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NFT: Harvey lit up. Mets up 7-1 in the third. Mets at Orioles

ZGiants98 : 6/9/2021 8:05 pm
Mets Lineup

Jonathan Villar – 3B
Francisco Lindor – SS
Pete Alonso – 1B
Dominic Smith – DH
James McCann – C
Billy McKinney – RF
Kevin Pillar – LF
Mason Williams – CF
Jose Peraza – 2B

Orioles Lineup

Cedric Mullins – CF
Trey Mancini – 1B
Anthony Santander – RF
Freddy Galvis – SS
Ryan Mountcastle – DH
DJ Stewart – LF
Maikel Franco – 3B
Stevie Wilkerson – 2B
Austin Wynns – C

LFGM!
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Ron Darling  
KDavies : 6/9/2021 9:44 pm : link
RA Dickey Cy Young year
Wow  
ZGiants98 : 6/9/2021 9:55 pm : link
Ryan M. Spaeder
@theaceofspaeder
·
2m
Kevin Pillar and Billy McKinney are just the second pair of #Mets outfielders each with multiple homers during the same game – they join Darryl Strawberry and Kevin McReynolds, who did so on Aprill 4, 1988.
Remember  
sshin05 : 6/9/2021 10:04 pm : link
Mason Williams hit a homerun too. So the whole OF got homers in this game.
1990 Frank Viola  
allstarjim : 6/9/2021 10:40 pm : link
3rd in Cy Young voting, was a 20 game winner with a 2.67 ERA. 20-12 and was an All-Star both full seasons with the Mets.

Also, people always forget El Sid, who was so good on the Mets for so long. He was just consistently very good, he was such a key part of that rotation from 1985-1993.
Well,  
ZGiants98 : 6/9/2021 10:43 pm : link
Mets picked the right time to have the bats start perking up. The next 4.5 weeks are going to be insane. Enjoy the rest day tomorrow fellas. All hell is about to break loose after.

32 games in 30 days coming up.
RE: Well,  
spike : 6/9/2021 10:48 pm : link
In comment 15283585 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Mets picked the right time to have the bats start perking up. The next 4.5 weeks are going to be insane. Enjoy the rest day tomorrow fellas. All hell is about to break loose after.

32 games in 30 days coming up.


It's going to make or break the season, with many games against the NL East
RE: Ron Darling  
allstarjim : 6/9/2021 10:54 pm : link
In comment 15283533 KDavies said:
Quote:
RA Dickey Cy Young year


So good of a call. I saw R.A. daxxle the Rays at the Trop in St. Pete in 2012. He threw a 1 hitter and struck out 12. And the only hit he allowed was a little dribbler to 3rd that David Wright unsuccessfully tried to barehand, and I have always thought that Wright could've gloved it and thrown Upton out.

Part of me never forgave Wright for that, because I could've been in attendance for what would've been the second Mets' no-hitter in their history AND the 2nd for them in avout 2 weeks if Wright makes that play, a play he's made many times before.

I also saw deGrom shut out the Padres in Petco in 2018 for 7 and a third, allowing just 5 hits, no runs, 8 Ks in a 5-1 victory.

Now, let me tell you, I've only been to maybe 4 professional Mets regular season games, and half of them were guys throwing absolute gems in their Cy Young seasons. Pretty cool, right?
How about this for a topic  
allstarjim : 6/9/2021 11:03 pm : link
Mets you thought were going to be absolute stars but completely fizzled. I thought Jordany Valdespin was going to be tremendous.

Another: Lastings Milledge.
RE: How about this for a topic  
pjcas18 : 6/9/2021 11:07 pm : link
In comment 15283595 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Mets you thought were going to be absolute stars but completely fizzled. I thought Jordany Valdespin was going to be tremendous.

Another: Lastings Milledge.


Fernando Martinez
Alex Escobar
Jay Payton (who wasn't bad)
Prentice Redman
Jason Tyner
Alex Ochoa
Mike Pelfrey
Phil Humber
Generation K (Izzy was good)

so many failed prospects who I thought were going to be elite
Ike Davis  
allstarjim : 6/10/2021 1:54 am : link
Was another I thought would take off. Great power but could never put it all together.

I think thought Davis was going to hit 4 or 5 hundred Mets homers, just didn't happen.
Mike Jacobs.  
Beezer : 6/10/2021 6:32 am : link
Highly touted coming up.
Brian Cole  
Mike in NY : 6/10/2021 6:43 am : link
R.I.P.
Nolan Ryan...  
BamaBlue : 6/10/2021 6:48 am : link
has to be on that list. Even though a relief pitcher, have to included Tug McGraw on the list of great Met's pitchers.
Speaking of Met's busts....  
BamaBlue : 6/10/2021 6:57 am : link
here's an update on one. Remember Shortstop, Gavin Cecchini? He was a first round pick (#12 overall) in the 2012 draft. He got called up a couple of times and made 89 plate appearances for the Mets in 2016 and 2017. He's now playing for my hometown minor league team (Rocket City Trash Panda's). He's not doing bad, but I think his MLB days are behind him. The Trash Panda's are the AA affiliate for the Angels and this is their first year in the Southern League of MiLB. BTW... Jay Bell (former Met) is the coach of this team.
RE: Brian Cole  
KDavies : 6/10/2021 7:02 am : link
In comment 15283636 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
R.I.P.


That’s a little different than fizzled. Cole would have been an All-Star if he didn’t die. He was unreal. Age 21 season between high-A and AA. 137 games, 104 runs, 35 doubles, 7 triples, 19 HR, 86 RBI, 69 steals, .301 BA. Great article on him that I read about once a year.


Link - ( New Window )
first ones that pop to mind  
KDavies : 6/10/2021 7:05 am : link
are Gen K, as mentioned. Pulsipher, Isringhausen, and Wilson. A quick lesson on the fragility of pitching prospects.

And Butch Huskey
RE: too bad the Mets cut Lindsay  
Section331 : 6/10/2021 9:05 am : link
In comment 15283453 KDavies said:
Quote:
I would trade him for Harvey


I wouldn't trade a bag of balls for Harvey. I feel bad for the guy, but Harvey is done. 31 ER's over the last 19 IP, how long before he is DFA'd?
RE: if it's peak then Doc's  
Section331 : 6/10/2021 9:08 am : link
In comment 15283500 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
1985 is the best pitcher season I've seen, only one that I'd consider might be better is Pedro's 1999.

deGrom's 2021 could give both a run for their money but Doc pitched 276 innings which is a 70's throwback #. deGrom will never pitch that much.

deGrom's 2018, and Seavers 1971 are IMO just below Doc's 1985.

If it's career I'd probably say deGrom is already past Doc and close to Seaver. it's a matter of time if deGrom stays healthy.


I agree. 1985 Doc ranks up there with '68 Gibson and '99 Pedro. He was unhittable. Imagine if he didn't have to pitch in day games!
RE: RE: if it's peak then Doc's  
moze1021 : 6/10/2021 9:31 am : link
In comment 15283688 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15283500 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


1985 is the best pitcher season I've seen, only one that I'd consider might be better is Pedro's 1999.

deGrom's 2021 could give both a run for their money but Doc pitched 276 innings which is a 70's throwback #. deGrom will never pitch that much.

deGrom's 2018, and Seavers 1971 are IMO just below Doc's 1985.

If it's career I'd probably say deGrom is already past Doc and close to Seaver. it's a matter of time if deGrom stays healthy.




I agree. 1985 Doc ranks up there with '68 Gibson and '99 Pedro. He was unhittable. Imagine if he didn't have to pitch in day games!


Yeah by every advanced metric out there, Doc's 85 season was the best in Mets history.

Johan's 2008 and Pedro's 2005 even make the Mets top 10 pitching WAR season list.

1. Dwight Gooden • 1985 12.2
2. Tom Seaver • 1973 10.6
3. Tom Seaver • 1971 10.2
4. Jacob deGrom • 2018 9.9
5. Jon Matlack • 1974 9.1
6. Jacob deGrom • 2019 8.0
7. Tom Seaver • 1975 7.8
8. Tom Seaver • 1969 7.2
9. Johan Santana • 2008 7.1
10. Pedro Martinez • 2005 7.0
RE: first ones that pop to mind  
moze1021 : 6/10/2021 9:32 am : link
In comment 15283646 KDavies said:
Quote:
are Gen K, as mentioned. Pulsipher, Isringhausen, and Wilson. A quick lesson on the fragility of pitching prospects.

And Butch Huskey


The difference with Generation K is they never ACTUALLY delivered on the hype in the big leagues..

Harvey was THE man and had the persona to be the biggest star in NY.

Truly remarkable fall from dominance.
The media painted F-Mart as a Young Ted Williams at 18  
csb : 6/10/2021 9:37 am : link
Complete bust. I'd say Paul Wilson & Jay Payton were the next two
RE: How about this for a topic  
10thAve : 6/10/2021 9:46 am : link
In comment 15283595 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Mets you thought were going to be absolute stars but completely fizzled. I thought Jordany Valdespin was going to be tremendous.

Another: Lastings Milledge.

Gregg Jefferies is at the top of this list for me. He ended up having a somewhat decent career, just not with the Mets. But I thought he was going to be a star.

Already mentioned, but I thought Phil Humber was going to be a star too. I remember when they drafted him out of Rice watching clips and he looked tremendous.
RE: RE: RE: if it's peak then Doc's  
Shecky : 6/10/2021 10:30 am : link
In comment 15283705 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15283688 Section331 said:



Tom Seaver • 1969 7.2
Tom Seaver • 1971 10.2
Tom Seaver • 1973 10.6
Tom Seaver • 1975 7.8



Appreciate the list!!
But how have I gone this long and never knew that Seaver was actually the first Saberhagen?? That’s incredible!!
I remember  
sshin05 : 6/10/2021 10:30 am : link
Jason Tyner being more of a speedster with a questionable bat and absolutely zero or close to zero power. I never thought of him highly even though he was a first rounder.
I was convinced that Victor Diaz  
jpkmets : 6/10/2021 10:38 am : link
was the next Manny Ramirez.
Alex Escobar  
moze1021 : 6/10/2021 12:37 pm : link
Was supposed to be the franchise at one point.
RE: Ike Davis  
pjcas18 : 6/10/2021 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15283620 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Was another I thought would take off. Great power but could never put it all together.

I think thought Davis was going to hit 4 or 5 hundred Mets homers, just didn't happen.


valley fever. not sure if that's what ended his career or if it would have fizzled out anyway, but that was the beginning of the end.

there was a player on the Diamondbacks who got it too and I think he was a decent player whose career was ended because of it.
Generation K was derailed by injuries  
Vanzetti : 6/10/2021 12:46 pm : link
Paul Wilson was ranked as the number one prospect in baseball right before he came up. Blew out his shoulder in his first season just as he was starting to pitch well

Pulsipher never fully recovered from elbow

Izzy’s elbow prevented him from starting but he became a top reliever

It’s somewhat similar to what happened to the Braves when Medlen, Minor etc all went down

I always feel a little sad about Generation K. Especially Pulsipher
RE: RE: Ike Davis  
allstarjim : 6/10/2021 1:36 pm : link
In comment 15283880 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15283620 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Was another I thought would take off. Great power but could never put it all together.

I think thought Davis was going to hit 4 or 5 hundred Mets homers, just didn't happen.



valley fever. not sure if that's what ended his career or if it would have fizzled out anyway, but that was the beginning of the end.

there was a player on the Diamondbacks who got it too and I think he was a decent player whose career was ended because of it.


I'm not so sure. I just think he could never make the jump. I'm trying to remember if it was that he could never hit the off-speed stuff. He got Valley Fever in the offseason before 2012, I think, and he still ended up putting together good power numbers that season...32 HRs, 90 RBI, and he hit a respectable .255 in the 2nd half of that season, but yeah, he just never could hit enough, despite the good power. Really was rooting for him to pan out.
From what I remember about Ike  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/10/2021 1:39 pm : link
he didn't want to listen to coaching and thought he knew it all.
RE: Alex Escobar  
allstarjim : 6/10/2021 1:39 pm : link
In comment 15283878 moze1021 said:
Quote:
Was supposed to be the franchise at one point.


All great mentions. The media really hyped up Diaz, F-Mart, and Alex Escobar to nonsense levels. Imagine if those three became what the media hyped them as. That's the all-hype outfield, right there.
Ike still had traces of Valley Fever  
pjcas18 : 6/10/2021 2:00 pm : link
in 2014, it seemed like Lyme Disease - once it gets in your blood it causes a ton of things.

he always maintained he felt fine, but who knows. Could have just been coincidental.

Conor Jackson was the d-backs player I was thinking of - I think Valley Fever ended his career or contributed in some way.
interesting SNY article  
KDavies : 6/10/2021 3:25 pm : link
hadn't thought about it. Point is that without BVW, good chance that in an alternate reality, deGrom is traded and playing for another team.

Interesting to ponder, and if true, the BVW tenure was worth it IMO. Can't imagine deGrom doing this for another team.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Alex Escobar  
moze1021 : 6/10/2021 8:15 pm : link
In comment 15283935 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15283878 moze1021 said:


Quote:


Was supposed to be the franchise at one point.



All great mentions. The media really hyped up Diaz, F-Mart, and Alex Escobar to nonsense levels. Imagine if those three became what the media hyped them as. That's the all-hype outfield, right there.


F-Mart is interesting.... maybe it was the media, but the Mets REALLY pushed him hard through the system. And at each stop he really struggled to start then dominated by the end... but he never got to higher than 18 on MLB prospect lists..

Milledge made it up to #9... and after we had just had 2 top prospects in Wright and Reyes come in and dominate and start off on Hall of Fame tracks, I think fans fell into a trap of thinking that every guy would do the same.. it was pretty electric when he came up and for about a week it looked like Mets had struck gold again and Wright/Reyes would be joined by a 3rd superstar... and then it was all downhill for the rest of his career.
Mike Pelfrey  
Rory : 6/10/2021 10:05 pm : link
was supposed to become the ace of the staff. He did what he could but just never settled to be more then a #4/5
RE: Mike Pelfrey  
moze1021 : 6/11/2021 8:22 am : link
In comment 15284299 Rory said:
Quote:
was supposed to become the ace of the staff. He did what he could but just never settled to be more then a #4/5


Oh that was so frustrating... I think the Mets screwed him up. Came up in '06 throwing 98 MPH 2seamer/sinkers and only issue was command... then they started working to "improve him"... lost velocity, added pitches, started relying on 4-seamers up in the zone... ugh.. He's a guy who, with todays analytics and some better coaching I think still had the arm talent to be Halladay 2.0.
Braves and Phillies  
jpkmets : 6/11/2021 8:29 am : link
Trading wins, continuing the overall mediocrity of the rest of the East has been a real treat.

Looking forward to the return bout with the Padres and Cubs. Going tomorrow and hoping to find a time work wise to go catch one of the Cubs game.

Sitting with the 7 Line army tomorrow for the first time. Looking forward to it!
Ultimate deep cut prospect fail  
jpkmets : 6/11/2021 8:32 am : link
Was Samuel Jiuz. Early in Omar’s tenure there was a long form feature in New York or the New Yorker and they described him without name, just calling him “The Shortstop.” They described him in crazy overhyped terms. Like a mythical creature.

Ended up in DSL and hit .074 in 2006.

And that was that.
They didn't want to include Milledge in a Manny Ramirez trade  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/11/2021 9:26 am : link
Isn't that right?
RE: They didn't want to include Milledge in a Manny Ramirez trade  
pjcas18 : 6/11/2021 9:53 am : link
In comment 15284479 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Isn't that right?


Yes, true story, but to be fair, not long after that Mets rebuttal, Manny was put on irrevocable waivers - meaning any team could simply claim him Manny *and assume Manny's full salary* (a point often omitted) and the Red Sox couldn't stop it and Manny went unclaimed.

RE: interesting SNY article  
Dr. D : 6/11/2021 10:20 am : link
In comment 15284073 KDavies said:
Quote:
hadn't thought about it. Point is that without BVW, good chance that in an alternate reality, deGrom is traded and playing for another team.

Interesting to ponder, and if true, the BVW tenure was worth it IMO. Can't imagine deGrom doing this for another team. Link - ( New Window )

I remember some BBIers saying we should trade deGrom, IIRC before the 2017 season. I was like - are you crazy? He might turn out to be this generation's Seaver. I was a kid when they traded Tom Terrific and it made me sick.

So glad the trade deGrom folks weren't running things. They're prolly the same ones now saying we should trade Alonzo (who may never be on the same level of greatness of deGrom, but still potentially eventually one of, if not the best homegrown positional Met, if he stays healthy).
RE: Ultimate deep cut prospect fail  
DanMetroMan : 6/11/2021 10:33 am : link
In comment 15284433 jpkmets said:
Quote:
Was Samuel Jiuz. Early in Omar’s tenure there was a long form feature in New York or the New Yorker and they described him without name, just calling him “The Shortstop.” They described him in crazy overhyped terms. Like a mythical creature.

Ended up in DSL and hit .074 in 2006.

And that was that.


Kenny Hernandez as well but the best one ever... Kenji Garcia. The hype was enormous, they compared him to Galarraga

In a statement announcing Garcia's signing, Manager Bobby Valentine said: ''He has all the hitting tools to someday be an outstanding major leaguer. He reminds me of a young Andres Galarraga.''



His career line .058/.226/.108... not making this up. In defense of Bobby V, he pushed hard for the Mets to land Ichiro.
RE: RE: Mike Pelfrey  
DanMetroMan : 6/11/2021 10:35 am : link
In comment 15284421 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15284299 Rory said:


Quote:


was supposed to become the ace of the staff. He did what he could but just never settled to be more then a #4/5



Oh that was so frustrating... I think the Mets screwed him up. Came up in '06 throwing 98 MPH 2seamer/sinkers and only issue was command... then they started working to "improve him"... lost velocity, added pitches, started relying on 4-seamers up in the zone... ugh.. He's a guy who, with todays analytics and some better coaching I think still had the arm talent to be Halladay 2.0.


This. The Mets messed around with Pelfrey and changed what made him successful. Keep in mind this was well before Harvey/DeGrom/Wheeler etc, they didn't have a good track record of developing pitching.
Unless I missed it..  
moze1021 : 6/11/2021 10:49 am : link
One shocking miss on this list is Rafael Montero...

He was the gem, Jake was the afterthought..
Remember  
allstarjim : 6/11/2021 11:59 am : link
The ESPN cover of Kaz Matsui? All that talk about would they move Reyes to 2nd to make toom for Matsui, lol.
RE: Unless I missed it..  
pjcas18 : 6/11/2021 12:12 pm : link
In comment 15284538 moze1021 said:
Quote:
One shocking miss on this list is Rafael Montero...

He was the gem, Jake was the afterthought..


Jake was an afterthought to everyone.

I remember Javy Guerra, Mejia, Akeel Morris, Domingo Tapia, etc.

I was so mad when Akeel Morris was traded to ATL. I think it was in one of the 45 Kelly Johnson trades.
RE: Remember  
moze1021 : 6/11/2021 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15284592 allstarjim said:
Quote:
The ESPN cover of Kaz Matsui? All that talk about would they move Reyes to 2nd to make toom for Matsui, lol.


They DID do that and moved Jose to 2B....then we get 1 look at Kaz Matsui and realize he basically had the arm of the average US High School baseball player..it was a joke!


Also to previous post... Rafael Montero actually made multiple top 100 prospect lists...also think you meant Deolis Guerra

I was also hyped about Akeel Morris..lol

Yes!!  
pjcas18 : 6/11/2021 12:40 pm : link
Deolis Guerra

He's still bumping around the league, but with these IFA's - they get signed so young they're around forever.

Guerra signed with the Mets in 2004 or 2005 - and he's just 32 now. He was in the Johan trade.

Same with players like Wilmer Flores and Cesar Puello - they seem like they grow up with you because they were signed so young.

I thought Puello would be a star.

Coincidentally Puello is back with the Mets in AAA



RE: RE: Remember  
Rory : 6/11/2021 1:20 pm : link
In comment 15284617 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15284592 allstarjim said:


Quote:


The ESPN cover of Kaz Matsui? All that talk about would they move Reyes to 2nd to make toom for Matsui, lol.



They DID do that and moved Jose to 2B....then we get 1 look at Kaz Matsui and realize he basically had the arm of the average US High School baseball player..it was a joke!


Also to previous post... Rafael Montero actually made multiple top 100 prospect lists...also think you meant Deolis Guerra

I was also hyped about Akeel Morris..lol


I was at that game, 19-20 yr old Akeel Morris from single A ball comes up to the big leagues and got absolutely rocked.

Does anyone know that backstory? like I felt awful for the kid
Morris  
pjcas18 : 6/11/2021 1:38 pm : link
was on the 40-man, was old for a-ball (22) and was putting up video game numbers.

"...In 23 appearances for St. Lucie, Morris has a 1.74 ERA with 44 strikeouts and 14 walks in 31 innings of work..."

in hindsight probably a dumb move and not great for the kid's psyche, but I don't think they had many better options at the time.
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