Was hoping this would not happen so quickly but it has and now we see hoe thr Knicks take that next step. Plenty of ways for this team to go and i am sure we will analyze and throw out ideas and over analyze every single option.
First off i am not taking 5 games in the playoffs over what we saw for 72 games. Does it suck? absolutrly but that dorsnt change my opinion on Randle or Rj or Thibs.
Randle is a building block, is he a number 1? no but we never thought he was, he is a 2 or in a perfect world a 3, same with Rj, Rj had his ups and downs and i was definitely one to always call out his downs but he improved a lot this season and gave you more hope for him than after his rookie deal..
As for the Vets on this team, Rose should be back as the back up point. He is clearly not a stsrter and we saw he got burnt out. Id like to see Burks back on the right deal, Bullock if he is coming back as a back up on a 1 or 2 year deal..
Taj i would love back as the 3rd center, Noel it depends on Mitch, i dont think you bring back both..
For the offseason there are a number of scenarios we habe already talkrd about
Lowry and Derozan, while trading fkr a star was mentioned by Jon in NYC..The lerfect way to do this is Lowry and derozan taking 2 year deals to play with Randle and thr star whoever it is..
Kawhi and trade for a star, this is a scenario that comes into play if Clippers lose game 6, Kawhi comes Knicks most likely will have a deal lined up for his running mate moving Randle the 3rd option..
We have seen Bradley Beal already stokr the flames, hopefully some guys decide it is time to move on...
I would love to bring Rose back as the backup point along with someone like Lonzo or Lowry. I actually would prefer Lonzo as he is much much younger and he is an improving player but I would be happy with Lowry.
Aside from bringing back Rose, I could see them trying to resign two of Burks, Bullock and Noel.
Either way nice job by Knicks signing pelle and the European pg to non gurantees deals those can be very useful in trade scenarios.
Given this is a long shot I also interested in potentially trading for Sexton at the right price. Trae young matured quickly if Sexton can grow up he has all the talent you could want in a PG.
Same with Portland and CJ/Lillard. Obviously Lillard would be amazing but CJ is probably far more likely to be dealt.
I would love to bring Rose back as the backup point along with someone like Lonzo or Lowry. I actually would prefer Lonzo as he is much much younger and he is an improving player but I would be happy with Lowry.
Aside from bringing back Rose, I could see them trying to resign two of Burks, Bullock and Noel.
No one was coming here that off season, do i think it is likely? absolutely not..
If they lose i give it a 15% chance lol.
I will say Kawhi's uncle is a knicks fan, lives in new york and has Kawhi's ear, i dont know if he has a relationship with Wes
Kawhi is the dream and the only guy id go all in for. I think there is a tiny chance he leaves if they lose. I mean i dont see how the clippers get significantly better. That said it seems he wanted to be in LA so he might just stick it out.
I like lowry and think he is realistic on a shorter reasonable deal. Knowing the NBA a guy like Derozen is still getting a pretty big deal, like at least 4/80 and im not giving him that.
Knicks should be in on any trade candidates, but i do feel like this offseason is more a stop gap. Sign a guy like lowry, hope RJ, Obi and IQ take solid steps and then see what happens with the draft where we have basically 3 firsts to use or trade.
I think they try and trade for a fuy before the draft and then go into tbe offseaaon with a star already on the roster
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after the game, DRose mentioned he wants to be back but the Knicks may "have big plans" that would prevent that. I think Leon Rose is definitely going to kick the tires on every disgruntled star possible. We'll see if he can land one. Kwahi is the better player but my dream would be Lillard, mainly because I really love to watch him play.
I think they try and trade for a fuy before the draft and then go into tbe offseaaon with a star already on the roster
Yep I'm not saying AD wanted to come here, and maybe he was always going to the Lakers, but if we traded for him before that draft I think that off season plays out a lot differently but I think we were too focused on landing 2 big FA's and didnt want to tie up the space . The Knicks should not shy away at all from the trade market before the draft and free agency this year. If we make some power moves I think the possibility of tying up Randle to a 4/100 mill.extension greatens.
Gone: Elfrid, Noel (will want to get paid), Frank (19 million FA hold LOL)
Cannot over pay: Burks, Bullock, Taj - i think they bring back bullock and let burks walk. Taj most likely back at low #
Should be back at midlevel: Rose
Extend option: Mitch (1.8 million, no brainer)
Lonzo is most likely FA match. This team needs a PG very badly and with his size he's a good fit for potential IQ backcourt pairing. Rest of the cap space should be used as they did last year - sparingly and with zero long term commitments.
I'm not sold on Barrett at all. He's a hard worker and grinder but I just never saw any elite ability in his play. I consider him a good trade chip, not necessarily because of his ability or potential, just the fact that he's on his rookie deal. It's just the Knicks' luck that they got the 3rd pick in a 2 player draft. Some years, the 3rd pick gets you Doncic, Beal, Embiid, Tatum. Unfortunately, we got Barrett.
If the Knicks swing and miss on a star player again this offseason, I think the playoffs are a 50/50 proposition next year.
Their interior defense was exposed
The Knicks play the three as well as any team but they are killed in the paint
Young and the Hawks had no fear of coming down the middle
The other problem was on offense Randell was double and triple teamed as no one feared the Knicks centers
The Knicks need another point guard as Rose played great but he cannot play extended minutes
lastly the Knicks need another scoring threat preferably not a spot up shooter but someone who can create his own shots
As long as the Knicks do not run an set offense they will rely on players who can create their own shots
It would be great if all three players were premium players but at least two need to be
Lastly the Knicks should attempt to trade up into the top 5 in the draft , preferably top 3
The drop off after the top 5 is dramatic
They have the assets to do this and should be able to fill one of their positions of need
I agree with this. Despite the poor series, Randle is still a plus player/person in the NBA and certainly worth 4/100 or thereabouts. He has a good chance of living up to or outperforming that level of contract if we can get another star here to open things up for him.
I'm not sold on Barrett at all. He's a hard worker and grinder but I just never saw any elite ability in his play. I consider him a good trade chip, not necessarily because of his ability or potential, just the fact that he's on his rookie deal. It's just the Knicks' luck that they got the 3rd pick in a 2 player draft. Some years, the 3rd pick gets you Doncic, Beal, Embiid, Tatum. Unfortunately, we got Barrett.
If the Knicks swing and miss on a star player again this offseason, I think the playoffs are a 50/50 proposition next year.
So the Knicks are not going to improve the roster at all? they are not coming back with the same exact team..
If you want to be pessimistic you can, but id be shocked if they dont improve this team
Two things.
First: Lets not underestimate the Hawks. They're a really good team and I think will give the Sixers a lot of issues.
Also, there's just no way we're not attractive to FAs right now. After the fan showing out, a good young core, a good coach, huge media market, and now, more importantly, they just finished 4th in the East with basically a rag tag group of one year contracts and Julius Randle.
They'll definitely be an attractive destination.
I think he looks around. Warriors, Mavs, Miami and the Knicks. Wouldn't you? Or maybe he doesn't really care and just wants to live there. But I do think he needs a playmaker and would certainly seek that.
CJ and Dame aren't getting younger. Powell is going to leave this offseason. Covington is already 30 and he and Nurk will both be FAs after next year. Melo's probably gone.
There were already rumors of firing the coach, they still have all their picks.
It's just tough to see them getting better with this group.
I anticipate Frank will sign with one of these 6 teams and play a prominent role off the bench, Greg is going to lose his mind:
Lakers
Clippers
Golden state
Milwaukee
Nets
Mavs
I anticipate Frank will sign with one of these 6 teams and play a prominent role off the bench, Greg is going to lose his mind:
Lakers
Clippers
Golden state
Milwaukee
Nets
Mavs
If they give him the qualifying offer he becomes restricted..
They can not extend the qualifying offer and he becomes an unrestricted free agent
My sense from the games I saw, and reading what others who know a lot more than I do, is that the Knicks need to be careful not to overpay for their players this offseason. They shouldn’t hesitate to let players go, including many of Noel, Burks, Bullock, Gibson, and Frank.
Despite his poor showing in the playoffs, Randle is likely to get a big deal, especially since he had a very good regular season. Barrett is also only 20, and there were some positive moments this year from Obi and Quickley. Rose and Mitchell should be retained.
I also agree that the Knicks need PG who can drive and dish, coupled with at least one more solid shooter. A good PG who can regularly breakdown the defense will also help provide better ball movement. Weren’t the Knicks fourth in three point shooting this season? The Hawks were also 1-14 from three last night at one point. A PG would really help Randle.
I don’t see Kawhi, Lillard, or any other star coming to NY at this time.
There is hope.
We're in a position to get in on the action this summer, so we need as much action as possible.
The Knicks will be probably be scared to death to lose him.Because their future draft picks are looking less and less attractive.Free Agency is the big game hunt that results in pheasant,quail,and wild turkey's stealing their guns and shooting back at the Knicks.
The trade route is also nothing but a lot of fantasy.
So with that said,maybe we should have been chanting MIA,instead of MVP.
I agree completely with this, and your other thoughts. Randle/RJ/IQ/Mitch/Obi/Rose should be kept (barring some blockbuster trade), and MAYBE Burks or Bullock if the price is reasonable, but not both. Goodbye to the rest.
I'd package the two firsts to move up (even it's just three or four spots) to get the best guard/wing I could, and draft a big with Detroit second rounder who can replace Taj/Noel - those guys are always around in the 30s.
Benching Payton was the right move but it seemed to be very disruptive, for whatever reason. Maybe just because Rose wore down with the extra minutes and neither Burks nor Quickley is really a point guard.
They are nowhere near the upper tier of teams, they are still a rebuilding team that is ahead of schedule, but they shouldn't have been as bad as they looked the last three games. Clearly, though, they're going to have to add two elite players and some very talented role players to reach that upper tier.
I'm not sold on Mitchell Robinson, mostly because I haven't seen much development in his offensive game. He seems content to be what he is. What he is, well, that's pretty good, but probably not good enough to be a starter on a top team. He's still young, but he's a weird dude and he seems to think he's better than he is.
I have high hopes for Obi Toppin and Emanuel Quickley. Quickley seemed to wear down and looked like a rookie over the last month after being much more effective mid-season. Toppin is improving but needs a ton of off-season work.
I'm not optimistic that the Knicks have the draft assets to either draft significant upgrades (that would be a huge stroke of luck at around 20 overall, never mind 33) or to move up to the elite part of the draft. Package those picks with Barrett and/or Toppin and/or Robinson to get a star or a premium pick? Huge roll of the dice. May be necessary.
Anyone else interested in Sexton for knox and 2 firsts?
I think Rose would know somewhat of what the Knicks plans are because of how close he is to Wes...
He probably doesnt know specific players but i am sure he has tlaked to Wes about the future for him with new york..
Ooh, good find. I'd love Norm too.
Where did you see that? I went through his last two articles and didn't see that posted.
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who would not be a bad target in FA.
Where did you see that? I went through his last two articles and didn't see that posted.
It was a few days ago. In typical Berman fashion he linked an article from before the deadline about Powell that doesn't mention it at all.
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In comment 15279320 bceagle05 said:
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who would not be a bad target in FA.
Where did you see that? I went through his last two articles and didn't see that posted.
It was a few days ago. In typical Berman fashion he linked an article from before the deadline about Powell that doesn't mention it at all. Link - ( New Window )
Lmao thanks. Berman has some good scoops but is generally a dumbass.
We have a big advantage in being one of the few teams with cap room, so not many bidders.
Definitely. A lot of cap room but a lot of holes. Need basically an entire backcourt and most of a bench.
The wild card will be the trade market. Between the 5 picks over the next 3 years, the young players and the cap room, if anyone wants a trade the Knicks should be right there.
The one thing he doesn't do that we'd still need is a true play maker. Need to pair his addition with a true PG.
The one thing he doesn't do that we'd still need is a true play maker. Need to pair his addition with a true PG.
He'd fit very nicely next to Lonzo. Norm is undersized for a 2 so that would allow Lonzo to defend bigger guards.
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is a great example of someone who you would want to pay in FA. In his prime, has always been a role player but with great efficiency and you'd like to see what he could do in a featured role. Could really blossom into a 23-25 ppg scorer if he took more than 13 shots per game. CJ McCollum for example takes 19.
The one thing he doesn't do that we'd still need is a true play maker. Need to pair his addition with a true PG.
He'd fit very nicely next to Lonzo. Norm is undersized for a 2 so that would allow Lonzo to defend bigger guards.
He's short, but he has a 6'11 wingspan and is strong. He's actually been playing largely SF for both the Blazers and Raptors.
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Fournier looked terrible with Boston every time I saw him, but that might’ve been the after affects of COVID. Apparently he really struggled with it.
you get length and versatility in both of those as starting guards- and age on their side vs. the dinosaurs.
the knicks trade assets outside of the picks are still questionable. there is a reason a 20yr old 3rd overall pick is even deemed available by fans, and Toppin couldnt crack a lineup that had no depth. knox they already castrated- so its the picks mostly
The good news is that there are easily close to a dozen ways that the Knick should be stronger next year, including more experience for Quickley and Toppin, an add of a 2 if not a one, a better starting PG, better heathy depth at C, at least some help out of the draft picks, Barrett continuing to progress, and way less necessary PT for Randle and Rose. Get a starting PG, and Rose becomes a wonderful--and well-rested--sixth man at pg. Which, of course is where he bleongs.
Btw, in terms of the regular season, if you recall back to the first two months, we lost a number of very close games in a short period of time. The March/April Knicks would have won a number of those, adding to their regular season record.
you get length and versatility in both of those as starting guards- and age on their side vs. the dinosaurs.
the knicks trade assets outside of the picks are still questionable. there is a reason a 20yr old 3rd overall pick is even deemed available by fans, and Toppin couldnt crack a lineup that had no depth. knox they already castrated- so its the picks mostly
Toppin didn't crack the lineup because Randle let the league in minutes per game. It's just Thibs' style. He played very well in limited minutes later in the season and during the playoffs.
Barrett is deemed available by fans in trades for a superstar. Either you're a 20 year old burgeoning superstar like Zion or fans are willing to move you for one. It's not a knock on him.
There aren't too many teams that are in position to land a star via trade like the Knicks are given the combination of picks, cap space and young players. There are some but the list is a short one.
I think the Knicks have the 3rd best assets in the NBA, Warriors first with Wiseman and Twolves pick but they have cap issues..
Okc for the simple fact they just have a ton of picks..
for the Knicks they have young players, drsft picks and cap space
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A quality pg.
A big, good-shooting 3.
A stretch 4-5 who can score/shoot.
We should be able to get just about all of that, even if we don't get a true #1. Having 5 quality starters and talented depth from pg to center would make this a much better team. It's achievable. Compare a team with 5 quality starters to what we did most of the year, with Payton starting, and no shooting capability at the 5 whatsoever, either first or second team.
I agree with what you are saying but I also feel if the Knicks had healthy centers then Capella would have been forced to respect the lob a lot more which would have cut into his ability to clog the lane. Also, Mitch is a better rebounder (in total stats and on a per 40 minute rate basis) which would have help prevent some of the Hawk's offensive rebounds which killed the Knicks.
A quality pg.
A big, good-shooting 3.
A stretch 4-5 who can score/shoot.
We should be able to get just about all of that, even if we don't get a true #1. Having 5 quality starters and talented depth from pg to center would make this a much better team. It's achievable. Compare a team with 5 quality starters to what we did most of the year, with Payton starting, and no shooting capability at the 5 whatsoever, either first or second team.
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In the modern NBA you need a stretch 5. By not having a 5 who could shoot we couldn’t get Capella away from the basket. This clogged all drives and made are pick and roll ineffective. I would love a PG but would like a 5 who could shoot is what really killed us.
I agree with what you are saying but I also feel if the Knicks had healthy centers then Capella would have been forced to respect the lob a lot more which would have cut into his ability to clog the lane. Also, Mitch is a better rebounder (in total stats and on a per 40 minute rate basis) which would have help prevent some of the Hawk's offensive rebounds which killed the Knicks.
Had Mitch gotten hurt a day or two earlier it's entirely possible that the Knicks would've gotten aggressive with Drummond on a big one year deal. As much as I don't like Drummond's game, I do believe he would've made a pretty big difference in the series given how badly Capela abused the Knicks in the paint and on the glass.
Craziness
Bit of an odd fit with Randle, for sure. I do wonder if Collins could fit next to Randle as a starting SF.
Craziness
If he doesn't want him we can take him.
Bit of an odd fit with Randle, for sure. I do wonder if Collins could fit next to Randle as a starting SF.
He's not really a SF. He can't really create for himself and he's not a good perimeter defender. You'd basically be paying him big money to play out of position and he reportedly wants BIG money.
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basically said no guarantee and players get older and lose value and that even Joe Montana played for another team...
Craziness
If he doesn't want him we can take him.
This is simply preparing the fan base for the possibility that Steph walks next offseason since he’s probably refusing any extensions that have been offered.
Craziness
"Light years" ahead of the rest of the league. One of the biggest douche owners out there.
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In comment 15279476 nygiants16 said:
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basically said no guarantee and players get older and lose value and that even Joe Montana played for another team...
Craziness
If he doesn't want him we can take him.
This is simply preparing the fan base for the possibility that Steph walks next offseason since he’s probably refusing any extensions that have been offered.
There should be no issue, you offer curry the max and you dont think twice
Craziness
I can't envision Steph in another uni. He should be a Warrior for life. He means too much to the Bay & that fan base. Also, Lacob is a jackass.
what is his max?
If the Knicks can get JR to sign a max extension this summer, it would be for just over 4/100, not even close to his max number as a FA next year (something like 4/140).
I do wonder if there is any appetite to decline JR's guarantee for next year and get creative on a new contract (i.e., pay him more than 20m but on a declining number or something).
*Knicks fans
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basically said no guarantee and players get older and lose value and that even Joe Montana played for another team...
Craziness
I can't envision Steph in another uni. He should be a Warrior for life. He means too much to the Bay & that fan base. Also, Lacob is a jackass.
This is nonsense. Steph should have been a Knick from the beginning. One freakin pick, damn it! And he at the time wanted to be a Knick.
My mini rant aside, I compare this to when LeBron left Cleveland the first time. People, Cleveland fans in particular acted like it was their birth right to keep him forever, Why? They got to enjoy him and reap the benefits of his greatness for many years, This is a business. Steph doesn’t owe Warrior fans anything. Or “the Bay Area” for that matter. If he or the team decide it’s best to move on, life will go on. Great players change teams all the time. Nobody on the planet will feel bad for the Bay Area If Steph leaves. They’ve been able to live a fan life that most of us on this planet never have and never will with their basketball team. So I’m sorry if I’m not shedding tears at Steph leaving. Those poor fans will somehow get through it.
Lack of a stretch 5 was a big problem but we also had other issues. Namely, so many one dimensional (or largely worthless) players on offense. Bullock looked so uncomfortable whenever he had to dribble; he can really only catch and shoot or shoot after 1-2 dribbles at most. Elf can't shoot at all and Frank can only shoot but do nothing else. Both centers basically are a black hole on offense. I love Rose and his shot was good during the series but nobody is scared of him shooting from 3. The only multidimensional players we had on offense are Randle, RJ, Rose (although again he's not a great 3 shooter), Burks, and IQ. Obi showed flashes of being able to get to the bucket which was a great surprise, but who knows what he really is.
We cannot go into next season with so many guys who are either 0s on offense or can do only 1 thing.
I'm still glad Eli only was a Giant.
There is no reasonnfor Lillard to stay there except for blind loyalty, 4 of the last 5 years lost first round, capped out, no 1st round pick this year..
signed long term so who knows if Portland would even honor a trade request
The year after is the big FA class.
IMO they keep their cap room and sign a bunch of one year deals again.
Move up in the draft for a PG.
Resign Taj,Rose,and Bullock.
Next year's trade deadline could be crazy with as many big names up for FA.
Please come to NY Dame. Please.
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"how long do i stay dedicated"
Please come to NY Dame. Please.
He may ask out, question is will Portland trade him and what would they want?
Do they want win now players or do they conpletely blow it up and want young players and draft picks?
Lack of a stretch 5 was a big problem but we also had other issues. Namely, so many one dimensional (or largely worthless) players on offense. Bullock looked so uncomfortable whenever he had to dribble; he can really only catch and shoot or shoot after 1-2 dribbles at most. Elf can't shoot at all and Frank can only shoot but do nothing else. Both centers basically are a black hole on offense. I love Rose and his shot was good during the series but nobody is scared of him shooting from 3. The only multidimensional players we had on offense are Randle, RJ, Rose (although again he's not a great 3 shooter), Burks, and IQ. Obi showed flashes of being able to get to the bucket which was a great surprise, but who knows what he really is.
We cannot go into next season with so many guys who are either 0s on offense or can do only 1 thing.
Christian Wood would have been that stretch 5 that many on here wanted in the offseason (I know he got injured this year). He was on fire when healthy and hitting 3's at a good %.
They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.
I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.
He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.
Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.
I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.
But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.
They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.
I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.
He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.
Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.
I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.
But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.
Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch
Depending on FA, could roll out a lineup of something like CJ/RJ/Norm Powell/Randle/Mitch with a second unit of Rose/IQ/Luca Vildoza/Taj/first rounder.
Depending on FA, could roll out a lineup of something like CJ/RJ/Norm Powell/Randle/Mitch with a second unit of Rose/IQ/Luca Vildoza/Taj/first rounder.
Mcollum is not a point guard
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in a great position to blow it up. They have all their picks, Lillard, McCollum, RoCo and Nurkic will all bring back nice returns.
They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.
I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.
He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.
Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.
I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.
But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.
Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch
It sounds like the salary cap will be at 112 mil. If you waive everyone's bird rights, waive Pelle's unguaranteed contract, and include Noah's dead cap (FACK), that puts them at 47.5 mil, so the baseline is 64.5 mil in space.
Lillard's salary next year is 35% of the cap, so lets say 39 mil. Trading just Obi (5.5) and Knox (5.8), drops that down 28 mil, so they'd have 36.5 left. They'd probably have to add RJ, so that's another 8.6, and they'd have 45.1 mil left in space.
So yeah, you're right. Still have plenty of room to add another max and even a couple more guys after that.
I mean it's worth asking: Does a Lillard/Randle duo attract Kawhi too? If so you have to get it done at all costs.
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In comment 15279714 Jon in NYC said:
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in a great position to blow it up. They have all their picks, Lillard, McCollum, RoCo and Nurkic will all bring back nice returns.
They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.
I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.
He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.
Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.
I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.
But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.
Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch
It sounds like the salary cap will be at 112 mil. If you waive everyone's bird rights, waive Pelle's unguaranteed contract, and include Noah's dead cap (FACK), that puts them at 47.5 mil, so the baseline is 64.5 mil in space.
Lillard's salary next year is 35% of the cap, so lets say 39 mil. Trading just Obi (5.5) and Knox (5.8), drops that down 28 mil, so they'd have 36.5 left. They'd probably have to add RJ, so that's another 8.6, and they'd have 45.1 mil left in space.
So yeah, you're right. Still have plenty of room to add another max and even a couple more guys after that.
I mean it's worth asking: Does a Lillard/Randle duo attract Kawhi too? If so you have to get it done at all costs.
yeah plus your trading picks so that will add space as well..
Question at that point would be, do you go for the 3rd max or do you add a bunch of pieces around that duo and have a deep team?
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In comment 15279716 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15279714 Jon in NYC said:
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in a great position to blow it up. They have all their picks, Lillard, McCollum, RoCo and Nurkic will all bring back nice returns.
They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.
I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.
He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.
Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.
I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.
But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.
Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch
It sounds like the salary cap will be at 112 mil. If you waive everyone's bird rights, waive Pelle's unguaranteed contract, and include Noah's dead cap (FACK), that puts them at 47.5 mil, so the baseline is 64.5 mil in space.
Lillard's salary next year is 35% of the cap, so lets say 39 mil. Trading just Obi (5.5) and Knox (5.8), drops that down 28 mil, so they'd have 36.5 left. They'd probably have to add RJ, so that's another 8.6, and they'd have 45.1 mil left in space.
So yeah, you're right. Still have plenty of room to add another max and even a couple more guys after that.
I mean it's worth asking: Does a Lillard/Randle duo attract Kawhi too? If so you have to get it done at all costs.
yeah plus your trading picks so that will add space as well..
Question at that point would be, do you go for the 3rd max or do you add a bunch of pieces around that duo and have a deep team?
I mean honestly you could do a bit of both.
Say Kawhi signs for 35 mil. That leaves you with 10. Bring back Rose, bring back Taj, bring back Bullock with the Room exception. Still have Vildoza too who is a question mark.
Mitch-Randle-Kawhi-Bullock-Lillard
Taj-Rose-IQ-Vildoza + probably need one or two more solid vet pickups somehow or draft picks.
i dont know even Nurkic alluded to not wanting to be there anymore..
Stotts i think will be fired, team has plateaued and they really have no way of getting better
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Than NBA GM's are. I'm not so sure Portland is so quick to do it as you guys think. After a year of no hate revenue I'm not believing they want to blow it up and kill their attendance next year as well. Yes they have been ousted in the 1st rd the past few years, but they did make the 3rd rd a few years ago, their key guys have at least a few years left in their primes. The west is kind of in flux a bit. I could see them dealing Mccollum, and I'd be in on that, but Dame is a pipe dream I can't allow myself to get sucked into. I think its just as possible they view themselves as a Phoenix or Utah in waiting. Who knows I guess we'll see.
i dont know even Nurkic alluded to not wanting to be there anymore..
Stotts i think will be fired, team has plateaued and they really have no way of getting better
You could be right. Like I said who knows? It was a bitter loss last night. They were in total control late in the 3rd and it all fell apart.
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In comment 15279732 Stu11 said:
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Than NBA GM's are. I'm not so sure Portland is so quick to do it as you guys think. After a year of no hate revenue I'm not believing they want to blow it up and kill their attendance next year as well. Yes they have been ousted in the 1st rd the past few years, but they did make the 3rd rd a few years ago, their key guys have at least a few years left in their primes. The west is kind of in flux a bit. I could see them dealing Mccollum, and I'd be in on that, but Dame is a pipe dream I can't allow myself to get sucked into. I think its just as possible they view themselves as a Phoenix or Utah in waiting. Who knows I guess we'll see.
i dont know even Nurkic alluded to not wanting to be there anymore..
Stotts i think will be fired, team has plateaued and they really have no way of getting better
You could be right. Like I said who knows? It was a bitter loss last night. They were in total control late in the 3rd and it all fell apart.
absolutely we dont know...there was a lot if frustration after game 5 to
I love CJ and if the Blazers were blowing it up for cap space or willing to take less, then ok. But I don't really see it otherwise.
For what it's worth, I've read a few Blazer blogs who think they will blow it up.
I love CJ and if the Blazers were blowing it up for cap space or willing to take less, then ok. But I don't really see it otherwise.
Yeah I'd rather have Norm as a FA than CJ as a trade. The CJ trade makes more sense for like the Lakers, or Celtics, or Nuggets even, a team against the cap that has some salary and assets to move.
OKC a few years ago is a good comp for where they're at. The issue with running it back actually is financial for them. They just paid the league's biggest luxury tax bill and there's no way for them to avoid it again while improving the roster. That's a big pill to swallow for a team that has been eliminated in the first round in 4 of the last 5 years.
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I feel like the Knicks would probably rather sign Powell than trade assets for McCollum. That CJ contract is not great. Wouldn't you rather get Powell for less and hold on to the picks and Obi or Q?
I love CJ and if the Blazers were blowing it up for cap space or willing to take less, then ok. But I don't really see it otherwise.
Yeah I'd rather have Norm as a FA than CJ as a trade. The CJ trade makes more sense for like the Lakers, or Celtics, or Nuggets even, a team against the cap that has some salary and assets to move.
I actually think it's reasonable to believe that they trade CJ and resign Powell. They have no avenues to improve the roster right now and despite having Powell's bird rights, the luxury tax is likely to make it very difficult to resign him with CJ and Dame under contract. But if you trade CJ and get some cap relief and players/trade assets that's probably preferable to running back mostly the same team san Powell.
But its easier said than done to trade a 1st team all nba player. It's honestly probably more a question if Lillard wants out?
And I know this is beyond a pipe dream, or maybe happens somewhere thats not the Knicks, but I think Kawhi would 100% be attracted to play with a true point like Lillard.
Similar news of Kawhi and Dame to NYK might just kill me.
For Knicks If you have a chance at kawhi the move is to sign Lowry. The problem that kawhi has is he got his second star in George but they do not have a well rounded team and they don’t have great depth. If Knicks trade eveything for lillard ie mitch, Quickley, Rj and all their picks. They have a big 3 with Randle I guess but still lacking talent at other positions and no cap space. Kawhi won the title by being the clear number 1 and playing with a really good balanced team.
I think the following team would be really good:
Lowry
Kawhi
Barrett
Randle
Mitch
Quickley
Rose
Davion mitchell - move up on draft to get him
Knox - they will have to play him next year
Toppin
Gibson or other vet
Bullock or burks
Ring chasing vet, maybe noel if you have room.
European point guard
2nd rd pick
Then you still have caproom in 2022 to get lavine or Beal. In this scenario you can still try a mid season trade for lavine ir Beal and maybe you get it done with just RJ and picks.
Davion mitchell hopefully becomes your pg of the future.in this scenario the Knicks second team could be really good. assuming continued improvements by Quickley and Toppin.
Not saying it's a bad idea to try for one or both of them, just trying to picture the longer term.
Not saying it's a bad idea to try for one or both of them, just trying to picture the longer term.
If this were the NFL I would maybe be concerned. But a superstar having just turned 30 in the NBA is not of concern to me. I believe Kawhi and Dame still each have a few years left in their primes-- It's not like either of them have been plagued by injuries in their careers. The purpose of any organization is to win a championship-- If you have a chance to get 2 top 10 talents together for 3-4 years you have to take your chances IMO.
Kawhi + Dame w/ Randle as a 3rd option is probably our only hope of competing w/ the big 3 in Brooklyn for the foreseeable future. And I actually really like our chances against the Nets given that Kawhi and Dame are 2 of the most clutch performers of this era (hopefully Randle can get his shit together in the postseason).
I doubt we'd be able to keep RJ in the trade for Dame but if we could somehow then another leap for him this offseason similar to what he had last year and suddenly we have 4 all stars on this team with 2 of them being top 10 talents.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for Kawhi. I saw a tweet last year (linked below) pointing out that Kawhi has saved the NBA 3 separate times: he 1) ended the big 3 in Miami, 2) ended the Warriors super team, and 3) refused to go to the Lakers and hence ended that super team before it even started (and instead decided to do his own thing with the Clippers in the same damn building and town as the Lakers). The tweet says “Kawhi is the balance in the Force, the real-life last Jedi” lol
Dame and Kawhi strike me as 2 very similar people.
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Knicks win 1 champiosnhip in the 5 years they are here, when they leave the stink that this team has had is long gone, you dont think more would want to come and follow in their footsteps?
Yeha they are 30, and they may not be here for 10 years, but your now set the standard for players to come here and team up
It would be what the plab was to build around Lillard and Randle, if you want another max then Rj probably has to be in the deal
I love how passionate my fellow Knicks fans are but there are truly a lot of stupid ones out there.
Absurd shooting percentage for Kawhi, and they've needed every bit of his scoring
Rose deserves more and should get it. Give that to Bullock.
Just to clarify Adam the plan would be to trade for Dame and then sign Kawhi. We wouldn’t have to trade for both of them. We’d hope Kawhi opts out and signs w/ us.
The thing is: I think we’d need both of them to know the other is coming in order to want to come here— which one of them would come here first lol? I’m hoping Dame first would push for Portland to trade him here (a la a Harden situation). I think Kawhi would then be attracted to come. Don’t ask me why, I just imagine Kawhi would love to play w/ Lillard.
I could see Dame wanting to come here after seeing the Garden go crazy in the playoffs — he lives for pressure and big moments and the big stage. He feeds off of it. Portland just doesn’t seem like the place for a guy like that. I think he’s also very loyal and not a quitter so that’s what’s keeping him there, but based on what he’s been saying the last couple days it feels like the desperation to win and not waste his career will prevail (especially now that he’s turned 30, who among us didnt take a hard look at things when we turned 30 ha) . Also — knowing how serious the culture is here about winning and hard work. He wants to be on a team where he knows all 15 guys and the coaching staff are putting in overtime and it’s not just him doing it. Dame needs to in the next few years, but he doesn’t want to just join a team like the Lakers and be Lebrons sidekick. Knicks seem like an ideal situation to me.
Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard
Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox
I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.
Allen
LeVert
Prince
Kurucs
3 1st round picks
4 1st round pick swaps
And the Nets had all the leverage in that deal because Harden wanted out and specifically only wanted the Nets. I think we have to hope for a similar development with Lillard and NYK
Starters:
Dame
Bullock
Derozan
Randle
Mitch
2nd unit:
Rose
Quickley
Burks
Obi
Taj
I honestly think both units would be absolutely lethal offensively.
(Taj will come cheaper than Noel and I thought he gave us a way better chance in the Atlanta series— I loved his effort, his experience was clearly valuable as hell. Btw what do you guys think of giving Dwight Howard a 1 year deal? We need a guy who can rebound, has some bulk and athleticism and won’t let Capela make him his bitch— looking forward to seeing how they fare against each other in this series especially with Embiid being hurt.)
Good player, but 18 mil per year scares me as does his injury history. My gut is that we could use our cap room more effectively.
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Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard
Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox
Portland would hang up. No way you're getting an all-nba caliber player and only giving up one of the RJ/IQ/Obi group.
Also, Frank can't be traded - he's not under contract. Even if he could, he has minimal value. And Knox has negative value.
Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard
Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox
I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.
I'm with Enzo. I don't think that does it for Port. Frank is a RFA. Knox is trash.
If they ask for RJ/Obi/IQ/Mitch and 4 firsts, are you down?
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The one that feels most realistic for both sides would be:
Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard
Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox
I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.
I'm with Enzo. I don't think that does it for Port. Frank is a RFA. Knox is trash.
If they ask for RJ/Obi/IQ/Mitch and 4 firsts, are you down?
I mean that's literally everyone other than Julius. I think Obi is a must given that his long term fit next to Randle is in doubt. Beyond that, they can have either IQ and Mitch OR RJ.
It's better than we've been. But a lot less exciting to root for than building through the draft.
Ideally, you'd have a lineup like this:
Dame
Bullock
Kawhi
Randle
Noel
Rose as your sixth man
Is that a championship team?
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The one that feels most realistic for both sides would be:
Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard
Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox
I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.
I'm with Enzo. I don't think that does it for Port. Frank is a RFA. Knox is trash.
If they ask for RJ/Obi/IQ/Mitch and 4 firsts, are you down?
for me it would be rj or IQ..
obi, mitch, 21 1st, 22 1st, 23 dallas 1st and 24 1st
It's better than we've been. But a lot less exciting to root for than building through the draft.
Ideally, you'd have a lineup like this:
Dame
Bullock
Kawhi
Randle
Noel
Rose as your sixth man
Is that a championship team?
They would want the farm, but I'm not sure if I'd give up the farm.
The market for Dame is probably not as robust as one would think. Are the Celtics going to give up Jaylen Brown? Are the Heat going to give up Jimmy or Bam?
If no, who is beating RJ, Obi and picks?
So take off Obi or Mitch or both. You trading IQ/RJ and four firsts?
We need better players, like a whole team of them. Rose is too old, Randle was exposed, RJ may never get there.
It’s unfortunate we missed so many draft picks but we need to keep accumulating. Trading half the roster and all your picks for a star in his prime who will soon to be on the decline aren’t the answer. Hit on your picks and grab more players on the ascent should be the way.
So take off Obi or Mitch or both. You trading IQ/RJ and four firsts?
If they insist on both rj and iq i try to only trade 3 1sts..
I think with a guy like Dame Rj because less valuable so inwould rather deal Rj than IQ
So take off Obi or Mitch or both. You trading IQ/RJ and four firsts?
Yeah I'd do that. Love IQ but he's ultimately a bench guy. Losing RJ sucks but you have to give something of value if you're getting a top 10 player.
We need better players, like a whole team of them. Rose is too old, Randle was exposed, RJ may never get there.
It’s unfortunate we missed so many draft picks but we need to keep accumulating. Trading half the roster and all your picks for a star in his prime who will soon to be on the decline aren’t the answer. Hit on your picks and grab more players on the ascent should be the way.
The Knicks were 4th in the NBA in 3 point field goal percentage..
Rj and Randle both shot over 40% from 3..
The western conference is a different style, they play ablot more wide open and a more finesse game
Both. He's 6'3, not an explosive athlete and not a distributor. I am very skeptical that he can be a starter at PG or SG in the league.
That's not to say he's a bad player, he's not. He'd be an awesome first guard off the bench. Think Lou Williams, Jordan Clarkson, etc.
Saying he is a bench guy is not saying he wont be valuable, he can change games with his shot BUT..
he is not a good enough distributor to be a starting point and i think he is to small to br a 2 guard..
I think he will be valuable just not a starter
Yeah you go with thay Trio, yiu most like have 30 million to fill out the rest of the roster and still have a pretty deep team
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The one that feels most realistic for both sides would be:
Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard
Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox
I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.
I'm with Enzo. I don't think that does it for Port. Frank is a RFA. Knox is trash.
If they ask for RJ/Obi/IQ/Mitch and 4 firsts, are you down?
My bad I don’t know why I thought we could trade an RFA.
Knox is indeed trash but think of him as the Kurucs in the Harden deal. Kurucs was the 4th best player given up and is probably even w/ Knox in terms of current ability, and if anything I think Knox being a recent 9th overall pick he technically has more of a potential upside (not that i think he’s going to ever fulfill that upside but I’m just saying some might argue he still has a little upside— it’s not meant to be much value I mean he’s the lowest value piece in my hypothetical trade but it’s almost like the equivalent of a 2nd round pick I guess).
The main pieces of value in the above are the 4 FRPs + Mitch + IQ.
I think the only way this trade would work is if there was something similar to the Harden situation where Dame publicly said he wanted out and he wanted to go to NY. I don’t want to get into a bidding war w/ other teams and give away everybody but I would love to do a deal IF Dame all of a sudden specifically wants to come be the savior of NY Basketball (funny I will never consider the Nets to count as “NY Basketball” lol).
But it’s really just gonna come down to what Dame wants. The Blazers don’t want to part ways, so in that case we’d have to throw a lot at them to pull Dame away from them. But if Dame starts listening to everyone saying “get out while you can, you’ll never win a championship in Portland, no one wants to go there” and suddenly he wants out, then we have some leverage (as do other teams— but again, Dame’s massive cap number is factored into the ultimate trade value, which no doubt will still be a blockbuster value regardless just not necessarily a completely “future-mortgaging” price so to speak).
Knicks at the very least need to upgrade their PG and SG position..
Preferrably with a star, but i think the star comes via trade and Rj goes out
Knicks at the very least need to upgrade their PG and SG position..
Preferrably with a star, but i think the star comes via trade and Rj goes out
16– I’m intrigued by the fact you’re sounding more and more like you’re looking to trade RJ (as opposed to reluctantly giving him up). Sounds like you’re almost saying you don’t think his style of play and/or his attributes are conducive to winning a title (if I’m reading between the lines correctly which I may not be). Can you expand on that little more? I think the common thought would be “he’s 20, he’s a 3rd overall pick, seems to have a really high ceiling.” But it’s sounding like you’re saying if we’re committing to Randle we should move RJ because he doesn’t fit well, and upgrade our PG/SG to a more conducive fit for Randle. Just curious what your thoughts are.
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when you already have your number 1, Knicks dont..
Knicks at the very least need to upgrade their PG and SG position..
Preferrably with a star, but i think the star comes via trade and Rj goes out
16– I’m intrigued by the fact you’re sounding more and more like you’re looking to trade RJ (as opposed to reluctantly giving him up). Sounds like you’re almost saying you don’t think his style of play and/or his attributes are conducive to winning a title (if I’m reading between the lines correctly which I may not be). Can you expand on that little more? I think the common thought would be “he’s 20, he’s a 3rd overall pick, seems to have a really high ceiling.” But it’s sounding like you’re saying if we’re committing to Randle we should move RJ because he doesn’t fit well, and upgrade our PG/SG to a more conducive fit for Randle. Just curious what your thoughts are.
I havnt been fully on Rj from the beginning, He can have games where he can carry the offense but a lot of nights he is so off and yes he is only 20 and he improved his 3pt shot..
BUT i dont think he fits very well with a star player, he needs the ball in his hands and it takes him a little bit to get into a rhythm, if he doesnt get his touches he is basically useless..
I would like to keep Rj, but if i have a chance to get a star i wont think twice, i just dont think he is a great fit as a 3rd piece because he needs the ball to be effective and when your not one of the first 2 options hard for you to be effective..
I think Randle will be fine off the ball and there will be times in games he can be ball dominant and the other guy is off the ball..
You cant have 3 of those guys..
Randle is so ball dominant because the team has no point guard, during the season he did let Rose run the offense and played off the ball..
I think he will be fine with another guy because he can shoot the 3, he can run the offense, he shoot the midrange, he can post up, he can face up, he can create for others..
Rj can shoot the 3 and drive to the hoop, he can dish when he wants to, he has no midrange game whatsoever..
The problem for Randle in the offense, he had to do everything, he had to create everything, that is why point guard is their biggest need..
Everything was so hard, same shit happened to Melo here
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Do you mean as of today or going forward? It seems like he has great upside given what he showed as a rookie. He can't be a good starter someday?
Saying he is a bench guy is not saying he wont be valuable, he can change games with his shot BUT..
he is not a good enough distributor to be a starting point and i think he is to small to br a 2 guard..
I think he will be valuable just not a starter
Said it about a month back I see UQ's ceiling as a Vinnie the microwave Johnson type guy. Instant offense off the bench who can play as much as 25-30 minutes on a given night depending how hot he is.
Damn. That game was something else. I picked the Nets to win and thought the amount of “Bucks will beat the Nets” talk was ridiculous. But I did not expect that with Harden out 43 seconds into the game the Nets would roll like that. Super impressive showing by everyone on that team. For the amount that the Knicks were calling themselves the “big 15” in sort of tongue in cheek fashion, the Nets really are a deep team that plays together and plays hard.
My thought on the Nets/Bucks series was more talent will always win out in the playoffs, save for a few factors like: 1) injuries , 2) a wide gap in playoff experience, or 3) the more skilled team choking in the big moment or the less skilled team rising to the occasion. Nets big 3 certainly has certainly played deep into the playoffs before and/or won championships and they’ve all made clutch shots at various points in their careers, so the one thing that could stop them is injuries. But then Harden goes out and the whole team rises to the occasion and takes care of business. The non-big-3 for Brooklyn was way better than the non-big-3 for the Bucks, and by a wide margin— I wouldn’t have expected that.
A bit odd that the Bucks didn’t challenge the Nets in the paint more, but honestly Giannis didn’t have as easy of a time as I expected driving to the basket.
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I’m not even bashing Melo (okay maybe just a little bit). Melo was 10x the offensive talent that Randle is, and don’t get me wrong Randle did tremendous things to improve his shot this year and that’s why he put up numbers like he did, but in the playoffs when push came to shove his shot was not nearly good enough to make up for the fact he simply does not have the talent to create shots out of nothing that the GOATs have.
The problem for Randle in the offense, he had to do everything, he had to create everything, that is why point guard is their biggest need..
Everything was so hard, same shit happened to Melo here
All good points you’ve made.
Dame to me fills so many of our main needs in one guy: 1) a true PG. 2) an elite scorer to take pressure off of Randle and RJ. 3) a superstar whose presence alone attracts other stars and role players to want to come here. I think we should start thinking of what we’d be willing to give up to fulfill all of those needs in one guy.
Then again it does sound more and more like Dame is willing to work it out with Portland. And he doesn’t seem like the type of guy to change his mind every 2 weeks.
I don’t see any FA PG I want this year so Lowry and Rose bridges us the next 2 years while we find the PG of the future we really like. Both are playoff-winning and Championship caliber PGs. In the playoffs I want those 2 dudes facilitating our offense and calming everyone down while Randle is wildly jumping with no plan and throwing the ball away and throwing his hands in air afterward. Rose can’t be that guy for 38 min 82 games + playoffs.
If we can’t get Kawhi i like the idea of signing Derozan and then somehow acquiring Beal or LaVine by trading RJ and Mitch and picks. Beal and LaVine are both sure bets and guaranteed to be money well spent for years to come. I prefer LaVine but either one would be ill.
If we trade Mitch I’d also try to get Howard on a one year deal too simply for his rebounding. He and Boban appear to be the best rebounders of the centers on the FA list. Seems like he’d want to come once we’re clearly a championship contender.
Lowry
LaVine
Kawhi/Derozan
Randle
Howard
Rose
Vildoza
IQ
Bullock
Burks
Obi
Taj
Another vet
#21 pick
#32 pick
(This is assuming one of the picks we trade for LaVine is the #19 pick).
I’d like to keep IQ and Obi if possible. Mitch I think can be dealt while he still has decent value simply because the best ability is availability and already can see he’s never gonna have that for a full season— you do need to play a full season to win a championship.
Duncan Robinson wouldn’t hurt to take a look at as well if we could hope to still afford him after all these moves. Great shooter and has great playoff experience. Let’s bring in guys who have been there done that in the playoffs. We now know how important that is after this series vs the Hawks.
I think the general plan wrt to the starters is along the lines of what Jon in NYC has already mentioned a couple times... Championship.
I have no feel for Hawks 76ers. If Embiid was 100%, I'd go Philly in 5, but he's a complete wildcard.
I am most intrigued by how they approach the Randle situation. Randle had an amazing year, this team would not have sniffed the playoffs if he hadn't made the leap that he did this year. Going into the postseason, and after watching the first couple of games in the series, I had thought what this team needed was a Lonzo Ball type of PG. More of an off the ball, defense first type that can hit the open shot and get guys the ball in their spots when Randle isn't playing the primary ball handler role. After watching the series, I think they really need a true lead guard. Randle just can't be your primary ball handler when the games get more intense, and they can't move forward placing all of that responsibility on him. It's weird because RJ Barrett should be able to alleviate some of those responsibilities, but Randle always seems very reluctant to relinquish that role to him. As has been mentioned, RJ and Randle are not a great fit together. I have thought all year long that Barrett looked his best when he was on the floor without Julius. His strengths are minimized when he is relegated to just standing in the corner waiting to take a 3, he did an excellent job in that role during the season, but there is more to his game than that.
Still, I think the smart move is to offer Randle the max. He is too good of an asset to not at least make the offer rather than letting him play out next season and potentially lose him for nothing after that as a free agent. You have to lock him up to at least retain control of the asset whether the plan is to continue to build around him, or to package him in a deal for a bigger star. The most they can offer him this summer is 4 years $106 million, which is a steal if he continues to play like he did this season, and still a reasonable contract if they see some regression. Does Randle take that deal though? If he waits the additional year then his max contract goes up significantly to $35 mil per year. He can gamble on himself and make a heck of a lot more money.
All that said, and I know it isn't going to be a popular opinion, I would not be opposed to seeing Randle moved in a deal for a star. If Bradley Beal or Dame Lillard or some other star becomes available, I am completely fine with them including Randle in a trade. A package for a player of that caliber would have to include Randle or Barrett. I can't see anyway the conversation starts with anyone on the roster other than those two. That being the case, I'm trading Randle for a few reasons:
1. Randle's trade value is probably higher, so you don't have to completely empty the war chest to get a deal done. Randle, Knox, and a draft pick or 2 probably gets it done. With Barrett I think you are looking more at a trade similar to what the Nets gave up for Harden. Barrett, Robinson (or Toppin), Knox, and 4 draft picks type of deal.
2. I really liked what I saw out of Obi Toppin in the postseason. I know it was a small sample size, but we also saw signs of his improvement over the last 6 weeks or so of the season. I think there is a good player there, and unfortunately there will just never be enough minutes available behind Randle.
3. And this is the biggest one for me, I think Barrett will be a better fit than Randle as the second or (more likely) third fiddle on a team going forward. Randle was at his best this year because he was given the keys to the offense. Randle needs the ball in his hands to be effective. His style of play was frustrating to watch last season, and it was frustrating to watch in the postseason, and I don't know if a star player is going to want to come here to watch Julius Randle pound the ball for 18 seconds per possession.
There are a lot of different ways this team can go in the future, but I am fully confident in the front office (how crazy to say that about the Knicks!?) to make the right decisions going forward.
Yeah that was my first thought as well.
If Kidd won't even accept a promotion to go there...
The Hawks working over Philly early doesn’t make me feel any better. Hawks with 57 points HALFWAY through the second quarter.
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
You were saying?
Good point. Atlanta's a very good, well coached team.
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to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
You were saying?
He had 25 points in the 1st half while carving up the Sixers
2nd half he has 10 points and 3 turnovers and the adjustment has allowed Philly to come back and make this a game . That is what i was saying.
Amazing how people can't open their eyes and admit Thibs was terrible in the series
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.
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to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.
He didn’t say fire Thibs. He said Thibs didn’t make any adjustments, which is pretty incontrovertible.
Hawks close to choking this one away until Bogdanovic drains a three.
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to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.
Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.
Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else
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In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:
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to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.
Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.
Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else
How about game 1 last series when the Knicks came back down at half to make it a game? Or the 2nd half of game 2 where they went from down 13 to winning by what, 9? Outscored them by 22.
Do you have amnesia?
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In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:
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to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.
He didn’t say fire Thibs. He said Thibs didn’t make any adjustments, which is pretty incontrovertible.
Hawks close to choking this one away until Bogdanovic drains a three.
Lol these guys just can't accept any criticism towards Thibs. I never said anywhere Thibs should be fired i said he had a terrible series and Doc is already proving it in 1
game . This guy can't handle it though and is just going to talk about the regular season
Unreal.
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In comment 15280980 Stu11 said:
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In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:
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to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.
Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.
Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else
How about game 1 last series when the Knicks came back down at half to make it a game? Or the 2nd half of game 2 where they went from down 13 to winning by what, 9? Outscored them by 22.
Do you have amnesia?
Do you ? That was due to Getting Payton out of the game , Bumping Rose to 40 minutes a game and Atlanta getting ice cold from 3. It had nothing to do with any changes Thibs made defensively to guarding Trae which is my whole point here
Unreal.
Yes - it was Thibs' coaching genius that caused Atlanta to brick a bunch of open threes.
Unreal.
Name the adjustment. If we’re wrong, please correct us. I’m not trying to be a dick. I’m legitimately asking what you thought Thibs did differently in game 2? There are people who thought the Knicks were lucky to win that game because the Hawks missed a bunch of open threes.
10 points in the 2nd half of game 2.
But hey, let's praise Doc for making the adjustments on Young and holding him down in the 2nd half of a game they didn't lead in at any point in the 2nd half but act like game 2 of the previous series never happened.
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total in the 2nd half of game 2, but yeah Thibs didn't make any adjustments all series and they were never able to do what the sixers did today in the 2nd half.
Unreal.
Yes - it was Thibs' coaching genius that caused Atlanta to brick a bunch of open threes.
Thank you. I feel like im taking crazy pills with some of these people trying to defend Thibs doing absolutely nothing in 5 games to try to slow down Trae. Doc Rivers did more in 1 game then Thibs did in 5 and they almost came back from 25 points because of it
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In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:
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to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.
Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.
Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else
Oh give me a break. The lead was 14-18 till the last few minutes when Atlanta went to sleep and Philly putva miracle run on. Philly has a dpoy candidate in Simmons. Thibs got the Knicks to play spectacular team defense all year with literally no very good individual defenders. We have nowhere near the length of Philly. We have no one. NO ONE on the roster that can defend Trae and stop the drives. They have 4 shooters on the court at all times. Doubling him with no length would have done nothing but leave wide open shooters. Yeah the defensive genious Doc did hold Atlanta to 128. I'll give you that.
It wasnt defensively that was the isaue, offensively they were a trainwreck
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In comment 15280980 Stu11 said:
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In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:
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to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.
Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.
Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else
Oh give me a break. The lead was 14-18 till the last few minutes when Atlanta went to sleep and Philly putva miracle run on. Philly has a dpoy candidate in Simmons. Thibs got the Knicks to play spectacular team defense all year with literally no very good individual defenders. We have nowhere near the length of Philly. We have no one. NO ONE on the roster that can defend Trae and stop the drives. They have 4 shooters on the court at all times. Doubling him with no length would have done nothing but leave wide open shooters. Yeah the defensive genious Doc did hold Atlanta to 128. I'll give you that.
All you are doing is making excuses for Thibs not doing a thing. Why even have a coach then if he is not going to try something else when things are clearly not working ? Might as well just have a clipboard coaching the 1st round according to you .
Anyway, to not even try Frank other then bringing him ice cold off the bench for 20 seconds on Trae is ridicolous . Maybe it wouldn't have made a difference but maybe it would have. What did it hurt to try ? As far as trapping Young, it forced him to have 4 Turnovers in the 2nd half and took them out of their rhythm the whole 2nd half.
At least Doc tried something and they almost came back and won. Thibs just stuck with his same rotation and same defensive principles which is why the last 3 games were never close
Literally every Knicks fan knows Thibs did a Coach of the Year worthy job with this roster and organization this season. It doesn’t take way from that job to acknowledge that he really didn’t try anything different (beyond benching Payton) when it was clear what they were doing wasn’t working. Maybe Atlanta was just too talented and no amount of adjustments would’ve changed the outcome. But Thibs didn’t appear to really try anything different at all.
It was also pretty clear that Barrett and Quickly, a 20-year-old and a rookie, took a step backward when the pressure was turned up one more notch in the series, and Barrett wasn't getting nearly as many open catch-and-shoot opportunities with Randle apparently in exhaustion mode. And finally, with Rose starting, the second unit lost important scoring kick. One could also make a case that the pressure got to Burks, possibly because his timing wasn't optimal after missing so many games late in the season.
Bottom line: Imo, Thibs made some mistakes in PT and the rotation the last month of the season, but there really wasn't a whole heck of a lot he could do strategically or tactically in the playoff games themselves.
For those who disagree, what, exactly, should he have done better?
Luka is as good as Porzingis is bad.
I mean wow, what a complete nonfactor he has become. Boban is more impactful on both ends than KP.
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In comment 15280975 Giantfan21 said:
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to Trae and start trapping him in the 2nd half and go from Green to Simmons to Thybulle.
Meanwhile, Thibs had 5 games and didn't Adjust anything
Yeah Doc's a wizard. Trade has 35 and 8 and the Sixers haven't seen the deficit get below double digits while Embiid has like 32 and 8. You're right though fire Thib's ass. Only thing is maybe they and hire Jesus himself because I can't think of anyone else who could have dragged this sorry ass group of garbage pail kids to 41 wins.
Getting outscored 61-44 in the 2nd half and lead is down to 3 . Good post from You.
Anyway, My point is at least Doc tried something different and it only took him a half to do it. Thibs didn't try a thing through 5 games . Would anything have worked ? Maybe not but it's ridiculous to not even try something else
Doc has a much better team than Thibs. The Knicks don't have an Embiid
Who would trade for him? Certainly won't get any value back.
Who would trade him for at this point ?
He is constantly missing games due to injuries/resting his knees. He is clearly regressing. He is showing he is not a number 2 at all and has a huge contract. Mavs are stuck with his bumass
If I am Luka...get me legit supporting cast.
If I am Luka...get me legit supporting cast.
compeltely capped out and will have to pay hardaway and beunson
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I watched a ton of Clips Mavs. Zinger was a complete zero. He is a shell of his former self. Mavs are delusional if they think he is legit 2 on championship team.
If I am Luka...get me legit supporting cast.
compeltely capped out and will have to pay hardaway and beunson
Brunson is a UFA after next year.
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In comment 15281088 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I watched a ton of Clips Mavs. Zinger was a complete zero. He is a shell of his former self. Mavs are delusional if they think he is legit 2 on championship team.
If I am Luka...get me legit supporting cast.
compeltely capped out and will have to pay hardaway and beunson
Brunson is a UFA after next year.
Isnt it if they decline his option he is restricted if they dont he is ubrestricted next year?
He spent all season without the ball in his hands and averaged 18 a night. When he played with the starters, Randle had it, when he played with the bench Rose and Quickley had it.
And he made a huge leap this season from last. No reason to think he doesn't apply himself again this offseason. I think that it'd be a mistake to trade him. I definitely don't think you'd be "trading high" on him if you dealt him this offseason.
He spent all season without the ball in his hands and averaged 18 a night. When he played with the starters, Randle had it, when he played with the bench Rose and Quickley had it.
And he made a huge leap this season from last. No reason to think he doesn't apply himself again this offseason. I think that it'd be a mistake to trade him. I definitely don't think you'd be "trading high" on him if you dealt him this offseason.
He is absokutely better with the ball in his hands and if you add another star he becomes the 3rd guy..
and nobody is trading him for a bag of balls, he is being traded for a suoerstsr player..
or would you rather have the 3rd guy be a 3 and d wing who is a pure shooter?
or would you rather have the 3rd guy be a 3 and d wing who is a pure shooter?
How is that any different than his role this year? We just watched a full season of him playing effectively in that role. Is it the ideal use of him? No, but he just finished year 2. Let’s see how he continues to develop.
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and kept Rj, You think Rj is going to be effective standing at the 3 point line waiting for the ball? he is going to be effective as the weakside shooter?
or would you rather have the 3rd guy be a 3 and d wing who is a pure shooter?
How is that any different than his role this year? We just watched a full season of him playing effectively in that role. Is it the ideal use of him? No, but he just finished year 2. Let’s see how he continues to develop.
he was the number 2 guy this year
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In comment 15281116 nygiants16 said:
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and kept Rj, You think Rj is going to be effective standing at the 3 point line waiting for the ball? he is going to be effective as the weakside shooter?
or would you rather have the 3rd guy be a 3 and d wing who is a pure shooter?
How is that any different than his role this year? We just watched a full season of him playing effectively in that role. Is it the ideal use of him? No, but he just finished year 2. Let’s see how he continues to develop.
he was the number 2 guy this year
He didn't do much more than stand in the corner and wait for Randle to pass him the ball in the corner. When he was on the floor with Rose and Randle, he pretty much was the third option and played really well in that role. His usage rate this season was only 23%, that is more in line with a complimentary piece than a number 2 guy.
I have more confidence in RJ's ability to play alongside a guy like Lillard than I do in Randle. Randle is
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In comment 15281125 Mike in NJ said:
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In comment 15281116 nygiants16 said:
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and kept Rj, You think Rj is going to be effective standing at the 3 point line waiting for the ball? he is going to be effective as the weakside shooter?
or would you rather have the 3rd guy be a 3 and d wing who is a pure shooter?
How is that any different than his role this year? We just watched a full season of him playing effectively in that role. Is it the ideal use of him? No, but he just finished year 2. Let’s see how he continues to develop.
he was the number 2 guy this year
He didn't do much more than stand in the corner and wait for Randle to pass him the ball in the corner. When he was on the floor with Rose and Randle, he pretty much was the third option and played really well in that role. His usage rate this season was only 23%, that is more in line with a complimentary piece than a number 2 guy.
I have more confidence in RJ's ability to play alongside a guy like Lillard than I do in Randle. Randle is
Was going to add Randle is used to being the primary ball handler, and having everything run through him for the last 2 years.
Randle can play off the ball much easier because he can pick and pop, pick and roll..
He can also set up the other star better than Rj can..
I am sorry i wish i saw it with Rj but i dont, thats not to say i want to get rid of him for nothing, id only trade him for a superstar..
but with Rj i see just a guy, i can find a bunch of guys who can average 17-18 ppg and shoot the 3 and play defense..
Yeah how'd that team do?
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and averaged 21 and 10
Yeah how'd that team do?
It would of been fine if he had another star playing with him..
Dont act like Randle didnt carry this team all year
Barrett - ( New Window )
You would take Barrett over Lillard?
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In comment 15281139 nygiants16 said:
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and averaged 21 and 10
Yeah how'd that team do?
It would of been fine if he had another star playing with him..
Dont act like Randle didnt carry this team all year
Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday aren't stars?
Julius Randle absolutely carried this team, but that doesn't mean he would be a great fit next to another ball dominant player. He is at his best as the guy running the show.
Barrett - ( New Window )
so for a month he was good..
For the year 5-9 feet 35%
10-15 feet 35%
15-19feet 35%
when he finally got to the rim he shot 50%
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In comment 15281144 Mike in NJ said:
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In comment 15281139 nygiants16 said:
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and averaged 21 and 10
Yeah how'd that team do?
It would of been fine if he had another star playing with him..
Dont act like Randle didnt carry this team all year
Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday aren't stars?
Julius Randle absolutely carried this team, but that doesn't mean he would be a great fit next to another ball dominant player. He is at his best as the guy running the show.
Anthony davis was barely playing and Holiday is not a star stop..
He was only a ball dominant player because he was the number 1 option and the team had zero point guards on this roster..
With a good point he doesnt have to play that way and he wont...
So lets just agree to disagree haha
So lets just agree to disagree haha
I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.
You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?
Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.
Randle can play off the ball much easier because he can pick and pop, pick and roll..
He can also set up the other star better than Rj can..
I am sorry i wish i saw it with Rj but i dont, thats not to say i want to get rid of him for nothing, id only trade him for a superstar..
but with Rj i see just a guy, i can find a bunch of guys who can average 17-18 ppg and shoot the 3 and play defense..
You've been shitting on RJ all year. The kid is 20 years old and all he did was improve his eFG% by 50 points in year two. Go take a look at what guys like Bradley Beal were doing in year 1, year 2 and year 3. Coincidentally, Beal was also 20 years old in year 2. Or other guys you want to trade RJ for.
He sucked going to the rim? You mean a 20 year old kid isn't a finished product? What a revelation.
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as a piece that can play well with other stars, and yeah he averaged 18ppg and improved his 3 point shot, but he was terrible going to the rim, his decision making is trash and when he didnt fet the ball enough he lossed his rythm very easily..
Randle can play off the ball much easier because he can pick and pop, pick and roll..
He can also set up the other star better than Rj can..
I am sorry i wish i saw it with Rj but i dont, thats not to say i want to get rid of him for nothing, id only trade him for a superstar..
but with Rj i see just a guy, i can find a bunch of guys who can average 17-18 ppg and shoot the 3 and play defense..
You've been shitting on RJ all year. The kid is 20 years old and all he did was improve his eFG% by 50 points in year two. Go take a look at what guys like Bradley Beal were doing in year 1, year 2 and year 3. Coincidentally, Beal was also 20 years old in year 2. Or other guys you want to trade RJ for.
He sucked going to the rim? You mean a 20 year old kid isn't a finished product? What a revelation.
Nobody said he was a finished product and where did i say i would want to just get rid of him and i said multiple times i hope he improves and i hope he does it eith the Knicks..
BUT if a stsr becomes available i have no problem trading him
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can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..
So lets just agree to disagree haha
I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.
You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?
Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.
Randle can still play with the ball in his hands a lot playing with a guy like Lillard, because he can set Lillard up and vice versa...
You can have 2 of those types, i dont think it works with 3
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The kid is 20 and brought his 3-pt shooting up to 40% in his second year. If he improves his FT shooting, mid-game and finishing around the rim, he's 22/7/5 at the 3. I'd take that all day.
You would take Barrett over Lillard?
That isn't what I said. The question he posed was assuming we were able to trade for Lillard without giving up RJ in the deal, would you prefer RJ at the 3 or 3 and D guy (no examples given.
I'd rather hold on to the 20 year old kid who put in the work and made a significant jump in shooting efficiency - what many here claimed wasn't possible.
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In comment 15281171 nygiants16 said:
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can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..
So lets just agree to disagree haha
I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.
You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?
Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.
Randle can still play with the ball in his hands a lot playing with a guy like Lillard, because he can set Lillard up and vice versa...
You can have 2 of those types, i dont think it works with 3
I think we can both agree that we would love to find out lol
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In comment 15281174 Mike in NJ said:
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In comment 15281171 nygiants16 said:
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can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..
So lets just agree to disagree haha
I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.
You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?
Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.
Randle can still play with the ball in his hands a lot playing with a guy like Lillard, because he can set Lillard up and vice versa...
You can have 2 of those types, i dont think it works with 3
I think we can both agree that we would love to find out lol
100% if we can get Lillard without giving up Rj, i would without a doubt hope i was wrong lol..
Id rather be wrong snd the Knicks win than thr Knicks lose and be right..
However, Clippers advancing kinda shoots a hole in our Kawhi fantasies.
Dame will want a great supporting cast if he chooses to come here, and good news is we have the cap space to make that happen, bad news is the trade could potentially deplete us and make it harder for that to happen. Dame is a smart dude and will consider all of these things IMO.
You can love RJ and think he's a wonderful young player and still be okay with trading him. Say thanks, good luck & god bless.
Part of the game is developing talent into assets. It's cold, but it's nothing personal.
Now would I make the trade myself? Dame's 31 years old. I LOVE dame. but he's like 5 years older than Melo was when we got him. That's a much smaller window to work with.
You can love RJ and think he's a wonderful young player and still be okay with trading him. Say thanks, good luck & god bless.
Part of the game is developing talent into assets. It's cold, but it's nothing personal.
Now would I make the trade myself? Dame's 31 years old. I LOVE dame. but he's like 5 years older than Melo was when we got him. That's a much smaller window to work with.
I agree. People seem to think we can dump our luke warm assets and get an all star. That's not how it would work.
We need to stay on the course we're on. Keep hitting draft picks and we'll be competitive with a huge window.
If RJ improves from year 2 to 3 like he did from 1 to 2, we've got another all star on the roster already.
Give me Powell and Ball. Ascending talent on second contracts. Don't overpay, but get the guys with the upside who fill out our team. We need another shooter and a PG. And a big who can give us some offense underneath. Draft picks and RFAs can put us in a good spot. We don't need to trade RJ and IQ to compete.
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if you're going to trade for Dame. You're not going to get him just for mid-round first round picks and Toppin.
You can love RJ and think he's a wonderful young player and still be okay with trading him. Say thanks, good luck & god bless.
Part of the game is developing talent into assets. It's cold, but it's nothing personal.
Now would I make the trade myself? Dame's 31 years old. I LOVE dame. but he's like 5 years older than Melo was when we got him. That's a much smaller window to work with.
I agree. People seem to think we can dump our luke warm assets and get an all star. That's not how it would work.
We need to stay on the course we're on. Keep hitting draft picks and we'll be competitive with a huge window.
If RJ improves from year 2 to 3 like he did from 1 to 2, we've got another all star on the roster already.
Give me Powell and Ball. Ascending talent on second contracts. Don't overpay, but get the guys with the upside who fill out our team. We need another shooter and a PG. And a big who can give us some offense underneath. Draft picks and RFAs can put us in a good spot. We don't need to trade RJ and IQ to compete.
would love to do it this way, but you need stars to win a championship....you can build a good team and be a nice 2nd round team eithout stars but not a champiosnhip
I dont think anyone said it is the only way
This is somewhat true. Young guys are incentivised to sign with their original team. The draft team can pay more on that extension contract than a new team. They don't often turn down that money. They get the extension with the home team then force a trade.
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Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.
I dont think anyone said it is the only way
You've implied it.
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In comment 15281392 adamg said:
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Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.
I dont think anyone said it is the only way
You've implied it.
Ive implied that this was the only way to get a star?? really?? Funny because i always say i dont care how you get a star whether it is drsft one, trade for one or free agent...
They need to be looking for a guy that can take some of the scoring burden off of him, especially in crunch time, and can be a secondary playmaker when needed, but isn't completely reliant on being the primary ball handler. In terms of guys that are rumored to be available think Bradley Beal compared to Damian Lillard. I don't think you can stick Randle and Lillard on the court together and expect it to be an easy fit.
I also think a guy like Chris Paul if he decides to leave Phoenix, which doesn't seem likely now that they have advanced to round 2, would be a great fit because he has shown he can play effectively even when he has to take a backseat to a James Harden or Devin Booker.
I do really like the idea of Norman Powell. Regardless of who they decide to pursue as a star, Powell is someone that I think is a perfect fit as a complimentary piece. A 3-D player and then some. I hope he is their #1 target in free agency this summer.
They need to be looking for a guy that can take some of the scoring burden off of him, especially in crunch time, and can be a secondary playmaker when needed, but isn't completely reliant on being the primary ball handler. In terms of guys that are rumored to be available think Bradley Beal compared to Damian Lillard. I don't think you can stick Randle and Lillard on the court together and expect it to be an easy fit.
I also think a guy like Chris Paul if he decides to leave Phoenix, which doesn't seem likely now that they have advanced to round 2, would be a great fit because he has shown he can play effectively even when he has to take a backseat to a James Harden or Devin Booker.
I do really like the idea of Norman Powell. Regardless of who they decide to pursue as a star, Powell is someone that I think is a perfect fit as a complimentary piece. A 3-D player and then some. I hope he is their #1 target in free agency this summer.
I don’t like the idea of Randle being the reason we don’t get Dame.
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fit next to just any star. He is very ball dominant, and works best when the offense is centered around him.
They need to be looking for a guy that can take some of the scoring burden off of him, especially in crunch time, and can be a secondary playmaker when needed, but isn't completely reliant on being the primary ball handler. In terms of guys that are rumored to be available think Bradley Beal compared to Damian Lillard. I don't think you can stick Randle and Lillard on the court together and expect it to be an easy fit.
I also think a guy like Chris Paul if he decides to leave Phoenix, which doesn't seem likely now that they have advanced to round 2, would be a great fit because he has shown he can play effectively even when he has to take a backseat to a James Harden or Devin Booker.
I do really like the idea of Norman Powell. Regardless of who they decide to pursue as a star, Powell is someone that I think is a perfect fit as a complimentary piece. A 3-D player and then some. I hope he is their #1 target in free agency this summer.
I don’t like the idea of Randle being the reason we don’t get Dame.
If he is available then you absolutely make the trade and figure out how to make it work. We did see first hand with Stat and Carmelo (when Amare actually suited up) though that you can't just stick two stars on the court and expect it to be a good fit.
I mentioned it before the season when people were clamoring for a Randle trade, and it is even more true after how he played this season, I don't think he is going anywhere so they need to figure out the best way to build around him. It was clear that Rose and crew were placing a ton of value on CAA/Kentucky guys, and Randle checks both of those boxes. He is here to stay so how do we maximize the team we put around him?
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.
RJ not a reliable 3pt shooter? Might want to check the numbers on that one.
There are definitely valid questions about his ceiling but he's clearly as good as any young player that has been traded for a star recently. He improved in basically every aspect of his game and is a really solid defender too.
And I think you're overrating the value of the players who have been traded for star players. Stars don't get traded for stars in the NBA. Nets didn't give up anyone special to get Harden. SGA is probably the best player I can think of to get traded in one of these deals recently and he took a huge step forward after the trade.
Knicks definitely have enough to make a deal. I'd personally probably prefer one more season of asset acquisition.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.
This makes no sense. RJ doesn't have trade value? Toppin is a throw in? What team that would be in the market for a star this offseason (so no OKC) via trade could put together a better package? Boston if they're willing to trade Brown (unlikely), maybe GS depending on how the other team feels about Wiseman, Miami no, Dallas no, LA Teams no, etc etc...
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the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.
RJ not a reliable 3pt shooter? Might want to check the numbers on that one.
There are definitely valid questions about his ceiling but he's clearly as good as any young player that has been traded for a star recently. He improved in basically every aspect of his game and is a really solid defender too.
And I think you're overrating the value of the players who have been traded for star players. Stars don't get traded for stars in the NBA. Nets didn't give up anyone special to get Harden. SGA is probably the best player I can think of to get traded in one of these deals recently and he took a huge step forward after the trade.
And SGA likely wouldn't have been included in a deal for George in a vacuum but they got Kawhi + George essentially.
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the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.
RJ not a reliable 3pt shooter? Might want to check the numbers on that one.
There are definitely valid questions about his ceiling but he's clearly as good as any young player that has been traded for a star recently. He improved in basically every aspect of his game and is a really solid defender too.
And I think you're overrating the value of the players who have been traded for star players. Stars don't get traded for stars in the NBA. Nets didn't give up anyone special to get Harden. SGA is probably the best player I can think of to get traded in one of these deals recently and he took a huge step forward after the trade.
Knicks definitely have enough to make a deal. I'd personally probably prefer one more season of asset acquisition.
Was going to say this as well. Barrett was a 40% 3 point shooter, what more do we want from him there?
The Nets got James Harden in a deal packaged around Caris LeVert, it’s not like you need a Zion level young player to put in a deal....
Hope he keeps growing. Needs to learn to shoot off the dribble and finish reliably at the rim.
Hope he keeps growing. Needs to learn to shoot off the dribble and finish reliably at the rim.
thank you for a non defensive response- analytics dont like his shooting either. he still needs to prove himself. he improved this year but there are a lot of questions still when we are talking centerpiece of a blockbuster trade. toppin has been given limited opportunity and proved nothing in those.
players like SVG and Halliburton are young guys who could be centerpieces (even though they would be unlikely destinations). thus the point the big part of any knicks trade would be all of their picks.
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He was a 40% catch and shooter for about 50 games. That's progress. He would HAVE to be in a deal but I don't think his season is changing anyone's mind about him around the league. He didn't really help his case in the playoffs either.
Hope he keeps growing. Needs to learn to shoot off the dribble and finish reliably at the rim.
thank you for a non defensive response- analytics dont like his shooting either. he still needs to prove himself. he improved this year but there are a lot of questions still when we are talking centerpiece of a blockbuster trade. toppin has been given limited opportunity and proved nothing in those.
players like SVG and Halliburton are young guys who could be centerpieces (even though they would be unlikely destinations). thus the point the big part of any knicks trade would be all of their picks.
Where do analytics not like RJs Shooting?
It's not really accurate to say that RJ was a 40% catch and shoot guy for 50 games. He was actually .401% for the whole 72 game season. If you drop the five games from December, his season pct is .425, which would be top 20. If you want a 50 game sample, in 51 games since Feb 1, he shot .443, which would be top 10.
Facts aren't really defensive. They're just facts.
He definitely needs to add shooting off the dribble and finishing. His personal skills trainer has said they'll be working on precisely that. There are ceiling questions, too. But to pretend he's not a good an ascending player who is as good as the other young guys who have been in superstar trades is kind of odd.
This is a good point.
I also think it's premature to put Obi in the Knox category of trade throw-ins. He flashed a little towards the end of the season. Of course he shouldn't hold a deal up, but you'd really selling low on him at this point.
Also it sounds like RJ would be the centerpiece of any Lillard deal, which is understandable.
Also it sounds like RJ would be the centerpiece of any Lillard deal, which is understandable.
Not too excited about Oubre. He's a fine player but they don't need any more inconsistent offensive players.
As always, what's the cost. Might be an option on a short term "let me rebuild my value" type contract.
Yeah, for RJ it's still not very good. However, it did get a lot better this year than last. Really similar improvement to what Brandon Ingram did from year 1 (terrible) to year two (below average). RJ will really need to improve finishing and getting to the line to continue to improve his TS.
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The Nets got James Harden in a deal packaged around Caris LeVert, it’s not like you need a Zion level young player to put in a deal....
This is a good point.
I also think it's premature to put Obi in the Knox category of trade throw-ins. He flashed a little towards the end of the season. Of course he shouldn't hold a deal up, but you'd really selling low on him at this point.
Who was the last superstar-level prospect to get traded in a blockbuster for an established one? Ingram and SGA are both really good but they took major steps forward on their new teams. Hindsight is 20/20. You have those two, LeVert, DeRozan (which was an odd choice by SA given where they were then), Tobias Harris (for Griffin).
Tim McMahon has an article on ESPN.com about the Mavs and Porzingis. He somehow manages to come across as more self-absorbed and delusional than he was with the Knicks. If you can’t get along with a championship winning coach or the franchise’s star, then you might be the problem.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.
He doesn't have to prove that to get a big name. The Nets gave up less to get Harden. It just all depends on how ugly the situation gets in Portland and if he's willing to just force his way out like Harden was.
The Nets package was shit, but there wasnt really anywhere else for him to go.
If I'm the sixers i would push to trade Simmons for Lillard.
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That’s a shame.
Tim McMahon has an article on ESPN.com about the Mavs and Porzingis. He somehow manages to come across as more self-absorbed and delusional than he was with the Knicks. If you can’t get along with a championship winning coach or the franchise’s star, then you might be the problem.
Ugh. Good riddance. I honestly think we got the better side of that deal. And everyone seems to say “well but think of what Porzingis COULD be” IF he werent injured, IF he weren’t injury prone, IF he were on the right team, IF he could become more aggressive, IF he could learn to drive to the basket and/or get in the paint more... there are a million players in the history of the league who IF they could have done this or that could’ve been great players... but they weren’t. I agree I think Porzingis is the problem because there’s a “problem” everywhere he goes.
Bucks will always be a 2nd round exit with Giannis as their nukber 1 and Midleton their number 2 and Budenholzer as their coach..
As long as they stay healthy nobody is beating the Nets. I also don’t give a shit what they say, Nets fans will certainly take it and love it, but it just won’t feel complete to them. This isn’t their team. It’s not the team they had grown to love. It’s a bunch of mercenaries that aren’t theirs.
That’s not a knock on the Nets or the fans. As a Knicks fan I would feel the same way. I’ll gladly take the championship and carry it with me forever had these players gone to the Knicks. But I’d still feel like something was missing. It just wouldn’t be as special. Having 3 top 10 players team up intentionally and then adding guys like Blake who clearly tanked to get out of Detroit is incredibly lame. Again, Brooklyn fans will certainly take it, but nobody on the planet will ever look at Durant, Harden or Kyrie as Nets. They aren’t. They are mercenaries that teamed up to have an easy path to a championship and it happened to be in Brooklyn. Not one of them give a damn about Brooklyn. Except maybe Kyrie who grew up a New Jersey fan.
How about that? Congrats Thibs!
I was saying before the series people underestimated what the Nets (including Durant and Griffin, who both have great combos of length and athleticism) could do on D against Giannis— people were just basing their assumptions on the fact he put up like 40 points a game against them in the regular season. But who the hell wants to step in front of Giannis in a regular season game? Now low and behold it’s the playoffs and of course you see them stepping in front of Giannis, taking contact, hands in his face from all directions, and giving 100% intensity and effort and clearly the results are vastly different.
I also thought coming into the series the “non-big-3” of the Nets (I.e. everyone else) was at least as good as the “non-big-3” of the Bucks. Everyone was talking about the Nets like they’re just those 3 guys and then literally no one else— they have so many guys who play their role and play it well. Oh not to mention the Bucks don’t even have a big 3. I mean those are those 3 best players, but they aren’t a big 3.
I also think Nash doesn’t get enough credit. I know literally anyone could win with this talent but even considering that the whole operation just looks super smooth— calculated and cohesive.
That seems like a no brainer for both. Would be a max of 4/52 for Rose and 4/28 for Bullock, but again, after they've already spent their cap room.
They should do that if no other reason to get cap filler for future trades, since it's hard to add medium salaried players once you've hit the cap.
The one thing that would bother me is Irving. I'd rather lose than win with him. One of the least likable players in the history of sports. He's one of very few guys in the history of sports I'd rather lose than have him on my team. Vick is another one.
If the Knicks are ever a contender again, it's largely going to be a group of mercenaries.
Why does it look pretty stupid?
Guys force their way out all the time. Didn't stop Harden, didnt stop Anthony Davis. If they push the issue they wind up getting traded anyways
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In comment 15281400 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15281392 adamg said:
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Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.
I dont think anyone said it is the only way
You've implied it.
Ive implied that this was the only way to get a star?? really?? Funny because i always say i dont care how you get a star whether it is drsft one, trade for one or free agent...
Well, you've implied it's your preferred method. Every one of your scenarios ships out RJ. E.g. we get Kawhi in FA and then turn around and trade for Beal.
I think the real ideal involves not trading RJ or IQ. That's just my preference. I think long term that's best for this team.
We're one star richer already with Randle. RJ is going to be a star. Mitch has elite big upside. IQ is potentially an elite sixth man. We're a lot closer than people are making it out to be.
Adding a real point guard, a real shooter, we're easily a good playoff team and a star will want to come here when they hit FA.
Golden State may be hard to emulate, but it might be the most sustainable way to compete. And it makes for fun fan viewing.
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In comment 15281434 adamg said:
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In comment 15281400 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15281392 adamg said:
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Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.
I dont think anyone said it is the only way
You've implied it.
Ive implied that this was the only way to get a star?? really?? Funny because i always say i dont care how you get a star whether it is drsft one, trade for one or free agent...
Well, you've implied it's your preferred method. Every one of your scenarios ships out RJ. E.g. we get Kawhi in FA and then turn around and trade for Beal.
I think the real ideal involves not trading RJ or IQ. That's just my preference. I think long term that's best for this team.
We're one star richer already with Randle. RJ is going to be a star. Mitch has elite big upside. IQ is potentially an elite sixth man. We're a lot closer than people are making it out to be.
Adding a real point guard, a real shooter, we're easily a good playoff team and a star will want to come here when they hit FA.
Golden State may be hard to emulate, but it might be the most sustainable way to compete. And it makes for fun fan viewing.
I hope you are right..
I barely know anyone that's a hardcore NBA fan. It's crazy. And it's just not boomers, it's Gex-X as well.
The talent level is insane right now. There's a ton of elite players/no doubt HOFers/exciting young players - many of whom are are either approching their prime, in their prime, or just out of their prime. Might be the most in history.
LeBron, KD, Lillard, AD, LeBron, Harden, Jokic, Kawhi, Paul George, Kyrie, Chris Paul, Booker, Embiid, Giannis, Gobert, Curry, LaVine, Beal, Russ, Butler, Luka, Trae, Zion, LaMelo, Tatum.
And I'm almost certainly forgetting a few.
I like the idea of teaming Lowry and Derozan on the Knicks with Rj, Randle and Mitch, bring back Rose and 1 of Bullock or Burks..
Keeping the trade chips until a number 1 guy comes available..
@TheHoopCentral
Report: The Knicks have “some level of interest” in John Wall if he were available via trade, per @massey_evan
For the love of all that is holy, don't
They didn't take Westbrook for free, why would they want Wall?
I like his game and I think he'll continue to improve. But to my eye he's just missing that top level athleticism/twitch that I'm not sure he can overcome (insofar as stardom is concerned) without becoming an extremely proficient jump shooter.
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I also think could probably better than trading like 4 or 5 1st round picks for a star-- would rather wait for a star to come available in FA and keep our future picks. But I'd like to use our plethora of picks this year to bring in an already-proven young player.
I like the idea of teaming Lowry and Derozan on the Knicks with Rj, Randle and Mitch, bring back Rose and 1 of Bullock or Burks..
Keeping the trade chips until a number 1 guy comes available..
You're meaning when a number 1 guy comes available this offseason, right? I was referring to this year's picks, not our future 2023 Mavs 1st rounder or any of our own 1st rounders. Because I mean we have to either trade those 4 2021 picks or use them to pick players on July 29th. We can't wait past that for a #1 guy to come available via trade so we need to do something w/ them in the next 2 months (packaging them to trade up of course is another option).
He also has something a lot of the fast-twitch players do not--absolutely massive strength. At the age of 20, he is already top 10% in strength among shooting guards, assuming he ends up at the 2. Most 2s simply will not be able to stop him from getting deep inside, as he continues to get stronger.
They didn't take Westbrook for free, why would they want Wall?
Wall is kentucky alum, close with Wes and i beliece CAA
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In comment 15282628 Leg of Theismann said:
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I also think could probably better than trading like 4 or 5 1st round picks for a star-- would rather wait for a star to come available in FA and keep our future picks. But I'd like to use our plethora of picks this year to bring in an already-proven young player.
I like the idea of teaming Lowry and Derozan on the Knicks with Rj, Randle and Mitch, bring back Rose and 1 of Bullock or Burks..
Keeping the trade chips until a number 1 guy comes available..
You're meaning when a number 1 guy comes available this offseason, right? I was referring to this year's picks, not our future 2023 Mavs 1st rounder or any of our own 1st rounders. Because I mean we have to either trade those 4 2021 picks or use them to pick players on July 29th. We can't wait past that for a #1 guy to come available via trade so we need to do something w/ them in the next 2 months (packaging them to trade up of course is another option).
yeah guess your right on that
I would be 100% fine with the trade to this day if we just hadn’t given up Tim Hardaway. And I know hindsight is 20/20, but It just made no sense to me why we had to give him up as well in this trade when I already thought those 2 picks so far out + Dennis Smith wasn’t even enough value for Porzingis at the time. It’s like we had to give them Hardaway as well just to get them to take Porzingis off our hands? Bullshit. I liked always liked Hardaway’s game. Woulda been nice this year to have an extra shooter coming off the bench and could’ve especially helped against the Hawks.
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Why the hell would it be top ten protected both years so far out, I think we could have done better there.
I would be 100% fine with the trade to this day if we just hadn’t given up Tim Hardaway. And I know hindsight is 20/20, but It just made no sense to me why we had to give him up as well in this trade when I already thought those 2 picks so far out + Dennis Smith wasn’t even enough value for Porzingis at the time. It’s like we had to give them Hardaway as well just to get them to take Porzingis off our hands? Bullshit. I liked always liked Hardaway’s game. Woulda been nice this year to have an extra shooter coming off the bench and could’ve especially helped against the Hawks.
Hardaway was a shitty contract here. He didn't become a good shooter until last year.
I barely know anyone that's a hardcore NBA fan. It's crazy. And it's just not boomers, it's Gex-X as well.
Well, there's the fact that the officiating in the league is almost certainly crooked. My team has been dogshit for two decades. The same fucking teams win over and over again. The superfriends bullshit is pathetic. It is by far the most overtly political league and I dont share its politics.
There are plenty of reasons to dislike the NBA despite being a basketball fan.
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I barely know anyone that's a hardcore NBA fan. It's crazy. And it's just not boomers, it's Gex-X as well.
Well, there's the fact that the officiating in the league is almost certainly crooked. My team has been dogshit for two decades. The same fucking teams win over and over again. The superfriends bullshit is pathetic. It is by far the most overtly political league and I dont share its politics.
There are plenty of reasons to dislike the NBA despite being a basketball fan.
The NBA is trying to capture the youth audience. They don't give a shit about GenX/Boomers. Its exactly why they coopted their political stance and the super individual play.
I don't have kids, but date women that do. Live in Tampa and their kids were all obsessed with OBJ because of the catch. It's not about teams, it's about players now. Things are going to go down the boxing way. Storylines are more important than the actual game.
The NFL is only going to stay around because of fantasy football to the consternation of many on this board I'd imagine, myself included. It is what it is.
" He isn’t a long-term fit for the Rockets, and if New York really wants him, they have the pieces to get a deal done."
Those pieces better be multiple first round picks being sent to the Knicks because no one is touching that contract without assets being attached.
" He isn’t a long-term fit for the Rockets, and if New York really wants him, they have the pieces to get a deal done."
Those pieces better be multiple first round picks being sent to the Knicks because no one is touching that contract without assets being attached.
Id be ok with Wall if he was plan F and Houdton gave up assets to get rid of him, otherwise f no
The Wood signing was good but aside from that their new GM couldn't have had a worst start to a career. The returns on Westbrook and Harden are laughable. Maybe those picks work out way down the line but it looks awful right now.
I don't have kids, but date women that do. Live in Tampa and their kids were all obsessed with OBJ because of the catch. It's not about teams, it's about players now. Things are going to go down the boxing way. Storylines are more important than the actual game.
The NFL is only going to stay around because of fantasy football to the consternation of many on this board I'd imagine, myself included. It is what it is.
When was the NBA not about players and storylines before now? This is news to me. Feels like the NBA has been successfully marketing marquee athletes since the 90s.
Ultimately, the Knicks might have to depart with draft capital to acquire Lillard, but he offers them better play over a prolonged period of time. Lillard recently signed a four-year year, $176.2 million extension with the Portland Trailblazers, which hasn’t even kicked in yet. If the Knicks managed to trade for the star PG, they would have him for the next four seasons guaranteed, as there are no options built into the deal.
Link - ( New Window )
Teams are allowed to start trading as soon as they are eliminated and no longer playing..
Players that are pending free agents are not allowed to be traded until new league year..
cap space is based off of this years cap
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there a trade freeze on for teams that are eliminated? Like could the Knicks technically make this deal now?
Teams are allowed to start trading as soon as they are eliminated and no longer playing..
Players that are pending free agents are not allowed to be traded until new league year..
cap space is based off of this years cap
Ah, so it'd be tough to complete a trade right now for cap reasons.
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In comment 15283169 Jon in NYC said:
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there a trade freeze on for teams that are eliminated? Like could the Knicks technically make this deal now?
Teams are allowed to start trading as soon as they are eliminated and no longer playing..
Players that are pending free agents are not allowed to be traded until new league year..
cap space is based off of this years cap
Ah, so it'd be tough to complete a trade right now for cap reasons.
Knicks still have 13 million in space
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In comment 15283177 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15283169 Jon in NYC said:
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there a trade freeze on for teams that are eliminated? Like could the Knicks technically make this deal now?
Teams are allowed to start trading as soon as they are eliminated and no longer playing..
Players that are pending free agents are not allowed to be traded until new league year..
cap space is based off of this years cap
Ah, so it'd be tough to complete a trade right now for cap reasons.
Knicks still have 13 million in space
Yeah but Dame is making almost 40, so it'd be tough to facilitate given that we have so many pending FAs.
was just coming here to post about that.
His injury problems are real and I'm not sure how Thibs would manage that, but I love Kemba.
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Part of me thinks he would ball out with Knocks for a couple of years because he has something to prove and he would be home..
I wouldn't consider a trade for him at this point in the Knicks rebuild. Even with picks or swaps, with Tatum and Brown, those picks wouldn't even be that good.
Sorry but there's no way I'd take that. I'd rather have Rose than Kemba right now.
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Kemba, 16 and a future 1st for Knox and 23rd dallas, i would think about it
Sorry but there's no way I'd take that. I'd rather have Rose than Kemba right now.
Do you think 16, 19 and 21 gets you into the top 10?
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Kemba, 16 and a future 1st for Knox and 23rd dallas, i would think about it
Sorry but there's no way I'd take that. I'd rather have Rose than Kemba right now.
I have this weird feeling Kemba balls out next year
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In comment 15283279 nygiants16 said:
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Kemba, 16 and a future 1st for Knox and 23rd dallas, i would think about it
Sorry but there's no way I'd take that. I'd rather have Rose than Kemba right now.
Do you think 16, 19 and 21 gets you into the top 10?
Maybe, but who in the top 10 are you really targeting? Maybe Mitchell?
Thats fair, that knee is worrisome
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In comment 15283280 Jon in NYC said:
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In comment 15283279 nygiants16 said:
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Kemba, 16 and a future 1st for Knox and 23rd dallas, i would think about it
Sorry but there's no way I'd take that. I'd rather have Rose than Kemba right now.
Do you think 16, 19 and 21 gets you into the top 10?
Maybe, but who in the top 10 are you really targeting? Maybe Mitchell?
Probably mitchell, depending on how high you could go
There isn’t much I wouldn’t trade to get either of the Jalens on the Knicks.
Are you old enough to remember that the NBA finals were shown on tape delay after the 11 o'clock news? That didn't end until 1986!
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Need to get more. I love Kemba but he is a massive risk right now. For him not to be able to suit up in a playoff game is a huge deal. The dude is tough as nails.
It would be a massive risk that could possibly pay off if he turns out to be even relatively healthy and could get you a couple extra 1sts. But I think you need to be getting 2 1st round picks to even consider it. He's 31 and a little guy...
I don't imagine that 3 picks would get you into the top 10, but maybe?
Knox, both 1sts for wall and their 1st
Knox, both 1sts for wall and their 1st
I’d do that in a second if I’m the Knicks. 2 years of Wall (who actually isn’t bad if not for the $$$ but on the + side prevents us from giving a long term deal to someone who may not deserve it) in exchange for a chance at Cade or Suggs? Sign me up.
Knox, both 1sts for wall and their 1st
I'd probably do that. Wall really is not very good, injury prone, bad defender, inefficient scorer, but a top 3 pick for taking on his contract would be pretty nice -- especially since it's just for two years.
This is a tough one. He's younger than Obi Toppin, just came off a season in which he put up 24 PPG on good shooting %s, he's developed a 3 point shot.
But he seems to have clashed with his teammates, definitely isn't a pure PG, and is iffy defensively. Plus he's going to need a big contract soon.
So in sum it'd really depend on price I guess. There's upside, I'd move maybe a first and Obi, but not a ton more.
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This is a tough one. He's younger than Obi Toppin, just came off a season in which he put up 24 PPG on good shooting %s, he's developed a 3 point shot.
But he seems to have clashed with his teammates, definitely isn't a pure PG, and is iffy defensively. Plus he's going to need a big contract soon.
So in sum it'd really depend on price I guess. There's upside, I'd move maybe a first and Obi, but not a ton more.
Yeah its like you thibk its a no brainer just looking at his stats...
His assists did go up this year..
Would his defense be better under thibs? he is that attacking style point Thibs likes..
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In comment 15283435 nygiants16 said:
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..
This is a tough one. He's younger than Obi Toppin, just came off a season in which he put up 24 PPG on good shooting %s, he's developed a 3 point shot.
But he seems to have clashed with his teammates, definitely isn't a pure PG, and is iffy defensively. Plus he's going to need a big contract soon.
So in sum it'd really depend on price I guess. There's upside, I'd move maybe a first and Obi, but not a ton more.
Yeah its like you thibk its a no brainer just looking at his stats...
His assists did go up this year..
Would his defense be better under thibs? he is that attacking style point Thibs likes..
He and Rose have weirdly similar games. He's a better shooter than Rose but Rose was more explosive. Definitely think his defense would improve with both Thibs and guys around him committed to playing defense.
You'd also be able to get him while on a rookie deal and still have a ton of money to spend this offseason.
If we’re going to pay $40M for a 31 year old PG it damn sure better be Lillard. Even if that means trading away our draft capital and a couple pieces we like. Devoting that much of your cap space to a guy who can’t even be a #3 option on a contender (yes he was #3 to Tatum and Brown and the Celtics SUCKED)... how could we ever hope to be compete for a championship in the near future if we do that?
You know what they say about the most important ability.
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I know the Blazers probably dont do that, but you are not improving that team anymore than you already have, you have a golden oppurtunity here..
I know the Blazers probably dont do that, but you are not improving that team anymore than you already have, you have a golden oppurtunity here..
I've been trying to figure out if I've just been viewing this from a Knicks lens, but it's just tough to see how you don't blow it up as the Blazers.
Your starting SF is gone. Your starting PF and C are gone after this year. Melo is gone. Your coach is gone.
And you just got knocked out by a Nuggets team without its second best player. How are you going to improve your roster? You don't have many picks, you don't have young pieces...
Blow it up!
Wish to God they'd put Brogdon on the market. Man he'd fit great in orange and blue
Supposedly they want to make Sabonis a full time center
Why would we want Turner over Robinson? They’re about equal in defending, Robinson is the better rebounder, Turner is the better scorer. I personally think rebounding is more important in a center for us than scoring. I give the edge to Robinson as an overall player and Robinson is 2 years younger. Both are injury prone so that doesn’t provide an advantage. I don’t get the appeal.
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at 17.5
Why would we want Turner over Robinson? They’re about equal in defending, Robinson is the better rebounder, Turner is the better scorer. I personally think rebounding is more important in a center for us than scoring. I give the edge to Robinson as an overall player and Robinson is 2 years younger. Both are injury prone so that doesn’t provide an advantage. I don’t get the appeal.
They arent equal defending, Turner is bigger and doesnt get pushed around, turner is also a better shot blocker, not by much but he is..
and saying Turner is better offensively doesnt do it justice, he is worlds better offensively
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at 17.5
Why would we want Turner over Robinson? They’re about equal in defending, Robinson is the better rebounder, Turner is the better scorer. I personally think rebounding is more important in a center for us than scoring. I give the edge to Robinson as an overall player and Robinson is 2 years younger. Both are injury prone so that doesn’t provide an advantage. I don’t get the appeal.
One could argue that aside from point guard, the biggest issue with this offense is having a 5 that are all absolutely net zeroes on offense. Today’s game is about spacing. Having a somewhat reliable threat at the 5 would open a ton of things up. All you have to do is watch how Atlanta defended them. Capella never had to leave the paint. The Knicks desperately need a 5 that can score on things other than dunks
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and you get a godfather offer from a team for Lillard, dont you have to do it? Then you trade Mccollum and Nurkic and you can rebuild with a young team pretty quickly..
I know the Blazers probably dont do that, but you are not improving that team anymore than you already have, you have a golden oppurtunity here..
I've been trying to figure out if I've just been viewing this from a Knicks lens, but it's just tough to see how you don't blow it up as the Blazers.
Your starting SF is gone. Your starting PF and C are gone after this year. Melo is gone. Your coach is gone.
And you just got knocked out by a Nuggets team without its second best player. How are you going to improve your roster? You don't have many picks, you don't have young pieces...
Blow it up!
I would too, but I don't see them doing it. I would love if Lillard got dealt to NY, but I just don't see it happening unless he pulls a Harden & just becomes a complete dog. Dame doesn't strike me as having that in him, but who knows? Things change. He wanted Kidd as HC, but he pulled his name out of consideration.
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In comment 15284167 nygiants16 said:
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at 17.5
Why would we want Turner over Robinson? They’re about equal in defending, Robinson is the better rebounder, Turner is the better scorer. I personally think rebounding is more important in a center for us than scoring. I give the edge to Robinson as an overall player and Robinson is 2 years younger. Both are injury prone so that doesn’t provide an advantage. I don’t get the appeal.
One could argue that aside from point guard, the biggest issue with this offense is having a 5 that are all absolutely net zeroes on offense. Today’s game is about spacing. Having a somewhat reliable threat at the 5 would open a ton of things up. All you have to do is watch how Atlanta defended them. Capella never had to leave the paint. The Knicks desperately need a 5 that can score on things other than dunks
You really have a chance to be a dynamic offense with a 4 and 5 that are both real threats from downtown.
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In comment 15284167 nygiants16 said:
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at 17.5
Why would we want Turner over Robinson? They’re about equal in defending, Robinson is the better rebounder, Turner is the better scorer. I personally think rebounding is more important in a center for us than scoring. I give the edge to Robinson as an overall player and Robinson is 2 years younger. Both are injury prone so that doesn’t provide an advantage. I don’t get the appeal.
They arent equal defending, Turner is bigger and doesnt get pushed around, turner is also a better shot blocker, not by much but he is..
and saying Turner is better offensively doesnt do it justice, he is worlds better offensively
Well he may be bigger and doesn’t get pushed around but then I’m just wondering why he doesn’t come up w/ more rebounds. He basically averages 8 reb per 36 min while Robinson averages 11. I’m only drawing so much attention to this because I think a big reason why we got destroyed by the Hawks was because we got absolutely waxed in the boards. It’s the part of Robinson we missed most coming down the stretch (despite the fact Noel did a tremendous job protecting the rim almost all year he simply wasn’t a force on the glass).
Idk I’m only playing devils advocate here because I do feel like with free agents it can often be a “grass is greener” situation. And The best ability is availability so I’ve been more willing than most to trade Robinson (not for nothing though) but Turner is also not exactly reliable in that department either so that also is causing me to scrutinize him a little more.
NBA is a soft cap that allows you to go over the salary cap in a number of ways but mainly resigning your own players using the “Bird rule” to exceed the salary cap. Can also take on additional money in trades, picks and mid level exceptions. Only deterrence is the luxury cap penalties which is only financials.
It’s why you always hope the Knicks get in a position to be good with their own players because Dolan has never cared spending and the luxury tax won’t bother him. Hopefully one day soon.
What GMEN46?
Don't remember who it was here, but I do remember that happened.
The good news is that the guys in the league who were doing that now work for the Knicks.
*ducks for cover*