|
|
|
| Quote: |
| Last week, we reported that Jones was the most accurate deep passer in the league and this week we’re here to tell you he’s one of the best running quarterbacks in the league as well. Jones has an additional dimension to his game. He can run. He led all quarterbacks in yards per rush in 2020 with a 6.5-yards per attempt average. He didn’t qualify for the league lead by QBs since he rushed just 65 times. The minimum is 100 carries. Jones’s rushing ability gets overlooked. By contrast, he’s just as effective as the NFL’s top rushing QBs, Baltimore’s Lamar Jackson (6.3 yards per attempt) and Arizona’s Kyler Murray (6.2). From Nick Shook of NFL.com on Jackson: One year after Jackson dominated the 10-plus-yard runs category, the quarterback saw a significant decrease in big gains on the ground (47 to 32). Jackson still landed among the league leaders in such runs, though, and he again made defenses pay for letting him find open space. Jackson’s 85 15-plus mph runs were the third most in the NFL. Jackson tied Murray for most 20-plus mph runs among quarterbacks with four (Daniel Jones also posted four but didn’t have enough total carries to qualify). |
You don't go to the top of the free agent market and spend a first round pick on WRs to not throw the ball.
When teams truly really respect that the Giants can protect the QB and have to respect their WRs downfield, those big chunk plays will be open for Jones on the ground too.
Quote:
I could see them being freaked out by the injury and wanting to expose Jones less. I also think there are people in that building that view him as Eli 2.0 and want him used that way. It may have been telling that they brought in Glennon (totally immobile pocket QB) to be the backup.
I expect them to try to operate with Jones primarily in the pocket.
Undoubtedly, One Giants Way were pursuing Eli 2.0 when they drafted Eli. But I think that was based more on Jones's persona and training, not his physical attributes.
Because Jones is much, much more athletic than Eli, but Eli is John Nash in the pocket with his decision making compared to Jones. And Eli had better arm talent.
Now, I'm all far Jones getting better in the pocket, but to reduce him to mostly a pocket QB would be, as our fat friend in Charlotte says, obtuse...
They’re not going to relegate DJ to the pocket only, imo. They will have a diverse offense. He doesn’t have to run a ton like LJ, just enough to keep things honest, pick up key first downs and move the chains in multiple ways, imv..
To think otherwise is folly, I believe
- Healthy QB, in his 3rd year
- Best RB in the league, who by all reports is healthy and ready
- WR group talent-wise right there
- TE group talent-wise right there
- Hand picked offensive line by Judge
Given the investment, the surprise should really be if the Giants don’t produce.
I'm seeing Jones having a Jared Goff 2018 season
There is hardly ever a pocket...
I think people get defensive when hearing that criticism because it can sound like Jones is being called an idiot. But it's not that simple. He's surely a bright guy, but maybe he's just .5 seconds slower processing information than ideal, or just a half yard off in his spatial awareness.
Quote:
Between the ears and instincts, we haven't seen that yet.
I think people get defensive when hearing that criticism because it can sound like Jones is being called an idiot. But it's not that simple. He's surely a bright guy, but maybe he's just .5 seconds slower processing information than ideal, or just a half yard off in his spatial awareness.
Or maybe I would get more separation than last year’s receivers did..:)
Quote:
I could see them being freaked out by the injury and wanting to expose Jones less. I also think there are people in that building that view him as Eli 2.0 and want him used that way. It may have been telling that they brought in Glennon (totally immobile pocket QB) to be the backup.
I expect them to try to operate with Jones primarily in the pocket.
If that’s the case then you either think Judge is full of shit when he talked about finding out what a player does well as opposed to what he can’t do. Or Judge doesn’t have the say in the organization we think he does.
He strikes me as someone who would identify Jones in the pocket as not a strength. They’re trying to win after all.
I think it's the latter, obviously.
There are lots of people in that building with different timelines, job securities, and potentially different agendas. I'm expecting things to become clearer after 2021 as things become further consolidated under Judge. I don't think we're there yet though.
Quote:
On paper the Giants should have the best offense in the division:
- Healthy QB, in his 3rd year
- Best RB in the league, who by all reports is healthy and ready
- WR group talent-wise right there
- TE group talent-wise right there
- Hand picked offensive line by Judge
Given the investment, the surprise should really be if the Giants don’t produce.
I'm seeing Jones having a Jared Goff 2018 season
The Cowboys on paper are a better offense. They certainly have potential to go south if injuries on OL mount (which they have recently). The Cowboys top 3 are better than our top 3 WRs. Our TE group is better. Zeke is a tier down from Saquon, but Tony Pollard is better than Booker.
But their offensive line (when healthy) being much better tips the scales in their favor unless you think DJ is much better than Dak entering his 3rd year.
Him and Golladay should thrive together.
- He's not the same on the run avoiding pressure in the pocket like a LJax or a K. Murray. He doesn't have that quickness or awareness that those guys have. They are different animals.
- DJ will continue to get hurt. In two seasons he has suffered two leg injuries that he tried to come back from and wasn't the same player. That's a big problem. How do you continue to use DJ and his elite straight line speed and expect to compete knowing in doing so he will get injured and not come back the same player. This is the kind of stuff that kills the careers of OCs.
- DJ being Jared Goff keeps me up at night. Good for the Rams for moving on from him. He was going to continue to keep one of the best rosters in the NFL from being perennial contenders. I don't like Stafford either, but Goff wasn't going to get them there - and they knew it.
I REALLY hope that the Giants aren't facing the same problem at the end of this year. And they very well could be.
Having said all that - I do think the DJ can be better than Goff and the tape I've seen on him throwing the ball was better the second time around. I do think he can develop into one of the better pocket passers in the league this year. It's put up or shut time for DJ b/c the Giants have the ammo to go get whoever they want in the draft next year if he's not the answer.
I think one of the ways you utilize his speed is by keeping him on the minds of backside defenders by running him just enough on ZR's to keep them from flattening and attacking SB or bootlegging off of same and throwing.
I think that you keep him safe by not overdoing it.
IMO, he could be a far better QB than Jackson, he has this season to show it.
And not surprisingly, it is used derisively.
They didn't just want to draft a QB, they wanted the same guy as Eli - except he's not the same in so many ways. That hasn't stopped the creation of a fable though.
So if the Giant's drafted DJ thinking he's Eli 2.0...what's wrong with that?
He's only a two time Super Bowl champ, sure fire HOFer, and complete class act as a face of the franchise.
DJ and Eli aren't the same player - they have some similar characteristics in some aspects of their games and personalities, so I get the comparisons...the only thing that worries me about them is that it's really hard to come after a franchise legend.
So if the Giant's drafted DJ thinking he's Eli 2.0...what's wrong with that?
The implication is that we over drafted a player just to fit the mold of something we wanted. I don't think that's completely untrue since moving on from Eli was so hard for Mara.
But they are completely different players so there's no real merit in the actual tool set for that comparison to be accurate.
Who can forget the run in London?
And not surprisingly, it is used derisively.
They didn't just want to draft a QB, they wanted the same guy as Eli - except he's not the same in so many ways. That hasn't stopped the creation of a fable though.
They both look like virgins and are white. Same person.
Quote:
So if the Giant's drafted DJ thinking he's Eli 2.0...what's wrong with that?
The implication is that we over drafted a player just to fit the mold of something we wanted. I don't think that's completely untrue since moving on from Eli was so hard for Mara.
But they are completely different players so there's no real merit in the actual tool set for that comparison to be accurate.
I think that there is some truth to the fact that the Giants who had tremendous success with Eli, were attracted to a prospect with a similar (not identical) pedigree and personality
Of course Jints Central wanted Eli 2.0.
That is largely centered on Eli's personality and professionalism. Jones is quiet, dependable off the field, keeps it simple with the press and doesn't seek the limelight. All very similar traits to Eli.
And the final piece to completing the Eli 2.0 equation was/is the connection to Cutcliffe, a trustworthy QB mentor to the Mannings.
I mean, if you can't see all of these connections, you can't see...
Slide, DiMaggio, slide!
Wait a minute...I'm not DiMaggio...
Are we somehow dumb for seeking that out?
Are we somehow dumb for seeking that out?
Yes, because this kid isn't in Eli's universe.
Quote:
In comment 15279141 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
So if the Giant's drafted DJ thinking he's Eli 2.0...what's wrong with that?
The implication is that we over drafted a player just to fit the mold of something we wanted. I don't think that's completely untrue since moving on from Eli was so hard for Mara.
But they are completely different players so there's no real merit in the actual tool set for that comparison to be accurate.
I think that there is some truth to the fact that the Giants who had tremendous success with Eli, were attracted to a prospect with a similar (not identical) pedigree and personality
Yeah, I don't know why its not plausible to think they saw a lot of similar persona and playing traits in Jones but with the added plus of better speed/mobility.
And while they may have been on target with the persona and mobility takes, they may have overrated his QB playing abilities.
We'll see...
Are we somehow dumb for seeking that out?
I'm not talking about whether he is or isn't, but the idea of the Giants seeking out Eli 2.0 is usually stated like it's a bad thing.
And while they may have been on target with the persona and mobility takes, they may have overrated his QB playing abilities.
We'll see...
And that's ultimately the key here - did they overrate Jones's skills and ability to win football games?
So far it seems they likely did.
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQh-drPAh4I
Slide, DiMaggio, slide!
Wait a minute...I'm not DiMaggio...
I actually love that video of clips.
While no one will mistake his running for Fran Tarkenton or Roger the Dodger Staubach, Eli just shows what a good football player he really was with his recognition, effort and desire to win with those runs. And how appropriate that his "escapability" efforts, of all QBs that have played the game, led to probably the greatest play in Super Bowl history...
Quote:
be what EVERY team wants in a QB?
Are we somehow dumb for seeking that out?
I'm not talking about whether he is or isn't, but the idea of the Giants seeking out Eli 2.0 is usually stated like it's a bad thing.
It is a bad thing. Eli was a special and unique player. Looking for another version of him isn't just foolhardy, it could skew objectivity in your search. If you're looking for Eli you might pass on Lamar Jackson, for example.
It's also not fair to Jones. He isn't Eli and shouldn't be used like he is.
Yes they are. Doesn't make the Giants any less foolish.
Quote:
And while they may have been on target with the persona and mobility takes, they may have overrated his QB playing abilities.
We'll see...
And that's ultimately the key here - did they overrate Jones's skills and ability to win football games?
So far it seems they likely did.
This seems like a very fair statement...thus far.
The context is a team that has had one winning record in a decade and picking at the very top of the draft for several years now. They basically had their pick of the litter...
Quote:
we also bypassed Darnold which seems like a wise decision. You win some you lose some. Plenty of teams passed on Lamar Jackson, so the ones that needed a QB are also foolish I guess.
Yes they are. Doesn't make the Giants any less foolish.
Never said it did.
He can still be an asset and a great pick even if he doesn’t win two chips and play a million games in a row.
Link - ( New Window )
Daniel Jones IS a pocket QB. He just needs a pocket.
What Sean posted above you is a bonus part to his game, but can also be designed around. Judging by that vid above, they’re already designing around it.
Daniel Jones IS a pocket QB. He just needs a pocket.
There may be a filet mignon there but a lot of fat needs to be trimmed still. So I'm not sold - yet - that Jones does have what it takes to be an effective NFL pocket QB...
Daniel Jones has the pocket sense of the actor/actress playing the first victim in the opener of a horror film. - ( New Window )
The guy admits neither of his first two reads are open. By the time it's time to go to his third read, the pocket collapses into him, and he runs. I love how the reviewer then says "oh, he did get a first down on that play".
Daniel Jones has the prototypical size and build to be a pocket passer. He has the tools. His accuracy is good and his arm is good enough. The coaches can develop him.
I'm sure you can find other examples but that one was really poor, IMO.
That said its an area of his game that absolutely needs improvement so i'm not excusing it.
Tom Brady - in Super Bowl XLII
And yes, I read Sy's scouting report. That doesn't mean that the NFL won't slow down for him.
- The OL had 1 v 1 assignments and Donald won
- There was no TE chip from Smith
- There was no RB in the backfield to assist
- Jones needs to take what's being given and going up the middle, IMO. No idea if this clip shows his processing, its basically whatever you want to believe.
This year - they will be. I have a feeling we will be discussing how much better his pocket awareness is.
I think it'll start with OL being better b/c he won't have to deal with a guy in his face after .5 seconds too frequently. Good protection = QB with good pocket awareness.
I also think we'll be talking about how DJ has gotten better at not throwing the ball to the other team because he doesn't have to dot every throw because the CB is all over his 1st two reads. When his initial read is open - it makes your pocket awareness look great.
We'll also be talking about how he's not fumbling the football b/c he won't have to hold it for so long waiting for someone to come open. Being able to get rid of the ball quickly - makes your pocket awareness look rock solid.
I was a big DJ sucks guy and I'm still not a 100% sold - but after re-watching - I still have optimism he can turn into a good NFL QB.