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Using Toney

TC : 6/3/2021 1:38 pm
Assuming he has, and keeps his head on straight, Toney is such a varied weapon. A lot of folks seem to regard him mainly as a slot option, but if he develops and plays to his potential, that would seem to be a waste. It's reasonable to see him on returns initially as he develops, but I hope he is eventually used creatively to maximize his skill set rather than being confined primarily to a single role like slot, or WR #2.

Frankly, I'm not wild about the way Barkley has been used primarily as a conventional #1 RB. There are things he likes to do, and things he doesn't, and smashing between the tackles and blocking appear to be two things he's not fond of. I seem the recall that in his rookie year, a greater percentage of his use was a receiver, and he was great at it.

However, given the limited options available at RB the last couple of years, I understand why the Giants would want him handling the ball most of the time. But with the RB's the Giants have added like Booker, Clement and Armstead, I believe the Giants have a lot more potential hard-nosed RB talent on the team to share more of the heavy lifting.

I want to see him getting the ball more in space, and this is where I see the potential synergy between he and Toney. How many different play options could the Giants run with both these guys in backfield at the same time? It seems almost limitless, and that could really stress opposing defenses.

Either guy could take a pitch while the other guy went out on a pattern. Both guys could motion out, and the Giants send 5 receivers against the defense from and empty backfield. I.e., Golladay, Shepard. Slayton, Saquon and Toney, all of whom would need to be covered. That's a tough job. Or, of course, one could just take a hand off, while the other takes a fake.


Yup, totally agree!  
HopePhil and Optimistic : 6/3/2021 1:50 pm : link
I’d also consider replacing Shep with Rudolph on early downs to show run and force defenses to play an additional LB vs a DB. That might make it easier to get the ball to our weapons in space. Than go hurry up to prevent defensive substitutions.

Either way, Barkley and Toney in the backfield with Gollady and Slayton out wide provides lots of opportunities for a creative, explosive game planning.
With Barkley and Toney in the backfield  
Dr. D : 6/3/2021 2:01 pm : link
and Golladay and Slayton out wide, hard to imagine of those 4, last yr we only had Slayton.

Add the big two way TE red zone target, who never drops the ball, Rudolph, and that's an hell of an upgrade.

If these guys stay relatively healthy, how can DJ and this offense NOT be significantly better than last yr?
Just curious why  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/3/2021 2:12 pm : link
you think that the slot, as a primary use of a WR, is wasteful?

A lot of #1 WRs in today's NFL do much of their work as their team's slot receiver. It's often a way to generate significant mismatch opportunities and opens up a lot of gadget plays (like jet sweeps) that you don't get from the outside positions.

If anything, trying to shoehorn a dynamic receiver into the X or Z spots is the limitation, rather than the other way around, IMO.
RE: Just curious why  
giants#1 : 6/3/2021 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15279360 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
you think that the slot, as a primary use of a WR, is wasteful?

A lot of #1 WRs in today's NFL do much of their work as their team's slot receiver. It's often a way to generate significant mismatch opportunities and opens up a lot of gadget plays (like jet sweeps) that you don't get from the outside positions.

If anything, trying to shoehorn a dynamic receiver into the X or Z spots is the limitation, rather than the other way around, IMO.


He probably thinks slot = Edelman

Instead of equating the 'slot' position with a player like Tyreek Hill.
I agree in the slot  
Lines of Scrimmage : 6/3/2021 2:20 pm : link
Scenario is 3rd and long with SB in the backfield. Teams have been blitzing and will continue doing it.

You have weapons that can stretch the field and hit the intermediate areas.

I see Toney (widely praised for ability to make people miss) being used just behind the LB's (where 1 or more has blitzed) and doing some damage.

I think the Giants have the potential with their WR/TE group to really challenge the whole field.
RE: Just curious why  
TC : 6/3/2021 2:22 pm : link
In comment 15279360 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
you think that the slot, as a primary use of a WR, is wasteful?

A lot of #1 WRs in today's NFL do much of their work as their team's slot receiver. It's often a way to generate significant mismatch opportunities and opens up a lot of gadget plays (like jet sweeps) that you don't get from the outside positions.

If anything, trying to shoehorn a dynamic receiver into the X or Z spots is the limitation, rather than the other way around, IMO.

I think he can certainly play slot, but he can do a lot of other things most slots can't do, or at least can't do well, such as line up in backfield as an effective and explosive RB. And my understanding is that is was moved all around in school, so I don't think it would be "shoehorning" him into a role he isn't already familiar with. Just seems a bit of a waste not to exploit a somewhat unique skill set to its maximum.
I.e, I hope he's not confined to mainly just one position,  
TC : 6/3/2021 2:24 pm : link
but moved around the field.
RE: I.e, I hope he's not confined to mainly just one position,  
Lines of Scrimmage : 6/3/2021 2:27 pm : link
In comment 15279370 TC said:
Quote:
but moved around the field.


Agree. I think we see much more creativity this year.
I think they’ll try and get him into the WR rotation asap  
BillT : 6/3/2021 2:27 pm : link
Im sure they will use him in special plays and given he has more experience in the slot he could be used there more initially. However, I think they will want him out there in the slot, on the outside or in motion. The more reps he gets in more positions the tougher he is to defend. He’s a weapon and finding places to use him will be important.
i would like to see the Giants rotate these 6 receivers in fresh  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/3/2021 3:37 pm : link
3 for 3 and wear down the defenses with pure speed on every passing play
see him not married to a single position  
Matt M. : 6/3/2021 6:44 pm : link
He can play the slot and probably will probably be there most often. But, he can also play outside and probably some at RB in very specific packages. I see him in motion or shifting a lot. He will also have a chance to impact games returning punts and kicks. I'm sure they will ease him in, b he will be a vital part of this offense, surpassing Slayton and maybe Shepard.
Took this from a recent article on Toney  
BSIMatt : 6/3/2021 7:36 pm : link
Toney’s College Snap Count:
Slot Receiver: 724 (523 in 2020)
Wide Receiver: 401 (123 in 2020)
Backfield: 34 (23 in 2020)
Quarterback: 34 (0 in 2020)
Inline: 8 (5 in 2020)
RE: see him not married to a single position  
TC : 6/3/2021 8:00 pm : link
In comment 15279512 Matt M. said:
Quote:
He can play the slot and probably will probably be there most often. But, he can also play outside and probably some at RB in very specific packages. I see him in motion or shifting a lot. He will also have a chance to impact games returning punts and kicks. I'm sure they will ease him in, b he will be a vital part of this offense, surpassing Slayton and maybe Shepard.

That's exactly what I'm hoping.
The parts working together as a whole is intriguing.  
mittenedman : 6/3/2021 9:10 pm : link
Judge said they'd implement what Florida did w/Toney.

Lots of counter flow and misdirection. This can be effective with Barkley - get the D flowing 1 way and throw the other way to Toney. The D will have to respect Barkley.

The perimeter blocking with Golladay, Rudolph & Shepard seals the deal.

Get him working off Barkley and he can be a major pain in the ass.
I think Barkley's injuries and  
bLiTz 2k : 6/3/2021 10:06 pm : link
The instability of the team have contributed him from developing certain parts of his game. It hasn't been ideal for anybody.

I do like Burton Burns, and his hire specifically had me excited for the potential of progressing his skills in pass blocking.

I also completely disagree with the notion that he "doesn't like to block or run inside"...that's not fair at all. We haven't seen the progression but it's not for a lack of effort..


In terms of Toney, expectations as a rookie are tempered, but the thing about him that excited ME the most is his one cut in his route running. He has the ability to juke corners out of their cleats on his first cut, leaving him absurdly open.

His issues with route running are also because of this. He can be so good at shaking dbs on the route, he doesn't always end up where the QB expects him on the route. If he can marry those two together, he can literally play every skill position on the offense - X, Y, Z, HB etc.

This is a player that will time could be (and should be) on the field for every offensive snap eventually.
very simple put the ball in his hands  
BBWreckingCrew : 6/4/2021 7:06 am : link
and let him eat
Barkley has never been a moved the chains type of  
joeinpa : 6/4/2021 8:53 am : link
Guy;.

His style has always been big play oriented. You often seem him hesitating, passing up the 2 , 3 yard gain, looking to break one.

That s how he was at Penn State, that s how he s been with the Giants.

He ll hit the big play if given some room, but his dancing leads to negative plays as well,

RE: With Barkley and Toney in the backfield  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 6/4/2021 8:59 am : link
In comment 15279355 Dr. D said:
Quote:
and Golladay and Slayton out wide, hard to imagine of those 4, last yr we only had Slayton.

Add the big two way TE red zone target, who never drops the ball, Rudolph, and that's an hell of an upgrade.

If these guys stay relatively healthy, how can DJ and this offense NOT be significantly better than last yr?


It all depends on the growth of the OL.
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