As he learns, my hope is that Judge and the rest of the coaching staff teaches him why "pass protection is also the quarterback's job"
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/11/8/20954689/nfl-offensive-line-pass-protection-breakdown-mitchell-trubisky-bears
I'm not sure I've ever heard anything bad about DJ with respect to his role in pass protections? I wouldn't know by watching either.
I think being in the 2nd year of the current system will help greatly along with a real training camp. This is a young offense outside of TE.
In the Ravens' game; they just sent everybody and our offense just couldn't handle it.
The Old Master, Tom Brady is a symphony conductor with the Buc's offensive line. In just a few games, they went from ordinary to very efficient.
It's not fair to expect that from Jones, right-away, but with the right coaching and faith in him, I think he's smart enough to grow into a special QB.
Jones is smart and will progress in this area. My only, only concern about Jones is sometimes he does not have natural pocket awareness. That is the number one thing I will be looking for this year.
About McCoy & what Jones needs to work on.
Some guys just naturally have great pocket awareness; Ben Rothlisberger is a great example. Even as a rookie, he knew how to slide around in the pocket, avoiding tackles and finding clear passing lanes.
Next to Brady, the best in recent times was Peyton Manning.
Out of the young guys, the "Brady Clone" - Justin Herbert is very good, already.
.... and Jones will get better as the OL gets better.
There is a surprise ... an ex-offensive lineman blaming the QB? Wow - didn't see that coming.
I am not saying he doesn't have an valid points but, Jones could have a photographic memory and 10 years in the same system. If the Ol can't block for him he is on his back with no chance.
Some want to give the OL excuses. They have to be held accountable too. They also get paid to do a job. I think some forget that.
The best you can do is train a QB to stay on schedule and get the ball out of his hands in "x" seconds.
Daniel Jones needs to learn that big time.
As for our third year QB shifting effortlessly in the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield, not sure he can be that sort of QB.
Hope I'm wrong.
In the meantime, would be nice for our young offensive line to take the next step up.
The best you can do is train a QB to stay on schedule and get the ball out of his hands in "x" seconds.
Daniel Jones needs to learn that big time.
As for our third year QB shifting effortlessly in the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield, not sure he can be that sort of QB.
Hope I'm wrong.
In the meantime, would be nice for our young offensive line to take the next step up.
I don't think you can truly teach "pocket presence"
Something is wrong with this site... it is dropping words out of the title line.
I haven't done a statistical analysis, but I believe that 50% of ALL NFL Sacks and "Blow Up Plays" are "Lacking Correct Assignment". It's the bigegst difference in today's game versus 25 years ago. The offensive lines are just not as well coordinated...player turnover , coach turnover........In the Giants' case, you hope that the QB/OL/RB recognition AT SNAP is alot better than last year.
And in doing so Jones actually helped the edge rusher get a clearer path towards him as the Offensive Tackle's body position was now in a bad leverage position to stay between his opponent and Jones. The pass rusher now just disengages and heads unobstructed to DJ.
Pocket presence includes helping the OL out by stepping up, quicker releases and subtle movements by the QB within the pocket to help an OT re-establish his blocking position.
And in doing so Jones actually helped the edge rusher get a clearer path towards him as the Offensive Tackle's body position was now in a bad leverage position to stay between his opponent and Jones. The pass rusher now just disengages and heads unobstructed to DJ.
Pocket presence includes helping the OL out by stepping up, quicker releases and subtle movements by the QB within the pocket to help an OT re-establish his blocking position.
Agree with all of that.
Jones is smart and will progress in this area. My only, only concern about Jones is sometimes he does not have natural pocket awareness. That is the number one thing I will be looking for this year.
In order to develop pocket awareness you need to have an actual pocket to become aware of.
Pocket presence includes helping the OL out by stepping up, quicker releases and subtle movements by the QB within the pocket to help an OT re-establish his blocking position.
Hard to step up when Shane Lemieux misses his block and the opposing DT is about to take your head off!
In theory, yes. But that theory only holds water if the offensive line isn't outright whiffing their block, or getting pushed back into the QB's face.
So it's sort of rich coming from a guy who couldn't block for a QB who had what was considered great pocket presence as well as a superior knowledge in order to conduct protections at the LOS.
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Pocket presence includes helping the OL out by stepping up, quicker releases and subtle movements by the QB within the pocket to help an OT re-establish his blocking position.
Hard to step up when Shane Lemieux misses his block and the opposing DT is about to take your head off!
Okay, but then ask the roster architects what they are doing at Guard if that is your point.
Lemieux is a 5th round rookie starting at Guard, the most experienced Guard in Zeitler was released, the Giants signed another struggling Guard in Fulton in free agency, and then they completely ignore the interior OL in the past draft.
Jones isn't the only one who needs to step up...
Lemieux is a 5th round rookie starting at Guard, the most experienced Guard in Zeitler was released, the Giants signed another struggling Guard in Fulton in free agency, and then they completely ignore the interior OL in the past draft.
The offense completely hinges on Judge’s and Gettleman’s thesis that Peart, Lemieux, and Hernandez will all simultaneously develop into adequate, reliable starters.
Those odds feel low to me. I was very surprised the Giants didn’t acquire another high round player or high talent veteran.
Daniel Jones needs to learn that big time.
As for our third year QB shifting effortlessly in the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield, not sure he can be that sort of QB....
Amen!
In the heat of battle, the linemen need to trust that the QB knows what you're doing as well as what he's doing all the time.
The QB can't be putting himself in places where you can't help him. Failure, correction, work-arounds, reading keys, communication, , exposing weaknesses, all are part of the job.
You're reaching here.
An OL, TE, and backs can either block or they can't. When our OL's get easily beat on 1-to-1 match-ups (or Engram or Barkley), that's not on Daniel Jones.
Aaron Rodgers with the same average pocket time, about 75 more attempts, sacked 25 less times.
These are guys who’ve mastered pocket awareness. It’s a skill.
You’ve got guys like Watson and Wilson who keep plays alive with their feet a lot and get sacked a bunch ultimately. I don’t the think Jones is like that. No doubt the Giants line sucks, but Jones isn’t doing himself many favors back there.
The only point that Schwartz is trying to make here is that the QB has to make the right calls pre snap - and needs to avoid pressure when things break down.
You're reaching here.
An OL, TE, and backs can either block or they can't. When our OL's get easily beat on 1-to-1 match-ups (or Engram or Barkley), that's not on Daniel Jones.
Exactly, This is classic Schwartz. While he may have a point in some regards all he has ever done is blame everyone else for his own shitty play.
I find it amazing that he is still bitter towards the
Giants for releasing him over his injuries. He got paid 6.2M to play 13 games for us and was not really anything but average if that in those games.
In Jones I trust until of course the real games begin when we can truly assess and see where he is.
For those going after Schwartz... Do you really disagree with his take that “pass protection is also the quarterback’s job”?
And did you even read the article and/or watch the video?
Schwartz is referencing ONE SPECIFIC PLAY and pointing out that a “slide right” blocking scheme was called. But once the defense came to the line with four pass rushers stacked on the left, the blocking scheme should have been changed.
He also pointed out that with a rookie center it falls on the QB (Trubisky) to adjust the blocking scheme at the line.
You can hate him if you want, but Schwartz is not wrong here and he also never even mentioned Jones or the Giants.
Many here lead with their hearts, not their brains.
Many here lead with their hearts, not their brains.
I slammed him and said he has a point in some regards but the fact remains it all starts with the line. Also, how on earth does he know if Trobisky was supposed to make the adjustment? We had a rookie center also and he made calls
There is no way Barkley's average per carry is going to drop this year unless he doesn't come back from his ACL injury. This is the best run blocking line he's had in either college or the pros. Yeah the offensive line isn't great, but they certainly run block at the very least top half of the league.
IMO, the only way I see the offensive line sinking us is if one of the tackles get hurt and Solder just sucks, which is definitely not out of the realm of possibility. We don't have great guards, but they clearly feel strongly about the depth
The Chiefs went all in because their window is now. The contracts will catch up with them in a few years. Hopefully, our window starts next year. We almost certainly are drafting a guard in either the first or second round next year. The value will almost certainly meet need with 3 picks in the top 60. With JJ on helm, I trust him to move around to make it happen, either up or down. Didn't happen this year and people need to get over it. It's not like this team is making a SB run, but the pieces are certainly there to make the playoffs and get that valuable experience. They are very well positioned next year.
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And Jones can’t throw the ball when his talent is either to run or throw the long ball, will some of you then realize it’s the OL? What did the Chiefs just do? They couldn’t block so they solved the problem. We sit there with our hand on our ass waiting for ham and eggers to get better rather than address the issue. Don’t give me we drafted a first rounder and 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder on the OL. That’s not addressing if they suck then they need to be replaced. That’s addressing.
There is no way Barkley's average per carry is going to drop this year unless he doesn't come back from his ACL injury. This is the best run blocking line he's had in either college or the pros. Yeah the offensive line isn't great, but they certainly run block at the very least top half of the league.
IMO, the only way I see the offensive line sinking us is if one of the tackles get hurt and Solder just sucks, which is definitely not out of the realm of possibility. We don't have great guards, but they clearly feel strongly about the depth
The Chiefs went all in because their window is now. The contracts will catch up with them in a few years. Hopefully, our window starts next year. We almost certainly are drafting a guard in either the first or second round next year. The value will almost certainly meet need with 3 picks in the top 60. With JJ on helm, I trust him to move around to make it happen, either up or down. Didn't happen this year and people need to get over it. It's not like this team is making a SB run, but the pieces are certainly there to make the playoffs and get that valuable experience. They are very well positioned next year.
If the Giants can be "middle of the pack" in pass protection by mid-season we will win this division.
It goes without saying that we must stay healthy and develop our youth. If these young tackles are as good as I think they wiill be I expect a big year from our ground game and in turn Daniel Jones.
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In comment 15282561 Carl in CT said:
I believe the Giants run blocking will be top 1/3 of the league. There is that kind of potential there especially on the edge and left side.
If the Giants can be "middle of the pack" in pass protection by mid-season we will win this division.
It goes without saying that we must stay healthy and develop our youth. If these young tackles are as good as I think they wiill be I expect a big year from our ground game and in turn Daniel Jones.
I agree, I think they have potential to be a monster run blocking unit. How many teams have a guy like Gates at Center? Nobody, and I love the thought process. How many teams have a left side run blocking unit like that? Nobody again.
The NFL is all about being contrarian, we are going to fuck up teams on the weakside. It's something we are going to build our entire offense on. Yeah if we go down 2 TDs we've already lost, but with this defense and the way we'll be able to run the ball, doubt that happens except against the elite. I totally understand the move moving Hernandez to the right. People will still probably bitch and moan and DJ when he gives up blind side pressure for a fumble, but it's a chess match.
I love JJ because just like Bill, he understands when everyone is going left, you go right, it's how you get deals on the cap. Thats how the Hawks won their SB, drafted and signed a bunch of oversized corners when the league was going small there. The cap is king.
[quote] In comment 15282822 SGMen said:
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In comment 15282620 Zeke's Alibi said:
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In comment 15282561 Carl in CT said:
I believe the Giants run blocking will be top 1/3 of the league. There is that kind of potential there especially on the edge and left side.
If the Giants can be "middle of the pack" in pass protection by mid-season we will win this division.
It goes without saying that we must stay healthy and develop our youth. If these young tackles are as good as I think they wiill be I expect a big year from our ground game and in turn Daniel Jones.
I agree, I think they have potential to be a monster run blocking unit. How many teams have a guy like Gates at Center? Nobody, and I love the thought process. How many teams have a left side run blocking unit like that? Nobody again.
The NFL is all about being contrarian, we are going to fuck up teams on the weakside. It's something we are going to build our entire offense on. Yeah if we go down 2 TDs we've already lost, but with this defense and the way we'll be able to run the ball, doubt that happens except against the elite. I totally understand the move moving Hernandez to the right. People will still probably bitch and moan and DJ when he gives up blind side pressure for a fumble, but it's a chess match.
I love JJ because just like Bill, he understands when everyone is going left, you go right, it's how you get deals on the cap. Thats how the Hawks won their SB, drafted and signed a bunch of oversized corners when the league was going small there. The cap is king. [/quote It isa chess match, always, and we have some fine pieces that may surprise. But the key is our youth developing and exceling beyond expectations. I believe Thomas and Lemiuex will create big holes along with Gates. I think Peart will keep defenders at bay, Hernandez has a shot at holding his own and then some if he wants it bad enough in his contract year.
We need a TE like say K. Smith to surprise and get snaps and block very well.
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In comment 15282620 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15282561 Carl in CT said:
I believe the Giants run blocking will be top 1/3 of the league. There is that kind of potential there especially on the edge and left side.
If the Giants can be "middle of the pack" in pass protection by mid-season we will win this division.
It goes without saying that we must stay healthy and develop our youth. If these young tackles are as good as I think they wiill be I expect a big year from our ground game and in turn Daniel Jones.
I agree, I think they have potential to be a monster run blocking unit. How many teams have a guy like Gates at Center? Nobody, and I love the thought process. How many teams have a left side run blocking unit like that? Nobody again.
How many teams have a monster run blocking unit on the left side like Thomas, Lemieux and Gates?
There is optimism for these guys developing but this is stretching quite a bit.
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In comment 15282822 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 15282620 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15282561 Carl in CT said:
I believe the Giants run blocking will be top 1/3 of the league. There is that kind of potential there especially on the edge and left side.
If the Giants can be "middle of the pack" in pass protection by mid-season we will win this division.
It goes without saying that we must stay healthy and develop our youth. If these young tackles are as good as I think they wiill be I expect a big year from our ground game and in turn Daniel Jones.
I agree, I think they have potential to be a monster run blocking unit. How many teams have a guy like Gates at Center? Nobody, and I love the thought process. How many teams have a left side run blocking unit like that? Nobody again.
How many teams have a monster run blocking unit on the left side like Thomas, Lemieux and Gates?
There is optimism for these guys developing but this is stretching quite a bit.