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Giants eligible for Hard Knocks

trueblueinpw : 6/11/2021 7:55 am
According to this article (and I have no idea is this if a credible source), the Giants are eligible to be on HBO’s Hard Knocks.

Quote:
There are specific criteria to meet in order for a team to be featured on “Hard Knocks.” Per The Swing of Things, the criteria are that no teams who were in the playoffs in the last two seasons, no teams with a first-year head coach, no teams which have been featured on “Hard Knocks” in the last 10 years will be eligible for “Hard Knocks.” The five teams meeting that criteria in 2021 are the New York Giants, the Denver Broncos, the Dallas Cowboys, the Carolina Panthers, and the Arizona Cardinals.


I think this would be really great. I’d love to see DJ and the Judge and everyone else.
Giants Perfect Team for Hard Knocks - ( New Window )
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Stupid idea.  
section125 : 6/11/2021 8:34 am : link
Not really interested in guys performing for the TV and probably neither is Judge.
RE: I think..  
UConn4523 : 6/11/2021 8:36 am : link
In comment 15284432 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Judge probably knows the difference between controlled soundbites and the videos he did last year to uncontrolled editing of full access.

Unless Mara has had a drastic change of heart, the Giants will not be on Hard Knocks in the foreseeable future. I believe they gave the NFL some access to their draft day stuff that will help appease any requests for Hard Knocks.

They still have a behind the scenes deal with the league regarding Hard Knocks.


Agreed, don’t see Judge wanting this around the team.
RE: I think..  
Big Al : 6/11/2021 8:49 am : link
In comment 15284432 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Judge probably knows the difference between controlled soundbites and the videos he did last year to uncontrolled editing of full access.

Unless Mara has had a drastic change of heart, the Giants will not be on Hard Knocks in the foreseeable future. I believe they gave the NFL some access to their draft day stuff that will help appease any requests for Hard Knocks.

They still have a behind the scenes deal with the league regarding Hard Knocks.
Shocking that the honest open NFL would have secret deals.
Hard Knocks is a strange show  
ThreePoints : 6/11/2021 8:54 am : link
in the fact they entirely ignore some positions for the entire show. I remember the Browns season focused heavily on the QB, WR, OL and LB positions. I don't think they ever even mentioned the defensive backs - corners or safeties. It's like those positions didn't exist on a football team.

For example, if the Giants were on this year, they might focus on the QB, RB, WR and CB position. We might hear very little about the tight ends, linebackers and OL - all positions I imagine diehards would want to know about.

I imagine it's an access and resource issue (HBO only has so much staff and so many cameras). But it's something I've noticed in the past.
I know I'm in the minority  
Danny Kanell : 6/11/2021 8:58 am : link
But I would LOVE it if they were chosen for the show.
RE: Hard Knocks is a strange show  
Jimmy Googs : 6/11/2021 9:00 am : link
In comment 15284449 ThreePoints said:
Quote:
in the fact they entirely ignore some positions for the entire show. I remember the Browns season focused heavily on the QB, WR, OL and LB positions. I don't think they ever even mentioned the defensive backs - corners or safeties. It's like those positions didn't exist on a football team.

For example, if the Giants were on this year, they might focus on the QB, RB, WR and CB position. We might hear very little about the tight ends, linebackers and OL - all positions I imagine diehards would want to know about.

I imagine it's an access and resource issue (HBO only has so much staff and so many cameras). But it's something I've noticed in the past.


They don't want to cover everything because it will limit their storylines that they try to cover and track over the episodes in more depth.
RE: RE: I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/11/2021 9:00 am : link
In comment 15284445 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 15284432 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


Judge probably knows the difference between controlled soundbites and the videos he did last year to uncontrolled editing of full access.

Unless Mara has had a drastic change of heart, the Giants will not be on Hard Knocks in the foreseeable future. I believe they gave the NFL some access to their draft day stuff that will help appease any requests for Hard Knocks.

They still have a behind the scenes deal with the league regarding Hard Knocks.

Shocking that the honest open NFL would have secret deals.


It isn't even that secret. From what I've been told, the steelers, Packers and Bears also have the same agreement.

RE: I know I'm in the minority  
Big Al : 6/11/2021 9:01 am : link
In comment 15284450 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
But I would LOVE it if they were chosen for the show.
The “minority” is sometimes actually the silent majority. I think this may be the case here.
As much as I have been totally against it in the past  
Dinger : 6/11/2021 9:03 am : link
I don't care if ther're on it and actually would welcome it only as a way to jam Mara. I believe JM has the Giants best interest at heart but the longer I'm a fan the longer I feel his passion for his team isn't as fervent as it should be. The more I think about how he came up with the PSL and prices at the stadium have continued to go up even during these oh so crappy years, the more I don't care. The more I think about the last 7 years and how awful they have been as a fan, I don't care if Mara doesn't get his way. Hard Knocks is adversity. Lets see how our team does through adversity. I like Judge and think he's going to be a good HC, but if you can't handle the cameras then you don't belong in New York. They all get paid a lot of money and this is simply entertainment so let them entertain me if they aren't going to win.
RE: I'm always astounded by the amount of people in these threads  
Big Blue '56 : 6/11/2021 9:04 am : link
In comment 15284430 Stu11 said:
Quote:
That don't want us to do it. I'm not a religious watcher of the series. I've watched some over the years. I think it would be so much fun seeing the inner workings of the organization and coaches preparing and get to know the players on a more personal level. To me that adds to the fan experience. I loved it when they had one for the Devils training camp a few years back on the NHL network. I was riveted. I may be mistaken but there's seems to be no consistent track record that it affects the team's performance that year positively or negatively. What's the downside for us fans? You honestly think Judge would let camp turn into any kind of circus? It's probably a moot point any way. I'm sure it will be the Cowboys. Jerry loves this kind attention and cameras swarming around them.


I don’t really care to watch. I have never watched even one second of a Hard Knocks since its inception and most likely never will..OTOH, i haven’t watched one second of highlights or read one word about an OTA or minicamp for at least 10-15 years save for an injury report..Zero interest.

If it doesn’t disrupt anything (Hard Knocks) then fine..
RE: I know I'm in the minority  
Jimmy Googs : 6/11/2021 9:06 am : link
In comment 15284450 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
But I would LOVE it if they were chosen for the show.


Not sure it is the minority any longer. Not advocating for it but see no harm or sound logic against it either.
The other thing..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/11/2021 9:09 am : link
I've heard is that there's a bunch of stuff going on behind the scenes for the team to be shown this year. The Cowboys are eligible and Jerrah loves the spotlight on the team, but supposedly the Jags have proactively approached the NFL about being on the show.

I've heard they are just trying to work out the situation between the two.

Now watch as I post this and Rodgers or Watson gets traded to Denver and they're the team!!
If they believe in Judge the way that I think they do  
csb : 6/11/2021 9:10 am : link
It may be the best year for the Giants to participate. Lots of story lines from the coaching staff, DJ year 3, Saquon rehab, big free agent class, O-line questions, etc.

I never wanted the Giants on Hard Knocks but I think it would be a great year to do it. Seems like it will be a very likeable group and a good representation of the Giants brand.

RE: RE: Hard Knocks is a strange show  
ThreePoints : 6/11/2021 9:12 am : link
In comment 15284451 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15284449 ThreePoints said:


Quote:


in the fact they entirely ignore some positions for the entire show. I remember the Browns season focused heavily on the QB, WR, OL and LB positions. I don't think they ever even mentioned the defensive backs - corners or safeties. It's like those positions didn't exist on a football team.

For example, if the Giants were on this year, they might focus on the QB, RB, WR and CB position. We might hear very little about the tight ends, linebackers and OL - all positions I imagine diehards would want to know about.

I imagine it's an access and resource issue (HBO only has so much staff and so many cameras). But it's something I've noticed in the past.



They don't want to cover everything because it will limit their storylines that they try to cover and track over the episodes in more depth.


I'm sure. But I still find it strange. Sometimes a player will get featured for a few minutes in an episode, and then we never hear from him again. But then sometimes they track guys from episode to episode.

It's just weird. Like I said, the Browns season, if I recall correctly, just totally ignored the DBs. Just completely avoided them, it seemed. Maybe they were all boring, who knows.
If Giants don't plan on doing it this year, they should at least  
Jimmy Googs : 6/11/2021 9:13 am : link
take out the Super Bowl countdown clock and put it back up in the locker room...
Well run teams never appear on Hard Knocks ! They don’t make  
Ivan15 : 6/11/2021 9:13 am : link
For good TV.

Let’s see the Chiefs and see how many drunks and self-destructive personalities are associated with that team.
RE: RE: RE: Hard Knocks is a strange show  
Jimmy Googs : 6/11/2021 9:14 am : link
In comment 15284465 ThreePoints said:
Quote:
In comment 15284451 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15284449 ThreePoints said:


Quote:


in the fact they entirely ignore some positions for the entire show. I remember the Browns season focused heavily on the QB, WR, OL and LB positions. I don't think they ever even mentioned the defensive backs - corners or safeties. It's like those positions didn't exist on a football team.

For example, if the Giants were on this year, they might focus on the QB, RB, WR and CB position. We might hear very little about the tight ends, linebackers and OL - all positions I imagine diehards would want to know about.

I imagine it's an access and resource issue (HBO only has so much staff and so many cameras). But it's something I've noticed in the past.



They don't want to cover everything because it will limit their storylines that they try to cover and track over the episodes in more depth.



I'm sure. But I still find it strange. Sometimes a player will get featured for a few minutes in an episode, and then we never hear from him again. But then sometimes they track guys from episode to episode.



maybe they got cut that week...

:-)
I’ve never been impressed with the show  
UConn4523 : 6/11/2021 9:21 am : link
doesn’t seem that well produced which is weird since it’s HBO. Just seems like “footage” with high quality equipment. I’ve watched bits and pieces from various seasons and it’s just not for me I guess. The NFL is over saturated anyway.
I don't know why a fan WOULDN'T want the team on Hard Knocks  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/11/2021 9:25 am : link
fans seems to scrounge for any grainy footage of practice highlights that they can of this team. This would give more access to the Giants than any other channel. Is it manufactured? Sure, but it's still access and footage.

As a fan, part of the draw to watching a team is developing an affinity for the team/players/coaches. By seeing them more on a personal level, watching them communicate with teammates in practice-- it's just more exposure to that as a fan.

Also, the idea that being on Hard Knocks affects a teams performance is unsupported by any evidence. Here is an in-depth analysis of the "Hard Knocks (Non)Effect" through 2018 https://www.eldo.co/analysis/complete-analysis-hbo-hard-knocks-effect-on-nfl-teams





Updated
2018: Cleveland went from 0-16 to 7-8-1
2019: Raiders went from 4-12 to 7-9
2020: Chargers went from 5-11 to 7-9
2020: Rams 9-7 to 10-6
RE: If Giants don't plan on doing it this year, they should at least  
mfsd : 6/11/2021 9:29 am : link
In comment 15284466 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
take out the Super Bowl countdown clock and put it back up in the locker room...


Hehe well done
Every  
mitch300 : 6/11/2021 9:35 am : link
Year someone starts a thread about hardknocks and most it seems do not want it. I myself really like the show and would love to see the Giants featured on it.
Didn’t we do the road to bring giants  
56n11bestever : 6/11/2021 9:41 am : link
A few years ago the giants did a documentary on the scouting team process. That might have been their way not to do hard knocks.

The year we were eligible with shurmer it was announced the day of the town hall we would not be on the show by John Mara he had a huge smile on his face. When he told us.
Paul  
UConn4523 : 6/11/2021 9:43 am : link
I don't begrudge anyone that wants it. I just don't need it and I prefer to have some sort of mystery to sports. Every time I turn the show on its not that impressive anyway so even if I wanted the Giants to do it I don't think we'd get all that much.
RE: Paul  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/11/2021 9:46 am : link
In comment 15284491 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I don't begrudge anyone that wants it. I just don't need it and I prefer to have some sort of mystery to sports. Every time I turn the show on its not that impressive anyway so even if I wanted the Giants to do it I don't think we'd get all that much.


And at the end of the day - it doesn't mean anything if X percentage of fans want to see this or not. It doesn't even matter if there is a perception that performance is impacted.

There's a reason the NFL has had to threaten teams and make it mandatory for a certain set - because teams generally don't want to do it, and they've given some preference to the older franchises, who don't want to participate.
It would be must-see TV from most on BBI  
Jimmy Googs : 6/11/2021 9:47 am : link
including those against them doing it. And guarantee plenty of threads after each episode...
RE: RE: Paul  
Big Blue '56 : 6/11/2021 9:49 am : link
In comment 15284493 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15284491 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


I don't begrudge anyone that wants it. I just don't need it and I prefer to have some sort of mystery to sports. Every time I turn the show on its not that impressive anyway so even if I wanted the Giants to do it I don't think we'd get all that much.



And at the end of the day - it doesn't mean anything if X percentage of fans want to see this or not. It doesn't even matter if there is a perception that performance is impacted.

There's a reason the NFL has had to threaten teams and make it mandatory for a certain set - because teams generally don't want to do it, and they've given some preference to the older franchises, who don't want to participate.


Have there been any “elite” or serious contender teams that have done this that spring to mind?
For the amount of time I spend on this site while online  
mpinmaine : 6/11/2021 10:05 am : link
It is obvious to me that I starve for anything NYG related.

I would enjoy watching it, I doubt it makes any difference in wins or losses so why not.
RE: Every  
Big Al : 6/11/2021 10:05 am : link
In comment 15284483 mitch300 said:
Quote:
Year someone starts a thread about hardknocks and most it seems do not want it. I myself really like the show and would love to see the Giants featured on it.
i don’t think “most” is true. “It seems” is much closer to the truth. On these type of threads, the really hard core generally post against due to the perception that it will affect performance. Would people prefer that the Giants play their games in a top secret site closed to any view by the public or just be able to watch and be entertained by their team win or lose? Many posters here probably have an aversion to going against the prevailing comments they perceive may be the learned majority opinion. Or just don’t care enough to post and get into a debate,

After a few of us said yes, more and more jumped in to say yes. I think more convinced that a poll of Giants fans would overwhelmingly say yes. But as always, I may be wrong.
most fans definitely want it  
UConn4523 : 6/11/2021 10:12 am : link
I don't think there's any doubt there. I'm guessing it would be 80/20 split to be honest, possibly higher.
In the above post I meant to say  
Big Al : 6/11/2021 10:15 am : link
Play at a top secret site and win a Super Bowl,
RE: The other thing..  
BrettNYG10 : 6/11/2021 10:15 am : link
In comment 15284462 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I've heard is that there's a bunch of stuff going on behind the scenes for the team to be shown this year. The Cowboys are eligible and Jerrah loves the spotlight on the team, but supposedly the Jags have proactively approached the NFL about being on the show.

I've heard they are just trying to work out the situation between the two.

Now watch as I post this and Rodgers or Watson gets traded to Denver and they're the team!!


Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.
RE: RE: Paul  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/11/2021 10:47 am : link
In comment 15284493 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15284491 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


I don't begrudge anyone that wants it. I just don't need it and I prefer to have some sort of mystery to sports. Every time I turn the show on its not that impressive anyway so even if I wanted the Giants to do it I don't think we'd get all that much.



And at the end of the day - it doesn't mean anything if X percentage of fans want to see this or not. It doesn't even matter if there is a perception that performance is impacted.

There's a reason the NFL has had to threaten teams and make it mandatory for a certain set - because teams generally don't want to do it, and they've given some preference to the older franchises, who don't want to participate.


FMIC, I don't give much weight to the idea that because teams generally don't want to do it, that I should interpret it as a bad idea.

There are a lot of things that teams don't want to do with regard to giving access. Many teams/coaches would rather not have to give press conferences, or answer any questions to the media about any type of decision (on the field, personnel, etc.). They'd rather keep everything completely under wraps.

But the only reason sports exist is to serve as entertainment for fans. And what adds to the entertainment of what happens between the lines for 60 minutes is learning about what went into those decisions, what the teams are doing in preparation of those actions, personal connections to the players and the team, storylines, narratives, etc.

This isn't to suggest that there shouldn't be boundaries, just that if every decision about access were completely left up to the desires of coaches and front offices, sports as a whole would be a lot less interesting.
I understand that.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/11/2021 11:05 am : link
And as a fan, I'd watch this.

But there's been way too much discussion about how the ownership of some of the more established teams doesn't want to do it (and the league is tacitly helping them) that whenever people post that we might be on the show, that won't happen unless a significant change takes place.
I think many here are older and they're stuck in that old school  
Stu11 : 6/11/2021 11:20 am : link
Parcells type mentality that football is some kind of stealth warfare, and somehow it puts you at some competitive disadvantage if one iota of info from practices slips out to the public. I'm in my 50's and loved that era but have evolved. I mean the days of Parcells having snipers in the upper deck looking out for practice spies are long gone. Like FMIC says though it's most likely a moot point any way because the organization has avoided the shown like the plague.
FMIC  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/11/2021 11:33 am : link
I agree that Mara gets preferential treatment and would likely be able to avoid the show better than other franchises.
A hard pass....  
Grey Pilgrim : 6/11/2021 11:36 am : link
Thank you.
RE: FMIC  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/11/2021 11:38 am : link
In comment 15284565 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
I agree that Mara gets preferential treatment and would likely be able to avoid the show better than other franchises.


And I'm sure if Judge really pushed to do it, they might relent. But if he's from the same mindset as Little Bill, I don't see that happening. And it isn't anything I've heard yet.

The Giants have given access for certain things in the past where they can lean back on the point that they've helped out without having to go all the way on Hard Knocks.
right, and as a fan, I think it stinks  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/11/2021 11:51 am : link
I think there is a certain arrogance that somehow the Maras or the Giants are somehow better than other franchises and I just don't buy into it. That it somehow means they should get preferential treatment.

I enjoy Hard Knocks because I like the extra footage of practices, learning more about the players on a personal level, seeing them beneath the pads. And every year I watch it I think "would be nice if it could be for the team I actually root for."
Pretty sure teams have editorial approval…  
trueblueinpw : 6/11/2021 2:25 pm : link
This isn’t like putting a live stream in the locker room. The show, like all reality based TV, is highly produced. Hard Knocks isn’t scripted but the content and storylines and what’s broadcast is managed by the teams. The NFL is the most media savvy and media aware (and I think successful) of all professional sports. If Hard Knocks were in any way shape or form bad for business the league would have put the kibosh on it long ago.

For me, I think the Giants would be stupid not to want to be on this show. It could go a long way to restoring the long standing mystique (myth?) of Giants franchise exceptionalism. The real question, in my mind, is whether or not the Giants PR team is capable of leveraging such a tremendous opportunity. Can Big Blue evolve past a hand written letter to a disgruntled season ticket holder? Lord knows that they’ve got more than few of those these days.
RE: They have been eligible for years....  
speedywheels : 6/11/2021 2:31 pm : link
In comment 15284408 George from PA said:
Quote:
Poor records do that....but Mara holds a ton of say....and they stay clear of the Giants


Actually, that's not true. They were not eligible in 2016-2018 (had first year coach in 2016, made playoffs in 2016 so not eligible for 2 years) or 2020 (first year coach).

But other than that, you are dead on!
NO HARD KNOCKS  
D HOS : 6/11/2021 3:15 pm : link
As much as I am a junkie for anything Giants related (moer!! mor!!) Please no hard knocks for the gmen.
RE: RE: FMIC  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/11/2021 3:21 pm : link
In comment 15284569 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15284565 PaulBlakeTSU said:


Quote:


I agree that Mara gets preferential treatment and would likely be able to avoid the show better than other franchises.



And I'm sure if Judge really pushed to do it, they might relent. But if he's from the same mindset as Little Bill, I don't see that happening. And it isn't anything I've heard yet.

The Giants have given access for certain things in the past where they can lean back on the point that they've helped out without having to go all the way on Hard Knocks.


When you look at the restrictions on who they can take there's only 5 teams eligible this year. You laid out a number of teams that have an agreement as well, the chance of us being on it is smaller, but it could happen. Of course I expect us to be in playoffs next 3-5 years so its a moot point.
RE: RE: RE: FMIC  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/11/2021 6:57 pm : link
In comment 15284778 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15284569 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 15284565 PaulBlakeTSU said:


Quote:


I agree that Mara gets preferential treatment and would likely be able to avoid the show better than other franchises.



And I'm sure if Judge really pushed to do it, they might relent. But if he's from the same mindset as Little Bill, I don't see that happening. And it isn't anything I've heard yet.

The Giants have given access for certain things in the past where they can lean back on the point that they've helped out without having to go all the way on Hard Knocks.



When you look at the restrictions on who they can take there's only 5 teams eligible this year. You laid out a number of teams that have an agreement as well, the chance of us being on it is smaller, but it could happen. Of course I expect us to be in playoffs next 3-5 years so its a moot point.


That's not exactly true. Any team can be featured. Because most teams won't do it unless they have to, the league put in the following exemptions:
1) Having first-year head coach.
2) They have a playoff berth in the past two seasons.
3) They have appeared on Hard Knocks in the past 10 years

But a team that is exempt can still be chosen if they ask to be on and are chosen.

Even though Jax has a first year HC, they have asked the NFL to be featured, and they might get their wish.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/11/2021 7:01 pm : link
No interest, but that's me. I'd end up watching it though.
The exemptions are ridiculous  
UConn4523 : 6/11/2021 7:04 pm : link
especially #2. Makes it essentially a punishment for not being good (which is exactly how I see it). No one wants this outside of a couple coaches trying to make a name for themselves. If they are going to do it it should be open to all teams regardless of circumstance.
I think it would be must see TV...  
bw in dc : 6/11/2021 8:23 pm : link
if NYG was the Hard Knocks team.

So I hope this comes to fruition for sure.
RE: I think it would be must see TV...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/11/2021 10:46 pm : link
In comment 15285008 bw in dc said:
Quote:
if NYG was the Hard Knocks team.

So I hope this comes to fruition for sure.


Haha. Wish I said that ...
Mara should  
TommyWiseau : 6/13/2021 5:40 pm : link
Not get any preferential treatment. When Jerry Jones does we all flip out here. It should be equal across the board
I would love to see a team  
break ranks with the league and deny access to the cameras. If I was an owner, I would.
RE: Mara should  
UConn4523 : 7:49 am : link
In comment 15285848 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
Not get any preferential treatment. When Jerry Jones does we all flip out here. It should be equal across the board


I agree that they shouldn't, but this is kinda how business works. Name an industry where having a great relationship doesn't have its advantages. Fair or unfair that's pretty much a rule that's stood the test of time.

And to Sneakers' point I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mara behind closed doors states that he will deny access and welcomes any fines that come along with it. NFL has to weigh how hard to press that issue which I imagine they wouldn't want to, publicly.
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