where she's pursuing her PhD. He's a young CPA, making decent money and her financial aid package pays her a nice little monthly salary as well as health benefits. But there is no way they could live there with their two children if they didn't have subsidized housing on campus. Thankfully they have access to a three-bedroom condo for a five year duration while she does her work at very reasonable cost. I was horrified to hear what housing prices were like a year ago before they landed their housing.
I've got a daughter in Oahu right now with her husband. He's in construction and she's a kindergarten teacher. They've just accepted an offer and will be moving to Jackson Hole. I've been so happy to have them closer to us (we live a couple of hours away from there). Having said that, the housing costs in Jackson are several multiples of what they've been paying for their place in Hawaii.
So yeah, the bay area is expensive, but not unique.
where she's pursuing her PhD. He's a young CPA, making decent money and her financial aid package pays her a nice little monthly salary as well as health benefits. But there is no way they could live there with their two children if they didn't have subsidized housing on campus. Thankfully they have access to a three-bedroom condo for a five year duration while she does her work at very reasonable cost. I was horrified to hear what housing prices were like a year ago before they landed their housing.
I've got a daughter in Oahu right now with her husband. He's in construction and she's a kindergarten teacher. They've just accepted an offer and will be moving to Jackson Hole. I've been so happy to have them closer to us (we live a couple of hours away from there). Having said that, the housing costs in Jackson are several multiples of what they've been paying for their place in Hawaii.
So yeah, the bay area is expensive, but not unique.
I knew Jackson Hole is loved by the wealthy, but didn't think the prices were that bad, especially since Hawaii isn't exactly known for low housing costs.
People like to make a big political thing about when folks leave a
state, but in most cases it's kind of a natural economic cycle. You can't expect housing prices to grow indefinitely without encouraging folks to move to a cheaper area.
Folks have been leaving CT, where I live, pretty steadily for a while now. COVID seems to have brought a bunch of work at home NYers to CT now. Politics can affect market conditions but are not the primary determining factor of market conditions. We're happy here now. When I retire in 15 years or so, I expect we'll find somewhere cheaper to live.
We left 2x - once to NC and the last time to Austin, TX. I had to head there in between for career, but glad I left. Just met with an old colleague of mine who was visiting ATX this past weekend.
His comments ran the range from cost, increasing taxes to feeling less welcome as a moderate conservative. It will be interesting as patterns change where people live. COVID has shown a lot of folks in the tech field that they can live wherever they want and get their job done.
where she's pursuing her PhD. He's a young CPA, making decent money and her financial aid package pays her a nice little monthly salary as well as health benefits. But there is no way they could live there with their two children if they didn't have subsidized housing on campus. Thankfully they have access to a three-bedroom condo for a five year duration while she does her work at very reasonable cost. I was horrified to hear what housing prices were like a year ago before they landed their housing.
I've got a daughter in Oahu right now with her husband. He's in construction and she's a kindergarten teacher. They've just accepted an offer and will be moving to Jackson Hole. I've been so happy to have them closer to us (we live a couple of hours away from there). Having said that, the housing costs in Jackson are several multiples of what they've been paying for their place in Hawaii.
So yeah, the bay area is expensive, but not unique.
I knew Jackson Hole is loved by the wealthy, but didn't think the prices were that bad, especially since Hawaii isn't exactly known for low housing costs.
Yeah, I was surprised at how difficult they've found it.
He's going to be building a $35MM mansion, I recommended he just camp out on the property until the job's done. Only kind of kidding.
RE: RE: RE: My son and his wife are at Stanford...
Back in 2004 I worked for a very large bank as a senior manager. I was offered a new position with a relocation package. Part of the benefit package included an analysis of my current housing (square footage, property size, number beds/baths/garage, etc., as well as the size of my mortgage) with a guarantee of the same type of housing in the new market with no change in indebtedness.
I was recruited to three areas - SF, Reno, and Albuquerque. For a variety of reasons I chose ABQ, and I think it was the right move for me professionally and for my family.
Having said that, the terms of the mortgage were that after 4 years of service in that position the equity was all transferred to me. In other words, my home in Colorado Springs was valued at the time around $275k and my debt on it was around $110. The comparable home in SF was $2.1MM, which means had I taken the job there and lasted the four years I would have received a "bonus" in equity of almost $2MM. Of course the housing market was crashing right about then, so who knows what it would have been worth, but today that same house would probably be worth much, much more.
I made my decision based on other factors but sometimes wonder if it wouldn't have been wiser to go the other direction.
RE: RE: RE: RE: My son and his wife are at Stanford...
Yeah, I was surprised at how difficult they've found it.
He's going to be building a $35MM mansion, I recommended he just camp out on the property until the job's done. Only kind of kidding.
Why leave at that point? I'm sure there's a remote corner of the estate that the wealthy owner will never use...
=D
Right? I mean he could almost build a small underground dwelling that would go unnoticed by the homeowner. Get in good with the dogs and other security and make a go of it. LOL.
I lived in downtown Palo Alto during the summer between my first and second years of law school at Stanford (1970). I rented a small house with two bedrooms. I forget the cost but it wasn't much. By 1980, that small house sold for well over a million dollars (unfortunately I only rented and never owned it). It has since been displaced by a larger apartment complex.
Housing prices throughout the Bay Area are insane. The median house price in and around Berkeley climbed by well over 25% between 2020 and 2021 according to a real estate agent friend. And the prices were sky high to begin with. The same is true here in Boston.
That's why we're taking advantage of the hot market and moving this summer out to somewhere in the Seattle area. Bye bye cold weather and snow and really hot and humid summers. Hello beautiful country.
RE: The question is how much house do you want for your money?
NFL rookies earing the minimum salary are not going to buy a 5000sf mansion on $660K/year in the Bay Area. Most NFL rookies can probably rent a 2BR/2BA condo with all the amenities for $3,000/month and For condos in SF the rule of thumb is about +$1000/sf, but that might be going up due to COVID since the inventory is really low which has driven prices up. I live up in Marin and small 1200sf houses houses are going for well over 7 figures. I joke with my sister in TX all the time that I paid the same for my house as she did and can probably fit it in her guest wing.
Income taxes are high in CA, but property tax is capped at 1% of purchase price which really makes difference over long period of time. Other states with no income tax (TX, FL and WA) all have higher property taxes. The 2018 tax cut act actually made things slightly worse for homeowners by capping SALT deductions at 10k.
COVID has actually put a hurting on rental properties, because the idea is "If I'm telecommuting, why live in downtown San Jose when I can live in San Ramon?".
I experienced this first hand as an owner in the area, had to reduce rent prices a few hundred bucks a month just recently.
$3k will def rent a nice 2BR apt in the area. The nicest possible? Not sure, but should be nice enough.
I think the San Fernando Valley is an underrated deal. I can be in Hollywood, Downtown, or the West Side/beach in less than an hour. My rent is high nationally but it's lower than what I would pay in NYC or the Bay Area. I have a studio apartment now. For shits and giggles, I look at the rent in places like Little Rock, AR. Not that much of a difference for being in LA where everything is within reach.
California will always be California and its appeal is not dead. I think in the ebb and flow of things, we are at a tough spot, but we will start to match the rest of the nation in time. Early-mid 20s is a good time to have roommates. I think most of these rooks will be alright.
Yeah this is kind of ridiculous considering how much they make
I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
I live in Temecula its So. Cal. wine country. Best weather, great food, no crime and plenty to do. Why live here if its so expensive? Because its worth it.
It's hard enough for the rest of us not making $600k/yr. It's actually more economical to rent than buy if you look at mortgage rate vs rental rate (with 20% down). Yeah you can find more affordable stuff further away, but then you introduce the commuting hell.
I don't know how anyone who makes minimum wage can survive around here. People may laugh (or find it absurd) but if you are making less than $100k you qualify as low income.
RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
It's hard enough for the rest of us not making $600k/yr. It's actually more economical to rent than buy if you look at mortgage rate vs rental rate (with 20% down). Yeah you can find more affordable stuff further away, but then you introduce the commuting hell.
I don't know how anyone who makes minimum wage can survive around here. People may laugh (or find it absurd) but if you are making less than $100k you qualify as low income.
Depending on what market you live in, sometimes it makes more sense to rent. In a densely populated area in Florida I certainly don't meet that criteria and would love to buy, but the market has been flipped on its head in some major cities depending on the outcome of what the work from home movenement lives.
I worked in tech before, and can't believe how many remote opportunities I'm getting. Yeah, Apple, Google, etc want everyone in office, but most these other companies don't have that negotiating power. That's who is buying places in these areas. Shit, we had a poster say Jackson Hole real estate was skyrocketing, wonder why that is? It's not like there is anything out there except beautiful country living and rich bastards to network with.
RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
I live here in probably the most liberal, LQBGT friendly place in the southeast and its exploding. I live downtown and I"m looking at two giants cranes building yet another high rise building. When I lived on the beach and went to school downtown, if I was taking remote summer and come back I'd barely recognize the place.
I was just talking to some other people about this. It's the most diverse state as far as cultures goes in the country with California probably on par.
When people talk about California they never think San Bernindo but that's where a ton of their population lives. I used to think that about Cali too, until I joined the Navy and saw most of the other half.
Florida truly has it all. Northeast Assholes in southeast Florida, Midwest assholes in Southwest Florida, the redneck riviera in the panhandle, Orlanda is a weird combo of yuppy/tourists and local trash, and Jax is practically Alabama. July, August, and some of September suck, but I'd rather deal with that than cold. I can't believe how much some of the retail stores spend on AC, they keep it 65 degrees.
I've always lived near the water here and can't believe people that move inland survive. I wouldn't even move 8 blocks inland into the gayberhood here which is great, but no wind off the water and makes it brutal 4 months of the year. Florida is awesome if you know where to look for what you like.
RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
Weird governance??? Talk of the pot calling out the kettle..me thinks FL has a lot less weirdness.
CA is probably the most beautiful state in the country, but Florida is pretty doggone nice to - kind of like living at the Jersey Shore but with warm water year round and no Philly people invading.
RE: RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
for most people on this board, where you live comes down to personal preference.
If you told me 25 years ago, I'd live the majority of my life in South Carolina, I'd have stabbed you with a speidie stick, folded up my slice of pizza and ate it while you bled.
Since I've been down here, I'll likely never leave the Carolinas - but maybe 20 years from now, I'll wonder what jackass made that comment.
I personally wouldn't live in California or Florida, but those of you that do - I hope you enjoy it.
for most people on this board, where you live comes down to personal preference.
If you told me 25 years ago, I'd live the majority of my life in South Carolina, I'd have stabbed you with a speidie stick, folded up my slice of pizza and ate it while you bled.
Since I've been down here, I'll likely never leave the Carolinas - but maybe 20 years from now, I'll wonder what jackass made that comment.
I personally wouldn't live in California or Florida, but those of you that do - I hope you enjoy it.
We have a kid at Coastal right now, so we've been to SC a few times now and really liked it. Strongly considering it when my wife can retire from the state and I can work from anywhere. Seems like a nice place to live and lots of great golf.
RE: RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Things change and people move.. Once Covid is over NYC area will be back to gaining population.. The reason why everything is expensive in SF, NY and NJ is because an average person makes nearly 80k in NJ and 55k in Fl.. Obviously it sucks only making 600k in SF when there are tons of people making a lot more.. too bad Florida can't provide that kind of income.. Its a good retirement place but wealth building usually happens in the other places..
RE: RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Huh?
Link - ( New Window )
That article is from May 2021, when the vaccine was readily available and numbers were down statewide. During the pandemic, local governments were allowed to vary their restrictions based upon their population densities, preferences, etc. Could you please post links of the various Florida counties and how their restrictions were all the same during the bulk of the pandemic?
The major exception was he would not budge on allowing parents the option of in-person or virtual. He would not allow local school boards to shut down schools to the detriment of children and working parents, particularly single mothers.
People love harping on the negatives of the area- and they are definitely some. But the insane housing costs is because of the all the incredible benefits of the area. It has close to perfect all year round weather, insane earning potential industries, gorgeous major city, great beaches, wineries, mountains, parks etc.
It's not perfect and has its faults- mainly the homeless issue which is major. But the housing is so expensive because its one of the one nicest areas of the world...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Huh?
Link - ( New Window )
That article is from May 2021, when the vaccine was readily available and numbers were down statewide. During the pandemic, local governments were allowed to vary their restrictions based upon their population densities, preferences, etc. Could you please post links of the various Florida counties and how their restrictions were all the same during the bulk of the pandemic?
The major exception was he would not budge on allowing parents the option of in-person or virtual. He would not allow local school boards to shut down schools to the detriment of children and working parents, particularly single mothers.
In other words, you agree with his dictates. It has nothing to do with allowing local govts to decide what's best for their constituents.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Things change and people move.. Once Covid is over NYC area will be back to gaining population.. The reason why everything is expensive in SF, NY and NJ is because an average person makes nearly 80k in NJ and 55k in Fl.. Obviously it sucks only making 600k in SF when there are tons of people making a lot more.. too bad Florida can't provide that kind of income.. Its a good retirement place but wealth building usually happens in the other places..
As has been said, to each their own. I have lived half my life in NY and half my life (all post-schooling) in FL. I have built quite a bit of wealth in FL, thank you very much. Take higher taxes and cost of living away from that average 80k in NJ, and it's not that much different than the 55k in FL.
It's also a quality of life factor. I also know quite a bit of people in my field that went to work in the northeast. They work much longer hours (and weekends). I generally leave work at 5 and can count on one hand the amount of Saturdays I have worked in my career. They may make more, but still live in a tiny apartment. I have a 3,800 sq ft house on half an acre. To each their own.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Huh?
Link - ( New Window )
That article is from May 2021, when the vaccine was readily available and numbers were down statewide. During the pandemic, local governments were allowed to vary their restrictions based upon their population densities, preferences, etc. Could you please post links of the various Florida counties and how their restrictions were all the same during the bulk of the pandemic?
The major exception was he would not budge on allowing parents the option of in-person or virtual. He would not allow local school boards to shut down schools to the detriment of children and working parents, particularly single mothers.
In other words, you agree with his dictates. It has nothing to do with allowing local govts to decide what's best for their constituents.
If you call making sure children are properly educated as "dictates," I don't know what to tell you. Anyone I know who had their children on virtual (from all sides of the aisle) agreed it was an abject disaster. My children completed a proper school year with no issues in either of their schools.
it's that he now has authority to overturn any local ordinances regarding mask mandates, dining restrictions, etc.
I'm not against empowering local leaders. I just can't stand hypocrisy that is for govt intrusions when it agrees with them and against govt when it doesn't.
and managing the pandemic for the past year (as you claim), then why are they suddenly unable to continue making the correct decisions regarding their constituents?
and she excelled. But thanks for speaking for me based on your politics!
Not speaking for you. Speaking on behalf of quite a bit of people I know who had terrible experiences, whether teachers, parents, or students. Also speaking of a parent of 4 whose children were virtual for a couple months in spring ‘20 and then were in person for ‘20-‘21 school year. My children did much better with in person learning. If we wanted to, we could have chosen virtual. Imagine that: the ability to make what choices are best for your children.
Reality is that those who are hurt most by forced remote learning were those from lower income families. That has been well documented. Plenty of articles and research on that. Link - ( New Window )
Ok, if you want to continue trying to deflect go for it. I never once said schools shouldn't have provided the option of both in-person and virtual.
The hypocrisy is that you were for 'empowering local govts' to make decisions all along, but now you support the governors ability to block localities from maintaining mask mandates and other restrictions intended to limit the spread...
I'm out though. No desire to waste more time arguing with someone that can't understand basic facts.
Ok, if you want to continue trying to deflect go for it. I never once said schools shouldn't have provided the option of both in-person and virtual.
The hypocrisy is that you were for 'empowering local govts' to make decisions all along, but now you support the governors ability to block localities from maintaining mask mandates and other restrictions intended to limit the spread...
I'm out though. No desire to waste more time arguing with someone that can't understand basic facts.
I'm sorry you fail to understand the difference between providing all citizens with an education (which didn't happen with virtual-only learning), and restrictions on gatherings, restaurants, concerts, sporting events, etc.
I can't believe someone is actually bringing up education
Florida is 7th lowest average SAT score.. Granted its one of like 11 states that has 100% participation but NJ is well above 80% participation and averages almost 100 points more than FL.. Trust me unless you are one of the rich ones in Florida it just doesn't compare.. NJ education for average people >>>> Florida.. and if you are already rich then my statement is true its a great place once you've built wealth..
People love harping on the negatives of the area- and they are definitely some. But the insane housing costs is because of the all the incredible benefits of the area. It has close to perfect all year round weather, insane earning potential industries, gorgeous major city, great beaches, wineries, mountains, parks etc.
It's not perfect and has its faults- mainly the homeless issue which is major. But the housing is so expensive because its one of the one nicest areas of the world...
That's part of it, but I don't think it's the main reason. NIMBYism, regualtory hurdles, property tax cap, etc have all exacerbated the issue where the supply can't keep up with demand.
People don't sell houses they have owned for 30+ years, even to downsize, because their property tax burden will be greater than what they currently pay.
People who got in 30 years ago don't want their community to change so they fight any medium/high density development that may actually help ease the housing.
The homelessness and increase in car/home break-ins isn't very helpful either.
You have all of these factors that have come to ahead that have created a real crisis. If they green lit every housing project in the bay today, it would still take years to find equilibrium.
RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida was sparsely populated swampland until the advent of air conditioning for a reason.
Florida is 7th lowest average SAT score.. Granted its one of like 11 states that has 100% participation but NJ is well above 80% participation and averages almost 100 points more than FL.. Trust me unless you are one of the rich ones in Florida it just doesn't compare.. NJ education for average people >>>> Florida.. and if you are already rich then my statement is true its a great place once you've built wealth..
Alabama and Arkansas have higher SAT scores than NJ. Participation rate is a MAJOR factor in average state SAT scores, as are demographics. You are really comparing apples to oranges. In a state like Florida, that has 100% participation rate in SAT scores, do you know how many Creole speakers, immigrants, Spanish-speakers, etc. you have? If you take out the bottom 20% of test takers as a state like NJ does, I'm sure the scores would be much differently.
Anecdotely, the public schools my kids go to are much better than the ones I grew up going to in NY. Like anything else, there's bad and good. Each state has bad school districts, good school districts, and mediocre ones. Link - ( New Window )
KDavies…your school districts are certainly the exception to the rule.
If I ever had kids, they’d be going to private school unless I lived in one of the handful of districts with good schools. Most the people I’ve met that actually grew up here, don’t seem to have the best of educations. Teacher pay is a joke here and they certainly aren’t grabbing from a pool of people I’d want teaching my kids. Common core was also an unmitigated disaster.
That's part of it, but I don't think it's the main reason. NIMBYism, regualtory hurdles, property tax cap, etc have all exacerbated the issue where the supply can't keep up with demand.
People don't sell houses they have owned for 30+ years, even to downsize, because their property tax burden will be greater than what they currently pay.
People who got in 30 years ago don't want their community to change so they fight any medium/high density development that may actually help ease the housing.
The homelessness and increase in car/home break-ins isn't very helpful either.
You have all of these factors that have come to ahead that have created a real crisis. If they green lit every housing project in the bay today, it would still take years to find equilibrium.
Yeah the NIMBYism is the biggest reason for all that crap they deal with. There’s people that bought houses 40 years ago and are rich now for the single fact they’ve successfully fought every development plan down.
Florida certainly learned from that lesson, new large residential buildings going up all over the place. They don’t give a fuck it’s not going to skyrocket your home price.
RE: KDavies…your school districts are certainly the exception to the rule.
If I ever had kids, they’d be going to private school unless I lived in one of the handful of districts with good schools. Most the people I’ve met that actually grew up here, don’t seem to have the best of educations. Teacher pay is a joke here and they certainly aren’t grabbing from a pool of people I’d want teaching my kids. Common core was also an unmitigated disaster.
Yeah, common core is awful. Academics wise, the schools have been excellent. The problem we are running into is some of the garbage the county-wide school boards want to shove down their throats. We are transitioning to a really good charter school (that sometimes takes years to get into) for K-8. We have one kid in, so that will make it easier to get the others in. We will likely be doing private for high school. Again, nothing to do with the academics, but the school board.
RE: KDavies…your school districts are certainly the exception to the rule.
If I ever had kids, they’d be going to private school unless I lived in one of the handful of districts with good schools. Most the people I’ve met that actually grew up here, don’t seem to have the best of educations. Teacher pay is a joke here and they certainly aren’t grabbing from a pool of people I’d want teaching my kids. Common core was also an unmitigated disaster.
is that they have county-wide superintendent and school boards. Where I grew up in NY, each school had its own superintendent and school board. I really think both extremes are ridiculous.
you mean the Crap Map App?
I've got a daughter in Oahu right now with her husband. He's in construction and she's a kindergarten teacher. They've just accepted an offer and will be moving to Jackson Hole. I've been so happy to have them closer to us (we live a couple of hours away from there). Having said that, the housing costs in Jackson are several multiples of what they've been paying for their place in Hawaii.
So yeah, the bay area is expensive, but not unique.
I've got a daughter in Oahu right now with her husband. He's in construction and she's a kindergarten teacher. They've just accepted an offer and will be moving to Jackson Hole. I've been so happy to have them closer to us (we live a couple of hours away from there). Having said that, the housing costs in Jackson are several multiples of what they've been paying for their place in Hawaii.
So yeah, the bay area is expensive, but not unique.
I knew Jackson Hole is loved by the wealthy, but didn't think the prices were that bad, especially since Hawaii isn't exactly known for low housing costs.
Folks have been leaving CT, where I live, pretty steadily for a while now. COVID seems to have brought a bunch of work at home NYers to CT now. Politics can affect market conditions but are not the primary determining factor of market conditions. We're happy here now. When I retire in 15 years or so, I expect we'll find somewhere cheaper to live.
His comments ran the range from cost, increasing taxes to feeling less welcome as a moderate conservative. It will be interesting as patterns change where people live. COVID has shown a lot of folks in the tech field that they can live wherever they want and get their job done.
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where she's pursuing her PhD. He's a young CPA, making decent money and her financial aid package pays her a nice little monthly salary as well as health benefits. But there is no way they could live there with their two children if they didn't have subsidized housing on campus. Thankfully they have access to a three-bedroom condo for a five year duration while she does her work at very reasonable cost. I was horrified to hear what housing prices were like a year ago before they landed their housing.
I've got a daughter in Oahu right now with her husband. He's in construction and she's a kindergarten teacher. They've just accepted an offer and will be moving to Jackson Hole. I've been so happy to have them closer to us (we live a couple of hours away from there). Having said that, the housing costs in Jackson are several multiples of what they've been paying for their place in Hawaii.
So yeah, the bay area is expensive, but not unique.
I knew Jackson Hole is loved by the wealthy, but didn't think the prices were that bad, especially since Hawaii isn't exactly known for low housing costs.
Yeah, I was surprised at how difficult they've found it.
He's going to be building a $35MM mansion, I recommended he just camp out on the property until the job's done. Only kind of kidding.
Yeah, I was surprised at how difficult they've found it.
He's going to be building a $35MM mansion, I recommended he just camp out on the property until the job's done. Only kind of kidding.
Why leave at that point? I'm sure there's a remote corner of the estate that the wealthy owner will never use...
=D
I was recruited to three areas - SF, Reno, and Albuquerque. For a variety of reasons I chose ABQ, and I think it was the right move for me professionally and for my family.
Having said that, the terms of the mortgage were that after 4 years of service in that position the equity was all transferred to me. In other words, my home in Colorado Springs was valued at the time around $275k and my debt on it was around $110. The comparable home in SF was $2.1MM, which means had I taken the job there and lasted the four years I would have received a "bonus" in equity of almost $2MM. Of course the housing market was crashing right about then, so who knows what it would have been worth, but today that same house would probably be worth much, much more.
I made my decision based on other factors but sometimes wonder if it wouldn't have been wiser to go the other direction.
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In comment 15282219 giants#1 said:
Yeah, I was surprised at how difficult they've found it.
He's going to be building a $35MM mansion, I recommended he just camp out on the property until the job's done. Only kind of kidding.
Why leave at that point? I'm sure there's a remote corner of the estate that the wealthy owner will never use...
=D
Right? I mean he could almost build a small underground dwelling that would go unnoticed by the homeowner. Get in good with the dogs and other security and make a go of it. LOL.
Housing prices throughout the Bay Area are insane. The median house price in and around Berkeley climbed by well over 25% between 2020 and 2021 according to a real estate agent friend. And the prices were sky high to begin with. The same is true here in Boston.
That's why we're taking advantage of the hot market and moving this summer out to somewhere in the Seattle area. Bye bye cold weather and snow and really hot and humid summers. Hello beautiful country.
Income taxes are high in CA, but property tax is capped at 1% of purchase price which really makes difference over long period of time. Other states with no income tax (TX, FL and WA) all have higher property taxes. The 2018 tax cut act actually made things slightly worse for homeowners by capping SALT deductions at 10k.
COVID has actually put a hurting on rental properties, because the idea is "If I'm telecommuting, why live in downtown San Jose when I can live in San Ramon?".
I experienced this first hand as an owner in the area, had to reduce rent prices a few hundred bucks a month just recently.
$3k will def rent a nice 2BR apt in the area. The nicest possible? Not sure, but should be nice enough.
California will always be California and its appeal is not dead. I think in the ebb and flow of things, we are at a tough spot, but we will start to match the rest of the nation in time. Early-mid 20s is a good time to have roommates. I think most of these rooks will be alright.
The draw of the Bay Area for many workers and businesses is the wage potential and wealth building potential.
Who are the major employers in your area of Florida?
I don't know how anyone who makes minimum wage can survive around here. People may laugh (or find it absurd) but if you are making less than $100k you qualify as low income.
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
I don't know how anyone who makes minimum wage can survive around here. People may laugh (or find it absurd) but if you are making less than $100k you qualify as low income.
Depending on what market you live in, sometimes it makes more sense to rent. In a densely populated area in Florida I certainly don't meet that criteria and would love to buy, but the market has been flipped on its head in some major cities depending on the outcome of what the work from home movenement lives.
I worked in tech before, and can't believe how many remote opportunities I'm getting. Yeah, Apple, Google, etc want everyone in office, but most these other companies don't have that negotiating power. That's who is buying places in these areas. Shit, we had a poster say Jackson Hole real estate was skyrocketing, wonder why that is? It's not like there is anything out there except beautiful country living and rich bastards to network with.
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I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
I live here in probably the most liberal, LQBGT friendly place in the southeast and its exploding. I live downtown and I"m looking at two giants cranes building yet another high rise building. When I lived on the beach and went to school downtown, if I was taking remote summer and come back I'd barely recognize the place.
I was just talking to some other people about this. It's the most diverse state as far as cultures goes in the country with California probably on par.
When people talk about California they never think San Bernindo but that's where a ton of their population lives. I used to think that about Cali too, until I joined the Navy and saw most of the other half.
Florida truly has it all. Northeast Assholes in southeast Florida, Midwest assholes in Southwest Florida, the redneck riviera in the panhandle, Orlanda is a weird combo of yuppy/tourists and local trash, and Jax is practically Alabama. July, August, and some of September suck, but I'd rather deal with that than cold. I can't believe how much some of the retail stores spend on AC, they keep it 65 degrees.
I've always lived near the water here and can't believe people that move inland survive. I wouldn't even move 8 blocks inland into the gayberhood here which is great, but no wind off the water and makes it brutal 4 months of the year. Florida is awesome if you know where to look for what you like.
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I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Weird governance??? Talk of the pot calling out the kettle..me thinks FL has a lot less weirdness.
CA is probably the most beautiful state in the country, but Florida is pretty doggone nice to - kind of like living at the Jersey Shore but with warm water year round and no Philly people invading.
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In comment 15282716 floridagiantsfan said:
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I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Okay.
If you told me 25 years ago, I'd live the majority of my life in South Carolina, I'd have stabbed you with a speidie stick, folded up my slice of pizza and ate it while you bled.
Since I've been down here, I'll likely never leave the Carolinas - but maybe 20 years from now, I'll wonder what jackass made that comment.
I personally wouldn't live in California or Florida, but those of you that do - I hope you enjoy it.
If you told me 25 years ago, I'd live the majority of my life in South Carolina, I'd have stabbed you with a speidie stick, folded up my slice of pizza and ate it while you bled.
Since I've been down here, I'll likely never leave the Carolinas - but maybe 20 years from now, I'll wonder what jackass made that comment.
I personally wouldn't live in California or Florida, but those of you that do - I hope you enjoy it.
We have a kid at Coastal right now, so we've been to SC a few times now and really liked it. Strongly considering it when my wife can retire from the state and I can work from anywhere. Seems like a nice place to live and lots of great golf.
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In comment 15282716 floridagiantsfan said:
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I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Things change and people move.. Once Covid is over NYC area will be back to gaining population.. The reason why everything is expensive in SF, NY and NJ is because an average person makes nearly 80k in NJ and 55k in Fl.. Obviously it sucks only making 600k in SF when there are tons of people making a lot more.. too bad Florida can't provide that kind of income.. Its a good retirement place but wealth building usually happens in the other places..
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Huh?
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That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Huh?
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That article is from May 2021, when the vaccine was readily available and numbers were down statewide. During the pandemic, local governments were allowed to vary their restrictions based upon their population densities, preferences, etc. Could you please post links of the various Florida counties and how their restrictions were all the same during the bulk of the pandemic?
The major exception was he would not budge on allowing parents the option of in-person or virtual. He would not allow local school boards to shut down schools to the detriment of children and working parents, particularly single mothers.
It's not perfect and has its faults- mainly the homeless issue which is major. But the housing is so expensive because its one of the one nicest areas of the world...
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In comment 15282907 KDavies said:
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That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Huh?
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That article is from May 2021, when the vaccine was readily available and numbers were down statewide. During the pandemic, local governments were allowed to vary their restrictions based upon their population densities, preferences, etc. Could you please post links of the various Florida counties and how their restrictions were all the same during the bulk of the pandemic?
The major exception was he would not budge on allowing parents the option of in-person or virtual. He would not allow local school boards to shut down schools to the detriment of children and working parents, particularly single mothers.
In other words, you agree with his dictates. It has nothing to do with allowing local govts to decide what's best for their constituents.
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In comment 15282785 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 15282716 floridagiantsfan said:
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I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Things change and people move.. Once Covid is over NYC area will be back to gaining population.. The reason why everything is expensive in SF, NY and NJ is because an average person makes nearly 80k in NJ and 55k in Fl.. Obviously it sucks only making 600k in SF when there are tons of people making a lot more.. too bad Florida can't provide that kind of income.. Its a good retirement place but wealth building usually happens in the other places..
As has been said, to each their own. I have lived half my life in NY and half my life (all post-schooling) in FL. I have built quite a bit of wealth in FL, thank you very much. Take higher taxes and cost of living away from that average 80k in NJ, and it's not that much different than the 55k in FL.
It's also a quality of life factor. I also know quite a bit of people in my field that went to work in the northeast. They work much longer hours (and weekends). I generally leave work at 5 and can count on one hand the amount of Saturdays I have worked in my career. They may make more, but still live in a tiny apartment. I have a 3,800 sq ft house on half an acre. To each their own.
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In comment 15282964 giants#1 said:
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In comment 15282907 KDavies said:
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That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Huh?
Link - ( New Window )
That article is from May 2021, when the vaccine was readily available and numbers were down statewide. During the pandemic, local governments were allowed to vary their restrictions based upon their population densities, preferences, etc. Could you please post links of the various Florida counties and how their restrictions were all the same during the bulk of the pandemic?
The major exception was he would not budge on allowing parents the option of in-person or virtual. He would not allow local school boards to shut down schools to the detriment of children and working parents, particularly single mothers.
In other words, you agree with his dictates. It has nothing to do with allowing local govts to decide what's best for their constituents.
If you call making sure children are properly educated as "dictates," I don't know what to tell you. Anyone I know who had their children on virtual (from all sides of the aisle) agreed it was an abject disaster. My children completed a proper school year with no issues in either of their schools.
I'm not against empowering local leaders. I just can't stand hypocrisy that is for govt intrusions when it agrees with them and against govt when it doesn't.
Not speaking for you. Speaking on behalf of quite a bit of people I know who had terrible experiences, whether teachers, parents, or students. Also speaking of a parent of 4 whose children were virtual for a couple months in spring ‘20 and then were in person for ‘20-‘21 school year. My children did much better with in person learning. If we wanted to, we could have chosen virtual. Imagine that: the ability to make what choices are best for your children.
Reality is that those who are hurt most by forced remote learning were those from lower income families. That has been well documented. Plenty of articles and research on that.
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Ok, if you want to continue trying to deflect go for it. I never once said schools shouldn't have provided the option of both in-person and virtual.
The hypocrisy is that you were for 'empowering local govts' to make decisions all along, but now you support the governors ability to block localities from maintaining mask mandates and other restrictions intended to limit the spread...
I'm out though. No desire to waste more time arguing with someone that can't understand basic facts.
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access to a quality education is hypocrisy.
Ok, if you want to continue trying to deflect go for it. I never once said schools shouldn't have provided the option of both in-person and virtual.
The hypocrisy is that you were for 'empowering local govts' to make decisions all along, but now you support the governors ability to block localities from maintaining mask mandates and other restrictions intended to limit the spread...
I'm out though. No desire to waste more time arguing with someone that can't understand basic facts.
I'm sorry you fail to understand the difference between providing all citizens with an education (which didn't happen with virtual-only learning), and restrictions on gatherings, restaurants, concerts, sporting events, etc.
Florida is 7th lowest average SAT score.. Granted its one of like 11 states that has 100% participation but NJ is well above 80% participation and averages almost 100 points more than FL.. Trust me unless you are one of the rich ones in Florida it just doesn't compare.. NJ education for average people >>>> Florida.. and if you are already rich then my statement is true its a great place once you've built wealth..
It's not perfect and has its faults- mainly the homeless issue which is major. But the housing is so expensive because its one of the one nicest areas of the world...
That's part of it, but I don't think it's the main reason. NIMBYism, regualtory hurdles, property tax cap, etc have all exacerbated the issue where the supply can't keep up with demand.
People don't sell houses they have owned for 30+ years, even to downsize, because their property tax burden will be greater than what they currently pay.
People who got in 30 years ago don't want their community to change so they fight any medium/high density development that may actually help ease the housing.
The homelessness and increase in car/home break-ins isn't very helpful either.
You have all of these factors that have come to ahead that have created a real crisis. If they green lit every housing project in the bay today, it would still take years to find equilibrium.
Florida was sparsely populated swampland until the advent of air conditioning for a reason.
Florida is 7th lowest average SAT score.. Granted its one of like 11 states that has 100% participation but NJ is well above 80% participation and averages almost 100 points more than FL.. Trust me unless you are one of the rich ones in Florida it just doesn't compare.. NJ education for average people >>>> Florida.. and if you are already rich then my statement is true its a great place once you've built wealth..
Alabama and Arkansas have higher SAT scores than NJ. Participation rate is a MAJOR factor in average state SAT scores, as are demographics. You are really comparing apples to oranges. In a state like Florida, that has 100% participation rate in SAT scores, do you know how many Creole speakers, immigrants, Spanish-speakers, etc. you have? If you take out the bottom 20% of test takers as a state like NJ does, I'm sure the scores would be much differently.
Anecdotely, the public schools my kids go to are much better than the ones I grew up going to in NY. Like anything else, there's bad and good. Each state has bad school districts, good school districts, and mediocre ones.
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That's part of it, but I don't think it's the main reason. NIMBYism, regualtory hurdles, property tax cap, etc have all exacerbated the issue where the supply can't keep up with demand.
People don't sell houses they have owned for 30+ years, even to downsize, because their property tax burden will be greater than what they currently pay.
People who got in 30 years ago don't want their community to change so they fight any medium/high density development that may actually help ease the housing.
The homelessness and increase in car/home break-ins isn't very helpful either.
You have all of these factors that have come to ahead that have created a real crisis. If they green lit every housing project in the bay today, it would still take years to find equilibrium.
Yeah the NIMBYism is the biggest reason for all that crap they deal with. There’s people that bought houses 40 years ago and are rich now for the single fact they’ve successfully fought every development plan down.
Florida certainly learned from that lesson, new large residential buildings going up all over the place. They don’t give a fuck it’s not going to skyrocket your home price.
Yeah, common core is awful. Academics wise, the schools have been excellent. The problem we are running into is some of the garbage the county-wide school boards want to shove down their throats. We are transitioning to a really good charter school (that sometimes takes years to get into) for K-8. We have one kid in, so that will make it easier to get the others in. We will likely be doing private for high school. Again, nothing to do with the academics, but the school board.
That's country-wide though.