People love harping on the negatives of the area- and they are definitely some. But the insane housing costs is because of the all the incredible benefits of the area. It has close to perfect all year round weather, insane earning potential industries, gorgeous major city, great beaches, wineries, mountains, parks etc.
It's not perfect and has its faults- mainly the homeless issue which is major. But the housing is so expensive because its one of the one nicest areas of the world...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Huh?
Link - ( New Window )
That article is from May 2021, when the vaccine was readily available and numbers were down statewide. During the pandemic, local governments were allowed to vary their restrictions based upon their population densities, preferences, etc. Could you please post links of the various Florida counties and how their restrictions were all the same during the bulk of the pandemic?
The major exception was he would not budge on allowing parents the option of in-person or virtual. He would not allow local school boards to shut down schools to the detriment of children and working parents, particularly single mothers.
In other words, you agree with his dictates. It has nothing to do with allowing local govts to decide what's best for their constituents.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Things change and people move.. Once Covid is over NYC area will be back to gaining population.. The reason why everything is expensive in SF, NY and NJ is because an average person makes nearly 80k in NJ and 55k in Fl.. Obviously it sucks only making 600k in SF when there are tons of people making a lot more.. too bad Florida can't provide that kind of income.. Its a good retirement place but wealth building usually happens in the other places..
As has been said, to each their own. I have lived half my life in NY and half my life (all post-schooling) in FL. I have built quite a bit of wealth in FL, thank you very much. Take higher taxes and cost of living away from that average 80k in NJ, and it's not that much different than the 55k in FL.
It's also a quality of life factor. I also know quite a bit of people in my field that went to work in the northeast. They work much longer hours (and weekends). I generally leave work at 5 and can count on one hand the amount of Saturdays I have worked in my career. They may make more, but still live in a tiny apartment. I have a 3,800 sq ft house on half an acre. To each their own.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Huh?
Link - ( New Window )
That article is from May 2021, when the vaccine was readily available and numbers were down statewide. During the pandemic, local governments were allowed to vary their restrictions based upon their population densities, preferences, etc. Could you please post links of the various Florida counties and how their restrictions were all the same during the bulk of the pandemic?
The major exception was he would not budge on allowing parents the option of in-person or virtual. He would not allow local school boards to shut down schools to the detriment of children and working parents, particularly single mothers.
In other words, you agree with his dictates. It has nothing to do with allowing local govts to decide what's best for their constituents.
If you call making sure children are properly educated as "dictates," I don't know what to tell you. Anyone I know who had their children on virtual (from all sides of the aisle) agreed it was an abject disaster. My children completed a proper school year with no issues in either of their schools.
it's that he now has authority to overturn any local ordinances regarding mask mandates, dining restrictions, etc.
I'm not against empowering local leaders. I just can't stand hypocrisy that is for govt intrusions when it agrees with them and against govt when it doesn't.
and managing the pandemic for the past year (as you claim), then why are they suddenly unable to continue making the correct decisions regarding their constituents?
and she excelled. But thanks for speaking for me based on your politics!
Not speaking for you. Speaking on behalf of quite a bit of people I know who had terrible experiences, whether teachers, parents, or students. Also speaking of a parent of 4 whose children were virtual for a couple months in spring ‘20 and then were in person for ‘20-‘21 school year. My children did much better with in person learning. If we wanted to, we could have chosen virtual. Imagine that: the ability to make what choices are best for your children.
Reality is that those who are hurt most by forced remote learning were those from lower income families. That has been well documented. Plenty of articles and research on that. Link - ( New Window )
Ok, if you want to continue trying to deflect go for it. I never once said schools shouldn't have provided the option of both in-person and virtual.
The hypocrisy is that you were for 'empowering local govts' to make decisions all along, but now you support the governors ability to block localities from maintaining mask mandates and other restrictions intended to limit the spread...
I'm out though. No desire to waste more time arguing with someone that can't understand basic facts.
Ok, if you want to continue trying to deflect go for it. I never once said schools shouldn't have provided the option of both in-person and virtual.
The hypocrisy is that you were for 'empowering local govts' to make decisions all along, but now you support the governors ability to block localities from maintaining mask mandates and other restrictions intended to limit the spread...
I'm out though. No desire to waste more time arguing with someone that can't understand basic facts.
I'm sorry you fail to understand the difference between providing all citizens with an education (which didn't happen with virtual-only learning), and restrictions on gatherings, restaurants, concerts, sporting events, etc.
I can't believe someone is actually bringing up education
Florida is 7th lowest average SAT score.. Granted its one of like 11 states that has 100% participation but NJ is well above 80% participation and averages almost 100 points more than FL.. Trust me unless you are one of the rich ones in Florida it just doesn't compare.. NJ education for average people >>>> Florida.. and if you are already rich then my statement is true its a great place once you've built wealth..
People love harping on the negatives of the area- and they are definitely some. But the insane housing costs is because of the all the incredible benefits of the area. It has close to perfect all year round weather, insane earning potential industries, gorgeous major city, great beaches, wineries, mountains, parks etc.
It's not perfect and has its faults- mainly the homeless issue which is major. But the housing is so expensive because its one of the one nicest areas of the world...
That's part of it, but I don't think it's the main reason. NIMBYism, regualtory hurdles, property tax cap, etc have all exacerbated the issue where the supply can't keep up with demand.
People don't sell houses they have owned for 30+ years, even to downsize, because their property tax burden will be greater than what they currently pay.
People who got in 30 years ago don't want their community to change so they fight any medium/high density development that may actually help ease the housing.
The homelessness and increase in car/home break-ins isn't very helpful either.
You have all of these factors that have come to ahead that have created a real crisis. If they green lit every housing project in the bay today, it would still take years to find equilibrium.
RE: Putting things in perspective Calif vs Florida
I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida was sparsely populated swampland until the advent of air conditioning for a reason.
Florida is 7th lowest average SAT score.. Granted its one of like 11 states that has 100% participation but NJ is well above 80% participation and averages almost 100 points more than FL.. Trust me unless you are one of the rich ones in Florida it just doesn't compare.. NJ education for average people >>>> Florida.. and if you are already rich then my statement is true its a great place once you've built wealth..
Alabama and Arkansas have higher SAT scores than NJ. Participation rate is a MAJOR factor in average state SAT scores, as are demographics. You are really comparing apples to oranges. In a state like Florida, that has 100% participation rate in SAT scores, do you know how many Creole speakers, immigrants, Spanish-speakers, etc. you have? If you take out the bottom 20% of test takers as a state like NJ does, I'm sure the scores would be much differently.
Anecdotely, the public schools my kids go to are much better than the ones I grew up going to in NY. Like anything else, there's bad and good. Each state has bad school districts, good school districts, and mediocre ones. Link - ( New Window )
KDavies…your school districts are certainly the exception to the rule.
If I ever had kids, they’d be going to private school unless I lived in one of the handful of districts with good schools. Most the people I’ve met that actually grew up here, don’t seem to have the best of educations. Teacher pay is a joke here and they certainly aren’t grabbing from a pool of people I’d want teaching my kids. Common core was also an unmitigated disaster.
That's part of it, but I don't think it's the main reason. NIMBYism, regualtory hurdles, property tax cap, etc have all exacerbated the issue where the supply can't keep up with demand.
People don't sell houses they have owned for 30+ years, even to downsize, because their property tax burden will be greater than what they currently pay.
People who got in 30 years ago don't want their community to change so they fight any medium/high density development that may actually help ease the housing.
The homelessness and increase in car/home break-ins isn't very helpful either.
You have all of these factors that have come to ahead that have created a real crisis. If they green lit every housing project in the bay today, it would still take years to find equilibrium.
Yeah the NIMBYism is the biggest reason for all that crap they deal with. There’s people that bought houses 40 years ago and are rich now for the single fact they’ve successfully fought every development plan down.
Florida certainly learned from that lesson, new large residential buildings going up all over the place. They don’t give a fuck it’s not going to skyrocket your home price.
RE: KDavies…your school districts are certainly the exception to the rule.
If I ever had kids, they’d be going to private school unless I lived in one of the handful of districts with good schools. Most the people I’ve met that actually grew up here, don’t seem to have the best of educations. Teacher pay is a joke here and they certainly aren’t grabbing from a pool of people I’d want teaching my kids. Common core was also an unmitigated disaster.
Yeah, common core is awful. Academics wise, the schools have been excellent. The problem we are running into is some of the garbage the county-wide school boards want to shove down their throats. We are transitioning to a really good charter school (that sometimes takes years to get into) for K-8. We have one kid in, so that will make it easier to get the others in. We will likely be doing private for high school. Again, nothing to do with the academics, but the school board.
RE: KDavies…your school districts are certainly the exception to the rule.
If I ever had kids, they’d be going to private school unless I lived in one of the handful of districts with good schools. Most the people I’ve met that actually grew up here, don’t seem to have the best of educations. Teacher pay is a joke here and they certainly aren’t grabbing from a pool of people I’d want teaching my kids. Common core was also an unmitigated disaster.
is that they have county-wide superintendent and school boards. Where I grew up in NY, each school had its own superintendent and school board. I really think both extremes are ridiculous.
It's not perfect and has its faults- mainly the homeless issue which is major. But the housing is so expensive because its one of the one nicest areas of the world...
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In comment 15282907 KDavies said:
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That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Huh?
Link - ( New Window )
That article is from May 2021, when the vaccine was readily available and numbers were down statewide. During the pandemic, local governments were allowed to vary their restrictions based upon their population densities, preferences, etc. Could you please post links of the various Florida counties and how their restrictions were all the same during the bulk of the pandemic?
The major exception was he would not budge on allowing parents the option of in-person or virtual. He would not allow local school boards to shut down schools to the detriment of children and working parents, particularly single mothers.
In other words, you agree with his dictates. It has nothing to do with allowing local govts to decide what's best for their constituents.
Quote:
In comment 15282785 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 15282716 floridagiantsfan said:
Quote:
I live in Florida 10m minutes from the gulf of Mexico. My home is in a gated community and is on a golf course. It's extimated value is $550,000 and is 2700 square feet 4 bedroom 3 baths. My property taxes are $2800 a year and no state income tax. Where would you prefer to live?
Florida or California? CA. Even with all it's problems-high cost of living, wildfires, homelessness, etc.-I am taking CA. I would never live in Florida. Never. No offense, but FL isn't for me. Too weird of a state & their governance...hard pass. To each their own.
That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Things change and people move.. Once Covid is over NYC area will be back to gaining population.. The reason why everything is expensive in SF, NY and NJ is because an average person makes nearly 80k in NJ and 55k in Fl.. Obviously it sucks only making 600k in SF when there are tons of people making a lot more.. too bad Florida can't provide that kind of income.. Its a good retirement place but wealth building usually happens in the other places..
As has been said, to each their own. I have lived half my life in NY and half my life (all post-schooling) in FL. I have built quite a bit of wealth in FL, thank you very much. Take higher taxes and cost of living away from that average 80k in NJ, and it's not that much different than the 55k in FL.
It's also a quality of life factor. I also know quite a bit of people in my field that went to work in the northeast. They work much longer hours (and weekends). I generally leave work at 5 and can count on one hand the amount of Saturdays I have worked in my career. They may make more, but still live in a tiny apartment. I have a 3,800 sq ft house on half an acre. To each their own.
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In comment 15282964 giants#1 said:
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In comment 15282907 KDavies said:
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That’s why Florida is gaining congressional seats, while CA and NY are losing them. People are flocking to FL. My property value has probably gone up about 30% since we bought it less than two years ago. But it’s the right type of people coming. People who value small government and freedom. Not people who support big government controlling every aspect of your life. Rather than put everybody on lockdown, our governance protected the elderly (rather than killing them), and allowed local governments to make their own restrictions for the most part based on their situation. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach for instance are a lot more crowded than Polk County for instance, and thus had a lot more restrictions. Consequently our governor doesn’t have a recall against him and is one of the most popular governors in the country. But that’s by people who actually know what’s going on here, rather than by watching CNN
Huh?
Link - ( New Window )
That article is from May 2021, when the vaccine was readily available and numbers were down statewide. During the pandemic, local governments were allowed to vary their restrictions based upon their population densities, preferences, etc. Could you please post links of the various Florida counties and how their restrictions were all the same during the bulk of the pandemic?
The major exception was he would not budge on allowing parents the option of in-person or virtual. He would not allow local school boards to shut down schools to the detriment of children and working parents, particularly single mothers.
In other words, you agree with his dictates. It has nothing to do with allowing local govts to decide what's best for their constituents.
If you call making sure children are properly educated as "dictates," I don't know what to tell you. Anyone I know who had their children on virtual (from all sides of the aisle) agreed it was an abject disaster. My children completed a proper school year with no issues in either of their schools.
I'm not against empowering local leaders. I just can't stand hypocrisy that is for govt intrusions when it agrees with them and against govt when it doesn't.
Not speaking for you. Speaking on behalf of quite a bit of people I know who had terrible experiences, whether teachers, parents, or students. Also speaking of a parent of 4 whose children were virtual for a couple months in spring ‘20 and then were in person for ‘20-‘21 school year. My children did much better with in person learning. If we wanted to, we could have chosen virtual. Imagine that: the ability to make what choices are best for your children.
Reality is that those who are hurt most by forced remote learning were those from lower income families. That has been well documented. Plenty of articles and research on that.
Link - ( New Window )
Ok, if you want to continue trying to deflect go for it. I never once said schools shouldn't have provided the option of both in-person and virtual.
The hypocrisy is that you were for 'empowering local govts' to make decisions all along, but now you support the governors ability to block localities from maintaining mask mandates and other restrictions intended to limit the spread...
I'm out though. No desire to waste more time arguing with someone that can't understand basic facts.
Quote:
access to a quality education is hypocrisy.
Ok, if you want to continue trying to deflect go for it. I never once said schools shouldn't have provided the option of both in-person and virtual.
The hypocrisy is that you were for 'empowering local govts' to make decisions all along, but now you support the governors ability to block localities from maintaining mask mandates and other restrictions intended to limit the spread...
I'm out though. No desire to waste more time arguing with someone that can't understand basic facts.
I'm sorry you fail to understand the difference between providing all citizens with an education (which didn't happen with virtual-only learning), and restrictions on gatherings, restaurants, concerts, sporting events, etc.
Florida is 7th lowest average SAT score.. Granted its one of like 11 states that has 100% participation but NJ is well above 80% participation and averages almost 100 points more than FL.. Trust me unless you are one of the rich ones in Florida it just doesn't compare.. NJ education for average people >>>> Florida.. and if you are already rich then my statement is true its a great place once you've built wealth..
It's not perfect and has its faults- mainly the homeless issue which is major. But the housing is so expensive because its one of the one nicest areas of the world...
That's part of it, but I don't think it's the main reason. NIMBYism, regualtory hurdles, property tax cap, etc have all exacerbated the issue where the supply can't keep up with demand.
People don't sell houses they have owned for 30+ years, even to downsize, because their property tax burden will be greater than what they currently pay.
People who got in 30 years ago don't want their community to change so they fight any medium/high density development that may actually help ease the housing.
The homelessness and increase in car/home break-ins isn't very helpful either.
You have all of these factors that have come to ahead that have created a real crisis. If they green lit every housing project in the bay today, it would still take years to find equilibrium.
Florida was sparsely populated swampland until the advent of air conditioning for a reason.
Florida is 7th lowest average SAT score.. Granted its one of like 11 states that has 100% participation but NJ is well above 80% participation and averages almost 100 points more than FL.. Trust me unless you are one of the rich ones in Florida it just doesn't compare.. NJ education for average people >>>> Florida.. and if you are already rich then my statement is true its a great place once you've built wealth..
Alabama and Arkansas have higher SAT scores than NJ. Participation rate is a MAJOR factor in average state SAT scores, as are demographics. You are really comparing apples to oranges. In a state like Florida, that has 100% participation rate in SAT scores, do you know how many Creole speakers, immigrants, Spanish-speakers, etc. you have? If you take out the bottom 20% of test takers as a state like NJ does, I'm sure the scores would be much differently.
Anecdotely, the public schools my kids go to are much better than the ones I grew up going to in NY. Like anything else, there's bad and good. Each state has bad school districts, good school districts, and mediocre ones.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
That's part of it, but I don't think it's the main reason. NIMBYism, regualtory hurdles, property tax cap, etc have all exacerbated the issue where the supply can't keep up with demand.
People don't sell houses they have owned for 30+ years, even to downsize, because their property tax burden will be greater than what they currently pay.
People who got in 30 years ago don't want their community to change so they fight any medium/high density development that may actually help ease the housing.
The homelessness and increase in car/home break-ins isn't very helpful either.
You have all of these factors that have come to ahead that have created a real crisis. If they green lit every housing project in the bay today, it would still take years to find equilibrium.
Yeah the NIMBYism is the biggest reason for all that crap they deal with. There’s people that bought houses 40 years ago and are rich now for the single fact they’ve successfully fought every development plan down.
Florida certainly learned from that lesson, new large residential buildings going up all over the place. They don’t give a fuck it’s not going to skyrocket your home price.
Yeah, common core is awful. Academics wise, the schools have been excellent. The problem we are running into is some of the garbage the county-wide school boards want to shove down their throats. We are transitioning to a really good charter school (that sometimes takes years to get into) for K-8. We have one kid in, so that will make it easier to get the others in. We will likely be doing private for high school. Again, nothing to do with the academics, but the school board.
That's country-wide though.