of it, and now he just needs to dot the "i." I am hoping the game slows down for him this year which leads him to putting it all together. But it is the mental part of the position which I think has been his greatest hurdle.

Sorry Mike. bw yes, but there’s nothing in Terps’ overall body of comments that indicates he believes DG has the tool set. At best, he said he hopes he’s proven wrong..

Between the ears and instincts, we haven't seen that yet.

This was against Philly in 2019. Jones extends the play in a collapsing pocket, goes to his left and throws a beautiful ball to Tate for a TD.

Not an easy play, video linked below. We need to see more of this.
Link - ( New Window )

Terps doesn't need me speak for him, but he identified Jones pretty early as the QB target for NYG and was very much looking forward to him playing right away for Eli.

So he was somewhat bullish early on.

I doubt the Giants get cute in the backfield. I think Barkley is the primary back and gets 300 carries, and fewer targets in the pass game, maybe 50.

I don’t expect a dink and dunk offense at all. You have to showcase Golladay and Slayton.

The more the Giants utilize routes 10-15 down the field, the more Jones has the room to take off if there’s nothing there. And that’s where he’s a weapon. He gets a lane and he has RB straight line speed.

Cool. Let's see the Giants get to .500 for a change and let's see them stay winners.

But if they can incorporate some designed runs for Jones into the offense...or he has the presence of mind to take off when the opportunity presents itself, then I say go for it.

In comment 15277569 bw in dc said:

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Terps doesn't need me speak for him, but he identified Jones pretty early as the QB target for NYG and was very much looking forward to him playing right away for Eli. So he was somewhat bullish early on.

Perhaps, just referring to his comments after just a season and a half, definitively stating that DJ is not our franchise QB moving forward. Could be right (which I’ve always opined), but way to early for such judgements, imv

In comment 15277577 christian said:

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I doubt the Giants get cute in the backfield. I think Barkley is the primary back and gets 300 carries, and fewer targets in the pass game, maybe 50. I don’t expect a dink and dunk offense at all. You have to showcase Golladay and Slayton. The more the Giants utilize routes 10-15 down the field, the more Jones has the room to take off if there’s nothing there. And that’s where he’s a weapon. He gets a lane and he has RB straight line speed.

That's probably the starting philosophy - make SB the bell cow. And branch out from the there.

But I expect the same approach from what we saw early on from DCs last year. Basically sell out on stopping SB, and force Jones to make plays.

In comment 15277454 AcesUp said:

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I disagree to some extent. Piggybacking off what djm said, he's not Murray or Jackson in that regard. I think even guys like Fitzpatrick and Mayfield are more instinctual runners than him. Couple that with the fact that he's faster than he is quick and you need to get him in space to really see the returns on that. His explosive plays as a runner last year came more on designed runs and I actually felt like he left a lot of plays on the table by not choosing to run in some cases. That part is kind of a good thing though, you want him thinking pass first when that is the call.

Totally agree and if we call a bunch of designed runs for him, he's going to get hurt. Going to the well with him a ton doesn't make any sense because he can't making something out of nothing. It should be to keep defenses honest and have to account for him. Garrett is actually very good about calling QB runs and catching defenses with their pants down. This is why his big runs came on designed runs. You can't just point to that and be like say do that 10 times a game. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how football works and I see it parroted here quite a bit.

He should also be running when the defense is in man, nothing is open after the initial reads, and they haven't dedicated spy. He can absolutely slice teams with explosive runs in that situation.

If he rushes more than 5-6 times a game, no way he finishes the season.

these highlights from when he was at Duke. Ran for two longs TDs in one game against UNC. One on a QB draw right up the gut, the other on a fake jet sweep and right up the gut again. Start at 1:03 mark.
Jones - ( New Window )

But do it smartly and run out of bounds or slide and not take blows to gain an extra 1-2 yards that don't matter in overall scheme of things.

Designed runs should be in the playbook but same sentiment on taking less hits has to apply.

Otherwise, they need to ensure Glennon gets a lot of first team snaps at practice throughout the year as he will be needed...

I'd prescribe the runs, cut the field in half as much as possible on pass plays, get him out of the pocket on planned rollouts... everything that can be done to get away from him making reads. To me that's his ticket for success in 2021. If he's in the pocket scanning the field, then deciding whether or not to take off and run... that's asking for problems IMO.

That's why I think Garrett isn't going to work for him.

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Big Blue '56 : 2:55 pm In 3-2-1…. bluewave : 2:57 pm That's nice...but the biggest asset to him and this team will be his arm, ability to read defense, go through his progressions quickly, and his ability to keep turnovers to a minimum.

It's enjoyable to see someone call it so well

is a very smart player.

So the answer to that is to dumb things down for him to keep pushing a particular narrative?

I'd think Garrett would be just fine in dumbing things down since so many people already think he's too bland.

It's a bitch when dueling narratives collide....

In comment 15277632 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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is a very smart player.

Based on what? That he went to Duke?

Fitzpatrick went to Harvard and killed the Wonderlic. Yet, he makes some of the dumbest decisions I have ever seen on a football field.

Of all his supposed attributes, football acumen thus far isn't at the top of the list...

on the fact that numerous coached have commented on his ability to quickly learn teh playbook and to help out other players. There's a reason he was ready to play a couple of games into his career.

Or does that not jibe with the idea he's got middling physical tools??

In comment 15277624 Go Terps said:

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I'd prescribe the runs, cut the field in half as much as possible on pass plays, get him out of the pocket on planned rollouts... everything that can be done to get away from him making reads. To me that's his ticket for success in 2021. If he's in the pocket scanning the field, then deciding whether or not to take off and run... that's asking for problems IMO. That's why I think Garrett isn't going to work for him.

Excellent point and I agree

He's not going to get hurt. That's nonsense. I do think the risk is a little overblown, especially when it's a designed play and you can mitigate that risk to some extent. Or he's part of the design but doesn't end up being the ball carrier. Not all rushes are created equal either, how you run him plays a big part. Which is why, even beyond how Jones plays the game, it makes sense to leverage that skillset with designed plays vs having him go offscript. QBs are protected, so if he's running towards the sideline or has the ability to give himself up on the play, the margins start to favor you more. When you look at where Jones is in his development, the expectations of the team and how adventageous it is (even the cheap, angle shooty 15 yard penalties that come with it)...it should absolutely be something that the coaches find ways to use instead of excuses not to.

I'm in agreement as well, the biggest benefit is what it brings to the other players on offense and you don't force it, you take what the defense gives you. But for me, that means not putting him on a pitch count in either direction. You don't say we've got run him X amount of time or we can't run him more than Y. You make it a tangible part of your offense and put it on the front burner when you're looking for opportunities.

In comment 15277637 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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on the fact that numerous coached have commented on his ability to quickly learn teh playbook and to help out other players. There's a reason he was ready to play a couple of games into his career.

As you know, knowing the playbook and making intelligent football decisions in a game aren't mutually exclusive.

And in today's game more than ever, college QBs are ready to go much more quickly because the college game is closer to the pro game.

this is today's version of the shit on Daniel Jones thread (even though it was started with a positive).

I can't wait to see what form tomorrow's takes. All I know is that there will be two specific people posting on it to reiterate how poor jones is.