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NFT: Knicks offseason chat

nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 7:35 am
Was hoping this would not happen so quickly but it has and now we see hoe thr Knicks take that next step. Plenty of ways for this team to go and i am sure we will analyze and throw out ideas and over analyze every single option.

First off i am not taking 5 games in the playoffs over what we saw for 72 games. Does it suck? absolutrly but that dorsnt change my opinion on Randle or Rj or Thibs.

Randle is a building block, is he a number 1? no but we never thought he was, he is a 2 or in a perfect world a 3, same with Rj, Rj had his ups and downs and i was definitely one to always call out his downs but he improved a lot this season and gave you more hope for him than after his rookie deal..

As for the Vets on this team, Rose should be back as the back up point. He is clearly not a stsrter and we saw he got burnt out. Id like to see Burks back on the right deal, Bullock if he is coming back as a back up on a 1 or 2 year deal..

Taj i would love back as the 3rd center, Noel it depends on Mitch, i dont think you bring back both..

For the offseason there are a number of scenarios we habe already talkrd about

Lowry and Derozan, while trading fkr a star was mentioned by Jon in NYC..The lerfect way to do this is Lowry and derozan taking 2 year deals to play with Randle and thr star whoever it is..

Kawhi and trade for a star, this is a scenario that comes into play if Clippers lose game 6, Kawhi comes Knicks most likely will have a deal lined up for his running mate moving Randle the 3rd option..

We have seen Bradley Beal already stokr the flames, hopefully some guys decide it is time to move on...
I don't  
TommyWiseau : 6/3/2021 7:50 am : link
see Kawhi leaving, he had his chance to come to the Knicks and seemed as if we were not even a consideration for him. Does the season we have change that? I doubt it. With that said, we may need to see if a "Star" is disgruntled and hop on the opportunity. I would love to keep RJ and watch him develop but he is not someone who I would refuse to trade of a star became available.

I would love to bring Rose back as the backup point along with someone like Lonzo or Lowry. I actually would prefer Lonzo as he is much much younger and he is an improving player but I would be happy with Lowry.

Aside from bringing back Rose, I could see them trying to resign two of Burks, Bullock and Noel.
Kawhi  
GMEN46 : 6/3/2021 7:50 am : link
It’s the ultimate dream scenario and you can sign Lowry.. If you get him then is no need for Barrett and he can be dangled with picks for Beal or lavine, I know most disagree but I prefer lavine. Also I don’t think Knicks could fit Beal with kawhi and Lowry unless Lowry is taking a serious pay cut. Rj, Obi, knox, pelle and the European pg gets you to like 23 million. I think Beal is $34 million so Burks or bullock would have to sign and trade to wizards in that type of deal which is complicated. Or could knicks make the 2 first round picks for Washington then use those salaries as part of the deal 30 days later? This makes things very complicated.

Either way nice job by Knicks signing pelle and the European pg to non gurantees deals those can be very useful in trade scenarios.

Given this is a long shot I also interested in potentially trading for Sexton at the right price. Trae young matured quickly if Sexton can grow up he has all the talent you could want in a PG.

If Kawhi  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 7:57 am : link
gets bounced in the first round you have to think the rumors will have to start.

Same with Portland and CJ/Lillard. Obviously Lillard would be amazing but CJ is probably far more likely to be dealt.
RE: I don't  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 7:58 am : link
In comment 15279060 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
see Kawhi leaving, he had his chance to come to the Knicks and seemed as if we were not even a consideration for him. Does the season we have change that? I doubt it. With that said, we may need to see if a "Star" is disgruntled and hop on the opportunity. I would love to keep RJ and watch him develop but he is not someone who I would refuse to trade of a star became available.

I would love to bring Rose back as the backup point along with someone like Lonzo or Lowry. I actually would prefer Lonzo as he is much much younger and he is an improving player but I would be happy with Lowry.

Aside from bringing back Rose, I could see them trying to resign two of Burks, Bullock and Noel.


No one was coming here that off season, do i think it is likely? absolutely not..

If they lose i give it a 15% chance lol.

I will say Kawhi's uncle is a knicks fan, lives in new york and has Kawhi's ear, i dont know if he has a relationship with Wes
amazing year....  
Italianju : 6/3/2021 8:22 am : link
do i wish they showed up a bit more in this series, of course, but im not upset at all.

Kawhi is the dream and the only guy id go all in for. I think there is a tiny chance he leaves if they lose. I mean i dont see how the clippers get significantly better. That said it seems he wanted to be in LA so he might just stick it out.

I like lowry and think he is realistic on a shorter reasonable deal. Knowing the NBA a guy like Derozen is still getting a pretty big deal, like at least 4/80 and im not giving him that.

Knicks should be in on any trade candidates, but i do feel like this offseason is more a stop gap. Sign a guy like lowry, hope RJ, Obi and IQ take solid steps and then see what happens with the draft where we have basically 3 firsts to use or trade.
Why would Kawhi come here?  
Kanavis : 6/3/2021 8:24 am : link
Yes NY is more attractive than it used to be. But he has always had load management. I don't see him playing for Thibs who would run him into the ground.
It seems the Knicks will go big game hunting this offseason  
Heisenberg : 6/3/2021 8:34 am : link
after the game, DRose mentioned he wants to be back but the Knicks may "have big plans" that would prevent that. I think Leon Rose is definitely going to kick the tires on every disgruntled star possible. We'll see if he can land one. Kwahi is the better player but my dream would be Lillard, mainly because I really love to watch him play.
RE: It seems the Knicks will go big game hunting this offseason  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 8:38 am : link
In comment 15279086 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
after the game, DRose mentioned he wants to be back but the Knicks may "have big plans" that would prevent that. I think Leon Rose is definitely going to kick the tires on every disgruntled star possible. We'll see if he can land one. Kwahi is the better player but my dream would be Lillard, mainly because I really love to watch him play.


I think they try and trade for a fuy before the draft and then go into tbe offseaaon with a star already on the roster
the Knicks are always going to shoot for the stars....  
Italianju : 6/3/2021 8:39 am : link
and have a plan to try to get a star. Doesnt usually work out. I guess we dont know what star could become available, but as of now i just dont really see us getting a star this offseason. We should just hope that guys like Lavine, beal, etc.. stay where they are so that they might at least test FA after next season.
RE: RE: It seems the Knicks will go big game hunting this offseason  
Stu11 : 6/3/2021 9:07 am : link
In comment 15279092 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15279086 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


after the game, DRose mentioned he wants to be back but the Knicks may "have big plans" that would prevent that. I think Leon Rose is definitely going to kick the tires on every disgruntled star possible. We'll see if he can land one. Kwahi is the better player but my dream would be Lillard, mainly because I really love to watch him play.



I think they try and trade for a fuy before the draft and then go into tbe offseaaon with a star already on the roster

Yep I'm not saying AD wanted to come here, and maybe he was always going to the Lakers, but if we traded for him before that draft I think that off season plays out a lot differently but I think we were too focused on landing 2 big FA's and didnt want to tie up the space . The Knicks should not shy away at all from the trade market before the draft and free agency this year. If we make some power moves I think the possibility of tying up Randle to a 4/100 mill.extension greatens.
CJ McCollum  
five5 : 6/3/2021 9:26 am : link
I believe someone mentioned him earlier but there is a very good chance he gets moved this offseason. He is definitely someone to keep an eye on. Lillard and Leonard are pipe dreams.
extremely disappointing back to reality  
Justlurking : 6/3/2021 9:38 am : link
This series may not "outweigh" what happened over the course of the season, however, you cannot put too much stock in a bizarro world COVID season that started in front of zero fans. Our guys got exposed and you cannot overpay the role players here. I can't speak to who will become available and I think Dame/Kawhi are not happening and will not even allow my brain to have such thoughts. Instead you have to focus on who is here and whether to retain them. My 2 cents:

Gone: Elfrid, Noel (will want to get paid), Frank (19 million FA hold LOL)

Cannot over pay: Burks, Bullock, Taj - i think they bring back bullock and let burks walk. Taj most likely back at low #

Should be back at midlevel: Rose

Extend option: Mitch (1.8 million, no brainer)

Lonzo is most likely FA match. This team needs a PG very badly and with his size he's a good fit for potential IQ backcourt pairing. Rest of the cap space should be used as they did last year - sparingly and with zero long term commitments.
I would add  
Justlurking : 6/3/2021 9:40 am : link
that if they keep all their picks they should draft shooter after shooter. They were exposed badly on the perimeter. Need to draft guys who can drain 3s from day 1.
Maybe I'm overly pessimistic  
Blue92 : 6/3/2021 9:42 am : link
But I think it will be hard to match this season next year. The team punched above its weight this year, no doubt, but I would expect some mean reversion next year.

I'm not sold on Barrett at all. He's a hard worker and grinder but I just never saw any elite ability in his play. I consider him a good trade chip, not necessarily because of his ability or potential, just the fact that he's on his rookie deal. It's just the Knicks' luck that they got the 3rd pick in a 2 player draft. Some years, the 3rd pick gets you Doncic, Beal, Embiid, Tatum. Unfortunately, we got Barrett.

If the Knicks swing and miss on a star player again this offseason, I think the playoffs are a 50/50 proposition next year.
One  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 9:42 am : link
of the best things they could do right now is lock in Randle for the next 5 years. That will be through his age 32 season aka his prime, and give comfort to any other FA that they'll be playing with him moving forward if they sign on.
^^^^^  
Del Shofner : 6/3/2021 9:44 am : link
I agree with Justlurking. The Hawks series exposed the Knicks as noncompetitive at the playoff level. No big name player is coming here at this time. Try and get the best PG in free agency that we can, and draft shooters. Keep the powder dry as long as possible until there is a more realistic possibility of getting a star - or hope that someone we draft or have drafted turns into one. What Trae Young did should be an inspiration for IQ, for example. And I still see RJB improving a lot.
Knicks  
Archer : 6/3/2021 9:45 am : link
The Knicks need a big that can stretch the floor and defend
Their interior defense was exposed

The Knicks play the three as well as any team but they are killed in the paint

Young and the Hawks had no fear of coming down the middle
The other problem was on offense Randell was double and triple teamed as no one feared the Knicks centers

The Knicks need another point guard as Rose played great but he cannot play extended minutes

lastly the Knicks need another scoring threat preferably not a spot up shooter but someone who can create his own shots

As long as the Knicks do not run an set offense they will rely on players who can create their own shots

It would be great if all three players were premium players but at least two need to be

Lastly the Knicks should attempt to trade up into the top 5 in the draft , preferably top 3

The drop off after the top 5 is dramatic


They have the assets to do this and should be able to fill one of their positions of need

RE: One  
Blue92 : 6/3/2021 9:46 am : link
In comment 15279135 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
of the best things they could do right now is lock in Randle for the next 5 years. That will be through his age 32 season aka his prime, and give comfort to any other FA that they'll be playing with him moving forward if they sign on.

I agree with this. Despite the poor series, Randle is still a plus player/person in the NBA and certainly worth 4/100 or thereabouts. He has a good chance of living up to or outperforming that level of contract if we can get another star here to open things up for him.
RE: Maybe I'm overly pessimistic  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 9:48 am : link
In comment 15279134 Blue92 said:
Quote:
But I think it will be hard to match this season next year. The team punched above its weight this year, no doubt, but I would expect some mean reversion next year.

I'm not sold on Barrett at all. He's a hard worker and grinder but I just never saw any elite ability in his play. I consider him a good trade chip, not necessarily because of his ability or potential, just the fact that he's on his rookie deal. It's just the Knicks' luck that they got the 3rd pick in a 2 player draft. Some years, the 3rd pick gets you Doncic, Beal, Embiid, Tatum. Unfortunately, we got Barrett.

If the Knicks swing and miss on a star player again this offseason, I think the playoffs are a 50/50 proposition next year.


So the Knicks are not going to improve the roster at all? they are not coming back with the same exact team..

If you want to be pessimistic you can, but id be shocked if they dont improve this team
RE: ^^^^^  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 9:50 am : link
In comment 15279138 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
I agree with Justlurking. The Hawks series exposed the Knicks as noncompetitive at the playoff level. No big name player is coming here at this time. Try and get the best PG in free agency that we can, and draft shooters. Keep the powder dry as long as possible until there is a more realistic possibility of getting a star - or hope that someone we draft or have drafted turns into one. What Trae Young did should be an inspiration for IQ, for example. And I still see RJB improving a lot.


Two things.

First: Lets not underestimate the Hawks. They're a really good team and I think will give the Sixers a lot of issues.

Also, there's just no way we're not attractive to FAs right now. After the fan showing out, a good young core, a good coach, huge media market, and now, more importantly, they just finished 4th in the East with basically a rag tag group of one year contracts and Julius Randle.

They'll definitely be an attractive destination.
Kawhi  
TyreeHelmet : 6/3/2021 9:54 am : link
I actually think there is a decent chance he bolts. They will move heaven and earth to keep him and he clearly wants to live in SoCal. But man that team is pretty locked in to that roster. No picks and capped out for the next few years. The only move they have is trading Paul George. But can you really improve that team doing so? They are paying Kennard, M Ibaka and Beverly close to 40 million next year...

I think he looks around. Warriors, Mavs, Miami and the Knicks. Wouldn't you? Or maybe he doesn't really care and just wants to live there. But I do think he needs a playmaker and would certainly seek that.
The  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 9:54 am : link
more I think about it, the more I think the Blazers are just going to blow it up assuming the Nuggets finish them off.

CJ and Dame aren't getting younger. Powell is going to leave this offseason. Covington is already 30 and he and Nurk will both be FAs after next year. Melo's probably gone.

There were already rumors of firing the coach, they still have all their picks.

It's just tough to see them getting better with this group.
Randle  
five5 : 6/3/2021 9:59 am : link
He was terrific this year...little concerned about next year when the ball won’t be in his hands nearly as often as it was this year. His creativity and ability to distribute are huge assets of his. Will be interesting to see how that plays out as there will be a legit PG on the team next year
Frank  
GMEN46 : 6/3/2021 10:02 am : link
Just curious hoopshype lists him with one more year qualifying offer for like $8 million what does that mean? No know we aren’t giving him $8 million more curious about that means?

I anticipate Frank will sign with one of these 6 teams and play a prominent role off the bench, Greg is going to lose his mind:

Lakers
Clippers
Golden state
Milwaukee
Nets
Mavs
They..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/3/2021 10:03 am : link
need to sign at least two top guys with flopping skills!
RE: Frank  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 10:05 am : link
In comment 15279159 GMEN46 said:
Quote:
Just curious hoopshype lists him with one more year qualifying offer for like $8 million what does that mean? No know we aren’t giving him $8 million more curious about that means?

I anticipate Frank will sign with one of these 6 teams and play a prominent role off the bench, Greg is going to lose his mind:

Lakers
Clippers
Golden state
Milwaukee
Nets
Mavs


If they give him the qualifying offer he becomes restricted..

They can not extend the qualifying offer and he becomes an unrestricted free agent
After  
AcidTest : 6/3/2021 10:49 am : link
After years of futility, the Knicks finally had a very good season, despite a poor showing against the Hawks in the playoffs.

My sense from the games I saw, and reading what others who know a lot more than I do, is that the Knicks need to be careful not to overpay for their players this offseason. They shouldn’t hesitate to let players go, including many of Noel, Burks, Bullock, Gibson, and Frank.

Despite his poor showing in the playoffs, Randle is likely to get a big deal, especially since he had a very good regular season. Barrett is also only 20, and there were some positive moments this year from Obi and Quickley. Rose and Mitchell should be retained.

I also agree that the Knicks need PG who can drive and dish, coupled with at least one more solid shooter. A good PG who can regularly breakdown the defense will also help provide better ball movement. Weren’t the Knicks fourth in three point shooting this season? The Hawks were also 1-14 from three last night at one point. A PG would really help Randle.

I don’t see Kawhi, Lillard, or any other star coming to NY at this time.

There is hope.
It'd be nice if the Mavs stomped the Clippers in Game 6.  
bceagle05 : 6/3/2021 10:53 am : link
One of those blowouts that happens in the playoffs sometimes where the losing team let's go of the rope early and gets humiliated. Not saying Kawhi would come here, but maybe him leaving and going somewhere would create a domino effect that benefits us - either a good FA falls in our lap or a team trades us a first rounder or two to absorb money to fit Kawhi (Golden State, I'm looking at you).

We're in a position to get in on the action this summer, so we need as much action as possible.
Extending Randle is a Dolan type move  
ghost718 : 6/3/2021 11:00 am : link
after 20 plus years,you know em when you see em.

The Knicks will be probably be scared to death to lose him.Because their future draft picks are looking less and less attractive.Free Agency is the big game hunt that results in pheasant,quail,and wild turkey's stealing their guns and shooting back at the Knicks.

The trade route is also nothing but a lot of fantasy.

So with that said,maybe we should have been chanting MIA,instead of MVP.

RE: After  
bceagle05 : 6/3/2021 11:00 am : link
In comment 15279192 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Despite his poor showing in the playoffs, Randle is likely to get a big deal, especially since he had a very good regular season. Barrett is also only 20, and there were some positive moments this year from Obi and Quickley. Rose and Mitchell should be retained.

I agree completely with this, and your other thoughts. Randle/RJ/IQ/Mitch/Obi/Rose should be kept (barring some blockbuster trade), and MAYBE Burks or Bullock if the price is reasonable, but not both. Goodbye to the rest.

I'd package the two firsts to move up (even it's just three or four spots) to get the best guard/wing I could, and draft a big with Detroit second rounder who can replace Taj/Noel - those guys are always around in the 30s.
I know the roster isn't anything special yet  
bceagle05 : 6/3/2021 11:05 am : link
but it came a long way in one year, even if it was mostly internal development. A year ago, we figured Randle was a goner after this season, RJ was likely to disappoint (relative to his draft status) and maybe Mitch could be a Capela/prime DeAndre type of difference maker. Beyond that it was just a bunch of mediocre guards and forwards whose skill sets overlapped. At least now we have four or five guys who can play.
Randle  
31southst : 6/3/2021 11:20 am : link
The Knicks are fortunate in the Randle situation as the 4/100 extension is the most they can offer and really is not crippling the way a true 30% max can be. If Randle wants to bet on himself and wait until FA when he can get more, then the Knicks will have another year's evidence (including a non-pandemic year) to see where he is at. I wonder if we might end up somewhere in between (a 1 or 2 year extension to add some financial security for JR but still let him get the market one more time at 29 or 30).
The frustrating thing about this series  
81_Great_Dane : 6/3/2021 11:59 am : link
is the feeling that the Knicks we saw during the regular season didn't show up. Randle and Barrett in particular. So there's a lot of "Randle is a #3" and "Let's package Barrett in a trade," but let's pause here: The regular season happened. We saw what we saw. These guys played a lot better against teams as good or better than the Hawks.

Benching Payton was the right move but it seemed to be very disruptive, for whatever reason. Maybe just because Rose wore down with the extra minutes and neither Burks nor Quickley is really a point guard.

They are nowhere near the upper tier of teams, they are still a rebuilding team that is ahead of schedule, but they shouldn't have been as bad as they looked the last three games. Clearly, though, they're going to have to add two elite players and some very talented role players to reach that upper tier.

I'm not sold on Mitchell Robinson, mostly because I haven't seen much development in his offensive game. He seems content to be what he is. What he is, well, that's pretty good, but probably not good enough to be a starter on a top team. He's still young, but he's a weird dude and he seems to think he's better than he is.

I have high hopes for Obi Toppin and Emanuel Quickley. Quickley seemed to wear down and looked like a rookie over the last month after being much more effective mid-season. Toppin is improving but needs a ton of off-season work.

I'm not optimistic that the Knicks have the draft assets to either draft significant upgrades (that would be a huge stroke of luck at around 20 overall, never mind 33) or to move up to the elite part of the draft. Package those picks with Barrett and/or Toppin and/or Robinson to get a star or a premium pick? Huge roll of the dice. May be necessary.

Randle  
GMEN46 : 6/3/2021 12:03 pm : link
The value of the max right now is pretty good at $25 per year. I agree with above, wouldn’t be surprised if he tried to add on a 1 and 1. So he is locked in for 2 more years at 19 and 25 mil and opt out in year 3. He would then be 29 going into free agency. This would be great for Knicks because would give them cap flexibility for 2022 free agency and they can decide if they want to max him or not in 2023.

Anyone else interested in Sexton for knox and 2 firsts?
I vote to pass on Lonzo Ball  
GMEN46 : 6/3/2021 12:23 pm : link
He really isn’t a PG, we need a true point guard
Bleacher Report says CP3 is gonna decline his option  
bceagle05 : 6/3/2021 1:05 pm : link
and look for a three-year deal. I wonder if that's what Mr. Rose was referencing last night ("bigger plans). I'd be conflicted about that price tag at this point in his career.
Hard pass on 3/100 for an aging and probably declining health  
Stu11 : 6/3/2021 1:10 pm : link
CP3. With the age of our current core- JR, RJ,Mitch, IQ and Obi we have to be looking at more than a 2-3 year window. Of course some of those guys may be gone but still no way in hell I wanna be stuck paying CP3 30-35 mill in 2 years.
Yeah I'd lean against signing CP3 at this point  
bceagle05 : 6/3/2021 1:14 pm : link
but there are a lot of connections here. I don't get too caught up in long term - I'm not sure it exists anymore in the NBA given how short the player contracts are - but this is another year where he's banged up in the postseason.
Right now  
RAIN : 6/3/2021 1:15 pm : link
I’m all in on Davion Mitchell. If we can package our two picks and a player, I’m down to move up. Not sure where he’ll go, but top 10 is likely.
RE: Bleacher Report says CP3 is gonna decline his option  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 1:17 pm : link
In comment 15279308 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
and look for a three-year deal. I wonder if that's what Mr. Rose was referencing last night ("bigger plans). I'd be conflicted about that price tag at this point in his career.


I think Rose would know somewhat of what the Knicks plans are because of how close he is to Wes...

He probably doesnt know specific players but i am sure he has tlaked to Wes about the future for him with new york..
Berman also says Thibs is "in love" with Norm Powell  
bceagle05 : 6/3/2021 1:21 pm : link
who would not be a bad target in FA.
RE: Berman also says Thibs is  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 1:24 pm : link
In comment 15279320 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
who would not be a bad target in FA.


Ooh, good find. I'd love Norm too.
Yep Powell would be a great place to start  
Stu11 : 6/3/2021 1:26 pm : link
Lowry and Powell would be a solid off season at least for starters
RE: Berman also says Thibs is  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15279320 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
who would not be a bad target in FA.


Where did you see that? I went through his last two articles and didn't see that posted.
RE: RE: Berman also says Thibs is  
Strahan91 : 6/3/2021 1:33 pm : link
In comment 15279328 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15279320 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


who would not be a bad target in FA.



Where did you see that? I went through his last two articles and didn't see that posted.

It was a few days ago. In typical Berman fashion he linked an article from before the deadline about Powell that doesn't mention it at all.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Berman also says Thibs is  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 1:38 pm : link
In comment 15279335 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 15279328 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 15279320 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


who would not be a bad target in FA.



Where did you see that? I went through his last two articles and didn't see that posted.


It was a few days ago. In typical Berman fashion he linked an article from before the deadline about Powell that doesn't mention it at all. Link - ( New Window )


Lmao thanks. Berman has some good scoops but is generally a dumbass.
Oh this offseason is going to be fun  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 1:46 pm : link
hasnt even started yet and we are talking about a ton of different scenarios
Malik  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 1:46 pm : link
Beasley got a 4 year 60 mil deal last year. I bet we'd need to go 4/80ish for Norm. Maybe a little less.

We have a big advantage in being one of the few teams with cap room, so not many bidders.
RE: Oh this offseason is going to be fun  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15279342 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
hasnt even started yet and we are talking about a ton of different scenarios


Definitely. A lot of cap room but a lot of holes. Need basically an entire backcourt and most of a bench.

The wild card will be the trade market. Between the 5 picks over the next 3 years, the young players and the cap room, if anyone wants a trade the Knicks should be right there.
Norm  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 1:56 pm : link
is a great example of someone who you would want to pay in FA. In his prime, has always been a role player but with great efficiency and you'd like to see what he could do in a featured role. Could really blossom into a 23-25 ppg scorer if he took more than 13 shots per game. CJ McCollum for example takes 19.

The one thing he doesn't do that we'd still need is a true play maker. Need to pair his addition with a true PG.
RE: Norm  
Strahan91 : 6/3/2021 2:05 pm : link
In comment 15279351 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
is a great example of someone who you would want to pay in FA. In his prime, has always been a role player but with great efficiency and you'd like to see what he could do in a featured role. Could really blossom into a 23-25 ppg scorer if he took more than 13 shots per game. CJ McCollum for example takes 19.

The one thing he doesn't do that we'd still need is a true play maker. Need to pair his addition with a true PG.

He'd fit very nicely next to Lonzo. Norm is undersized for a 2 so that would allow Lonzo to defend bigger guards.
Chris Paul  
RicFlair : 6/3/2021 2:17 pm : link
Is declining his option.
RE: RE: Norm  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 2:19 pm : link
In comment 15279356 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 15279351 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


is a great example of someone who you would want to pay in FA. In his prime, has always been a role player but with great efficiency and you'd like to see what he could do in a featured role. Could really blossom into a 23-25 ppg scorer if he took more than 13 shots per game. CJ McCollum for example takes 19.

The one thing he doesn't do that we'd still need is a true play maker. Need to pair his addition with a true PG.


He'd fit very nicely next to Lonzo. Norm is undersized for a 2 so that would allow Lonzo to defend bigger guards.


He's short, but he has a 6'11 wingspan and is strong. He's actually been playing largely SF for both the Blazers and Raptors.
That's fair Jon.  
Strahan91 : 6/3/2021 3:00 pm : link
Not sure if anyone else mentioned but Begley said Fournier is a name to keep an eye on
Link - ( New Window )
RE: That's fair Jon.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/3/2021 3:19 pm : link
In comment 15279407 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
Not sure if anyone else mentioned but Begley said Fournier is a name to keep an eye on Link - ( New Window )


Fournier looked terrible with Boston every time I saw him, but that might’ve been the after affects of COVID. Apparently he really struggled with it.
Powell would be a good target  
hitdog42 : 6/3/2021 3:29 pm : link
I think Dinwiddie as well.
you get length and versatility in both of those as starting guards- and age on their side vs. the dinosaurs.

the knicks trade assets outside of the picks are still questionable. there is a reason a 20yr old 3rd overall pick is even deemed available by fans, and Toppin couldnt crack a lineup that had no depth. knox they already castrated- so its the picks mostly
Of course the Knicks should look as bad as they did in the last...  
manh george : 6/3/2021 3:38 pm : link
three games. Randle was warn out by playing the most minutes in the league. Noels was playing on a sprained ankle that severely damaged his game. Rose played more minutes in the later part of the season than his knees could handle, and it caught up with him. Having these three players looking a lot worse than they did during the season made it highly unlikely that the Knicks could stay with Atlanta.

The good news is that there are easily close to a dozen ways that the Knick should be stronger next year, including more experience for Quickley and Toppin, an add of a 2 if not a one, a better starting PG, better heathy depth at C, at least some help out of the draft picks, Barrett continuing to progress, and way less necessary PT for Randle and Rose. Get a starting PG, and Rose becomes a wonderful--and well-rested--sixth man at pg. Which, of course is where he bleongs.

Btw, in terms of the regular season, if you recall back to the first two months, we lost a number of very close games in a short period of time. The March/April Knicks would have won a number of those, adding to their regular season record.
RE: Powell would be a good target  
Strahan91 : 6/3/2021 3:42 pm : link
In comment 15279421 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
I think Dinwiddie as well.
you get length and versatility in both of those as starting guards- and age on their side vs. the dinosaurs.

the knicks trade assets outside of the picks are still questionable. there is a reason a 20yr old 3rd overall pick is even deemed available by fans, and Toppin couldnt crack a lineup that had no depth. knox they already castrated- so its the picks mostly

Toppin didn't crack the lineup because Randle let the league in minutes per game. It's just Thibs' style. He played very well in limited minutes later in the season and during the playoffs.

Barrett is deemed available by fans in trades for a superstar. Either you're a 20 year old burgeoning superstar like Zion or fans are willing to move you for one. It's not a knock on him.

There aren't too many teams that are in position to land a star via trade like the Knicks are given the combination of picks, cap space and young players. There are some but the list is a short one.
Yeah we dont want to trade Rj for a bag of balls  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 3:54 pm : link
and to say he isnt worth much is just plain wrong, he improved greatly from his rookie year..

I think the Knicks have the 3rd best assets in the NBA, Warriors first with Wiseman and Twolves pick but they have cap issues..

Okc for the simple fact they just have a ton of picks..

for the Knicks they have young players, drsft picks and cap space
Good article on preparing for next season.  
manh george : 6/3/2021 4:19 pm : link
Quote:
All this being said, what happened in Game 5 should not take away from how important this season was for the New York Knicks and how special this 2020–21 team was. I predicted that this team would go 18-54. After eight years of searching for stability, a head coach, a star player, just about anything, the Knicks are entering the offseason with a clear path to improvement.

Link - ( New Window )
BIGGEST problem I saw in the series (not talked about much)  
Carl in CT : 6/3/2021 4:32 pm : link
In the modern NBA you need a stretch 5. By not having a 5 who could shoot we couldn’t get Capella away from the basket. This clogged all drives and made are pick and roll ineffective. I would love a PG but would like a 5 who could shoot is what really killed us.
Carl, we need four things for next year.  
manh george : 6/3/2021 4:55 pm : link
A star, if not a superstar, at the 3, 4 or 5.

A quality pg.

A big, good-shooting 3.

A stretch 4-5 who can score/shoot.

We should be able to get just about all of that, even if we don't get a true #1. Having 5 quality starters and talented depth from pg to center would make this a much better team. It's achievable. Compare a team with 5 quality starters to what we did most of the year, with Payton starting, and no shooting capability at the 5 whatsoever, either first or second team.
RE: BIGGEST problem I saw in the series (not talked about much)  
Semipro Lineman : 6/3/2021 4:55 pm : link
In comment 15279459 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
In the modern NBA you need a stretch 5. By not having a 5 who could shoot we couldn’t get Capella away from the basket. This clogged all drives and made are pick and roll ineffective. I would love a PG but would like a 5 who could shoot is what really killed us.


I agree with what you are saying but I also feel if the Knicks had healthy centers then Capella would have been forced to respect the lob a lot more which would have cut into his ability to clog the lane. Also, Mitch is a better rebounder (in total stats and on a per 40 minute rate basis) which would have help prevent some of the Hawk's offensive rebounds which killed the Knicks.
Carl, we need four things for next year.  
manh george : 6/3/2021 4:55 pm : link
A star, if not a superstar, at the 3, 4 or 5.

A quality pg.

A big, good-shooting 3.

A stretch 4-5 who can score/shoot.

We should be able to get just about all of that, even if we don't get a true #1. Having 5 quality starters and talented depth from pg to center would make this a much better team. It's achievable. Compare a team with 5 quality starters to what we did most of the year, with Payton starting, and no shooting capability at the 5 whatsoever, either first or second team.
RE: RE: BIGGEST problem I saw in the series (not talked about much)  
Strahan91 : 6/3/2021 5:04 pm : link
In comment 15279468 Semipro Lineman said:
Quote:
In comment 15279459 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


In the modern NBA you need a stretch 5. By not having a 5 who could shoot we couldn’t get Capella away from the basket. This clogged all drives and made are pick and roll ineffective. I would love a PG but would like a 5 who could shoot is what really killed us.



I agree with what you are saying but I also feel if the Knicks had healthy centers then Capella would have been forced to respect the lob a lot more which would have cut into his ability to clog the lane. Also, Mitch is a better rebounder (in total stats and on a per 40 minute rate basis) which would have help prevent some of the Hawk's offensive rebounds which killed the Knicks.

Had Mitch gotten hurt a day or two earlier it's entirely possible that the Knicks would've gotten aggressive with Drummond on a big one year deal. As much as I don't like Drummond's game, I do believe he would've made a pretty big difference in the series given how badly Capela abused the Knicks in the paint and on the glass.
Joe Lacob talking crazy when it comes to Steph  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 5:05 pm : link
basically said no guarantee and players get older and lose value and that even Joe Montana played for another team...

Craziness
I'd be in favor of offer-sheeting John Collins  
bigbluehoya : 6/3/2021 5:11 pm : link
have always loved his game. He can guard any of the 3 front-court positions, very athletic and can shoot. I wouldn't want him as the starting 5, but stretch 5 for 10-15 minutes per game in a smaller lineup is doable.

Bit of an odd fit with Randle, for sure. I do wonder if Collins could fit next to Randle as a starting SF.
RE: Joe Lacob talking crazy when it comes to Steph  
Jon in NYC : 6/3/2021 5:16 pm : link
In comment 15279476 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
basically said no guarantee and players get older and lose value and that even Joe Montana played for another team...

Craziness


If he doesn't want him we can take him.
RE: I'd be in favor of offer-sheeting John Collins  
Strahan91 : 6/3/2021 5:17 pm : link
In comment 15279481 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
have always loved his game. He can guard any of the 3 front-court positions, very athletic and can shoot. I wouldn't want him as the starting 5, but stretch 5 for 10-15 minutes per game in a smaller lineup is doable.

Bit of an odd fit with Randle, for sure. I do wonder if Collins could fit next to Randle as a starting SF.

He's not really a SF. He can't really create for himself and he's not a good perimeter defender. You'd basically be paying him big money to play out of position and he reportedly wants BIG money.
RE: RE: Joe Lacob talking crazy when it comes to Steph  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/3/2021 6:08 pm : link
In comment 15279485 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15279476 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


basically said no guarantee and players get older and lose value and that even Joe Montana played for another team...

Craziness



If he doesn't want him we can take him.


This is simply preparing the fan base for the possibility that Steph walks next offseason since he’s probably refusing any extensions that have been offered.
This is tough to also say  
Carl in CT : 6/3/2021 6:20 pm : link
But I want to stay patient if we are unable to land a star. I don’t want to overpay fro Ball or that type of player. You have to have team chemistry. Look at player by player on Chicago. Some could argue they have two or 3 players better than anyone we have and look at their record. Need to find more two way players (but better). Also keep our flexibility unless a star pops up.
There is work to be done,but finally a light  
Matt M. : 6/3/2021 6:37 pm : link
at the end of the tunnel. Randle scars with the idea of max, and even at $25M (not a true max), I'm not loving it. But, I can't see not paying him. They finally got some talent. It would send the wrong message to not pay the man. And, I dont think he has to be a 3rd option. One star,true #1, plus a good PG and this team can take off. I love a developing Bsrrett plus 2nd year Toppin and Quickly. If they can manage to keep Rose off the bench for 20 minutes a night, he could be a candidate for 6th man. I like Robinson and think he can start one good team b/c he would be the 4th or 5th option.
RE: Joe Lacob talking crazy when it comes to Steph  
TyreeHelmet : 6/3/2021 6:46 pm : link
In comment 15279476 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
basically said no guarantee and players get older and lose value and that even Joe Montana played for another team...

Craziness


"Light years" ahead of the rest of the league. One of the biggest douche owners out there.
RE: RE: RE: Joe Lacob talking crazy when it comes to Steph  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 7:14 pm : link
In comment 15279503 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15279485 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 15279476 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


basically said no guarantee and players get older and lose value and that even Joe Montana played for another team...

Craziness



If he doesn't want him we can take him.



This is simply preparing the fan base for the possibility that Steph walks next offseason since he’s probably refusing any extensions that have been offered.


There should be no issue, you offer curry the max and you dont think twice
RE: Joe Lacob talking crazy when it comes to Steph  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/3/2021 7:29 pm : link
In comment 15279476 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
basically said no guarantee and players get older and lose value and that even Joe Montana played for another team...

Craziness


I can't envision Steph in another uni. He should be a Warrior for life. He means too much to the Bay & that fan base. Also, Lacob is a jackass.
They give Randle a max contract  
Giant John : 6/3/2021 7:30 pm : link
Knicks are idiots. Solid player yes. Pay him yes. But not max. Sorry Mr. Randle but max players have to show when everyone is watching.
GiantJohn...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/3/2021 7:32 pm : link
I wouldn't lose sleep over JR getting a max this summer. He's not.
RE: They give Randle a max contract  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 7:34 pm : link
In comment 15279541 Giant John said:
Quote:
Knicks are idiots. Solid player yes. Pay him yes. But not max. Sorry Mr. Randle but max players have to show when everyone is watching.


what is his max?
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/3/2021 7:40 pm : link
Beal didn't sound so committed to returning to the Wiz last night as he had previously. Maybe it was a heat of the moment thing, but worth keeping an eye on.
Maxes  
31southst : 6/3/2021 8:33 pm : link
People don't understand there are a bunch of levels of max. The "max" the Knicks can offer JR this summer as an extension is less than the max he could sign for as a FA after next year, which itself is less than the max he could sign for as a FA if he entered with 10+ years in the league.

If the Knicks can get JR to sign a max extension this summer, it would be for just over 4/100, not even close to his max number as a FA next year (something like 4/140).

I do wonder if there is any appetite to decline JR's guarantee for next year and get creative on a new contract (i.e., pay him more than 20m but on a declining number or something).
Off-topic, but how right were Knicks on Draft Night in 2018?  
Anakim : 6/3/2021 8:47 pm : link
Fans were chanting "We Want Porter" and ended up with Kevin fucking Knox
RE: Off-topic, but how right were Knicks on Draft Night in 2018?  
Anakim : 6/3/2021 8:52 pm : link
In comment 15279599 Anakim said:
Quote:
Fans were chanting "We Want Porter" and ended up with Kevin fucking Knox


*Knicks fans
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/3/2021 8:54 pm : link
Porter Jr. is a-health provided-stud for awhile.
RE: RE: Joe Lacob talking crazy when it comes to Steph  
BigBlueShock : 6/3/2021 9:13 pm : link
In comment 15279539 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15279476 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


basically said no guarantee and players get older and lose value and that even Joe Montana played for another team...

Craziness



I can't envision Steph in another uni. He should be a Warrior for life. He means too much to the Bay & that fan base. Also, Lacob is a jackass.

This is nonsense. Steph should have been a Knick from the beginning. One freakin pick, damn it! And he at the time wanted to be a Knick.

My mini rant aside, I compare this to when LeBron left Cleveland the first time. People, Cleveland fans in particular acted like it was their birth right to keep him forever, Why? They got to enjoy him and reap the benefits of his greatness for many years, This is a business. Steph doesn’t owe Warrior fans anything. Or “the Bay Area” for that matter. If he or the team decide it’s best to move on, life will go on. Great players change teams all the time. Nobody on the planet will feel bad for the Bay Area If Steph leaves. They’ve been able to live a fan life that most of us on this planet never have and never will with their basketball team. So I’m sorry if I’m not shedding tears at Steph leaving. Those poor fans will somehow get through it.
I know this is the last thing anyone wants to hear  
Mike from SI : 6/3/2021 9:16 pm : link
but we should root for the Hawks to crush the Sixers and then put up a great fight against the Nets/Bucks. That will comfort a lot of potential acquisitions.

Lack of a stretch 5 was a big problem but we also had other issues. Namely, so many one dimensional (or largely worthless) players on offense. Bullock looked so uncomfortable whenever he had to dribble; he can really only catch and shoot or shoot after 1-2 dribbles at most. Elf can't shoot at all and Frank can only shoot but do nothing else. Both centers basically are a black hole on offense. I love Rose and his shot was good during the series but nobody is scared of him shooting from 3. The only multidimensional players we had on offense are Randle, RJ, Rose (although again he's not a great 3 shooter), Burks, and IQ. Obi showed flashes of being able to get to the bucket which was a great surprise, but who knows what he really is.

We cannot go into next season with so many guys who are either 0s on offense or can do only 1 thing.
BBS...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/3/2021 9:23 pm : link
You seriously underestimate how beloved Steph is loved by Warriors fans. I was in the Bay his first couple of years there & he is their Magic, Bird, Jordan. Yes, he owes nothing to the fans, but I really hope he just finishes his career there. I'd like to think playing one place an entire career still means something.

I'm still glad Eli only was a Giant.
And now Portland becomes interesting  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 10:34 pm : link
..
Beal out early, Lillard out early.  
bceagle05 : 6/3/2021 10:37 pm : link
Hopefully Kawhi out early. CP3 reportedly opting out. Get as many guys into the mix as possible.
RE: Beal out early, Lillard out early.  
nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 10:40 pm : link
In comment 15279656 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Hopefully Kawhi out early. CP3 reportedly opting out. Get as many guys into the mix as possible.


There is no reasonnfor Lillard to stay there except for blind loyalty, 4 of the last 5 years lost first round, capped out, no 1st round pick this year..

signed long term so who knows if Portland would even honor a trade request
Only chance Knicks have this off-season for a superstar  
slickwilly : 6/3/2021 10:46 pm : link
is if someone pulls a Harden. Who is doing that to come to the Knicks? Let's be real and I am a Knicks fan. Build the culture, get some respect back and the big move will most likely be a player forcing his way here. This is the new way of the NBA if we are being honest.
I don't see the Knicks going big this year.  
larryflower37 : 6/4/2021 12:43 am : link
This is a weak FA class.
The year after is the big FA class.

IMO they keep their cap room and sign a bunch of one year deals again.
Move up in the draft for a PG.
Resign Taj,Rose,and Bullock.
Next year's trade deadline could be crazy with as many big names up for FA.
I'm team Lonzo/Powell  
adamg : 6/4/2021 1:11 am : link
Give me youth and upside.
I'd bring back Taj, Rose, Bullock and Burks too  
adamg : 6/4/2021 1:12 am : link
I'd take Mitch over Noel easily too. I think they should consider extending Mitch soon.
And draft a center with the DET pick  
adamg : 6/4/2021 1:12 am : link
.
Laker knocked out already  
adamg : 6/4/2021 4:05 am : link
The end of an era?
Lillard just posted on ig  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 5:42 am : link
"how long do i stay dedicated"
RE: Lillard just posted on ig  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/4/2021 6:07 am : link
In comment 15279692 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
"how long do i stay dedicated"


Please come to NY Dame. Please.
RE: RE: Lillard just posted on ig  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 7:23 am : link
In comment 15279693 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15279692 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


"how long do i stay dedicated"



Please come to NY Dame. Please.


He may ask out, question is will Portland trade him and what would they want?

Do they want win now players or do they conpletely blow it up and want young players and draft picks?
RE: I know this is the last thing anyone wants to hear  
TommyWiseau : 6/4/2021 8:21 am : link
In comment 15279611 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
but we should root for the Hawks to crush the Sixers and then put up a great fight against the Nets/Bucks. That will comfort a lot of potential acquisitions.

Lack of a stretch 5 was a big problem but we also had other issues. Namely, so many one dimensional (or largely worthless) players on offense. Bullock looked so uncomfortable whenever he had to dribble; he can really only catch and shoot or shoot after 1-2 dribbles at most. Elf can't shoot at all and Frank can only shoot but do nothing else. Both centers basically are a black hole on offense. I love Rose and his shot was good during the series but nobody is scared of him shooting from 3. The only multidimensional players we had on offense are Randle, RJ, Rose (although again he's not a great 3 shooter), Burks, and IQ. Obi showed flashes of being able to get to the bucket which was a great surprise, but who knows what he really is.

We cannot go into next season with so many guys who are either 0s on offense or can do only 1 thing.


Christian Wood would have been that stretch 5 that many on here wanted in the offseason (I know he got injured this year). He was on fire when healthy and hitting 3's at a good %.
He also  
TommyWiseau : 6/4/2021 8:23 am : link
came pretty cheap at 3 years 41 mil. Ugh
Portland's  
Jon in NYC : 6/4/2021 8:24 am : link
in a great position to blow it up. They have all their picks, Lillard, McCollum, RoCo and Nurkic will all bring back nice returns.

They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.

I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.

He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.

Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.

I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.

But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.
RE: Portland's  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 8:42 am : link
In comment 15279714 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
in a great position to blow it up. They have all their picks, Lillard, McCollum, RoCo and Nurkic will all bring back nice returns.

They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.

I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.

He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.

Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.

I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.

But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.


Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch
Dame  
31southst : 6/4/2021 8:56 am : link
Dame has 4 years left so I think they hold him. I could see them moving CJ though and I think the Vucevic trade could be a decent comp (young guy, salary guy, 2 firsts). Maybe something like Obi, Knox, 2021 first, 2023 first, and some seconds. Gets a huge PG upgrade now but still keeps some ammo for a later trade. Hurts to give up Obi but if you believe in Randle (and I think the Knicks do), better to cash that chip early IMO.

Depending on FA, could roll out a lineup of something like CJ/RJ/Norm Powell/Randle/Mitch with a second unit of Rose/IQ/Luca Vildoza/Taj/first rounder.
RE: Dame  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 9:01 am : link
In comment 15279719 31southst said:
Quote:
Dame has 4 years left so I think they hold him. I could see them moving CJ though and I think the Vucevic trade could be a decent comp (young guy, salary guy, 2 firsts). Maybe something like Obi, Knox, 2021 first, 2023 first, and some seconds. Gets a huge PG upgrade now but still keeps some ammo for a later trade. Hurts to give up Obi but if you believe in Randle (and I think the Knicks do), better to cash that chip early IMO.

Depending on FA, could roll out a lineup of something like CJ/RJ/Norm Powell/Randle/Mitch with a second unit of Rose/IQ/Luca Vildoza/Taj/first rounder.


Mcollum is not a point guard
RE: RE: Portland's  
Jon in NYC : 6/4/2021 9:05 am : link
In comment 15279716 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15279714 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


in a great position to blow it up. They have all their picks, Lillard, McCollum, RoCo and Nurkic will all bring back nice returns.

They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.

I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.

He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.

Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.

I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.

But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.



Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch


It sounds like the salary cap will be at 112 mil. If you waive everyone's bird rights, waive Pelle's unguaranteed contract, and include Noah's dead cap (FACK), that puts them at 47.5 mil, so the baseline is 64.5 mil in space.

Lillard's salary next year is 35% of the cap, so lets say 39 mil. Trading just Obi (5.5) and Knox (5.8), drops that down 28 mil, so they'd have 36.5 left. They'd probably have to add RJ, so that's another 8.6, and they'd have 45.1 mil left in space.

So yeah, you're right. Still have plenty of room to add another max and even a couple more guys after that.

I mean it's worth asking: Does a Lillard/Randle duo attract Kawhi too? If so you have to get it done at all costs.
RE: RE: RE: Portland's  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 9:10 am : link
In comment 15279727 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15279716 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15279714 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


in a great position to blow it up. They have all their picks, Lillard, McCollum, RoCo and Nurkic will all bring back nice returns.

They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.

I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.

He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.

Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.

I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.

But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.



Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch



It sounds like the salary cap will be at 112 mil. If you waive everyone's bird rights, waive Pelle's unguaranteed contract, and include Noah's dead cap (FACK), that puts them at 47.5 mil, so the baseline is 64.5 mil in space.

Lillard's salary next year is 35% of the cap, so lets say 39 mil. Trading just Obi (5.5) and Knox (5.8), drops that down 28 mil, so they'd have 36.5 left. They'd probably have to add RJ, so that's another 8.6, and they'd have 45.1 mil left in space.

So yeah, you're right. Still have plenty of room to add another max and even a couple more guys after that.

I mean it's worth asking: Does a Lillard/Randle duo attract Kawhi too? If so you have to get it done at all costs.


yeah plus your trading picks so that will add space as well..

Question at that point would be, do you go for the 3rd max or do you add a bunch of pieces around that duo and have a deep team?
Once all is said and done  
Jon in NYC : 6/4/2021 9:10 am : link
I'd also love to bring Rose back on the Room exception (2 years/10 mil) that they have access to once the cap space is used up. Not sure that will be enough for him though. An alternative would be to use that on either Bullock or Burks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Portland's  
Jon in NYC : 6/4/2021 9:14 am : link
In comment 15279728 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15279727 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 15279716 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15279714 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


in a great position to blow it up. They have all their picks, Lillard, McCollum, RoCo and Nurkic will all bring back nice returns.

They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.

I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.

He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.

Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.

I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.

But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.



Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch



It sounds like the salary cap will be at 112 mil. If you waive everyone's bird rights, waive Pelle's unguaranteed contract, and include Noah's dead cap (FACK), that puts them at 47.5 mil, so the baseline is 64.5 mil in space.

Lillard's salary next year is 35% of the cap, so lets say 39 mil. Trading just Obi (5.5) and Knox (5.8), drops that down 28 mil, so they'd have 36.5 left. They'd probably have to add RJ, so that's another 8.6, and they'd have 45.1 mil left in space.

So yeah, you're right. Still have plenty of room to add another max and even a couple more guys after that.

I mean it's worth asking: Does a Lillard/Randle duo attract Kawhi too? If so you have to get it done at all costs.



yeah plus your trading picks so that will add space as well..

Question at that point would be, do you go for the 3rd max or do you add a bunch of pieces around that duo and have a deep team?


I mean honestly you could do a bit of both.

Say Kawhi signs for 35 mil. That leaves you with 10. Bring back Rose, bring back Taj, bring back Bullock with the Room exception. Still have Vildoza too who is a question mark.

Mitch-Randle-Kawhi-Bullock-Lillard

Taj-Rose-IQ-Vildoza + probably need one or two more solid vet pickups somehow or draft picks.
Guys typing on a message board are much quicker to blow things up  
Stu11 : 6/4/2021 9:15 am : link
Than NBA GM's are. I'm not so sure Portland is so quick to do it as you guys think. After a year of no hate revenue I'm not believing they want to blow it up and kill their attendance next year as well. Yes they have been ousted in the 1st rd the past few years, but they did make the 3rd rd a few years ago, their key guys have at least a few years left in their primes. The west is kind of in flux a bit. I could see them dealing Mccollum, and I'd be in on that, but Dame is a pipe dream I can't allow myself to get sucked into. I think its just as possible they view themselves as a Phoenix or Utah in waiting. Who knows I guess we'll see.
RE: Guys typing on a message board are much quicker to blow things up  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 9:19 am : link
In comment 15279732 Stu11 said:
Quote:
Than NBA GM's are. I'm not so sure Portland is so quick to do it as you guys think. After a year of no hate revenue I'm not believing they want to blow it up and kill their attendance next year as well. Yes they have been ousted in the 1st rd the past few years, but they did make the 3rd rd a few years ago, their key guys have at least a few years left in their primes. The west is kind of in flux a bit. I could see them dealing Mccollum, and I'd be in on that, but Dame is a pipe dream I can't allow myself to get sucked into. I think its just as possible they view themselves as a Phoenix or Utah in waiting. Who knows I guess we'll see.


i dont know even Nurkic alluded to not wanting to be there anymore..

Stotts i think will be fired, team has plateaued and they really have no way of getting better
Guys typing on a message board are much quicker to blow things up  
Stu11 : 6/4/2021 9:20 am : link
Than NBA GM's are. I'm not so sure Portland is so quick to do it as you guys think. After a year of no hate revenue I'm not believing they want to blow it up and kill their attendance next year as well. Yes they have been ousted in the 1st rd the past few years, but they did make the 3rd rd a few years ago, their key guys have at least a few years left in their primes. The west is kind of in flux a bit. I could see them dealing Mccollum, and I'd be in on that, but Dame is a pipe dream I can't allow myself to get sucked into. I think its just as possible they view themselves as a Phoenix or Utah in waiting. Who knows I guess we'll see.
RE: RE: Guys typing on a message board are much quicker to blow things up  
Stu11 : 6/4/2021 9:22 am : link
In comment 15279736 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15279732 Stu11 said:


Quote:


Than NBA GM's are. I'm not so sure Portland is so quick to do it as you guys think. After a year of no hate revenue I'm not believing they want to blow it up and kill their attendance next year as well. Yes they have been ousted in the 1st rd the past few years, but they did make the 3rd rd a few years ago, their key guys have at least a few years left in their primes. The west is kind of in flux a bit. I could see them dealing Mccollum, and I'd be in on that, but Dame is a pipe dream I can't allow myself to get sucked into. I think its just as possible they view themselves as a Phoenix or Utah in waiting. Who knows I guess we'll see.



i dont know even Nurkic alluded to not wanting to be there anymore..

Stotts i think will be fired, team has plateaued and they really have no way of getting better

You could be right. Like I said who knows? It was a bitter loss last night. They were in total control late in the 3rd and it all fell apart.
RE: RE: RE: Guys typing on a message board are much quicker to blow things up  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 9:35 am : link
In comment 15279739 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 15279736 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15279732 Stu11 said:


Quote:


Than NBA GM's are. I'm not so sure Portland is so quick to do it as you guys think. After a year of no hate revenue I'm not believing they want to blow it up and kill their attendance next year as well. Yes they have been ousted in the 1st rd the past few years, but they did make the 3rd rd a few years ago, their key guys have at least a few years left in their primes. The west is kind of in flux a bit. I could see them dealing Mccollum, and I'd be in on that, but Dame is a pipe dream I can't allow myself to get sucked into. I think its just as possible they view themselves as a Phoenix or Utah in waiting. Who knows I guess we'll see.



i dont know even Nurkic alluded to not wanting to be there anymore..

Stotts i think will be fired, team has plateaued and they really have no way of getting better


You could be right. Like I said who knows? It was a bitter loss last night. They were in total control late in the 3rd and it all fell apart.


absolutely we dont know...there was a lot if frustration after game 5 to
I don't see the trade fit for McCollum  
Heisenberg : 6/4/2021 9:45 am : link
I feel like the Knicks would probably rather sign Powell than trade assets for McCollum. That CJ contract is not great. Wouldn't you rather get Powell for less and hold on to the picks and Obi or Q?

I love CJ and if the Blazers were blowing it up for cap space or willing to take less, then ok. But I don't really see it otherwise.
RE: Guys typing on a message board are much quicker to blow things up  
Heisenberg : 6/4/2021 9:46 am : link
In comment 15279737 Stu11 said:
Quote:
Than NBA GM's are. I'm not so sure Portland is so quick to do it as you guys think. After a year of no hate revenue I'm not believing they want to blow it up and kill their attendance next year as well. Yes they have been ousted in the 1st rd the past few years, but they did make the 3rd rd a few years ago, their key guys have at least a few years left in their primes. The west is kind of in flux a bit. I could see them dealing Mccollum, and I'd be in on that, but Dame is a pipe dream I can't allow myself to get sucked into. I think its just as possible they view themselves as a Phoenix or Utah in waiting. Who knows I guess we'll see.


For what it's worth, I've read a few Blazer blogs who think they will blow it up.
RE: I don't see the trade fit for McCollum  
Jon in NYC : 6/4/2021 9:53 am : link
In comment 15279751 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
I feel like the Knicks would probably rather sign Powell than trade assets for McCollum. That CJ contract is not great. Wouldn't you rather get Powell for less and hold on to the picks and Obi or Q?

I love CJ and if the Blazers were blowing it up for cap space or willing to take less, then ok. But I don't really see it otherwise.


Yeah I'd rather have Norm as a FA than CJ as a trade. The CJ trade makes more sense for like the Lakers, or Celtics, or Nuggets even, a team against the cap that has some salary and assets to move.
RE: Guys typing on a message board are much quicker to blow things up  
Strahan91 : 6/4/2021 10:01 am : link
In comment 15279737 Stu11 said:
Quote:
Than NBA GM's are. I'm not so sure Portland is so quick to do it as you guys think. After a year of no hate revenue I'm not believing they want to blow it up and kill their attendance next year as well. Yes they have been ousted in the 1st rd the past few years, but they did make the 3rd rd a few years ago, their key guys have at least a few years left in their primes. The west is kind of in flux a bit. I could see them dealing Mccollum, and I'd be in on that, but Dame is a pipe dream I can't allow myself to get sucked into. I think its just as possible they view themselves as a Phoenix or Utah in waiting. Who knows I guess we'll see.

OKC a few years ago is a good comp for where they're at. The issue with running it back actually is financial for them. They just paid the league's biggest luxury tax bill and there's no way for them to avoid it again while improving the roster. That's a big pill to swallow for a team that has been eliminated in the first round in 4 of the last 5 years.
RE: RE: I don't see the trade fit for McCollum  
Strahan91 : 6/4/2021 10:08 am : link
In comment 15279757 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15279751 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


I feel like the Knicks would probably rather sign Powell than trade assets for McCollum. That CJ contract is not great. Wouldn't you rather get Powell for less and hold on to the picks and Obi or Q?

I love CJ and if the Blazers were blowing it up for cap space or willing to take less, then ok. But I don't really see it otherwise.



Yeah I'd rather have Norm as a FA than CJ as a trade. The CJ trade makes more sense for like the Lakers, or Celtics, or Nuggets even, a team against the cap that has some salary and assets to move.

I actually think it's reasonable to believe that they trade CJ and resign Powell. They have no avenues to improve the roster right now and despite having Powell's bird rights, the luxury tax is likely to make it very difficult to resign him with CJ and Dame under contract. But if you trade CJ and get some cap relief and players/trade assets that's probably preferable to running back mostly the same team san Powell.
Blazers  
TyreeHelmet : 6/4/2021 11:59 am : link
I'm usually pretty reluctant to say this, but its not a bad idea for them to blow it up. You could get maximum value for CJ, and Lillard and reboot. I just don't see a reasonable path to contender for them in the next few years.

But its easier said than done to trade a 1st team all nba player. It's honestly probably more a question if Lillard wants out?

And I know this is beyond a pipe dream, or maybe happens somewhere thats not the Knicks, but I think Kawhi would 100% be attracted to play with a true point like Lillard.
TH that's the crazy thing  
Stu11 : 6/4/2021 12:16 pm : link
We have more than enough assets to put together a more than competitive package for Dame and then turn around and unless I'm mistaken still have the room for a max FA like Kawhi
I remember how shocked I was  
bceagle05 : 6/4/2021 12:22 pm : link
when news broke that Kawhi and Paul George were headed to the Clips, after they basically demanded LAC and OKC make it happen.

Similar news of Kawhi and Dame to NYK might just kill me.
Lakers and Clippers  
GMEN46 : 6/4/2021 1:00 pm : link
I love how people lost the Lakers can Clippers as teams that may be in on Lillard. Both teams literally have nothing left of value. It’s comical what are Lakers offering the blazers?

For Knicks If you have a chance at kawhi the move is to sign Lowry. The problem that kawhi has is he got his second star in George but they do not have a well rounded team and they don’t have great depth. If Knicks trade eveything for lillard ie mitch, Quickley, Rj and all their picks. They have a big 3 with Randle I guess but still lacking talent at other positions and no cap space. Kawhi won the title by being the clear number 1 and playing with a really good balanced team.

I think the following team would be really good:

Lowry
Kawhi
Barrett
Randle
Mitch

Quickley
Rose
Davion mitchell - move up on draft to get him
Knox - they will have to play him next year
Toppin
Gibson or other vet
Bullock or burks
Ring chasing vet, maybe noel if you have room.
European point guard
2nd rd pick

Then you still have caproom in 2022 to get lavine or Beal. In this scenario you can still try a mid season trade for lavine ir Beal and maybe you get it done with just RJ and picks.

Davion mitchell hopefully becomes your pg of the future.in this scenario the Knicks second team could be really good. assuming continued improvements by Quickley and Toppin.

I think we all agree  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 1:14 pm : link
if Kawhi leaves Clippers, he is going to want to go somewhere he can get a 2nd star with him, i think he would sign up to play with Lillard in a second..

16  
Carl in CT : 6/4/2021 1:25 pm : link
Dame would be that kind of player. J Randle as #3 also looks nice. We can only dream.
guys - this summer Kawhi turns 30 and Dame turns 31 -  
Del Shofner : 6/4/2021 1:43 pm : link
committing much of our resources to players that age is not a concern? When would their contracts roll off?

Not saying it's a bad idea to try for one or both of them, just trying to picture the longer term.
RE: guys - this summer Kawhi turns 30 and Dame turns 31 -  
Leg of Theismann : 6/4/2021 2:34 pm : link
In comment 15279960 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
committing much of our resources to players that age is not a concern? When would their contracts roll off?

Not saying it's a bad idea to try for one or both of them, just trying to picture the longer term.


If this were the NFL I would maybe be concerned. But a superstar having just turned 30 in the NBA is not of concern to me. I believe Kawhi and Dame still each have a few years left in their primes-- It's not like either of them have been plagued by injuries in their careers. The purpose of any organization is to win a championship-- If you have a chance to get 2 top 10 talents together for 3-4 years you have to take your chances IMO.

Kawhi + Dame w/ Randle as a 3rd option is probably our only hope of competing w/ the big 3 in Brooklyn for the foreseeable future. And I actually really like our chances against the Nets given that Kawhi and Dame are 2 of the most clutch performers of this era (hopefully Randle can get his shit together in the postseason).

I doubt we'd be able to keep RJ in the trade for Dame but if we could somehow then another leap for him this offseason similar to what he had last year and suddenly we have 4 all stars on this team with 2 of them being top 10 talents.
I’ll admit I’m also a bit biased  
Leg of Theismann : 6/4/2021 3:09 pm : link
Because team allegiances aside, Kawhi and Dame may be my 2 favorite players in the NBA. I love how clutch Dame is and how he doesn’t seem to be a guy who would ever go to LA to be Lebron’s sidekick. Kawhi strikes me as being of similar ilk.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Kawhi. I saw a tweet last year (linked below) pointing out that Kawhi has saved the NBA 3 separate times: he 1) ended the big 3 in Miami, 2) ended the Warriors super team, and 3) refused to go to the Lakers and hence ended that super team before it even started (and instead decided to do his own thing with the Clippers in the same damn building and town as the Lakers). The tweet says “Kawhi is the balance in the Force, the real-life last Jedi” lol

Dame and Kawhi strike me as 2 very similar people.
Link - ( New Window )
granted,  
Leg of Theismann : 6/4/2021 3:14 pm : link
I guess the KD and Klay injuries may have done more to end the Warriors super team more than anything, but if they somehow had been able to pull off winning that series in 2019 even w/ the injuries, who knows what would've happened after that-- maybe they would've tried to keep the band together. KD did say the main reason he left was because Draymond went off on him multiple times basically saying "we don't need you, we won without you" and things like that-- that may have been smoothed over by winning a championship, but losing the finals was the nail in the coffin I think and what made KD decide to move on to different things.
One thing to remember to  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 3:28 pm : link
lets say the best possible outcome happens and Lillard and Kaehi come with Randle still here..

Knicks win 1 champiosnhip in the 5 years they are here, when they leave the stink that this team has had is long gone, you dont think more would want to come and follow in their footsteps?

Yeha they are 30, and they may not be here for 10 years, but your now set the standard for players to come here and team up
Haven’t read through the whole thread..  
Sean : 6/4/2021 5:04 pm : link
But, what does a package for Dame look like? Obviously the draft assets are there, can Mitch, Knox & Frank/Quickley plus draft picks be enough? I’d like to keep RJ.
RE: Haven’t read through the whole thread..  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 5:18 pm : link
In comment 15280130 Sean said:
Quote:
But, what does a package for Dame look like? Obviously the draft assets are there, can Mitch, Knox & Frank/Quickley plus draft picks be enough? I’d like to keep RJ.


It would be what the plab was to build around Lillard and Randle, if you want another max then Rj probably has to be in the deal
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/4/2021 7:03 pm : link
Regardless of whether Dame gets dealt, I think we're going to see significant changes in Portland this summer. I don't think Stotts will be retained.
I have to stay off of facebook  
Leg of Theismann : 6/4/2021 8:46 pm : link
I just got reeled into a an argument in one of those Knicks groups with a guy who just said the reason we don't need Dame is because we already have Luca Vildoza who is "going to be the truth like Doncic." I asked who told him Vildoza was supposed to be anything like Doncic or anywhere near as good. Their first names are similar and they both played in Europe and after that the similarities end. He said "that has been the comparison." Who is spreading these lies?

I love how passionate my fellow Knicks fans are but there are truly a lot of stupid ones out there.
Portland fires Stotts  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 10:39 pm : link
..
Mavs - Clips  
Del Shofner : 6/4/2021 11:15 pm : link
good game
Dallas just blew this game  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 11:31 pm : link
amazing a team cant win at home in this series..
Dallas went up 7  
nygiants16 : 6/4/2021 11:34 pm : link
and just decided to chuck 3s the rest of the quarter
as good of a performance  
MookGiants : 6/4/2021 11:35 pm : link
as you will ever see.

Absurd shooting percentage for Kawhi, and they've needed every bit of his scoring
Count me out of trading the farm for Kawhi and Dame  
adamg : 6/5/2021 3:04 am : link
Kawhi is the man. But I'd rather build through the draft and FA than trading away our young talent.
RE: Once all is said and done  
adamg : 6/5/2021 3:05 am : link
In comment 15279729 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
I'd also love to bring Rose back on the Room exception (2 years/10 mil) that they have access to once the cap space is used up. Not sure that will be enough for him though. An alternative would be to use that on either Bullock or Burks.


Rose deserves more and should get it. Give that to Bullock.
RE: Count me out of trading the farm for Kawhi and Dame  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 5:33 am : link
In comment 15280321 adamg said:
Quote:
Kawhi is the man. But I'd rather build through the draft and FA than trading away our young talent.


Just to clarify Adam the plan would be to trade for Dame and then sign Kawhi. We wouldn’t have to trade for both of them. We’d hope Kawhi opts out and signs w/ us.

The thing is: I think we’d need both of them to know the other is coming in order to want to come here— which one of them would come here first lol? I’m hoping Dame first would push for Portland to trade him here (a la a Harden situation). I think Kawhi would then be attracted to come. Don’t ask me why, I just imagine Kawhi would love to play w/ Lillard.

I could see Dame wanting to come here after seeing the Garden go crazy in the playoffs — he lives for pressure and big moments and the big stage. He feeds off of it. Portland just doesn’t seem like the place for a guy like that. I think he’s also very loyal and not a quitter so that’s what’s keeping him there, but based on what he’s been saying the last couple days it feels like the desperation to win and not waste his career will prevail (especially now that he’s turned 30, who among us didnt take a hard look at things when we turned 30 ha) . Also — knowing how serious the culture is here about winning and hard work. He wants to be on a team where he knows all 15 guys and the coaching staff are putting in overtime and it’s not just him doing it. Dame needs to in the next few years, but he doesn’t want to just join a team like the Lakers and be Lebrons sidekick. Knicks seem like an ideal situation to me.
I’ve seen a bunch of possible offers thrown out there but  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 5:39 am : link
The one that feels most realistic for both sides would be:

Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard

Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox

I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.
For reference:  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 5:41 am : link
For Harden, Nets gave up:

Allen
LeVert
Prince
Kurucs
3 1st round picks
4 1st round pick swaps

And the Nets had all the leverage in that deal because Harden wanted out and specifically only wanted the Nets. I think we have to hope for a similar development with Lillard and NYK
Another thought I just had  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 6:22 am : link
Portland might push for RJ (and 3 or 4 first round picks) in which case we’d get to keep everyone else. In that case though maybe we could sign Derozan to “replace” RJ (Kawhi I know is a pipe dream but Derozan is realistic especially if we get Dame)....

Starters:
Dame
Bullock
Derozan
Randle
Mitch

2nd unit:
Rose
Quickley
Burks
Obi
Taj

I honestly think both units would be absolutely lethal offensively.

(Taj will come cheaper than Noel and I thought he gave us a way better chance in the Atlanta series— I loved his effort, his experience was clearly valuable as hell. Btw what do you guys think of giving Dwight Howard a 1 year deal? We need a guy who can rebound, has some bulk and athleticism and won’t let Capela make him his bitch— looking forward to seeing how they fare against each other in this series especially with Embiid being hurt.)
As of last  
Jon in NYC : 6/5/2021 8:19 am : link
night it certainly sounds like Dame is staying and going to help pick the new coach (likely Kidd or Billups)
Doubt  
Jon in NYC : 6/5/2021 8:34 am : link
this has much validity but the Knicks may have interest in Myles Turner.

Good player, but 18 mil per year scares me as does his injury history. My gut is that we could use our cap room more effectively.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: I’ve seen a bunch of possible offers thrown out there but  
Enzo : 6/5/2021 9:50 am : link
In comment 15280332 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
The one that feels most realistic for both sides would be:

Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard

Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox

Portland would hang up. No way you're getting an all-nba caliber player and only giving up one of the RJ/IQ/Obi group.

Also, Frank can't be traded - he's not under contract. Even if he could, he has minimal value. And Knox has negative value.
Steve Clifford out in Orlando.  
bceagle05 : 6/5/2021 2:24 pm : link
He’d be a great addition to the coaching staff. Very close with Thibs.
RE: I’ve seen a bunch of possible offers thrown out there but  
adamg : 6/5/2021 3:11 pm : link
In comment 15280332 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
The one that feels most realistic for both sides would be:

Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard

Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox

I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.


I'm with Enzo. I don't think that does it for Port. Frank is a RFA. Knox is trash.

If they ask for RJ/Obi/IQ/Mitch and 4 firsts, are you down?
RE: RE: I’ve seen a bunch of possible offers thrown out there but  
Jon in NYC : 6/5/2021 3:15 pm : link
In comment 15280507 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15280332 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


The one that feels most realistic for both sides would be:

Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard

Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox

I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.



I'm with Enzo. I don't think that does it for Port. Frank is a RFA. Knox is trash.

If they ask for RJ/Obi/IQ/Mitch and 4 firsts, are you down?


I mean that's literally everyone other than Julius. I think Obi is a must given that his long term fit next to Randle is in doubt. Beyond that, they can have either IQ and Mitch OR RJ.
Why wouldn't they want the farm?  
adamg : 6/5/2021 3:20 pm : link
Would you give up our assets to play with Randle/Dame and cap space?

It's better than we've been. But a lot less exciting to root for than building through the draft.

Ideally, you'd have a lineup like this:

Dame
Bullock
Kawhi
Randle
Noel

Rose as your sixth man

Is that a championship team?
RE: RE: I’ve seen a bunch of possible offers thrown out there but  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 3:22 pm : link
In comment 15280507 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15280332 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


The one that feels most realistic for both sides would be:

Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard

Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox

I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.



I'm with Enzo. I don't think that does it for Port. Frank is a RFA. Knox is trash.

If they ask for RJ/Obi/IQ/Mitch and 4 firsts, are you down?


for me it would be rj or IQ..

obi, mitch, 21 1st, 22 1st, 23 dallas 1st and 24 1st
RE: Why wouldn't they want the farm?  
Jon in NYC : 6/5/2021 3:27 pm : link
In comment 15280512 adamg said:
Quote:
Would you give up our assets to play with Randle/Dame and cap space?

It's better than we've been. But a lot less exciting to root for than building through the draft.

Ideally, you'd have a lineup like this:

Dame
Bullock
Kawhi
Randle
Noel

Rose as your sixth man

Is that a championship team?


They would want the farm, but I'm not sure if I'd give up the farm.

The market for Dame is probably not as robust as one would think. Are the Celtics going to give up Jaylen Brown? Are the Heat going to give up Jimmy or Bam?

If no, who is beating RJ, Obi and picks?
RJ and IQ are the two pieces they would want the most  
adamg : 6/5/2021 3:30 pm : link
Obi and Mitch would be the most expendable from the deal for POR.

So take off Obi or Mitch or both. You trading IQ/RJ and four firsts?
It’s a revelation watching these Western conference playoff games.  
Jim in Hoboken : 6/5/2021 3:32 pm : link
These players are hitting off-balance 3’s and creating in traffic, our players couldn’t hit 40% of their open 3’s and dribbled like they were in a phone booth.

We need better players, like a whole team of them. Rose is too old, Randle was exposed, RJ may never get there.

It’s unfortunate we missed so many draft picks but we need to keep accumulating. Trading half the roster and all your picks for a star in his prime who will soon to be on the decline aren’t the answer. Hit on your picks and grab more players on the ascent should be the way.
RE: RJ and IQ are the two pieces they would want the most  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 3:32 pm : link
In comment 15280518 adamg said:
Quote:
Obi and Mitch would be the most expendable from the deal for POR.

So take off Obi or Mitch or both. You trading IQ/RJ and four firsts?


If they insist on both rj and iq i try to only trade 3 1sts..

I think with a guy like Dame Rj because less valuable so inwould rather deal Rj than IQ
RE: RJ and IQ are the two pieces they would want the most  
Jon in NYC : 6/5/2021 3:34 pm : link
In comment 15280518 adamg said:
Quote:
Obi and Mitch would be the most expendable from the deal for POR.

So take off Obi or Mitch or both. You trading IQ/RJ and four firsts?


Yeah I'd do that. Love IQ but he's ultimately a bench guy. Losing RJ sucks but you have to give something of value if you're getting a top 10 player.
RE: It’s a revelation watching these Western conference playoff games.  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15280519 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
These players are hitting off-balance 3’s and creating in traffic, our players couldn’t hit 40% of their open 3’s and dribbled like they were in a phone booth.

We need better players, like a whole team of them. Rose is too old, Randle was exposed, RJ may never get there.

It’s unfortunate we missed so many draft picks but we need to keep accumulating. Trading half the roster and all your picks for a star in his prime who will soon to be on the decline aren’t the answer. Hit on your picks and grab more players on the ascent should be the way.


The Knicks were 4th in the NBA in 3 point field goal percentage..

Rj and Randle both shot over 40% from 3..

The western conference is a different style, they play ablot more wide open and a more finesse game
Why is IQ only a bench guy?  
widmerseyebrow : 6/5/2021 3:55 pm : link
Do you mean as of today or going forward? It seems like he has great upside given what he showed as a rookie. He can't be a good starter someday?
RE: Why is IQ only a bench guy?  
Jon in NYC : 6/5/2021 3:57 pm : link
In comment 15280529 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
Do you mean as of today or going forward? It seems like he has great upside given what he showed as a rookie. He can't be a good starter someday?


Both. He's 6'3, not an explosive athlete and not a distributor. I am very skeptical that he can be a starter at PG or SG in the league.

That's not to say he's a bad player, he's not. He'd be an awesome first guard off the bench. Think Lou Williams, Jordan Clarkson, etc.
RE: Why is IQ only a bench guy?  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 4:02 pm : link
In comment 15280529 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
Do you mean as of today or going forward? It seems like he has great upside given what he showed as a rookie. He can't be a good starter someday?


Saying he is a bench guy is not saying he wont be valuable, he can change games with his shot BUT..

he is not a good enough distributor to be a starting point and i think he is to small to br a 2 guard..

I think he will be valuable just not a starter
Leg of Theisman  
Jon in NYC : 6/5/2021 4:15 pm : link
posted it earlier, but if they do get Dame, and we end up moving RJ, assuming no Kawhi, I'd 100% make a move for Derozan. A Lillard/Derozan/Randle top 3 is probably the second best trio in the league. Three guys that are hungry for a title and compliment each other's skills well. You probably also have enough money to bring on someone like Norm Powell as well, or bring back Burks and Bullock and Rose.
RE: Leg of Theisman  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 4:19 pm : link
In comment 15280537 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
posted it earlier, but if they do get Dame, and we end up moving RJ, assuming no Kawhi, I'd 100% make a move for Derozan. A Lillard/Derozan/Randle top 3 is probably the second best trio in the league. Three guys that are hungry for a title and compliment each other's skills well. You probably also have enough money to bring on someone like Norm Powell as well, or bring back Burks and Bullock and Rose.


Yeah you go with thay Trio, yiu most like have 30 million to fill out the rest of the roster and still have a pretty deep team
I do have a feeling Derozan will be a knick  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 4:19 pm : link
with a new starting point
16  
manh george : 6/5/2021 6:10 pm : link
There is talk around about the Knicks looking at Kendrick Nunn for pg. He would probably match up well with Derozan without costing the entire bank. He would cost though, as a rfa coming out of a good season.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I’ve seen a bunch of possible offers thrown out there but  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 6:32 pm : link
In comment 15280507 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15280332 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


The one that feels most realistic for both sides would be:

Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard

Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox

I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.



I'm with Enzo. I don't think that does it for Port. Frank is a RFA. Knox is trash.

If they ask for RJ/Obi/IQ/Mitch and 4 firsts, are you down?


My bad I don’t know why I thought we could trade an RFA.

Knox is indeed trash but think of him as the Kurucs in the Harden deal. Kurucs was the 4th best player given up and is probably even w/ Knox in terms of current ability, and if anything I think Knox being a recent 9th overall pick he technically has more of a potential upside (not that i think he’s going to ever fulfill that upside but I’m just saying some might argue he still has a little upside— it’s not meant to be much value I mean he’s the lowest value piece in my hypothetical trade but it’s almost like the equivalent of a 2nd round pick I guess).

The main pieces of value in the above are the 4 FRPs + Mitch + IQ.

I think the only way this trade would work is if there was something similar to the Harden situation where Dame publicly said he wanted out and he wanted to go to NY. I don’t want to get into a bidding war w/ other teams and give away everybody but I would love to do a deal IF Dame all of a sudden specifically wants to come be the savior of NY Basketball (funny I will never consider the Nets to count as “NY Basketball” lol).
No  
Jon in NYC : 6/5/2021 6:35 pm : link
interest in Nunn. He's not a distributor, he's 26 despite only two years in the league. Has an iffy personal past. For a similar amount of money I'd much rather have Lonzo.
We also have to remember  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 7:01 pm : link
Dame has, what— 4 years $180M left. That’s a huge number and definitely factors into any deal. In these deals I think we have to consider the cap number. $45M /yr is a lot different than $35M for Instance. And I’m not walking back the value for Dame I’ve previously stated in this thread, I’m saying this because so many seem to be saying “Blazers would never do that, we’d have to give up literally everybody but Randle.” I just don’t think that’s necessarily the case.

But it’s really just gonna come down to what Dame wants. The Blazers don’t want to part ways, so in that case we’d have to throw a lot at them to pull Dame away from them. But if Dame starts listening to everyone saying “get out while you can, you’ll never win a championship in Portland, no one wants to go there” and suddenly he wants out, then we have some leverage (as do other teams— but again, Dame’s massive cap number is factored into the ultimate trade value, which no doubt will still be a blockbuster value regardless just not necessarily a completely “future-mortgaging” price so to speak).
Nunn is the type of guy you sign  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 7:07 pm : link
when you already have your number 1, Knicks dont..

Knicks at the very least need to upgrade their PG and SG position..

Preferrably with a star, but i think the star comes via trade and Rj goes out
RE: Nunn is the type of guy you sign  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15280592 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
when you already have your number 1, Knicks dont..

Knicks at the very least need to upgrade their PG and SG position..

Preferrably with a star, but i think the star comes via trade and Rj goes out


16– I’m intrigued by the fact you’re sounding more and more like you’re looking to trade RJ (as opposed to reluctantly giving him up). Sounds like you’re almost saying you don’t think his style of play and/or his attributes are conducive to winning a title (if I’m reading between the lines correctly which I may not be). Can you expand on that little more? I think the common thought would be “he’s 20, he’s a 3rd overall pick, seems to have a really high ceiling.” But it’s sounding like you’re saying if we’re committing to Randle we should move RJ because he doesn’t fit well, and upgrade our PG/SG to a more conducive fit for Randle. Just curious what your thoughts are.
RE: RE: Nunn is the type of guy you sign  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 7:32 pm : link
In comment 15280598 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 15280592 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


when you already have your number 1, Knicks dont..

Knicks at the very least need to upgrade their PG and SG position..

Preferrably with a star, but i think the star comes via trade and Rj goes out



16– I’m intrigued by the fact you’re sounding more and more like you’re looking to trade RJ (as opposed to reluctantly giving him up). Sounds like you’re almost saying you don’t think his style of play and/or his attributes are conducive to winning a title (if I’m reading between the lines correctly which I may not be). Can you expand on that little more? I think the common thought would be “he’s 20, he’s a 3rd overall pick, seems to have a really high ceiling.” But it’s sounding like you’re saying if we’re committing to Randle we should move RJ because he doesn’t fit well, and upgrade our PG/SG to a more conducive fit for Randle. Just curious what your thoughts are.


I havnt been fully on Rj from the beginning, He can have games where he can carry the offense but a lot of nights he is so off and yes he is only 20 and he improved his 3pt shot..

BUT i dont think he fits very well with a star player, he needs the ball in his hands and it takes him a little bit to get into a rhythm, if he doesnt get his touches he is basically useless..

I would like to keep Rj, but if i have a chance to get a star i wont think twice, i just dont think he is a great fit as a 3rd piece because he needs the ball to be effective and when your not one of the first 2 options hard for you to be effective..

Rose and Randle were the first 2 options  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 7:33 pm : link
in the playoffs and Rj became useless, he just wasnt effective
How do you see Randle  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 7:49 pm : link
Fitting as a #2 or #3 option? The thoughts your expressing about RJ are somewhat similar to thoughts i’ve had about Randle. He’s clearly not a possibility as a #1 option on a contender, but this ball-stopping ISO hero ball shit we saw in the playoffs would be horrible if we have 1 or 2 guys who are better options than him. I mean it’s horrible to begin with, but even worse if he’s not working well with another star or 2 and simply “taking his turn” on certain possessions. I mean it’s especially bad because he’s not a mid range assassin like Kobe or like we’ve seen Kawhi at times , yet he seems to try to play like he is oftentimes. Watching him in the playoffs was like Melo-lite— it was probably the least effective offensive approach ive seen in the playoffs from any one player so far this year.
And by Melo-lite  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 7:53 pm : link
I’m not even bashing Melo (okay maybe just a little bit). Melo was 10x the offensive talent that Randle is, and don’t get me wrong Randle did tremendous things to improve his shot this year and that’s why he put up numbers like he did, but in the playoffs when push came to shove his shot was not nearly good enough to make up for the fact he simply does not have the talent to create shots out of nothing that the GOATs have.
RE: How do you see Randle  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15280612 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
Fitting as a #2 or #3 option? The thoughts your expressing about RJ are somewhat similar to thoughts i’ve had about Randle. He’s clearly not a possibility as a #1 option on a contender, but this ball-stopping ISO hero ball shit we saw in the playoffs would be horrible if we have 1 or 2 guys who are better options than him. I mean it’s horrible to begin with, but even worse if he’s not working well with another star or 2 and simply “taking his turn” on certain possessions. I mean it’s especially bad because he’s not a mid range assassin like Kobe or like we’ve seen Kawhi at times , yet he seems to try to play like he is oftentimes. Watching him in the playoffs was like Melo-lite— it was probably the least effective offensive approach ive seen in the playoffs from any one player so far this year.


I think Randle will be fine off the ball and there will be times in games he can be ball dominant and the other guy is off the ball..

You cant have 3 of those guys..

Randle is so ball dominant because the team has no point guard, during the season he did let Rose run the offense and played off the ball..

I think he will be fine with another guy because he can shoot the 3, he can run the offense, he shoot the midrange, he can post up, he can face up, he can create for others..

Rj can shoot the 3 and drive to the hoop, he can dish when he wants to, he has no midrange game whatsoever..
RE: And by Melo-lite  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 7:56 pm : link
In comment 15280616 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
I’m not even bashing Melo (okay maybe just a little bit). Melo was 10x the offensive talent that Randle is, and don’t get me wrong Randle did tremendous things to improve his shot this year and that’s why he put up numbers like he did, but in the playoffs when push came to shove his shot was not nearly good enough to make up for the fact he simply does not have the talent to create shots out of nothing that the GOATs have.


The problem for Randle in the offense, he had to do everything, he had to create everything, that is why point guard is their biggest need..

Everything was so hard, same shit happened to Melo here
I am also admittedly  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 8:09 pm : link
nkt a big fan of Rjs game
RE: RE: Why is IQ only a bench guy?  
Stu11 : 6/5/2021 8:29 pm : link
In comment 15280534 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15280529 widmerseyebrow said:


Quote:


Do you mean as of today or going forward? It seems like he has great upside given what he showed as a rookie. He can't be a good starter someday?



Saying he is a bench guy is not saying he wont be valuable, he can change games with his shot BUT..

he is not a good enough distributor to be a starting point and i think he is to small to br a 2 guard..

I think he will be valuable just not a starter

Said it about a month back I see UQ's ceiling as a Vinnie the microwave Johnson type guy. Instant offense off the bench who can play as much as 25-30 minutes on a given night depending how hot he is.
I'm also on the sell high on RJ train  
widmerseyebrow : 6/5/2021 8:33 pm : link
if the opportunity presents itself for all the reasons above. If he stays, great. He's a hard worker and will continue to work on his game, but he should not hold up a potential blockbuster.
Lillard has told Portland he wants Kidd  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 8:35 pm : link
so if they dont hire Jason Kidd all hell will break loosr, if they do, he is staying
Nets rolling in game 1  
nygiants16 : 6/5/2021 9:43 pm : link
Middleton of course comes up small, as soon as the competition raises in the playoffs Middleton plays terribly..
Lame effort by the Bucks.  
bceagle05 : 6/5/2021 9:53 pm : link
Harden leaves early with a hammy and they get smoked anyway.
RE: Lame effort by the Bucks.  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 10:55 pm : link
In comment 15280669 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Harden leaves early with a hammy and they get smoked anyway.


Damn. That game was something else. I picked the Nets to win and thought the amount of “Bucks will beat the Nets” talk was ridiculous. But I did not expect that with Harden out 43 seconds into the game the Nets would roll like that. Super impressive showing by everyone on that team. For the amount that the Knicks were calling themselves the “big 15” in sort of tongue in cheek fashion, the Nets really are a deep team that plays together and plays hard.

My thought on the Nets/Bucks series was more talent will always win out in the playoffs, save for a few factors like: 1) injuries , 2) a wide gap in playoff experience, or 3) the more skilled team choking in the big moment or the less skilled team rising to the occasion. Nets big 3 certainly has certainly played deep into the playoffs before and/or won championships and they’ve all made clutch shots at various points in their careers, so the one thing that could stop them is injuries. But then Harden goes out and the whole team rises to the occasion and takes care of business. The non-big-3 for Brooklyn was way better than the non-big-3 for the Bucks, and by a wide margin— I wouldn’t have expected that.

A bit odd that the Bucks didn’t challenge the Nets in the paint more, but honestly Giannis didn’t have as easy of a time as I expected driving to the basket.
The one thing  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 11:00 pm : link
I think people missed in looking at this series based on the regular season games was this: yeah the Nets couldn’t stop the Giannis in the regular season, but honestly who wants to try to stop Giannis in a regular season game? The size and length coming down hill at you and you wanna step in front of that in a regular season game? But now that the playoffs start of course the Nets are gonna step up and try to stop Giannis with everything they physically can muster. And the things is Durant and Blake are not known as incredible defensive forces, but both of them can defend well when they want to /need to and IMO they actually match up better with Giannis than most guys do simply because they’re also physically unicorns (even Blake still is in his old age) and hence I think are physically capable of keeping up with Giannis’s size and speed. Giannis is not gonna have easy 40 point games in this series like he had in the regular season against the Nets.
RE: RE: And by Melo-lite  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 11:06 pm : link
In comment 15280620 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15280616 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


I’m not even bashing Melo (okay maybe just a little bit). Melo was 10x the offensive talent that Randle is, and don’t get me wrong Randle did tremendous things to improve his shot this year and that’s why he put up numbers like he did, but in the playoffs when push came to shove his shot was not nearly good enough to make up for the fact he simply does not have the talent to create shots out of nothing that the GOATs have.



The problem for Randle in the offense, he had to do everything, he had to create everything, that is why point guard is their biggest need..

Everything was so hard, same shit happened to Melo here


All good points you’ve made.

Dame to me fills so many of our main needs in one guy: 1) a true PG. 2) an elite scorer to take pressure off of Randle and RJ. 3) a superstar whose presence alone attracts other stars and role players to want to come here. I think we should start thinking of what we’d be willing to give up to fulfill all of those needs in one guy.

Then again it does sound more and more like Dame is willing to work it out with Portland. And he doesn’t seem like the type of guy to change his mind every 2 weeks.
I do kind of feel though  
Leg of Theismann : 6/5/2021 11:13 pm : link
That if the Nets roll through the playoffs and win the title, these other superstars are gonna have to be thinking in terms of “how are we gonna NOT get shut of winning titles for the next 5 years?” Like honestly Dame has only a few years left in his real prime. There is no way he’s building a team in freaking Portland that is going to be able to compete for title. He’s gonna need to team up with one of THE guys and Kawhi seems like the perfect fit for him (regardless of whether that’s here in NY or somewhere else I just think those 2 guys together with a solid team and other legit weapon(s) around them poses a massive problem for the rest of the NBA).
I’m surprised  
Leg of Theismann : 6/6/2021 3:14 am : link
I don’t see more people talking about Lowry to the Knicks. Obviously way more realistic than Dame, but I know it’s not as exciting of a name. I believe I heard he’s only looking for 2 years 50 mill which honestly isn’t that bad and I think it’s a perfect length of time. I say go Lowry and Rose at PG the next 2 years while we either develop a young PG who we draft or wait for a young star PG to sign. I don’t understand why so many are talking about Ball or Nunn or Shroder. I just don’t see Ball being a championship caliber PG at all, especially because he’s gonna cost like $25M /yr (I think SOME team is gonna offer him that even if he’s only truly worth 15-20M) and we’d have to lock him up for a longer period of time... and be stuck with Ball as the guy we hope to win a title with at PG? Pass. Same goes for Shroder I don’t feel he makes his teammates better. And I just feel disappointment is written all over Ball.

I don’t see any FA PG I want this year so Lowry and Rose bridges us the next 2 years while we find the PG of the future we really like. Both are playoff-winning and Championship caliber PGs. In the playoffs I want those 2 dudes facilitating our offense and calming everyone down while Randle is wildly jumping with no plan and throwing the ball away and throwing his hands in air afterward. Rose can’t be that guy for 38 min 82 games + playoffs.

If we can’t get Kawhi i like the idea of signing Derozan and then somehow acquiring Beal or LaVine by trading RJ and Mitch and picks. Beal and LaVine are both sure bets and guaranteed to be money well spent for years to come. I prefer LaVine but either one would be ill.

If we trade Mitch I’d also try to get Howard on a one year deal too simply for his rebounding. He and Boban appear to be the best rebounders of the centers on the FA list. Seems like he’d want to come once we’re clearly a championship contender.

Lowry
LaVine
Kawhi/Derozan
Randle
Howard

Rose
Vildoza
IQ
Bullock
Burks
Obi
Taj
Another vet
#21 pick
#32 pick

(This is assuming one of the picks we trade for LaVine is the #19 pick).

I’d like to keep IQ and Obi if possible. Mitch I think can be dealt while he still has decent value simply because the best ability is availability and already can see he’s never gonna have that for a full season— you do need to play a full season to win a championship.

Duncan Robinson wouldn’t hurt to take a look at as well if we could hope to still afford him after all these moves. Great shooter and has great playoff experience. Let’s bring in guys who have been there done that in the playoffs. We now know how important that is after this series vs the Hawks.

I think the general plan wrt to the starters is along the lines of what Jon in NYC has already mentioned a couple times... Championship.
Wow I didn’t realize LaVine  
Leg of Theismann : 6/6/2021 3:35 am : link
Is almost a full 2 years younger than Beal. I guess in terms of ability most people would say Beal is slightly better right now overall but I just prefer LaVine’s game for some reason and I think he’ll be better than Beal 2 years from now. Smoother game, more efficient than Beal, a more complete 3-level scorer, and he’s underrated as a defender and gotten better defensively every year — i’d even say is better than Beal at this point in that category.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/6/2021 11:17 am : link
Rooting hard for the Mavs this afternoon, Zinger & all. I just hate the Clips.

I have no feel for Hawks 76ers. If Embiid was 100%, I'd go Philly in 5, but he's a complete wildcard.
Knicks going forward  
Mike in NJ : 6/6/2021 11:54 am : link
I love the Knicks future going forward. This was by far my favorite team dating back to the Sprewell/Houston days, and there is a great foundation to build from here to keep this team competitive for years to come. They have a ton of assets, and it will be very interesting to watch how Rose and company navigate to continue building upon this season.

I am most intrigued by how they approach the Randle situation. Randle had an amazing year, this team would not have sniffed the playoffs if he hadn't made the leap that he did this year. Going into the postseason, and after watching the first couple of games in the series, I had thought what this team needed was a Lonzo Ball type of PG. More of an off the ball, defense first type that can hit the open shot and get guys the ball in their spots when Randle isn't playing the primary ball handler role. After watching the series, I think they really need a true lead guard. Randle just can't be your primary ball handler when the games get more intense, and they can't move forward placing all of that responsibility on him. It's weird because RJ Barrett should be able to alleviate some of those responsibilities, but Randle always seems very reluctant to relinquish that role to him. As has been mentioned, RJ and Randle are not a great fit together. I have thought all year long that Barrett looked his best when he was on the floor without Julius. His strengths are minimized when he is relegated to just standing in the corner waiting to take a 3, he did an excellent job in that role during the season, but there is more to his game than that.

Still, I think the smart move is to offer Randle the max. He is too good of an asset to not at least make the offer rather than letting him play out next season and potentially lose him for nothing after that as a free agent. You have to lock him up to at least retain control of the asset whether the plan is to continue to build around him, or to package him in a deal for a bigger star. The most they can offer him this summer is 4 years $106 million, which is a steal if he continues to play like he did this season, and still a reasonable contract if they see some regression. Does Randle take that deal though? If he waits the additional year then his max contract goes up significantly to $35 mil per year. He can gamble on himself and make a heck of a lot more money.

All that said, and I know it isn't going to be a popular opinion, I would not be opposed to seeing Randle moved in a deal for a star. If Bradley Beal or Dame Lillard or some other star becomes available, I am completely fine with them including Randle in a trade. A package for a player of that caliber would have to include Randle or Barrett. I can't see anyway the conversation starts with anyone on the roster other than those two. That being the case, I'm trading Randle for a few reasons:

1. Randle's trade value is probably higher, so you don't have to completely empty the war chest to get a deal done. Randle, Knox, and a draft pick or 2 probably gets it done. With Barrett I think you are looking more at a trade similar to what the Nets gave up for Harden. Barrett, Robinson (or Toppin), Knox, and 4 draft picks type of deal.

2. I really liked what I saw out of Obi Toppin in the postseason. I know it was a small sample size, but we also saw signs of his improvement over the last 6 weeks or so of the season. I think there is a good player there, and unfortunately there will just never be enough minutes available behind Randle.

3. And this is the biggest one for me, I think Barrett will be a better fit than Randle as the second or (more likely) third fiddle on a team going forward. Randle was at his best this year because he was given the keys to the offense. Randle needs the ball in his hands to be effective. His style of play was frustrating to watch last season, and it was frustrating to watch in the postseason, and I don't know if a star player is going to want to come here to watch Julius Randle pound the ball for 18 seconds per possession.

There are a lot of different ways this team can go in the future, but I am fully confident in the front office (how crazy to say that about the Knicks!?) to make the right decisions going forward.
Kidd (reportedly Dame’s top choice)  
bceagle05 : 6/6/2021 12:18 pm : link
is not pursuing the Portland job. C’mon, Dame - it’s time!
RE: Kidd (reportedly Dame’s top choice)  
Jon in NYC : 6/6/2021 1:46 pm : link
In comment 15280900 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
is not pursuing the Portland job. C’mon, Dame - it’s time!


Yeah that was my first thought as well.

If Kidd won't even accept a promotion to go there...
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/6/2021 1:47 pm : link
Hawks just smoking the 76ers.
Portland area got aligned against Kidd over his previous  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/6/2021 1:53 pm : link
domestic violence issues/accusations.


The Hawks working over Philly early doesn’t make me feel any better. Hawks with 57 points HALFWAY through the second quarter.
Thing with the Hawks is that they had a shit coach half the season  
Stu11 : 6/6/2021 3:12 pm : link
And had all kinds of injuries. Now they're the healthiest they've been all year, have good coach and are near impossible to defend. At any time they have 4 shooters on the floor, Capella defending the rim and grabbing every rebound. They'll be a tough out. Not that it makes us feel a whole lot better, but it does give us perspective.
Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
Giantfan21 : 6/6/2021 3:17 pm : link
to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
RE: Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
MookGiants : 6/6/2021 3:21 pm : link
In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything


You were saying?
RE: Thing with the Hawks is that they had a shit coach half the season  
Ira : 6/6/2021 3:22 pm : link
In comment 15280972 Stu11 said:
Quote:
And had all kinds of injuries. Now they're the healthiest they've been all year, have good coach and are near impossible to defend. At any time they have 4 shooters on the floor, Capella defending the rim and grabbing every rebound. They'll be a tough out. Not that it makes us feel a whole lot better, but it does give us perspective.


Good point. Atlanta's a very good, well coached team.
RE: RE: Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
Giantfan21 : 6/6/2021 3:28 pm : link
In comment 15280976 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything



You were saying?


He had 25 points in the 1st half while carving up the Sixers

2nd half he has 10 points and 3 turnovers and the adjustment has allowed Philly to come back and make this a game . That is what i was saying.

Amazing how people can't open their eyes and admit Thibs was terrible in the series

RE: Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
Stu11 : 6/6/2021 3:29 pm : link
In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything

Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.
RE: RE: Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/6/2021 3:33 pm : link
In comment 15280980 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything


Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.


He didn’t say fire Thibs. He said Thibs didn’t make any adjustments, which is pretty incontrovertible.

Hawks close to choking this one away until Bogdanovic drains a three.
RE: RE: Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
Giantfan21 : 6/6/2021 3:35 pm : link
In comment 15280980 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything


Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.


Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.

Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else
RE: RE: RE: Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
MookGiants : 6/6/2021 3:37 pm : link
In comment 15280985 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
In comment 15280980 Stu11 said:


Quote:


In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything


Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.



Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.

Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else


How about game 1 last series when the Knicks came back down at half to make it a game? Or the 2nd half of game 2 where they went from down 13 to winning by what, 9? Outscored them by 22.

Do you have amnesia?
RE: RE: RE: Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
Giantfan21 : 6/6/2021 3:38 pm : link
In comment 15280983 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15280980 Stu11 said:


Quote:


In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything


Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.



He didn’t say fire Thibs. He said Thibs didn’t make any adjustments, which is pretty incontrovertible.

Hawks close to choking this one away until Bogdanovic drains a three.


Lol these guys just can't accept any criticism towards Thibs. I never said anywhere Thibs should be fired i said he had a terrible series and Doc is already proving it in 1
game . This guy can't handle it though and is just going to talk about the regular season
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/6/2021 3:39 pm : link
Wild ending here.
Hawks had 35 points  
MookGiants : 6/6/2021 3:39 pm : link
total in the 2nd half of game 2, but yeah Thibs didn't make any adjustments all series and they were never able to do what the sixers did today in the 2nd half.

Unreal.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
Giantfan21 : 6/6/2021 3:40 pm : link
In comment 15280987 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 15280985 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


In comment 15280980 Stu11 said:


Quote:


In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything


Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.



Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.

Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else



How about game 1 last series when the Knicks came back down at half to make it a game? Or the 2nd half of game 2 where they went from down 13 to winning by what, 9? Outscored them by 22.

Do you have amnesia?


Do you ? That was due to Getting Payton out of the game , Bumping Rose to 40 minutes a game and Atlanta getting ice cold from 3. It had nothing to do with any changes Thibs made defensively to guarding Trae which is my whole point here
RE: Hawks had 35 points  
Enzo : 6/6/2021 3:42 pm : link
In comment 15280992 MookGiants said:
Quote:
total in the 2nd half of game 2, but yeah Thibs didn't make any adjustments all series and they were never able to do what the sixers did today in the 2nd half.

Unreal.

Yes - it was Thibs' coaching genius that caused Atlanta to brick a bunch of open threes.
RE: Hawks had 35 points  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/6/2021 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15280992 MookGiants said:
Quote:
total in the 2nd half of game 2, but yeah Thibs didn't make any adjustments all series and they were never able to do what the sixers did today in the 2nd half.

Unreal.


Name the adjustment. If we’re wrong, please correct us. I’m not trying to be a dick. I’m legitimately asking what you thought Thibs did differently in game 2? There are people who thought the Knicks were lucky to win that game because the Hawks missed a bunch of open threes.
Young had...  
MookGiants : 6/6/2021 3:43 pm : link
wait for it.... wait for it....

10 points in the 2nd half of game 2.

But hey, let's praise Doc for making the adjustments on Young and holding him down in the 2nd half of a game they didn't lead in at any point in the 2nd half but act like game 2 of the previous series never happened.

RE: RE: Hawks had 35 points  
Giantfan21 : 6/6/2021 3:45 pm : link
In comment 15280994 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 15280992 MookGiants said:


Quote:


total in the 2nd half of game 2, but yeah Thibs didn't make any adjustments all series and they were never able to do what the sixers did today in the 2nd half.

Unreal.


Yes - it was Thibs' coaching genius that caused Atlanta to brick a bunch of open threes.


Thank you. I feel like im taking crazy pills with some of these people trying to defend Thibs doing absolutely nothing in 5 games to try to slow down Trae. Doc Rivers did more in 1 game then Thibs did in 5 and they almost came back from 25 points because of it
RE: RE: RE: Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
Stu11 : 6/6/2021 3:46 pm : link
In comment 15280985 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
In comment 15280980 Stu11 said:


Quote:


In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything


Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.



Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.

Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else

Oh give me a break. The lead was 14-18 till the last few minutes when Atlanta went to sleep and Philly putva miracle run on. Philly has a dpoy candidate in Simmons. Thibs got the Knicks to play spectacular team defense all year with literally no very good individual defenders. We have nowhere near the length of Philly. We have no one. NO ONE on the roster that can defend Trae and stop the drives. They have 4 shooters on the court at all times. Doubling him with no length would have done nothing but leave wide open shooters. Yeah the defensive genious Doc did hold Atlanta to 128. I'll give you that.
Why do we act like the Hawks lit it up?  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 3:51 pm : link
they scored 107, 93, 105, 113 and 103..

It wasnt defensively that was the isaue, offensively they were a trainwreck
RE: RE: RE: RE: Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
Giantfan21 : 6/6/2021 3:53 pm : link
In comment 15280998 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 15280985 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


In comment 15280980 Stu11 said:


Quote:


In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything


Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.



Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.

Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else


Oh give me a break. The lead was 14-18 till the last few minutes when Atlanta went to sleep and Philly putva miracle run on. Philly has a dpoy candidate in Simmons. Thibs got the Knicks to play spectacular team defense all year with literally no very good individual defenders. We have nowhere near the length of Philly. We have no one. NO ONE on the roster that can defend Trae and stop the drives. They have 4 shooters on the court at all times. Doubling him with no length would have done nothing but leave wide open shooters. Yeah the defensive genious Doc did hold Atlanta to 128. I'll give you that.


All you are doing is making excuses for Thibs not doing a thing. Why even have a coach then if he is not going to try something else when things are clearly not working ? Might as well just have a clipboard coaching the 1st round according to you .

Anyway, to not even try Frank other then bringing him ice cold off the bench for 20 seconds on Trae is ridicolous . Maybe it wouldn't have made a difference but maybe it would have. What did it hurt to try ? As far as trapping Young, it forced him to have 4 Turnovers in the 2nd half and took them out of their rhythm the whole 2nd half.

At least Doc tried something and they almost came back and won. Thibs just stuck with his same rotation and same defensive principles which is why the last 3 games were never close
Knicks are the slowest paced team in the league.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/6/2021 3:58 pm : link
Point totals isn’t the most accurate way of showing what their defense did or didn’t do.

Literally every Knicks fan knows Thibs did a Coach of the Year worthy job with this roster and organization this season. It doesn’t take way from that job to acknowledge that he really didn’t try anything different (beyond benching Payton) when it was clear what they were doing wasn’t working. Maybe Atlanta was just too talented and no amount of adjustments would’ve changed the outcome. But Thibs didn’t appear to really try anything different at all.
There are things about Thibs that I do not love...  
manh george : 6/6/2021 4:23 pm : link
one of which was the way he over-used Randall and Rose prior to the playoff series, but in the Atlanta series, he was pretty much stuck. Randall seemed worn out after topping the league in minutes. Rose was definitely worn out, after playing more mpg than his legs were supposed to be able to handle. Noel was playing on a very sore ankle, just when his defense was most needed.

It was also pretty clear that Barrett and Quickly, a 20-year-old and a rookie, took a step backward when the pressure was turned up one more notch in the series, and Barrett wasn't getting nearly as many open catch-and-shoot opportunities with Randle apparently in exhaustion mode. And finally, with Rose starting, the second unit lost important scoring kick. One could also make a case that the pressure got to Burks, possibly because his timing wasn't optimal after missing so many games late in the season.

Bottom line: Imo, Thibs made some mistakes in PT and the rotation the last month of the season, but there really wasn't a whole heck of a lot he could do strategically or tactically in the playoff games themselves.

For those who disagree, what, exactly, should he have done better?
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/6/2021 4:39 pm : link
Luka is insane.
RE: ...  
Jon in NYC : 6/6/2021 5:15 pm : link
In comment 15281025 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Luka is insane.


Luka is as good as Porzingis is bad.

I mean wow, what a complete nonfactor he has become. Boban is more impactful on both ends than KP.
Porzingis is doing less than Luke Kennard.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/6/2021 5:34 pm : link
Hate to see it……..
RE: RE: RE: Took 1 half for Doc Rivers to adjust  
dpinzow : 6/6/2021 6:04 pm : link
In comment 15280985 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
In comment 15280980 Stu11 said:


Quote:


In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.

Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything


Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.



Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.

Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else


Doc has a much better team than Thibs. The Knicks don't have an Embiid
Always happy to see KP lose  
Giantfan21 : 6/6/2021 6:14 pm : link
but i was kind of hoping Kawhi would lose to keep the Kawhi to the Knicks Fantasy alive
Randle wasnt tired  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 6:24 pm : link
he just didnt have a good series, it happens when you have to create evwrything yourself and have no one to help..

...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/6/2021 6:30 pm : link
Zinger is a total fraud. I bet Mavs look to move him this summer. Apparently he & Luka aren't exactly best friends. And Cuban confirmed as much.
RE: ...  
Jon in NYC : 6/6/2021 6:33 pm : link
In comment 15281081 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Zinger is a total fraud. I bet Mavs look to move him this summer. Apparently he & Luka aren't exactly best friends. And Cuban confirmed as much.


Who would trade for him? Certainly won't get any value back.
RE: ...  
Giantfan21 : 6/6/2021 6:37 pm : link
In comment 15281081 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Zinger is a total fraud. I bet Mavs look to move him this summer. Apparently he & Luka aren't exactly best friends. And Cuban confirmed as much.


Who would trade him for at this point ?

He is constantly missing games due to injuries/resting his knees. He is clearly regressing. He is showing he is not a number 2 at all and has a huge contract. Mavs are stuck with his bumass
There will be a team willing to trade for him  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 6:38 pm : link
a team over the cap looking for a shake up
Kemba for Zinger.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/6/2021 6:42 pm : link
Who says no? Haha.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/6/2021 6:44 pm : link
I watched a ton of Clips Mavs. Zinger was a complete zero. He is a shell of his former self. Mavs are delusional if they think he is legit 2 on championship team.

If I am Luka...get me legit supporting cast.
RE: ...  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 6:56 pm : link
In comment 15281088 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I watched a ton of Clips Mavs. Zinger was a complete zero. He is a shell of his former self. Mavs are delusional if they think he is legit 2 on championship team.

If I am Luka...get me legit supporting cast.


compeltely capped out and will have to pay hardaway and beunson
RE: RE: ...  
adamg : 6/6/2021 6:58 pm : link
In comment 15281093 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15281088 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


I watched a ton of Clips Mavs. Zinger was a complete zero. He is a shell of his former self. Mavs are delusional if they think he is legit 2 on championship team.

If I am Luka...get me legit supporting cast.



compeltely capped out and will have to pay hardaway and beunson


Brunson is a UFA after next year.
How much do you think Hardaway is going to get?  
adamg : 6/6/2021 7:01 pm : link
20-25 mill per? He's averaging .505/.394/.817 the last two seasons.
thanks for all the commentary guys -  
Del Shofner : 6/6/2021 7:07 pm : link
missed today's games and I get the feel for them better from reading this thread than from reading ESPN or whatever...
RE: RE: RE: ...  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 7:09 pm : link
In comment 15281094 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15281093 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15281088 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


I watched a ton of Clips Mavs. Zinger was a complete zero. He is a shell of his former self. Mavs are delusional if they think he is legit 2 on championship team.

If I am Luka...get me legit supporting cast.



compeltely capped out and will have to pay hardaway and beunson



Brunson is a UFA after next year.


Isnt it if they decline his option he is restricted if they dont he is ubrestricted next year?
I laughed at the insinuation that RJ's game  
Jan in DC : 6/6/2021 7:30 pm : link
can only work with the ball in his hands.

He spent all season without the ball in his hands and averaged 18 a night. When he played with the starters, Randle had it, when he played with the bench Rose and Quickley had it.

And he made a huge leap this season from last. No reason to think he doesn't apply himself again this offseason. I think that it'd be a mistake to trade him. I definitely don't think you'd be "trading high" on him if you dealt him this offseason.
RE: I laughed at the insinuation that RJ's game  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 7:42 pm : link
In comment 15281103 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
can only work with the ball in his hands.

He spent all season without the ball in his hands and averaged 18 a night. When he played with the starters, Randle had it, when he played with the bench Rose and Quickley had it.

And he made a huge leap this season from last. No reason to think he doesn't apply himself again this offseason. I think that it'd be a mistake to trade him. I definitely don't think you'd be "trading high" on him if you dealt him this offseason.


He is absokutely better with the ball in his hands and if you add another star he becomes the 3rd guy..

and nobody is trading him for a bag of balls, he is being traded for a suoerstsr player..

...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/6/2021 7:53 pm : link
I think we learned this postseason that JR is not a 1 on a legit championship contender. Hell, I don't even if he know he is a 2. RJ I expect to improve but I don't know his ceiling.
Say they traded for Lillard  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 7:55 pm : link
and kept Rj, You think Rj is going to be effective standing at the 3 point line waiting for the ball? he is going to be effective as the weakside shooter?

or would you rather have the 3rd guy be a 3 and d wing who is a pure shooter?
I would rather have RJ  
PwndPapi : 6/6/2021 8:01 pm : link
The kid is 20 and brought his 3-pt shooting up to 40% in his second year. If he improves his FT shooting, mid-game and finishing around the rim, he's 22/7/5 at the 3. I'd take that all day.
RE: Say they traded for Lillard  
Mike in NJ : 6/6/2021 8:19 pm : link
In comment 15281116 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and kept Rj, You think Rj is going to be effective standing at the 3 point line waiting for the ball? he is going to be effective as the weakside shooter?

or would you rather have the 3rd guy be a 3 and d wing who is a pure shooter?


How is that any different than his role this year? We just watched a full season of him playing effectively in that role. Is it the ideal use of him? No, but he just finished year 2. Let’s see how he continues to develop.
RE: RE: Say they traded for Lillard  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 8:22 pm : link
In comment 15281125 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15281116 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and kept Rj, You think Rj is going to be effective standing at the 3 point line waiting for the ball? he is going to be effective as the weakside shooter?

or would you rather have the 3rd guy be a 3 and d wing who is a pure shooter?



How is that any different than his role this year? We just watched a full season of him playing effectively in that role. Is it the ideal use of him? No, but he just finished year 2. Let’s see how he continues to develop.


he was the number 2 guy this year
RE: RE: RE: Say they traded for Lillard  
Mike in NJ : 6/6/2021 8:34 pm : link
In comment 15281126 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15281125 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


In comment 15281116 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and kept Rj, You think Rj is going to be effective standing at the 3 point line waiting for the ball? he is going to be effective as the weakside shooter?

or would you rather have the 3rd guy be a 3 and d wing who is a pure shooter?



How is that any different than his role this year? We just watched a full season of him playing effectively in that role. Is it the ideal use of him? No, but he just finished year 2. Let’s see how he continues to develop.



he was the number 2 guy this year


He didn't do much more than stand in the corner and wait for Randle to pass him the ball in the corner. When he was on the floor with Rose and Randle, he pretty much was the third option and played really well in that role. His usage rate this season was only 23%, that is more in line with a complimentary piece than a number 2 guy.

I have more confidence in RJ's ability to play alongside a guy like Lillard than I do in Randle. Randle is
RE: RE: RE: RE: Say they traded for Lillard  
Mike in NJ : 6/6/2021 8:35 pm : link
In comment 15281132 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15281126 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15281125 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


In comment 15281116 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and kept Rj, You think Rj is going to be effective standing at the 3 point line waiting for the ball? he is going to be effective as the weakside shooter?

or would you rather have the 3rd guy be a 3 and d wing who is a pure shooter?



How is that any different than his role this year? We just watched a full season of him playing effectively in that role. Is it the ideal use of him? No, but he just finished year 2. Let’s see how he continues to develop.



he was the number 2 guy this year



He didn't do much more than stand in the corner and wait for Randle to pass him the ball in the corner. When he was on the floor with Rose and Randle, he pretty much was the third option and played really well in that role. His usage rate this season was only 23%, that is more in line with a complimentary piece than a number 2 guy.

I have more confidence in RJ's ability to play alongside a guy like Lillard than I do in Randle. Randle is


Was going to add Randle is used to being the primary ball handler, and having everything run through him for the last 2 years.
I just dont see Rj  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 8:40 pm : link
as a piece that can play well with other stars, and yeah he averaged 18ppg and improved his 3 point shot, but he was terrible going to the rim, his decision making is trash and when he didnt fet the ball enough he lossed his rythm very easily..

Randle can play off the ball much easier because he can pick and pop, pick and roll..

He can also set up the other star better than Rj can..

I am sorry i wish i saw it with Rj but i dont, thats not to say i want to get rid of him for nothing, id only trade him for a superstar..

but with Rj i see just a guy, i can find a bunch of guys who can average 17-18 ppg and shoot the 3 and play defense..
Randle played off the ball in new orleans  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 8:41 pm : link
and averaged 21 and 10
RE: Randle played off the ball in new orleans  
Mike in NJ : 6/6/2021 8:50 pm : link
In comment 15281139 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and averaged 21 and 10


Yeah how'd that team do?
RE: RE: Randle played off the ball in new orleans  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 8:53 pm : link
In comment 15281144 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15281139 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and averaged 21 and 10



Yeah how'd that team do?


It would of been fine if he had another star playing with him..

Dont act like Randle didnt carry this team all year
Good article on Barrett from back in April  
Mike in NJ : 6/6/2021 8:54 pm : link
The comment about him being "terrible going to the rim" reminded me of it.


Barrett - ( New Window )
RE: I would rather have RJ  
TyreeHelmet : 6/6/2021 8:57 pm : link
In comment 15281118 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
The kid is 20 and brought his 3-pt shooting up to 40% in his second year. If he improves his FT shooting, mid-game and finishing around the rim, he's 22/7/5 at the 3. I'd take that all day.


You would take Barrett over Lillard?
RE: RE: RE: Randle played off the ball in new orleans  
Mike in NJ : 6/6/2021 9:01 pm : link
In comment 15281146 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15281144 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


In comment 15281139 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and averaged 21 and 10



Yeah how'd that team do?



It would of been fine if he had another star playing with him..

Dont act like Randle didnt carry this team all year


Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday aren't stars?

Julius Randle absolutely carried this team, but that doesn't mean he would be a great fit next to another ball dominant player. He is at his best as the guy running the show.
RE: Good article on Barrett from back in April  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 9:04 pm : link
In comment 15281149 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
The comment about him being "terrible going to the rim" reminded me of it.
Barrett - ( New Window )


so for a month he was good..

For the year 5-9 feet 35%
10-15 feet 35%
15-19feet 35%

when he finally got to the rim he shot 50%
RE: RE: RE: RE: Randle played off the ball in new orleans  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 9:08 pm : link
In comment 15281156 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15281146 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15281144 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


In comment 15281139 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and averaged 21 and 10



Yeah how'd that team do?



It would of been fine if he had another star playing with him..

Dont act like Randle didnt carry this team all year



Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday aren't stars?

Julius Randle absolutely carried this team, but that doesn't mean he would be a great fit next to another ball dominant player. He is at his best as the guy running the show.


Anthony davis was barely playing and Holiday is not a star stop..

He was only a ball dominant player because he was the number 1 option and the team had zero point guards on this roster..

With a good point he doesnt have to play that way and he wont...
If you think Rj  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 9:15 pm : link
can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..

So lets just agree to disagree haha
RE: If you think Rj  
Mike in NJ : 6/6/2021 9:20 pm : link
In comment 15281171 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..

So lets just agree to disagree haha


I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.

You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?

Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.
RE: I just dont see Rj  
PwndPapi : 6/6/2021 9:27 pm : link
In comment 15281138 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
as a piece that can play well with other stars, and yeah he averaged 18ppg and improved his 3 point shot, but he was terrible going to the rim, his decision making is trash and when he didnt fet the ball enough he lossed his rythm very easily..

Randle can play off the ball much easier because he can pick and pop, pick and roll..

He can also set up the other star better than Rj can..

I am sorry i wish i saw it with Rj but i dont, thats not to say i want to get rid of him for nothing, id only trade him for a superstar..

but with Rj i see just a guy, i can find a bunch of guys who can average 17-18 ppg and shoot the 3 and play defense..


You've been shitting on RJ all year. The kid is 20 years old and all he did was improve his eFG% by 50 points in year two. Go take a look at what guys like Bradley Beal were doing in year 1, year 2 and year 3. Coincidentally, Beal was also 20 years old in year 2. Or other guys you want to trade RJ for.

He sucked going to the rim? You mean a 20 year old kid isn't a finished product? What a revelation.
RE: RE: I just dont see Rj  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 9:29 pm : link
In comment 15281179 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15281138 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


as a piece that can play well with other stars, and yeah he averaged 18ppg and improved his 3 point shot, but he was terrible going to the rim, his decision making is trash and when he didnt fet the ball enough he lossed his rythm very easily..

Randle can play off the ball much easier because he can pick and pop, pick and roll..

He can also set up the other star better than Rj can..

I am sorry i wish i saw it with Rj but i dont, thats not to say i want to get rid of him for nothing, id only trade him for a superstar..

but with Rj i see just a guy, i can find a bunch of guys who can average 17-18 ppg and shoot the 3 and play defense..



You've been shitting on RJ all year. The kid is 20 years old and all he did was improve his eFG% by 50 points in year two. Go take a look at what guys like Bradley Beal were doing in year 1, year 2 and year 3. Coincidentally, Beal was also 20 years old in year 2. Or other guys you want to trade RJ for.

He sucked going to the rim? You mean a 20 year old kid isn't a finished product? What a revelation.


Nobody said he was a finished product and where did i say i would want to just get rid of him and i said multiple times i hope he improves and i hope he does it eith the Knicks..

BUT if a stsr becomes available i have no problem trading him
RE: RE: If you think Rj  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 9:30 pm : link
In comment 15281174 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15281171 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..

So lets just agree to disagree haha



I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.

You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?

Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.


Randle can still play with the ball in his hands a lot playing with a guy like Lillard, because he can set Lillard up and vice versa...

You can have 2 of those types, i dont think it works with 3
RE: RE: I would rather have RJ  
PwndPapi : 6/6/2021 9:30 pm : link
In comment 15281151 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 15281118 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


The kid is 20 and brought his 3-pt shooting up to 40% in his second year. If he improves his FT shooting, mid-game and finishing around the rim, he's 22/7/5 at the 3. I'd take that all day.



You would take Barrett over Lillard?


That isn't what I said. The question he posed was assuming we were able to trade for Lillard without giving up RJ in the deal, would you prefer RJ at the 3 or 3 and D guy (no examples given.

I'd rather hold on to the 20 year old kid who put in the work and made a significant jump in shooting efficiency - what many here claimed wasn't possible.
RE: RE: RE: If you think Rj  
Mike in NJ : 6/6/2021 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15281181 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15281174 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


In comment 15281171 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..

So lets just agree to disagree haha



I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.

You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?

Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.



Randle can still play with the ball in his hands a lot playing with a guy like Lillard, because he can set Lillard up and vice versa...

You can have 2 of those types, i dont think it works with 3


I think we can both agree that we would love to find out lol
RE: RE: RE: RE: If you think Rj  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 9:40 pm : link
In comment 15281184 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15281181 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15281174 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


In comment 15281171 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..

So lets just agree to disagree haha



I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.

You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?

Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.



Randle can still play with the ball in his hands a lot playing with a guy like Lillard, because he can set Lillard up and vice versa...

You can have 2 of those types, i dont think it works with 3



I think we can both agree that we would love to find out lol


100% if we can get Lillard without giving up Rj, i would without a doubt hope i was wrong lol..

Id rather be wrong snd the Knicks win than thr Knicks lose and be right..
The Blazers / Kidd / Dame news  
Leg of Theismann : 6/6/2021 10:59 pm : link
Has me feeling better about Dame possibly wanting a trade, and I don’t know why I just have a really good feeling NY feels very Dame-like to me now that we have a better culture.

However, Clippers advancing kinda shoots a hole in our Kawhi fantasies.

Dame will want a great supporting cast if he chooses to come here, and good news is we have the cap space to make that happen, bad news is the trade could potentially deplete us and make it harder for that to happen. Dame is a smart dude and will consider all of these things IMO.
You have to give up something that's going to hurt  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2021 7:59 am : link
if you're going to trade for Dame. You're not going to get him just for mid-round first round picks and Toppin.

You can love RJ and think he's a wonderful young player and still be okay with trading him. Say thanks, good luck & god bless.

Part of the game is developing talent into assets. It's cold, but it's nothing personal.


Now would I make the trade myself? Dame's 31 years old. I LOVE dame. but he's like 5 years older than Melo was when we got him. That's a much smaller window to work with.
RE: You have to give up something that's going to hurt  
adamg : 6/7/2021 8:07 am : link
In comment 15281372 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
if you're going to trade for Dame. You're not going to get him just for mid-round first round picks and Toppin.

You can love RJ and think he's a wonderful young player and still be okay with trading him. Say thanks, good luck & god bless.

Part of the game is developing talent into assets. It's cold, but it's nothing personal.


Now would I make the trade myself? Dame's 31 years old. I LOVE dame. but he's like 5 years older than Melo was when we got him. That's a much smaller window to work with.


I agree. People seem to think we can dump our luke warm assets and get an all star. That's not how it would work.

We need to stay on the course we're on. Keep hitting draft picks and we'll be competitive with a huge window.

If RJ improves from year 2 to 3 like he did from 1 to 2, we've got another all star on the roster already.

Give me Powell and Ball. Ascending talent on second contracts. Don't overpay, but get the guys with the upside who fill out our team. We need another shooter and a PG. And a big who can give us some offense underneath. Draft picks and RFAs can put us in a good spot. We don't need to trade RJ and IQ to compete.
RE: RE: You have to give up something that's going to hurt  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 8:32 am : link
In comment 15281377 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15281372 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


if you're going to trade for Dame. You're not going to get him just for mid-round first round picks and Toppin.

You can love RJ and think he's a wonderful young player and still be okay with trading him. Say thanks, good luck & god bless.

Part of the game is developing talent into assets. It's cold, but it's nothing personal.


Now would I make the trade myself? Dame's 31 years old. I LOVE dame. but he's like 5 years older than Melo was when we got him. That's a much smaller window to work with.



I agree. People seem to think we can dump our luke warm assets and get an all star. That's not how it would work.

We need to stay on the course we're on. Keep hitting draft picks and we'll be competitive with a huge window.

If RJ improves from year 2 to 3 like he did from 1 to 2, we've got another all star on the roster already.

Give me Powell and Ball. Ascending talent on second contracts. Don't overpay, but get the guys with the upside who fill out our team. We need another shooter and a PG. And a big who can give us some offense underneath. Draft picks and RFAs can put us in a good spot. We don't need to trade RJ and IQ to compete.


would love to do it this way, but you need stars to win a championship....you can build a good team and be a nice 2nd round team eithout stars but not a champiosnhip
Stars hit FA  
adamg : 6/7/2021 8:37 am : link
Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.
RE: Stars hit FA  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 8:51 am : link
In comment 15281392 adamg said:
Quote:
Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.


I dont think anyone said it is the only way
RE: Stars hit FA  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2021 8:51 am : link
In comment 15281392 adamg said:
Quote:
Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.


This is somewhat true. Young guys are incentivised to sign with their original team. The draft team can pay more on that extension contract than a new team. They don't often turn down that money. They get the extension with the home team then force a trade.
How great of a fit  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 9:00 am : link
would be a healtht Porzingis next to Randle? thid kp hell fricken no..
RE: RE: Stars hit FA  
adamg : 6/7/2021 9:20 am : link
In comment 15281400 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15281392 adamg said:


Quote:


Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.



I dont think anyone said it is the only way


You've implied it.
Lillard would be  
NYG-TDBlue : 6/7/2021 9:27 am : link
a momumental get for the NYK. Having him, Randle and probably keeping 2-3 of Quicks,Mitch,RJ, and Obi will be a solid foundation to attract another star.

RE: RE: RE: Stars hit FA  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 9:28 am : link
In comment 15281434 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15281400 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15281392 adamg said:


Quote:


Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.



I dont think anyone said it is the only way



You've implied it.


Ive implied that this was the only way to get a star?? really?? Funny because i always say i dont care how you get a star whether it is drsft one, trade for one or free agent...

Warriors are more exception  
NYG-TDBlue : 6/7/2021 9:30 am : link
than rule in today's NBA
As I said yesterday, I don't think Randle is the type that is an easy  
Mike in NJ : 6/7/2021 9:48 am : link
fit next to just any star. He is very ball dominant, and works best when the offense is centered around him.

They need to be looking for a guy that can take some of the scoring burden off of him, especially in crunch time, and can be a secondary playmaker when needed, but isn't completely reliant on being the primary ball handler. In terms of guys that are rumored to be available think Bradley Beal compared to Damian Lillard. I don't think you can stick Randle and Lillard on the court together and expect it to be an easy fit.

I also think a guy like Chris Paul if he decides to leave Phoenix, which doesn't seem likely now that they have advanced to round 2, would be a great fit because he has shown he can play effectively even when he has to take a backseat to a James Harden or Devin Booker.

I do really like the idea of Norman Powell. Regardless of who they decide to pursue as a star, Powell is someone that I think is a perfect fit as a complimentary piece. A 3-D player and then some. I hope he is their #1 target in free agency this summer.

RE: As I said yesterday, I don't think Randle is the type that is an easy  
RicFlair : 6/7/2021 9:50 am : link
In comment 15281454 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
fit next to just any star. He is very ball dominant, and works best when the offense is centered around him.

They need to be looking for a guy that can take some of the scoring burden off of him, especially in crunch time, and can be a secondary playmaker when needed, but isn't completely reliant on being the primary ball handler. In terms of guys that are rumored to be available think Bradley Beal compared to Damian Lillard. I don't think you can stick Randle and Lillard on the court together and expect it to be an easy fit.

I also think a guy like Chris Paul if he decides to leave Phoenix, which doesn't seem likely now that they have advanced to round 2, would be a great fit because he has shown he can play effectively even when he has to take a backseat to a James Harden or Devin Booker.

I do really like the idea of Norman Powell. Regardless of who they decide to pursue as a star, Powell is someone that I think is a perfect fit as a complimentary piece. A 3-D player and then some. I hope he is their #1 target in free agency this summer.


I don’t like the idea of Randle being the reason we don’t get Dame.
RE: RE: As I said yesterday, I don't think Randle is the type that is an easy  
Mike in NJ : 6/7/2021 10:02 am : link
In comment 15281458 RicFlair said:
Quote:
In comment 15281454 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


fit next to just any star. He is very ball dominant, and works best when the offense is centered around him.

They need to be looking for a guy that can take some of the scoring burden off of him, especially in crunch time, and can be a secondary playmaker when needed, but isn't completely reliant on being the primary ball handler. In terms of guys that are rumored to be available think Bradley Beal compared to Damian Lillard. I don't think you can stick Randle and Lillard on the court together and expect it to be an easy fit.

I also think a guy like Chris Paul if he decides to leave Phoenix, which doesn't seem likely now that they have advanced to round 2, would be a great fit because he has shown he can play effectively even when he has to take a backseat to a James Harden or Devin Booker.

I do really like the idea of Norman Powell. Regardless of who they decide to pursue as a star, Powell is someone that I think is a perfect fit as a complimentary piece. A 3-D player and then some. I hope he is their #1 target in free agency this summer.




I don’t like the idea of Randle being the reason we don’t get Dame.


If he is available then you absolutely make the trade and figure out how to make it work. We did see first hand with Stat and Carmelo (when Amare actually suited up) though that you can't just stick two stars on the court and expect it to be a good fit.

I mentioned it before the season when people were clamoring for a Randle trade, and it is even more true after how he played this season, I don't think he is going anywhere so they need to figure out the best way to build around him. It was clear that Rose and crew were placing a ton of value on CAA/Kentucky guys, and Randle checks both of those boxes. He is here to stay so how do we maximize the team we put around him?
not sure  
hitdog42 : 6/7/2021 11:30 am : link
the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.
RE: not sure  
Heisenberg : 6/7/2021 12:56 pm : link
In comment 15281538 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.


RJ not a reliable 3pt shooter? Might want to check the numbers on that one.

There are definitely valid questions about his ceiling but he's clearly as good as any young player that has been traded for a star recently. He improved in basically every aspect of his game and is a really solid defender too.

And I think you're overrating the value of the players who have been traded for star players. Stars don't get traded for stars in the NBA. Nets didn't give up anyone special to get Harden. SGA is probably the best player I can think of to get traded in one of these deals recently and he took a huge step forward after the trade.

Knicks definitely have enough to make a deal. I'd personally probably prefer one more season of asset acquisition.
RE: not sure  
Strahan91 : 6/7/2021 12:59 pm : link
In comment 15281538 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.

This makes no sense. RJ doesn't have trade value? Toppin is a throw in? What team that would be in the market for a star this offseason (so no OKC) via trade could put together a better package? Boston if they're willing to trade Brown (unlikely), maybe GS depending on how the other team feels about Wiseman, Miami no, Dallas no, LA Teams no, etc etc...
RE: RE: not sure  
Strahan91 : 6/7/2021 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15281592 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 15281538 hitdog42 said:


Quote:


the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.



RJ not a reliable 3pt shooter? Might want to check the numbers on that one.

There are definitely valid questions about his ceiling but he's clearly as good as any young player that has been traded for a star recently. He improved in basically every aspect of his game and is a really solid defender too.

And I think you're overrating the value of the players who have been traded for star players. Stars don't get traded for stars in the NBA. Nets didn't give up anyone special to get Harden. SGA is probably the best player I can think of to get traded in one of these deals recently and he took a huge step forward after the trade.

And SGA likely wouldn't have been included in a deal for George in a vacuum but they got Kawhi + George essentially.
RE: RE: not sure  
Mike in NJ : 6/7/2021 1:17 pm : link
In comment 15281592 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 15281538 hitdog42 said:


Quote:


the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.



RJ not a reliable 3pt shooter? Might want to check the numbers on that one.

There are definitely valid questions about his ceiling but he's clearly as good as any young player that has been traded for a star recently. He improved in basically every aspect of his game and is a really solid defender too.

And I think you're overrating the value of the players who have been traded for star players. Stars don't get traded for stars in the NBA. Nets didn't give up anyone special to get Harden. SGA is probably the best player I can think of to get traded in one of these deals recently and he took a huge step forward after the trade.

Knicks definitely have enough to make a deal. I'd personally probably prefer one more season of asset acquisition.


Was going to say this as well. Barrett was a 40% 3 point shooter, what more do we want from him there?

The Nets got James Harden in a deal packaged around Caris LeVert, it’s not like you need a Zion level young player to put in a deal....
People are going to be skeptical of RJ until he adds consistency  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2021 1:24 pm : link
He was a 40% catch and shooter for about 50 games. That's progress. He would HAVE to be in a deal but I don't think his season is changing anyone's mind about him around the league. He didn't really help his case in the playoffs either.

Hope he keeps growing. Needs to learn to shoot off the dribble and finish reliably at the rim.
RE: People are going to be skeptical of RJ until he adds consistency  
hitdog42 : 6/7/2021 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15281624 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
He was a 40% catch and shooter for about 50 games. That's progress. He would HAVE to be in a deal but I don't think his season is changing anyone's mind about him around the league. He didn't really help his case in the playoffs either.

Hope he keeps growing. Needs to learn to shoot off the dribble and finish reliably at the rim.


thank you for a non defensive response- analytics dont like his shooting either. he still needs to prove himself. he improved this year but there are a lot of questions still when we are talking centerpiece of a blockbuster trade. toppin has been given limited opportunity and proved nothing in those.

players like SVG and Halliburton are young guys who could be centerpieces (even though they would be unlikely destinations). thus the point the big part of any knicks trade would be all of their picks.

RE: RE: People are going to be skeptical of RJ until he adds consistency  
Heisenberg : 6/7/2021 1:52 pm : link
In comment 15281632 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
In comment 15281624 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


He was a 40% catch and shooter for about 50 games. That's progress. He would HAVE to be in a deal but I don't think his season is changing anyone's mind about him around the league. He didn't really help his case in the playoffs either.

Hope he keeps growing. Needs to learn to shoot off the dribble and finish reliably at the rim.



thank you for a non defensive response- analytics dont like his shooting either. he still needs to prove himself. he improved this year but there are a lot of questions still when we are talking centerpiece of a blockbuster trade. toppin has been given limited opportunity and proved nothing in those.

players like SVG and Halliburton are young guys who could be centerpieces (even though they would be unlikely destinations). thus the point the big part of any knicks trade would be all of their picks.


Where do analytics not like RJs Shooting?

It's not really accurate to say that RJ was a 40% catch and shoot guy for 50 games. He was actually .401% for the whole 72 game season. If you drop the five games from December, his season pct is .425, which would be top 20. If you want a 50 game sample, in 51 games since Feb 1, he shot .443, which would be top 10.

Facts aren't really defensive. They're just facts.

He definitely needs to add shooting off the dribble and finishing. His personal skills trainer has said they'll be working on precisely that. There are ceiling questions, too. But to pretend he's not a good an ascending player who is as good as the other young guys who have been in superstar trades is kind of odd.
KP is really getting roasted.  
bceagle05 : 6/7/2021 2:11 pm : link
That’s a shame.
t/s %  
hitdog42 : 6/7/2021 2:11 pm : link
effective FG percentage
RE: RE: RE: not sure  
widmerseyebrow : 6/7/2021 2:12 pm : link
In comment 15281614 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
The Nets got James Harden in a deal packaged around Caris LeVert, it’s not like you need a Zion level young player to put in a deal....


This is a good point.

I also think it's premature to put Obi in the Knox category of trade throw-ins. He flashed a little towards the end of the season. Of course he shouldn't hold a deal up, but you'd really selling low on him at this point.
According  
Jon in NYC : 6/7/2021 2:32 pm : link
to Berman it sounds like there's mutual interest in Oubre.

Also it sounds like RJ would be the centerpiece of any Lillard deal, which is understandable.
RE: According  
Strahan91 : 6/7/2021 3:06 pm : link
In comment 15281693 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
to Berman it sounds like there's mutual interest in Oubre.

Also it sounds like RJ would be the centerpiece of any Lillard deal, which is understandable.

Not too excited about Oubre. He's a fine player but they don't need any more inconsistent offensive players.
He had an awful season in 21  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2021 3:14 pm : link
but he's generally been regarded as a good 3/D guy.

As always, what's the cost. Might be an option on a short term "let me rebuild my value" type contract.
RE: t/s %  
Heisenberg : 6/7/2021 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15281680 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
effective FG percentage


Yeah, for RJ it's still not very good. However, it did get a lot better this year than last. Really similar improvement to what Brandon Ingram did from year 1 (terrible) to year two (below average). RJ will really need to improve finishing and getting to the line to continue to improve his TS.
RE: RE: RE: RE: not sure  
Strahan91 : 6/7/2021 3:24 pm : link
In comment 15281683 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 15281614 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


The Nets got James Harden in a deal packaged around Caris LeVert, it’s not like you need a Zion level young player to put in a deal....



This is a good point.

I also think it's premature to put Obi in the Knox category of trade throw-ins. He flashed a little towards the end of the season. Of course he shouldn't hold a deal up, but you'd really selling low on him at this point.

Who was the last superstar-level prospect to get traded in a blockbuster for an established one? Ingram and SGA are both really good but they took major steps forward on their new teams. Hindsight is 20/20. You have those two, LeVert, DeRozan (which was an odd choice by SA given where they were then), Tobias Harris (for Griffin).
RE: KP is really getting roasted.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/7/2021 4:28 pm : link
In comment 15281678 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
That’s a shame.


Tim McMahon has an article on ESPN.com about the Mavs and Porzingis. He somehow manages to come across as more self-absorbed and delusional than he was with the Knicks. If you can’t get along with a championship winning coach or the franchise’s star, then you might be the problem.
If they have any shot  
MookGiants : 6/7/2021 4:54 pm : link
at Lillard obviously Barrett would have to be the centerpiece. The sixers are the team I would worry about with him if he does get traded. Lillard and Embiid together would be hard to beat. Those two would fit damn nearly perfectly. Simmons has warts but if given the choice I'd rather Simmons than Barrett
RE: not sure  
MookGiants : 6/7/2021 4:56 pm : link
In comment 15281538 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.


He doesn't have to prove that to get a big name. The Nets gave up less to get Harden. It just all depends on how ugly the situation gets in Portland and if he's willing to just force his way out like Harden was.

The Nets package was shit, but there wasnt really anywhere else for him to go.

If I'm the sixers i would push to trade Simmons for Lillard.
RE: RE: KP is really getting roasted.  
Leg of Theismann : 6/7/2021 5:02 pm : link
In comment 15281755 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15281678 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


That’s a shame.



Tim McMahon has an article on ESPN.com about the Mavs and Porzingis. He somehow manages to come across as more self-absorbed and delusional than he was with the Knicks. If you can’t get along with a championship winning coach or the franchise’s star, then you might be the problem.


Ugh. Good riddance. I honestly think we got the better side of that deal. And everyone seems to say “well but think of what Porzingis COULD be” IF he werent injured, IF he weren’t injury prone, IF he were on the right team, IF he could become more aggressive, IF he could learn to drive to the basket and/or get in the paint more... there are a million players in the history of the league who IF they could have done this or that could’ve been great players... but they weren’t. I agree I think Porzingis is the problem because there’s a “problem” everywhere he goes.
The ship's sailed on KP  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2021 5:44 pm : link
The injuries have taken away some of his lateral movement, so he's not the rim protector he used to be. He will never chose to play in the post and doesn't have the game to do so. He's a perimeter player but he does nothing else but shoot.
Thibs coach of the year  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 7:35 pm : link
..
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/7/2021 8:21 pm : link
Even without Harden, Nets look unstoppable.
RE: ...  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 8:28 pm : link
In comment 15281906 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Even without Harden, Nets look unstoppable.


Bucks will always be a 2nd round exit with Giannis as their nukber 1 and Midleton their number 2 and Budenholzer as their coach..
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/7/2021 8:44 pm : link
I don't see who is beating the Nets, unless their Big Three is all on the shelf. Too much firepower.
I can see why Giannis wanted Bogdanovic so badly.  
bceagle05 : 6/7/2021 9:06 pm : link
What a bunch of stiffs on that squad.
RE: ...  
BigBlueShock : 6/7/2021 9:22 pm : link
In comment 15281922 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I don't see who is beating the Nets, unless their Big Three is all on the shelf. Too much firepower.

As long as they stay healthy nobody is beating the Nets. I also don’t give a shit what they say, Nets fans will certainly take it and love it, but it just won’t feel complete to them. This isn’t their team. It’s not the team they had grown to love. It’s a bunch of mercenaries that aren’t theirs.

That’s not a knock on the Nets or the fans. As a Knicks fan I would feel the same way. I’ll gladly take the championship and carry it with me forever had these players gone to the Knicks. But I’d still feel like something was missing. It just wouldn’t be as special. Having 3 top 10 players team up intentionally and then adding guys like Blake who clearly tanked to get out of Detroit is incredibly lame. Again, Brooklyn fans will certainly take it, but nobody on the planet will ever look at Durant, Harden or Kyrie as Nets. They aren’t. They are mercenaries that teamed up to have an easy path to a championship and it happened to be in Brooklyn. Not one of them give a damn about Brooklyn. Except maybe Kyrie who grew up a New Jersey fan.
RE: Thibs coach of the year  
Del Shofner : 6/7/2021 9:27 pm : link
In comment 15281881 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..


How about that? Congrats Thibs!
Nets impressive -  
Del Shofner : 6/7/2021 9:59 pm : link
don't like many of their players but I like Nash.
RE: ...  
Leg of Theismann : 6/7/2021 10:14 pm : link
In comment 15281922 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I don't see who is beating the Nets, unless their Big Three is all on the shelf. Too much firepower.


I was saying before the series people underestimated what the Nets (including Durant and Griffin, who both have great combos of length and athleticism) could do on D against Giannis— people were just basing their assumptions on the fact he put up like 40 points a game against them in the regular season. But who the hell wants to step in front of Giannis in a regular season game? Now low and behold it’s the playoffs and of course you see them stepping in front of Giannis, taking contact, hands in his face from all directions, and giving 100% intensity and effort and clearly the results are vastly different.

I also thought coming into the series the “non-big-3” of the Nets (I.e. everyone else) was at least as good as the “non-big-3” of the Bucks. Everyone was talking about the Nets like they’re just those 3 guys and then literally no one else— they have so many guys who play their role and play it well. Oh not to mention the Bucks don’t even have a big 3. I mean those are those 3 best players, but they aren’t a big 3.

I also think Nash doesn’t get enough credit. I know literally anyone could win with this talent but even considering that the whole operation just looks super smooth— calculated and cohesive.
Signing that deal  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 10:15 pm : link
is looking prettt stupid for Giannis right now
You know what I just noticed?  
Jon in NYC : 6/7/2021 10:17 pm : link
The Knicks have early bird rights on both Bullock and Rose. That means their cap holds are 5 mil and 10 mil, and then the Knicks can sign them to 175% of their previous salary even if they're over the cap.

That seems like a no brainer for both. Would be a max of 4/52 for Rose and 4/28 for Bullock, but again, after they've already spent their cap room.

They should do that if no other reason to get cap filler for future trades, since it's hard to add medium salaried players once you've hit the cap.
If I were a Nets fan  
MookGiants : 6/7/2021 10:25 pm : link
I wouldn't care that it was a bunch of mercenaries. That's the way the game is these days. The NBA ha largely been ruined in the last 10 years as far as that goes.

The one thing that would bother me is Irving. I'd rather lose than win with him. One of the least likable players in the history of sports. He's one of very few guys in the history of sports I'd rather lose than have him on my team. Vick is another one.

If the Knicks are ever a contender again, it's largely going to be a group of mercenaries.
RE: Signing that deal  
MookGiants : 6/7/2021 10:32 pm : link
In comment 15281988 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
is looking prettt stupid for Giannis right now


Why does it look pretty stupid?

Guys force their way out all the time. Didn't stop Harden, didnt stop Anthony Davis. If they push the issue they wind up getting traded anyways
We not only need a stretch 5  
Carl in CT : 6/7/2021 10:51 pm : link
A PG but we also need (as a team) to be a lot more athletic.
Watching this Suns/Nuggets game  
Leg of Theismann : 6/8/2021 12:01 am : link
makes me laugh thinking about the fact my 70 year old father refuses to this day to watch the NBA anymore because the game is "too slow". I don't think he's watched an NBA game since like 2004. It's funny it seems there's an entire generation of men (mostly boomers it seems) who were NBA fans for like 50 years and then let a few years in the early 2000s just complete re-shape their view of the NBA for the rest of their natural born lives.
"too slow," "not enough passing," etc.  
Leg of Theismann : 6/8/2021 12:04 am : link
.
The kids and I have been having fun roundtable dinner convos about the  
Stu11 : 6/8/2021 12:43 am : link
Knicks lately and which way they should head. We chewed over this last night because I brought up that if a star pushes his way out and was dealt, I feel that Miami would be one of our main competitors. Clearly the city of Miami and South Beach has become a destination spot for NBA players. I posed this question: which guy do you NBA talent evaluators would prefe? RJ or Tyler Hero? Not so much who we'd prefer because we're biased, but the perception of the league. I think slightly more might favor Hero because of the bubble and his shooting, although RJ had the better season and I feel has more of an upside as an overall player.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Stars hit FA  
adamg : 6/8/2021 8:35 am : link
In comment 15281440 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15281434 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 15281400 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15281392 adamg said:


Quote:


Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.



I dont think anyone said it is the only way



You've implied it.



Ive implied that this was the only way to get a star?? really?? Funny because i always say i dont care how you get a star whether it is drsft one, trade for one or free agent...


Well, you've implied it's your preferred method. Every one of your scenarios ships out RJ. E.g. we get Kawhi in FA and then turn around and trade for Beal.

I think the real ideal involves not trading RJ or IQ. That's just my preference. I think long term that's best for this team.

We're one star richer already with Randle. RJ is going to be a star. Mitch has elite big upside. IQ is potentially an elite sixth man. We're a lot closer than people are making it out to be.

Adding a real point guard, a real shooter, we're easily a good playoff team and a star will want to come here when they hit FA.

Golden State may be hard to emulate, but it might be the most sustainable way to compete. And it makes for fun fan viewing.
Thibs is a difference maker as a coach  
adamg : 6/8/2021 8:41 am : link
I think that gets overlooked here sometimes.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Stars hit FA  
nygiants16 : 6/8/2021 8:48 am : link
In comment 15282185 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15281440 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15281434 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 15281400 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15281392 adamg said:


Quote:


Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.



I dont think anyone said it is the only way



You've implied it.



Ive implied that this was the only way to get a star?? really?? Funny because i always say i dont care how you get a star whether it is drsft one, trade for one or free agent...




Well, you've implied it's your preferred method. Every one of your scenarios ships out RJ. E.g. we get Kawhi in FA and then turn around and trade for Beal.

I think the real ideal involves not trading RJ or IQ. That's just my preference. I think long term that's best for this team.

We're one star richer already with Randle. RJ is going to be a star. Mitch has elite big upside. IQ is potentially an elite sixth man. We're a lot closer than people are making it out to be.

Adding a real point guard, a real shooter, we're easily a good playoff team and a star will want to come here when they hit FA.

Golden State may be hard to emulate, but it might be the most sustainable way to compete. And it makes for fun fan viewing.


I hope you are right..

RE: Watching this Suns/Nuggets game  
Enzo : 6/8/2021 8:54 am : link
In comment 15282027 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
makes me laugh thinking about the fact my 70 year old father refuses to this day to watch the NBA anymore because the game is "too slow". I don't think he's watched an NBA game since like 2004. It's funny it seems there's an entire generation of men (mostly boomers it seems) who were NBA fans for like 50 years and then let a few years in the early 2000s just complete re-shape their view of the NBA for the rest of their natural born lives.

I barely know anyone that's a hardcore NBA fan. It's crazy. And it's just not boomers, it's Gex-X as well.

The talent level is insane right now. There's a ton of elite players/no doubt HOFers/exciting young players - many of whom are are either approching their prime, in their prime, or just out of their prime. Might be the most in history.

LeBron, KD, Lillard, AD, LeBron, Harden, Jokic, Kawhi, Paul George, Kyrie, Chris Paul, Booker, Embiid, Giannis, Gobert, Curry, LaVine, Beal, Russ, Butler, Luka, Trae, Zion, LaMelo, Tatum.

And I'm almost certainly forgetting a few.
I'm starting to like the idea  
Leg of Theismann : 6/8/2021 4:13 pm : link
of finding a solid young up-and-coming player to trade for a package of our #19 and #21 picks. Can't get a star for just those 2 picks, but a 2nd or 3rd year guy who's on the rise. I agree w/ adamg that we're close than some people might think (though we will need a real star to come here at some point in the future) so I'd rather use those 2 picks to get 1 solid sure-thing of a young player rather than 2 mediocre rookies who may or may not still be on the team in 2023.
And I say that because  
Leg of Theismann : 6/8/2021 4:14 pm : link
I also think could probably better than trading like 4 or 5 1st round picks for a star-- would rather wait for a star to come available in FA and keep our future picks. But I'd like to use our plethora of picks this year to bring in an already-proven young player.
RE: And I say that because  
nygiants16 : 6/8/2021 4:21 pm : link
In comment 15282628 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
I also think could probably better than trading like 4 or 5 1st round picks for a star-- would rather wait for a star to come available in FA and keep our future picks. But I'd like to use our plethora of picks this year to bring in an already-proven young player.


I like the idea of teaming Lowry and Derozan on the Knicks with Rj, Randle and Mitch, bring back Rose and 1 of Bullock or Burks..

Keeping the trade chips until a number 1 guy comes available..
Oh God no  
Anakim : 6/8/2021 5:21 pm : link
Hoop Central
@TheHoopCentral

Report: The Knicks have “some level of interest” in John Wall if he were available via trade, per @massey_evan



For the love of all that is holy, don't
I  
Jon in NYC : 6/8/2021 5:22 pm : link
just dont believe that for a second.

They didn't take Westbrook for free, why would they want Wall?
I wish I were as confident that RJ is going to be a star  
bigbluehoya : 6/8/2021 5:29 pm : link
and I'm not pounding the table saying that he won't. I'm just not that confident in it happening.

I like his game and I think he'll continue to improve. But to my eye he's just missing that top level athleticism/twitch that I'm not sure he can overcome (insofar as stardom is concerned) without becoming an extremely proficient jump shooter.
RE: RE: And I say that because  
Leg of Theismann : 6/8/2021 5:30 pm : link
In comment 15282632 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15282628 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


I also think could probably better than trading like 4 or 5 1st round picks for a star-- would rather wait for a star to come available in FA and keep our future picks. But I'd like to use our plethora of picks this year to bring in an already-proven young player.



I like the idea of teaming Lowry and Derozan on the Knicks with Rj, Randle and Mitch, bring back Rose and 1 of Bullock or Burks..

Keeping the trade chips until a number 1 guy comes available..


You're meaning when a number 1 guy comes available this offseason, right? I was referring to this year's picks, not our future 2023 Mavs 1st rounder or any of our own 1st rounders. Because I mean we have to either trade those 4 2021 picks or use them to pick players on July 29th. We can't wait past that for a #1 guy to come available via trade so we need to do something w/ them in the next 2 months (packaging them to trade up of course is another option).
RJ as a star...  
manh george : 6/8/2021 5:38 pm : link
still seems very likely to me. No, his is not super fast-twitch. However, he is only in the early stages of learning how to shoot the 3 in varying circumstances--that will continue to improve. Dribble-and-shoot is planned by his coaches for this summer, for example.

He also has something a lot of the fast-twitch players do not--absolutely massive strength. At the age of 20, he is already top 10% in strength among shooting guards, assuming he ends up at the 2. Most 2s simply will not be able to stop him from getting deep inside, as he continues to get stronger.
RE: I  
nygiants16 : 6/8/2021 5:40 pm : link
In comment 15282671 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
just dont believe that for a second.

They didn't take Westbrook for free, why would they want Wall?


Wall is kentucky alum, close with Wes and i beliece CAA
RE: RE: RE: And I say that because  
nygiants16 : 6/8/2021 5:41 pm : link
In comment 15282676 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 15282632 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15282628 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


I also think could probably better than trading like 4 or 5 1st round picks for a star-- would rather wait for a star to come available in FA and keep our future picks. But I'd like to use our plethora of picks this year to bring in an already-proven young player.



I like the idea of teaming Lowry and Derozan on the Knicks with Rj, Randle and Mitch, bring back Rose and 1 of Bullock or Burks..

Keeping the trade chips until a number 1 guy comes available..



You're meaning when a number 1 guy comes available this offseason, right? I was referring to this year's picks, not our future 2023 Mavs 1st rounder or any of our own 1st rounders. Because I mean we have to either trade those 4 2021 picks or use them to pick players on July 29th. We can't wait past that for a #1 guy to come available via trade so we need to do something w/ them in the next 2 months (packaging them to trade up of course is another option).


yeah guess your right on that
I was just looking at that 2023 trade with Mavs  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/8/2021 5:48 pm : link
Why the hell would it be top ten protected both years so far out, I think we could have done better there.
RE: I was just looking at that 2023 trade with Mavs  
Leg of Theismann : 6/8/2021 9:42 pm : link
In comment 15282687 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Why the hell would it be top ten protected both years so far out, I think we could have done better there.


I would be 100% fine with the trade to this day if we just hadn’t given up Tim Hardaway. And I know hindsight is 20/20, but It just made no sense to me why we had to give him up as well in this trade when I already thought those 2 picks so far out + Dennis Smith wasn’t even enough value for Porzingis at the time. It’s like we had to give them Hardaway as well just to get them to take Porzingis off our hands? Bullshit. I liked always liked Hardaway’s game. Woulda been nice this year to have an extra shooter coming off the bench and could’ve especially helped against the Hawks.
Shake Milton going off on the Hawks.  
Del Shofner : 6/8/2021 9:56 pm : link
uh ... sorry but who is Shake Milton? (Serious question, I haven't really followed the Sixers.) Young not doing too well tonight.
RE: RE: I was just looking at that 2023 trade with Mavs  
adamg : 6/8/2021 9:58 pm : link
In comment 15282821 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 15282687 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


Why the hell would it be top ten protected both years so far out, I think we could have done better there.



I would be 100% fine with the trade to this day if we just hadn’t given up Tim Hardaway. And I know hindsight is 20/20, but It just made no sense to me why we had to give him up as well in this trade when I already thought those 2 picks so far out + Dennis Smith wasn’t even enough value for Porzingis at the time. It’s like we had to give them Hardaway as well just to get them to take Porzingis off our hands? Bullshit. I liked always liked Hardaway’s game. Woulda been nice this year to have an extra shooter coming off the bench and could’ve especially helped against the Hawks.


Hardaway was a shitty contract here. He didn't become a good shooter until last year.
I hope you guys are right about RJ  
Blue92 : 6/8/2021 10:22 pm : link
But I just don't see him being a real difference maker in the NBA. As of now his highest and best use is in a trade if a good one become available.
RE: RE: Watching this Suns/Nuggets game  
Greg from LI : 6/8/2021 10:27 pm : link
In comment 15282204 Enzo said:
Quote:

I barely know anyone that's a hardcore NBA fan. It's crazy. And it's just not boomers, it's Gex-X as well.


Well, there's the fact that the officiating in the league is almost certainly crooked. My team has been dogshit for two decades. The same fucking teams win over and over again. The superfriends bullshit is pathetic. It is by far the most overtly political league and I dont share its politics.

There are plenty of reasons to dislike the NBA despite being a basketball fan.
RE: RE: RE: Watching this Suns/Nuggets game  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/8/2021 10:32 pm : link
In comment 15282848 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15282204 Enzo said:


Quote:



I barely know anyone that's a hardcore NBA fan. It's crazy. And it's just not boomers, it's Gex-X as well.



Well, there's the fact that the officiating in the league is almost certainly crooked. My team has been dogshit for two decades. The same fucking teams win over and over again. The superfriends bullshit is pathetic. It is by far the most overtly political league and I dont share its politics.

There are plenty of reasons to dislike the NBA despite being a basketball fan.


The NBA is trying to capture the youth audience. They don't give a shit about GenX/Boomers. Its exactly why they coopted their political stance and the super individual play.

I don't have kids, but date women that do. Live in Tampa and their kids were all obsessed with OBJ because of the catch. It's not about teams, it's about players now. Things are going to go down the boxing way. Storylines are more important than the actual game.

The NFL is only going to stay around because of fantasy football to the consternation of many on this board I'd imagine, myself included. It is what it is.
I just see that lack of athleticism  
Carl in CT : 6/8/2021 11:26 pm : link
Is what will keep RJB from going to next level.
Knicks  
TyreeHelmet : 6/9/2021 9:55 am : link
No way I can see them pursuing John Wall. How about this tidbit from the "report"?

" He isn’t a long-term fit for the Rockets, and if New York really wants him, they have the pieces to get a deal done."

Those pieces better be multiple first round picks being sent to the Knicks because no one is touching that contract without assets being attached.
RE: Knicks  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 10:14 am : link
In comment 15282972 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
No way I can see them pursuing John Wall. How about this tidbit from the "report"?

" He isn’t a long-term fit for the Rockets, and if New York really wants him, they have the pieces to get a deal done."

Those pieces better be multiple first round picks being sent to the Knicks because no one is touching that contract without assets being attached.


Id be ok with Wall if he was plan F and Houdton gave up assets to get rid of him, otherwise f no
Houston is run awful...  
Italianju : 6/9/2021 10:21 am : link
id consider wall if they want to include Wood. Not as plan A but if we struck out i wouldnt hate it. Wood (when healthy) was awesome last year. Again im not advocating for this, but i wouldnt hate it.
RE: Houston is run awful...  
TyreeHelmet : 6/9/2021 10:25 am : link
In comment 15282992 Italianju said:
Quote:
id consider wall if they want to include Wood. Not as plan A but if we struck out i wouldnt hate it. Wood (when healthy) was awesome last year. Again im not advocating for this, but i wouldnt hate it.


The Wood signing was good but aside from that their new GM couldn't have had a worst start to a career. The returns on Westbrook and Harden are laughable. Maybe those picks work out way down the line but it looks awful right now.
I think Wall can still play  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 10:42 am : link
just not 40 million cap hit still play
RE: RE: RE: RE: Watching this Suns/Nuggets game  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/9/2021 11:08 am : link
In comment 15282856 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:

I don't have kids, but date women that do. Live in Tampa and their kids were all obsessed with OBJ because of the catch. It's not about teams, it's about players now. Things are going to go down the boxing way. Storylines are more important than the actual game.

The NFL is only going to stay around because of fantasy football to the consternation of many on this board I'd imagine, myself included. It is what it is.


When was the NBA not about players and storylines before now? This is news to me. Feels like the NBA has been successfully marketing marquee athletes since the 90s.
Article says Knicks are the favorite to land Lillard.  
manh george : 6/9/2021 12:39 pm : link
Far from a sure thing, but the Knicks have a pretty decent shot if Lillard pushes hard for a trade out.
Quote:
The consensus is quite clear, if the New York Knicks are going to allocate exponential resources toward a star point guard, it should be Damian Lillard and not Chris Paul. While Paul has proven his worth for many years, making the All-Star team the past two seasons, he averaged just 16.4 points this past season at 35 years old and is seeking a three-year contract which would end at 39.

Ultimately, the Knicks might have to depart with draft capital to acquire Lillard, but he offers them better play over a prolonged period of time. Lillard recently signed a four-year year, $176.2 million extension with the Portland Trailblazers, which hasn’t even kicked in yet. If the Knicks managed to trade for the star PG, they would have him for the next four seasons guaranteed, as there are no options built into the deal.

Link - ( New Window )
The Knicks will  
Jon in NYC : 6/9/2021 12:43 pm : link
be in a great position IF Lillard asks out, which I put at a 25% chance. Would love to be wrong.
Is  
Jon in NYC : 6/9/2021 12:45 pm : link
there a trade freeze on for teams that are eliminated? Like could the Knicks technically make this deal now?
RE: Is  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 12:51 pm : link
In comment 15283169 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
there a trade freeze on for teams that are eliminated? Like could the Knicks technically make this deal now?


Teams are allowed to start trading as soon as they are eliminated and no longer playing..

Players that are pending free agents are not allowed to be traded until new league year..

cap space is based off of this years cap
RE: RE: Is  
Jon in NYC : 6/9/2021 12:59 pm : link
In comment 15283177 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15283169 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


there a trade freeze on for teams that are eliminated? Like could the Knicks technically make this deal now?



Teams are allowed to start trading as soon as they are eliminated and no longer playing..

Players that are pending free agents are not allowed to be traded until new league year..

cap space is based off of this years cap


Ah, so it'd be tough to complete a trade right now for cap reasons.
RE: RE: RE: Is  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15283182 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15283177 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15283169 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


there a trade freeze on for teams that are eliminated? Like could the Knicks technically make this deal now?



Teams are allowed to start trading as soon as they are eliminated and no longer playing..

Players that are pending free agents are not allowed to be traded until new league year..

cap space is based off of this years cap



Ah, so it'd be tough to complete a trade right now for cap reasons.


Knicks still have 13 million in space
RE: RE: RE: RE: Is  
Jon in NYC : 6/9/2021 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15283183 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15283182 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 15283177 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15283169 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


there a trade freeze on for teams that are eliminated? Like could the Knicks technically make this deal now?



Teams are allowed to start trading as soon as they are eliminated and no longer playing..

Players that are pending free agents are not allowed to be traded until new league year..

cap space is based off of this years cap



Ah, so it'd be tough to complete a trade right now for cap reasons.



Knicks still have 13 million in space


Yeah but Dame is making almost 40, so it'd be tough to facilitate given that we have so many pending FAs.
9 times out of 10 though  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 1:02 pm : link
deals are agreed to before the league year but not official until after for like you said cap reasons
Reports now saying  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 1:35 pm : link
Kemba and Boston both want a trade..
RE: Reports now saying  
Heisenberg : 6/9/2021 2:17 pm : link
In comment 15283217 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Kemba and Boston both want a trade..


was just coming here to post about that.


His injury problems are real and I'm not sure how Thibs would manage that, but I love Kemba.
Link - ( New Window )
Unless  
Jon in NYC : 6/9/2021 2:19 pm : link
they want to attach Jaylen Brown, I have no interest in Kemba.
If they want to attach picks  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 2:23 pm : link
sure and Knicks would still be able to fill out roster..

Part of me thinks he would ball out with Knocks for a couple of years because he has something to prove and he would be home..
The Celts would have to include  
Jan in DC : 6/9/2021 2:24 pm : link
quite a bounty to get rid of Kemba at this point. Probably better for them to let him try to play up his value next season under a new coach and trade him when you didn't have to include assets.

I wouldn't consider a trade for him at this point in the Knicks rebuild. Even with picks or swaps, with Tatum and Brown, those picks wouldn't even be that good.
I'm a UConn fan so I can't exactly be rational about it.  
Heisenberg : 6/9/2021 2:29 pm : link
.
If celtics offered  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 2:34 pm : link
Kemba, 16 and a future 1st for Knox and 23rd dallas, i would think about it
RE: If celtics offered  
Jon in NYC : 6/9/2021 2:36 pm : link
In comment 15283279 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Kemba, 16 and a future 1st for Knox and 23rd dallas, i would think about it


Sorry but there's no way I'd take that. I'd rather have Rose than Kemba right now.
RE: RE: If celtics offered  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 2:40 pm : link
In comment 15283280 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15283279 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


Kemba, 16 and a future 1st for Knox and 23rd dallas, i would think about it



Sorry but there's no way I'd take that. I'd rather have Rose than Kemba right now.


Do you think 16, 19 and 21 gets you into the top 10?
RE: RE: If celtics offered  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 2:40 pm : link
In comment 15283280 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15283279 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


Kemba, 16 and a future 1st for Knox and 23rd dallas, i would think about it



Sorry but there's no way I'd take that. I'd rather have Rose than Kemba right now.


I have this weird feeling Kemba balls out next year
Boston had  
Enzo : 6/9/2021 2:40 pm : link
to really manage his workload this season. Seemed like he skipped almost every other game. I don't care how many picks they offer, I'm not interested given he has 2/73 left on his deal.
RE: RE: RE: If celtics offered  
Jon in NYC : 6/9/2021 2:50 pm : link
In comment 15283281 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15283280 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 15283279 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


Kemba, 16 and a future 1st for Knox and 23rd dallas, i would think about it



Sorry but there's no way I'd take that. I'd rather have Rose than Kemba right now.



Do you think 16, 19 and 21 gets you into the top 10?


Maybe, but who in the top 10 are you really targeting? Maybe Mitchell?
RE: Boston had  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 2:52 pm : link
In comment 15283283 Enzo said:
Quote:
to really manage his workload this season. Seemed like he skipped almost every other game. I don't care how many picks they offer, I'm not interested given he has 2/73 left on his deal.


Thats fair, that knee is worrisome
RE: RE: RE: RE: If celtics offered  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 2:53 pm : link
In comment 15283289 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15283281 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15283280 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 15283279 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


Kemba, 16 and a future 1st for Knox and 23rd dallas, i would think about it



Sorry but there's no way I'd take that. I'd rather have Rose than Kemba right now.



Do you think 16, 19 and 21 gets you into the top 10?



Maybe, but who in the top 10 are you really targeting? Maybe Mitchell?


Probably mitchell, depending on how high you could go
I get Zach Lavine vibes from James Bouknight (UConn).  
bceagle05 : 6/9/2021 2:53 pm : link
Wouldn't mind trading up for him if he falls to around #10.
Not saying you could or would ever happen  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 2:54 pm : link
BUT if you could package 19, 21 and Rj and get to the top 3, would you?
RE: Not saying you could or would ever happen  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/9/2021 3:02 pm : link
In comment 15283299 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
BUT if you could package 19, 21 and Rj and get to the top 3, would you?


There isn’t much I wouldn’t trade to get either of the Jalens on the Knicks.
Ten Ton Hammer  
arniefez : 6/9/2021 3:04 pm : link
Since the 80's not 90's. David Stern was a marketing genius. He was very lucky that the basketball gods gifted him Magic and Bird and then Jordan but he knew what to do when they did.

Are you old enough to remember that the NBA finals were shown on tape delay after the 11 o'clock news? That didn't end until 1986!


How David Stern Rescued the NBA and Turned Basketball Into a Global Force - ( New Window )
RE: If celtics offered  
TyreeHelmet : 6/9/2021 3:41 pm : link
In comment 15283279 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Kemba, 16 and a future 1st for Knox and 23rd dallas, i would think about it


Need to get more. I love Kemba but he is a massive risk right now. For him not to be able to suit up in a playoff game is a huge deal. The dude is tough as nails.

It would be a massive risk that could possibly pay off if he turns out to be even relatively healthy and could get you a couple extra 1sts. But I think you need to be getting 2 1st round picks to even consider it. He's 31 and a little guy...
The NBA feels different than the NFL  
Jan in DC : 6/9/2021 3:54 pm : link
in that I don't think there's much value to packaging picks. Teams in the top of the draft need quality, not quantity.

I don't imagine that 3 picks would get you into the top 10, but maybe?
Kemba  
31southst : 6/9/2021 4:26 pm : link
The only way I am interested is if all other PG options fall through, there are no free agents of note we can land, and it costs nothing. Basically if we have cap space to burn and can get him for like Knox, maybe I think about it. In practice I'd much rather just give his same contract to Lowry, even though I think KL could come for less (Kem has like 2/73 left and I think Lowry would cost 2/50 or thereabouts).
I think you're right about draft picks in the NBA  
arniefez : 6/9/2021 4:32 pm : link
most of the time anyone outside the top 5 isn't a difference maker. Some years it's just the top 2 like when the Knicks have the 3rd pick.
Yeah I don't think three picks gets you into the top 10  
bceagle05 : 6/9/2021 4:43 pm : link
but there are plenty of examples of teams packaging two firsts and moving up somewhere between 5-10 spots. If I'm the Knicks I'm doing that and holding on to that Detroit second rounder - I'm confident I can find a big at that spot to replace Noel for a fraction of the cost.
I'd  
Jon in NYC : 6/9/2021 4:46 pm : link
give both picks this year and Obi for a top 5 pick probably.
Daily Knicks had an interesting trade proposal  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 5:13 pm : link
I dont know if houston does this, doubtful, but..

Knox, both 1sts for wall and their 1st
RE: Daily Knicks had an interesting trade proposal  
Mike in NJ : 6/9/2021 5:23 pm : link
In comment 15283366 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
I dont know if houston does this, doubtful, but..

Knox, both 1sts for wall and their 1st


I’d do that in a second if I’m the Knicks. 2 years of Wall (who actually isn’t bad if not for the $$$ but on the + side prevents us from giving a long term deal to someone who may not deserve it) in exchange for a chance at Cade or Suggs? Sign me up.
RE: Daily Knicks had an interesting trade proposal  
Jon in NYC : 6/9/2021 5:27 pm : link
In comment 15283366 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
I dont know if houston does this, doubtful, but..

Knox, both 1sts for wall and their 1st


I'd probably do that. Wall really is not very good, injury prone, bad defender, inefficient scorer, but a top 3 pick for taking on his contract would be pretty nice -- especially since it's just for two years.
What is everyones thoughts on Sexton?  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 7:48 pm : link
..
RE: What is everyones thoughts on Sexton?  
Jon in NYC : 6/9/2021 9:25 pm : link
In comment 15283435 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..


This is a tough one. He's younger than Obi Toppin, just came off a season in which he put up 24 PPG on good shooting %s, he's developed a 3 point shot.

But he seems to have clashed with his teammates, definitely isn't a pure PG, and is iffy defensively. Plus he's going to need a big contract soon.

So in sum it'd really depend on price I guess. There's upside, I'd move maybe a first and Obi, but not a ton more.
RE: RE: What is everyones thoughts on Sexton?  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 9:30 pm : link
In comment 15283507 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15283435 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


..



This is a tough one. He's younger than Obi Toppin, just came off a season in which he put up 24 PPG on good shooting %s, he's developed a 3 point shot.

But he seems to have clashed with his teammates, definitely isn't a pure PG, and is iffy defensively. Plus he's going to need a big contract soon.

So in sum it'd really depend on price I guess. There's upside, I'd move maybe a first and Obi, but not a ton more.


Yeah its like you thibk its a no brainer just looking at his stats...

His assists did go up this year..

Would his defense be better under thibs? he is that attacking style point Thibs likes..
Didnt realize he was CAA  
nygiants16 : 6/9/2021 9:34 pm : link
and represented by Leon Rose
RE: RE: RE: What is everyones thoughts on Sexton?  
Jon in NYC : 6/9/2021 9:35 pm : link
In comment 15283515 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15283507 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 15283435 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


..



This is a tough one. He's younger than Obi Toppin, just came off a season in which he put up 24 PPG on good shooting %s, he's developed a 3 point shot.

But he seems to have clashed with his teammates, definitely isn't a pure PG, and is iffy defensively. Plus he's going to need a big contract soon.

So in sum it'd really depend on price I guess. There's upside, I'd move maybe a first and Obi, but not a ton more.



Yeah its like you thibk its a no brainer just looking at his stats...

His assists did go up this year..

Would his defense be better under thibs? he is that attacking style point Thibs likes..


He and Rose have weirdly similar games. He's a better shooter than Rose but Rose was more explosive. Definitely think his defense would improve with both Thibs and guys around him committed to playing defense.

You'd also be able to get him while on a rookie deal and still have a ton of money to spend this offseason.
That no look pass just now  
Leg of Theismann : 6/9/2021 10:04 pm : link
By CP3 was just awesome. Love watching him run an offense.
Surprised I haven’t seen more talk in this thread  
Leg of Theismann : 6/9/2021 10:59 pm : link
About targeting Spencer Dinwiddie in free agency. Seems like a PG Thibs would like, and he’s a guy coming off injury who has a lot to prove— love guys like that. Also his ACL tear was only a “partial tear” despite obviously still being season ending— seems like maybe not a career-altering injury but again he’ll prob come somewhat cheaper and he has something to prove.. Sign him and re-sign Rose and we’re set at PG. If we keep our picks I’d be down to draft Jared Butler w/ the #19 or #21 pick (he’s not as good as Davion Mitchell of course but I think he’s underrated in this draft because of Mitchell).
I cannot understand how anyone  
Leg of Theismann : 6/10/2021 3:02 am : link
Would EVER want Kemba right now. Jesus Christ. Look at his contract, AND he’s injury prone. I legit am willing to say Kemba and Dinwiddie are equal right now in terms of ability, and Dinwiddie will cost less than half of what Kemba will cost AND he’s 3 years younger.

If we’re going to pay $40M for a 31 year old PG it damn sure better be Lillard. Even if that means trading away our draft capital and a couple pieces we like. Devoting that much of your cap space to a guy who can’t even be a #3 option on a contender (yes he was #3 to Tatum and Brown and the Celtics SUCKED)... how could we ever hope to be compete for a championship in the near future if we do that?
Yeah hard pass on Kemba  
Stu11 : 6/10/2021 8:21 am : link
Good luck getting rid of that contract and deteriorating knee. Their best bet is maybe the Clippers if they flame out in this series and wanna keep Kawhi happy. They're capped out but maybe they could find enough salaries to match up.
Speaking of bad knees, De'Andre Hunter  
shyster : 6/10/2021 8:30 am : link
who hasn't played in the Sixers' series, is done with another meniscus tear in the same knee that was scoped during the season and caused him to miss 50 games.

You know what they say about the most important ability.

espn - ( New Window )
If you are the Blazers  
nygiants16 : 6/10/2021 8:35 am : link
and you get a godfather offer from a team for Lillard, dont you have to do it? Then you trade Mccollum and Nurkic and you can rebuild with a young team pretty quickly..

I know the Blazers probably dont do that, but you are not improving that team anymore than you already have, you have a golden oppurtunity here..
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/10/2021 8:41 am : link
LOL to trading for Kemba. People must be out of their mind.
RE: If you are the Blazers  
Jon in NYC : 6/10/2021 9:14 am : link
In comment 15283675 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and you get a godfather offer from a team for Lillard, dont you have to do it? Then you trade Mccollum and Nurkic and you can rebuild with a young team pretty quickly..

I know the Blazers probably dont do that, but you are not improving that team anymore than you already have, you have a golden oppurtunity here..


I've been trying to figure out if I've just been viewing this from a Knicks lens, but it's just tough to see how you don't blow it up as the Blazers.

Your starting SF is gone. Your starting PF and C are gone after this year. Melo is gone. Your coach is gone.

And you just got knocked out by a Nuggets team without its second best player. How are you going to improve your roster? You don't have many picks, you don't have young pieces...

Blow it up!
Knicks linked to Myles Turner  
nygiants16 : 6/10/2021 3:11 pm : link
would be a fantastic fit next to randle
RE: Knicks linked to Myles Turner  
Stu11 : 6/10/2021 4:59 pm : link
In comment 15284065 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
would be a fantastic fit next to randle

Wish to God they'd put Brogdon on the market. Man he'd fit great in orange and blue
why are the Pacers  
Enzo : 6/10/2021 5:03 pm : link
looking to move one from Turner?
He's  
Jon in NYC : 6/10/2021 5:15 pm : link
not cheap and he's always hurt. When healthy he's a great modern big. Can shoot and defend the paint extremely well.
RE: why are the Pacers  
nygiants16 : 6/10/2021 5:25 pm : link
In comment 15284155 Enzo said:
Quote:
looking to move one from Turner?


Supposedly they want to make Sabonis a full time center
He has 2 more years  
nygiants16 : 6/10/2021 5:26 pm : link
at 17.5
RE: He has 2 more years  
Leg of Theismann : 6/10/2021 5:39 pm : link
In comment 15284167 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
at 17.5


Why would we want Turner over Robinson? They’re about equal in defending, Robinson is the better rebounder, Turner is the better scorer. I personally think rebounding is more important in a center for us than scoring. I give the edge to Robinson as an overall player and Robinson is 2 years younger. Both are injury prone so that doesn’t provide an advantage. I don’t get the appeal.
RE: RE: He has 2 more years  
nygiants16 : 6/10/2021 5:45 pm : link
In comment 15284169 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 15284167 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


at 17.5



Why would we want Turner over Robinson? They’re about equal in defending, Robinson is the better rebounder, Turner is the better scorer. I personally think rebounding is more important in a center for us than scoring. I give the edge to Robinson as an overall player and Robinson is 2 years younger. Both are injury prone so that doesn’t provide an advantage. I don’t get the appeal.


They arent equal defending, Turner is bigger and doesnt get pushed around, turner is also a better shot blocker, not by much but he is..

and saying Turner is better offensively doesnt do it justice, he is worlds better offensively
RE: RE: He has 2 more years  
BigBlueShock : 6/10/2021 6:13 pm : link
In comment 15284169 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 15284167 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


at 17.5



Why would we want Turner over Robinson? They’re about equal in defending, Robinson is the better rebounder, Turner is the better scorer. I personally think rebounding is more important in a center for us than scoring. I give the edge to Robinson as an overall player and Robinson is 2 years younger. Both are injury prone so that doesn’t provide an advantage. I don’t get the appeal.

One could argue that aside from point guard, the biggest issue with this offense is having a 5 that are all absolutely net zeroes on offense. Today’s game is about spacing. Having a somewhat reliable threat at the 5 would open a ton of things up. All you have to do is watch how Atlanta defended them. Capella never had to leave the paint. The Knicks desperately need a 5 that can score on things other than dunks
RE: RE: If you are the Blazers  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/10/2021 8:22 pm : link
In comment 15283690 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15283675 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and you get a godfather offer from a team for Lillard, dont you have to do it? Then you trade Mccollum and Nurkic and you can rebuild with a young team pretty quickly..

I know the Blazers probably dont do that, but you are not improving that team anymore than you already have, you have a golden oppurtunity here..



I've been trying to figure out if I've just been viewing this from a Knicks lens, but it's just tough to see how you don't blow it up as the Blazers.

Your starting SF is gone. Your starting PF and C are gone after this year. Melo is gone. Your coach is gone.

And you just got knocked out by a Nuggets team without its second best player. How are you going to improve your roster? You don't have many picks, you don't have young pieces...

Blow it up!


I would too, but I don't see them doing it. I would love if Lillard got dealt to NY, but I just don't see it happening unless he pulls a Harden & just becomes a complete dog. Dame doesn't strike me as having that in him, but who knows? Things change. He wanted Kidd as HC, but he pulled his name out of consideration.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/10/2021 8:35 pm : link
Giannis with another 10 second penalty at stripe.
RE: RE: RE: He has 2 more years  
Jon in NYC : 6/10/2021 9:06 pm : link
In comment 15284177 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15284169 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


In comment 15284167 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


at 17.5



Why would we want Turner over Robinson? They’re about equal in defending, Robinson is the better rebounder, Turner is the better scorer. I personally think rebounding is more important in a center for us than scoring. I give the edge to Robinson as an overall player and Robinson is 2 years younger. Both are injury prone so that doesn’t provide an advantage. I don’t get the appeal.


One could argue that aside from point guard, the biggest issue with this offense is having a 5 that are all absolutely net zeroes on offense. Today’s game is about spacing. Having a somewhat reliable threat at the 5 would open a ton of things up. All you have to do is watch how Atlanta defended them. Capella never had to leave the paint. The Knicks desperately need a 5 that can score on things other than dunks


You really have a chance to be a dynamic offense with a 4 and 5 that are both real threats from downtown.
Bucks/Nets tied with three minutes left.  
bceagle05 : 6/10/2021 9:58 pm : link
Feels like KD and Kyrie will hit a bucket each to take this one. Somehow Milwaukee is suffocating Brooklyn’s offense and they still can’t seize control.
Aaaaand the Bucks hang on.  
bceagle05 : 6/10/2021 10:12 pm : link
Giannis needs to show up in Game 4.
RE: RE: RE: He has 2 more years  
Leg of Theismann : 6/10/2021 10:31 pm : link
In comment 15284171 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15284169 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


In comment 15284167 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


at 17.5



Why would we want Turner over Robinson? They’re about equal in defending, Robinson is the better rebounder, Turner is the better scorer. I personally think rebounding is more important in a center for us than scoring. I give the edge to Robinson as an overall player and Robinson is 2 years younger. Both are injury prone so that doesn’t provide an advantage. I don’t get the appeal.



They arent equal defending, Turner is bigger and doesnt get pushed around, turner is also a better shot blocker, not by much but he is..

and saying Turner is better offensively doesnt do it justice, he is worlds better offensively


Well he may be bigger and doesn’t get pushed around but then I’m just wondering why he doesn’t come up w/ more rebounds. He basically averages 8 reb per 36 min while Robinson averages 11. I’m only drawing so much attention to this because I think a big reason why we got destroyed by the Hawks was because we got absolutely waxed in the boards. It’s the part of Robinson we missed most coming down the stretch (despite the fact Noel did a tremendous job protecting the rim almost all year he simply wasn’t a force on the glass).

Idk I’m only playing devils advocate here because I do feel like with free agents it can often be a “grass is greener” situation. And The best ability is availability so I’ve been more willing than most to trade Robinson (not for nothing though) but Turner is also not exactly reliable in that department either so that also is causing me to scrutinize him a little more.
Stupid question here  
Leg of Theismann : 6/11/2021 3:44 am : link
I just saw the Nets are like $30-40M over the cap for this season. So like why is that allowed exactly? Like are there any consequences for being over the cap then really? And they’ll be allowed to just be way over the cap next year as well?
RE: Stupid question here  
TyreeHelmet : 6/11/2021 9:30 am : link
In comment 15284386 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
I just saw the Nets are like $30-40M over the cap for this season. So like why is that allowed exactly? Like are there any consequences for being over the cap then really? And they’ll be allowed to just be way over the cap next year as well?


NBA is a soft cap that allows you to go over the salary cap in a number of ways but mainly resigning your own players using the “Bird rule” to exceed the salary cap. Can also take on additional money in trades, picks and mid level exceptions. Only deterrence is the luxury cap penalties which is only financials.

It’s why you always hope the Knicks get in a position to be good with their own players because Dolan has never cared spending and the luxury tax won’t bother him. Hopefully one day soon.
Who was the person on BBI who was screaming from the  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/11/2021 10:22 am : link
mountaintop before that draft that the Knicks should take Donovan Mitchell? I recall it was one person in particular. The craziest thing about Mitchell is he’s only 6-1. Maybe it’s the muscle or his game, but he seems a lot taller than that.
RE: Who was the person on BBI who was screaming from the  
adamg : 6/11/2021 10:28 am : link
In comment 15284522 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
mountaintop before that draft that the Knicks should take Donovan Mitchell? I recall it was one person in particular. The craziest thing about Mitchell is he’s only 6-1. Maybe it’s the muscle or his game, but he seems a lot taller than that.


What GMEN46?
What = Was it  
adamg : 6/11/2021 10:28 am : link
Losing my mind
What's  
Jon in NYC : 6/11/2021 10:31 am : link
the opposite of a bat signal?
RE: Who was the person on BBI who was screaming from the  
Heisenberg : 6/11/2021 10:32 am : link
In comment 15284522 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
mountaintop before that draft that the Knicks should take Donovan Mitchell? I recall it was one person in particular. The craziest thing about Mitchell is he’s only 6-1. Maybe it’s the muscle or his game, but he seems a lot taller than that.



Don't remember who it was here, but I do remember that happened.

The good news is that the guys in the league who were doing that now work for the Knicks.
Nah GMEN46 was all over Malik Monk.  
bceagle05 : 6/11/2021 10:39 am : link
Never shut up about him.

*ducks for cover*
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