for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Tired of hearing make or break year for DJ

gogiants : 6/4/2021 6:28 pm
I was reading another QB ranking that said Jones has to excel this year or it should be over for him. This one from SBNation. My view is Jones has already shown enough to deserve his full four years. Then the Giants could make a decision on the fifth year option.

There are only 12 quarterbacks since 1950 that have had Daniel Jones' numbers in their first two years.

Passes Intercepted & lt;= 25 and Passing Yds & gt;= 5500 and Passing TD & gt;= 35 and Pass Completion % & gt;= 60 and Yds/Pass Att & gt;= 6.5

Of those 12 Jones has the second best rushing yards per attempt and fifth highest rushing yards.

He holds the NFL rookie record for 3 games with 4 TD passes and zero interceptions. He is tie with 3 QBs for having a rookie game record of 5 passing touchdowns.

In his second year he moved up in ranking for deep passing from 24th by PFF his rookie year to top by next gen stats in 2020. His fumbles lost dropped from 11 his rookie year to 6 in 2020.

The guy shows all the intangibles I loved about Eli - tough, fearless, hard-worker, quiet leader, competitive, team player.

Sure there are things to get better at such as the bad TD numbers last year. But Jones has shown that he will focus on an improvement and achieve it.

The one thing I want to see from Jones is to make the playoffs. But I give him his four years to do so. Sooner is better.

That SBNation writer probably would have passed on on Fran Tarkenton, Jim Plunkett, Warren Moon, Drew Brees, Troy Aikman, Steve Young and Phil Simms after three years.
You do realize that all this post is going to do  
montanagiant : 6/4/2021 6:41 pm : link
Is be yet another DJ debate. Which at this point seems to happen on virtually every single thread about the Giants
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/4/2021 6:42 pm : link
You might be tired about hearing that talk, but it's 100% the truth.
RE: ...  
bLiTz 2k : 6/4/2021 6:44 pm : link
In comment 15280159 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
You might be tired about hearing that talk, but it's 100% the truth.


That's your opinion..
Don’t care to debate Jones any more than I have today  
UConn4523 : 6/4/2021 6:46 pm : link
but the wildcard is 2 first round picks in 2022 and that will absolutely play a factor in how to handle QB moving forward if Jones doesn’t have a good year.
RE: You do realize that all this post is going to do  
gogiants : 6/4/2021 6:48 pm : link
In comment 15280157 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Is be yet another DJ debate. Which at this point seems to happen on virtually every single thread about the Giants


Good point. I did think something about that. But it just seemed like most of the threads were this is it for Jones. I did not see much of the other view.
5th year option decision  
GMen72 : 6/4/2021 7:17 pm : link
has to be made after this year, not year 4, as I understand it?
If I'm not mistaken...  
Milton : 6/4/2021 7:17 pm : link
Unlike prior to 2018, the 5th year option becomes guaranteed if you pick it up after year three. So the Giants will have to decide on the option in May 2022. It doesn't mean they have to decide right then and there on Jones, but accepting the option has a domino effect on the team's leverage in future negotiations because it pushes back the need for the franchise tag by a year.
Agreed. Those taking a hard stance one way or the other don't get it.  
robbieballs2003 : 6/4/2021 7:25 pm : link
There are so many variables that go into it. One, the organization LOVES him. He has done everything right. He works his ass off. He's a great teammate. He organizes get togethers in the off season. He has everything you want in a player off the field. Two, he has shown glimpses of greatness but to he fair he is very inconsistent. Great players string together way more great plays and games than bad plays. The bad plays pop up too much (some are his fault and some aren't). Three, it is about opportunity. It isn't as easy as saying he sucks and he's gone next year. What are the alternatives? If he has a good year do you pass on a stud QB if the opportunity presents itself. These are all conversations that need to be had and, long story short, it's not black and white.

I am a huge Jones fan. I want to see him succeed here. But, imo, it is his job to end the conversations for the organization. He didn't do that last year. If he was able to lead us to the playoffs then the conversations about him would be completely different. He wasn't able to do that. He was also really banged up and it affected his play but he's a tough son of a bitch even going back to his days at Duke and playing through a broken collarbone or something like that. This is a huge year for Jones no matter how anyone breaks it down. That doesn't mean if he has a subpar year he is gone but it does increase the likelihood that conversations are had and a move could be made. The ball is in Jones' court now. What does he do with it?
I've made this comparison before and haven't seen others do it but  
robbieballs2003 : 6/4/2021 7:35 pm : link
For some reason Jones reminds me of Ryan Tannehill not in terms of being similar players but more in terms of how their careers started off. Tannehill showed some good signs when he was with the Dolphins early on but injuries derailed him. The fan base soured on him and the Dolphins moved on. He signs for cheap with Tennessee and becomes a really good QB. He is a guy that needed to grow into the NFL game and didn't do enough to stay in Miami. I think Jones has more natural talent than Tannehill but we've seen glimpses from both early in their careers.
Ditto for Gettlemen and Barkley.  
Dave in Hoboken : 6/4/2021 7:40 pm : link
.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/4/2021 7:41 pm : link
robbie, we know DG loves him. And while JJ has sung his praises in public, none of us how he truly feels about Jones behind closed doors. He inherited him.
RE: I've made this comparison before and haven't seen others do it but  
eric2425ny : 6/4/2021 7:41 pm : link
In comment 15280187 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
For some reason Jones reminds me of Ryan Tannehill not in terms of being similar players but more in terms of how their careers started off. Tannehill showed some good signs when he was with the Dolphins early on but injuries derailed him. The fan base soured on him and the Dolphins moved on. He signs for cheap with Tennessee and becomes a really good QB. He is a guy that needed to grow into the NFL game and didn't do enough to stay in Miami. I think Jones has more natural talent than Tannehill but we've seen glimpses from both early in their careers.


Totally agree with this.
RE: ...  
robbieballs2003 : 6/4/2021 7:42 pm : link
In comment 15280192 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
robbie, we know DG loves him. And while JJ has sung his praises in public, none of us how he truly feels about Jones behind closed doors. He inherited him.


Passing in Herbert tells me all I need to know about how the Giants view him. Even Gettleman was head over heels about Herbert.
Lets go through some facts:  
SGMen : 6/4/2021 7:48 pm : link
1. DJ is drafted out of Duke and they were TERRIBLE.
2. DJ was behind Eli his rookie year through camp.
3. DJ's rookie year was sensational EXCEPT for the fumbles
4. DJ's sophmore year was with a new HC and system
5. DJ's sophmore year had no training camp
6. DJ's sophmore year was played behind one of the worst if not the worst pass protecting lines in the league
7. DJ lost his only stud weapon in Barkley for part of his rookie and almost all his sophmore year

The bottom line is that this will be the first year DJ is heading into a training camp as the #1 and in a system he understands. Sure we will judge him this year cause he has less of an excuse so long as the OL is at least NFL "average" and I believe this young unit will be at least that much. It really depends upon how fast they grow and understand the OL scheme as well as their health.

I am going to say this: DJ will show us why we drafted him and have a superb season for us. The team just has to stay healthy in the key spots. He has the talent to be "more than good enough" to win you a SB. I believe in him based on his play to date behind a bad offense.
RE: Ditto for Gettlemen and Barkley.  
US1 Giants : 6/4/2021 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15280191 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
.


THIS. If Jones does make the playoffs then move on on a new GM and QB with the draft capital next year.
I am sorry you are tired of hearing it…  
Bergen346 : 6/4/2021 8:17 pm : link
I am tired of hearing that donuts are bad for you… I love donuts.

This is a prove it year for Jones, maybe not make or break, but he has to show progress or this team and coach will start to plan accordingly.

If he regresses, which I don’t believe he will, we are 100% moving on - especially with two first round picks in the upcoming draft.

I personally think Jones is going to have a monster season and will be successful here long term - at which point this conversation will be irrelevant.
RE: You do realize that all this post is going to do  
Klaatu : 6/4/2021 8:19 pm : link
In comment 15280157 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Is be yet another DJ debate. Which at this point seems to happen on virtually every single thread about the Giants




No it doesn't.
Yes it does!
No it doesn't.
Yes it does!
No it doesn't.
Yes it does!
RE: Ditto for Gettlemen and Barkley.  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/4/2021 8:26 pm : link
In comment 15280191 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
.


If the team only wins 6 games, it's going to be awfully hard for the Giants to retain him in the face of fan sentiment. I think he did a great job to secure our future this year as well as set us up for mid road success (I think we are talking 2022 as a SB contender).

I don't understand how this is a make or break year for Barkley unless he gets hurt again. Obviously, we don't have a crystal ball, but it's pretty well documented that the 1800 carry mark is when their play starts to fall off. It's not the age, it's the mileage. If all goes well with his recovery (and why wouldn't it based on recent ACL rehab) that gives us 4-5 years where his play is still elite. No sense in dumping him. In fact if DJ sucks (not seeing this at all, but for arguments sake) and we draft a QB next year, it gives us the backhalf of Saquon's elite play window with a QB in year 2-4 of a rookie deal (the real cap advantage).
RE: Lets go through some facts:  
montanagiant : 6/4/2021 8:34 pm : link
In comment 15280199 SGMen said:
Quote:
1. DJ is drafted out of Duke and they were TERRIBLE.
2. DJ was behind Eli his rookie year through camp.
3. DJ's rookie year was sensational EXCEPT for the fumbles
4. DJ's sophmore year was with a new HC and system
5. DJ's sophmore year had no training camp
6. DJ's sophmore year was played behind one of the worst if not the worst pass protecting lines in the league
7. DJ lost his only stud weapon in Barkley for part of his rookie and almost all his sophmore year

The bottom line is that this will be the first year DJ is heading into a training camp as the #1 and in a system he understands. Sure we will judge him this year cause he has less of an excuse so long as the OL is at least NFL "average" and I believe this young unit will be at least that much. It really depends upon how fast they grow and understand the OL scheme as well as their health.

I am going to say this: DJ will show us why we drafted him and have a superb season for us. The team just has to stay healthy in the key spots. He has the talent to be "more than good enough" to win you a SB. I believe in him based on his play to date behind a bad offense.

Good post!
Thanks for pointing that out on the fifth year option  
gogiants : 6/4/2021 9:28 pm : link
I did not realize that had to be made next offseason. It seemed like a point at which these decisions are made like Trubisky. So with Trubisky they did not pick up the option but he played his fourth year on the Bears. They brought in Foles for a competition. There have been players that did not get their fifth year option but later signed with the team. But no QBs that I know of. I still feel Jones should at least be given the chance to compete for starting a fourth year.
RE: RE: Lets go through some facts:  
SGMen : 6/5/2021 12:27 am : link
In comment 15280229 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15280199 SGMen said:


Quote:


1. DJ is drafted out of Duke and they were TERRIBLE.
2. DJ was behind Eli his rookie year through camp.
3. DJ's rookie year was sensational EXCEPT for the fumbles
4. DJ's sophmore year was with a new HC and system
5. DJ's sophmore year had no training camp
6. DJ's sophmore year was played behind one of the worst if not the worst pass protecting lines in the league
7. DJ lost his only stud weapon in Barkley for part of his rookie and almost all his sophmore year

The bottom line is that this will be the first year DJ is heading into a training camp as the #1 and in a system he understands. Sure we will judge him this year cause he has less of an excuse so long as the OL is at least NFL "average" and I believe this young unit will be at least that much. It really depends upon how fast they grow and understand the OL scheme as well as their health.

I am going to say this: DJ will show us why we drafted him and have a superb season for us. The team just has to stay healthy in the key spots. He has the talent to be "more than good enough" to win you a SB. I believe in him based on his play to date behind a bad offense.


Good post!
Thanks. Every team suffers injuries but losing Barkley last year just deflated this team as he was the only guy anyone worried about on offense; our only playmaker. I mean, last year we played large parts of the year with 3 rookies and a brand new first time center! They improved but it took time. DJ was under pressure every snap and if you remember Barkley was buried at the handoff many times before he got hurt.
Your hearing.....  
thrunthrublue : 6/5/2021 12:47 am : link
Is fine. Turnovers, are cancerous for an offense in the nfl. Stay tuned, and just in case....root for the bears to go 2 and 15 or so. If the giants get to the playoffs.....it’s great.....if not, 8 gets labelled a journeyman, and you use the chicago pick.....to re boot.
You can be tired  
MtDizzle : 6/5/2021 3:08 am : link
of it all you want but the facts are the facts. He’s still a huge question mark and needs to cut down the turnovers. Also it wouldn’t hurt if he elevated his teammates. This all remains to be seen. I’m tired of people thinking he’s a sure thing to succeed in this league. Nobody knows.
Expectations  
Les in TO : 6/5/2021 5:33 am : link
Are higher for him this year with his new weapons and being in year three.every season is different, clusters of injuries will be challenging but it’s fair to expect a step change in performance
RE: I've made this comparison before and haven't seen others do it but  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 6/5/2021 6:26 am : link
In comment 15280187 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
For some reason Jones reminds me of Ryan Tannehill not in terms of being similar players but more in terms of how their careers started off. Tannehill showed some good signs when he was with the Dolphins early on but injuries derailed him. The fan base soured on him and the Dolphins moved on. He signs for cheap with Tennessee and becomes a really good QB. He is a guy that needed to grow into the NFL game and didn't do enough to stay in Miami. I think Jones has more natural talent than Tannehill but we've seen glimpses from both early in their careers.


IIRC, when Sy evaluated Daniel Jones before the draft and was still doing player comparisons, Ryan Tannehill was the player he compared him to.
I think a lot of the narrative  
joeinpa : 6/5/2021 6:38 am : link
Focusing on his negatives while ignoring his positives, has been instigated by those who don’t like DG, and hated this pick.

I really think some of those people, media and posters here, would rather be right than see Jones succeed.
So let me see if I understand the OP here...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/5/2021 7:58 am : link
- You're tired of hearing that Yr 3 is make or break for Jones from everybody.
- You think he has absolutely shown enough to even have already earned a Yr 4 and you list all the reasons why.
- However, the ONE thing you want to see from Jones is that he has to make the playoffs before end of Yr 4.

So you're tired of everybody elses's ultimatums so you decided to come up with one yourself...make the playoffs or your out DJ.

gogiants - do I have this right?



RE: I think a lot of the narrative  
Jimmy Googs : 6/5/2021 8:07 am : link
In comment 15280338 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Focusing on his negatives while ignoring his positives, has been instigated by those who don’t like DG, and hated this pick.

I really think some of those people, media and posters here, would rather be right than see Jones succeed.


This one never gets old...

I don't debate things well but I want to post something, so let me just tell others that their opinions/views are disingenuous.
RE: RE: I think a lot of the narrative  
BlueVinnie : 6/5/2021 8:19 am : link
In comment 15280349 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15280338 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Focusing on his negatives while ignoring his positives, has been instigated by those who don’t like DG, and hated this pick.

I really think some of those people, media and posters here, would rather be right than see Jones succeed.



This one never gets old...

I don't debate things well but I want to post something, so let me just tell others that their opinions/views are disingenuous.


Well said Googs.
RE: RE: ...  
Tuckrule : 6/5/2021 9:10 am : link
In comment 15280160 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
In comment 15280159 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


You might be tired about hearing that talk, but it's 100% the truth.



That's your opinion..


Not really. That’s obviously what’s happening. Year 3. They got him tons of weapons. Year 3 of the rookie qb deal is where you need to major leaps forward especially when you added all these weapons on offense. They got golladay spentbig bucks and drafted another weapon in the first round. That’s a lot of assets going towards helping the QB. It’s an opinion but it’s one shared by about 99.72 percent of people who follow and cover this team.
gogiants  
Dr. D : 6/5/2021 10:04 am : link
To paraphrase Antrel Rolle, I believe at the end of the year, we won't have to worry about D. Jones 4th or 5th years.

The reason is: with a normal offseason, 2nd yr in same offense, significant addition of weapons, more experienced and coached up DJ and OL, he and the team are going to take a Giant leap forward this yr and it will be clear he's our guy.

I could be wrong, but that's what i expect (and I believe what Coach JJ expects), based on what he's already done (what you listed), his hard work, expected maturation and major impact of the added weapons.

He showed growth in certain areas last yr, by cutting down on his turnovers. This yr, he'll continue that trend, while adding a lot more TDs, etc.
Re. DJ's decision making  
Dr. D : 6/5/2021 10:23 am : link
I see people mention this often, but don't you think his decision making will improve when he has SB and maybe Toney in the backfield and multiple open receivers, including 6'4" Golladay and Rudolph (who are open when they're not)?

Can people try to put themselves in his shoes and imagine you have 2 seconds to find an open receiver and the only one open has hands of stone (resulting in drops and INTs). That won't be the situation this yr.

A more experienced and coached up OL is also going to help DJ's perceived decision making and pocket presence.
To put it miildly  
Jimmy Googs : 6/5/2021 11:34 am : link
that is the hope...
mildly  
Jimmy Googs : 6/5/2021 11:34 am : link
***
We'll have to wait and see  
anon837 : 6/5/2021 11:40 am : link
There's a lot of positives going in to this year, including a 2nd year in the system, Barkley coming back, and an influx of skill position players. If the team falters and the tape says that it's not on Jones, then we'll have to pose this question again next year. But if the tape does show his deficiencies, the Giants have draft capital for next year to move up and get another signal-caller. I truly don't want them burning picks on another QB, but you aren't going to win in this league without, at a bare minimum, an above-average QB with a rock-solid team around them. And not to leave them out of it, the coaching staff. Will the offense tailor to the players or will Garrett (and Judge) pound square peg in to the round hole.
Sy has never been high on Jones  
Dave on the UWS : 6/5/2021 12:19 pm : link
The Tanneyhill comparison was before he blossomed in Tenn.
What I'm sick of, is all anyone (especially on ESPN) talks about are the turnovers.
He still has to prove to me he can run the offense consistently and most importantly, get it done in the clutch when winning or losing is on the line. Guys like Favre and oh yeah, Eli Manning were turnover machines their whole careers. But in the clutch? they were different animals.
Whether you like him or not, are sold on him or not,  
Matt M. : 6/5/2021 12:23 pm : link
believe he is the franchise or not, it is hard to argue against this being a critical year for him. Personally, I'm still optimistic =, but not sold 100%. I have certainly liked what I have seen in terms of some big plays and running ability. I have not liked his fragility, inability to hold on to the football, holding the ball too long a lot of the time, questionable decision making. Talent is there, but it needs to be put together.

I love the weapons he will have now, especially assuming Barkley will be 100%. However, the OL still worries me a ton and may ultimately be Jones' undoing.
Jones started to produce more  
rocco8112 : 6/5/2021 1:55 pm : link
when his they schemed to use his legs more.

This led to him getting dinged up and that's all she wrote. If he needs his mobility to produce there is greater risk of injury.

I see the stats you posted and an article linked on this forum ranking him number one as a deep ball thrower. But, from me watching I don't see it on the screen. Jones' play thus far doesn't jump out as a guy throwing game changing bombs all over the field and leading an offense to score when it counts.

This is the very definition of a make or break year, for Barkley too.

The D is improving and hopefully the o line too. If Jones can't do it this year it will be time to go to plan B.

Again, same with Barkley.
DJ would have to be the reason we struggle for a definite parting  
SGMen : 6/6/2021 10:09 pm : link
to take place.

God forbid he is running for his life every snap with no run game to support him. How do you judge that?

Having said the worst case scenario, I honestly believe this OL will be "average" at worst and our skill position players are likely going to be "average" at worst as well.

And despite average + average, well, I believe DJ will be above average and will be our QB of the future.

I still hope the Bears suck so bad this year they have a top five pick so we have a shot at a QB IF necessary but I don't think that will be the case. I honestly believe we will be solid.
Jones & the Offense will almost certainly be better and more  
NYGgolfer : 6/7/2021 10:32 am : link
productive this season. Just from a sheer standpoint of the markedly low levels they were at in 2020, its almost impossible not to be unless injuries decimate that part of the roster.

The likely more relevant topic will be whether the Offense is or is not meeting a reasonable enough standard of production for the team to be a consistent winner going forward. And if not, whether Jones is one of the primary reasons behind it.

Would imagine there will be plenty of in-season debates on this, and where credit should be going if the Giants are winning or where blame will be placed if not.
robbie & rocco with good posts  
JonC : 6/7/2021 10:58 am : link
It's a huge year for DJ, and the current blueprint of the front office/coaches. That said, they've got the option on DJ's contract and extra draft picks next year to help ease some of the urgency if it's not a clear cut decision after this season.

The problem becomes what if DJ stinks and there's no stud QB prospect to be had in the draft. Then you're punting the decision a year (I would hope) in order to better use the draft picks, or the opportunity to strike in the 2023 draft.
Playoffs mentions.  
Racer : 6/7/2021 11:24 am : link
Before we go there, I'd like for a late 4th quarter drive to begin, the D clearly ready to pin their ears back to get to the passer and we have seen enough to have confidence that they can get it done. Then do it some more.

I haven't had that feeling since the days when Eli had some time to throw.
Finishing games  
JonC : 6/7/2021 11:29 am : link
is absolutely something they need to demonstrate this season, on both sides of the ball. Otherwise, they will be the finished.
Back to the Corner