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Lorenzo Carter injury - people are being naive

NJBlueTuna : 6/11/2021 4:31 pm
I was the biggest Carter fan as his athleticism was off the charts even though his college production was mediocre. I felt he had flashes and was starting to put it together. Then the injury happened. I have been ripped for this on these board but will say it again....

He didn’tj just tear his Achilles. It was a complete rupture. That is far worse. Many don’t seem to realize this. A good percentage never make it back. I don’t even know what the stats are for those that do make it back re how effective they are versus pre-injury.

This is what we know. There has been ZERO team updates re Carter. We paid good FA money to an situational edge rusher from Minny. We drafted an edge who dropped to 2nd rod that had a medical flag re a degenerative knee.

Does anyone else see the same signs re Carter’s future with the Giants?
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Someone is definitely being naive.  
robbieballs2003 : 6/11/2021 4:33 pm : link
There have been plenty of updates regarding him at this stage. Not sure what you are expecting now when there was only OTAs and minicamp.
Zero team updates?  
TrueBlue56 : 6/11/2021 4:35 pm : link
carter has been actively participating in the OTA's since they started and some from the media like pat traina have said he has looked really good.
NJBlueTuna  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/11/2021 4:36 pm : link
You couldn't be more wrong.

He's been practicing without limitations from throughout the OTAs and veteran mini-camp. The reporters not only have remarked about Carter, but have highlighted that he looks completely normal. (He even had a leaping interception in one practice).
.?.....this was the feeling prior to the several reports  
George from PA : 6/11/2021 4:37 pm : link
That said he was moving around great and was playing on 1st team
Someone show me a team statement re his injury  
NJBlueTuna : 6/11/2021 4:37 pm : link
You don’t spend 7M a year on a FA situational edge rusher and then a top pick on another without good reason.
RE: NJBlueTuna  
NJBlueTuna : 6/11/2021 4:38 pm : link
In comment 15284856 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You couldn't be more wrong.

He's been practicing without limitations from throughout the OTAs and veteran mini-camp. The reporters not only have remarked about Carter, but have highlighted that he looks completely normal. (He even had a leaping interception in one practice).


Eric, I hope you are right.
I think his Giant career is toast. He clearly went pretty heavy  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/11/2021 4:38 pm : link
into the PEDs last offseason because his game relies on his athletic ability so much and he paid the piper. Hard to see him doing anything this year that makes him part of the plans in 2022. I have way higher hopes for our 4th rounder. In fact I think Carter is a "surprise" cut, there's a lot of bodies there and he's in last year of his rookie deal.
RE: Someone show me a team statement re his injury  
robbieballs2003 : 6/11/2021 4:38 pm : link
In comment 15284859 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
You don’t spend 7M a year on a FA situational edge rusher and then a top pick on another without good reason.


Lmfao. Team statement? Judge never answers questions on injuries.
RE: RE: NJBlueTuna  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/11/2021 4:40 pm : link
In comment 15284860 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
In comment 15284856 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


You couldn't be more wrong.

He's been practicing without limitations from throughout the OTAs and veteran mini-camp. The reporters not only have remarked about Carter, but have highlighted that he looks completely normal. (He even had a leaping interception in one practice).



Eric, I hope you are right.


I wonder what the PED testing is like in the offseason.
RE: I think his Giant career is toast. He clearly went pretty heavy  
NJBlueTuna : 6/11/2021 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15284861 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
into the PEDs last offseason because his game relies on his athletic ability so much and he paid the piper. Hard to see him doing anything this year that makes him part of the plans in 2022. I have way higher hopes for our 4th rounder. In fact I think Carter is a "surprise" cut, there's a lot of bodies there and he's in last year of his rookie deal.


His calling card was his freakish athletic ability. What many are ignoring on this site is the difference been an Achilles tear vs a complete rupture. And btw, just a “tear” is significant injury with long term impact for many.
NJBlueTuna  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/11/2021 4:41 pm : link
It's not a matter of me being "right" or "wrong," it is what has been reported.

Could he be permanently damaged goods? Sure. But none of us expected him to be even practicing yet and he has been practicing without limitation. That's not an opinion.
RE: RE: RE: NJBlueTuna  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/11/2021 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15284863 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15284860 NJBlueTuna said:


Quote:


In comment 15284856 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


You couldn't be more wrong.

He's been practicing without limitations from throughout the OTAs and veteran mini-camp. The reporters not only have remarked about Carter, but have highlighted that he looks completely normal. (He even had a leaping interception in one practice).



Eric, I hope you are right.



I wonder what the PED testing is like in the offseason.


Only way I can see him reasonably bouncing back this year. Still 9 months off an injury like that without being able to train coming with rebound heavier PED usage, let's see what he does when he puts on the pads.
Ifeadi Odenigbo  
arniefez : 6/11/2021 4:43 pm : link
who was signed as a FA after playing for the Vikings is a DE not an LB. I hope Carter can come back for his sake. For our sake as fans I hope the Giants find a starter at that spot that plays at a much higher level than Carter has so far.
RE: RE: I think his Giant career is toast. He clearly went pretty heavy  
robbieballs2003 : 6/11/2021 4:43 pm : link
In comment 15284864 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
In comment 15284861 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


into the PEDs last offseason because his game relies on his athletic ability so much and he paid the piper. Hard to see him doing anything this year that makes him part of the plans in 2022. I have way higher hopes for our 4th rounder. In fact I think Carter is a "surprise" cut, there's a lot of bodies there and he's in last year of his rookie deal.



His calling card was his freakish athletic ability. What many are ignoring on this site is the difference been an Achilles tear vs a complete rupture. And btw, just a “tear” is significant injury with long term impact for many.


Who is ignoring it? You are making a lot of speculations.
RE: RE: RE: RE: NJBlueTuna  
81_Great_Dane : 6/11/2021 4:43 pm : link
In comment 15284866 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15284863 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


In comment 15284860 NJBlueTuna said:


Quote:


In comment 15284856 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


You couldn't be more wrong.

He's been practicing without limitations from throughout the OTAs and veteran mini-camp. The reporters not only have remarked about Carter, but have highlighted that he looks completely normal. (He even had a leaping interception in one practice).



Eric, I hope you are right.



I wonder what the PED testing is like in the offseason.



Only way I can see him reasonably bouncing back this year. Still 9 months off an injury like that without being able to train coming with rebound heavier PED usage, let's see what he does when he puts on the pads.
Serious question: How would PEDs help recovery from a ruptured Achilles?
definition of  
JonC : 6/11/2021 4:44 pm : link
JAG
RE: Someone show me a team statement re his injury  
Jay on the Island : 6/11/2021 4:44 pm : link
In comment 15284859 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
You don’t spend 7M a year on a FA situational edge rusher and then a top pick on another without good reason.

Who did the Giants spend 7 million a year on? Odenigbo is making just $2.5 million. Do you guys realize that the Giants start two OLB’s in their scheme? I would be more concerned if I were Ximines.
RE: NJBlueTuna  
NJBlueTuna : 6/11/2021 4:44 pm : link
In comment 15284865 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
It's not a matter of me being "right" or "wrong," it is what has been reported.

Could he be permanently damaged goods? Sure. But none of us expected him to be even practicing yet and he has been practicing without limitation. That's not an opinion.


Agree it is not about you being right or wrong. It is based upon the facts as I posted them (rupture vs tear, signing an expensive FA situational edge and spending a top draft pick on another edge) and him participating in OTAs. All facts.
I'm not high on Carter;  
Angel Eyes : 6/11/2021 4:45 pm : link
he didn't play real well before the injury: 15 tackles, 1 sack in 2020, that averages out to 45 tackles, 3 sacks. In his first full year as a starter he had 45 tackles and 4.5 sacks.

I could see the Giants going with an edge rusher early in the 2022 draft given that they have at least three with their contracts expiring after 2021: Carter, Odenigbo, and Anderson. On the other hand the Patriots' system (which we're drawing from) seems to prefer mediocre pass rushers he might still fit.
......  
Klaatu : 6/11/2021 4:45 pm : link


Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Tuna?
RE: Ifeadi Odenigbo  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/11/2021 4:45 pm : link
In comment 15284867 arniefez said:
Quote:
who was signed as a FA after playing for the Vikings is a DE not an LB. I hope Carter can come back for his sake. For our sake as fans I hope the Giants find a starter at that spot that plays at a much higher level than Carter has so far.


Odenigbo has been working with the edge rushers. He can can play down (and inside) in pass-rush packages, as he did in Minnesota. They even gave him a LB number.
.....  
Klaatu : 6/11/2021 4:46 pm : link
.  
Big Blue '56 : 6/11/2021 4:47 pm : link
Quote:


He didn’tj just tear his Achilles. It was a complete rupture. That is far worse. Many don’t seem to realize this. A good percentage never make it back.



What’s the so-called percentage?
FYI  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/11/2021 4:47 pm : link
in the NYP article posted in another thread:

Quote:
Outside linebacker Lorenzo Carter, who missed the last 11 games in 2020 with an Achilles tendon injury: “Just knowing him as a person, I knew he was gonna come back ready to go. It’s just been cool and been amazing to see him back the way he’s moving, the way he’s looking out there.”

Blake Martinez already loves these Giants - ( New Window )
RE: ......  
NJBlueTuna : 6/11/2021 4:48 pm : link
In comment 15284875 Klaatu said:
Quote:


Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Tuna?


I stand corrected. This will be Carter’s breakout season as it’s the last year of his contract lol
RE: NJBlueTuna  
Mike from Ohio : 6/11/2021 4:48 pm : link
In comment 15284865 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
It's not a matter of me being "right" or "wrong," it is what has been reported.

Could he be permanently damaged goods? Sure. But none of us expected him to be even practicing yet and he has been practicing without limitation. That's not an opinion.


Objective facts suck when they get in the way of a good rant.
Attack the post not the poster.  
robbieballs2003 : 6/11/2021 4:49 pm : link
Attack the post not the poster.
RE: .  
NJBlueTuna : 6/11/2021 4:49 pm : link
In comment 15284879 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:


Quote:




He didn’tj just tear his Achilles. It was a complete rupture. That is far worse. Many don’t seem to realize this. A good percentage never make it back.





What’s the so-called percentage?


You obviously think a tear is the same as a complete rupture so just go with that and I hope you are right.
So ...  
robbieballs2003 : 6/11/2021 4:51 pm : link
What is your Mount Rushmore of threads where posters show they think an achilles rupture is the same as an achilles tear?
RE: RE: .  
Big Blue '56 : 6/11/2021 4:54 pm : link
In comment 15284885 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
In comment 15284879 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:




Quote:




He didn’tj just tear his Achilles. It was a complete rupture. That is far worse. Many don’t seem to realize this. A good percentage never make it back.





What’s the so-called percentage?



You obviously think a tear is the same as a complete rupture so just go with that and I hope you are right.


What? I simply asked you to provide the data that supports your thesis that “a good percentage, never make it back.” What is a “good percentage?”
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: NJBlueTuna  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/11/2021 4:55 pm : link
In comment 15284869 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 15284866 Zeke's Alibi said:



Serious question: How would PEDs help recovery from a ruptured Achilles?


PEDs will help him gain the size and strength need to become a better player. He definitely upped his PED usage last offseason in that window they can all do it, and what happens is because your tendons heal and grow at a much slower rate than muscle and strength does, they have a higher propensity for these type of injuries. Apparently there are some you can take specifically for Tendon strength, but don't quote me on that.

But they giveth and taketh away, eventually you return to what was sub-baseline size, strength, and explosivness a year or so later (why I thought Tate was going to suck balls), until you return to what was a slightly higher baseline for size, explosiveness, and strength than pre increased PED usage.
RE: RE: ......  
Klaatu : 6/11/2021 4:57 pm : link
In comment 15284882 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
In comment 15284875 Klaatu said:


Quote:




Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Tuna?



I stand corrected. This will be Carter’s breakout season as it’s the last year of his contract lol


You're an idiot. I'm not very high on Carter at all, but I'm not dumb enough to write "There has been ZERO team updates re Carter," when there have been comments about him from his teammates, and pictures of him working at the OTA's without restrictions.

But you go ahead and triple down on the stupid if it makes you feel good.
RE: RE: RE: ......  
NJBlueTuna : 6/11/2021 4:59 pm : link
In comment 15284893 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 15284882 NJBlueTuna said:


Quote:


In comment 15284875 Klaatu said:


Quote:




Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Tuna?



I stand corrected. This will be Carter’s breakout season as it’s the last year of his contract lol



You're an idiot. I'm not very high on Carter at all, but I'm not dumb enough to write "There has been ZERO team updates re Carter," when there have been comments about him from his teammates, and pictures of him working at the OTA's without restrictions.

But you go ahead and triple down on the stupid if it makes you feel good.


Honestly I haven’t seen much and will own that. I guess it’s good he’s participating in OTAs “without limitation”. He always had freakish athletic ability but his production didn’t match. I guess we will see.
RE: Attack the post not the poster.  
Semipro Lineman : 6/11/2021 5:01 pm : link
In comment 15284884 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Attack the post not the poster.


Party pooper
RE: RE: RE: ......  
NJBlueTuna : 6/11/2021 5:01 pm : link
In comment 15284893 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 15284882 NJBlueTuna said:


Quote:


In comment 15284875 Klaatu said:


Quote:




Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Tuna?



I stand corrected. This will be Carter’s breakout season as it’s the last year of his contract lol



You're an idiot. I'm not very high on Carter at all, but I'm not dumb enough to write "There has been ZERO team updates re Carter," when there have been comments about him from his teammates, and pictures of him working at the OTA's without restrictions.

But you go ahead and triple down on the stupid if it makes you feel good.


Btw leading with “you’re an idiot” is usually not the best way to win an argument on facts and/or analysis. But it did make me laugh.
Uggh as to that thread title  
FranknWeezer : 6/11/2021 5:03 pm : link
That's all.
This  
Professor Falken : 6/11/2021 5:04 pm : link
thread sucks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ......  
Klaatu : 6/11/2021 5:04 pm : link
In comment 15284900 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:

Btw leading with “you’re an idiot” is usually not the best way to win an argument on facts and/or analysis. But it did make me laugh.


Actually, it's the best way to deal with an idiot.
One of the Flaws of BBI Posts  
Samiam : 6/11/2021 5:10 pm : link
People are constantly reporting/giving opinions on medical injuries in players when: they are not medical people, they don’t know what the real medical in the field say let alone the medical people treating the player and clearly they have never met let alone examined the player. It’s often something like my aunt Tilley or my brother-in-law had this kind of injury and was laid up for a year.

This bothers me almost as much as the Rushmore posts.
RE: One of the Flaws of BBI Posts  
Semipro Lineman : 6/11/2021 5:20 pm : link
In comment 15284907 Samiam said:
Quote:
People are constantly reporting/giving opinions on medical injuries in players when: they are not medical people, they don’t know what the real medical in the field say let alone the medical people treating the player and clearly they have never met let alone examined the player. It’s often something like my aunt Tilley or my brother-in-law had this kind of injury and was laid up for a year.

This bothers me almost as much as the Rushmore posts.


So that makes it to your Rushmore of BBI post peeves list
Comedian  
Samiam : 6/11/2021 5:24 pm : link
But good point
RE: RE: .  
River Mike : 6/11/2021 5:26 pm : link
In comment 15284885 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
In comment 15284879 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:




Quote:




He didn’tj just tear his Achilles. It was a complete rupture. That is far worse. Many don’t seem to realize this. A good percentage never make it back.





What’s the so-called percentage?



You obviously think a tear is the same as a complete rupture so just go with that and I hope you are right.


With regard to your last sentence ... "You obviously think a tear is the same as a complete rupture", it appears you may not be aware that Big Blue 56 is an orthopedic surgeon.
Really shouldn't be making accusations of PED usage  
montanagiant : 6/11/2021 5:29 pm : link
Without actual proof or facts
Carter may or may not pan out  
Cenotaph : 6/11/2021 5:31 pm : link
he showed some flashes rookie year, had a setback getting hurt last year. But he could be a good piece on this D and I would think we're all hoping that happens. Some here get weird almost obsessions hoping guys will fail, most often draft picks - probably they preferred someone else (or just dislike the front office). While I'm not expecting a huge season from Carter, a repeat of his rookie #'s or a couple sacks better should be a nice boost. I would expect this scheme to not have 1 huge sack guy, but to spread them around between DL/LBs, even a few DBs.

We don't have a clear huge sack guy, but this D has a lot of talent. If used well, it should be a solid D next year.
RE: Really shouldn't be making accusations of PED usage  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/11/2021 5:52 pm : link
In comment 15284922 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Without actual proof or facts


I'm not judging it because almost all these guys are on gear. It was just blindingly obvious to me, the guy put on 10lbs of pure muscle in a 2-3 month period. I mean they wrote articles on him getting bigger that offseason. That's all I really needed to see as far as proof, but then he goes and ruptures his Achilles for the cherry on top.
RE: signing an expensive FA situational edge & spending a top draft …  
Trainmaster : 6/11/2021 6:05 pm : link
… pick on another edge

Why? How about?

“You can never have too many pass rushers”

The good thing  
Breeze_94 : 6/11/2021 6:11 pm : link
Is that the Giants aren’t overly reliant on Carter..they are very deep with viable EDGE options...Ojulari, Odenigbo, Ximines, Brown, Anderson, Smith.

While Carter has the highest ceiling and I’d love to see him reach it, they will be okay if he doesn’t have that breakout we’ve been waiting for. And if it happens, it’s a bonus and they have to then worry about paying him (or get a nice comp pick when someone else gives him the bag)
regarding the injury  
RAIN : 6/11/2021 6:18 pm : link
Treatment has improved significantly over the last five years post surgery.

BB 56' posted something from the athletic that verified this a month or so ago. They have improved on reattachment surgery precision and generally have immobilization last a much shorter timetable and get movement back into the area much faster.

This has allowed athletes to come back much faster across sports.
RE: RE: signing an expensive FA situational edge & spending a top draft …  
Jay on the Island : 6/11/2021 6:30 pm : link
In comment 15284941 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
… pick on another edge

Why? How about?

“You can never have too many pass rushers”

Again who is the expensive FA situational pass rusher the Giants signed? Is $2.5 million considered expensive?
I was expecting Carter to miss most if not all of training camp  
Jay on the Island : 6/11/2021 6:30 pm : link
But he was already practicing during OTA's and minicamp which is a very encouraging sign.
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