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It's all coaching and defense

adamg : 6/10/2021 7:26 am
Judge and Graham baby. We got this division with them at the helm.

People can post all these PFF ratings about the OL and talk about all the Daniel Jones play dates with his WR. And Saquon coming off injury. But at the end of the day, the upside of this team is on defense via Patrick Graham.

Stacked secondary. LW back. LFG. 11-6 baby. Giant football.
This is def on the Mount Rushmore of threads  
Tuckrule : 6/10/2021 7:33 am : link
.
You have to have a competent offense to go with that defense  
BillT : 6/10/2021 7:51 am : link
Or you end up with last year’s team. We know we have a really competitive defense. But if the offense can’t play well enough to keep them off the field and take advantage of the stops they create it’s not going to be a winning football team.
I feel very encouraged that Garrett admitted his shortcoming  
George from PA : 6/10/2021 8:16 am : link
The first step is believing ones shortfalls.

I read several here making fun of him for admitting it....but I took it as a positive.

The 3 keys

Garrett system

Daniel Jones

OL

Encouraged by all the news....

The defense will be very good...i have no doubt.
better field position = more points  
giants#1 : 6/10/2021 8:17 am : link
Football is complimentary.
Link - ( New Window )
I too think those two coaches and the rest of the coaching staff  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/10/2021 8:20 am : link
takes the Giants to a whole nother level, but the Giants have also been adding talent in very strategic places.

I think they are the right guys to take the talent the Giants have now and make some noise
No offense..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/10/2021 8:24 am : link
but we had a top tier defense last season and without help from the O or a collapse by the OL, we'll be no better in 2021
Recent history is not kind to teams that had just  
Lines of Scrimmage : 6/10/2021 8:52 am : link
dominating defense. You had the Seahawks (who had a great running game) and the Broncos. Perhaps the Giants "Von Miller" emerges but very unlikely.

Talent, balance, depth.....then good coaching can have a bigger impact.
RE: No offense..  
giants#1 : 6/10/2021 9:19 am : link
In comment 15283666 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but we had a top tier defense last season and without help from the O or a collapse by the OL, we'll be no better in 2021


Overall the D was good (around 10th in scoring and yards allowed), but they were more of a 'bend but don't break' defense than an elite D. In terms of scoring % (% of drives that end in pts), they were middle of the pack, which means they held the opposition to a lot of FGs. But they need to get better at flipping the field and getting the offense a short field to work with.

It always takes me a bit to see predicted records with 17 games  
KDavies : 6/10/2021 9:20 am : link
such as 11-6. Going to take me a while to get used to that.
While the upside of this team may be Defense via Patrick Graham  
NYGgolfer : 6/10/2021 9:21 am : link
somebody on the team better figure out how to score more points in 2021 otherwise that 11-6 prediction will be flipped.
What I don't like about Garrett and why I like Judge  
robbieballs2003 : 6/10/2021 9:21 am : link
Is Garrett focuses on results. You can't just say we need more big plays. Judges is all about the process. Focus on the fundamentals, focuse on your responsibility, focus on things you can control and the rest will work itself out.
RE: What I don't like about Garrett and why I like Judge  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/10/2021 9:27 am : link
In comment 15283697 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Is Garrett focuses on results. You can't just say we need more big plays. Judges is all about the process. Focus on the fundamentals, focuse on your responsibility, focus on things you can control and the rest will work itself out.


I don't know if that's true. If we believe what has been said, the offense was pared down to cut back on turnovers and to scheme around losing Barkley. While the results didn't pan out, that's not just about results, it is a process change. If it were just about results, Garrett would've opened up the offense.

Also, in trying to protect the ball more, that is with an eye on fundamentals and focusing on what they can control and working on responsibilities. And I'm sure Garrett didn't make those adjustments without Judge's buy-in.
The depth on this team is the best it been in years  
rasbutant : 6/10/2021 9:32 am : link
Go through the roster and remove one name at a time and see what it does to the team. The 3 positions I'm most worried about are QB, RB, MLB in that order.

If Jones goes down you have Mike Glennon leading this team...In my opinion...scary.
If Barkley isn't able to go you have Booker...Booker is a decent player and good role player, but as a #1, yikes.
IF Martinez misses time, who replaces him...Ragland? Crowder? Not great, and gets really thin after them, I don't think anyone wants to see Downs out there in a significant role. Actually maybe this should be #2 on the list.

Not saying losing a Star player won't hurt them, but they have guys that can play behind them, or guys in some cases. You don't replace a Leo Williams with one guy.

I'll put a * next to Tackle for now, until I see Solder play, I can't comment on what happens if Thomas goes down.
There is a school of thought...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/10/2021 9:33 am : link
which Nick Saban also (at least publicly) seems to embrace, and that is, defense is taking an ever increasing backseat to offenses that generate points through big plays.

Personally, I've always been wary of this style of football because if the big plays don't come, and your offense is based around them, you're screwed. But that clearly is the trend.

What opposing defenses have done to the Giants in recent years is dare them to matriculate the football down the field. So they concentrated on taking out guys like Beckham when he was here. Their plan (and it inevitably proved correct) was the Giants would self-destruct along the way with a sack, penalty, inability to run to keep the down and distance manageable, etc.

What Gettleman did this offseason was provide the team with a number of big play options to go along with Barkley (who has been hurt the past two years) and the inconsistent Engram. He also addressed red zone issues.
RE: The depth on this team is the best it been in years  
NYGgolfer : 6/10/2021 9:40 am : link
In comment 15283708 rasbutant said:
Quote:
Go through the roster and remove one name at a time and see what it does to the team. The 3 positions I'm most worried about are QB, RB, MLB in that order.



Your worries should be all about the QB and OL. Everything else is a distant 3rd.
How many teams that don't score points go to the playoffs?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/10/2021 9:45 am : link
.
Defense doesn't win games - or championships - all by itself.  
Klaatu : 6/10/2021 9:46 am : link
Teams still have to score points. Garrett talked about being more explosive, and that's fine, but I'd prefer more emphasis on being efficient.
Eric  
Lines of Scrimmage : 6/10/2021 9:48 am : link
Yes Saban has said that but I think some things have factored into his reasoning. He runs a very complex defense and some of his defenses have been hit hard in clusters. He has great freshman but they often times are not ready....yet.

I think in the NFL you have to be good all around. At some point your team strength won't be that and you have to have something else to overcome it. This happens in big games with and especially come playoff time. It's why it is so hard to win championships.

RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/10/2021 9:52 am : link
In comment 15283736 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Yes Saban has said that but I think some things have factored into his reasoning. He runs a very complex defense and some of his defenses have been hit hard in clusters. He has great freshman but they often times are not ready....yet.

I think in the NFL you have to be good all around. At some point your team strength won't be that and you have to have something else to overcome it. This happens in big games with and especially come playoff time. It's why it is so hard to win championships.


That's the thing. If you rely on one thing and someone takes that one thing away from you in a playoff game, it's over.
I think our offense will be sufficient for our defense to carry the  
adamg : 6/10/2021 10:04 am : link
load.
RE: I think our offense will be sufficient for our defense to carry the  
Klaatu : 6/10/2021 11:10 am : link
In comment 15283749 adamg said:
Quote:
load.


Screw that (no offense...and no pun intended).

Joe Judge didn't say the Giants needed to get DJ more weapons so the defense could carry the load. Franchise QB's, "generational" RB's, and high-priced free agent WR's shouldn't need that, either. "Sufficient" isn't nearly enough for the offense, not if the Giants plan on winning more than seven or eight games.
The skill we have on O is being overlooked now  
90.Cal : 6/10/2021 12:28 pm : link
If the coaching staff finds a way to put the pieces together on offense then watch out! Just think about the amount of skill we have on offense, the athleticism at each position is unreal.

QB: Daniel Jones is one of the better running QB's in the NFL today and one of the better deep ball throwers in the NFL today. He is also finally surrounded by talent for the first time and is now in the 2nd year of the same offense for the first time.

RB: Saquon is likely the most athletic RB in the NFL & just one of the most athletic players in the NFL period. If he comes back at 75% he's going to be a pro bowl caliber RB. Then the depth is there, Booker, Clement, Armstead & Brightwell.

TE/FB: Engram is one of the most athletic TEs in the game today. The group behind him is stacked and strong in the run game. Rudolph, Kaden, Toilolo & Penny.

WR: Kenny the jolly giant Golladay is huge for a WR and is a contested catch monster. Shep is Shep and when healthy he's pretty reliable in the slot. Then we got 3 true burners and really great athletes in Darius Slayton, John Ross and Dante Pettis. Then there is Kadarius Toney who is another burner and just an absolute human joystick. That WR group is crazy good IMO, everyone is a legit weapon in some way.

The defense is going to be a top 10 unit no doubt in my mind. The biggest questions are the OL's development and the coaching staffs ability to put it all together on offense.

So if Andrew Thomas is who we drafted him to be, if Gates keeps doing what he's doing, if we get a little luck with Lemieux and/or Peart, I'm not counting on Hernandez to be good but I can't rule it out completely... and if Garrett dials it up/schemes it up nicely then I see us winning 11 games AT MINIMUM!
Fletch disagrees...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/10/2021 12:56 pm : link



90 ,Cal  
Grizz99 : 6/10/2021 1:02 pm : link
About time people started to see (and comment on) the obvious.
This team is loaded...
RE: 90 ,Cal  
Klaatu : 6/10/2021 1:15 pm : link
In comment 15283898 Grizz99 said:
Quote:
About time people started to see (and comment on) the obvious.
This team is loaded...


Loaded with what, bullets or blanks?

The offense will go as far as the offensive line takes it, and right now we have absolutely no idea how it will perform.
RE: Fletch disagrees...  
jpkmets : 6/10/2021 1:21 pm : link
In comment 15283891 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:




hahah! Came in to post this very thing.

Salud!
Give us the Browns OL during the joint practice  
90.Cal : 6/10/2021 1:37 pm : link
And its going to look like the greatest show on turf lol
RE: The skill we have on O is being overlooked now  
TLong : 6/10/2021 4:27 pm : link
In comment 15283872 90.Cal said:
Quote:
If the coaching staff finds a way to put the pieces together on offense then watch out! Just think about the amount of skill we have on offense, the athleticism at each position is unreal.

QB: Daniel Jones is one of the better running QB's in the NFL today and one of the better deep ball throwers in the NFL today. He is also finally surrounded by talent for the first time and is now in the 2nd year of the same offense for the first time.

RB: Saquon is likely the most athletic RB in the NFL & just one of the most athletic players in the NFL period. If he comes back at 75% he's going to be a pro bowl caliber RB. Then the depth is there, Booker, Clement, Armstead & Brightwell.

TE/FB: Engram is one of the most athletic TEs in the game today. The group behind him is stacked and strong in the run game. Rudolph, Kaden, Toilolo & Penny.

WR: Kenny the jolly giant Golladay is huge for a WR and is a contested catch monster. Shep is Shep and when healthy he's pretty reliable in the slot. Then we got 3 true burners and really great athletes in Darius Slayton, John Ross and Dante Pettis. Then there is Kadarius Toney who is another burner and just an absolute human joystick. That WR group is crazy good IMO, everyone is a legit weapon in some way.

The defense is going to be a top 10 unit no doubt in my mind. The biggest questions are the OL's development and the coaching staffs ability to put it all together on offense.

So if Andrew Thomas is who we drafted him to be, if Gates keeps doing what he's doing, if we get a little luck with Lemieux and/or Peart, I'm not counting on Hernandez to be good but I can't rule it out completely... and if Garrett dials it up/schemes it up nicely then I see us winning 11 games AT MINIMUM!


Man! You are a ray of sunshine among all these dark clouds! Go Giants!
We have enough talented young guys to get "coached up" to speed  
SGMen : 6/10/2021 8:50 pm : link
and hopefully excel. We are a top ER and a top OL away from being a clear-cut playoff team, a challenger. Those two positions don't grow on trees but we have a lot of ammunition in next year's draft.

However, I think by the end of this year we will in fact win this division (better coached than Dallas; WFT lacks QB for long haul; Philly rebuilding) and make some noise in the playoffs.

If this defense is Top 8 and this run offense really comes on late with deep balls to Galloday keeping defenses honest, we can make some noise this year and perhaps surprise?
RE: No offense..  
DannyDimes : 6/10/2021 11:27 pm : link
In comment 15283666 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but we had a top tier defense last season and without help from the O or a collapse by the OL, we'll be no better in 2021


Getting Barkley back, adding Toney, adding Golladay, adding another talented TE and RZ target... and "we'll be no better in 2021"?? Really, that's what you think?
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