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NFT: MLB owners changing the baseball: Pete Alonso comments

allstarjim : 6/13/2021 10:46 pm
So, I kind of wanted to see opinions on the controversial comments of Pete Alonso last week, which Will Middlebrooks of the Red Sox agreed with.

ICYMI, Pete Alonso is claiming that the owners are manipulating the baseball to benefit themselves in free agency. More specifically, with a pitching-rich free agency class this last off-season, Alonso is saying they juiced the ball last year to suppress pitching numbers, thereby hurting the pitching stats and saving them money in free agent negotiations.

And then this year, they "de-juiced" the badeball, and his claim is they have done so with the upcoming heavy hitters class in mind, featuring Trevor Story, Cory Seager, Carlos Correa, Javvy Baez, Charlie Blackmon, Michael Conforto, and others in mind, hoping to dampen their statistics.

What is your take on this? My feeling is that this is silly. While I don't think it's a good thing overall that MLB keeps tinkering with the baseball, wouldn't it be counter-productive to the owners if depressing values were the goal?

If you make driving in runs more of a premium, it would make sense that the players that do so better than their peers would be worth more, correct? Law of scarcity. If players score fewer runs, then the top hitters should benefit more.

Likewise, last year, with the juiced baseball, pitchers that still had success, even if just relative to their peers, even if overall runs allowed were up, should benefit the MOST from free agency, not the hitters, where average hitters have an easier team (even if just slightly easier) to hit more extra basehits and homeruns.

I don't see the logical connection here that Alonso apparently does. It certainly didn't hurt Bauer this offseason when he got $102 million over 3 years.

And the new baseball doesn't seem to be hurting a lot of premier hitters anyway. But ad long as everyone is playing with the same ball, then statistics are relative to all your peers, right? If I'm a .310 hitter with 40 homers in 2019 but a .290 hitter with 35 homers in 2020, but still in the top 5% in production of my positional peers, then wouldn't the fact that many players who become less relevant offensively to offensive output give me a BETTER case in free agency? Or just not matter one way or the other? It doesn't wash for me.

That said, MLB needs to just use one baseball and settle on it. I like the product this year.

Also, if MLB was motivated to help pitchers to the detriment of hitters in free agency, then why, pray tell, would there be an upcoming crackdown on the use of spider-tack and other sticky substances? That would be swept under the rug.

I further don't feel the banning of these substances are worth much chatter in terms of player safety and location. It's clear these substances help the pitchers with spin rate, movement, and generally making their pitches nastier. I'm dubious that it will do much in terms of increased hit batsmen. I think if anything it will help more pitches stay flatter and stay in the hitting zone, or balls staying out of the zone on their truer plane.

I like Pete Alonso, but this commentary strikes me as nonsensical whining by him and Middlebrooks.
Wrong motive.  
Ron from Ninerland : 6/13/2021 11:00 pm : link
Every move the owners have made is an attempt to speed up the game. The de-juicing of the baseball along with the obvious widening of the strike zone was supposed to encourage hitters to be less selective and swing earlier in the count. Maybe they also thought it would reduce pitching changes.

Obviously its not working.

Look at everything else the owners have done; the extra innings rule, the three batter minimum , pitch clocks in the minors and even limiting pick off throws in the minors.
RE: Wrong motive.  
allstarjim : 6/13/2021 11:09 pm : link
In comment 15285972 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
Every move the owners have made is an attempt to speed up the game. The de-juicing of the baseball along with the obvious widening of the strike zone was supposed to encourage hitters to be less selective and swing earlier in the count. Maybe they also thought it would reduce pitching changes.

Obviously its not working.

Look at everything else the owners have done; the extra innings rule, the three batter minimum , pitch clocks in the minors and even limiting pick off throws in the minors.


Speeding up the game seems like a more reasonable explanation. Unless MLB figures a way to specifically target upcoming premium free agents to make them underperform relative to the rest of the league, then his thesis is a pretty bizarre take.
RE: Wrong motive.  
allstarjim : 6/13/2021 11:10 pm : link
In comment 15285972 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
Every move the owners have made is an attempt to speed up the game. The de-juicing of the baseball along with the obvious widening of the strike zone was supposed to encourage hitters to be less selective and swing earlier in the count. Maybe they also thought it would reduce pitching changes.

Obviously its not working.

Look at everything else the owners have done; the extra innings rule, the three batter minimum , pitch clocks in the minors and even limiting pick off throws in the minors.


And the big one, ghost runners in extras, which I hope is soon ended.
How would the oweners know  
section125 : 6/14/2021 6:59 am : link
which hitters or pitchers are going to be effected by the ball?
Stupid lash out.

One of the baseball entities figured the change in distance this current ball goes is about 3-4 feet on a 400 foot HR. BFD.

If you make 250k baseballs for the season I'd bet that 2-3% would be off spec in either direction.
Alonso is a dolt. I'm amazed he was able to utter a sentence without  
Victor in CT : 6/14/2021 7:36 am : link
an F-bomb in it.
Alonso is a crybaby  
averagejoe : 6/14/2021 7:55 am : link
and an idiot. His comments are ridiculous. He had no problem with juiced ball when he set rookie HR record. Now his numbers don't look so good . Boo hoo .
Seems crazy  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/14/2021 8:27 am : link
What's the delta that a pitching-rich free agent class would get in a "normal" baseball state vs. what they would get if the balls were juiced across the board? Teams still want the best pitchers.

On top of that, there are still position players hitting free agency in the same year-- so that "savings" would have to be offset by an increase in pay to all the hitters who benefited by juiced balls.

Plus, I'm sure agents and front office executives are looking at multiple years of data to make its case.

So what is the present value that would be "saved"? I can't imagine it's enough for the league to constantly doctor the balls.

And, if you're an owner that spent a lot of money in 2019 to load up your pitching staff, you aren't going to stand pat while the league tries to hurt pitchers just to save the other owners a few bucks.


Do I think the league is adjusting the baseballs? Yes. Do I think it's specifically designed to manipulate free agent classes? No
RE: Alonso is a dolt. I'm amazed he was able to utter a sentence without  
Everyone Relax : 6/14/2021 8:40 am : link
In comment 15286005 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
an F-bomb in it.

Weird comment. Alonso has always been well spoken a thoughtful in press conferences. He might be off on this one but if anything he's just sticking up for the players.
Maybe I'm being naive, but I don't think there is any  
Section331 : 6/14/2021 9:17 am : link
major conspiracy going on to hurt players in FA. I think Rawlings produced a tight ball last year (either with or w/o MLB's influence), and MLB thought it gave hitters too much of an advantage, and this year is an over-correction.

That said, I wouldn't put it past MLB owners to ratfuck players if they have the chance.
Why  
pjcas18 : 6/14/2021 9:33 am : link
can't MLB stop playing with their balls?
RE: RE: Wrong motive.  
Dave in PA : 6/14/2021 9:33 am : link
In comment 15285975 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15285972 Ron from Ninerland said:


Quote:


Every move the owners have made is an attempt to speed up the game. The de-juicing of the baseball along with the obvious widening of the strike zone was supposed to encourage hitters to be less selective and swing earlier in the count. Maybe they also thought it would reduce pitching changes.

Obviously its not working.

Look at everything else the owners have done; the extra innings rule, the three batter minimum , pitch clocks in the minors and even limiting pick off throws in the minors.



And the big one, ghost runners in extras, which I hope is soon ended.
Yea this extra innings guy starting on second rule is so tacky and independent league worthy. Just make it go away
RE: RE: Alonso is a dolt. I'm amazed he was able to utter a sentence without  
KDavies : 6/14/2021 10:12 am : link
In comment 15286023 Everyone Relax said:
Quote:
In comment 15286005 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


an F-bomb in it.


Weird comment. Alonso has always been well spoken a thoughtful in press conferences. He might be off on this one but if anything he's just sticking up for the players.


You'll have to forgive him. Likely a jealous 4th place Yankees fan. At least they are better than the Orioles.
Have the owners announced or admitted that changes  
Marty in Albany : 6/14/2021 10:13 am : link
to the balls have been made or are planned?

RE: Have the owners announced or admitted that changes  
pjcas18 : 6/14/2021 10:16 am : link
In comment 15286086 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
to the balls have been made or are planned?


Yes, they admitted to adjusting the balls for 2021
RE: Have the owners announced or admitted that changes  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2021 12:24 pm : link
In comment 15286086 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
to the balls have been made or are planned?


As PJ noted, the balls are new in 2021, this part isn't a debatable, the league made changes and acknowledged so.
Other rule changes...  
x meadowlander : 6/14/2021 12:29 pm : link
...if they really want to make the game more exciting, they need to lose the pussy rule that players must drop the bat before running the basepath. Bat-wielding baserunners will increase scoring, increase viewership and the sport would STILL be less violent than American hockey.
RE: Other rule changes...  
PwndPapi : 6/14/2021 1:54 pm : link
In comment 15286172 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...if they really want to make the game more exciting, they need to lose the pussy rule that players must drop the bat before running the basepath. Bat-wielding baserunners will increase scoring, increase viewership and the sport would STILL be less violent than American hockey.


Not sure if serious.
RE: RE: Other rule changes...  
Joe Beckwith : 6/14/2021 3:48 pm : link
In comment 15286214 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15286172 x meadowlander said:


Quote:


...if they really want to make the game more exciting, they need to lose the pussy rule that players must drop the bat before running the basepath. Bat-wielding baserunners will increase scoring, increase viewership and the sport would STILL be less violent than American hockey.



Not sure if serious.


If the players actually used the bat and got caught, do they get penalized for high sticking? Or maybe butt-ending?
RE: Alonso is a dolt. I'm amazed he was able to utter a sentence without  
moespree : 6/14/2021 3:52 pm : link
In comment 15286005 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
an F-bomb in it.


I'm curious how many times you've actually heard Alonso speak, because this isn't even close to being true.
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