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NFT: Knicks offseason chat

nygiants16 : 6/3/2021 7:35 am
Was hoping this would not happen so quickly but it has and now we see hoe thr Knicks take that next step. Plenty of ways for this team to go and i am sure we will analyze and throw out ideas and over analyze every single option.

First off i am not taking 5 games in the playoffs over what we saw for 72 games. Does it suck? absolutrly but that dorsnt change my opinion on Randle or Rj or Thibs.

Randle is a building block, is he a number 1? no but we never thought he was, he is a 2 or in a perfect world a 3, same with Rj, Rj had his ups and downs and i was definitely one to always call out his downs but he improved a lot this season and gave you more hope for him than after his rookie deal..

As for the Vets on this team, Rose should be back as the back up point. He is clearly not a stsrter and we saw he got burnt out. Id like to see Burks back on the right deal, Bullock if he is coming back as a back up on a 1 or 2 year deal..

Taj i would love back as the 3rd center, Noel it depends on Mitch, i dont think you bring back both..

For the offseason there are a number of scenarios we habe already talkrd about

Lowry and Derozan, while trading fkr a star was mentioned by Jon in NYC..The lerfect way to do this is Lowry and derozan taking 2 year deals to play with Randle and thr star whoever it is..

Kawhi and trade for a star, this is a scenario that comes into play if Clippers lose game 6, Kawhi comes Knicks most likely will have a deal lined up for his running mate moving Randle the 3rd option..

We have seen Bradley Beal already stokr the flames, hopefully some guys decide it is time to move on...
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RE: RE: RE: RE: Randle played off the ball in new orleans  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 9:08 pm : link
In comment 15281156 Mike in NJ said:
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In comment 15281146 nygiants16 said:


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In comment 15281144 Mike in NJ said:


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In comment 15281139 nygiants16 said:


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and averaged 21 and 10



Yeah how'd that team do?



It would of been fine if he had another star playing with him..

Dont act like Randle didnt carry this team all year



Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday aren't stars?

Julius Randle absolutely carried this team, but that doesn't mean he would be a great fit next to another ball dominant player. He is at his best as the guy running the show.


Anthony davis was barely playing and Holiday is not a star stop..

He was only a ball dominant player because he was the number 1 option and the team had zero point guards on this roster..

With a good point he doesnt have to play that way and he wont...
If you think Rj  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 9:15 pm : link
can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..

So lets just agree to disagree haha
RE: If you think Rj  
Mike in NJ : 6/6/2021 9:20 pm : link
In comment 15281171 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..

So lets just agree to disagree haha


I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.

You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?

Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.
RE: I just dont see Rj  
PwndPapi : 6/6/2021 9:27 pm : link
In comment 15281138 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
as a piece that can play well with other stars, and yeah he averaged 18ppg and improved his 3 point shot, but he was terrible going to the rim, his decision making is trash and when he didnt fet the ball enough he lossed his rythm very easily..

Randle can play off the ball much easier because he can pick and pop, pick and roll..

He can also set up the other star better than Rj can..

I am sorry i wish i saw it with Rj but i dont, thats not to say i want to get rid of him for nothing, id only trade him for a superstar..

but with Rj i see just a guy, i can find a bunch of guys who can average 17-18 ppg and shoot the 3 and play defense..


You've been shitting on RJ all year. The kid is 20 years old and all he did was improve his eFG% by 50 points in year two. Go take a look at what guys like Bradley Beal were doing in year 1, year 2 and year 3. Coincidentally, Beal was also 20 years old in year 2. Or other guys you want to trade RJ for.

He sucked going to the rim? You mean a 20 year old kid isn't a finished product? What a revelation.
RE: RE: I just dont see Rj  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 9:29 pm : link
In comment 15281179 PwndPapi said:
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In comment 15281138 nygiants16 said:


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as a piece that can play well with other stars, and yeah he averaged 18ppg and improved his 3 point shot, but he was terrible going to the rim, his decision making is trash and when he didnt fet the ball enough he lossed his rythm very easily..

Randle can play off the ball much easier because he can pick and pop, pick and roll..

He can also set up the other star better than Rj can..

I am sorry i wish i saw it with Rj but i dont, thats not to say i want to get rid of him for nothing, id only trade him for a superstar..

but with Rj i see just a guy, i can find a bunch of guys who can average 17-18 ppg and shoot the 3 and play defense..



You've been shitting on RJ all year. The kid is 20 years old and all he did was improve his eFG% by 50 points in year two. Go take a look at what guys like Bradley Beal were doing in year 1, year 2 and year 3. Coincidentally, Beal was also 20 years old in year 2. Or other guys you want to trade RJ for.

He sucked going to the rim? You mean a 20 year old kid isn't a finished product? What a revelation.


Nobody said he was a finished product and where did i say i would want to just get rid of him and i said multiple times i hope he improves and i hope he does it eith the Knicks..

BUT if a stsr becomes available i have no problem trading him
RE: RE: If you think Rj  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 9:30 pm : link
In comment 15281174 Mike in NJ said:
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In comment 15281171 nygiants16 said:


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can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..

So lets just agree to disagree haha



I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.

You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?

Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.


Randle can still play with the ball in his hands a lot playing with a guy like Lillard, because he can set Lillard up and vice versa...

You can have 2 of those types, i dont think it works with 3
RE: RE: I would rather have RJ  
PwndPapi : 6/6/2021 9:30 pm : link
In comment 15281151 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 15281118 PwndPapi said:


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The kid is 20 and brought his 3-pt shooting up to 40% in his second year. If he improves his FT shooting, mid-game and finishing around the rim, he's 22/7/5 at the 3. I'd take that all day.



You would take Barrett over Lillard?


That isn't what I said. The question he posed was assuming we were able to trade for Lillard without giving up RJ in the deal, would you prefer RJ at the 3 or 3 and D guy (no examples given.

I'd rather hold on to the 20 year old kid who put in the work and made a significant jump in shooting efficiency - what many here claimed wasn't possible.
RE: RE: RE: If you think Rj  
Mike in NJ : 6/6/2021 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15281181 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15281174 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


In comment 15281171 nygiants16 said:


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can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..

So lets just agree to disagree haha



I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.

You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?

Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.



Randle can still play with the ball in his hands a lot playing with a guy like Lillard, because he can set Lillard up and vice versa...

You can have 2 of those types, i dont think it works with 3


I think we can both agree that we would love to find out lol
RE: RE: RE: RE: If you think Rj  
nygiants16 : 6/6/2021 9:40 pm : link
In comment 15281184 Mike in NJ said:
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In comment 15281181 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15281174 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


In comment 15281171 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


can be a better off the ball player than Randle than we are never going to agree..

So lets just agree to disagree haha



I guess so, but I just watched RJ Barrett have a good year, on a good team, as an off the ball player and have never seen Randle do it.

You say Randle did it in New Orleans, but then when I bring up the fact that the team was bad, you try to say Anthony Davis barely played. So if Davis barely played how is that evidence that Randle can play off the ball?

Based on what I saw this year, I have serious doubts that Randle can be effective if he is not the primary ball handler.



Randle can still play with the ball in his hands a lot playing with a guy like Lillard, because he can set Lillard up and vice versa...

You can have 2 of those types, i dont think it works with 3



I think we can both agree that we would love to find out lol


100% if we can get Lillard without giving up Rj, i would without a doubt hope i was wrong lol..

Id rather be wrong snd the Knicks win than thr Knicks lose and be right..
The Blazers / Kidd / Dame news  
Leg of Theismann : 6/6/2021 10:59 pm : link
Has me feeling better about Dame possibly wanting a trade, and I don’t know why I just have a really good feeling NY feels very Dame-like to me now that we have a better culture.

However, Clippers advancing kinda shoots a hole in our Kawhi fantasies.

Dame will want a great supporting cast if he chooses to come here, and good news is we have the cap space to make that happen, bad news is the trade could potentially deplete us and make it harder for that to happen. Dame is a smart dude and will consider all of these things IMO.
You have to give up something that's going to hurt  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2021 7:59 am : link
if you're going to trade for Dame. You're not going to get him just for mid-round first round picks and Toppin.

You can love RJ and think he's a wonderful young player and still be okay with trading him. Say thanks, good luck & god bless.

Part of the game is developing talent into assets. It's cold, but it's nothing personal.


Now would I make the trade myself? Dame's 31 years old. I LOVE dame. but he's like 5 years older than Melo was when we got him. That's a much smaller window to work with.
RE: You have to give up something that's going to hurt  
adamg : 6/7/2021 8:07 am : link
In comment 15281372 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
if you're going to trade for Dame. You're not going to get him just for mid-round first round picks and Toppin.

You can love RJ and think he's a wonderful young player and still be okay with trading him. Say thanks, good luck & god bless.

Part of the game is developing talent into assets. It's cold, but it's nothing personal.


Now would I make the trade myself? Dame's 31 years old. I LOVE dame. but he's like 5 years older than Melo was when we got him. That's a much smaller window to work with.


I agree. People seem to think we can dump our luke warm assets and get an all star. That's not how it would work.

We need to stay on the course we're on. Keep hitting draft picks and we'll be competitive with a huge window.

If RJ improves from year 2 to 3 like he did from 1 to 2, we've got another all star on the roster already.

Give me Powell and Ball. Ascending talent on second contracts. Don't overpay, but get the guys with the upside who fill out our team. We need another shooter and a PG. And a big who can give us some offense underneath. Draft picks and RFAs can put us in a good spot. We don't need to trade RJ and IQ to compete.
RE: RE: You have to give up something that's going to hurt  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 8:32 am : link
In comment 15281377 adamg said:
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In comment 15281372 Ten Ton Hammer said:


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if you're going to trade for Dame. You're not going to get him just for mid-round first round picks and Toppin.

You can love RJ and think he's a wonderful young player and still be okay with trading him. Say thanks, good luck & god bless.

Part of the game is developing talent into assets. It's cold, but it's nothing personal.


Now would I make the trade myself? Dame's 31 years old. I LOVE dame. but he's like 5 years older than Melo was when we got him. That's a much smaller window to work with.



I agree. People seem to think we can dump our luke warm assets and get an all star. That's not how it would work.

We need to stay on the course we're on. Keep hitting draft picks and we'll be competitive with a huge window.

If RJ improves from year 2 to 3 like he did from 1 to 2, we've got another all star on the roster already.

Give me Powell and Ball. Ascending talent on second contracts. Don't overpay, but get the guys with the upside who fill out our team. We need another shooter and a PG. And a big who can give us some offense underneath. Draft picks and RFAs can put us in a good spot. We don't need to trade RJ and IQ to compete.


would love to do it this way, but you need stars to win a championship....you can build a good team and be a nice 2nd round team eithout stars but not a champiosnhip
Stars hit FA  
adamg : 6/7/2021 8:37 am : link
Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.
RE: Stars hit FA  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 8:51 am : link
In comment 15281392 adamg said:
Quote:
Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.


I dont think anyone said it is the only way
RE: Stars hit FA  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2021 8:51 am : link
In comment 15281392 adamg said:
Quote:
Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.


This is somewhat true. Young guys are incentivised to sign with their original team. The draft team can pay more on that extension contract than a new team. They don't often turn down that money. They get the extension with the home team then force a trade.
How great of a fit  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 9:00 am : link
would be a healtht Porzingis next to Randle? thid kp hell fricken no..
RE: RE: Stars hit FA  
adamg : 6/7/2021 9:20 am : link
In comment 15281400 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15281392 adamg said:


Quote:


Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.



I dont think anyone said it is the only way


You've implied it.
Lillard would be  
NYG-TDBlue : 6/7/2021 9:27 am : link
a momumental get for the NYK. Having him, Randle and probably keeping 2-3 of Quicks,Mitch,RJ, and Obi will be a solid foundation to attract another star.

RE: RE: RE: Stars hit FA  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 9:28 am : link
In comment 15281434 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15281400 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15281392 adamg said:


Quote:


Trading away RJ and IQ and our draft picks to get them isn't the only way.



I dont think anyone said it is the only way



You've implied it.


Ive implied that this was the only way to get a star?? really?? Funny because i always say i dont care how you get a star whether it is drsft one, trade for one or free agent...

Warriors are more exception  
NYG-TDBlue : 6/7/2021 9:30 am : link
than rule in today's NBA
As I said yesterday, I don't think Randle is the type that is an easy  
Mike in NJ : 6/7/2021 9:48 am : link
fit next to just any star. He is very ball dominant, and works best when the offense is centered around him.

They need to be looking for a guy that can take some of the scoring burden off of him, especially in crunch time, and can be a secondary playmaker when needed, but isn't completely reliant on being the primary ball handler. In terms of guys that are rumored to be available think Bradley Beal compared to Damian Lillard. I don't think you can stick Randle and Lillard on the court together and expect it to be an easy fit.

I also think a guy like Chris Paul if he decides to leave Phoenix, which doesn't seem likely now that they have advanced to round 2, would be a great fit because he has shown he can play effectively even when he has to take a backseat to a James Harden or Devin Booker.

I do really like the idea of Norman Powell. Regardless of who they decide to pursue as a star, Powell is someone that I think is a perfect fit as a complimentary piece. A 3-D player and then some. I hope he is their #1 target in free agency this summer.

RE: As I said yesterday, I don't think Randle is the type that is an easy  
RicFlair : 6/7/2021 9:50 am : link
In comment 15281454 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
fit next to just any star. He is very ball dominant, and works best when the offense is centered around him.

They need to be looking for a guy that can take some of the scoring burden off of him, especially in crunch time, and can be a secondary playmaker when needed, but isn't completely reliant on being the primary ball handler. In terms of guys that are rumored to be available think Bradley Beal compared to Damian Lillard. I don't think you can stick Randle and Lillard on the court together and expect it to be an easy fit.

I also think a guy like Chris Paul if he decides to leave Phoenix, which doesn't seem likely now that they have advanced to round 2, would be a great fit because he has shown he can play effectively even when he has to take a backseat to a James Harden or Devin Booker.

I do really like the idea of Norman Powell. Regardless of who they decide to pursue as a star, Powell is someone that I think is a perfect fit as a complimentary piece. A 3-D player and then some. I hope he is their #1 target in free agency this summer.


I don’t like the idea of Randle being the reason we don’t get Dame.
RE: RE: As I said yesterday, I don't think Randle is the type that is an easy  
Mike in NJ : 6/7/2021 10:02 am : link
In comment 15281458 RicFlair said:
Quote:
In comment 15281454 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


fit next to just any star. He is very ball dominant, and works best when the offense is centered around him.

They need to be looking for a guy that can take some of the scoring burden off of him, especially in crunch time, and can be a secondary playmaker when needed, but isn't completely reliant on being the primary ball handler. In terms of guys that are rumored to be available think Bradley Beal compared to Damian Lillard. I don't think you can stick Randle and Lillard on the court together and expect it to be an easy fit.

I also think a guy like Chris Paul if he decides to leave Phoenix, which doesn't seem likely now that they have advanced to round 2, would be a great fit because he has shown he can play effectively even when he has to take a backseat to a James Harden or Devin Booker.

I do really like the idea of Norman Powell. Regardless of who they decide to pursue as a star, Powell is someone that I think is a perfect fit as a complimentary piece. A 3-D player and then some. I hope he is their #1 target in free agency this summer.




I don’t like the idea of Randle being the reason we don’t get Dame.


If he is available then you absolutely make the trade and figure out how to make it work. We did see first hand with Stat and Carmelo (when Amare actually suited up) though that you can't just stick two stars on the court and expect it to be a good fit.

I mentioned it before the season when people were clamoring for a Randle trade, and it is even more true after how he played this season, I don't think he is going anywhere so they need to figure out the best way to build around him. It was clear that Rose and crew were placing a ton of value on CAA/Kentucky guys, and Randle checks both of those boxes. He is here to stay so how do we maximize the team we put around him?
not sure  
hitdog42 : 6/7/2021 11:30 am : link
the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.
RE: not sure  
Heisenberg : 6/7/2021 12:56 pm : link
In comment 15281538 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.


RJ not a reliable 3pt shooter? Might want to check the numbers on that one.

There are definitely valid questions about his ceiling but he's clearly as good as any young player that has been traded for a star recently. He improved in basically every aspect of his game and is a really solid defender too.

And I think you're overrating the value of the players who have been traded for star players. Stars don't get traded for stars in the NBA. Nets didn't give up anyone special to get Harden. SGA is probably the best player I can think of to get traded in one of these deals recently and he took a huge step forward after the trade.

Knicks definitely have enough to make a deal. I'd personally probably prefer one more season of asset acquisition.
RE: not sure  
Strahan91 : 6/7/2021 12:59 pm : link
In comment 15281538 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.

This makes no sense. RJ doesn't have trade value? Toppin is a throw in? What team that would be in the market for a star this offseason (so no OKC) via trade could put together a better package? Boston if they're willing to trade Brown (unlikely), maybe GS depending on how the other team feels about Wiseman, Miami no, Dallas no, LA Teams no, etc etc...
RE: RE: not sure  
Strahan91 : 6/7/2021 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15281592 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 15281538 hitdog42 said:


Quote:


the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.



RJ not a reliable 3pt shooter? Might want to check the numbers on that one.

There are definitely valid questions about his ceiling but he's clearly as good as any young player that has been traded for a star recently. He improved in basically every aspect of his game and is a really solid defender too.

And I think you're overrating the value of the players who have been traded for star players. Stars don't get traded for stars in the NBA. Nets didn't give up anyone special to get Harden. SGA is probably the best player I can think of to get traded in one of these deals recently and he took a huge step forward after the trade.

And SGA likely wouldn't have been included in a deal for George in a vacuum but they got Kawhi + George essentially.
RE: RE: not sure  
Mike in NJ : 6/7/2021 1:17 pm : link
In comment 15281592 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 15281538 hitdog42 said:


Quote:


the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.



RJ not a reliable 3pt shooter? Might want to check the numbers on that one.

There are definitely valid questions about his ceiling but he's clearly as good as any young player that has been traded for a star recently. He improved in basically every aspect of his game and is a really solid defender too.

And I think you're overrating the value of the players who have been traded for star players. Stars don't get traded for stars in the NBA. Nets didn't give up anyone special to get Harden. SGA is probably the best player I can think of to get traded in one of these deals recently and he took a huge step forward after the trade.

Knicks definitely have enough to make a deal. I'd personally probably prefer one more season of asset acquisition.


Was going to say this as well. Barrett was a 40% 3 point shooter, what more do we want from him there?

The Nets got James Harden in a deal packaged around Caris LeVert, it’s not like you need a Zion level young player to put in a deal....
People are going to be skeptical of RJ until he adds consistency  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2021 1:24 pm : link
He was a 40% catch and shooter for about 50 games. That's progress. He would HAVE to be in a deal but I don't think his season is changing anyone's mind about him around the league. He didn't really help his case in the playoffs either.

Hope he keeps growing. Needs to learn to shoot off the dribble and finish reliably at the rim.
RE: People are going to be skeptical of RJ until he adds consistency  
hitdog42 : 6/7/2021 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15281624 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
He was a 40% catch and shooter for about 50 games. That's progress. He would HAVE to be in a deal but I don't think his season is changing anyone's mind about him around the league. He didn't really help his case in the playoffs either.

Hope he keeps growing. Needs to learn to shoot off the dribble and finish reliably at the rim.


thank you for a non defensive response- analytics dont like his shooting either. he still needs to prove himself. he improved this year but there are a lot of questions still when we are talking centerpiece of a blockbuster trade. toppin has been given limited opportunity and proved nothing in those.

players like SVG and Halliburton are young guys who could be centerpieces (even though they would be unlikely destinations). thus the point the big part of any knicks trade would be all of their picks.

RE: RE: People are going to be skeptical of RJ until he adds consistency  
Heisenberg : 6/7/2021 1:52 pm : link
In comment 15281632 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
In comment 15281624 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


He was a 40% catch and shooter for about 50 games. That's progress. He would HAVE to be in a deal but I don't think his season is changing anyone's mind about him around the league. He didn't really help his case in the playoffs either.

Hope he keeps growing. Needs to learn to shoot off the dribble and finish reliably at the rim.



thank you for a non defensive response- analytics dont like his shooting either. he still needs to prove himself. he improved this year but there are a lot of questions still when we are talking centerpiece of a blockbuster trade. toppin has been given limited opportunity and proved nothing in those.

players like SVG and Halliburton are young guys who could be centerpieces (even though they would be unlikely destinations). thus the point the big part of any knicks trade would be all of their picks.


Where do analytics not like RJs Shooting?

It's not really accurate to say that RJ was a 40% catch and shoot guy for 50 games. He was actually .401% for the whole 72 game season. If you drop the five games from December, his season pct is .425, which would be top 20. If you want a 50 game sample, in 51 games since Feb 1, he shot .443, which would be top 10.

Facts aren't really defensive. They're just facts.

He definitely needs to add shooting off the dribble and finishing. His personal skills trainer has said they'll be working on precisely that. There are ceiling questions, too. But to pretend he's not a good an ascending player who is as good as the other young guys who have been in superstar trades is kind of odd.
KP is really getting roasted.  
bceagle05 : 6/7/2021 2:11 pm : link
That’s a shame.
t/s %  
hitdog42 : 6/7/2021 2:11 pm : link
effective FG percentage
RE: RE: RE: not sure  
widmerseyebrow : 6/7/2021 2:12 pm : link
In comment 15281614 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
The Nets got James Harden in a deal packaged around Caris LeVert, it’s not like you need a Zion level young player to put in a deal....


This is a good point.

I also think it's premature to put Obi in the Knox category of trade throw-ins. He flashed a little towards the end of the season. Of course he shouldn't hold a deal up, but you'd really selling low on him at this point.
According  
Jon in NYC : 6/7/2021 2:32 pm : link
to Berman it sounds like there's mutual interest in Oubre.

Also it sounds like RJ would be the centerpiece of any Lillard deal, which is understandable.
RE: According  
Strahan91 : 6/7/2021 3:06 pm : link
In comment 15281693 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
to Berman it sounds like there's mutual interest in Oubre.

Also it sounds like RJ would be the centerpiece of any Lillard deal, which is understandable.

Not too excited about Oubre. He's a fine player but they don't need any more inconsistent offensive players.
He had an awful season in 21  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2021 3:14 pm : link
but he's generally been regarded as a good 3/D guy.

As always, what's the cost. Might be an option on a short term "let me rebuild my value" type contract.
RE: t/s %  
Heisenberg : 6/7/2021 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15281680 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
effective FG percentage


Yeah, for RJ it's still not very good. However, it did get a lot better this year than last. Really similar improvement to what Brandon Ingram did from year 1 (terrible) to year two (below average). RJ will really need to improve finishing and getting to the line to continue to improve his TS.
RE: RE: RE: RE: not sure  
Strahan91 : 6/7/2021 3:24 pm : link
In comment 15281683 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 15281614 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


The Nets got James Harden in a deal packaged around Caris LeVert, it’s not like you need a Zion level young player to put in a deal....



This is a good point.

I also think it's premature to put Obi in the Knox category of trade throw-ins. He flashed a little towards the end of the season. Of course he shouldn't hold a deal up, but you'd really selling low on him at this point.

Who was the last superstar-level prospect to get traded in a blockbuster for an established one? Ingram and SGA are both really good but they took major steps forward on their new teams. Hindsight is 20/20. You have those two, LeVert, DeRozan (which was an odd choice by SA given where they were then), Tobias Harris (for Griffin).
RE: KP is really getting roasted.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/7/2021 4:28 pm : link
In comment 15281678 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
That’s a shame.


Tim McMahon has an article on ESPN.com about the Mavs and Porzingis. He somehow manages to come across as more self-absorbed and delusional than he was with the Knicks. If you can’t get along with a championship winning coach or the franchise’s star, then you might be the problem.
If they have any shot  
MookGiants : 6/7/2021 4:54 pm : link
at Lillard obviously Barrett would have to be the centerpiece. The sixers are the team I would worry about with him if he does get traded. Lillard and Embiid together would be hard to beat. Those two would fit damn nearly perfectly. Simmons has warts but if given the choice I'd rather Simmons than Barrett
RE: not sure  
MookGiants : 6/7/2021 4:56 pm : link
In comment 15281538 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
the knicks youth is the type people would be looking for---- the draft picks yes.
RJ is slow twitch and not a reliable 3pt shooter- he has to prove his style works as a #3 or better on a contender to be a piece for a big name.
Toppin is a throw in as of now-
IQ probably has good value given the style fits the current NBA.
Next year i could see the knicks pieces having much more value if each guy takes a step. before then its mostly the picks.


He doesn't have to prove that to get a big name. The Nets gave up less to get Harden. It just all depends on how ugly the situation gets in Portland and if he's willing to just force his way out like Harden was.

The Nets package was shit, but there wasnt really anywhere else for him to go.

If I'm the sixers i would push to trade Simmons for Lillard.
RE: RE: KP is really getting roasted.  
Leg of Theismann : 6/7/2021 5:02 pm : link
In comment 15281755 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15281678 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


That’s a shame.



Tim McMahon has an article on ESPN.com about the Mavs and Porzingis. He somehow manages to come across as more self-absorbed and delusional than he was with the Knicks. If you can’t get along with a championship winning coach or the franchise’s star, then you might be the problem.


Ugh. Good riddance. I honestly think we got the better side of that deal. And everyone seems to say “well but think of what Porzingis COULD be” IF he werent injured, IF he weren’t injury prone, IF he were on the right team, IF he could become more aggressive, IF he could learn to drive to the basket and/or get in the paint more... there are a million players in the history of the league who IF they could have done this or that could’ve been great players... but they weren’t. I agree I think Porzingis is the problem because there’s a “problem” everywhere he goes.
The ship's sailed on KP  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2021 5:44 pm : link
The injuries have taken away some of his lateral movement, so he's not the rim protector he used to be. He will never chose to play in the post and doesn't have the game to do so. He's a perimeter player but he does nothing else but shoot.
Thibs coach of the year  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 7:35 pm : link
..
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/7/2021 8:21 pm : link
Even without Harden, Nets look unstoppable.
RE: ...  
nygiants16 : 6/7/2021 8:28 pm : link
In comment 15281906 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Even without Harden, Nets look unstoppable.


Bucks will always be a 2nd round exit with Giannis as their nukber 1 and Midleton their number 2 and Budenholzer as their coach..
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/7/2021 8:44 pm : link
I don't see who is beating the Nets, unless their Big Three is all on the shelf. Too much firepower.
I can see why Giannis wanted Bogdanovic so badly.  
bceagle05 : 6/7/2021 9:06 pm : link
What a bunch of stiffs on that squad.
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