Was hoping this would not happen so quickly but it has and now we see hoe thr Knicks take that next step. Plenty of ways for this team to go and i am sure we will analyze and throw out ideas and over analyze every single option.
First off i am not taking 5 games in the playoffs over what we saw for 72 games. Does it suck? absolutrly but that dorsnt change my opinion on Randle or Rj or Thibs.
Randle is a building block, is he a number 1? no but we never thought he was, he is a 2 or in a perfect world a 3, same with Rj, Rj had his ups and downs and i was definitely one to always call out his downs but he improved a lot this season and gave you more hope for him than after his rookie deal..
As for the Vets on this team, Rose should be back as the back up point. He is clearly not a stsrter and we saw he got burnt out. Id like to see Burks back on the right deal, Bullock if he is coming back as a back up on a 1 or 2 year deal..
Taj i would love back as the 3rd center, Noel it depends on Mitch, i dont think you bring back both..
For the offseason there are a number of scenarios we habe already talkrd about
Lowry and Derozan, while trading fkr a star was mentioned by Jon in NYC..The lerfect way to do this is Lowry and derozan taking 2 year deals to play with Randle and thr star whoever it is..
Kawhi and trade for a star, this is a scenario that comes into play if Clippers lose game 6, Kawhi comes Knicks most likely will have a deal lined up for his running mate moving Randle the 3rd option..
We have seen Bradley Beal already stokr the flames, hopefully some guys decide it is time to move on...
They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.
I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.
He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.
Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.
I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.
But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.
They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.
I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.
He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.
Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.
I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.
But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.
Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch
Depending on FA, could roll out a lineup of something like CJ/RJ/Norm Powell/Randle/Mitch with a second unit of Rose/IQ/Luca Vildoza/Taj/first rounder.
Depending on FA, could roll out a lineup of something like CJ/RJ/Norm Powell/Randle/Mitch with a second unit of Rose/IQ/Luca Vildoza/Taj/first rounder.
Mcollum is not a point guard
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in a great position to blow it up. They have all their picks, Lillard, McCollum, RoCo and Nurkic will all bring back nice returns.
They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.
I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.
He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.
Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.
I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.
But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.
Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch
It sounds like the salary cap will be at 112 mil. If you waive everyone's bird rights, waive Pelle's unguaranteed contract, and include Noah's dead cap (FACK), that puts them at 47.5 mil, so the baseline is 64.5 mil in space.
Lillard's salary next year is 35% of the cap, so lets say 39 mil. Trading just Obi (5.5) and Knox (5.8), drops that down 28 mil, so they'd have 36.5 left. They'd probably have to add RJ, so that's another 8.6, and they'd have 45.1 mil left in space.
So yeah, you're right. Still have plenty of room to add another max and even a couple more guys after that.
I mean it's worth asking: Does a Lillard/Randle duo attract Kawhi too? If so you have to get it done at all costs.
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In comment 15279714 Jon in NYC said:
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in a great position to blow it up. They have all their picks, Lillard, McCollum, RoCo and Nurkic will all bring back nice returns.
They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.
I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.
He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.
Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.
I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.
But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.
Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch
It sounds like the salary cap will be at 112 mil. If you waive everyone's bird rights, waive Pelle's unguaranteed contract, and include Noah's dead cap (FACK), that puts them at 47.5 mil, so the baseline is 64.5 mil in space.
Lillard's salary next year is 35% of the cap, so lets say 39 mil. Trading just Obi (5.5) and Knox (5.8), drops that down 28 mil, so they'd have 36.5 left. They'd probably have to add RJ, so that's another 8.6, and they'd have 45.1 mil left in space.
So yeah, you're right. Still have plenty of room to add another max and even a couple more guys after that.
I mean it's worth asking: Does a Lillard/Randle duo attract Kawhi too? If so you have to get it done at all costs.
yeah plus your trading picks so that will add space as well..
Question at that point would be, do you go for the 3rd max or do you add a bunch of pieces around that duo and have a deep team?
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In comment 15279716 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15279714 Jon in NYC said:
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in a great position to blow it up. They have all their picks, Lillard, McCollum, RoCo and Nurkic will all bring back nice returns.
They basically have no other choice as well. If your ceiling is the 6 seed and guys are only leaving/getting older, you just have to blow it up.
I know this is going to sound insane, but I'm not 1000% convinced Lillard is the right move.
He's 30, has a 40 mil cap hit and will cost a host of picks/players.
Adding Lillard makes it much harder to put a complete team together.
I'd feel a lot better trading for Lillard after they were able to add 1-2 guys in free agency for example. Maybe Norm, obviously ideally Kawhi, I'm not sure.
But I don't think Lillard/Randle/RJ/Mitch is enough to be a true title challenger.
Depending on the cap number there is a way to still habe 40 to 50 million in space after a lillard trade and keep Randle and mitch
It sounds like the salary cap will be at 112 mil. If you waive everyone's bird rights, waive Pelle's unguaranteed contract, and include Noah's dead cap (FACK), that puts them at 47.5 mil, so the baseline is 64.5 mil in space.
Lillard's salary next year is 35% of the cap, so lets say 39 mil. Trading just Obi (5.5) and Knox (5.8), drops that down 28 mil, so they'd have 36.5 left. They'd probably have to add RJ, so that's another 8.6, and they'd have 45.1 mil left in space.
So yeah, you're right. Still have plenty of room to add another max and even a couple more guys after that.
I mean it's worth asking: Does a Lillard/Randle duo attract Kawhi too? If so you have to get it done at all costs.
yeah plus your trading picks so that will add space as well..
Question at that point would be, do you go for the 3rd max or do you add a bunch of pieces around that duo and have a deep team?
I mean honestly you could do a bit of both.
Say Kawhi signs for 35 mil. That leaves you with 10. Bring back Rose, bring back Taj, bring back Bullock with the Room exception. Still have Vildoza too who is a question mark.
Mitch-Randle-Kawhi-Bullock-Lillard
Taj-Rose-IQ-Vildoza + probably need one or two more solid vet pickups somehow or draft picks.
i dont know even Nurkic alluded to not wanting to be there anymore..
Stotts i think will be fired, team has plateaued and they really have no way of getting better
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Than NBA GM's are. I'm not so sure Portland is so quick to do it as you guys think. After a year of no hate revenue I'm not believing they want to blow it up and kill their attendance next year as well. Yes they have been ousted in the 1st rd the past few years, but they did make the 3rd rd a few years ago, their key guys have at least a few years left in their primes. The west is kind of in flux a bit. I could see them dealing Mccollum, and I'd be in on that, but Dame is a pipe dream I can't allow myself to get sucked into. I think its just as possible they view themselves as a Phoenix or Utah in waiting. Who knows I guess we'll see.
i dont know even Nurkic alluded to not wanting to be there anymore..
Stotts i think will be fired, team has plateaued and they really have no way of getting better
You could be right. Like I said who knows? It was a bitter loss last night. They were in total control late in the 3rd and it all fell apart.
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In comment 15279732 Stu11 said:
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Than NBA GM's are. I'm not so sure Portland is so quick to do it as you guys think. After a year of no hate revenue I'm not believing they want to blow it up and kill their attendance next year as well. Yes they have been ousted in the 1st rd the past few years, but they did make the 3rd rd a few years ago, their key guys have at least a few years left in their primes. The west is kind of in flux a bit. I could see them dealing Mccollum, and I'd be in on that, but Dame is a pipe dream I can't allow myself to get sucked into. I think its just as possible they view themselves as a Phoenix or Utah in waiting. Who knows I guess we'll see.
i dont know even Nurkic alluded to not wanting to be there anymore..
Stotts i think will be fired, team has plateaued and they really have no way of getting better
You could be right. Like I said who knows? It was a bitter loss last night. They were in total control late in the 3rd and it all fell apart.
absolutely we dont know...there was a lot if frustration after game 5 to
I love CJ and if the Blazers were blowing it up for cap space or willing to take less, then ok. But I don't really see it otherwise.
For what it's worth, I've read a few Blazer blogs who think they will blow it up.
I love CJ and if the Blazers were blowing it up for cap space or willing to take less, then ok. But I don't really see it otherwise.
Yeah I'd rather have Norm as a FA than CJ as a trade. The CJ trade makes more sense for like the Lakers, or Celtics, or Nuggets even, a team against the cap that has some salary and assets to move.
OKC a few years ago is a good comp for where they're at. The issue with running it back actually is financial for them. They just paid the league's biggest luxury tax bill and there's no way for them to avoid it again while improving the roster. That's a big pill to swallow for a team that has been eliminated in the first round in 4 of the last 5 years.
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I feel like the Knicks would probably rather sign Powell than trade assets for McCollum. That CJ contract is not great. Wouldn't you rather get Powell for less and hold on to the picks and Obi or Q?
I love CJ and if the Blazers were blowing it up for cap space or willing to take less, then ok. But I don't really see it otherwise.
Yeah I'd rather have Norm as a FA than CJ as a trade. The CJ trade makes more sense for like the Lakers, or Celtics, or Nuggets even, a team against the cap that has some salary and assets to move.
I actually think it's reasonable to believe that they trade CJ and resign Powell. They have no avenues to improve the roster right now and despite having Powell's bird rights, the luxury tax is likely to make it very difficult to resign him with CJ and Dame under contract. But if you trade CJ and get some cap relief and players/trade assets that's probably preferable to running back mostly the same team san Powell.
But its easier said than done to trade a 1st team all nba player. It's honestly probably more a question if Lillard wants out?
And I know this is beyond a pipe dream, or maybe happens somewhere thats not the Knicks, but I think Kawhi would 100% be attracted to play with a true point like Lillard.
Similar news of Kawhi and Dame to NYK might just kill me.
For Knicks If you have a chance at kawhi the move is to sign Lowry. The problem that kawhi has is he got his second star in George but they do not have a well rounded team and they don’t have great depth. If Knicks trade eveything for lillard ie mitch, Quickley, Rj and all their picks. They have a big 3 with Randle I guess but still lacking talent at other positions and no cap space. Kawhi won the title by being the clear number 1 and playing with a really good balanced team.
I think the following team would be really good:
Lowry
Kawhi
Barrett
Randle
Mitch
Quickley
Rose
Davion mitchell - move up on draft to get him
Knox - they will have to play him next year
Toppin
Gibson or other vet
Bullock or burks
Ring chasing vet, maybe noel if you have room.
European point guard
2nd rd pick
Then you still have caproom in 2022 to get lavine or Beal. In this scenario you can still try a mid season trade for lavine ir Beal and maybe you get it done with just RJ and picks.
Davion mitchell hopefully becomes your pg of the future.in this scenario the Knicks second team could be really good. assuming continued improvements by Quickley and Toppin.
Not saying it's a bad idea to try for one or both of them, just trying to picture the longer term.
Not saying it's a bad idea to try for one or both of them, just trying to picture the longer term.
If this were the NFL I would maybe be concerned. But a superstar having just turned 30 in the NBA is not of concern to me. I believe Kawhi and Dame still each have a few years left in their primes-- It's not like either of them have been plagued by injuries in their careers. The purpose of any organization is to win a championship-- If you have a chance to get 2 top 10 talents together for 3-4 years you have to take your chances IMO.
Kawhi + Dame w/ Randle as a 3rd option is probably our only hope of competing w/ the big 3 in Brooklyn for the foreseeable future. And I actually really like our chances against the Nets given that Kawhi and Dame are 2 of the most clutch performers of this era (hopefully Randle can get his shit together in the postseason).
I doubt we'd be able to keep RJ in the trade for Dame but if we could somehow then another leap for him this offseason similar to what he had last year and suddenly we have 4 all stars on this team with 2 of them being top 10 talents.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for Kawhi. I saw a tweet last year (linked below) pointing out that Kawhi has saved the NBA 3 separate times: he 1) ended the big 3 in Miami, 2) ended the Warriors super team, and 3) refused to go to the Lakers and hence ended that super team before it even started (and instead decided to do his own thing with the Clippers in the same damn building and town as the Lakers). The tweet says “Kawhi is the balance in the Force, the real-life last Jedi” lol
Dame and Kawhi strike me as 2 very similar people.
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Knicks win 1 champiosnhip in the 5 years they are here, when they leave the stink that this team has had is long gone, you dont think more would want to come and follow in their footsteps?
Yeha they are 30, and they may not be here for 10 years, but your now set the standard for players to come here and team up
It would be what the plab was to build around Lillard and Randle, if you want another max then Rj probably has to be in the deal
I love how passionate my fellow Knicks fans are but there are truly a lot of stupid ones out there.
Absurd shooting percentage for Kawhi, and they've needed every bit of his scoring
Rose deserves more and should get it. Give that to Bullock.
Just to clarify Adam the plan would be to trade for Dame and then sign Kawhi. We wouldn’t have to trade for both of them. We’d hope Kawhi opts out and signs w/ us.
The thing is: I think we’d need both of them to know the other is coming in order to want to come here— which one of them would come here first lol? I’m hoping Dame first would push for Portland to trade him here (a la a Harden situation). I think Kawhi would then be attracted to come. Don’t ask me why, I just imagine Kawhi would love to play w/ Lillard.
I could see Dame wanting to come here after seeing the Garden go crazy in the playoffs — he lives for pressure and big moments and the big stage. He feeds off of it. Portland just doesn’t seem like the place for a guy like that. I think he’s also very loyal and not a quitter so that’s what’s keeping him there, but based on what he’s been saying the last couple days it feels like the desperation to win and not waste his career will prevail (especially now that he’s turned 30, who among us didnt take a hard look at things when we turned 30 ha) . Also — knowing how serious the culture is here about winning and hard work. He wants to be on a team where he knows all 15 guys and the coaching staff are putting in overtime and it’s not just him doing it. Dame needs to in the next few years, but he doesn’t want to just join a team like the Lakers and be Lebrons sidekick. Knicks seem like an ideal situation to me.
Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard
Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox
I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.
Allen
LeVert
Prince
Kurucs
3 1st round picks
4 1st round pick swaps
And the Nets had all the leverage in that deal because Harden wanted out and specifically only wanted the Nets. I think we have to hope for a similar development with Lillard and NYK
Starters:
Dame
Bullock
Derozan
Randle
Mitch
2nd unit:
Rose
Quickley
Burks
Obi
Taj
I honestly think both units would be absolutely lethal offensively.
(Taj will come cheaper than Noel and I thought he gave us a way better chance in the Atlanta series— I loved his effort, his experience was clearly valuable as hell. Btw what do you guys think of giving Dwight Howard a 1 year deal? We need a guy who can rebound, has some bulk and athleticism and won’t let Capela make him his bitch— looking forward to seeing how they fare against each other in this series especially with Embiid being hurt.)
Good player, but 18 mil per year scares me as does his injury history. My gut is that we could use our cap room more effectively.
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Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard
Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox
Portland would hang up. No way you're getting an all-nba caliber player and only giving up one of the RJ/IQ/Obi group.
Also, Frank can't be traded - he's not under contract. Even if he could, he has minimal value. And Knox has negative value.
Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard
Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox
I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.
I'm with Enzo. I don't think that does it for Port. Frank is a RFA. Knox is trash.
If they ask for RJ/Obi/IQ/Mitch and 4 firsts, are you down?
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The one that feels most realistic for both sides would be:
Knicks get:
-Damian Lillard
Blazers get:
-Mavs 2021 & 2023 1st round picks
-Knicks 2021 & 2024 1st round pick
-Mitchell Robinson
-Immanuel Quickley
-Frank Ntilikina
-Kevin Knox
I hate having to give up Quick, he was one of 3 untouchables I’d listed earlier this year (Quick, Barrett, Randle) but when we’re talking about a top 10 superstar talent you KNOW a team is going to push for an “untouchable” guy lol. Quick just makes most sense as the guy the Blazers would push to get for Dame.
I'm with Enzo. I don't think that does it for Port. Frank is a RFA. Knox is trash.
If they ask for RJ/Obi/IQ/Mitch and 4 firsts, are you down?
I mean that's literally everyone other than Julius. I think Obi is a must given that his long term fit next to Randle is in doubt. Beyond that, they can have either IQ and Mitch OR RJ.