Good to see some common sense being applied. No political motives here, just passing along some important info. Pretty awesome how far we are coming along as we get back to normal.
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
I think it's probably because they're calling for a heatwave next week and a lot of schools aren't air conditioned.
and, I'm not sure that I agree with it at all. A friend's son's lacrosse team just had 4 players go into quarantine because of a seed at school.
How so? The numbers are so low and it's going to be very hot next week. I have friends on both sides of the aisle that have been begging for masks mandates to be lifted for kids. Your comment was unnecessary and incorrect.
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
I just got a note from our Super in CT that they may have to close school next week if the heat is bad enough. We still have a mask mandate but I draw the line with the heat. I've told my daughter that if she gets uncomfortable with it on, to take it off and if there are any issues her teacher can call us.
Absolutely no way in hell i'm telling her to keep it on in the heat.
But, the school year should not be going into June when most of these schools don’t have AC. Makes no sense. Just run the school year from the Tuesday after Labor Day up until Memorial Day weekend.
But, the school year should not be going into June when most of these schools don’t have AC. Makes no sense. Just run the school year from the Tuesday after Labor Day up until Memorial Day weekend.
I don't get it either. If teachers are still getting their normal time off as per their contract it shouldn't matter when that time is.
Its also preposterous that schools can't even get window units installed but that's for a whole other thread.
but with the majority (?) of these kids not likely vaccinated and with the school year almost over, it seems a silly thing to do.
(again, if the heat wave is driving this move, then it makes more sense)
I am fully vaccinated and am taking full advantage of that fact but still, I am more than happy to wear a mask on the PATH or public places (and airplanes when I eventually get to go somewhere!)
its annoying to wear a mask but it isn't life altering.
I live in NJ and per my weather app, the highs for next week are currently 91, 90, 90, 81, 73. The lows are 68, 70, 70, 63, 59. That's not out of the norm for late spring / early summer.
I think the indoor mask mandate makes sense but my school district mandates that you keep them on outside, even if you're vaccinated, which makes no sense. At drop off and pick up, you see a bunch of parents and kids standing around outside spread out wearing masks. That's just unnecessary hygiene theater.
High schoolers should suck it up by I’m not telling my 5 year old that. We are both vaxxed and kids are low risk as it is. What happens when a kid passes out or worse?
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
I just got a note from our Super in CT that they may have to close school next week if the heat is bad enough. We still have a mask mandate but I draw the line with the heat. I've told my daughter that if she gets uncomfortable with it on, to take it off and if there are any issues her teacher can call us.
Absolutely no way in hell i'm telling her to keep it on in the heat.
If the heat is that bad and they have no A/C they should just switch to virtual instruction.
as much as it sucks for us I'd rather that than the alternatives.
Its also worth noting kids are going to be spending a lot more time together when camp starts - longer days, less supervision, and tons of "shared" objects. So stopping masks with 1 weeks to go in school doesn't mean much - they will likely be transmitting at higher levels over the summer.
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Yikes. I'm don't know whether to be happy or jealous I got out of high school when I did.
My old high school had the asbestos issue and if you were 14-18 in that window for the last few years, your whole high school experience was fucked up. Split days, COVID. No prom. No graduation. What a mess within those 4 years.
I only say I'm jealous because with all this going on, I just wouldn't ever show up lol you're not missing anything. Proud to be New Jersey.
Oh yeah and now if kids have a ton snow, you still have to do classes online?
How sad.
Blah. Still wouldn't "show up" lol.
It would have been worth it if you could trade the last month or school of so to do at home. Absolutely brutal and can't believe we expect kids to learn in that environment. In fact I remember the last month of school essentially being bunch of bullshit because of the heat.
I remember one year I got out the 25th or the 26th. It had to be in 2003 when we had that huge blizzard and we were out for a week in February. By the time your High School "career" rolled around, you could almost plan your own schedule.
By Junior, Senior year, majority of the schedule were electives and gym. So when exams rolled around you could just leave early or there were no exams worth showing up for on certain days. Some of the teachers who taught the elective classes even allowed us to take the exams early on because they wanted to get the fuck out of there LOL
I remember taking two math classes or two Sciences classes in one year just to get them over with. I have no idea if they still allow stuff like that. I am 100% out of the loop.
will bypass the Governor's mandate and wait for the NYS or county health department's directives. With so little time left in the school year, this seems short-sighted to me. Especially for the under-12 age group that hasn't been able to get vaccinated yet. Politics aside on BBI, there have been some very "interesting" moves by Cuomo that a lot of people don't agree with here in NY.
"Current evidence demonstrates that consistent mask use indoors among people two and older who are not fully vaccinated, along with other preventive strategies, is key to reducing the spread of COVID-19."
Oh yeah and now if kids have a ton snow, you still have to do classes online?
How sad.
Blah. Still wouldn't "show up" lol.
One of my favorite snow days memories was in high school me and two of my friends crushed a handle of wild turkey and half fifth of svedka while his mom was away on business. Many drunken snow day activities where to be had that day.
Case rates are dropping. It's time to get back to normal.
Over 46% of New Yorkers are fully vaxxed at over 54% have at least one shot. Add that to the over 10% of people who have had the disease and that's a big majority that have at least some immunity.
Today's seven day moving average of daily cases is 648, or just over 3 per 100,000. That's roughly 20% of what it was 30 days ago.
Everyone 12 and over can get the vaccine. The mRNA shots are 95% effective. If you are fully vaccinated, your risk from COVID-19 is very very small
Children 9 and under have very little risk from COVID-19 and are much less likely to spread it.
I have tremendous respect for the CDC, but everyone should understand that, as an organization, they are very risk averse. They're the ones who tell you that eggs must be cooked with hard yolks and hamburgers need to be at least medium well.
Well said. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the CDC, but as you said, it's an overly cautious agency. And I get it...that's their job. I don't give them hell either for the mixed messages last spring because we were pretty much flying blind. But it's time to get back to normal.
RE: Case rates are dropping. It's time to get back to normal.
Over 46% of New Yorkers are fully vaxxed at over 54% have at least one shot. Add that to the over 10% of people who have had the disease and that's a big majority that have at least some immunity.
Today's seven day moving average of daily cases is 648, or just over 3 per 100,000. That's roughly 20% of what it was 30 days ago.
Everyone 12 and over can get the vaccine. The mRNA shots are 95% effective. If you are fully vaccinated, your risk from COVID-19 is very very small
Children 9 and under have very little risk from COVID-19 and are much less likely to spread it.
I have tremendous respect for the CDC, but everyone should understand that, as an organization, they are very risk averse. They're the ones who tell you that eggs must be cooked with hard yolks and hamburgers need to be at least medium well.
Right 50% of Americans (and almost all of those that want it and need it, except for the immunocompromised) have had a vaccination and 1 in 3 Americans have already had it. At this point, if you don't relax mask-wearing, you may as well just wear masks year round to protect from flu deaths. Some people are just naturally nervous nellies.
Saying that schools should wait one additional week...
are really something. Comparing cooking hamburgers to a worldwide pandemic. Nervous Nellie's. Not being "risk averse" at the very beginning got us to this point. Good lord.
RE: RE: Case rates are dropping. It's time to get back to normal.
Over 46% of New Yorkers are fully vaxxed at over 54% have at least one shot. Add that to the over 10% of people who have had the disease and that's a big majority that have at least some immunity.
Today's seven day moving average of daily cases is 648, or just over 3 per 100,000. That's roughly 20% of what it was 30 days ago.
Everyone 12 and over can get the vaccine. The mRNA shots are 95% effective. If you are fully vaccinated, your risk from COVID-19 is very very small
Children 9 and under have very little risk from COVID-19 and are much less likely to spread it.
I have tremendous respect for the CDC, but everyone should understand that, as an organization, they are very risk averse. They're the ones who tell you that eggs must be cooked with hard yolks and hamburgers need to be at least medium well.
Right 50% of Americans (and almost all of those that want it and need it, except for the immunocompromised) have had a vaccination and 1 in 3 Americans have already had it. At this point, if you don't relax mask-wearing, you may as well just wear masks year round to protect from flu deaths. Some people are just naturally nervous nellies.
I just hope they couple dropping mask requirements fro vaccine requirements for schools, public offices, extracurricular, including travel youth sports, etc.
When do you think they drop wearing masks on planes/trains/buses?
No clue. But I expect airplanes to maybe be the last considering international travel still has to be worked out. Unless they set different rules for domestic vs international. But, then again, I really really want them to check vaccination status during the tsa check in and act appropriately. Either enforce mask, or better still make vaccination a requirment to board.
The one pro of all this, is that mask wearing while sick is going to
be socially expected. You go into a room a coughing fit and not wearing a mask, everyone is going to think you're an asshole. It's not going to stop all, but I expect much more mask-wearing in the future.
RE: RE: Case rates are dropping. It's time to get back to normal.
Over 46% of New Yorkers are fully vaxxed at over 54% have at least one shot. Add that to the over 10% of people who have had the disease and that's a big majority that have at least some immunity.
Today's seven day moving average of daily cases is 648, or just over 3 per 100,000. That's roughly 20% of what it was 30 days ago.
Everyone 12 and over can get the vaccine. The mRNA shots are 95% effective. If you are fully vaccinated, your risk from COVID-19 is very very small
Children 9 and under have very little risk from COVID-19 and are much less likely to spread it.
I have tremendous respect for the CDC, but everyone should understand that, as an organization, they are very risk averse. They're the ones who tell you that eggs must be cooked with hard yolks and hamburgers need to be at least medium well.
Right 50% of Americans (and almost all of those that want it and need it, except for the immunocompromised) have had a vaccination and 1 in 3 Americans have already had it. At this point, if you don't relax mask-wearing, you may as well just wear masks year round to protect from flu deaths. Some people are just naturally nervous nellies.
I don't know if those vaccinations stats are correct, but even if they are, wasn't the desired threshold at least 70% vaccinated?
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Agreed, especially with vaccines only opened to 12-15 year olds this week. Allo more time for them to be vaccinated. Finish out this year and drop it for next year.
RE: RE: RE: Case rates are dropping. It's time to get back to normal.
Over 46% of New Yorkers are fully vaxxed at over 54% have at least one shot. Add that to the over 10% of people who have had the disease and that's a big majority that have at least some immunity.
Today's seven day moving average of daily cases is 648, or just over 3 per 100,000. That's roughly 20% of what it was 30 days ago.
Everyone 12 and over can get the vaccine. The mRNA shots are 95% effective. If you are fully vaccinated, your risk from COVID-19 is very very small
Children 9 and under have very little risk from COVID-19 and are much less likely to spread it.
I have tremendous respect for the CDC, but everyone should understand that, as an organization, they are very risk averse. They're the ones who tell you that eggs must be cooked with hard yolks and hamburgers need to be at least medium well.
Right 50% of Americans (and almost all of those that want it and need it, except for the immunocompromised) have had a vaccination and 1 in 3 Americans have already had it. At this point, if you don't relax mask-wearing, you may as well just wear masks year round to protect from flu deaths. Some people are just naturally nervous nellies.
I just hope they couple dropping mask requirements fro vaccine requirements for schools, public offices, extracurricular, including travel youth sports, etc.
Bill - agreed. It won't happen, but teachers should have to get vaccinated. The UFT had reason after reason, based on very little, to close schools, keep people home, etc. yet won't ask their members to vaccinated and won't allow principals or the DOE inquire about vaccination status.
RE: RE: RE: Case rates are dropping. It's time to get back to normal.
Right 50% of Americans (and almost all of those that want it and need it, except for the immunocompromised) have had a vaccination and 1 in 3 Americans have already had it. At this point, if you don't relax mask-wearing, you may as well just wear masks year round to protect from flu deaths. Some people are just naturally nervous nellies.
I don't know if those vaccinations stats are correct, but even if they are, wasn't the desired threshold at least 70% vaccinated?
5 days a week full classes since early april. Not one case and if you think these kids aren't moving their masks, picking their noses, getting spit all over everything and touching each other... I got a bridge to sell you. The least vulnerable, low infection rate ages should have never been wearing masks. Never made sense.
What are the probabilities associated with schoolchildren...
A) getting the virus, given my understanding that they are less likely to contract it?
B) spread the virus to other children, given my understanding that they are much less likely to transmit it and contract it?
C) spread the virus to more vulnerable populations, given high vaccination rates amongst those demographics?
D) become ill, given the (thankfully) very low documented likelihood of hospitalization rates and death?
Based upon the data it would seem as though the downside probabilities to our youth shedding their COVID masks are not dissimilar and may even be lower than those of other infectious diseases, of which we don’t prescribe the same precautionary measures.
If we’re no longer worried about Junior killing grandma or any responsible adult for that matter (assuming getting vaxxed qualifies as responsible), then what are the negative outcomes we’re looking to prevent?
And “just wait another freaking week,” doesn’t come off as very scientific.
and like I mentioned above, camp starts soon. While outside kids are going to be sharing things again, spending possibly 2x as much time with each other than they did in school, and their hygiene will fall by the wayside. The risk doesn’t just go away when school is out until they go back in a free months - it’s arguably going to be higher for many over the summer.
What are the probabilities associated with schoolchildren...
A) getting the virus, given my understanding that they are less likely to contract it?
B) spread the virus to other children, given my understanding that they are much less likely to transmit it and contract it?
C) spread the virus to more vulnerable populations, given high vaccination rates amongst those demographics?
D) become ill, given the (thankfully) very low documented likelihood of hospitalization rates and death?
Based upon the data it would seem as though the downside probabilities to our youth shedding their COVID masks are not dissimilar and may even be lower than those of other infectious diseases, of which we don’t prescribe the same precautionary measures.
If we’re no longer worried about Junior killing grandma or any responsible adult for that matter (assuming getting vaxxed qualifies as responsible), then what are the negative outcomes we’re looking to prevent?
And “just wait another freaking week,” doesn’t come off as very scientific.
I don’t think you’re wrong, is probabilities right? We’re currently involved in a large national study on children with a condition called multi inflammatory syndrome in children. It’s a COVID caused syndrome which can have severe, possibly fatal consequences. There are a fair number of children enrolled in the study. Overall, it’s a very low frequency occurrence, but, hey, what if it’s my kid.
Gary is right on point. Its not based on what time of the school year it is. Covid, like measles, and flu, is likely to be with us permanently. But the incidence of contraction and hospitalizations has dropped to a point, that its time to get back to business.
Now if we could just get the 20% who are hold outs, we would be in even better shape.
What are the probabilities associated with schoolchildren...
A) getting the virus, given my understanding that they are less likely to contract it?
B) spread the virus to other children, given my understanding that they are much less likely to transmit it and contract it?
C) spread the virus to more vulnerable populations, given high vaccination rates amongst those demographics?
D) become ill, given the (thankfully) very low documented likelihood of hospitalization rates and death?
Based upon the data it would seem as though the downside probabilities to our youth shedding their COVID masks are not dissimilar and may even be lower than those of other infectious diseases, of which we don’t prescribe the same precautionary measures.
If we’re no longer worried about Junior killing grandma or any responsible adult for that matter (assuming getting vaxxed qualifies as responsible), then what are the negative outcomes we’re looking to prevent?
And “just wait another freaking week,” doesn’t come off as very scientific.
I don’t think you’re wrong, is probabilities right? We’re currently involved in a large national study on children with a condition called multi inflammatory syndrome in children. It’s a COVID caused syndrome which can have severe, possibly fatal consequences. There are a fair number of children enrolled in the study. Overall, it’s a very low frequency occurrence, but, hey, what if it’s my kid.
I empathize with that viewpoint, Bill, and especially with someone of your credentials which far surpass mine. I've just become increasingly displeased with sliding goalposts of public health concern, what quantifies as such, and what measures we're willing to go through to minimize them. I think the utilitarian threshold has already been reached as it relates to the a good portion of the U.S.'s populations response to the virus. At this point it seems little more than symbolic and virtue-signaling.
Then there are the endless straw men we can invent to put that question of, "what if it's my kid," into context. Under similar guise of youth safety we could surely look to question any sort of automobile travel, pool ownership, etc. And ironically, youth suicide has been exacerbated by the COVID lockdowns but many seem to skate over that negative externality of the pandemic response.
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
What are the probabilities associated with schoolchildren...
A) getting the virus, given my understanding that they are less likely to contract it?
B) spread the virus to other children, given my understanding that they are much less likely to transmit it and contract it?
C) spread the virus to more vulnerable populations, given high vaccination rates amongst those demographics?
D) become ill, given the (thankfully) very low documented likelihood of hospitalization rates and death?
Based upon the data it would seem as though the downside probabilities to our youth shedding their COVID masks are not dissimilar and may even be lower than those of other infectious diseases, of which we don’t prescribe the same precautionary measures.
If we’re no longer worried about Junior killing grandma or any responsible adult for that matter (assuming getting vaxxed qualifies as responsible), then what are the negative outcomes we’re looking to prevent?
And “just wait another freaking week,” doesn’t come off as very scientific.
I don’t think you’re wrong, is probabilities right? We’re currently involved in a large national study on children with a condition called multi inflammatory syndrome in children. It’s a COVID caused syndrome which can have severe, possibly fatal consequences. There are a fair number of children enrolled in the study. Overall, it’s a very low frequency occurrence, but, hey, what if it’s my kid.
I empathize with that viewpoint, Bill, and especially with someone of your credentials which far surpass mine. I've just become increasingly displeased with sliding goalposts of public health concern, what quantifies as such, and what measures we're willing to go through to minimize them. I think the utilitarian threshold has already been reached as it relates to the a good portion of the U.S.'s populations response to the virus. At this point it seems little more than symbolic and virtue-signaling.
Then there are the endless straw men we can invent to put that question of, "what if it's my kid," into context. Under similar guise of youth safety we could surely look to question any sort of automobile travel, pool ownership, etc. And ironically, youth suicide has been exacerbated by the COVID lockdowns but many seem to skate over that negative externality of the pandemic response.
The difference is that for those things you take a risk because you have to to get something done. In this case you can actively eliminate the risk. For this, you’re entirely in control.
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
I understand that. My wife is a special education teacher. But the vast majority of kids have roughly a week left before they are set free for the summer. It just makes more sense to me to wait until that happens. I know this isn’t scientific enough for Dr. Burberry, but common sense would say to just let the mask rules end with the school year and then everything is back to normal when they go back. I read one parent quoted as saying this was great because now the kids can take selfies and make TikToks. I mean what are we doing here? Risk is low - not non-existent. Just finish the year out.
What was a big deal and this was particularly in urban environments was the virtual teaching. It will take time but the number of Kids who fell further behind (and don't recover), got caught up in bad things, etc. will be far worse than the negative outcomes that would have occurred by them being in school imo.
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
I understand that. My wife is a special education teacher. But the vast majority of kids have roughly a week left before they are set free for the summer. It just makes more sense to me to wait until that happens. I know this isn’t scientific enough for Dr. Burberry, but common sense would say to just let the mask rules end with the school year and then everything is back to normal when they go back. I read one parent quoted as saying this was great because now the kids can take selfies and make TikToks. I mean what are we doing here? Risk is low - not non-existent. Just finish the year out.
Cool. Why doesn't common sense tell you to just keep the mask rules in place, indefinitely? Precisely, what risk will be extinguished from next week until September that is currently a threat? Alternatively, given that the relevant facts driving this decision have been known for quite a while, would common sense have led you to revoke the mask mandate weeks ago? I'd just like to identify if your common sense leaning is based upon the duration of the public policy directive or the risk quotient of the action.
I would argue that common sense would've inferred a number of other public policy decisions that were bungled by those in charge, and I would argue that keeping children in masks as long as they have been is among the many.
And I have one child in pre-school, one in kindergarten, and a preggers wife so I'm well invested in the pandemic response towards our younger population.
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
I understand that. My wife is a special education teacher. But the vast majority of kids have roughly a week left before they are set free for the summer. It just makes more sense to me to wait until that happens. I know this isn’t scientific enough for Dr. Burberry, but common sense would say to just let the mask rules end with the school year and then everything is back to normal when they go back. I read one parent quoted as saying this was great because now the kids can take selfies and make TikToks. I mean what are we doing here? Risk is low - not non-existent. Just finish the year out.
Cool. Why doesn't common sense tell you to just keep the mask rules in place, indefinitely? Precisely, what risk will be extinguished from next week until September that is currently a threat?
Why should they not keep the mask rules in place indefinitely? Because they won’t be in fucking school. That is the entire point. And then there is the entire summer to continue widespread vaccination. I feel like I am speaking another language.
for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
I understand that. My wife is a special education teacher. But the vast majority of kids have roughly a week left before they are set free for the summer. It just makes more sense to me to wait until that happens. I know this isn’t scientific enough for Dr. Burberry, but common sense would say to just let the mask rules end with the school year and then everything is back to normal when they go back. I read one parent quoted as saying this was great because now the kids can take selfies and make TikToks. I mean what are we doing here? Risk is low - not non-existent. Just finish the year out.
Cool. Why doesn't common sense tell you to just keep the mask rules in place, indefinitely? Precisely, what risk will be extinguished from next week until September that is currently a threat?
Why should they not keep the mask rules in place indefinitely? Because they won’t be in fucking school. That is the entire point. And then there is the entire summer to continue widespread vaccination. I feel like I am speaking another language.
And what is this "vast majority"? NYC is a large percentage of NYS student population and they have 3 more weeks of school.
Yet let's have teenagers wearing masks inside of an oven school all day in June. Huh? If the airspace isn't safe enough according to the winners running the show in New Jersey, just do remote learning thing for the rest of the year.
I went to school in a non-air conditioned school. Wear a mask? May I curse instead, my grandmother?
like AC's in schools is a great idea until its put up for vote in the district and then it gets shot down cause your taxes will go up $5 for the next amount of years. We just had this up for vote last year and it was shot down overwhelmingly. wonder how many of those no's are whining about heat and masks now
for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
Yet let's have teenagers wearing masks inside of an oven school all day in June. Huh? If the airspace isn't safe enough according to the winners running the show in New Jersey, just do remote learning thing for the rest of the year.
I went to school in a non-air conditioned school. Wear a mask? May I curse instead, my grandmother?
It's only anecdotal and we are not kids, but we are (well, "were" until a few weeks ago) required to wear masks for our hot yoga practices. Hotter and more humid than any school classroom. The masks don't really impact you any more than they do normally.
like AC's in schools is a great idea until its put up for vote in the district and then it gets shot down cause your taxes will go up $5 for the next amount of years. We just had this up for vote last year and it was shot down overwhelmingly. wonder how many of those no's are whining about heat and masks now
In 2019 my hometown (Stamford CT) had to close many schools for mold remediation (almost every school to varying degrees). Not sure what genius thought that its ok to have a school close for the summer with no airflow, but that's the northeast for you.
Its 2022 and we can't air condition schools in one of the wealthiest counties in the country, its absurd. But hey, they police are up for raises sitting in their brand new air conditioned Explorers.
for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, much of any year's increases in school budgets get swallowed up by increased personnel costs. There's little left for other things and then they have to do "special elections" for capital stuff. Those usually get passed because there is always an accompanying massive guilt campaign (if you vote no, you must hate children), but there is some pushback because of the double-funding. I think if there was a brake on the personnel side, you might get things like AC, etc.
I'm in CT (Fairfield county but now New Haven County)
same issue both places, its much of the northeast. I know why they aren't doing it (kicking the can down the road) but it bit Stamford when they had horrible black mold. If they aren't going to end school in May then they need to do something to deal with the heat. They also need to cool it and dehumidify them over the summer when not in use, or mold will just come back.
for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, much of any year's increases in school budgets get swallowed up by increased personnel costs. There's little left for other things and then they have to do "special elections" for capital stuff. Those usually get passed because there is always an accompanying massive guilt campaign (if you vote no, you must hate children), but there is some pushback because of the double-funding. I think if there was a brake on the personnel side, you might get things like AC, etc.
How about instead of that we just supply more money to the schools. The personnel are the ones educating our youth. It’s time we treat it like the important job it is.
for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, much of any year's increases in school budgets get swallowed up by increased personnel costs. There's little left for other things and then they have to do "special elections" for capital stuff. Those usually get passed because there is always an accompanying massive guilt campaign (if you vote no, you must hate children), but there is some pushback because of the double-funding. I think if there was a brake on the personnel side, you might get things like AC, etc.
How about instead of that we just supply more money to the schools. The personnel are the ones educating our youth. It’s time we treat it like the important job it is.
How about raising the standards? Pay the best people through a challenging merit system. Weed out the marginal to average performers.
This concept has served the military and pro sports well. The state and local govt's have far too many people where doing just enough is acceptable. It would be more cost effective and the savings then could then be applied to improved work environment and programs that will improve teaching the kids. Never happen with these unions.
for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, much of any year's increases in school budgets get swallowed up by increased personnel costs. There's little left for other things and then they have to do "special elections" for capital stuff. Those usually get passed because there is always an accompanying massive guilt campaign (if you vote no, you must hate children), but there is some pushback because of the double-funding. I think if there was a brake on the personnel side, you might get things like AC, etc.
How about instead of that we just supply more money to the schools. The personnel are the ones educating our youth. It’s time we treat it like the important job it is.
How about raising the standards? Pay the best people through a challenging merit system. Weed out the marginal to average performers.
This concept has served the military and pro sports well. The state and local govt's have far too many people where doing just enough is acceptable. It would be more cost effective and the savings then could then be applied to improved work environment and programs that will improve teaching the kids. Never happen with these unions.
As long as its across the board for any govt employee.
How come we never hear complaints about other govt employees getting raises, but always when it’s teachers.
and like I mentioned above, camp starts soon. While outside kids are going to be sharing things again, spending possibly 2x as much time with each other than they did in school, and their hygiene will fall by the wayside. The risk doesn’t just go away when school is out until they go back in a free months - it’s arguably going to be higher for many over the summer.
The risk of it spreading outdoors is much lower than indoors, even if protocols are loosened. Especially looking at the seasonality of it.
It should be applied across the board. You will raise the overall quality when people know that you are not entitled to the next year(s) and it opens up good jobs for those entering the workforce.
It should be applied across the board. You will raise the overall quality when people know that you are not entitled to the next year(s) and it opens up good jobs for those entering the workforce.
Sounds ok, but should this really have to be done to put AC in our schools?
You’re right. The only option is no raises for teachers vs ac for kids.
I think it's going to vary based on many different things in every school district. I think it is really hard for you to say "just do this" without even knowing how much people are already making, the circumstances of the district, the amount people are already taxed, etc. Merely being reflexive and have a one size fits all doesn't work IMO.
I'll trust the science, but I dont understand how kids 9 and under
Is it something about their youth really making them more resistant or is it just they are the most compliant group with regards to masks because its easier to make them comply.
Either way I'm happy to loosen the restriction for kids that age, its is definitely getting to the point where the cure is worse than the disease for young children. They did their part, time for them to live.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: School called earlier today
for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, much of any year's increases in school budgets get swallowed up by increased personnel costs. There's little left for other things and then they have to do "special elections" for capital stuff. Those usually get passed because there is always an accompanying massive guilt campaign (if you vote no, you must hate children), but there is some pushback because of the double-funding. I think if there was a brake on the personnel side, you might get things like AC, etc.
How about instead of that we just supply more money to the schools. The personnel are the ones educating our youth. It’s time we treat it like the important job it is.
How about raising the standards? Pay the best people through a challenging merit system. Weed out the marginal to average performers.
This concept has served the military and pro sports well. The state and local govt's have far too many people where doing just enough is acceptable. It would be more cost effective and the savings then could then be applied to improved work environment and programs that will improve teaching the kids. Never happen with these unions.
As long as its across the board for any govt employee.
How come we never hear complaints about other govt employees getting raises, but always when it’s teachers.
FYI and speaking as a gov't employee, I'm not sure what raises you're talking about. It's been at least 4 years since we had any change our pay.
Is it something about their youth really making them more resistant or is it just they are the most compliant group with regards to masks because its easier to make them comply.
Either way I'm happy to loosen the restriction for kids that age, its is definitely getting to the point where the cure is worse than the disease for young children. They did their part, time for them to live.
They spread the virus as well or better than any other age group (excepting college-aged kids (which is more sociology than biology). It's just that people feel like since they (for the most part) don't get severely ill or even symptomatic (yet), they are not infectious. Of course, people are wrong.
N.Y. will end most remaining covid restrictions after 70% vaccinated
New York will lift most of its remaining pandemic-era restrictions on businesses and social settings once 70 percent of the state’s adults have received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo announced on Monday.
Without offering many details, the governor said broadly that reaching the threshold would signify the end of restrictions on capacity limits, social distancing, disinfection protocols and health screenings.
He said, however, that the state would abide by mask guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Some restrictions would also continue in schools, public transit, homeless shelters and large venues, as well as correctional and health care facilities.
“When we hit 70 percent we will be back to life as normal,” Mr. Cuomo, a third-term Democrat, said during a news conference in Manhattan. “Or as normalized as you can be post-Covid.”
New York will lift most of its remaining pandemic-era restrictions on businesses and social settings once 70 percent of the state’s adults have received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo announced on Monday.
Without offering many details, the governor said broadly that reaching the threshold would signify the end of restrictions on capacity limits, social distancing, disinfection protocols and health screenings.
He said, however, that the state would abide by mask guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Some restrictions would also continue in schools, public transit, homeless shelters and large venues, as well as correctional and health care facilities.
“When we hit 70 percent we will be back to life as normal,” Mr. Cuomo, a third-term Democrat, said during a news conference in Manhattan. “Or as normalized as you can be post-Covid.” Link - ( New Window )
I think that the last 20% is going to be harder than the first 50%. All that are left, unfortunate, are the intransigent, uneducated, and misinformed.
RE: RE: N.Y. will end most remaining covid restrictions after 70% vaccinated
New York will lift most of its remaining pandemic-era restrictions on businesses and social settings once 70 percent of the state’s adults have received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo announced on Monday.
Without offering many details, the governor said broadly that reaching the threshold would signify the end of restrictions on capacity limits, social distancing, disinfection protocols and health screenings.
He said, however, that the state would abide by mask guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Some restrictions would also continue in schools, public transit, homeless shelters and large venues, as well as correctional and health care facilities.
“When we hit 70 percent we will be back to life as normal,” Mr. Cuomo, a third-term Democrat, said during a news conference in Manhattan. “Or as normalized as you can be post-Covid.” Link - ( New Window )
I think that the last 20% is going to be harder than the first 50%. All that are left, unfortunate, are the intransigent, uneducated, and misinformed.
But, and I stress this and should stress more often. That's not on them. That's on us to educate and nurture them into choosing as well as enacting policy to incentivize or disincentivize not being vaccinated.
and like I mentioned above, camp starts soon. While outside kids are going to be sharing things again, spending possibly 2x as much time with each other than they did in school, and their hygiene will fall by the wayside. The risk doesn’t just go away when school is out until they go back in a free months - it’s arguably going to be higher for many over the summer.
The risk of it spreading outdoors is much lower than indoors, even if protocols are loosened. Especially looking at the seasonality of it.
I know, but I also don't fully buy it. All being outdoors does is prevent it spreading within close quarter droplets by sneezing, coughing etc. But I'm talking about kids in camp who are dirty all day, don't wash their hands, share food and objects, and that's in a day that's almost 2x longer than school (8am-6pm vs 8:30am-2:30pm). They will be supervised by college students, not teachers in a controlled environment where masks can be policed, along with social distancing.
It doesn't add up for me, I think camps are going to have pretty high transmission rates. And I'm all for moving forward with them and I'm sending my daughter, but to think it isn't going to happen because they are outside doesn't make much sense to me.
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
I understand that. My wife is a special education teacher. But the vast majority of kids have roughly a week left before they are set free for the summer. It just makes more sense to me to wait until that happens. I know this isn’t scientific enough for Dr. Burberry, but common sense would say to just let the mask rules end with the school year and then everything is back to normal when they go back. I read one parent quoted as saying this was great because now the kids can take selfies and make TikToks. I mean what are we doing here? Risk is low - not non-existent. Just finish the year out.
Cool. Why doesn't common sense tell you to just keep the mask rules in place, indefinitely? Precisely, what risk will be extinguished from next week until September that is currently a threat?
Why should they not keep the mask rules in place indefinitely? Because they won’t be in fucking school. That is the entire point. And then there is the entire summer to continue widespread vaccination. I feel like I am speaking another language.
And what is this "vast majority"? NYC is a large percentage of NYS student population and they have 3 more weeks of school.
in NY in 17 months without a mask today. It was weird.
First time for me was weird too. But good weird. It's time to get back to normal.
I was trying so hard not to touch my face. It's amazing how much you do it without realizing it.
Haha. I think I read that the average person touches their face something like 20 times an hour, often without even realizing it. I've always been a germaphobe so I am like a zealot about not touching my face.
I think it's probably because they're calling for a heatwave next week and a lot of schools aren't air conditioned.
How so? The numbers are so low and it's going to be very hot next week. I have friends on both sides of the aisle that have been begging for masks mandates to be lifted for kids. Your comment was unnecessary and incorrect.
I just got a note from our Super in CT that they may have to close school next week if the heat is bad enough. We still have a mask mandate but I draw the line with the heat. I've told my daughter that if she gets uncomfortable with it on, to take it off and if there are any issues her teacher can call us.
Absolutely no way in hell i'm telling her to keep it on in the heat.
I don't get it either. If teachers are still getting their normal time off as per their contract it shouldn't matter when that time is.
Its also preposterous that schools can't even get window units installed but that's for a whole other thread.
I agree with Bill. It's two more weeks. finish the year, lift it for September. I complete disagree its "common sense"
(again, if the heat wave is driving this move, then it makes more sense)
I am fully vaccinated and am taking full advantage of that fact but still, I am more than happy to wear a mask on the PATH or public places (and airplanes when I eventually get to go somewhere!)
its annoying to wear a mask but it isn't life altering.
I think the indoor mask mandate makes sense but my school district mandates that you keep them on outside, even if you're vaccinated, which makes no sense. At drop off and pick up, you see a bunch of parents and kids standing around outside spread out wearing masks. That's just unnecessary hygiene theater.
Quote:
are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
I just got a note from our Super in CT that they may have to close school next week if the heat is bad enough. We still have a mask mandate but I draw the line with the heat. I've told my daughter that if she gets uncomfortable with it on, to take it off and if there are any issues her teacher can call us.
Absolutely no way in hell i'm telling her to keep it on in the heat.
If the heat is that bad and they have no A/C they should just switch to virtual instruction.
Its also worth noting kids are going to be spending a lot more time together when camp starts - longer days, less supervision, and tons of "shared" objects. So stopping masks with 1 weeks to go in school doesn't mean much - they will likely be transmitting at higher levels over the summer.
This.
My old high school had the asbestos issue and if you were 14-18 in that window for the last few years, your whole high school experience was fucked up. Split days, COVID. No prom. No graduation. What a mess within those 4 years.
I only say I'm jealous because with all this going on, I just wouldn't ever show up lol you're not missing anything. Proud to be New Jersey.
How sad.
Blah. Still wouldn't "show up" lol.
How sad.
Blah. Still wouldn't "show up" lol.
It would have been worth it if you could trade the last month or school of so to do at home. Absolutely brutal and can't believe we expect kids to learn in that environment. In fact I remember the last month of school essentially being bunch of bullshit because of the heat.
By Junior, Senior year, majority of the schedule were electives and gym. So when exams rolled around you could just leave early or there were no exams worth showing up for on certain days. Some of the teachers who taught the elective classes even allowed us to take the exams early on because they wanted to get the fuck out of there LOL
I remember taking two math classes or two Sciences classes in one year just to get them over with. I have no idea if they still allow stuff like that. I am 100% out of the loop.
"Current evidence demonstrates that consistent mask use indoors among people two and older who are not fully vaccinated, along with other preventive strategies, is key to reducing the spread of COVID-19."
https://twitter.com/reportermarina/status/1400944660600795144?s=21 - ( New Window )
How sad.
Blah. Still wouldn't "show up" lol.
One of my favorite snow days memories was in high school me and two of my friends crushed a handle of wild turkey and half fifth of svedka while his mom was away on business. Many drunken snow day activities where to be had that day.
Today's seven day moving average of daily cases is 648, or just over 3 per 100,000. That's roughly 20% of what it was 30 days ago.
Everyone 12 and over can get the vaccine. The mRNA shots are 95% effective. If you are fully vaccinated, your risk from COVID-19 is very very small
Children 9 and under have very little risk from COVID-19 and are much less likely to spread it.
I have tremendous respect for the CDC, but everyone should understand that, as an organization, they are very risk averse. They're the ones who tell you that eggs must be cooked with hard yolks and hamburgers need to be at least medium well.
Today's seven day moving average of daily cases is 648, or just over 3 per 100,000. That's roughly 20% of what it was 30 days ago.
Everyone 12 and over can get the vaccine. The mRNA shots are 95% effective. If you are fully vaccinated, your risk from COVID-19 is very very small
Children 9 and under have very little risk from COVID-19 and are much less likely to spread it.
I have tremendous respect for the CDC, but everyone should understand that, as an organization, they are very risk averse. They're the ones who tell you that eggs must be cooked with hard yolks and hamburgers need to be at least medium well.
Right 50% of Americans (and almost all of those that want it and need it, except for the immunocompromised) have had a vaccination and 1 in 3 Americans have already had it. At this point, if you don't relax mask-wearing, you may as well just wear masks year round to protect from flu deaths. Some people are just naturally nervous nellies.
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Over 46% of New Yorkers are fully vaxxed at over 54% have at least one shot. Add that to the over 10% of people who have had the disease and that's a big majority that have at least some immunity.
Today's seven day moving average of daily cases is 648, or just over 3 per 100,000. That's roughly 20% of what it was 30 days ago.
Everyone 12 and over can get the vaccine. The mRNA shots are 95% effective. If you are fully vaccinated, your risk from COVID-19 is very very small
Children 9 and under have very little risk from COVID-19 and are much less likely to spread it.
I have tremendous respect for the CDC, but everyone should understand that, as an organization, they are very risk averse. They're the ones who tell you that eggs must be cooked with hard yolks and hamburgers need to be at least medium well.
Right 50% of Americans (and almost all of those that want it and need it, except for the immunocompromised) have had a vaccination and 1 in 3 Americans have already had it. At this point, if you don't relax mask-wearing, you may as well just wear masks year round to protect from flu deaths. Some people are just naturally nervous nellies.
I just hope they couple dropping mask requirements fro vaccine requirements for schools, public offices, extracurricular, including travel youth sports, etc.
Quote:
Over 46% of New Yorkers are fully vaxxed at over 54% have at least one shot. Add that to the over 10% of people who have had the disease and that's a big majority that have at least some immunity.
Today's seven day moving average of daily cases is 648, or just over 3 per 100,000. That's roughly 20% of what it was 30 days ago.
Everyone 12 and over can get the vaccine. The mRNA shots are 95% effective. If you are fully vaccinated, your risk from COVID-19 is very very small
Children 9 and under have very little risk from COVID-19 and are much less likely to spread it.
I have tremendous respect for the CDC, but everyone should understand that, as an organization, they are very risk averse. They're the ones who tell you that eggs must be cooked with hard yolks and hamburgers need to be at least medium well.
Right 50% of Americans (and almost all of those that want it and need it, except for the immunocompromised) have had a vaccination and 1 in 3 Americans have already had it. At this point, if you don't relax mask-wearing, you may as well just wear masks year round to protect from flu deaths. Some people are just naturally nervous nellies.
Quote:
In comment 15280198 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
Over 46% of New Yorkers are fully vaxxed at over 54% have at least one shot. Add that to the over 10% of people who have had the disease and that's a big majority that have at least some immunity.
Today's seven day moving average of daily cases is 648, or just over 3 per 100,000. That's roughly 20% of what it was 30 days ago.
Everyone 12 and over can get the vaccine. The mRNA shots are 95% effective. If you are fully vaccinated, your risk from COVID-19 is very very small
Children 9 and under have very little risk from COVID-19 and are much less likely to spread it.
I have tremendous respect for the CDC, but everyone should understand that, as an organization, they are very risk averse. They're the ones who tell you that eggs must be cooked with hard yolks and hamburgers need to be at least medium well.
Right 50% of Americans (and almost all of those that want it and need it, except for the immunocompromised) have had a vaccination and 1 in 3 Americans have already had it. At this point, if you don't relax mask-wearing, you may as well just wear masks year round to protect from flu deaths. Some people are just naturally nervous nellies.
I just hope they couple dropping mask requirements fro vaccine requirements for schools, public offices, extracurricular, including travel youth sports, etc.
Right 50% of Americans (and almost all of those that want it and need it, except for the immunocompromised) have had a vaccination and 1 in 3 Americans have already had it. At this point, if you don't relax mask-wearing, you may as well just wear masks year round to protect from flu deaths. Some people are just naturally nervous nellies.
I don't know if those vaccinations stats are correct, but even if they are, wasn't the desired threshold at least 70% vaccinated?
I meant to write 50% of adults.
A) getting the virus, given my understanding that they are less likely to contract it?
B) spread the virus to other children, given my understanding that they are much less likely to transmit it and contract it?
C) spread the virus to more vulnerable populations, given high vaccination rates amongst those demographics?
D) become ill, given the (thankfully) very low documented likelihood of hospitalization rates and death?
Based upon the data it would seem as though the downside probabilities to our youth shedding their COVID masks are not dissimilar and may even be lower than those of other infectious diseases, of which we don’t prescribe the same precautionary measures.
If we’re no longer worried about Junior killing grandma or any responsible adult for that matter (assuming getting vaxxed qualifies as responsible), then what are the negative outcomes we’re looking to prevent?
And “just wait another freaking week,” doesn’t come off as very scientific.
Nope. No way. Nothing in life is ever politically motivated, conspiracy man!!
A) getting the virus, given my understanding that they are less likely to contract it?
B) spread the virus to other children, given my understanding that they are much less likely to transmit it and contract it?
C) spread the virus to more vulnerable populations, given high vaccination rates amongst those demographics?
D) become ill, given the (thankfully) very low documented likelihood of hospitalization rates and death?
Based upon the data it would seem as though the downside probabilities to our youth shedding their COVID masks are not dissimilar and may even be lower than those of other infectious diseases, of which we don’t prescribe the same precautionary measures.
If we’re no longer worried about Junior killing grandma or any responsible adult for that matter (assuming getting vaxxed qualifies as responsible), then what are the negative outcomes we’re looking to prevent?
And “just wait another freaking week,” doesn’t come off as very scientific.
I don’t think you’re wrong, is probabilities right? We’re currently involved in a large national study on children with a condition called multi inflammatory syndrome in children. It’s a COVID caused syndrome which can have severe, possibly fatal consequences. There are a fair number of children enrolled in the study. Overall, it’s a very low frequency occurrence, but, hey, what if it’s my kid.
Now if we could just get the 20% who are hold outs, we would be in even better shape.
Quote:
What are the probabilities associated with schoolchildren...
A) getting the virus, given my understanding that they are less likely to contract it?
B) spread the virus to other children, given my understanding that they are much less likely to transmit it and contract it?
C) spread the virus to more vulnerable populations, given high vaccination rates amongst those demographics?
D) become ill, given the (thankfully) very low documented likelihood of hospitalization rates and death?
Based upon the data it would seem as though the downside probabilities to our youth shedding their COVID masks are not dissimilar and may even be lower than those of other infectious diseases, of which we don’t prescribe the same precautionary measures.
If we’re no longer worried about Junior killing grandma or any responsible adult for that matter (assuming getting vaxxed qualifies as responsible), then what are the negative outcomes we’re looking to prevent?
And “just wait another freaking week,” doesn’t come off as very scientific.
I don’t think you’re wrong, is probabilities right? We’re currently involved in a large national study on children with a condition called multi inflammatory syndrome in children. It’s a COVID caused syndrome which can have severe, possibly fatal consequences. There are a fair number of children enrolled in the study. Overall, it’s a very low frequency occurrence, but, hey, what if it’s my kid.
I empathize with that viewpoint, Bill, and especially with someone of your credentials which far surpass mine. I've just become increasingly displeased with sliding goalposts of public health concern, what quantifies as such, and what measures we're willing to go through to minimize them. I think the utilitarian threshold has already been reached as it relates to the a good portion of the U.S.'s populations response to the virus. At this point it seems little more than symbolic and virtue-signaling.
Then there are the endless straw men we can invent to put that question of, "what if it's my kid," into context. Under similar guise of youth safety we could surely look to question any sort of automobile travel, pool ownership, etc. And ironically, youth suicide has been exacerbated by the COVID lockdowns but many seem to skate over that negative externality of the pandemic response.
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
Quote:
In comment 15280327 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
What are the probabilities associated with schoolchildren...
A) getting the virus, given my understanding that they are less likely to contract it?
B) spread the virus to other children, given my understanding that they are much less likely to transmit it and contract it?
C) spread the virus to more vulnerable populations, given high vaccination rates amongst those demographics?
D) become ill, given the (thankfully) very low documented likelihood of hospitalization rates and death?
Based upon the data it would seem as though the downside probabilities to our youth shedding their COVID masks are not dissimilar and may even be lower than those of other infectious diseases, of which we don’t prescribe the same precautionary measures.
If we’re no longer worried about Junior killing grandma or any responsible adult for that matter (assuming getting vaxxed qualifies as responsible), then what are the negative outcomes we’re looking to prevent?
And “just wait another freaking week,” doesn’t come off as very scientific.
I don’t think you’re wrong, is probabilities right? We’re currently involved in a large national study on children with a condition called multi inflammatory syndrome in children. It’s a COVID caused syndrome which can have severe, possibly fatal consequences. There are a fair number of children enrolled in the study. Overall, it’s a very low frequency occurrence, but, hey, what if it’s my kid.
I empathize with that viewpoint, Bill, and especially with someone of your credentials which far surpass mine. I've just become increasingly displeased with sliding goalposts of public health concern, what quantifies as such, and what measures we're willing to go through to minimize them. I think the utilitarian threshold has already been reached as it relates to the a good portion of the U.S.'s populations response to the virus. At this point it seems little more than symbolic and virtue-signaling.
Then there are the endless straw men we can invent to put that question of, "what if it's my kid," into context. Under similar guise of youth safety we could surely look to question any sort of automobile travel, pool ownership, etc. And ironically, youth suicide has been exacerbated by the COVID lockdowns but many seem to skate over that negative externality of the pandemic response.
The difference is that for those things you take a risk because you have to to get something done. In this case you can actively eliminate the risk. For this, you’re entirely in control.
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are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
I understand that. My wife is a special education teacher. But the vast majority of kids have roughly a week left before they are set free for the summer. It just makes more sense to me to wait until that happens. I know this isn’t scientific enough for Dr. Burberry, but common sense would say to just let the mask rules end with the school year and then everything is back to normal when they go back. I read one parent quoted as saying this was great because now the kids can take selfies and make TikToks. I mean what are we doing here? Risk is low - not non-existent. Just finish the year out.
What was a big deal and this was particularly in urban environments was the virtual teaching. It will take time but the number of Kids who fell further behind (and don't recover), got caught up in bad things, etc. will be far worse than the negative outcomes that would have occurred by them being in school imo.
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In comment 15280039 Chris in Philly said:
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are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
I understand that. My wife is a special education teacher. But the vast majority of kids have roughly a week left before they are set free for the summer. It just makes more sense to me to wait until that happens. I know this isn’t scientific enough for Dr. Burberry, but common sense would say to just let the mask rules end with the school year and then everything is back to normal when they go back. I read one parent quoted as saying this was great because now the kids can take selfies and make TikToks. I mean what are we doing here? Risk is low - not non-existent. Just finish the year out.
I would argue that common sense would've inferred a number of other public policy decisions that were bungled by those in charge, and I would argue that keeping children in masks as long as they have been is among the many.
And I have one child in pre-school, one in kindergarten, and a preggers wife so I'm well invested in the pandemic response towards our younger population.
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In comment 15280658 jpkmets said:
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In comment 15280039 Chris in Philly said:
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are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
I understand that. My wife is a special education teacher. But the vast majority of kids have roughly a week left before they are set free for the summer. It just makes more sense to me to wait until that happens. I know this isn’t scientific enough for Dr. Burberry, but common sense would say to just let the mask rules end with the school year and then everything is back to normal when they go back. I read one parent quoted as saying this was great because now the kids can take selfies and make TikToks. I mean what are we doing here? Risk is low - not non-existent. Just finish the year out.
Cool. Why doesn't common sense tell you to just keep the mask rules in place, indefinitely? Precisely, what risk will be extinguished from next week until September that is currently a threat?
Why should they not keep the mask rules in place indefinitely? Because they won’t be in fucking school. That is the entire point. And then there is the entire summer to continue widespread vaccination. I feel like I am speaking another language.
https://wbng.com/2021/06/06/confusion-regarding-school-mask-mandates-changes-not-approved-by-state-education-department/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WBNG12News - ( New Window )
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In comment 15280743 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 15280658 jpkmets said:
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In comment 15280039 Chris in Philly said:
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are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
I understand that. My wife is a special education teacher. But the vast majority of kids have roughly a week left before they are set free for the summer. It just makes more sense to me to wait until that happens. I know this isn’t scientific enough for Dr. Burberry, but common sense would say to just let the mask rules end with the school year and then everything is back to normal when they go back. I read one parent quoted as saying this was great because now the kids can take selfies and make TikToks. I mean what are we doing here? Risk is low - not non-existent. Just finish the year out.
Cool. Why doesn't common sense tell you to just keep the mask rules in place, indefinitely? Precisely, what risk will be extinguished from next week until September that is currently a threat?
Why should they not keep the mask rules in place indefinitely? Because they won’t be in fucking school. That is the entire point. And then there is the entire summer to continue widespread vaccination. I feel like I am speaking another language.
Yet let's have teenagers wearing masks inside of an oven school all day in June. Huh? If the airspace isn't safe enough according to the winners running the show in New Jersey, just do remote learning thing for the rest of the year.
I went to school in a non-air conditioned school. Wear a mask? May I curse instead, my grandmother?
Masked Men Can't Jump.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
Yet let's have teenagers wearing masks inside of an oven school all day in June. Huh? If the airspace isn't safe enough according to the winners running the show in New Jersey, just do remote learning thing for the rest of the year.
I went to school in a non-air conditioned school. Wear a mask? May I curse instead, my grandmother?
It's only anecdotal and we are not kids, but we are (well, "were" until a few weeks ago) required to wear masks for our hot yoga practices. Hotter and more humid than any school classroom. The masks don't really impact you any more than they do normally.
Such a simple act could have made such a big difference had their been responsible leadership in early 2020.
Axios - ( New Window )
In 2019 my hometown (Stamford CT) had to close many schools for mold remediation (almost every school to varying degrees). Not sure what genius thought that its ok to have a school close for the summer with no airflow, but that's the northeast for you.
Its 2022 and we can't air condition schools in one of the wealthiest counties in the country, its absurd. But hey, they police are up for raises sitting in their brand new air conditioned Explorers.
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for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
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In comment 15281183 UConn4523 said:
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for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, much of any year's increases in school budgets get swallowed up by increased personnel costs. There's little left for other things and then they have to do "special elections" for capital stuff. Those usually get passed because there is always an accompanying massive guilt campaign (if you vote no, you must hate children), but there is some pushback because of the double-funding. I think if there was a brake on the personnel side, you might get things like AC, etc.
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In comment 15281362 Bill L said:
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In comment 15281183 UConn4523 said:
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for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, much of any year's increases in school budgets get swallowed up by increased personnel costs. There's little left for other things and then they have to do "special elections" for capital stuff. Those usually get passed because there is always an accompanying massive guilt campaign (if you vote no, you must hate children), but there is some pushback because of the double-funding. I think if there was a brake on the personnel side, you might get things like AC, etc.
How about instead of that we just supply more money to the schools. The personnel are the ones educating our youth. It’s time we treat it like the important job it is.
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In comment 15281369 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15281362 Bill L said:
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In comment 15281183 UConn4523 said:
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for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, much of any year's increases in school budgets get swallowed up by increased personnel costs. There's little left for other things and then they have to do "special elections" for capital stuff. Those usually get passed because there is always an accompanying massive guilt campaign (if you vote no, you must hate children), but there is some pushback because of the double-funding. I think if there was a brake on the personnel side, you might get things like AC, etc.
How about instead of that we just supply more money to the schools. The personnel are the ones educating our youth. It’s time we treat it like the important job it is.
How about raising the standards? Pay the best people through a challenging merit system. Weed out the marginal to average performers.
This concept has served the military and pro sports well. The state and local govt's have far too many people where doing just enough is acceptable. It would be more cost effective and the savings then could then be applied to improved work environment and programs that will improve teaching the kids. Never happen with these unions.
You’re right. The only option is no raises for teachers vs ac for kids.
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In comment 15281378 Bill L said:
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In comment 15281369 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15281362 Bill L said:
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In comment 15281183 UConn4523 said:
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for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, much of any year's increases in school budgets get swallowed up by increased personnel costs. There's little left for other things and then they have to do "special elections" for capital stuff. Those usually get passed because there is always an accompanying massive guilt campaign (if you vote no, you must hate children), but there is some pushback because of the double-funding. I think if there was a brake on the personnel side, you might get things like AC, etc.
How about instead of that we just supply more money to the schools. The personnel are the ones educating our youth. It’s time we treat it like the important job it is.
How about raising the standards? Pay the best people through a challenging merit system. Weed out the marginal to average performers.
This concept has served the military and pro sports well. The state and local govt's have far too many people where doing just enough is acceptable. It would be more cost effective and the savings then could then be applied to improved work environment and programs that will improve teaching the kids. Never happen with these unions.
As long as its across the board for any govt employee.
How come we never hear complaints about other govt employees getting raises, but always when it’s teachers.
The risk of it spreading outdoors is much lower than indoors, even if protocols are loosened. Especially looking at the seasonality of it.
Sounds ok, but should this really have to be done to put AC in our schools?
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You’re right. The only option is no raises for teachers vs ac for kids.
I think it's going to vary based on many different things in every school district. I think it is really hard for you to say "just do this" without even knowing how much people are already making, the circumstances of the district, the amount people are already taxed, etc. Merely being reflexive and have a one size fits all doesn't work IMO.
Those little fuckers are germ traps.
Is it something about their youth really making them more resistant or is it just they are the most compliant group with regards to masks because its easier to make them comply.
Either way I'm happy to loosen the restriction for kids that age, its is definitely getting to the point where the cure is worse than the disease for young children. They did their part, time for them to live.
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In comment 15281384 RicFlair said:
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In comment 15281378 Bill L said:
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In comment 15281369 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15281362 Bill L said:
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In comment 15281183 UConn4523 said:
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for early dismissal tomorrow due to heat. I don’t want my kid wearing her mask in a non-air conditioned room, even with the shortened day. “It’s just 1 more week” is a bullshit answer.
When in-school is untenable, for whatever reason, I wonder why they couldn't quickly pivot to remote (and this is going forward, beyond the pandemic)? They should be pretty well-versed in that by now. This could be similar to the wfh arguments from last week.
As much as I would be frustrated by it since work is nuts right now for my wife and I, i'd rather this than my daughter sit in what could be a 85/90 degree classroom by late morning today. And add a mask on top of it?
I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, much of any year's increases in school budgets get swallowed up by increased personnel costs. There's little left for other things and then they have to do "special elections" for capital stuff. Those usually get passed because there is always an accompanying massive guilt campaign (if you vote no, you must hate children), but there is some pushback because of the double-funding. I think if there was a brake on the personnel side, you might get things like AC, etc.
How about instead of that we just supply more money to the schools. The personnel are the ones educating our youth. It’s time we treat it like the important job it is.
How about raising the standards? Pay the best people through a challenging merit system. Weed out the marginal to average performers.
This concept has served the military and pro sports well. The state and local govt's have far too many people where doing just enough is acceptable. It would be more cost effective and the savings then could then be applied to improved work environment and programs that will improve teaching the kids. Never happen with these unions.
As long as its across the board for any govt employee.
How come we never hear complaints about other govt employees getting raises, but always when it’s teachers.
Those little fuckers are germ traps.
Is it something about their youth really making them more resistant or is it just they are the most compliant group with regards to masks because its easier to make them comply.
Either way I'm happy to loosen the restriction for kids that age, its is definitely getting to the point where the cure is worse than the disease for young children. They did their part, time for them to live.
They spread the virus as well or better than any other age group (excepting college-aged kids (which is more sociology than biology). It's just that people feel like since they (for the most part) don't get severely ill or even symptomatic (yet), they are not infectious. Of course, people are wrong.
Without offering many details, the governor said broadly that reaching the threshold would signify the end of restrictions on capacity limits, social distancing, disinfection protocols and health screenings.
He said, however, that the state would abide by mask guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Some restrictions would also continue in schools, public transit, homeless shelters and large venues, as well as correctional and health care facilities.
“When we hit 70 percent we will be back to life as normal,” Mr. Cuomo, a third-term Democrat, said during a news conference in Manhattan. “Or as normalized as you can be post-Covid.”
Link - ( New Window )
Without offering many details, the governor said broadly that reaching the threshold would signify the end of restrictions on capacity limits, social distancing, disinfection protocols and health screenings.
He said, however, that the state would abide by mask guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Some restrictions would also continue in schools, public transit, homeless shelters and large venues, as well as correctional and health care facilities.
“When we hit 70 percent we will be back to life as normal,” Mr. Cuomo, a third-term Democrat, said during a news conference in Manhattan. “Or as normalized as you can be post-Covid.” Link - ( New Window )
I think that the last 20% is going to be harder than the first 50%. All that are left, unfortunate, are the intransigent, uneducated, and misinformed.
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New York will lift most of its remaining pandemic-era restrictions on businesses and social settings once 70 percent of the state’s adults have received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo announced on Monday.
Without offering many details, the governor said broadly that reaching the threshold would signify the end of restrictions on capacity limits, social distancing, disinfection protocols and health screenings.
He said, however, that the state would abide by mask guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Some restrictions would also continue in schools, public transit, homeless shelters and large venues, as well as correctional and health care facilities.
“When we hit 70 percent we will be back to life as normal,” Mr. Cuomo, a third-term Democrat, said during a news conference in Manhattan. “Or as normalized as you can be post-Covid.” Link - ( New Window )
I think that the last 20% is going to be harder than the first 50%. All that are left, unfortunate, are the intransigent, uneducated, and misinformed.
But, and I stress this and should stress more often. That's not on them. That's on us to educate and nurture them into choosing as well as enacting policy to incentivize or disincentivize not being vaccinated.
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and like I mentioned above, camp starts soon. While outside kids are going to be sharing things again, spending possibly 2x as much time with each other than they did in school, and their hygiene will fall by the wayside. The risk doesn’t just go away when school is out until they go back in a free months - it’s arguably going to be higher for many over the summer.
The risk of it spreading outdoors is much lower than indoors, even if protocols are loosened. Especially looking at the seasonality of it.
I know, but I also don't fully buy it. All being outdoors does is prevent it spreading within close quarter droplets by sneezing, coughing etc. But I'm talking about kids in camp who are dirty all day, don't wash their hands, share food and objects, and that's in a day that's almost 2x longer than school (8am-6pm vs 8:30am-2:30pm). They will be supervised by college students, not teachers in a controlled environment where masks can be policed, along with social distancing.
It doesn't add up for me, I think camps are going to have pretty high transmission rates. And I'm all for moving forward with them and I'm sending my daughter, but to think it isn't going to happen because they are outside doesn't make much sense to me.
That gives me hope and more faith in people.
That gives me hope and more faith in people.
yea the state offical page update today says we are at 66.4 % of adults with at least 1 dose and like 54 % fully vaxed
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In comment 15281162 BurberryManning said:
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In comment 15280743 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 15280658 jpkmets said:
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In comment 15280039 Chris in Philly said:
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are beginning to get back to normal, but changing this with like a week left in the school year or whatever it is seems dumb. Just finish the year and everyone is free to do what they want...
Also huge for special Ed kids in 12 month programs. I work in special Ed law. This will make speech therapy, etc in district 75 schools easier. Their school year starts 7/2.
I understand that. My wife is a special education teacher. But the vast majority of kids have roughly a week left before they are set free for the summer. It just makes more sense to me to wait until that happens. I know this isn’t scientific enough for Dr. Burberry, but common sense would say to just let the mask rules end with the school year and then everything is back to normal when they go back. I read one parent quoted as saying this was great because now the kids can take selfies and make TikToks. I mean what are we doing here? Risk is low - not non-existent. Just finish the year out.
Cool. Why doesn't common sense tell you to just keep the mask rules in place, indefinitely? Precisely, what risk will be extinguished from next week until September that is currently a threat?
Why should they not keep the mask rules in place indefinitely? Because they won’t be in fucking school. That is the entire point. And then there is the entire summer to continue widespread vaccination. I feel like I am speaking another language.
And what is this "vast majority"? NYC is a large percentage of NYS student population and they have 3 more weeks of school.
yea upstate kids are in school until june 23rd
Bingo.
You're not missing anything important until exams.
(Spoiler: those aren't important either)
First time for me was weird too. But good weird. It's time to get back to normal.
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in NY in 17 months without a mask today. It was weird.
First time for me was weird too. But good weird. It's time to get back to normal.
I was trying so hard not to touch my face. It's amazing how much you do it without realizing it.
Why are you guys amazed by this bullshit? You expecting something else? It's NJ/NY lol shopping without masks is weird.
What a joke. Field trip to Stupid Town.
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In comment 15281872 Bricktop said:
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in NY in 17 months without a mask today. It was weird.
First time for me was weird too. But good weird. It's time to get back to normal.
I was trying so hard not to touch my face. It's amazing how much you do it without realizing it.
Haha. I think I read that the average person touches their face something like 20 times an hour, often without even realizing it. I've always been a germaphobe so I am like a zealot about not touching my face.