Fassel's passing-still shocking to me @ least-got me thinking about his time here & especially about the '02 Giants, who one could argue-and I would-was probably the most talented Giants team of Fassel's tenure.
For argument's sake, let's say Shockey catches that TD in SF & we go up 42-14. We end up winning the game fairly easily & then we're onto Tampa. Do the Giants win that Bucs game? And if so, how far do you think they go that year?
Curious to hear people's takes.
I do think getting to the divisional round would have bought Fassel more time. I also believe the 2003 Giants don’t go 4-12 without the hangover of the 39-38 collapse in SF. Could have changed the entire history of the franchise. Something as simple as a Shockey drop at 35-14.
I am still pissed about that Rams game. We should have won that. And the Eagles loss was a MNF game right? I believe we were up 9-0 & lost in the closing minutes.
BB56, wasn't it like the first time ever ANY team lost back to back games by 1 point? Or am I getting old?
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do you realize those two back to back BS losses, was the first time in our history that we lost two 1 point games in a row?
BB56, wasn't it like the first time ever ANY team lost back to back games by 1 point? Or am I getting old?
I believe it was the Giants. No idea about other teams
The Ravens? 😂
That’s what they said in ‘08 and ‘12..Nothing’s a lock.
The Bucs would have won convincingly. They picked off Jeff Garcia 3 times. They dominated the Eagles at the Vet. They embarrassed the Raiders.
The only reason Kerry Collins isn't doesn't share the record for INT's in a Super Bowl is because the Bucs picked off Rich Gannon 5 times. People think Collins would have gone into Tampa and won? Come on.
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and cruised thru the post-season. Closest game was 17 points in Philly. We would not have beaten them in their building
The Bucs would have won convincingly. They picked off Jeff Garcia 3 times. They dominated the Eagles at the Vet. They embarrassed the Raiders.
The only reason Kerry Collins isn't doesn't share the record for INT's in a Super Bowl is because the Bucs picked off Rich Gannon 5 times. People think Collins would have gone into Tampa and won? Come on.
Come on nothing! In 2007 (2008 playoffs) we went into Dallas and beat the 13-3 Cowboys. Then into -23 degrees GB against the 14-3 Packers, then the 18-0 Pats.
in 2011 (2012 playoffs), the 9-7 (10-7 after we whipped Atlanta at home) Giants went into 15-1 Packers and toyed with them. Then of course the Pats again in SB XLVI..
So stop with this “no way” type crap…
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In comment 15283445 bluepepper said:
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and cruised thru the post-season. Closest game was 17 points in Philly. We would not have beaten them in their building
The Bucs would have won convincingly. They picked off Jeff Garcia 3 times. They dominated the Eagles at the Vet. They embarrassed the Raiders.
The only reason Kerry Collins isn't doesn't share the record for INT's in a Super Bowl is because the Bucs picked off Rich Gannon 5 times. People think Collins would have gone into Tampa and won? Come on.
Come on nothing! In 2007 (2008 playoffs) we went into Dallas and beat the 13-3 Cowboys. Then into -23 degrees GB against the 14-3 Packers, then the 18-0 Pats.
in 2011 (2012 playoffs), the 9-7 (10-7 after we whipped Atlanta at home) Giants went into 15-1 Packers and toyed with them. Then of course the Pats again in SB XLVI..
So stop with this “no way” type crap…
Eli was a smarter QB than Collins especially under pressure. As much as I respect what Kerry did with us during his time here, no way would he have been able to do what Manning did during the '07 & '11 playoff runs. Especially the beating he took during the 2012 49ers NFC Championship game. Kerry turned into jello like Simon from Airplane II under a pass rush
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In comment 15283475 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15283445 bluepepper said:
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and cruised thru the post-season. Closest game was 17 points in Philly. We would not have beaten them in their building
The Bucs would have won convincingly. They picked off Jeff Garcia 3 times. They dominated the Eagles at the Vet. They embarrassed the Raiders.
The only reason Kerry Collins isn't doesn't share the record for INT's in a Super Bowl is because the Bucs picked off Rich Gannon 5 times. People think Collins would have gone into Tampa and won? Come on.
Come on nothing! In 2007 (2008 playoffs) we went into Dallas and beat the 13-3 Cowboys. Then into -23 degrees GB against the 14-3 Packers, then the 18-0 Pats.
in 2011 (2012 playoffs), the 9-7 (10-7 after we whipped Atlanta at home) Giants went into 15-1 Packers and toyed with them. Then of course the Pats again in SB XLVI..
So stop with this “no way” type crap…
Eli was a smarter QB than Collins especially under pressure. As much as I respect what Kerry did with us during his time here, no way would he have been able to do what Manning did during the '07 & '11 playoff runs. Especially the beating he took during the 2012 49ers NFC Championship game. Kerry turned into jello like Simon from Airplane II under a pass rush
No question. My major point is, there’s no such thing as no way. That’s been proven to be the case in more situations than I can count..Were the Vikes favored over us in the 41-0 rout game? Granted many felt we had a chance, but there are no real locks anymore, imv
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In comment 15283479 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 15283475 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15283445 bluepepper said:
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and cruised thru the post-season. Closest game was 17 points in Philly. We would not have beaten them in their building
The Bucs would have won convincingly. They picked off Jeff Garcia 3 times. They dominated the Eagles at the Vet. They embarrassed the Raiders.
The only reason Kerry Collins isn't doesn't share the record for INT's in a Super Bowl is because the Bucs picked off Rich Gannon 5 times. People think Collins would have gone into Tampa and won? Come on.
Come on nothing! In 2007 (2008 playoffs) we went into Dallas and beat the 13-3 Cowboys. Then into -23 degrees GB against the 14-3 Packers, then the 18-0 Pats.
in 2011 (2012 playoffs), the 9-7 (10-7 after we whipped Atlanta at home) Giants went into 15-1 Packers and toyed with them. Then of course the Pats again in SB XLVI..
So stop with this “no way” type crap…
Eli was a smarter QB than Collins especially under pressure. As much as I respect what Kerry did with us during his time here, no way would he have been able to do what Manning did during the '07 & '11 playoff runs. Especially the beating he took during the 2012 49ers NFC Championship game. Kerry turned into jello like Simon from Airplane II under a pass rush
No question. My major point is, there’s no such thing as no way. That’s been proven to be the case in more situations than I can count..Were the Vikes favored over us in the 41-0 rout game? Granted many felt we had a chance, but there are no real locks anymore, imv
This is true. I've never once thought "Oh man, we've got no chance" whenever the Giants made the playoffs.
Buuuut...Looking back in hindsight knowing what we do about the level of talent on the various Giant teams during different eras I'd say it's fairly accurate what some have said. For example, the '97 Giants vs the Packers if they got past Minny. Our only hope would've been the defense. No way Danny Kannell was going to out-duel young in his prime Brett Favre.
The 2002 team going to Tampa would've been interesting. I'm not convinced we lose that one if the offense was able to keep rolling like they were.
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In comment 15283485 jnoble said:
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In comment 15283479 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 15283475 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15283445 bluepepper said:
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and cruised thru the post-season. Closest game was 17 points in Philly. We would not have beaten them in their building
The Bucs would have won convincingly. They picked off Jeff Garcia 3 times. They dominated the Eagles at the Vet. They embarrassed the Raiders.
The only reason Kerry Collins isn't doesn't share the record for INT's in a Super Bowl is because the Bucs picked off Rich Gannon 5 times. People think Collins would have gone into Tampa and won? Come on.
Come on nothing! In 2007 (2008 playoffs) we went into Dallas and beat the 13-3 Cowboys. Then into -23 degrees GB against the 14-3 Packers, then the 18-0 Pats.
in 2011 (2012 playoffs), the 9-7 (10-7 after we whipped Atlanta at home) Giants went into 15-1 Packers and toyed with them. Then of course the Pats again in SB XLVI..
So stop with this “no way” type crap…
Eli was a smarter QB than Collins especially under pressure. As much as I respect what Kerry did with us during his time here, no way would he have been able to do what Manning did during the '07 & '11 playoff runs. Especially the beating he took during the 2012 49ers NFC Championship game. Kerry turned into jello like Simon from Airplane II under a pass rush
No question. My major point is, there’s no such thing as no way. That’s been proven to be the case in more situations than I can count..Were the Vikes favored over us in the 41-0 rout game? Granted many felt we had a chance, but there are no real locks anymore, imv
This is true. I've never once thought "Oh man, we've got no chance" whenever the Giants made the playoffs.
Buuuut...Looking back in hindsight knowing what we do about the level of talent on the various Giant teams during different eras I'd say it's fairly accurate what some have said. For example, the '97 Giants vs the Packers if they got past Minny. Our only hope would've been the defense. No way Danny Kannell was going to out-duel young in his prime Brett Favre.
The 2002 team going to Tampa would've been interesting. I'm not convinced we lose that one if the offense was able to keep rolling like they were.
Say if we beat the Bucs, would we have been able to beat the Raiders in the Super Bowl?
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In comment 15283493 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 15283485 jnoble said:
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In comment 15283479 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 15283475 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15283445 bluepepper said:
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and cruised thru the post-season. Closest game was 17 points in Philly. We would not have beaten them in their building
The Bucs would have won convincingly. They picked off Jeff Garcia 3 times. They dominated the Eagles at the Vet. They embarrassed the Raiders.
The only reason Kerry Collins isn't doesn't share the record for INT's in a Super Bowl is because the Bucs picked off Rich Gannon 5 times. People think Collins would have gone into Tampa and won? Come on.
Come on nothing! In 2007 (2008 playoffs) we went into Dallas and beat the 13-3 Cowboys. Then into -23 degrees GB against the 14-3 Packers, then the 18-0 Pats.
in 2011 (2012 playoffs), the 9-7 (10-7 after we whipped Atlanta at home) Giants went into 15-1 Packers and toyed with them. Then of course the Pats again in SB XLVI..
So stop with this “no way” type crap…
Eli was a smarter QB than Collins especially under pressure. As much as I respect what Kerry did with us during his time here, no way would he have been able to do what Manning did during the '07 & '11 playoff runs. Especially the beating he took during the 2012 49ers NFC Championship game. Kerry turned into jello like Simon from Airplane II under a pass rush
No question. My major point is, there’s no such thing as no way. That’s been proven to be the case in more situations than I can count..Were the Vikes favored over us in the 41-0 rout game? Granted many felt we had a chance, but there are no real locks anymore, imv
This is true. I've never once thought "Oh man, we've got no chance" whenever the Giants made the playoffs.
Buuuut...Looking back in hindsight knowing what we do about the level of talent on the various Giant teams during different eras I'd say it's fairly accurate what some have said. For example, the '97 Giants vs the Packers if they got past Minny. Our only hope would've been the defense. No way Danny Kannell was going to out-duel young in his prime Brett Favre.
The 2002 team going to Tampa would've been interesting. I'm not convinced we lose that one if the offense was able to keep rolling like they were.
Say if we beat the Bucs, would we have been able to beat the Raiders in the Super Bowl?
I can't say for sure but we would've had a better chance against them than that damned Ravens team
That took a long time to get over,,SF
We couldn't get off the field 4th qtr. if memory serves..
Jeff Garcia?!
Giants had no business losing that but I don't feel they would have won the SB that year,,(that's what we tell ourselves)
.
Who knows. Fassel was a decent coach for us. RIP
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In comment 15283445 bluepepper said:
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and cruised thru the post-season. Closest game was 17 points in Philly. We would not have beaten them in their building
The Bucs would have won convincingly. They picked off Jeff Garcia 3 times. They dominated the Eagles at the Vet. They embarrassed the Raiders.
The only reason Kerry Collins isn't doesn't share the record for INT's in a Super Bowl is because the Bucs picked off Rich Gannon 5 times. People think Collins would have gone into Tampa and won? Come on.
Come on nothing! In 2007 (2008 playoffs) we went into Dallas and beat the 13-3 Cowboys. Then into -23 degrees GB against the 14-3 Packers, then the 18-0 Pats.
in 2011 (2012 playoffs), the 9-7 (10-7 after we whipped Atlanta at home) Giants went into 15-1 Packers and toyed with them. Then of course the Pats again in SB XLVI..
So stop with this “no way” type crap…
The question asked for opinions on how far the Giants would have gone if they hadn't completely imploded in San Francisco.
My opinion is that they would have lost convincingly in Tampa to a superior team. I don't know why that's unacceptable to you.
The Raiders had a really good offense. Enormous OL and they could run the ball. Gannon was very well protected. Losing the Center prior to the SB and then the Gruden factor (whether it was true or not about not changing the verbage) and the consequent blowout cast a shad over what was a very good team. If the Giants had played them that would have been a very tough game to win.
In 2002 was pre-upset era, there were very few big upsets and defenses were still allowed to do their thing.
In 2002 was pre-upset era, there were very few big upsets and defenses were still allowed to do their thing.
That's exactly how I felt. Very rarely in that timeframe were top defenses losing in the playoffs, especially at home. You never know what might have happened in terms of the Bucs doing something sloppy on offense, but the Giants likely had little chance.
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but, that team had back to back one point losses (15-14 @ STL) and (10-9 vs PHI). A team which could easily have been 5-1 after those games became 3-3, and then they never really could recover. Add in 9/11 & coming off a super bowl loss, it was too much to overcome. I believe the 2001 Giants could have made some noise as well.
I am still pissed about that Rams game. We should have won that. And the Eagles loss was a MNF game right? I believe we were up 9-0 & lost in the closing minutes.
Ugh yeah that Eagles game was awful. I still remember that Monday night game because I felt like we had it in the bag, and we fell apart at the end for the loss. It's burned into my brain because my daughter was 1.5 years old at the time sleeping on my chest during the game and I had to control my rage after we fell apart in the 4th quarter. I liked Fassel but it seemed like a recurring theme for him with the inconsistency and meltdowns, especially 2 of the worst Giants losses in my Memory ('97 playoff vs Vikings and '02 playoff vs SF). I was definitely not sad to see him go. But still I respected what he did for the Giants after the disaster that was Dan Reeves.
2002 wasn't any kind of "lost ring" season.
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In comment 15283419 Sean said:
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but, that team had back to back one point losses (15-14 @ STL) and (10-9 vs PHI). A team which could easily have been 5-1 after those games became 3-3, and then they never really could recover. Add in 9/11 & coming off a super bowl loss, it was too much to overcome. I believe the 2001 Giants could have made some noise as well.
I am still pissed about that Rams game. We should have won that. And the Eagles loss was a MNF game right? I believe we were up 9-0 & lost in the closing minutes.
Ugh yeah that Eagles game was awful. I still remember that Monday night game because I felt like we had it in the bag, and we fell apart at the end for the loss. It's burned into my brain because my daughter was 1.5 years old at the time sleeping on my chest during the game and I had to control my rage after we fell apart in the 4th quarter. I liked Fassel but it seemed like a recurring theme for him with the inconsistency and meltdowns, especially 2 of the worst Giants losses in my Memory ('97 playoff vs Vikings and '02 playoff vs SF). I was definitely not sad to see him go. But still I respected what he did for the Giants after the disaster that was Dan Reeves.
I was furious after that Rams game. The officials made at least 3 BS calls against us that really hurt us. The Eagles game was on the offense. Had numerous chances to extend the lead and kept letting the Eagles hang around, you could see that coming.
I remember that second Eagles game in Philly where Giants took the lead with less than 3 minutes left and blew it. That was the game where they almost pulled off a miracle at the end with a flip to Ron Dixon and he was just caught from behind at the 4 yard line.
Yes, and a pathetically weak PI call on Garnes that handed the Rams the go-ahead TD
That was an awful loss. Fortunately for the Yankee fans on this site, I believe the Jeter flip game was later that night.
I think they matched up well with TB. Shockey was a matchup problem for their Cover 2, and offensively, they were mediocre. And Fassel had Philly's number if we met them in the NFCCG. Another SB appearance would have changed the course of the franchise. No TC, no Eli. So in the end, I think things worked out better for NYG.
They found a nice little groove near the end of the season against teams coached by the likes of Steve Spurrier and Dave Campo, and people point to the Niners playoff game as evidence they were peaking, but these are the same guys who scored 10 points the week before vs Philly. Anything is possible, but I think the pendulum would have swung the other way against the Bucs. And with Johnnie ("Whoops, we prepared for the wrong opponent") Lynn as defensive coordinator, that team's overall ceiling was always limited.
Maybe the 2000 edition wasn't as explosive, but they were way steadier, with a better D. I refuse to even reminisce about 2001. What a terrible year in general, and frustrating season that was.
Sort of a trend with TC teams. A bit of negative inertia could submarine a season, despite how great a tactician TC was.
And we saw it a few times. It wasn't a fluke.
I've played and watched enough football over nearly 45 years to know this is more often the case than not with football teams. It is the ultimate team sport with literally hundreds of moving parts, techniques, instincts, and reactions per player per play. So much can and will go wrong. When you watch a really good football team perform, it's obvious and enjoyable.
That took a long time to get over,,SF
We couldn't get off the field 4th qtr. if memory serves..
Jeff Garcia?!
Giants had no business losing that but I don't feel they would have won the SB that year,,(that's what we tell ourselves)
.
Who knows. Fassel was a decent coach for us. RIP
Garcia was a thorn in our side for sure. He also sent us home in 2006 in that 23-20 loss to Philly
No way the Giants lose that game. NO way.
Then SF gets blown out by Tampa anyway. I don't know if the Giants beat Tampa Bay but it would have been a lot better than what Tampa Bay did to San Francisco.
And the only reason they scored that low 10 versus Philly was they turned the ball over 4 times. In that game they had nearly 250 yards passing and over 200 yards rushing.
But nevertheless, I don't think they get past Tampa if they had beaten San Fran.
My point is, with how well the ball was moving against Philly in week 17 in 2002, it was a seductive power that made me want to see them again on the road, for the Vet's final game. How great would have that been if it were the Giants that closed that place down instead of Tampa Bay? We need all the bragging rights we could get against those useless boobs.
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of that Rams game. Hated that guy.
That was an awful loss. Fortunately for the Yankee fans on this site, I believe the Jeter flip game was later that night.
I thought the Jeter flip game was after we won in Atlanta. I was in Atlanta when I saw that Yankees game and would likely only have been there for the Giants. I was in San Antonio for the Rams game.
And the only reason they scored that low 10 versus Philly was they turned the ball over 4 times. In that game they had nearly 250 yards passing and over 200 yards rushing.
But nevertheless, I don't think they get past Tampa if they had beaten San Fran.
They also had 2 touchdowns taken away on some shoddy penalties as well.
There is no way we were going to beat the Buccaneers if we had hung on against San Fran. Sbockey and Tiki were great that year but outside of Toomer we had no other receiver that was a threat or even NFL caliber. Hilliard was on IR because of that dirty ass hit by Dawkins that tore Hilliard’s labrum. I can’t remember the name of the receiver that we were starting opposite Toomer in that San Fran game but he was a rookie and he was completely over-matched.
Even worse than that was the state of our defensive line and linebackers by that point in the season. We were starting street free agents alongside Strahan and Armstead. Our STs were also a mess.