|
|
|
| Quote: |
-The Giants had an excellent free agency period. They got Leonard Williams to sign a multi-year deal, added a big-time wide receiver in Kenny Golladay, a quality cornerback in Adoree’ Jackson, an accomplished veteran tight end in Kyle Rudolph and some other smaller pieces that could pay dividends. -If the Giants did really want Jaylen Waddle or DeVonta Smith — and they’ll never tell — that didn’t happen. They did maneuver the board impressively and come away with several players who could help make them better, both in 2021 and beyond. -Quibble about the offensive line if you want, but in my view when you look at the roster there is both front-line talent and capable depth at every position on the roster. Yes, even the offensive line, where Nate Solder, Jonotthan Harrison and Zach Fulton are all accomplished veterans. -Joe Judge is settled in now as head coach, and while it may have been abbreviated did still have the benefit of an on-field offseason program to work with players this time around. -Patrick Graham is still the defensive coordinator. Graham could have interviewed with the New York Jets and maybe elsewhere for a head-coaching gig, but chose to stay with the Giants. Players love him, he’s a creative mind and an excellent teacher. The longer the Giants can keep him the better. -This is a team that seems to have excellent locker room leadership, starting with Logan Ryan. They seem to buy in to Judge’s “team-first” mentality, and there seems to be an upbeat feel around them. -We can argue about the strengths and weaknesses of the Dallas Cowboys and the Washington Football Team, but in my view neither of those teams is clearly better than the Giants entering the season. Washington may have the better defense and Dallas the better offense, but the Giants might well be the NFC East’s most balanced team. Of course, that’s all well and good and none of it means they will win games unless Daniel Jones plays well, the offensive line blocks well and the receivers and defense are as good as we think they are. |
Of course. Of the points listed, I am confident will happen. Confident in no way means guaranteed. I’m totally aware of the “pitfalls” inherent in the confidence mindset. Neverthe less, I’m confidently confident..:)
Think he can be a top 1/3 qb if he improves in a few areas that are achievable, if not a middle of the road guy. Loves his work ethic and leadership potential
Offense should be a hecka lot more consistent, have more big play ability. Etc. oline being at least competent important
Defense looks real good at all positions, top 10 potential. And there is young developmental depth that we haven’t had for awhile
I expect special teams to bounce back, especially with JJ being there ( since that’s was his forte)
I would be disappointed without playoffs, think we should do around 10-7 area if injuries aren’t out of control. 6 1/2. weeks till training camp. Getting excited
I do quibble. That's the point.
I hope Ed is right throughout the season so no reason to quibble any longer.
Until then . . .
I am quibbling.
The reality is progress often ISN'T linear. Just look at our own history. Went from 3 wins in '83 to 9 in 84. 6 wins in '04 to 11 in '05. Same from '15 to '16.
There's no f*ing way that this years team is only 1 win better than last years team (with the inferior talent and all the shit it had to deal with).
It's the lack of stupid mistakes that gives me the most hope that the Giants are improving on all fronts.
You may argue that the Giants overpaid some veterans, but you can also argue that good players are at a premium and that they would not have signed with the Giants without a big contract.
In comment 15285681 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Much of the optimism assume players will return from injury (Barkley, Jackson etc) and that young players who have shown some flashes or growth will grow, and that all the pieces added in the offseason will gel to a strong team. All things that a reasonable to hope for, but none anything one can be confident in.
Of course. Of the points listed, I am confident will happen. Confident in no way means guaranteed. I’m totally aware of the “pitfalls” inherent in the confidence mindset. Neverthe less, I’m confidently confident..:)
I think it's pretty telling no one is capable of saying in clear terms -- the five guys penciled in right now showed enough last year, that I expect them to push this line from the bottom to the middle of the pack.
I think it's pretty telling no one is capable of saying in clear terms -- the five guys penciled in right now showed enough last year, that I expect them to push this line from the bottom to the middle of the pack.
Perhaps, only the people in the buikding have a much truer read on what they have, notwithstanding that nothing is a sure thing..We’ll get a better fans’ read once the season gets underway, imv.
I’m observing there are times the improvement in talent is so obvious, even us less informed fans and writers can see it.
For instance it would take a real fool to doubt the Giants haven’t greatly improved the WR group. The improvement to the line isn’t in that arena.
The reality is progress often ISN'T linear. Just look at our own history. Went from 3 wins in '83 to 9 in 84. 6 wins in '04 to 11 in '05. Same from '15 to '16.
There's no f*ing way that this years team is only 1 win better than last years team (with the inferior talent and all the shit it had to deal with).
Yes 7 wins is optimistic for me. Here's the combination of 3 reasons not just 1 specific.
1--- We used to hear in past years if the team had a better record than the prior year the comment was "they improved." A 7-10 record is an improvement.
2---This past year we were in a conference that was historically bad. Not just bad but historically bad. SO the team would have to play better in order to achieve the same 7 wins yet have a better overall improved winning %.
3-- Kudos to "Trader Dave Gettleman" for setting the Giants up for 2022. With 10 draft picks he set the team up very good for 2022. And even if Jones were to fail he is position to make a move for another QB.
Overall if they go 7-10 team is probably still going to be better overall with a big chance for a big jump in 2022. That's not "optimistic?"
So in summary - how can I not see optimism if that 1- we're going ot have a better win %, along with playign over better quality football, while having a much stronger outlook - not just insignificant outlook- but much stronger for 2022?
7-10 would be enough to force a change at GM and would be a setback for Judge.
7-10 would be enough to force a change at GM and would be a setback for Judge.
Agreed. My optimism extends to 10-11 wins in a 17 game schedule. I’d be very disappointed with 7 UNLESS we were truly ravaged by injuries.
7-10 would be enough to force a change at GM and would be a setback for Judge.
They're gambling that the OL is better than shown and internal coaching was the problem.
If the OL plays as well as it did last year, they're not going to be much better. This is a gamble the Giants have flat out lost for the past several years.
If the OL plays as well as it did last year, they're not going to be much better. This is a gamble the Giants have flat out lost for the past several years.
It's a bigger bet in my view. They're betting after downgrading the veteran talent and adding a position coach with no NFL experience, 2 young players will replicate their success and 3 young players will blossom.
The practical improbability is pretty clear. If this works out, we should all get in line to carry Judge around on a thrown.
Quote:
If the OL plays as well as it did last year, they're not going to be much better. This is a gamble the Giants have flat out lost for the past several years.
It's a bigger bet in my view. They're betting after downgrading the veteran talent and adding a position coach with no NFL experience, 2 young players will replicate their success and 3 young players will blossom.
The practical improbability is pretty clear. If this works out, we should all get in line to carry Judge around on a thrown.
Ahh Chickenshit.
This group faced an impossible situation last year. people discount the problems that no preseason provoked and note that every team missed preseason. But the Giants had players who were new at every position with a new coahing staff and systems. They were still learning each ohter's names.
It's reasonable to assume that Solder has it act together after almost losing a child. What team has a back up at tackle that is in his class. The starting tackles could be (should be>) dominant.
I go along with the Skinner film reviews and Gates right now is a dominant center.
Saquons return helps the line enormously. The better receivers helps pass protection, because frankly no one could get separation last year.
A "real" tight end helps in the run blocking.
But just the continuity in a group so dependent on continuity means quantum improvement.
I'm not a Shane Lemiux (sp?) fan. I don't see how a pumped up small 300 lb. that can only press 24 x's can go into the trenches against monsters like our Dek Lawrence who weigh 340 and bench 36 x's. But I don't know what I'm talking about and the same coaching staff who located and develope a free agent for the critical center position have credentials.
"Middle of the pack"???, my bleeding asskmenoquestions.
Continuity, coaching and Collective talent (the critical C's) will make this a Cleary Competent Collection.
Quote:
IMO. The Giants did not spend the money they spent to squeeze out one more win.
7-10 would be enough to force a change at GM and would be a setback for Judge.
They're gambling that the OL is better than shown and internal coaching was the problem.
If the OL plays as well as it did last year, they're not going to be much better. This is a gamble the Giants have flat out lost for the past several years.
Correct, and it is the biggest sore spot remaining on paper.
Gates is a dominant Center.
So many well thought out OL comments to choose from.
I think the more likely issue is his body is betraying him and he's getting up there in age. I think he's a bad football player at this point. Maybe the year off rejuvenated him.
Gates is a dominant Center.
So many well thought out OL comments to choose from.
Solder hasn't played one complete good season for this team. Whatever he was in New England, he isn't that here. He's had good games and good stretches.
Gates, yeah, no complaints. The OL is as good as it's weakest part. Gates being really good last year didn't cover up for the rest of the unit. Nothing does. You need 5 solid players, not 1 or two.
Quote:
IMO. The Giants did not spend the money they spent to squeeze out one more win.
7-10 would be enough to force a change at GM and would be a setback for Judge.
They're gambling that the OL is better than shown and internal coaching was the problem.
I think "internal coaching" (Columbo) was only a part of the problem.
You can say "they're gambling", but I think they're expecting a young OL (that includes a high 1st rd pick, a 2nd, a 3rd and possibly a gem of an UDFA), that had no OTAs, largely virtual training camp and no preseason games in 2020, will develop, given a normal offseason, good coaching, player development and some continuity.
If you look at the 2nd half of last season and you take out the 2 games when DJ was severely hobbled (and prolly shouldn't have been playing), and you add a normal offseason, good coaching, etc., there's reason for optimism for those who are open to it.
If you look at the 2nd half of last season and you take out the 2 games when DJ was severely hobbled (and prolly shouldn't have been playing), and you add a normal offseason, good coaching, etc., there's reason for optimism for those who are open to it.
It's just a pragmatic view. I'm not closed to optimism, but optimism isn't a plan in and of itself. We can rattle off a list of NFL players in history who didn't simply get better just because it's what young players are expected to do. Player development is not so predictable.
They have the inside view and the only decision that matters, so all we can do is watch, but we've seen this movie before and it's flopped before.
But there was a LOT more to the equation last year than "an internal coaching problem" (which appeared to be addressed midway through the season).
The OL (along with DJ) had a long list of shit going against it last year. The type of shit no other team in the league (as far as I know), had going against it. Sure, other teams dealt w/ covid, lack of OTAs and preseason, but no other team went through that with a new coaching staff, new offense, 2nd yr QB, a rookie LT, C who never played C, crappy WR corps, etc., etc.
Many on BBI thought we were screwed because we didn't draft a Center last year. It turned out JJ, DG, et al., knew better.
To each their own. Time will tell.
Quote:
is linear. Someone here even said they were being optimistic by predicting 7 wins this year. That's optimistic?
The reality is progress often ISN'T linear. Just look at our own history. Went from 3 wins in '83 to 9 in 84. 6 wins in '04 to 11 in '05. Same from '15 to '16.
There's no f*ing way that this years team is only 1 win better than last years team (with the inferior talent and all the shit it had to deal with).
Yes 7 wins is optimistic for me. Here's the combination of 3 reasons not just 1 specific.
1--- We used to hear in past years if the team had a better record than the prior year the comment was "they improved." A 7-10 record is an improvement.
2---This past year we were in a conference that was historically bad. Not just bad but historically bad. SO the team would have to play better in order to achieve the same 7 wins yet have a better overall improved winning %.
3-- Kudos to "Trader Dave Gettleman" for setting the Giants up for 2022. With 10 draft picks he set the team up very good for 2022. And even if Jones were to fail he is position to make a move for another QB.
Overall if they go 7-10 team is probably still going to be better overall with a big chance for a big jump in 2022. That's not "optimistic?"
So in summary - how can I not see optimism if that 1- we're going ot have a better win %, along with playign over better quality football, while having a much stronger outlook - not just insignificant outlook- but much stronger for 2022?
The talent upgrade in the off season combined with a full year of development under JJ and all you come up with is one more win in a 17 game schedule. No its not optimistic. If you really thought about this and looked at last year's games you would realize we were in every game except for maybe 2 not to mention blowing at least 3 games at the end including Philly and Dallas. We easily could have won 8/9 games last year with less talent than this team and playing without SB. Anything short of 9/10 wins would be a big disappointment.
2. Eliminate the mistakes that in the past have hurt them so severely. The Giants for too long have been the Murphy's Law of Mistakes team. Any error they make results in the worst possible outcome that could occur.
3. Stay as healthy as possible. This one is luck but if it happens, and the two above do....playoffs are very possible.
Quote:
In comment 15285778 Dr. D said:
Quote:
The talent upgrade in the off season combined with a full year of development under JJ and all you come up with is one more win in a 17 game schedule. No its not optimistic. If you really thought about this and looked at last year's games you would realize we were in every game except for maybe 2 not to mention blowing at least 3 games at the end including Philly and Dallas. We easily could have won 8/9 games last year with less talent than this team and playing without SB. Anything short of 9/10 wins would be a big disappointment.
1-- When you speak of "talent" I have heard this so often before. OFC some fans are always going to overrate their team's "talent."
2--- While you speak of "development" - other teams develop too. Why is it that the Giants players are going to develop more AND enough for winning football and not others? Because they are among the youngest? Who’s to say it's going to be linear? Of course many Giants fans think so - and it will be THEIR TEAM and NOT others. And what about teams that were decimated by injury last year? For example, Dallas? While I expect Giants to be better than Philly - Philly was wiped out last year by injuries too.
In terms of Philly - look at these threads prior to the draft- many wanted Smith. After we got Toney see how the threads changed quite a bit a lot of people popping up saying actually Toney was close to Smith etc. All I know is our resident expert - SY had Toney ranked as the 14th best WR. Yet the Giants fans that we are - we're going to overlook that, right? And that's when we throw the word "talent" around. Yet SY threw a phrase around to paraphrase in describing Toney as "limited ceiling." If Toney isn't so hot then how much "talent" is their at WR?
3-- When you make mention of "if I really thought about this." I did. I recognize that some Giants fans are going to overrate their team also. When you speak of "closeness" of the games - I think it completely irrelevant. The object of the game is to win. Not to be close. Bill Parcells comments have always stuck with me that you are what your record says you are. IMO the rest is just us Giants fans expressing our own bias.
4-- In regards to your comment "we could have easily won . . ." - I'm sure Dallas and Philly say the same things about last year if they were healthy. They were much more decimated by injuries than the Giants. And I'm sure WFT feels the same too.
------------
In summary for me - - and this will NEARLY ALWAYS be the case- a team that is under rebuild in which 1-- they wind up with a better record from the prior year, 2—while playing better quality football for A FULL SEASON (without too much cherry-picking) than the prior year and 3- are loaded with draft picks for the following year is the definition of being optimistic. You think they are going to win more- great. I hope you’re right and win a ton of money backing up your conviction too. I want you to win. Until then "Show me. Don't tell me." I've seen this movie before that "we have the talent."