that every year there are solid running backs available when team makes their final cuts. So I expect there to be at least one more running back addition to the Giants roster before the start of the season.
Also based upon the solid run results from last year (averaging 110 yards per game and 4.4 yards per rush), the Giants should be able to field a decent enough running attack to keep defenses honest which should help the passing game.
You can easily argue that the Giants being able to accomplish that last year without a strong vertical passing threat really means that the team's ability to thrive offensively will depend upon their new receiving weapons instead of the running game with or without Saquon.
While I think DGs plan was to feature SBs versatility behind a strong line and a functional WR Corp to spread D, SB got injured and the other 2 areas didn’t happen. And neither did quality depth to run with the plan. Not blaming DG, who modified ‘The Plan ‘ twice in his 3 years.
That said, Judges input on player acquisition has made the team a non -single -player focus on O and made it more versatile. In the meantime the original plan to run the ball, stop the run , play good D looks to have gotten the 2 D-oriented pieces in place.
The Giants will learn to thrive W/O SB, and whenever he IS available and how much will be a bonus to the O.
I want to see him start trucking some LB'S and DB's. Watch what the guy in the video below did. When both Jim Brown and Ray Lewis are heaping praise on a RB, you know they're playing the game. And he did it at 205, whereas Saquon is almost 30 pounds heavier.
Healthy, or not, I consider continuing to try to run Saquon inside ultimately futile. Great moves, great hands and great speed, but he just doesn't like contact. Get him on the edge, and get him the ball in space and he'll contribute far more.
The guy in the podcast is right. Without Barkley..defenses are going to tee off on the pass. Barkley makes game planning for the Giants much more difficult. No Barkley probably makes getting to the playoffs unlikely for the Giants.
They couldn't last year, which is a mistake it seems they were determined not to let happen again. That is what a legit roster looks like, not dependent on any 1 player.
Recalling last year, when Barkley went down, they had no other options capable of running his zone plays (Why they kept Gallman as the #2 under those conditions is a mystery.)
Instead of turning to Gallman they started signing guys off the street who could run inside zone. When that failed (Freeman injured), they shifted to a power scheme suiting Gallman & Morris.
This year, they have a stable of solid, if unspectacular RBs. Tyrell Armstead looks like a real find.
But the should have drafted a RB right in the middle - Round 4
Yes, thank you for reminding us two months after the draft of a guy who you saw youtube highlights of. I'm sure the Giants would feel more comfortable with a 4th round pick as their contingency plan for a pro-bowl candidate instead of already tested veterans
Most here would take our 2018 offensive production again in a heartbeat if given the chance
I think most people on this board are just hoping to make the playoffs. That might do that for us, but I don't think we'll be a SB contender with an average offense.
The 2018 Giants scored 90 more points than the 2020 Giants. They were a middle of the pack offense Barkley’s rookie year, and terrible last year.
If the Giants 23 points a game next year, it will be nothing short of a miraculous turn around.
Too lazy to look it up but are you accounting for the scores the defense was responsible for? I think I remember the defense scoring like 4 time that season. Maybe the special teams did as well.
It's a damn struggle to show any interest in any of those loser seasons lol
The 2018 Giants scored 90 more points than the 2020 Giants. They were a middle of the pack offense Barkley’s rookie year, and terrible last year.
If the Giants 23 points a game next year, it will be nothing short of a miraculous turn around.
Too lazy to look it up but are you accounting for the scores the defense was responsible for? I think I remember the defense scoring like 4 time that season. Maybe the special teams did as well.
It's a damn struggle to show any interest in any of those loser seasons lol
Shurmur's ass should've been fired the second that 2018 road game ended in Philly. No bullshit. I know everyone wants to be cute about formalities and whatever but that guy sucked. Gained nothing by keeping him around after that.
Ok yeah I remember all of that now. Such a forgettable year. Saquon Barkley in the rain vs Jacksonville. Probably blocked all of that garbage out because Eagles were defending champions. May you stub your fucking toe on a 100 pound dumbbell, Matt Ryan.
the Giants can stay .500 or better while letting Saquon take his time and do it right, then slowly begin to work him in after the 1st quarter of the season, and the Giants make a playoff push with a then healthy and battle tested Saquon just hitting his stride. That would be an ideal scenario and an added dimension that could propel them in the playoffs should they get there.
The Giants didn't spend at the top of UFA WR market, use a first round pick on WR, and add a veteran tight end, not not have a materially better passing game.
The Coryell system utilizes a lot of play action, but also a lot of 4 WRR air out it looks.
The Giants have to operate an effective pass game when the run isn't working. Jones is too good of a deep ball passer, and there's too much investment in the WRs/TEs to just wilt if Barkley isn't healthy.
And yet that terrible Shurmur offense was demonstrably better than the Giants last year.
To get back to that level, the Giants need a number of things to improve.
15 offenses scored 400+ points last year, the Giants scored 280.
The difference between the Giants and the 16th ranked offense was more than 7 points a game.
I think Garrett held this offense back last year a bit - I also think Garrett is good enough he will adjust with a full off-season.
I can't tell if I'm just talking myself into this to be optimistic, though.
Garrett held it back because he had no choice. With his only big time weapon out for the season he chose clock control and mitigating risk to keep us in games.
Shurmur had a better offense because he had a monster year of Barkley to work with. I think the rest of our personnel and coaching is better now so we should be able to be a better offense even without Barkley, but I doubt we can truly excel without him in 2021.
you are going to take a hit, unless you have a backup of equal quality.
Most of the time, this notion is a no brainer.
Giants have set themselves up, hopefully, to be able to survive if he goes down. Of course, best laid plans can go astray. They didn't do so well adapting to a life without OBJ. If they had succeeded at putting together a WR corp in the last couple of years, losing SB wouldn't have been such a blow.
So, along with Jones, eyes will also be on the WR corp (and on the OL). IF the plan comes together here, loss of SB, or if he doesn't return as anything more than average, should still allow for a decent O.
The 2019 Giants were also markedly better on offense than 2020, and had a less than monster year from Barkley. And surprisingly looked OK without Beckham.
Shurmur did pretty well with what he had. He's a good offensive coordinator and a really good quarterback coach.
He was a lousy head coach, but I give him credit for cobbling together an average offense, given the QB and o-line situations.
And yet that terrible Shurmur offense was demonstrably better than the Giants last year.
To get back to that level, the Giants need a number of things to improve.
15 offenses scored 400+ points last year, the Giants scored 280.
The difference between the Giants and the 16th ranked offense was more than 7 points a game.
I think Garrett held this offense back last year a bit - I also think Garrett is good enough he will adjust with a full off-season.
I can't tell if I'm just talking myself into this to be optimistic, though.
Garrett held it back because he had no choice. With his only big time weapon out for the season he chose clock control and mitigating risk to keep us in games.
Shurmur had a better offense because he had a monster year of Barkley to work with. I think the rest of our personnel and coaching is better now so we should be able to be a better offense even without Barkley, but I doubt we can truly excel without him in 2021.
That plan failed miserably because we were tied for 11th for most turnovers and had the 7th least TOP. I think Shurmur deserves more credit than he's given for the offense - he used what Jones is good at much more often than Garrett does.
The games Jones and the offense had in 2019 that were noteworthy were against all terrible teams, teams who picked ahead or near the Giants the following draft. Once they started meeting with better teams on the schedule, the offense would score a lone touchdown and that was it. Arizona, Minnesota, New England, Green Bay. All the offense could chalk up in those games were one touchdown for the day/night.
Again, still, anyone could be better than the Giants offense in 2020. Well, except the 2020 Jets.
They were piss poor as well. Only reason why the Giants could collect six wins last season is because the defense was that good. If not... Maybe 1-15?
2019 Giants with all their starters couldn't even beat the Eagles 5th string McDonald's squad in week 17 of that year. So fucking pathetic lol quit trying to pretend that any of the players/coaches we we have over the years are any good. That's why we see literally win four or five games in a season.
Even peak Saquon won't transform us if the line isn't good enough and the passing game (throwing OR receiving) doesn't move the football.
But if we have an improved line, improved passing game, and a healthy Saquon by November 1, we will be fun to watch.
I can’t wait for people to start pressing the panic button two weeks into the season. I think the rational position is that we have a bunch of new faces starting/getting significant reps with our best player coming off a major injury where the mental hurdle is the biggest one to overcome. The difference between last year and this year is they are good enough to actually win some game while the offense comes together.
If the Giants are averaging less than 200 YPG in the air (like last year), and Barkley (reasonably) starts off slow or misses time -- I can see the Giants getting in a big hole like last year.
If the Giants can't move the ball and score more points in the passing game, it'll be a hell of a disappointment.
the Giants can stay .500 or better while letting Saquon take his time and do it right, then slowly begin to work him in after the 1st quarter of the season, and the Giants make a playoff push with a then healthy and battle tested Saquon just hitting his stride. That would be an ideal scenario and an added dimension that could propel them in the playoffs should they get there.
I think this scenario would be a fan's dream. It is now my dream. Momentum going into the playoffs is one thing the NYG have done a good job of over the years.
Also based upon the solid run results from last year (averaging 110 yards per game and 4.4 yards per rush), the Giants should be able to field a decent enough running attack to keep defenses honest which should help the passing game.
You can easily argue that the Giants being able to accomplish that last year without a strong vertical passing threat really means that the team's ability to thrive offensively will depend upon their new receiving weapons instead of the running game with or without Saquon.
That said, Judges input on player acquisition has made the team a non -single -player focus on O and made it more versatile. In the meantime the original plan to run the ball, stop the run , play good D looks to have gotten the 2 D-oriented pieces in place.
The Giants will learn to thrive W/O SB, and whenever he IS available and how much will be a bonus to the O.
Healthy, or not, I consider continuing to try to run Saquon inside ultimately futile. Great moves, great hands and great speed, but he just doesn't like contact. Get him on the edge, and get him the ball in space and he'll contribute far more.
A 205 pound force of nature. - ( New Window )
Recalling last year, when Barkley went down, they had no other options capable of running his zone plays (Why they kept Gallman as the #2 under those conditions is a mystery.)
Instead of turning to Gallman they started signing guys off the street who could run inside zone. When that failed (Freeman injured), they shifted to a power scheme suiting Gallman & Morris.
This year, they have a stable of solid, if unspectacular RBs. Tyrell Armstead looks like a real find.
But the should have drafted a RB right in the middle - Round 4
Instead, they drafted LB/Edge Elerson Smith at #116
The Panthers took Oklahoma St.'s RB Chuba Hubbard at 126th, a very high quality football player in 33 games - 36 TDs, 5.9 yds/game
Barkley is also a great receiving RB, far better than most and better than anyone we have on the roster now.
If Barkley is limited, hurt, pedestrian and therefore defenses don't need to focus on him the most it changes our offense and how we attack.
I believe he will be fine:
250-1300-10 (over 5.0 ypc)
70-700-5 receiving with a few HR receptions.
Simply put, we can't thrive consistently without our best offensive weapon after D. Jones (who will be very good).
Most here would take our 2018 offensive production again in a heartbeat if given the chance
But the should have drafted a RB right in the middle - Round 4
Yes, thank you for reminding us two months after the draft of a guy who you saw youtube highlights of. I'm sure the Giants would feel more comfortable with a 4th round pick as their contingency plan for a pro-bowl candidate instead of already tested veterans
If the Giants 23 points a game next year, it will be nothing short of a miraculous turn around.
Start the season with the following presumption - he will NOT be available for the entire year ....
IF (big if) we do make it, only THEN if he's right that is the time to make the move. That would be a shock to apply to our opponents.
Quote:
Our offense hasn't thrived with him yet either.
Most here would take our 2018 offensive production again in a heartbeat if given the chance
I think most people on this board are just hoping to make the playoffs. That might do that for us, but I don't think we'll be a SB contender with an average offense.
+1
If the Giants 23 points a game next year, it will be nothing short of a miraculous turn around.
Too lazy to look it up but are you accounting for the scores the defense was responsible for? I think I remember the defense scoring like 4 time that season. Maybe the special teams did as well.
It's a damn struggle to show any interest in any of those loser seasons lol
Quote:
The 2018 Giants scored 90 more points than the 2020 Giants. They were a middle of the pack offense Barkley’s rookie year, and terrible last year.
If the Giants 23 points a game next year, it will be nothing short of a miraculous turn around.
Too lazy to look it up but are you accounting for the scores the defense was responsible for? I think I remember the defense scoring like 4 time that season. Maybe the special teams did as well.
It's a damn struggle to show any interest in any of those loser seasons lol
It was three; two pick sixes by Ogletree and another by Curtis Riley.
2018 New York Giants Statistics & Players - ( New Window )
To get back to that level, the Giants need a number of things to improve.
15 offenses scored 400+ points last year, the Giants scored 280.
The difference between the Giants and the 16th ranked offense was more than 7 points a game.
To get back to that level, the Giants need a number of things to improve.
15 offenses scored 400+ points last year, the Giants scored 280.
The difference between the Giants and the 16th ranked offense was more than 7 points a game.
I think Garrett held this offense back last year a bit - I also think Garrett is good enough he will adjust with a full off-season.
I can't tell if I'm just talking myself into this to be optimistic, though.
Bad injuries. Bad coaching. Bad drafting. Bad players. Bad luck. Bad everything.
I agree with this 100%. And I love the way it was said. Flat, absolute, no sneer nor snark. Probably, your best post ever.
The Coryell system utilizes a lot of play action, but also a lot of 4 WRR air out it looks.
The Giants have to operate an effective pass game when the run isn't working. Jones is too good of a deep ball passer, and there's too much investment in the WRs/TEs to just wilt if Barkley isn't healthy.
Quote:
And yet that terrible Shurmur offense was demonstrably better than the Giants last year.
To get back to that level, the Giants need a number of things to improve.
15 offenses scored 400+ points last year, the Giants scored 280.
The difference between the Giants and the 16th ranked offense was more than 7 points a game.
I think Garrett held this offense back last year a bit - I also think Garrett is good enough he will adjust with a full off-season.
I can't tell if I'm just talking myself into this to be optimistic, though.
Garrett held it back because he had no choice. With his only big time weapon out for the season he chose clock control and mitigating risk to keep us in games.
Shurmur had a better offense because he had a monster year of Barkley to work with. I think the rest of our personnel and coaching is better now so we should be able to be a better offense even without Barkley, but I doubt we can truly excel without him in 2021.
Most of the time, this notion is a no brainer.
Giants have set themselves up, hopefully, to be able to survive if he goes down. Of course, best laid plans can go astray. They didn't do so well adapting to a life without OBJ. If they had succeeded at putting together a WR corp in the last couple of years, losing SB wouldn't have been such a blow.
So, along with Jones, eyes will also be on the WR corp (and on the OL). IF the plan comes together here, loss of SB, or if he doesn't return as anything more than average, should still allow for a decent O.
Shurmur did pretty well with what he had. He's a good offensive coordinator and a really good quarterback coach.
He was a lousy head coach, but I give him credit for cobbling together an average offense, given the QB and o-line situations.
Quote:
In comment 15286507 christian said:
Quote:
And yet that terrible Shurmur offense was demonstrably better than the Giants last year.
To get back to that level, the Giants need a number of things to improve.
15 offenses scored 400+ points last year, the Giants scored 280.
The difference between the Giants and the 16th ranked offense was more than 7 points a game.
I think Garrett held this offense back last year a bit - I also think Garrett is good enough he will adjust with a full off-season.
I can't tell if I'm just talking myself into this to be optimistic, though.
Garrett held it back because he had no choice. With his only big time weapon out for the season he chose clock control and mitigating risk to keep us in games.
Shurmur had a better offense because he had a monster year of Barkley to work with. I think the rest of our personnel and coaching is better now so we should be able to be a better offense even without Barkley, but I doubt we can truly excel without him in 2021.
That plan failed miserably because we were tied for 11th for most turnovers and had the 7th least TOP. I think Shurmur deserves more credit than he's given for the offense - he used what Jones is good at much more often than Garrett does.
But if we have an improved line, improved passing game, and a healthy Saquon by November 1, we will be fun to watch.
Again, still, anyone could be better than the Giants offense in 2020. Well, except the 2020 Jets.
They were piss poor as well. Only reason why the Giants could collect six wins last season is because the defense was that good. If not... Maybe 1-15?
2019 Giants with all their starters couldn't even beat the Eagles 5th string McDonald's squad in week 17 of that year. So fucking pathetic lol quit trying to pretend that any of the players/coaches we we have over the years are any good. That's why we see literally win four or five games in a season.
This post wad the correct one.
Just fewer words.
But if we have an improved line, improved passing game, and a healthy Saquon by November 1, we will be fun to watch.
I can’t wait for people to start pressing the panic button two weeks into the season. I think the rational position is that we have a bunch of new faces starting/getting significant reps with our best player coming off a major injury where the mental hurdle is the biggest one to overcome. The difference between last year and this year is they are good enough to actually win some game while the offense comes together.
If the Giants can't move the ball and score more points in the passing game, it'll be a hell of a disappointment.
I think this scenario would be a fan's dream. It is now my dream. Momentum going into the playoffs is one thing the NYG have done a good job of over the years.