The wife and I were talking about this last night. I say yes they are waiting for him to die so they do not have to give him the honor while he lives.
His Crimea are antiquated as he is the best American hitter of all time (debate with him and Ichiro).
What say you?
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I agree, there was no guarantee he'd be reinstated or even anything less than a guarantee - I'm just telling you what Rose's mindset was at the time (based on what I have read and watched) and the fact the banishment agreement his signed allowed him to apply for reinstatement at I believe the sole discretion of the commissioner.
I remember reading something immediately after the suspension while giving a press conference where Rose said he was looking forward to his daughter's 1st birthday because it was 2 days before he'd be reinstated (something like that).
Rose never got the magnitude of what he did or how serious anyone felt it was, until much later in life.
Great memory man, and I remember that as well.
You’re right about his mindset, and to me that and his ego are what has hurt him big time.
When he agreed to the conditions with Giamatti, it was because he didn’t want the details leaked and figured I’ll just sign this and I’m too big for them to deny me down the road.
I think that arrogance and him basically thumbing his nose at MLB along the way, caused Faye to basically dig his heals in and play some real hard ball. Now they use that agreement as all the evidence they need to keep him out and I don’t think he ever gets in now.
He might’ve had a slight chance years ago if he fessed up, and showed remorse but he took the opposite approach, and is paying the price. Rightfully so to me.
lol, I didn't remember all of this, much of it i had to re-research (there are a ton of video interviews and articles from right after the suspension was announced - youtube, etc. until current day stuff and much from along the way at the various lawsuits, reinstatement applications, and events) but I did remember a lot of it.
and I appreciate your stance - personally I would vote him in if I were handed a ballot and his name was on it because of his on-field merits, he earned it; like I've said I don't feel strongly about it
I get it for people who think he should be banned for eternity and I agree he made his own bed
but I do believe in forgiveness, and I think it's a slippery moral slope when you pick and choose to let people who have committed some transgressions (that also effect the integrity of the game) in the HOF and not others. it's a line people create in their minds in pencil and erase it and move it when it's convenient - I find living that way has to be emotionally tiresome. And I mean PED's, stimulants, doctoring the ball, corking bats, etc.
That's alleged, right?
I mean, it makes sense. Rose did slug 160 HRs over 24 years. ;)
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when he was getting closer to breaking Ty Cobb’s record.
That's alleged, right?
I mean, it makes sense. Rose did slug 160 HRs over 24 years. ;)
Yes, the allegations are all out there to read and follow.
Can’t be surprised though, I hope...
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In comment 15283326 pjcas18 said:
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I agree, there was no guarantee he'd be reinstated or even anything less than a guarantee - I'm just telling you what Rose's mindset was at the time (based on what I have read and watched) and the fact the banishment agreement his signed allowed him to apply for reinstatement at I believe the sole discretion of the commissioner.
I remember reading something immediately after the suspension while giving a press conference where Rose said he was looking forward to his daughter's 1st birthday because it was 2 days before he'd be reinstated (something like that).
Rose never got the magnitude of what he did or how serious anyone felt it was, until much later in life.
Great memory man, and I remember that as well.
You’re right about his mindset, and to me that and his ego are what has hurt him big time.
When he agreed to the conditions with Giamatti, it was because he didn’t want the details leaked and figured I’ll just sign this and I’m too big for them to deny me down the road.
I think that arrogance and him basically thumbing his nose at MLB along the way, caused Faye to basically dig his heals in and play some real hard ball. Now they use that agreement as all the evidence they need to keep him out and I don’t think he ever gets in now.
He might’ve had a slight chance years ago if he fessed up, and showed remorse but he took the opposite approach, and is paying the price. Rightfully so to me.
lol, I didn't remember all of this, much of it i had to re-research (there are a ton of video interviews and articles from right after the suspension was announced - youtube, etc. until current day stuff and much from along the way at the various lawsuits, reinstatement applications, and events) but I did remember a lot of it.
and I appreciate your stance - personally I would vote him in if I were handed a ballot and his name was on it because of his on-field merits, he earned it; like I've said I don't feel strongly about it
I get it for people who think he should be banned for eternity and I agree he made his own bed
but I do believe in forgiveness, and I think it's a slippery moral slope when you pick and choose to let people who have committed some transgressions (that also effect the integrity of the game) in the HOF and not others. it's a line people create in their minds in pencil and erase it and move it when it's convenient - I find living that way has to be emotionally tiresome. And I mean PED's, stimulants, doctoring the ball, corking bats, etc.
One of my best friends is a huge Rose fan and we have this discussion at least once a year. He thinks he should get in and says he loved the way he played. Says they didn’t call him Charlie Hustle for nothing and I always say, yeah, I’d hustle every time too if I had money riding on it.
That usually ends the discussion for another year or so. Lol.
100 percent agree. Don't whitewash history. It's not like we're renaming JFK International because Kennedy screwed around.
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I’d prefer the HOF recognize accomplishments and shortcomings in an exhibit. Rose, the Black Sox, PEDs. etc. It’s silly to leave out big chapters of the book, just to punish the characters.
100 percent agree. Don't whitewash history. It's not like we're renaming JFK International because Kennedy screwed around.
Pretty sure his records and accomplishments are recognized there in Cooperstown. It’s Pete himself who isn’t in or considered a HOFer.
FWIW my opinion is colored by 32 years of high school teaching and coaching, where honoring players or students by the vote of coaches and teachers just seemed...wrong. But of course it's part of the culture.
What Rose couldn't predict was two years AFTER he agreed to the suspension, after Giamatti died - at the prodding of Giamatti friend and new commissioner Fay Vincent, the MLB HOF passed a rule that made anyone on MLB's ineligible list would be banned from appearing on the HOF ballot.
Also, if you read anything or listen to anything from around that time - all Giamatti wanted was remorse and contrition - if Rose had come clean - completely clean even behind closed doors with Giamatti I think they would/could have come to some type of agreement when Rose could be reinstated or Giamatti wouldn't have been so adamant about not being HOF eligible.
But Rose was so arrogant and cocky and continued to lie about it and stall the whole process with legal shenanigans and bad faith and that was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak and no commissioner now wants to be the one to "not have his predecessor's back".
1) Anyone subject to a "permanent" ban is allowed to apply for reinstatement every year. There's literally no more severe punishment he could have received than "permanent ban with the opportunity to ask to be reinstated." That's what a permanent ban is. He agreed to that.
2) Rose immediately broke his agreement by denying the charges. That put MLB and the Commissioner in a very difficult position.
3) Rose eventually admitted that he'd bet on the Reds, showing that he'd been lying to the public for years.
Pete Rose can live his life, sell autographs, do personal appearances, pose for selfies, enjoy whatever money he didn't gamble away, or any of a thousand things an ex-ballplayer can do. But he can't be in the Hall of Fame. If he'd wanted to be honored by baseball, he shouldn't have been betting on baseball games. Maybe harsh, but necessary.
It constantly amazes me how many fans seem oblivious to the danger that gambling represents to their favorite sports. It's a straight razor pressed against the game's jugular. That's why the penalties are so severe. Drug addicts and alcoholics endanger themselves and their careers. Steroids are cheating but don't threaten the game. Gamblers endanger the industry they work in.
And to clarify my position, gambling on your sport and your team is wrong and damaging - heck gambling at all is outlawed in most sports on any sport (including fantasy sports and pools), but it's not as bad as betting against your team - which is a case where you as a player, coach or manager can directly influence the outcome - differently than betting for your team because in that case you're trying to win already. Of course point spreads can come in to play in some sports - but that's not the case here with Rose.
Unless your someone who thinks that the times you don't bet for your team is some signal to book makers that you are betting against your team (the weak argument I've heard about Rose).
that's the only possible think way I've "defended" Rose and it's not even a defense it was merely refuting a comment from one poster.
Rose deserves what he got I don't care if he never gets in the HOF in life or death. If I had a vote, I'd vote him in to the HOF but that's only because I think he earned it based on his on-field performance and IMO that's what the HOF is or should be about.
Nobody seemed to forget Shoeless Joe Jackson, and he's been dead for 70 years...