NFT: What is your philosophy when buying a car?

for cars known for their reliability. I pay cash.

I picked up a few year old honda civic last year with 150k miles. I'll probably drive it until 300k. Well, that was working out well until I started working from home.

I do this as the cost per mile curve is very favorable. I only care about getting from point A to B safely and as cheaply as possible. Your mileage may vary depending on what is important to you.

doesn’t make sense in this market, the prices are jacked up due to all the shortages out there. My car, a 2018 CRV EX-L has 7 payments left and in total, a $22k buyout. The exact same car on the lot with more miles and certified pre owned is going for $28k. Brand new the car is maybe $32k.

How’s the time to go brand new if you can find what you are looking for. Leasing vs buying is up to your personal goals, there’s pros and cons to both.

In comment 15285185 UConn4523 said:

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doesn’t make sense in this market, the prices are jacked up due to all the shortages out there. My car, a 2018 CRV EX-L has 7 payments left and in total, a $22k buyout. The exact same car on the lot with more miles and certified pre owned is going for $28k. Brand new the car is maybe $32k. How’s the time to go brand new if you can find what you are looking for. Leasing vs buying is up to your personal goals, there’s pros and cons to both.

Agree with Uconn. Last few cars I've bought certified pre-owned and save 1/4 to 1/3 off new price. If you don't get at least a 20% discount on a pre-owned I would go new.

Set filters for used vehicles under 25K with less than 20k miles and no accidents.

Last one I got for myself was a 2013 fully loaded Mercedes C250 Luxury with 9100 miles for 19.5K. Bought it in 2015. I bought my wife a 2018 Mazda 6, again fully loaded, with 17K miles for 18.5 the day before the pandemic shut down VA. Both have been outstanding vehicles.

When you look at 1-2 year depreciation - hard to argue against certified pre-owned

With low interest rates on some new cars, it may not be the smartest thing to do, but i hate making payments.

just pay cash for certified pre-owned?

Unbelievable that your CRV has 215,000 miles. That's impressive.

In comment 15285201 rmc3981 said:

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With low interest rates on some new cars, it may not be the smartest thing to do, but i hate making payments.

If someone might lease that generally means they don’t want to or can’t pay $30k+ cash for a car. And why would you anyway? Interest is so low now, there’s no advantage anymore to giving them all your money up front. Taking $25k of that and investing would be the way to go.

if I finance or not.

My last car I bought (2016 Honda Pilot) offered 0% financing - so I took it. I will always take 0% financing if it's offered.

otherwise I probably pay for the car outright.

I just factory ordered a 2021 Ford F-150 and will pay for it.

arrangement if I can negotiate a better overall deal or see if dealership willing to provide extended warranty, long term maintenance plan or other add-on. Once deal complete, just pay off financing that month.

"I hate life so much"

I know this goes against the convention wisdom, but I just never did get the “two year old” car thing. I just find it so easy to negotiate a great deal on a new car. And find it so difficult to negotiate a used car.

Above and beyond that, I find value in knowing everything in the car of a two year old car is two years closer t repair. Tires, fluids brakes and all the basics. But also the unforeseen minor $500 repairs. The warranty is two years less. Everything is two years less, each person I guess can value that differently. But there is definitely a monetary value that is hidden.

When you trade in your car, it also has value as a two year older car, especially if it’s high mileage. Could be a few hundred bucks, or a couple thousand. Again, one owner and newer, there is a hidden value to it once again.

It all depends how well you negotiate and can find the right deal. I know people who have been ecstatic they saved 20% or more buying used. By comparing used to new sticker. It’s not unheard of to buy a new car for 20% off sticker, in those cases it’s a no brainer to me.

Paid 24k... on used car sites they are going for ~30k

2018 grand Cherokee

my philosophy is cars are like phones and TVs to me. I always buy or lease new cause I just don’t love the feel of a used car.

Just leased the new Kia Sorento, I basically went in and said here are my preferred options and then went from there. Went back and forth about 3 times on the monthly payment and settled on a price

I looked at all the cars you mentioned too, thought i was gonna love the Mazda based on everyone’s recommendation but didn’t love it.

I’d check out the Sorento S or EX. Best test drive I’ve done in a long time and it has a little more tech features than the competition. We leased it on the spot

Getting a long, (5 or more years) low interest loan is a good philosophy.

Getting a long warranty on parts and service is a good philosophy.
Having a convenient, friendly dealer is good philosophy.

Getting a color that your wife or girlfriend approves of is a good philosophy.

Sometimes, depending on the deal, I will buy new and finance for a month a pay it off. Sometimes I have found a lot of added discounts if you sign up for the financing--I make sure there are no pay off early penalties.

My plan is always to have and drive my car for at least 10 years. I love not worrying about keeping it in a certain way for a lease or under a certain mileage. I beat my cars up pretty good over time.

and keep if for 10+ years.
That has worked out well.

I also bought a pre-owned certified car from the dealer for my son. That worked out great as I still get free oil changes with it 6+ years later.

I have bought new and newer used recently. All depends on the deal I can get, the condition of the car, the CarFax history, etc.

Over the past 15 years or so I have purchased 1 CPO car (sold at 166K), 1 used car that was less than 1 year old (still own), 1 new truck (traded it in for my new truck at 67K as I didn't love some small things going on and was a little bored with it TBH) and most recently a new truck that I felt like I stole from the dealership. Rebates & dealer incentives took over 10K off of a 55K list.

May be harder to find a good deal in today's market though. Chip shortage and low inventory levels making it tougher. I should also not I typically buy in the fall when new model years start coming in.

regarding buying new - is there a sweet spot as to when to do list? I’m not concerned as much with getting the newest model, so would buying a 21 in the fall when the 22’s hit the lot make more sense?

too many unknowns in this market. Inventory will dictate everything and I’d imagine new models will be delayed and older (2021) models will hold their value well since there’s a nationwide shortage.

If you aren’t in a rush you might as well wait and see if this corrects over the next few months. Personally I give up and trying to tough it out all summer with 1 car. I only need a 2nd vehicle for convenience between my wife and I but the used market is such a pain that I’ll just hold off for a bit.

you can buy a new Tesla and not have to haggle over anything :)

pay cash. Hold on to it for 10 years, Repeat.

I have always bought new cars, sometimes I finance, sometimes I lease. But I think my next car will be a CPO because I found a car I really like but the refresh I hate. So I will be looking for a 2020 model when my Volvo lease is up.

Bought a Camry with 20,000 miles for $17,000.
https://www.hertzcarsales.com/ - ( New Window )

You just don't know how well they were maintained.

So I now buy new and take care of it and plan to hold a very long time. I like the warranty and the new tires and the new car feel.

With all the tech advancements in cars, it seems like cars have become like cellphones with new safety/technology features being added all the time.

If that's important to you, leasing would make more sense than buying.

Used cars prices have spiked and your unlikely to get much of a discount on a new car because of low inventories. Many cars are actually selling above MSRP now.

I am in the business and unless you need a car you are better off waiting until inventory constraints ease.

We have an old Volvo, we paid cash for it and it’s pretty much like a member of the family now that we’ve he/r for more than 15 years. When I drive that car, even today, I still think about what a great car it is. After years of looking I finally found a great Volvo mechanic here on Long Island. I budget about $1,200 per month for maintenance. (Kidding, but only not really because Volvos are fuck all expensive to work on).

We also have a lease car. I initially got for tax purposes when I owned my own business. To us, this car is a rental, we really only think about what we want to drive and how much we want the the monthly payment. Dealers takes care of service, etc. We get a new one every two to three years. The Mrs. deals with the dealer, she’s a much better negotiator than I am.

So, two different cars with two different philos.

Unless you're going to sell it right after driving it off the lot what difference does it make what the resale value is immediately after purchase?

I usually put at least 175,000 miles on the car before trading in. As others have said the new car feel is nice and I like having the warranty

In comment 15285255 rmc3981 said:

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you can buy a new Tesla and not have to haggle over anything :)

Except telling the wife you just paid $80,000 for a car.

In comment 15285285 Gman11 said:

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Unless you're going to sell it right after driving it off the lot what difference does it make what the resale value is immediately after purchase?

If you’re keeping the car 10+ years, not that much. But if you’re moving into a new car every few years it costs you a lot. A typical car loses 25% of its value that first year and nearly half overall after 3 years.

Inventories on both new and used are at an all time low.
Otherwise,
I usually short term lease 2 years and do 10k miles per.
If I love the car after 2 years I buy it and in most cases have equity if I want to flip it in a year or 2.

I pay cash, maintain the vehicle to the absolute best standard that I can, and drive it into the ground. In the long run, that is THE most economical way to buy.

Buying new allows me to get it pretty much exactly the way I want it within the boundaries of what is available. If I can't get what I want, I won't buy it. And I am a very picky bastard, which is why Ford has lost my business twice and Toyota has never been able to win my business for either their their main brand or Lexus.

Buying a late model used with relatively low mileage (definitely under 50K) gets more vehicle for the money but you are buying somebody else's problems. I've had both big wins and bad results doing this, but I can definitely say that about new cars too, which is the main reason I won't touch GM vehicles any more, and also the reason I am becoming more critical of Ford products.

And for perspective, I was in as auto services business and did a lot of my own work when I was a lot younger.

In comment 15285206 pjcas18 said:

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if I finance or not. My last car I bought (2016 Honda Pilot) offered 0% financing - so I took it. I will always take 0% financing if it's offered. otherwise I probably pay for the car outright. I just factory ordered a 2021 Ford F-150 and will pay for it.

PJ...here is something that worked for me the last two times I bought a car. It was my wife's car and also my truck. I planned to buy cash for both IF there was no 0% or 1% financing. Unfortunately, they did not have such a deal at that time.

So, do not tell the salesman what your plan is when it comes to how you are going to pay. Negotiate the lowest possible price for the vehicle with him.

Then, you will be sent into the finance department. They make thousands if you finance the vehicle. Tell the finance guy that you planned to buy cash. However, you would be willing to finance the car if...

1. He reduced the price of the vehicle
2. there was no prepayment penalty.

In both instances, I was able to have the finance guy reduce the cost of the vehicle by at least $2k.

For my wife's car he knew I was planning to pay it in full when I drove off the lot. However, he asked to wait 30 days so the lender would not claw back his commission.

He also credited me for the first month's interest. I waited until the first payment was due and just sent a check for the entire balance.

We both won.

I like to replace cars every three years depending on the residual and mf. I identify what I want upfront, build it out online and set targets and stretch goals. I’ll call the sales dept at virtually every dealership in a 500 mile radius with my specs, but never before I’m ready to say yes on the spot. Very important to be prepared to say yes to get the best possible offer. Also, have some flexibility in your specs and keep detailed notes. Most times you’ll eventually get the vin from a spec sheet so you’ll see multiple dealers shopping the same vehicle, which is great for price discovery.

As offers come in, I shift the goal posts, beat down the monthly and start making outrageous demands. Cash incentives, unearned fleet/loyalty credits, pickup/dropoff with loaner for all service, extended warranties, free Sirius xm, free “OnStar,” tire repair insurance, upgraded components, tinted windows, floor mats, LoJack, roadside assistance and towing, free car washes, expedited inspections. I’m a real pleasure. This drops a majority of the dealers, but there are several who will still be game.

At this stage you squeeze the last drops of blood from the stone, pick your preffered dealership, and done. I’ve negotiated every car deal for those closest to me for the last 20 years in this manner, never have had stress or a bad deal from my end, and still have good relationships with many of the dealerships because I am open with them that they are in a bidding war, I maintain excellent communication throughout, and I am decisive when given what I ask for. Sometimes one deal doesn’t work, but the next one does.

Have them deliver to the office or house snd pick it back up in 36mos. Never set foot in a dealership. Never have your cash tied up in the worst asset ever. I’m ok with a slight premium vs having to deal with selling a car down the road and if I just have to keep the thing, the buyout generally gets you near to what the cost to buy up front would be if the residual and mf were good.

last several have been cpo + further extended warranty.
finance every penny with cheap money deals (1-3% apr)
long warranties are a must on these cars.
look for refundable or pro-rate refundable,
so upon a sale down the road, you can get back a check.
last year was lots of low mile off lease deals due to wfh.
grabbed a 2yr old cpo bmw 17k miles, 1/3 off msrp.

In comment 15285310 EricJ said:

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In comment 15285206 pjcas18 said: Quote: if I finance or not. My last car I bought (2016 Honda Pilot) offered 0% financing - so I took it. I will always take 0% financing if it's offered. otherwise I probably pay for the car outright. I just factory ordered a 2021 Ford F-150 and will pay for it. PJ...here is something that worked for me the last two times I bought a car. It was my wife's car and also my truck. I planned to buy cash for both IF there was no 0% or 1% financing. Unfortunately, they did not have such a deal at that time. So, do not tell the salesman what your plan is when it comes to how you are going to pay. Negotiate the lowest possible price for the vehicle with him. Then, you will be sent into the finance department. They make thousands if you finance the vehicle. Tell the finance guy that you planned to buy cash. However, you would be willing to finance the car if... 1. He reduced the price of the vehicle 2. there was no prepayment penalty. In both instances, I was able to have the finance guy reduce the cost of the vehicle by at least $2k. For my wife's car he knew I was planning to pay it in full when I drove off the lot. However, he asked to wait 30 days so the lender would not claw back his commission. He also credited me for the first month's interest. I waited until the first payment was due and just sent a check for the entire balance. We both won.

Good tip and I will do that since on my pre-order all I did was pay a deposit.

And I'm the opposite of Glowrider.

I have owned two cars the past 20 years.

A 2002 Acura TL (which I got in fall of 2001) and a 2012 Acura MDX with I got in March or so of 2012.

I bought both cars - the TL I bought through BJ's car buying program - pre-negotiated price for the most part and the MDX I did a bunch of research.

No idea why someone would want to go back to car shopping every 2 - 3 years unless you're someone who has to some latest feature.

My 2012 Acura MDX seems like it's still a modern car. If I trade it in I'll get around 10k for it (per Carvana estimate).

I can't see how leasing is better financially or the hassle of car shopping is enjoyable to anyone.

but to each his own.

Tech, safety, looks and features. I like driving cars hard and not babying them. I like not caring about making it to a bajillion miles. I like having warranties that run the entire length of ownership. I like having services covered the entire length of ownership. I like knowing there won’t be some odd part that needs to be ordered that isn’t used anymore. I like that my monthly is predictable. I like that if I have to have it, I can, and if I don’t want it, I give it back.

Cars change so much, and the technology today is significantly better than anything in the last three years, let alone the last two decades, and the cars three years from today will be significantly better than the ones we have today, for what we can expect will be similar in price.

you, I hate car shopping.

if you don't consider it a hassle then even better.

you could probably open a small business doing this on behalf of people as kind of a side job if you wanted to.

I can't bring myself to throw that much money away. Whether your budget is 10k, 25k, or 50k. You can get so much more value out of a 2-4 year old vehicle with low miles (under 10k/year).

My wife just bought her first new car, but it's electric so there were thousands in rebates that reconciled it. We ended up paying about 38k for a fully decked out 2019 Leaf SL-whatever with the extended battery in the fall of 2019.

In comment 15285331 pjcas18 said:

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you, I hate car shopping. if you don't consider it a hassle then even better. you could probably open a small business doing this on behalf of people as kind of a side job if you wanted to.

I’m an attorney, but this could be a great new practice area!

.

In comment 15285331 pjcas18 said:

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you, I hate car shopping. if you don't consider it a hassle then even better. you could probably open a small business doing this on behalf of people as kind of a side job if you wanted to.

Not that this would make you change your philosophy but there are terrific car lease brokers around. You dont have to do anything. Many dont charge me a fee. Name a car, model and price. They try to get that for you or as close as possible. Mine delivers the car as well. Zero headache.

Not sure about today, but pre-pandemic you could find some extremely good deals if you were interested in assuming a lease. The lease is fixed, but oftentimes an incentive would be offered to get out of a lease or if the length/miles numbers were not in an accepted range, to effectively lower the rate. Also, you avoid the down payment.

In comment 15285344 Jim in Forest Hills said:

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In comment 15285331 pjcas18 said: Quote: you, I hate car shopping. if you don't consider it a hassle then even better. you could probably open a small business doing this on behalf of people as kind of a side job if you wanted to. Not that this would make you change your philosophy but there are terrific car lease brokers around. You dont have to do anything. Many dont charge me a fee. Name a car, model and price. They try to get that for you or as close as possible. Mine delivers the car as well. Zero headache.

If they don’t charge you a fee, how do they make money?

In comment 15285346 superspynyg said:

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If they don’t charge you a fee, how do they make money?

They charge the dealer a fee.

So in the end, they charge you a fee.

Buy used. I buy all of my cars with 10,000 - 15,000 miles on them. Reduces the cost be a ridiculous amount and you even get the new car smell :)

Sometimes I don't know if cars really exist, sometimes I don't know what to think...

your priorities are. If you are into all of the latest tech and drive less than 10k miles a year go for the short term lease route. The residual benefit on the low mileage leases makes a huge payment difference.

If you drive a lot finance for sure. Whether that’s new or preowned. You don’t want to be mileage broke two years into a three year lease.

I do think car companies are really starting to gear their efforts more and more toward leasing for a variety of reasons. Many want the latest tech as noted above, people want lower payments, and the cost to replace a lot of these safety features and infotainment options is astronomical. I think a lot of people financing cars in today’s day and age are going to be in for a big shock when pixels start burning out on the dash or center screens. Car companies are also using technology in repair shops that your local repair store can’t afford. Forcing you into high cost dealer based servicing. You don’t have to worry about huge service costs when leasing as you typically have the car for two or three years.

To give you an example, someone clipped the mirror of my 2020 Mercedes-Benz GLC. The mirror housing was slightly cracked underneath and the blind spot assist wasn’t working. That mirror cost $1,300 to replace.

In comment 15285351 Jim in Fairfax said:

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In comment 15285346 superspynyg said: Quote: If they don’t charge you a fee, how do they make money? They charge the dealer a fee. So in the end, they charge you a fee.

This, don’t worry, you’re paying for the service lol.

In comment 15285285 Gman11 said:

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Unless you're going to sell it right after driving it off the lot what difference does it make what the resale value is immediately after purchase?

100% agree with this but for a different reason. And that is whether you buy hew or used, the second you drive off the lot you’re out a Couple grand. What would happen if you brought in that two year old low mileage car back to the dealership a month after you bought it? Do you think they’d offer you close to what you paid for it a month earlier? Think you’re getting your taxes, fees etc back? New or used, you are out a coup,e of grand the second you drive off the lot

In comment 15285310 EricJ said:

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In comment 15285206 pjcas18 said: Quote: if I finance or not. My last car I bought (2016 Honda Pilot) offered 0% financing - so I took it. I will always take 0% financing if it's offered. otherwise I probably pay for the car outright. I just factory ordered a 2021 Ford F-150 and will pay for it. PJ...here is something that worked for me the last two times I bought a car. It was my wife's car and also my truck. I planned to buy cash for both IF there was no 0% or 1% financing. Unfortunately, they did not have such a deal at that time. So, do not tell the salesman what your plan is when it comes to how you are going to pay. Negotiate the lowest possible price for the vehicle with him. Then, you will be sent into the finance department. They make thousands if you finance the vehicle. Tell the finance guy that you planned to buy cash. However, you would be willing to finance the car if... 1. He reduced the price of the vehicle 2. there was no prepayment penalty. In both instances, I was able to have the finance guy reduce the cost of the vehicle by at least $2k. For my wife's car he knew I was planning to pay it in full when I drove off the lot. However, he asked to wait 30 days so the lender would not claw back his commission. He also credited me for the first month's interest. I waited until the first payment was due and just sent a check for the entire balance. We both won.

Classic. I do something similar on trying to get a better deal once things are turned over to Finance Dept. Usually getting a few extras or better warranty or lower price, but haven’t mastered it like you with the collusion...that’s great!

In comment 15285402 Jimmy Googs said:

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Classic. I do something similar on trying to get a better deal once things are turned over to Finance Dept. Usually getting a few extras or better warranty or lower price, but haven’t mastered it like you with the collusion...that’s great!

I just come right out and ask people how I can help them to personally make more money. I ask for specifics. When they tell me, I try to figure out a way to make it work for both of us. It is so much easier playing poker when both people show their hand and both can win at the same time.

Bought two used cars and both worked out fine. I am a good negotiator and have chosen vehicles that hold their value well. I’ve gotten great trade in numbers. Makes for a great down payment.
I don’t want to own a vehicle that leaves me or my family on the side of the road. Car breaks down in the morning it’s gone in the afternoon. My brother always jokes with me about how good it is that cars aren’t wives.
Cars are my passion and I can afford them so I buy them. It’s worked well for me.

In comment 15285258 Grey Pilgrim said:

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Bought a Camry with 20,000 miles for $17,000. https://www.hertzcarsales.com/ - ( New Window )

You should buy a lottery ticket if you've had good luck with them in the past. People beat the shit out of those cars. At least you know they were well mantained.

Last month I picked up a 2020 Ford Escape hybrid with 16 miles for less than what my wife paid for the same model in 2014.

I paid cash because we are both retired and am hoping this is my last car.

I try to keep it at least 2 years old and under 25,000 miles ...

Then I look to negotiate a price.


What is it they say about the depreciation of a car once you drive it off the lot? How much does it go down?

I guess you'll never need a lift to the supermarket anytime soon.

unless you upgrade every couple years in which case you might as well lease and cut our the risk, along with being able to beat the crap out of it without worry. For most cars depreciation is built into the price - Jeeps cost more because they don’t depreciate as quickly, same for Subarus. There’s exceptions but for the most part it’s already factored in.

I don’t know why anyone would choose paying cash over 0% financing, that’s about as bad a business decision as you can make.

Pay cash or get a 0% interest rate. Doesn't matter if it is used or not. But I don't imagine you will find 0% on a used car.

But for electric cars and maybe all cars, because you are basically buying a computer these days, you might consider leasing. This is especially true of hybrids and electric cars. I have a hybrid and am wondering about the trade value since it has an expensive battery and a computer that the dealer told us was 10k right there.

Cars and TVs have so much tech in them, they are becoming junkers more quickly.

Except your cell phone has more power. The tech is so fundamental to new vehicles, and so prevalent, that you’re basically going computer shopping.

I picked up a German suv last year and that thing has saved my ass from a major accident with its collision avoidance braking system (traveling in the left lane north of the city and a woman came out of one of the center island gas stations which merge into the left lane. She thought she could make it.

The car concluded in its calculations she couldn’t, so it immediately sounds a warning alarm, shuts the windows and roof, turns off the music, and applies the brakes immediately before the driver can react. Accident avoided. If I had been driving an older suv, maybe there would’ve been a different outcome.

I’m less concerned with the tech in the car as long as Apple play is available (next car has to have wireless CarPlay), and more concerned with the safety features present in the drivers assistance packages, like the front and rear collision avoidance, or parallel self parking in the city gets me into spots I couldn’t dream of parking in myself. While semi-emasculating, that feature has paid for itself and saves me an awful lot of money avoiding garages.

If I had an ev, I’d be consistently looking for upgrades in battery and technology. There’s always something techie in new cars these days, and with OTA firmware updates that add features and debug cars, that’s the sort of thing you don’t want to be late on.

In comment 15285589 UConn4523 said:

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unless you upgrade every couple years in which case you might as well lease and cut our the risk, along with being able to beat the crap out of it without worry. For most cars depreciation is built into the price - Jeeps cost more because they don’t depreciate as quickly, same for Subarus. There’s exceptions but for the most part it’s already factored in. I don’t know why anyone would choose paying cash over 0% financing, that’s about as bad a business decision as you can make.

Agreed, even if you dump your cash into a basic savings account you are getting 1-2% back.

In comment 15285285 Gman11 said:

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Unless you're going to sell it right after driving it off the lot what difference does it make what the resale value is immediately after purchase?

I tend to agree with this also. If you plan on keeping the car throughout the loan term (if any), what does initial depreciation matter. My thing is how do I know what's been done with the vehicle and how hard was it driven previously. Sure the CPO inspection will look over everything they physically can see, but the dealer inspection isn't going to be see if someone beat the shit out of their lease and induce premature wear on internal parts for the first 2-3 years of operation.

My philosophy going into a dealer is to negotiate the actual price of the vehicle and trade-in (if any). Don't fall for smoke and mirrors where the sales person will talk about how much the payment will be, blah blah blah. If they leave me sitting for more than 30 minutes to do a "credit check" I'm walking out.

All new vehicle prices can be discounted 10-20% without much hassle via rebates and one's haggle skills.

Don't get emotionally attached to the vehicle, brand or dealer, if they aren't willing to work with you, just go to another dealer or brand, or start lobbying via internet to get a feel for the deals and discounts. Play dealers with internet quotes against each other and look for advertisements in local papers, junk mail, etc...to use as leverage for historical sales.

Good Luck and Happy Shopping!

Buying or leasing? Financing (if you have good credit) or paying cash?

In my situation when I was younger and started to make some good money a friend gave me some excellent advice. I was planning on financing to own at the time.

"Buy something you really like, even if you stretch the budget, because by the time you make the 3rd payment the excitement of a new car will start to wear off and you'll have 33 more payments to make".

He knew me well and for me personally it was good advice and 40 years later even though I no longer finance cars I still go by it.

the old axiom "as soon you as drive this car off the lot it depreciates 25%" (or whatever the percent is) is legitimate anymore in 2021.

I was in the used car market recently and I see a lot of 2020 and 2021 cars on Carvana (and elsewhere) with 500 miles or 1000 miles - generally under 2500 miles that for whatever reason are being re-sold and they're pretty close to sticker. And they are selling at those prices.

maybe it's a supply and demand thing and as noted in many threads lately used car prices are skyrocketing, but like many things our fathers used to say (like don't ever pay asking price for a house or never buy the warranty), some "rules of thumb" change over time - and this may be one of them.

In comment 15285712 pjcas18 said:

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the old axiom "as soon you as drive this car off the lot it depreciates 25%" (or whatever the percent is) is legitimate anymore in 2021. I was in the used car market recently and I see a lot of 2020 and 2021 cars on Carvana (and elsewhere) with 500 miles or 1000 miles - generally under 2500 miles that for whatever reason are being re-sold and they're pretty close to sticker. And they are selling at those prices. maybe it's a supply and demand thing and as noted in many threads lately used car prices are skyrocketing, but like many things our fathers used to say (like don't ever pay asking price for a house or never buy the warranty), some "rules of thumb" change over time - and this may be one of them.

I don’t think you can draw any conclusions from the current car market. Insane stuff going on with dealers adding thousands to the sticker price for a “market adjustment”.

and the pandemic has meant our milage has gone way down. We also moved from the sticks to in-town. I have a '15 CRV bought new 6 years ago. 50K. In the last yr. we put about 3K on it.

Honda has done all my maintenance. I am thinking about replacing it while the value is high. Another CRV, Forester or Mazda are on my list. The RAV4 was on my list, until I rode in my son's. It has the most awkward entrance/exit, that I would be at the chiropractor's after a week of driving it.

I always buy new and finance through the dealer. I might consider cash this time, if I get a decent trade-in.

I’ve heard about them but dont know anyone who has one. Can people who know comment on the plus and minuses of using car brokers to buy a new car. I’m not a bad negotiator but it seems as though Im not as sharp as I used to be. What do they normally charge and if im interested, how would i find a good broker?

In comment 15285285 Gman11 said:

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Unless you're going to sell it right after driving it off the lot what difference does it make what the resale value is immediately after purchase?

How is it stupid if you are the buyer and the dealership is trying to sell it to you at close to near new prices and the bluebook says it is about $8,000.00 cheaper?

I think I know what you are saying but, - if you are buying it could be a handy negotiating tool.

Leased Volvo SUV for wife.
Owned old BMW for me.
Both have been very reliable cars.

I always do all negotiations via email.
I go to showrooms to test drive and pick up new car only.

I look at local dealer stock and pick a car I like and then send email to several local dealers (within ~50 miles) and describe the car I'm looking for and include all the features in the one I selected and ask for non-negotiable offer. Since dealers can swap stock, they all reply with offer for the exact car I picked, and I always get at least 1 super high and 1 super low offer. If I like the lowest price, I make the deal. Usually they bring it to my door and I never step inside the dealership. May not squeeze out every last dime but I've always gotten great deals without any pain.

I also negotiated the bmw vial email only as well.

In comment 15285775 Jim in Fairfax said:

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In comment 15285712 pjcas18 said: Quote: the old axiom "as soon you as drive this car off the lot it depreciates 25%" (or whatever the percent is) is legitimate anymore in 2021. I was in the used car market recently and I see a lot of 2020 and 2021 cars on Carvana (and elsewhere) with 500 miles or 1000 miles - generally under 2500 miles that for whatever reason are being re-sold and they're pretty close to sticker. And they are selling at those prices. maybe it's a supply and demand thing and as noted in many threads lately used car prices are skyrocketing, but like many things our fathers used to say (like don't ever pay asking price for a house or never buy the warranty), some "rules of thumb" change over time - and this may be one of them. I don’t think you can draw any conclusions from the current car market. Insane stuff going on with dealers adding thousands to the sticker price for a “market adjustment”.

The good news is, they're also adding money to trade in values. Or they did for me, anyway.

I had a 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee High Altitude with a lease reaching its end, and had already leased a new 2021 4Runner to replace it. Mrs. Dunk's new Volvo XC60 hasn't come in yet so we were trying to stretch the Jeep out as long as we could, and took it right down to the wire and a little bit beyond.

When I took it to the closest DCJ store to return it, they told me that they couldn't take it back because they couldn't assume the payoff since I was beyond whatever window allowed for that. I figured I was going to have to drive it down to Hazlet to return it to Buhler, where I originally leased it.

A few minutes later, they came out and asked if I wouldn't mind calling Chrysler Capital with them on the line and get the final payoff number, which they then offered to pay on my behalf, and they covered my lease-end fee, and they gave me $500 on the spot as a convenience payment to me.

I don't know if they would have done all that if it wasn't a higher end GC, with under 30k miles, but they made it obvious that they need inventory to feed the demand that is causing the used car market to spike right now.

Ultimately, I realized that I probably should have just assumed the payoff myself and sold the car privately, but that was a headache I didn't need, especially when I was getting relieved of a $460 lease-end payment and getting $500 on top of that.

In comment 15285351 Jim in Fairfax said:

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In comment 15285346 superspynyg said: Quote: If they don’t charge you a fee, how do they make money? They charge the dealer a fee. So in the end, they charge you a fee.

Yes this is 100% true, but if they hit the numbers I wanted, who cares?

In comment 15286158 Jim in Forest Hills said:

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In comment 15285351 Jim in Fairfax said: Quote: In comment 15285346 superspynyg said: Quote: If they don’t charge you a fee, how do they make money? They charge the dealer a fee. So in the end, they charge you a fee. Yes this is 100% true, but if they hit the numbers I wanted, who cares?

Not I. I was just answering the question. A quality broker who gets you a good price can be well worth the fee, whichever side pays it.

...with the presumption that we keep the car for a decade.

We used to love slightly used, but had issues with used cars. Knowing your vehicles entire history is very valuable.

In comment 15285794 VTChuck said:

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and the pandemic has meant our milage has gone way down. We also moved from the sticks to in-town. I have a '15 CRV bought new 6 years ago. 50K. In the last yr. we put about 3K on it. Honda has done all my maintenance. I am thinking about replacing it while the value is high. Another CRV, Forester or Mazda are on my list. The RAV4 was on my list, until I rode in my son's. It has the most awkward entrance/exit, that I would be at the chiropractor's after a week of driving it. I always buy new and finance through the dealer. I might consider cash this time, if I get a decent trade-in.

Replying to my own post. Had a service appt. on Wednesday and my wife tagged along as we only have one car. While we were waiting we wandered into the sales dept and asked look at the new CRV.

Next thing we know, we're buying a new 21 CRV EX. Comped us for the service, gave us what I consider to be a very good trade-in price for a 6 year old car. 0.9 % / 4 yrs. Could have paid cash, but decided to put down an additional $5K and finance at that rate.

The CRV feels familiar and yet is much improved. Turbo is really smooth and zippy. Seats are more comfortable and ride is quieter. Dual climate controls are a marriage saver. Safety features mind boggling. It may be weeks before I understand applelink, Sirius, navigation, etc.