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NFT: UFO's

MartyGlickman : 6/15/2021 3:37 pm
With all the recent news surrounding UFO sightings (on radar by military aircraft, ships, pilot visuals) not to mention statements by high level government officials around the world, as well as astronauts, I cannot believe the relative lack of attention this is getting in the media. The implications of these events are potentially world changing.
Needless to say, I am fascinated and exited about the possibilities. So what are these vehicles? My list of possibilities are the following; would love to hear anyone else's ideas on this.....
(1) Hoax perpetrated on government/military
(2) Hoax perpetrated by U.S. Govt.
(3) U.S. technology.
(4) Foreign Govt. technology.
(5) Private Industry technology.
(6) Alien technology.

What else could it be?

Agreed RE: lack of interest  
mittenedman : 6/15/2021 3:44 pm : link
I'm constantly baffled by that. This would easily be the most interesting thing that could possibly be going on, on this planet.

And nobody cares.
...  
jrdinsc : 6/15/2021 3:46 pm : link
If the universe is truly infinite, then intelligent life existing somewhere else is pretty much a sure thing. Whether or not any of that intelligent life has reached Earth yet, I don't have a clue.



U.S. technology  
allstarjim : 6/15/2021 3:55 pm : link
that is so classified that high ranking people in our government aren't privy to...is a possibility. Like, I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if this info was kept from the last two PRESIDENTS.

If it's not us, I suspect it's not from our planet. And...the argument against it being us is these UAPs have not avoided other U.S. military assets that have been conducting exercises and/or operations. That seems like something military and intelligence leaders wouldn't do with deeply classified assets, I'm guessing.
These things have been around for 70 years imo  
kelsto811 : 6/15/2021 3:57 pm : link
I know a lot of people don't agree with that but I've followed this topic for quite a long time. Lue Elizondo is the guy to follow and start watching all of his interviews right now in my opinion. Very important to how this all will work out.
They should be investigating the sea more than the air  
moespree : 6/15/2021 3:57 pm : link
I personally know more than one person stationed on different ships who have told me about strange lights and craft following them and then disappearing into the ocean. Yes, into the ocean.

A friend of mine has told me more than once we're barking up the wrong tree thinking whatever it is, is coming from space.
The report from the UAP Task Force under DoD will state  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 6/15/2021 4:04 pm : link
1) The phenomenon is real. Real craft. Not misidentified lights, or planets or errors in radar.
2) The crafts observed and recorded for the past 70 years + are not part of any known U.S. military program. They are also not part of any dark U.S. military program.

There are two possible options here.

1) These craft are from our known adversaries, China or Russia.

2) These craft are from somewhere else.

These craft have demonstrated the capability of dropping from 80,000 feet to sea level in less than a second. They have shown instantaneous acceleration. They break the sound barrier without sonic booms. They can travel from air to water to air without damage. They can accelerate at hundreds of miles an hour and stop instantaneously and can make right angle turns without slowing down. These craft sustain g forces in the thousands with out apparent damage. These craft have no observable flight surfaces, no obvious source of propulsion, no heat blooms, no exhaust. Lastly, these craft have been breaching U.S. military airspace for seven plus decades with impunity. We can't stop them. We don't even know what they are. We do know they aren't ours.

So the question really becomes have China or Russia developed technology which is estimated to be at least 1,000 years ahead of the most advanced U.S. technology? Side note - this would be the single biggest intelligence failure in the history of the country. Or, are these craft from somewhere else.

Which seems the most logical to you?
Fascinated by the topic  
mattlawson : 6/15/2021 4:07 pm : link
I never thought it would get this much main stream press during my lifetime but I’m glad that it’s happening, I don’t think anyone is ever going to give the crowd full disclosure on what has been happening, I don’t think the government can actually come out and say what they’ve known do you to how they’ve handled the topic over the years and the disinformation tactics they’ve used that have ruined peoples lives and careers. Mirage Men certainly comes to kind.

I have no doubt these phenomena are real, what it is I’m not exactly sure and is kind of crazy to think about, it may not be ‘aliens’ in the conventional sense.

To summarize where we are in clear terms I think it’s really beneficial:
1- The Pentagon has said the evidence presented is authentic
2- a task force report is due by the end of the month
3- The Pentagon has also confirmed that the phenomena implicated in the media published all over the world is not United States technology, secret or otherwise
4 - lue Elizondo former pentagon official assigned to deal with aerial threats and UFOs has come out and said It’s not ours, it’s not foreign adversarial technology either
5 - that leaves it up to us what we think it is

I think it’s a higher consciousness of some kind meddling in our lives but I’m not sure why. There may not be a purpose, it could all be for fun.

They could’ve been here the whole time, in our atmosphere, in our oceans who knows.

The government has without question covered up what they know and do not know and I think that’s the big secret they do not want us to know just how little they know about these incursions around our military weaponry and nuclear facilities, which has a massive track record and national security implications going back decades. There is no doubt this phenomenon is interested in our nuclear weapons to the point where operations to essentially lure in UFO craft have been undertaken. Our entire nuclear naval fleet is telling you they see these things on a daily basis over periods of years on both coasts. They have been captured optically, on video, and on radar above and under the oceans. And the technology lead required to do what these things are doing is between 50 and 1000 years ahead, beyond next generation technology.

In short, it ain’t us. It ain’t China. It ain’t Russia - they too for decades have experienced the same phenomena.

NASA is finally going to study it after decades of silence, denial, and ridicule. The stigma is slowly going away.

About lures- As an avid fisherman I went the other day and I got to thinking what a lure must look like to a fish. It mimics things that are in their environment, but it is made by an entire world full of species that they have no clue about - The lure is designed to attract the attention and elicit a response. Sometimes the lure is designed to be natural, other times metallic and shiny it’s erratic behavior and reflective properties eliciting the response.

The lure and the fisherman is not perfect, if you hit a snag or are you tie a poor knot the lure comes undone. If you don’t present the lure correctly it doesn’t work. Essentially you have a marvel of the machine age tied to a piece of monofilament so it looks invisible, but it’s actually connected to a fairly rudimentary tool from our perspective. Essentially a stick and a string. What it must be like for fish to swim by these foreign objects. If they could think like we do what would they be thinking, what would they be thinking about the lures that line the stream beds and lakes and oceans over the world. In a sense I think we are coming to terms with just what this means right now in our lifetimes and I can’t believe it’s actually happening.

I never thought this topic would reach the level of legitimacy that it has. The ride alone has been amazing. I hope the destination and the outcome is equally were warning and I hope humans as a species come together and evolve positively from it
Mattlawson  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 6/15/2021 4:09 pm : link
your last two paragraphs are beautiful.
Matt  
MartyGlickman : 6/15/2021 4:22 pm : link
Good post. I am hoping for our distant neighbors to provide some perspective to we monkeys. It would be mind boggling to an outside observer as to how an intelligent species such as we, with so much potential, manage to work against each other because of emotions, superstitions and greed. As John Lennon said..."Imagine"....
RE: Mattlawson  
montanagiant : 6/15/2021 4:27 pm : link
In comment 15286894 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
your last two paragraphs are beautiful.


I concur...Great analogy
......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 6/15/2021 4:36 pm : link
Matt,

Awesome post.

I actually had a similar thought last year. I had a mouse problem outside my house due to all kinds of deforestation/construction going on in the area.

I would catch them live in a 5 gallon bucket and release them in a field.

Reading up on it - it was recommended releasing mice at least a few miles away, as any closer and they potentially find their way back.

To a mouse, the thought of the distance between say New York City and Baltimore would be beyond comprehension. To us, its a mere couple of hours in a car.

We think of these galactic distances in the framework of our own understanding. If a lifeform were to have a few thousand (maybe million) years of evolution on us - who knows what technology comes with it
RE: Mirage Men  
BocaGene : 6/15/2021 4:36 pm : link
I just found and watched it last night! I forwarded to my brother, who is an avid Ufologist.

MattLawson  
jpkmets : 6/15/2021 4:44 pm : link
What a thought provoking post. I’m going to watch Mirage Men now. I find the growing movement of legitimate discussion of UAP’s fascinating.
RE: ......  
BamaBlue : 6/15/2021 4:53 pm : link
In comment 15286917 CoughlinHandsonHips said:
Quote:

We think of these galactic distances in the framework of our own understanding. If a lifeform were to have a few thousand (maybe million) years of evolution on us - who knows what technology comes with it


The same can be said of our understanding of 'time'. Einstein postulated that time was an illusion. His proof of time dilation showed the 'relative' aspects of time. In other words, there're are a lot of things we don't comprehend... perhaps the 'laws' of physics are merely suggestions.
I am still very  
Big Al : 6/15/2021 4:55 pm : link
doubtful of any of the things but the opening post asked what else it could be other than the six things listed. How about

(7) Time traveling historians from the distant future.

I don’t believe that either.

I tend to believe it is some sort of optics thing but who the hell knows.

Extraordinary Claims ...  
Trainmaster : 6/15/2021 4:56 pm : link
Quote:
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” was a phrase made popular by Carl Sagan who reworded Laplace's principle, which says that “the weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness”


I agree that IF an extraterrestrial civilization has been visiting the Earth for decades without wiping us out, that fact would be truly remarkable. However, I have a really hard time believing such an advanced civilization capable of travel between the stars would be unable to avoid detection.

These observations being of human (not necessarily US) origin are much more plausible and therefore very much less interesting to me; almost a "nothing burger" IMHO.

Until there is irrefutable evidence provided, this just isn't worth much time discussing (see Big Foot, Loch Ness Monster etc.)

Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence: The Case of Non-Local Perception, a Classical and Bayesian Review of Evidences - ( New Window )
I love the human arrogance on display. Calling us intelligent  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/15/2021 5:12 pm : link
creatures. If it’s aliens do you think they actually look at us that way? Yeah right. We don’t look at ants and think wow what intelligent creatures. We are a curiosity at best and only because life is so rare (that we know) in universe. Kind of reminds me of all the alien movies where we somehow win.

Anyway, that speaks to Trainmasters point. If they were smart enough to get here, they’d almost certainly be smart enough to hide their detection, because clearly that’s what they are trying to do.

As far as the sea stuff goes, I was in Navy and stood a fuckton of watch. People see all sorts of shit out there, it isn’t reliable. I’ve had an obsession with aliens since I’ve been a kid, but extraordinary proof requires extraordinary evidence. All we have is the pentagon coming forward and being maybe. There could be a ton of political reasons for doing so, namely funding. With high res cameras now in everyone’s hand you think you’d have something better than some blurry big foot footage
RE: Extraordinary Claims ...  
81_Great_Dane : 6/15/2021 5:15 pm : link
In comment 15286928 Trainmaster said:
Quote:


Quote:


“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” was a phrase made popular by Carl Sagan who reworded Laplace's principle, which says that “the weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness”



I agree that IF an extraterrestrial civilization has been visiting the Earth for decades without wiping us out, that fact would be truly remarkable. However, I have a really hard time believing such an advanced civilization capable of travel between the stars would be unable to avoid detection.

These observations being of human (not necessarily US) origin are much more plausible and therefore very much less interesting to me; almost a "nothing burger" IMHO.

Until there is irrefutable evidence provided, this just isn't worth much time discussing (see Big Foot, Loch Ness Monster etc.) Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence: The Case of Non-Local Perception, a Classical and Bayesian Review of Evidences - ( New Window )
Leaving aside the "alien technology" explanations, the fact that these things seem to be real (whatever they are) and beyond the capability of any publicly known aviation technology makes this a fascinating story. Something is definitely up. Alien tech is among the least-likely explanations but none of the alternatives seem very likely, either. So something beyond our everyday experience seems involved.
Very perplexing  
VTChuck : 6/15/2021 5:24 pm : link
I'm leaning towards time-traveling "humans" from the future.

The "aliens" described by witnesses are humanoid in appearance.... hard to believe that alien life forms would evolve in similar bipedal primate forms.

Or perhaps, worm-holes or parallel dimensions?

I observed a UFO in the 60's, when I was a teenager. The experience remains vivid to this day. It was not conventional aircraft, astronomical object, swamp gas, birds, ball lightning or any other condescending B.S. explanation.
RE: I am still very  
moze1021 : 6/15/2021 5:24 pm : link
In comment 15286926 Big Al said:
Quote:
doubtful of any of the things but the opening post asked what else it could be other than the six things listed. How about

(7) Time traveling historians from the distant future.

I don’t believe that either.

I tend to believe it is some sort of optics thing but who the hell knows.


The other possibility is that it's some remnant of the code in our simulation..or just a "shiny object" in the simulation if we stick with that previous analogy...

so

(8) Further evidence of Simulation Theory
RE: Extraordinary Claims ...  
montanagiant : 6/15/2021 5:32 pm : link
In comment 15286928 Trainmaster said:
Quote:


Quote:


“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” was a phrase made popular by Carl Sagan who reworded Laplace's principle, which says that “the weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness”



I agree that IF an extraterrestrial civilization has been visiting the Earth for decades without wiping us out, that fact would be truly remarkable. However, I have a really hard time believing such an advanced civilization capable of travel between the stars would be unable to avoid detection.

These observations being of human (not necessarily US) origin are much more plausible and therefore very much less interesting to me; almost a "nothing burger" IMHO.

Until there is irrefutable evidence provided, this just isn't worth much time discussing (see Big Foot, Loch Ness Monster etc.) Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence: The Case of Non-Local Perception, a Classical and Bayesian Review of Evidences - ( New Window )

I understand this point of view but that has to overlook the fact that they may very well have advanced technologies we can't even comprehend.
Mirage Men was really interesting  
jpkmets : 6/15/2021 7:18 pm : link
Though Richard Doty’s status as an elite liar makes me wonder what parts of his interviews for this are disinformation.

Interesting as hell, though. Got to wonder what secrets are worth such elaborate disinformation as GARNET and MJ12 documents.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/15/2021 7:20 pm : link
I used to roll my eyes at people talking about UFOs, but not anymore. I have done a complete 180...I think they're legit & I don't think they're man made.
I believe  
compton : 6/15/2021 7:32 pm : link
they are either optical abnormalities, radar artifacts or balloons.
RE: Mattlawson  
mattlawson : 6/15/2021 7:32 pm : link
In comment 15286894 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
your last two paragraphs are beautiful.



Thanks. I was inspired by the thought while on the river fly fishing and when I got back in service and texted everyone I knew that fished about why they did so.

One person responded that they view fishing for Brook trout like encountering an alien - it was a great synchronicity
RE: ... they may very well have advanced technologies ...  
Trainmaster : 6/15/2021 7:36 pm : link
... we can't even comprehend.

And yet they can't escape detection by our crude (likely by their standards) technologies?

I think if they wanted to be seen, we'd see them openly.

I think if they didn't want to be seen, we'd never see them.

This "we catch intriguing glimpses of them", doesn't make any sense to me IF these "UFOs" are actually extraterrestrials.

RE: I am still very  
mattlawson : 6/15/2021 7:43 pm : link
In comment 15286926 Big Al said:
Quote:
doubtful of any of the things but the opening post asked what else it could be other than the six things listed. How about

(7) Time traveling historians from the distant future.

I don’t believe that either.

I tend to believe it is some sort of optics thing but who the hell knows.



It could be a combination of things - rendelsheim forest incident comes to mind. The communication was essentially “we are you” and if you believe the binary code piece of the story that means time travelers.

If you think the binary code is bullshit - fine. “We are you” though could still be true. They could have helped our evolution along if they’ve been here … reminds me of the Bob lazar briefings he’s claimed to have read. Kindof makes some sense either way
RE: RE: ... they may very well have advanced technologies ...  
mattlawson : 6/15/2021 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15287022 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
... we can't even comprehend.

And yet they can't escape detection by our crude (likely by their standards) technologies?

I think if they wanted to be seen, we'd see them openly.

I think if they didn't want to be seen, we'd never see them.

This "we catch intriguing glimpses of them", doesn't make any sense to me IF these "UFOs" are actually extraterrestrials.


IF the premise holds - you have no idea what their intentions are.

We do see them openly. Looking at the data 4 new unique incidents a week in the US alone.

They can appear and effectively disappear at will.

They can also shut down our nuclear weapons, jam weapons attack, jam aerial tracking devices. It’s clear they are in control whatever they are.

You strike me as someone who has not seriously looked at the evidence that has come out in recent years. I suggest you do so.

Then there’s also the appearance of beings themselves - explain the research done by John Mack on abductions - the first Harvard professor to work on such topics. He’s featured wonderfully in James Fox’s The Phenomenon which if you’ve not seen it, are on the fence, watch it immediately.
My  
AcidTest : 6/15/2021 7:53 pm : link
view is that there is about a 75% chance that are currently being studied by extraterrestrials. That is true even though I acknowledge that the opposite conclusion is extremely plausible and that we might well be the only intelligent life in the galaxy.

My main reasons are as follows:

(1) The sun is of the correct spectral type (G) to have planets that can support life. The general consensus is that only F (3%), G (7.6%), and K (12.1%) stars can do so. (Fifty of the closest 63 stars to the Sun are M class red dwarfs.)
(2) At 4.6 billion years old, the sun is of the right age, and is very stable.
(3) The sun is not part of a binary or trinary star system. To support life, planets must be in the “habitable zone,” that is be in an orbit around their parent star that allows liquid water to exist. That is much more difficult in binary and trinary star systems because a planet might have to be in more than one habitable zone.
(4) The solar system is in the Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy, which is far from its center, where life is impossible because of radiation and the supermassive black hole Sagittarius A.
(5) The astronomical geometry of the solar system is conducive to life. This is because the inner planets are to some extent protected from continual bombardment by comets and meteors (the dinosaurs notwithstanding) by the outer gas giants.

Why does all of this increase the chance that we have been discovered by extraterrestrials? Because there are an estimated 100 to 400 billion stars in the Milky Way. Factors like those I mentioned help narrow the list of viable candidates.

So when do I think we’ll actually make contact with extraterrestrials? Never. Any beings observing us likely have no intention of interfering, either to save us or the planet. Allowing us to occasionally view their advanced technology is likely just part of their observations, in that case by measuring our responses.

There is also the possibility that they are so advanced that they cannot communicate with us.

I think if we want to meet an alien species we will have to be the visitors by discovering interstellar travel.

Extraterrestrials have little need to annihilate us a la “War of the Worlds” or “Independence Day.” Creating anything they want from preexisting materials would almost certainly be easier than coming to a remote part of the galaxy to destroy our planet.

Aliens could easily be bipedal.

Alien Life - ( New Window )
I loved Bob Lazar on Rogan  
lono801 : 6/15/2021 7:56 pm : link
I have watched many times
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/15/2021 7:57 pm : link
I've always wondered...if aliens are really out there, are they like the ET version or the Independence Day version?
What if they are more like the Star Trek  
mattlawson : 6/15/2021 8:04 pm : link
Rock creatures or the ones with huge brains in The Cage that could conjure anything from consciousness that they wanted to
HDNet  
AcidTest : 6/15/2021 8:21 pm : link
Movies is coincidentally playing "Fire in the Sky" right now, a movie about one of the most plausible alien abduction stories.
RE: If aliens are really out there, are they like  
Trainmaster : 6/15/2021 8:22 pm : link
I hope they at least look like her:

Does anyone not believe that aliens are out there?  
Big Al : 6/15/2021 8:53 pm : link
I certainly believe they are. The question is whether they are here. I just can’t get myself to believe they are here based on the type of evidence ( or lack of) we have. I need more tangible stuff.
Government technology from the Nazis  
Daniel in Kentucky : 6/15/2021 9:25 pm : link
I mean that is how we started our NASA program; and the Nazis invested the helicopter and the submarine.

Just saying’…
Invented*  
Daniel in Kentucky : 6/15/2021 9:25 pm : link
*
Unfortunately...  
BamaBlue : 6/15/2021 9:55 pm : link
In comment 15287083 Daniel in Kentucky said:
Quote:
I mean that is how we started our NASA program; and the Nazis invested the helicopter and the submarine.

Just saying’…


Igor Sikorsky invented the helicopter in 1939 (it flew in Connecticut). A Brit named William Bourne invented the submarine and an Irishman named, JP Holland built the first practical submarine. The Nazi's did invent the first practical Jet... that's something
As far as government secerts and Presidents  
Ike#88 : 6/15/2021 10:25 pm : link
when Truman took over after FDR died he was told for the first time about the existence of the A-bomb program. As to the aliens it is interesting that they have shown no interest in interacting with us so far despite there having been different sightings by people going back hundreds of years.
Do really good video clips exist of any of the  
Jimmy Googs : 6/15/2021 10:28 pm : link
remaining labeled UFOs? Close up and sharp looks so an expert can actually study these objects?

Or is because when those clips exist the UFO becomes something reasonably identified and cleared?
Most likely explanation to me  
Sneakers O'toole : 6/15/2021 10:30 pm : link
It's military. They're lying about it. And it's capabilities are being exaggerated.
RE: I loved Bob Lazar on Rogan  
jtfuoco : 6/15/2021 10:35 pm : link
In comment 15287036 lono801 said:
Quote:
I have watched many times


I never really believed Bob Lazar but I just watch 2 separate body language expert review his interviews and both came to the conclusion that he is not lying so now I am more intrigued about him and his story.
The funny thing about "extraordinary claims"  
widmerseyebrow : 6/15/2021 10:53 pm : link
is that once the dust settles a bit and everyone is on on the same page that these are real, physical objects zipping around the skies, it's going to be an extraordinary claim to say that it's some kind of optical illusion in addition to mass equipment failure (the best in the world).

Like I said on the previous thread, we don't even have to get into "little green men" to label this as paradigm shifting stuff. If another country is capable of this, is that not of interest?
RE: RE: I loved Bob Lazar on Rogan  
widmerseyebrow : 6/15/2021 10:55 pm : link
In comment 15287146 jtfuoco said:
Quote:
In comment 15287036 lono801 said:


Quote:


I have watched many times



I never really believed Bob Lazar but I just watch 2 separate body language expert review his interviews and both came to the conclusion that he is not lying so now I am more intrigued about him and his story.


It's interesting because Christopher Melon is (I think) the most high ranking guy driving this push for disclosure and he seems to think Lazar is probably full of shit.
Mick West vs. former F-16 pilot Chris Lehto  
widmerseyebrow : 6/15/2021 11:06 pm : link
This guy Chris Lehto has some good rebuttals to Mick West's "debunkings." For context, he's a retired former F-16 pilot who has a small YouTube channel centered around ex-pat life and financial advice. He was pretty triggered by Mick West and others claiming these government videos are nothing but optical illusions as he is familiar with the type of equipment that is being used to track these UAPs. Worth a watch to see some of the physics at play.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I am still very  
smshmth8690 : 6/15/2021 11:24 pm : link
In comment 15287026 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15286926 Big Al said:


Quote:


doubtful of any of the things but the opening post asked what else it could be other than the six things listed. How about

(7) Time traveling historians from the distant future.

I don’t believe that either.

I tend to believe it is some sort of optics thing but who the hell knows.





It could be a combination of things - rendelsheim forest incident comes to mind. The communication was essentially “we are you” and if you believe the binary code piece of the story that means time travelers.

If you think the binary code is bullshit - fine. “We are you” though could still be true. They could have helped our evolution along if they’ve been here … reminds me of the Bob lazar briefings he’s claimed to have read. Kindof makes some sense either way


If any of the reported UFO encounters were time travel incidents, and not alien encounters, Bentwaters would be a perfect example. One of the most intriguing incidents to me, especially the binary message.

Someone on this thread mentioned funding, that makes a ton of sense, I know a report is due at the end of the month, but will us private citizens even see it? Also the Tic Tac/David Fravor sighting was 17years ago, kind of odd that it gets released now.
RE: RE: I am still very  
moespree : 6/15/2021 11:52 pm : link
In comment 15287026 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15286926 Big Al said:


Quote:


doubtful of any of the things but the opening post asked what else it could be other than the six things listed. How about

(7) Time traveling historians from the distant future.

I don’t believe that either.

I tend to believe it is some sort of optics thing but who the hell knows.





It could be a combination of things - rendelsheim forest incident comes to mind. The communication was essentially “we are you” and if you believe the binary code piece of the story that means time travelers.

If you think the binary code is bullshit - fine. “We are you” though could still be true. They could have helped our evolution along if they’ve been here … reminds me of the Bob lazar briefings he’s claimed to have read. Kindof makes some sense either way


I believe the general hypothesis of the binary code story is they chose to do this as it is a universal computer language. The ones who believe this think this actually serves as a decent piece of evidence they are in fact future humans, who would thereby know not to leave a message in traditional language as so many different ones are spoken. In addition they would know the words would in fact be decipherable as more would be learned about binary code by humans, a fact a futurist would know.

I have no idea, it makes for an interesting thought.
Rendelsham Forest was a fucking lighthouse  
Greg from LI : 6/16/2021 12:07 am : link
.
A complete Hoax  
chiro56 : 6/16/2021 12:47 am : link
But one that will pay Big Dividends.
What worries me most is their obsession with our military assets.  
Mike from SI : 6/16/2021 12:58 am : link
How sure are we that if they could get here they definitely could evade detection 100%?

This is an imperfect analogy, but the best I can do. Let's imagine scientists hear a rumor about an undiscovered tribe in the Amazon. If the tribe truly were undiscovered, one would think they would be at least a millennium behind us technologically. But with our technology right now, even with satellites, it's possible we couldn't find them if we don't have a somewhat precise idea of their location due to tree canopies and such. In that situation, might we not look with drones or people or some other combination that is detectable? And if we eventually figured out they had some pretty advanced technology and/or defense systems, might we not want to probe them before contact?

So let's now assume that they can get here but for whatever reason they can't avoid detection. If that's true, they're probing our defenses and technology--they're not just coming out and saying "hi." That could be for their own protection, but it's obviously also troubling that our best technology can't fuck with them.

One scenario is a District 9 / Vernor Vinge Deepness in the Sky situation where the aliens are somewhat near us but in some way hobbled/stranded, and they're trying to test our limits and whether they can communicate with us, take what they need from us, etc.

If they *can* avoid detection, I'm not sure why their method of contact would be fucking with our militaries. In this scenario they could presumably glean whatever they need about our military assets without direct contact. But who am I to question the motives or methods about superior beings....I just think supremely powerful beings probably wouldn't announce their presence by making clear our military can't hang.

I think there is 0% chance this is Russian, Chinese, or other domestic technology. Do you think Putin or Xi would sit on this shit and not use it for military advantage? That seems impossible to me. Similarly if it's US technology it would be getting pushed into use ASAP.

I've read a fairly good argument that if we ever encounter alien technology, it would be AI and not "alive." This could definitely be that scenario.

If these are space tourists or parallel universe tourists, why are they testing our militaries? That aspect continues to trouble me but again what can I do?

Or it's just lizard people messing with us. Definitely lizard people.
RE: A complete Hoax  
Mike from SI : 6/16/2021 1:00 am : link
In comment 15287218 chiro56 said:
Quote:
But one that will pay Big Dividends.


Yeah I mean this could definitely be the military faking stuff to gin up more funding. Or our pilots/equipment are not as reliable as we think. (Which honestly is probably the most likely outcome.)
And just continuing my train of thoughts  
Mike from SI : 6/16/2021 1:03 am : link
if most of this shit happens near our military, isn't the most logical explanation that it's covert military projects? Maybe we can't build crafts like that, but can we trick our pilots and systems into thinking they're seeing alien-like craft? That could be useful in a huge war and perhaps best kept hidden for a "big" war against opponents with legit professional air forces, no?
Exactly!  
Daniel in Kentucky : 6/16/2021 1:14 am : link
!
Marty -  
short lease : 6/16/2021 3:13 am : link

So what are these vehicles?

Exactly - nobody knows. HENCE UFOs.

Now everybody jumps right to the conclusion UFOs = Extraterrestrials.

Unidentified means nobody knows what they are ... until the GOVT. can prove they came from somewhere OUTER SPACE - there really is no story.

If there is definitive proof that these things came from another solar system in the milky way or another galaxy, etc ... there is no story.


If there ever becomes any proof that there is beings from another Galaxy etc , ... they will have to rewrite MOST of History and ALL of Religions.
I think it’s pretty ignorant to think we are the only life in the  
eli4life : 6/16/2021 3:16 am : link
Universe. The question for me is why now? Are we about to make first contact or be invaded? I’m pretty confident that won’t happen lol. I think more likely we are about to have a major jump in technology that can only be explained by this. I believe that the government knew they had to let it out and they had the perfect time to do it. Held the people were scared for their life and the other half were too busy with all the rioting and other nonsense. Twenty-thirty years ago people would be all over this but now the world has the attention span of a dog that sees a squirrel.

Google navy patents and you’ll see some pretty amazing stuff. Makes ya wonder what kind of things they have that they aren’t putting out there at all. I’d love to see what kind of technology my greatgrandkids get to grow up with (great great great grandkids for some of you old farts around here :) )
RE: I think it’s pretty ignorant to think we are the only life in the  
short lease : 6/16/2021 4:43 am : link
In comment 15287229 eli4life said:
Quote:
Universe. The question for me is why now? Are we about to make first contact or be invaded? I’m pretty confident that won’t happen lol. I think more likely we are about to have a major jump in technology that can only be explained by this. I believe that the government knew they had to let it out and they had the perfect time to do it. Held the people were scared for their life and the other half were too busy with all the rioting and other nonsense. Twenty-thirty years ago people would be all over this but now the world has the attention span of a dog that sees a squirrel.

Google navy patents and you’ll see some pretty amazing stuff. Makes ya wonder what kind of things they have that they aren’t putting out there at all. I’d love to see what kind of technology my greatgrandkids get to grow up with (great great great grandkids for some of you old farts around here :) )


I agree 100% Eli about your implication/statement that we cannot be all alone in this Universe. That has to be impossible ... that there is no life anywhere else in the Universe.


Hell, there is probably other life in this Galaxy (Milky Way) which is about 100,000 LIGHT YEARS across. I googled it.

My brain cannot even fathom how long that is. Holy crap - if we can develop a space ship that travels 186,000 miles per SECOND, it would take that space ship 100,000 earth calendar years (100,000 years) traveling at 186,000 MILES PER SECOND to get from one side to another. MY brian explodes just thinking about that type of distance.

And that is just 1 FUCKING GALAXY .... How many galaxies are there out there in the Universe.

I can't think about it - my brain wants to stroke (explode) out

It is a big SPACE .... lolol and we are selling land rights on the planet earth - lololollllll ...
100 billion galaxies make up the BASIC building blocks  
short lease : 6/16/2021 4:58 am : link

of the Cosmos.


My Brain explodes trying to even picture it all but, there has to be other life out there.

I just don't believe the articles and videos (that were released in the last couple of weeks) proves existence of EXTERTERESTIAL life at this point.


Lucy is going to have some "Splaining" to do sooner or later. But, I am sure I will be dead before it happens - it might take another 40 - 50 Billion BLACK HOLES swallowing each other (bringing space closer in) .. to get life closer together? Who knows?


But, there has to be some other life out there than EARTH.


Discovery Magazine - ( New Window )
We live on a spinning rock in the middle of outer space.  
bradshaw44 : 6/16/2021 6:45 am : link
The fact that so many people think we are the only “intelligent” life out there is quite amusing.
J. Allen Hynek (Project Blue Book)  
Bubba : 6/16/2021 6:53 am : link
stated several times that UFOs exist. However he never committed to them being extraterrestrial.
RE: We live on a spinning rock in the middle of outer space.  
DannyDimes : 6/16/2021 7:33 am : link
In comment 15287243 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
The fact that so many people think we are the only “intelligent” life out there is quite amusing.


Things we don't understand but still believe require a certain type of faith. Whether you do or don't believe in life outside of the planet we live on requires faith. So neither position surprises me. Neither pro nor con have any real evidence...
The OP cannot believe the lack of attention this is getting  
NYGgolfer : 6/16/2021 7:42 am : link
in the media?

In today's world of hot takes, sensationalism and forced drama the very idea that this isn't getting attention should tell you all you need to know about its legitimacy.

Put some decent evidence up there about UFOs beyond some blurry pictures and it will get some attention. It has only been 70 years and still counting.
RE: And just continuing my train of thoughts  
mattlawson : 6/16/2021 7:46 am : link
In comment 15287221 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
if most of this shit happens near our military, isn't the most logical explanation that it's covert military projects? Maybe we can't build crafts like that, but can we trick our pilots and systems into thinking they're seeing alien-like craft? That could be useful in a huge war and perhaps best kept hidden for a "big" war against opponents with legit professional air forces, no?


So the explanation the entire time has been you would not risk a separate military training mission to test your equipment like this.

It also doesn’t explain the sightings going back decades of identical craft With identical performance
RE: RE: We live on a spinning rock in the middle of outer space.  
Big Al : 6/16/2021 7:48 am : link
In comment 15287258 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
In comment 15287243 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


The fact that so many people think we are the only “intelligent” life out there is quite amusing.



Things we don't understand but still believe require a certain type of faith. Whether you do or don't believe in life outside of the planet we live on requires faith. So neither position surprises me. Neither pro nor con have any real evidence...
I disagree. Believing we are totally unique in the universe seems to be much more of an item of faith. In my opinion, a more logical scientific view would be that conditions for life that happened here would happen elsewhere.
RE: The OP cannot believe the lack of attention this is getting  
mattlawson : 6/16/2021 7:48 am : link
In comment 15287262 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
in the media?

In today's world of hot takes, sensationalism and forced drama the very idea that this isn't getting attention should tell you all you need to know about its legitimacy.

Put some decent evidence up there about UFOs beyond some blurry pictures and it will get some attention. It has only been 70 years and still counting.


Apparently much better footage does exist so just be patient. And by the way front page news on the New York Times in 2017 was kind of unprecedented
RE: Rendelsham Forest was a fucking lighthouse  
mattlawson : 6/16/2021 7:50 am : link
In comment 15287212 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Yeah I’ve heard that explanation too. Don’t think that’s all there is to it.
RE: The funny thing about  
giants#1 : 6/16/2021 7:54 am : link
In comment 15287157 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
is that once the dust settles a bit and everyone is on on the same page that these are real, physical objects zipping around the skies, it's going to be an extraordinary claim to say that it's some kind of optical illusion in addition to mass equipment failure (the best in the world).

Like I said on the previous thread, we don't even have to get into "little green men" to label this as paradigm shifting stuff. If another country is capable of this, is that not of interest?


American technology fails all the time (numerous examples from just Boeing in the last 5 years alone). That's why military systems have redundancy built in and many NASA systems include multiple layers of redundancy.

Many of the artifacts aren't even "failures" of the technology. They're known limitations of the systems.
For those who listened to any of Commander Fravor's  
kelsto811 : 6/16/2021 8:12 am : link
Testimony on chasing the "tic-tac" UFO, listen to this Art Professor's testimony from decades prior, pretty incredible
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: The OP cannot believe the lack of attention this is getting  
NYGgolfer : 6/16/2021 8:17 am : link
In comment 15287266 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15287262 NYGgolfer said:


Quote:


in the media?

In today's world of hot takes, sensationalism and forced drama the very idea that this isn't getting attention should tell you all you need to know about its legitimacy.

Put some decent evidence up there about UFOs beyond some blurry pictures and it will get some attention. It has only been 70 years and still counting.



Apparently much better footage does exist so just be patient. And by the way front page news on the New York Times in 2017 was kind of unprecedented


And its 4 years later and where did that unprecedented news story go? Look forward to better footage and coverage on this topic too when there is some credible evidence. And I have plenty of patience and hopefully another 50-60 years left in me, so will be waiting.
RE: Rendelsham Forest was a fucking lighthouse  
giants#1 : 6/16/2021 8:23 am : link
In comment 15287212 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Seriously. If UFOlogists would acknowledge the clearly debunked stuff isn't alien in nature, it would lend more credence to their more legit claims.
RE: RE: Rendelsham Forest was a fucking lighthouse  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 6/16/2021 8:26 am : link
In comment 15287267 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15287212 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


.



Yeah I’ve heard that explanation too. Don’t think that’s all there is to it.


One of the servicemen touched the craft. In the woods. Still think its a lighthouse?
RE: And just continuing my train of thoughts  
giants#1 : 6/16/2021 8:31 am : link
In comment 15287221 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
if most of this shit happens near our military, isn't the most logical explanation that it's covert military projects? Maybe we can't build crafts like that, but can we trick our pilots and systems into thinking they're seeing alien-like craft? That could be useful in a huge war and perhaps best kept hidden for a "big" war against opponents with legit professional air forces, no?


Why do we need to 'trick' our pilots? Isn't a plausible scenario that we're testing out new, advanced technologies and that these technologies might simply be "buggy"? We have deployed military systems with plenty of software/hardware bugs (see JSF)...
RE: We live on a spinning rock in the middle of outer space.  
giants#1 : 6/16/2021 8:34 am : link
In comment 15287243 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
The fact that so many people think we are the only “intelligent” life out there is quite amusing.


I'm confident we're not the only intelligent life in the universe.

I'm also skeptical that any of these blurry images have alien origins.
RE: RE: RE: Rendelsham Forest was a fucking lighthouse  
smshmth8690 : 6/16/2021 8:55 am : link
In comment 15287298 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
In comment 15287267 mattlawson said:


Quote:


In comment 15287212 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


.



Yeah I’ve heard that explanation too. Don’t think that’s all there is to it.



One of the servicemen touched the craft. In the woods. Still think its a lighthouse?


Right, it was a lighthouse. I guess it was built earlier that day too, because it was never noticed before.
I've typically thought it to be a slam dunk  
Bear vs Shark : 6/16/2021 8:57 am : link
that there is other intelligent life in the Universe. However, recently, I was reading a comment by someone where they stated that while its extremely likely that there has been intelligent life out there, when you factor in how small of a time period humans have existed within the context of the age of the planet (let alone the universe), it'd be unlikely that they'd exist at the same time as we do.

I thought that was a pretty reasonable point. It makes me feel these UFOs/UAPs actually being ourselves from the future is a more viable option.

I feel like a fucking crazy person saying "time travelers from the future is more viable than aliens", which is a statement that would have you marked as batshit insane as little as a decade ago.
RE: RE: And just continuing my train of thoughts  
jtfuoco : 6/16/2021 10:13 am : link
In comment 15287305 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15287221 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


if most of this shit happens near our military, isn't the most logical explanation that it's covert military projects? Maybe we can't build crafts like that, but can we trick our pilots and systems into thinking they're seeing alien-like craft? That could be useful in a huge war and perhaps best kept hidden for a "big" war against opponents with legit professional air forces, no?



Why do we need to 'trick' our pilots? Isn't a plausible scenario that we're testing out new, advanced technologies and that these technologies might simply be "buggy"? We have deployed military systems with plenty of software/hardware bugs (see JSF)...


Would you test unproven technology around nuclear assets both in the U.S and abroad you are asking for a disaster to occur. I think whatever this is it's very interested in our nuclear ability and military. It's a real problem with no solution it's almost impossible to study because it's unpredictable and hard to detect. IMO it's a ancient drone or drones that are parked deep in the ocean and come out every once and a while to check on things. Like curiosity on Mars is doing for us.
RE: RE: RE: And just continuing my train of thoughts  
giants#1 : 6/16/2021 10:19 am : link
In comment 15287394 jtfuoco said:
Quote:
In comment 15287305 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 15287221 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


if most of this shit happens near our military, isn't the most logical explanation that it's covert military projects? Maybe we can't build crafts like that, but can we trick our pilots and systems into thinking they're seeing alien-like craft? That could be useful in a huge war and perhaps best kept hidden for a "big" war against opponents with legit professional air forces, no?



Why do we need to 'trick' our pilots? Isn't a plausible scenario that we're testing out new, advanced technologies and that these technologies might simply be "buggy"? We have deployed military systems with plenty of software/hardware bugs (see JSF)...



Would you test unproven technology around nuclear assets both in the U.S and abroad you are asking for a disaster to occur. I think whatever this is it's very interested in our nuclear ability and military. It's a real problem with no solution it's almost impossible to study because it's unpredictable and hard to detect. IMO it's a ancient drone or drones that are parked deep in the ocean and come out every once and a while to check on things. Like curiosity on Mars is doing for us.


I don't know what nuclear assets you are referring to, but White Sands Missile Range is a major test facility for missiles (hence the name) and much of the development of nuclear weapons occurred there.

It also depends on what unproven technologies you are talking about. New radar systems? Sure.
These discussions are always frustrating  
Dr. D : 6/16/2021 10:26 am : link
Comments from skeptics can seem insulting to anyone who has legitimately witnessed something. We know that probably a majority of "sightings" are explainable; let's say 99.9%. It's the 0.1% (or whatever the true % is) that we should be focusing on (that's what the pentagon, et al is focused on, but not the skeptics).

I saw something at fairly close distance, in the spring of 1998 (on a rural road near Malvern PA, a suburb of Philly). It's kind of a long story, but long story short: I wasn't on anything at the time and it wasn't anything I'd ever seen before or since (and I'm not exactly a youngin'). It moved slowly and silently over my head and then took off. It wasn't a balloon, airplane, helicopter, Harrier jet, swamp gas or trick of the light.

I saw one craft. It was dark so I couldn't see the exact shape of the craft, but I do know it had a triangle of bright lights (underneath facing down). I pulled over to side of road, turned my car off and rolled down my window to see if I heard anything. There was no sound, at all. It freaked me out. A younger (more adventurous) me might have jumped out of my car, but I had seen "Fire in the Sky" 3-4 years prior, so I stayed in my car.

Wish I could've gotten a photo, but it was before smart phones.

Still don't know what it was; almost 25 years later.
RE: I've typically thought it to be a slam dunk  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/16/2021 10:29 am : link
In comment 15287322 Bear vs Shark said:
Quote:
that there is other intelligent life in the Universe. However, recently, I was reading a comment by someone where they stated that while its extremely likely that there has been intelligent life out there, when you factor in how small of a time period humans have existed within the context of the age of the planet (let alone the universe), it'd be unlikely that they'd exist at the same time as we do.

I thought that was a pretty reasonable point. It makes me feel these UFOs/UAPs actually being ourselves from the future is a more viable option.

I feel like a fucking crazy person saying "time travelers from the future is more viable than aliens", which is a statement that would have you marked as batshit insane as little as a decade ago.


This. The Fermi Paradox is pretty convincing to me. Is there intelligent life out there? Probably, but then that life would need to evolve in a way it’s traveling massive distances. There’s also the timeframe issue. If it’s anything I think it’s time travelers. Or it’s the militaries across the world realizing this is good way to drum up money. Follow the money.
These discussions..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/16/2021 10:30 am : link
inevitably break down to the takes that there is no other intelligent life in the universe versus there are aliens here and they are rampant.

The astonishment over why these events aren't a bigger deal really is odd though. As are the claims that aliens have been seen "openly" and that they have the ability to control or shutdown whatever they please. Because something is unexplained doesn't make it nefarious or otherworldly. Some of these posts start veering off into paths that abductions and sightings aren't just recorded now, but that they are common. When neither is true.

I believe there is other intelligent life out there. And if there is that is trying to engage with us, I don't believe it is intentionally fucking with the military or testing our systems. It is likely probing our planet to see what exists, much like we would do.

Trying to tie explanations to unexplained objects really isn't fruitful. It's just unfounded speculation that often takes a snippet of information and uses it to try and prove validity.
One of the Naval aviators interviewed on 60 minutes...  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 6/16/2021 10:33 am : link
Perhaps because for him and some of his former Navy colleagues, such sightings became a regular occurrence.

“Every day,” Graves said in an interview with CBS’s “60 Minutes” that aired Sunday. “Every day for at least a couple years.”

The retired lieutenant’s matter-of-fact remark stopped “60 Minutes” correspondent Bill Whitaker, who cut in: “Wait a minute. Every day for a couple of years?”

“Mhmm,” Graves replied.
RE: These discussions..  
Big Al : 6/16/2021 10:35 am : link
In comment 15287422 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
inevitably break down to the takes that there is no other intelligent life in the universe versus there are aliens here and they are rampant.

The astonishment over why these events aren't a bigger deal really is odd though. As are the claims that aliens have been seen "openly" and that they have the ability to control or shutdown whatever they please. Because something is unexplained doesn't make it nefarious or otherworldly. Some of these posts start veering off into paths that abductions and sightings aren't just recorded now, but that they are common. When neither is true.

I believe there is other intelligent life out there. And if there is that is trying to engage with us, I don't believe it is intentionally fucking with the military or testing our systems. It is likely probing our planet to see what exists, much like we would do.

Trying to tie explanations to unexplained objects really isn't fruitful. It's just unfounded speculation that often takes a snippet of information and uses it to try and prove validity.
i disagree with your first paragraph. Many of us take the middle position.
Al..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/16/2021 10:39 am : link
certainly. Then we are beat over the head with fanciful claims that it should be common knowledge we are visited by aliens.
to the question in the OP  
UConn4523 : 6/16/2021 10:43 am : link
I fall into the category of I believe its possible, but like many things I need to see it to believe it. And if I did see a UFO - how would a verify what I'm actually looking at?

Ultimately I'd also fall into the "I don't really care" category. For all the science fiction I watch I never actually spent much time on thinking "what if they are real". I don't know what that is but that's my attitude towards it. I suspect that aligns with most of the population and why this isn't getting more buzz. There's just too much other stuff happening around us that's definitively real and consuming our time.
Some of these spaceships travel  
oghwga : 6/16/2021 10:45 am : link
Millions of miles through deep space to come here and I always wonder what the point is of the running lights. I'm fully in the want to believe category but I'm waiting until I see the guy with the cookbook.
RE: One of the Naval aviators interviewed on 60 minutes...  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/16/2021 10:46 am : link
In comment 15287431 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
Perhaps because for him and some of his former Navy colleagues, such sightings became a regular occurrence.

“Every day,” Graves said in an interview with CBS’s “60 Minutes” that aired Sunday. “Every day for at least a couple years.”

The retired lieutenant’s matter-of-fact remark stopped “60 Minutes” correspondent Bill Whitaker, who cut in: “Wait a minute. Every day for a couple of years?”

“Mhmm,” Graves replied.


I’m going to tell you why I don’t believe this guy. If this were the case, the amount of scuttlebutt on the ship would be intense. This doesn’t happen in one person vacuum. There would be talk on the bridge and air wing command and control.
RE: Al..  
Big Al : 6/16/2021 10:47 am : link
In comment 15287440 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
certainly. Then we are beat over the head with fanciful claims that it should be common knowledge we are visited by aliens.
I can live with that. Beware anyone telling you something unproven is common knowledge. “Common knowledge” has sometimes had a very poor historical record.
RE: RE: One of the Naval aviators interviewed on 60 minutes...  
giants#1 : 6/16/2021 10:51 am : link
In comment 15287457 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15287431 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


Perhaps because for him and some of his former Navy colleagues, such sightings became a regular occurrence.

“Every day,” Graves said in an interview with CBS’s “60 Minutes” that aired Sunday. “Every day for at least a couple years.”

The retired lieutenant’s matter-of-fact remark stopped “60 Minutes” correspondent Bill Whitaker, who cut in: “Wait a minute. Every day for a couple of years?”

“Mhmm,” Graves replied.



I’m going to tell you why I don’t believe this guy. If this were the case, the amount of scuttlebutt on the ship would be intense. This doesn’t happen in one person vacuum. There would be talk on the bridge and air wing command and control.


I imagine someone would've taken a non-grainy photo of the UFOs during that time as well. And found a way to leak it. Every major news organization in this country would line up for the photos/videos and gladly spend millions to protect their source.
RE: RE: ... they may very well have advanced technologies ...  
montanagiant : 6/16/2021 10:52 am : link
In comment 15287022 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
... we can't even comprehend.

And yet they can't escape detection by our crude (likely by their standards) technologies?

I think if they wanted to be seen, we'd see them openly.

I think if they didn't want to be seen, we'd never see them.

This "we catch intriguing glimpses of them", doesn't make any sense to me IF these "UFOs" are actually extraterrestrials.

How do you know they "don't want to be seen"?

You keep posting in these absolutes based on your version of what you think they would do which is a bit absurd if they truly are Aliens.
RE: RE: RE: ... they may very well have advanced technologies ...  
giants#1 : 6/16/2021 10:55 am : link
In comment 15287471 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15287022 Trainmaster said:


Quote:


... we can't even comprehend.

And yet they can't escape detection by our crude (likely by their standards) technologies?

I think if they wanted to be seen, we'd see them openly.

I think if they didn't want to be seen, we'd never see them.

This "we catch intriguing glimpses of them", doesn't make any sense to me IF these "UFOs" are actually extraterrestrials.



How do you know they "don't want to be seen"?

You keep posting in these absolutes based on your version of what you think they would do which is a bit absurd if they truly are Aliens.


Well, if they wanted to be seen, why haven't we seen them yet?
RE: RE: RE: RE: ... they may very well have advanced technologies ...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/16/2021 10:57 am : link
In comment 15287475 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15287471 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 15287022 Trainmaster said:


Quote:


... we can't even comprehend.

And yet they can't escape detection by our crude (likely by their standards) technologies?

I think if they wanted to be seen, we'd see them openly.

I think if they didn't want to be seen, we'd never see them.

This "we catch intriguing glimpses of them", doesn't make any sense to me IF these "UFOs" are actually extraterrestrials.



How do you know they "don't want to be seen"?

You keep posting in these absolutes based on your version of what you think they would do which is a bit absurd if they truly are Aliens.



Well, if they wanted to be seen, why haven't we seen them yet?


Because not a lot of people live in the middle of nowhere...
But if aliens 'want' to be seen  
giants#1 : 6/16/2021 11:00 am : link
why would they go to the middle of nowhere to begin with?
RE: But if aliens 'want' to be seen  
Jimmy Googs : 6/16/2021 11:02 am : link
In comment 15287486 giants#1 said:
Quote:
why would they go to the middle of nowhere to begin with?


Because that is where you find the type that say they saw a UFO...
Again, we are approaching this phenomenon with human brains  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 6/16/2021 11:03 am : link
Our logic can't make sense of the phenomenon or the behavior of these crafts/occupants. We need to be ok with that as we are barely evolved monkeys at this point. The arrogance to assume that because the phenomenon doesn't fit our limited capacity of understanding, so we must reject it is silly.
RE: RE: RE: ... they may very well have advanced technologies ...  
Dr. D : 6/16/2021 11:07 am : link
In comment 15287471 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15287022 Trainmaster said:


Quote:


... we can't even comprehend.

And yet they can't escape detection by our crude (likely by their standards) technologies?

I think if they wanted to be seen, we'd see them openly.

I think if they didn't want to be seen, we'd never see them.

This "we catch intriguing glimpses of them", doesn't make any sense to me IF these "UFOs" are actually extraterrestrials.



How do you know they "don't want to be seen"?

You keep posting in these absolutes based on your version of what you think they would do which is a bit absurd if they truly are Aliens.

I agree about the absolutes.

Is it possible they just don't care very much if they're seen, on occasion?

Maybe the longer they're here, the more careless they may've gotten or the more they don't care if they're seen?
RE: Again, we are approaching this phenomenon with human brains  
giants#1 : 6/16/2021 11:07 am : link
In comment 15287493 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
Our logic can't make sense of the phenomenon or the behavior of these crafts/occupants. We need to be ok with that as we are barely evolved monkeys at this point. The arrogance to assume that because the phenomenon doesn't fit our limited capacity of understanding, so we must reject it is silly.


I'm not outright rejecting it. I'm 100% open to it, I just want verifiable proof of aliens, not situations with plausible explanations.

The iPhone was released in 2007 and there are supposedly "daily encounters" with alien UFOs, yet no one has managed to capture a HD photo/video of one?
Neil Degrasse Tyson on last Bill Maher Djpw  
Big Al : 6/16/2021 11:08 am : link
When pressed by Maher on this subject, he said “I don’t know, and I’m happy saying that I don’t know,”
:  
Big Al : 6/16/2021 11:09 am : link
Show.
I lean towards US military, Private industry, or non-human  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/16/2021 11:14 am : link
Considering how much the US spends on our military budget that we don’t even know about, I’m sure there are special sectors within it that tests absolutely wild stuff much like the Nazi scientists used to do (some who we brought over). I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Mexico sees more UFOs than almost anyone else. I truly feel like the general public like us have zero clue as to the extent of the type of futuristic technology that we test out.

I can’t see it being another country. No one else spends on that stuff as much as us as far as we know. I could see private industry doing it for sure.

But I believe we’re not alone so I could see a non-human form surveying/guiding us to an extent. I’ve always been a fan of the theory that they are below the surface of our oceans, we know less about there than we know about space. I wouldn’t be surprised by anything honestly.

Just gonna live my life and if there are aliens, I hope I’m around for that world changing event.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ... they may very well have advanced technologies ...  
montanagiant : 6/16/2021 11:18 am : link
In comment 15287475 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15287471 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 15287022 Trainmaster said:


Quote:


... we can't even comprehend.

And yet they can't escape detection by our crude (likely by their standards) technologies?

I think if they wanted to be seen, we'd see them openly.

I think if they didn't want to be seen, we'd never see them.

This "we catch intriguing glimpses of them", doesn't make any sense to me IF these "UFOs" are actually extraterrestrials.



How do you know they "don't want to be seen"?

You keep posting in these absolutes based on your version of what you think they would do which is a bit absurd if they truly are Aliens.



Well, if they wanted to be seen, why haven't we seen them yet?

How do you know we haven't? No one in Govt has said these sightings "Are not Aliens". They're saying we don't know what they are.
RE: Again, we are approaching this phenomenon with human brains  
montanagiant : 6/16/2021 11:22 am : link
In comment 15287493 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
Our logic can't make sense of the phenomenon or the behavior of these crafts/occupants. We need to be ok with that as we are barely evolved monkeys at this point. The arrogance to assume that because the phenomenon doesn't fit our limited capacity of understanding, so we must reject it is silly.

Thank you, you said it much better than me. We can't view this via our intelligence and scientific levels given that we barely understand the Universe
Osi  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 6/16/2021 11:23 am : link
The U.S.'s F-35s cost $80 M per jet. If we possessed the technology for instantaneous acceleration, instantaneous stopping, the capability of dropping from 80,000 feet to sea level in less than a second etc... Why are we pouring that amount of money into F-35s that fly around on jet fuel with pilots who can only handle about 9gs at most?
RE: Osi  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/16/2021 11:28 am : link
In comment 15287527 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
The U.S.'s F-35s cost $80 M per jet. If we possessed the technology for instantaneous acceleration, instantaneous stopping, the capability of dropping from 80,000 feet to sea level in less than a second etc... Why are we pouring that amount of money into F-35s that fly around on jet fuel with pilots who can only handle about 9gs at most?


Look, I haven’t studied this and I’m just talking. But maybe there are some downsides to that technology in terms of weaponry? I don’t know, like I said I’m just BSing here. But there’s just sooo much money being poured into that industry that I wouldn’t be surprised by the extent of the technology they’re still trying to master.
RE: Osi  
giants#1 : 6/16/2021 11:32 am : link
In comment 15287527 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
The U.S.'s F-35s cost $80 M per jet. If we possessed the technology for instantaneous acceleration, instantaneous stopping, the capability of dropping from 80,000 feet to sea level in less than a second etc... Why are we pouring that amount of money into F-35s that fly around on jet fuel with pilots who can only handle about 9gs at most?


The physical pilot in a fighter jet is there for moral reasons as much as anything else at this point. We have drone's capable of launching precision munitions and could develop unmanned fighters as well (which would actually significantly reduce the cost) but it makes it a lot easier to go to war when you aren't risking actual human lives.
Link - ( New Window )
It  
AcidTest : 6/16/2021 12:02 pm : link
isn’t a given that aliens would come in or use space ships. That assumption could just be us using a common frame of reference to try and understand how they travel. They may have evolved to the point where they are pure consciousness, and therefore don’t need space ships or even bodies.

I doubt whether the Chinese or Russians could develop technologies capable of what we are witnessing, or that they could keep them a secret.

As someone said, one of the biggest problems is that intelligent life will likely evolve at entirely different times on different planets. An alien species visiting just a million years ago would have found nothing except early primates. We may not even be here a thousand years from now. The Earth is about 4.5 billion years old. That is just one of many plausible reasons to be skeptical about claims that we have been visited by extraterrestrials.
Time Traveling Drones, man...  
x meadowlander : 6/16/2021 12:42 pm : link
...deep hit off bong - yeah, these are quantum machines - it's the only way to explain such rapid movements, and why are they mostly appearing where our military can film them? It's intentional man, I mean it's GOT to be US!!... cough, COUGH!
One assumption I see being made here  
BlackLight : 6/16/2021 1:07 pm : link
is that any alien species technologically advanced enough to travel across galaxies to visit us would clearly be advanced enough to avoid detection. That seems quite reasonable. But there's an implicit assumption buried in there, that the aliens would want to avoid being detected. Maybe they don't care whether we can see them.
Or maybe they abide by  
Bubba : 6/16/2021 1:09 pm : link
Prime Directive.
RE: One assumption I see being made here  
Big Al : 6/16/2021 1:10 pm : link
In comment 15287635 BlackLight said:
Quote:
is that any alien species technologically advanced enough to travel across galaxies to visit us would clearly be advanced enough to avoid detection. That seems quite reasonable. But there's an implicit assumption buried in there, that the aliens would want to avoid being detected. Maybe they don't care whether we can see them.
I take for granted that they just don’t care.
They are planting ships that will activate and invade...  
x meadowlander : 6/16/2021 1:17 pm : link
.Just stay out of Bayonne and you'll be OK (always good advice)

These craft have been seen for hundreds of years  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 6/16/2021 1:18 pm : link
They are depicted in paintings hundreds of years old. It may be that being casually observed is not of major concern.
Nobody's interested  
I Love Clams Casino : 6/16/2021 1:20 pm : link
because whether the government admits it or not, we all know it's true. The government admitting it does not change anything.

What would be more interesting is if the government shows us what they are hiding at Area 51. The vehicles they've captured, the videos they have of beings in the vehicles, etc.

And to tell you the truth, it would only be mildly more interesting.

Whatever is out there, is pretty much just observing us. If they wanted more, it would be done already, and we wouldn't have much to say about it. We are like ants on the countertop to these beings. The government involvement doesn't change any of this. The aliens will continue to observe us. There is not going to be a giant coming out party, where we all suddenly have access to all this amazing technology and can book trips to other planets.
RE: RE: The funny thing about  
widmerseyebrow : 6/16/2021 1:25 pm : link
In comment 15287269 giants#1 said:
Quote:
American technology fails all the time (numerous examples from just Boeing in the last 5 years alone). That's why military systems have redundancy built in and many NASA systems include multiple layers of redundancy.

Many of the artifacts aren't even "failures" of the technology. They're known limitations of the systems.


I agree that technology failure does happen. I could believe one plane having some kind of malfunction and one pilot being confused.

I find it hard to believe an entire carrier group is having a malfunction across multiple systems and multiple veteran pilots are misidentifying another fighter jet with both their eyes and their equipment (which is what you would have to believe to buy Mick West's debunking theory).

I encourage you to watch the Chris Lehto videos I linked above. You have to be pretty sharp before they let you fly these multi million dollar aircraft.
RE: RE: RE: The funny thing about  
giants#1 : 6/16/2021 1:31 pm : link
In comment 15287657 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 15287269 giants#1 said:


Quote:


American technology fails all the time (numerous examples from just Boeing in the last 5 years alone). That's why military systems have redundancy built in and many NASA systems include multiple layers of redundancy.

Many of the artifacts aren't even "failures" of the technology. They're known limitations of the systems.



I agree that technology failure does happen. I could believe one plane having some kind of malfunction and one pilot being confused.

I find it hard to believe an entire carrier group is having a malfunction across multiple systems and multiple veteran pilots are misidentifying another fighter jet with both their eyes and their equipment (which is what you would have to believe to buy Mick West's debunking theory).

I encourage you to watch the Chris Lehto videos I linked above. You have to be pretty sharp before they let you fly these multi million dollar aircraft.


I watched the video of his "debunking" GoFast. It wasn't worth the time.
Aliens may actually find us quite fascinating to observe  
MartyGlickman : 6/16/2021 1:40 pm : link
Just because they are advanced way beyond our current capabilities, it doesn't mean that the human race isn't on an even greater trajectory of technological accomplishment. Perhaps given the relatively short time we have had to evolve as a species compared to this alien civilization, maybe we are the more exceptional species...and they understand that.
Hence the interest.
RE: U.S. technology  
ArtVandelay : 6/16/2021 1:46 pm : link
In comment 15286878 allstarjim said:
Quote:
that is so classified that high ranking people in our government aren't privy to...is a possibility.


Of course it’s just a conspiracy theory but doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Supposedly the German’s had developed technology toward the end of WW2 where disc shaped objects could take off/land vertically, hover, and travel a very high rates of speed. After the war these same scientist were recruited by our intelligence agencies to continue the development of a top secret space program that is far more advanced than anything NASA is doing.
Megyn Kelly interviewed John greenwald of the black vault.  
mattlawson : 6/16/2021 2:08 pm : link
He’s a FOIA nut.

"What's fascinating to me is UFOs have always been the most difficult, but also the most easily proven cover-up by the true definition of the word out of anything that I've tackled."

John Greenewald @blackvaultcom on the UFO "cover-up".
We try to avoid being detected or interfering  
widmerseyebrow : 6/16/2021 2:13 pm : link
when studying wildlife. We don't eliminate every animal that makes eye contact with us or runs into one of our cameras.

Doesn't seem far fetched to think of a hypothetical advanced species wanting to avoid detection, but not caring that much if they are.
Report delivered today per one rep  
mattlawson : 6/16/2021 2:27 pm : link
LAWMAKERS in Congress will be briefed today on the findings of the highly anticipated Pentagon report into UFOs, as one representative claims the aircraft must be from space, and not Russian technology.

US intelligence experts have produced a dossier on what the government knows about unidentified aerial phenomena, examining whether decades of orb sightings constitute a national security threat.
Link - ( New Window )
One question I've had  
ron mexico : 6/16/2021 2:35 pm : link
Is how big are these things?

I've never seen that discussed, which seems like an important aspect. But admittedly, I haven't dug too deep looking for that answer.
RE: One question I've had  
widmerseyebrow : 6/16/2021 2:39 pm : link
In comment 15287727 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Is how big are these things?

I've never seen that discussed, which seems like an important aspect. But admittedly, I haven't dug too deep looking for that answer.


I think the tic-tac, according to the pilots, was about 40 ft. long.
They range in size  
mattlawson : 6/16/2021 2:42 pm : link
This New Yorker article does an incredible job of capturing the unfolding over the decades. Really worth a read when you have the time
Link - ( New Window )
They are  
Big Al : 6/16/2021 2:50 pm : link
small.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Osi  
TXRabbit : 6/16/2021 3:12 pm : link
In comment 15287527 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
The U.S.'s F-35s cost $80 M per jet. If we possessed the technology for instantaneous acceleration, instantaneous stopping, the capability of dropping from 80,000 feet to sea level in less than a second etc... Why are we pouring that amount of money into F-35s that fly around on jet fuel with pilots who can only handle about 9gs at most?


Military
Industrial
Complex
.


i.e Too much money changing hands
Chris mellons questions for congress ahead of the report  
mattlawson : 6/16/2021 3:13 pm : link
Required reading.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: We try to avoid being detected or interfering  
bradshaw44 : 6/16/2021 3:51 pm : link
In comment 15287697 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
when studying wildlife. We don't eliminate every animal that makes eye contact with us or runs into one of our cameras.

Doesn't seem far fetched to think of a hypothetical advanced species wanting to avoid detection, but not caring that much if they are.


Exactly. I mean we go on Safari's and explore undeveloped regions of the earth. And those that do it try not to insert themselves into the ecosystem other than to observe. But they aren't overly concerned if the Zebra's see them. Aliens may very well view us the same way.
RE: RE: U.S. technology  
bradshaw44 : 6/16/2021 3:59 pm : link
In comment 15287669 ArtVandelay said:
Quote:
In comment 15286878 allstarjim said:


Quote:


that is so classified that high ranking people in our government aren't privy to...is a possibility.



Of course it’s just a conspiracy theory but doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Supposedly the German’s had developed technology toward the end of WW2 where disc shaped objects could take off/land vertically, hover, and travel a very high rates of speed. After the war these same scientist were recruited by our intelligence agencies to continue the development of a top secret space program that is far more advanced than anything NASA is doing.


We didn't recruit them as much as capture them and make them work for us. Warner Von Braun was essentially the creator of NASA and he was the head of the NAZI's science/aeronautical program during the war. He eventually created the long range rocket engine and was part of (I believe) executing the first US manned space mission.

I believe it was Braun who also thought that a compelling way to take over the world would be to create a "fake" alien invasion. He thought it would be the best way to control the public and consolidate power.
We  
AcidTest : 6/16/2021 4:50 pm : link
are capable of cognitive thought. Aliens would know this, and would therefore likely not want us detecting them overtly, especially since they would correctly deduce that as a species we are likely too immature, violent, and fearful to rationally handle proof that we have been visited by extraterrestrials. But they might occasionally nonetheless partially reveal themselves in a way we cannot completely verify in order to test our response and reaction. Doing so could easily be part of their overall observation mission.
I myself  
Big Al : 6/16/2021 5:00 pm : link
would not feel comfortable with giving a psychological profile of the thought process of an alien without at least one in depth interview.
RE: I myself  
Mike from SI : 6/16/2021 5:02 pm : link
In comment 15287862 Big Al said:
Quote:
would not feel comfortable with giving a psychological profile of the thought process of an alien without at least one in depth interview.


Also we need to see what they look like. You know, for the psych profile and all that.
RE: RE: I myself  
Big Al : 6/16/2021 5:15 pm : link
In comment 15287867 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 15287862 Big Al said:


Quote:


would not feel comfortable with giving a psychological profile of the thought process of an alien without at least one in depth interview.



Also we need to see what they look like. You know, for the psych profile and all that.
I think most would go with what as know as the “greys”. I think they are the ones skilled in anal probes.
I offer a different perspective..  
Football Giants : 6/16/2021 6:29 pm : link
I believe that 'aliens' do exist. Not in the way that mainstream media refers to them or describes them but from a theological framework. In the book of Genesis, we are told that we did have visitors once before- not from another planet, but from another realm. Spiritual beings (fallen angels) that came and dwelled with men. I believe the recent uptick in attention regarding UFO's is a deception by these spiritual beings that works towards a biblical agenda (biblical prophecy).
Really appreciate the excellent links and  
jpkmets : 6/16/2021 6:51 pm : link
media referrals. I spent last night reading up on Paul Bennewitz after Mirage Men. Ordered a new book called Saucers, Spooks& Kooks - UFO Disinformation in the Age of Aquarius. Looks really interesting.


Saucers, Spooks, and Kooks.... - ( New Window )
RE: I offer a different perspective..  
Mike from SI : 6/16/2021 6:51 pm : link
In comment 15287928 Football Giants said:
Quote:
I believe that 'aliens' do exist. Not in the way that mainstream media refers to them or describes them but from a theological framework. In the book of Genesis, we are told that we did have visitors once before- not from another planet, but from another realm. Spiritual beings (fallen angels) that came and dwelled with men. I believe the recent uptick in attention regarding UFO's is a deception by these spiritual beings that works towards a biblical agenda (biblical prophecy).


That's an interesting perspective.

On another note, I am flabbergasted this is not getting more attention.
RE: RE: I offer a different perspective..  
Big Al : 6/16/2021 6:53 pm : link
In comment 15287938 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 15287928 Football Giants said:


Quote:


I believe that 'aliens' do exist. Not in the way that mainstream media refers to them or describes them but from a theological framework. In the book of Genesis, we are told that we did have visitors once before- not from another planet, but from another realm. Spiritual beings (fallen angels) that came and dwelled with men. I believe the recent uptick in attention regarding UFO's is a deception by these spiritual beings that works towards a biblical agenda (biblical prophecy).



That's an interesting perspective.

On another note, I am flabbergasted this is not getting more attention.
I think the government investigation of this theory is super top secret.
RE: RE: RE: I offer a different perspective..  
Mike from SI : 6/16/2021 7:29 pm : link
In comment 15287942 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 15287938 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


In comment 15287928 Football Giants said:


Quote:


I believe that 'aliens' do exist. Not in the way that mainstream media refers to them or describes them but from a theological framework. In the book of Genesis, we are told that we did have visitors once before- not from another planet, but from another realm. Spiritual beings (fallen angels) that came and dwelled with men. I believe the recent uptick in attention regarding UFO's is a deception by these spiritual beings that works towards a biblical agenda (biblical prophecy).



That's an interesting perspective.

On another note, I am flabbergasted this is not getting more attention.

I think the government investigation of this theory is super top secret.


I meant the UFOs being "real" in general.
RE: RE: RE: I offer a different perspective..  
Jimmy Googs : 6/16/2021 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15287942 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 15287938 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


In comment 15287928 Football Giants said:


Quote:


I believe that 'aliens' do exist. Not in the way that mainstream media refers to them or describes them but from a theological framework. In the book of Genesis, we are told that we did have visitors once before- not from another planet, but from another realm. Spiritual beings (fallen angels) that came and dwelled with men. I believe the recent uptick in attention regarding UFO's is a deception by these spiritual beings that works towards a biblical agenda (biblical prophecy).



That's an interesting perspective.

On another note, I am flabbergasted this is not getting more attention.

I think the government investigation of this theory is super top secret.


Yeah, super. Of all things they should be focused on, this goes right to the top of the list.

Our government…
RE: RE: U.S. technology  
smshmth8690 : 6/16/2021 11:03 pm : link
In comment 15287669 ArtVandelay said:
Quote:
In comment 15286878 allstarjim said:


Quote:


that is so classified that high ranking people in our government aren't privy to...is a possibility.



Of course it’s just a conspiracy theory but doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Supposedly the German’s had developed technology toward the end of WW2 where disc shaped objects could take off/land vertically, hover, and travel a very high rates of speed. After the war these same scientist were recruited by our intelligence agencies to continue the development of a top secret space program that is far more advanced than anything NASA is doing.


Look into the Nazi's Die Glocke, and then the Kecksburg PA UFO incident. There are a lot of alleged similarities between the two, which could lend credence to the further work on WW2 objects, and the work being furthered here in the U.S.
RE: RE: I offer a different perspective..  
mattlawson : 6/18/2021 8:52 am : link
In comment 15287938 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 15287928 Football Giants said:


Quote:


I believe that 'aliens' do exist. Not in the way that mainstream media refers to them or describes them but from a theological framework. In the book of Genesis, we are told that we did have visitors once before- not from another planet, but from another realm. Spiritual beings (fallen angels) that came and dwelled with men. I believe the recent uptick in attention regarding UFO's is a deception by these spiritual beings that works towards a biblical agenda (biblical prophecy).



That's an interesting perspective.

On another note, I am flabbergasted this is not getting more attention.


There’s been podcasts dealing with this topic in the past year - really interesting.
As someone who has studied this topic for decades  
kelsto811 : 6/18/2021 9:02 am : link
I'm super impressed with the discussion and links and information being exchanged here. Very informative for someone who may not know much about this.
To deepen the rabbit hole  
kelsto811 : 6/18/2021 9:05 am : link
"The 1933 UFO crash in Italy recently mentioned by Lue Elizondo, has connections to Rendlesham Forest, mysterious deaths of scientists and Regans Star Wars Program."
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: I offer a different perspective..  
Big Al : 6/18/2021 9:05 am : link
In comment 15288931 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15287938 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


In comment 15287928 Football Giants said:


Quote:


I believe that 'aliens' do exist. Not in the way that mainstream media refers to them or describes them but from a theological framework. In the book of Genesis, we are told that we did have visitors once before- not from another planet, but from another realm. Spiritual beings (fallen angels) that came and dwelled with men. I believe the recent uptick in attention regarding UFO's is a deception by these spiritual beings that works towards a biblical agenda (biblical prophecy).



That's an interesting perspective.

On another note, I am flabbergasted this is not getting more attention.



There’s been podcasts dealing with this topic in the past year - really interesting.
Podcasts about that fallen angel stuff?
Yeah  
mattlawson : 6/18/2021 11:23 am : link
The Nephilim
RE: To deepen the rabbit hole  
mattlawson : 6/18/2021 11:25 am : link
In comment 15288938 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
"The 1933 UFO crash in Italy recently mentioned by Lue Elizondo, has connections to Rendlesham Forest, mysterious deaths of scientists and Regans Star Wars Program." Link - ( New Window )


Recently on somewhere in the skies it was suggested that part of the story that is very little known is that one military officer did not come back. It goes a little far to say that an abduction happened but Apparently there is a deep rabbit hole then I was aware of until recently.

All of those officers were basically separated all over the country and disbanded from their unit, Halt relatively recently gave a pretty good interview about it.
RE: As someone who has studied this topic for decades  
mattlawson : 6/18/2021 11:26 am : link
In comment 15288935 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
I'm super impressed with the discussion and links and information being exchanged here. Very informative for someone who may not know much about this.


I’ve been into this for basically 20 years. During graduate school staying up all night I used to listen to coast to coast in my studio it was so much fun, borderline addicting. There are multiple podcast now they do the best of coast to coast with our pool which are always great to look back 15-20 years and listen to these things again, as well as the more recent ones where they take 20 minute chunks out of the more recent shows and put them on.
RE: Yeah  
Big Al : 6/18/2021 11:39 am : link
In comment 15289022 mattlawson said:
Quote:
The Nephilim
I think bringing religious stuff into an essentially scientific discussion will turn a lot of people off. Sort of like bringing Creationism into a serious discussion of the details of evolution. Just saying. I like freedom of speech:
RE: RE: As someone who has studied this topic for decades  
kelsto811 : 6/18/2021 11:47 am : link
In comment 15289026 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15288935 kelsto811 said:


Quote:


I'm super impressed with the discussion and links and information being exchanged here. Very informative for someone who may not know much about this.



I’ve been into this for basically 20 years. During graduate school staying up all night I used to listen to coast to coast in my studio it was so much fun, borderline addicting. There are multiple podcast now they do the best of coast to coast with our pool which are always great to look back 15-20 years and listen to these things again, as well as the more recent ones where they take 20 minute chunks out of the more recent shows and put them on.


I'd love to see those best of coast to coast segments, that would be great as I used to listen to those all the time too. There's so many good podcasts out there for UFO stuff now. Lue Elizondo actually spoke about how they theorize UAP technology may work on Max Moszkowicz's podcast and the whole interview is spectacular. His podcast, mystery wire, somewhere in the skies, project unity, spaced out radio, and tons of other ones. The one guy I really don't like is Jimmy Church but I'll still listen to him when he has interesting guests on.
SF  
GF1080 : 6/18/2021 11:52 am : link
Regardless of the pres who started it but isn't the creation of a Space Force kind of a big clue towards something?
RE: To deepen the rabbit hole  
bradshaw44 : 6/18/2021 12:03 pm : link
In comment 15288938 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
"The 1933 UFO crash in Italy recently mentioned by Lue Elizondo, has connections to Rendlesham Forest, mysterious deaths of scientists and Regans Star Wars Program." Link - ( New Window )


There is an old newspaper article from I think 1904 or so, in either Texas or maybe Oklahoma, about a craft that crashed with a tiny man not of this world killed in the crash. They buried him under a tree on the farm where it hit the windmill. They even had a grave stone for him. Of course they tried to go dig him up recently but there is nothing there. The craft pieces were dumped in a well on the property. The well is apparently highly radioactive.

The reason this one is fascinating is because it was before we were flying, and humans weren't really on alert about Aliens since the phenomenon didn't carry the stigma of today. The article is casually written and that is what leads me to believe that it's real.
RE: RE: To deepen the rabbit hole  
kelsto811 : 6/18/2021 12:28 pm : link
In comment 15289041 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 15288938 kelsto811 said:


Quote:


"The 1933 UFO crash in Italy recently mentioned by Lue Elizondo, has connections to Rendlesham Forest, mysterious deaths of scientists and Regans Star Wars Program." Link - ( New Window )



There is an old newspaper article from I think 1904 or so, in either Texas or maybe Oklahoma, about a craft that crashed with a tiny man not of this world killed in the crash. They buried him under a tree on the farm where it hit the windmill. They even had a grave stone for him. Of course they tried to go dig him up recently but there is nothing there. The craft pieces were dumped in a well on the property. The well is apparently highly radioactive.

The reason this one is fascinating is because it was before we were flying, and humans weren't really on alert about Aliens since the phenomenon didn't carry the stigma of today. The article is casually written and that is what leads me to believe that it's real.


Yup, I know exactly what you are talking about. In fact the place where documents on it was said to be housed just burnt down within the last month. I think if anything was there, it would have been disclosed already but the article is interesting.
RE: RE: RE: To deepen the rabbit hole  
bradshaw44 : 6/18/2021 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15289056 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
In comment 15289041 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


In comment 15288938 kelsto811 said:


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"The 1933 UFO crash in Italy recently mentioned by Lue Elizondo, has connections to Rendlesham Forest, mysterious deaths of scientists and Regans Star Wars Program." Link - ( New Window )



There is an old newspaper article from I think 1904 or so, in either Texas or maybe Oklahoma, about a craft that crashed with a tiny man not of this world killed in the crash. They buried him under a tree on the farm where it hit the windmill. They even had a grave stone for him. Of course they tried to go dig him up recently but there is nothing there. The craft pieces were dumped in a well on the property. The well is apparently highly radioactive.

The reason this one is fascinating is because it was before we were flying, and humans weren't really on alert about Aliens since the phenomenon didn't carry the stigma of today. The article is casually written and that is what leads me to believe that it's real.



Yup, I know exactly what you are talking about. In fact the place where documents on it was said to be housed just burnt down within the last month. I think if anything was there, it would have been disclosed already but the article is interesting.


Oh wow, I didn't know that. A little more mystery to stir the pot!
Texas UFO Incident...  
BamaBlue : 6/18/2021 1:00 pm : link
This was 1897 in Aurora Texas. There is a History Channel show on YouTube with details. Sadly, lots of details and some evidence, but no answers.
RE: RE: Yeah  
mattlawson : 6/18/2021 1:10 pm : link
In comment 15289029 Big Al said:
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In comment 15289022 mattlawson said:


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The Nephilim

I think bringing religious stuff into an essentially scientific discussion will turn a lot of people off. Sort of like bringing Creationism into a serious discussion of the details of evolution. Just saying. I like freedom of speech:



Science has been anti-religion anti paranormal forever. So there’s that.

I think it’s also worth noting that Elizondo sites differences in philosophy on the UFO topic within government, meaning religious dogma prevents serious investigations into these incursions.

Freedom of speech, separation of church and state, objective research and scientific processes are continually stymied they are on egotistical visions of “reality”
RE: Texas UFO Incident...  
mattlawson : 6/18/2021 1:11 pm : link
In comment 15289079 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
This was 1897 in Aurora Texas. There is a History Channel show on YouTube with details. Sadly, lots of details and some evidence, but no answers.


Great incident. NY post podcast Stephen greenstreet did a breakdown of that one with nick pope. Really fantastic story
RE: RE: RE: Yeah  
Big Al : 6/18/2021 1:22 pm : link
In comment 15289087 mattlawson said:
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In comment 15289029 Big Al said:


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In comment 15289022 mattlawson said:


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The Nephilim

I think bringing religious stuff into an essentially scientific discussion will turn a lot of people off. Sort of like bringing Creationism into a serious discussion of the details of evolution. Just saying. I like freedom of speech:




Science has been anti-religion anti paranormal forever. So there’s that.

I think it’s also worth noting that Elizondo sites differences in philosophy on the UFO topic within government, meaning religious dogma prevents serious investigations into these incursions.

Freedom of speech, separation of church and state, objective research and scientific processes are continually stymied they are on egotistical visions of “reality”
I think that you can make a much better historical case that religion has been anti science.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Yeah  
montanagiant : 6/18/2021 1:27 pm : link
In comment 15289099 Big Al said:
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In comment 15289087 mattlawson said:


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In comment 15289029 Big Al said:


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In comment 15289022 mattlawson said:


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The Nephilim

I think bringing religious stuff into an essentially scientific discussion will turn a lot of people off. Sort of like bringing Creationism into a serious discussion of the details of evolution. Just saying. I like freedom of speech:




Science has been anti-religion anti paranormal forever. So there’s that.

I think it’s also worth noting that Elizondo sites differences in philosophy on the UFO topic within government, meaning religious dogma prevents serious investigations into these incursions.

Freedom of speech, separation of church and state, objective research and scientific processes are continually stymied they are on egotistical visions of “reality”

I think that you can make a much better historical case that religion has been anti science.
Absolutely agree with this. I honestly believe that Religion is one of the biggest reasons why any factual proof of life on another planet would be suppressed by the powers that be mainly due to religion. If you think about it, the knowledge that there is life on another planet would in some ways invalidate many of the religious iconic books such as the Bible
Science..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/18/2021 1:30 pm : link
by nature isn't "anti" anything. It should take no stance. It should lay out the evidence and have factual conclusions drawn.

As Al said, religion is anti-science.
RE: RE: Texas UFO Incident...  
bradshaw44 : 6/18/2021 2:13 pm : link
In comment 15289088 mattlawson said:
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In comment 15289079 BamaBlue said:


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This was 1897 in Aurora Texas. There is a History Channel show on YouTube with details. Sadly, lots of details and some evidence, but no answers.



Great incident. NY post podcast Stephen greenstreet did a breakdown of that one with nick pope. Really fantastic story


Yep. Of all the incidents out there, this one stands out the most to me. Simply because there was nothing for the paper to really gain writing that story at the time. And the treatment of the pilot being given a proper burial and religious ceremony was really fascinating. It was just matter of fact.
RE: Science..  
BamaBlue : 6/18/2021 8:29 pm : link
In comment 15289104 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
by nature isn't "anti" anything. It should take no stance. It should lay out the evidence and have factual conclusions drawn.

As Al said, religion is anti-science.


One caveat Fat Man... "Real" science is truly agnostic. Unfortunately, there is so much garbage passing for science and "settled" science is its muzzle. Relating this to UFO's, there is something out there and we have no clues. Science and theology are both stymied.
RE: Science..  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/18/2021 8:38 pm : link
In comment 15289104 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
by nature isn't "anti" anything. It should take no stance. It should lay out the evidence and have factual conclusions drawn.

As Al said, religion is anti-science.


To intertwine science and the three Abrahamic religions as something that can work together is asinine. There's a reason the Church has fought against science for centuries now. It essentially invalidates a lot of the core text. You can still use the texts as a philosophy to life, but when a core tenet is the Earth is 6,000 years old....yeah. Science is agnostic, it doesn't disprove God, just their ideas of it.
To pretend that there has been no stigma  
mattlawson : 6/18/2021 11:12 pm : link
Is absurd
RE: RE: RE: Texas UFO Incident...  
mattlawson : 6/18/2021 11:15 pm : link
In comment 15289131 bradshaw44 said:
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In comment 15289088 mattlawson said:


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In comment 15289079 BamaBlue said:


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This was 1897 in Aurora Texas. There is a History Channel show on YouTube with details. Sadly, lots of details and some evidence, but no answers.



Great incident. NY post podcast Stephen greenstreet did a breakdown of that one with nick pope. Really fantastic story



Yep. Of all the incidents out there, this one stands out the most to me. Simply because there was nothing for the paper to really gain writing that story at the time. And the treatment of the pilot being given a proper burial and religious ceremony was really fascinating. It was just matter of fact.



In true Disney Cars fashion - the only explainable rationale is that the town was going to be passed by and it was drummed up for the tourism. I’m not saying I believe that or it’s solid conclusion - but that’s the caveat
RE: To pretend that there has been no stigma  
Big Al : 6/19/2021 6:34 am : link
In comment 15289503 mattlawson said:
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Is absurd
?
......  
Klaatu : 6/19/2021 7:33 am : link
RE: RE: RE: RE: Texas UFO Incident...  
bradshaw44 : 6/19/2021 7:57 am : link
In comment 15289506 mattlawson said:
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In comment 15289131 bradshaw44 said:


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In comment 15289088 mattlawson said:


Quote:


In comment 15289079 BamaBlue said:


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This was 1897 in Aurora Texas. There is a History Channel show on YouTube with details. Sadly, lots of details and some evidence, but no answers.



Great incident. NY post podcast Stephen greenstreet did a breakdown of that one with nick pope. Really fantastic story



Yep. Of all the incidents out there, this one stands out the most to me. Simply because there was nothing for the paper to really gain writing that story at the time. And the treatment of the pilot being given a proper burial and religious ceremony was really fascinating. It was just matter of fact.




In true Disney Cars fashion - the only explainable rationale is that the town was going to be passed by and it was drummed up for the tourism. I’m not saying I believe that or it’s solid conclusion - but that’s the caveat


Was tourism a revenue driver for small town America in 1894?
When I started this post a few days ago  
MartyGlickman : 6/19/2021 8:15 am : link
I knew there would be interest (obviously I am fascinated with this subject) and I also expected a wide range of opinions which we got. It's very difficult to get a consensus on this topic and I'm sure the government report due out soon will shed no further light on this matter. So if I may be subjective, I think the most likely scenario (of the six possibilities in my original post) is a combination of #2 & #3. I'm thinking the United States does have some kind of new technology and really doesn't want our adversaries to understand fully what we have. Toward that aim the U.S. has been muddying the waters with misinformation to keep a lid on this as much as possible. It doesn't hurt the cover up that probably 99% of UFO related reports are just hoaxes by nutty people. I think that some of those radar videos and eyewitness reports by U.S. military might purposely exaggerate our new capabilities to keep adversaries off balance. Anyway, if I had to handicap the 6 possibilities listed, this is the way I'm leaning.
RE: When I started this post a few days ago  
bradshaw44 : 6/19/2021 8:20 am : link
In comment 15289563 MartyGlickman said:
Quote:
I knew there would be interest (obviously I am fascinated with this subject) and I also expected a wide range of opinions which we got. It's very difficult to get a consensus on this topic and I'm sure the government report due out soon will shed no further light on this matter. So if I may be subjective, I think the most likely scenario (of the six possibilities in my original post) is a combination of #2 & #3. I'm thinking the United States does have some kind of new technology and really doesn't want our adversaries to understand fully what we have. Toward that aim the U.S. has been muddying the waters with misinformation to keep a lid on this as much as possible. It doesn't hurt the cover up that probably 99% of UFO related reports are just hoaxes by nutty people. I think that some of those radar videos and eyewitness reports by U.S. military might purposely exaggerate our new capabilities to keep adversaries off balance. Anyway, if I had to handicap the 6 possibilities listed, this is the way I'm leaning.


I think your conclusion is partially right. This new stuff they are releasing could very well be exactly what you’re saying. The older reports before we even had driving technology couldn’t possibly be that answer.
I’m going to lean on Stanton Friedman here  
mattlawson : 6/19/2021 8:42 am : link
To pretend that there’s no bias or prejudice regarding this subject to avoid further inquiry is laughable

1- skeptics are not familiar with the data
2- the govt has covered up and lied through its teeth for decades, the data of studies conducted are incongruent with the press releases.
3- there’s a major fear of ridicule in the academic and scientific communities about this subject
4 - stigmas exist to avoid the subject in the scientific community
5- Studying radio signals is a waste of time
6- What’s going on here is akin to the cargo cults of New Guinea
7- noisy negativism is completely opposite of what the data shows
8 - UFOs are real, meaning some are ET
RE: I’m going to lean on Stanton Friedman here  
Big Al : 6/19/2021 9:22 am : link
In comment 15289571 mattlawson said:
Quote:
To pretend that there’s no bias or prejudice regarding this subject to avoid further inquiry is laughable

1- skeptics are not familiar with the data
2- the govt has covered up and lied through its teeth for decades, the data of studies conducted are incongruent with the press releases.
3- there’s a major fear of ridicule in the academic and scientific communities about this subject
4 - stigmas exist to avoid the subject in the scientific community
5- Studying radio signals is a waste of time
6- What’s going on here is akin to the cargo cults of New Guinea
7- noisy negativism is completely opposite of what the data shows
8 - UFOs are real, meaning some are ET
Yes there is bias but some against this stuff as there is bias against any new theories going against the current accepted thinking but in the end evidence wins out in science. Im this thread, I have not found much of that. Simply differences of opinion and discussion of evidence. I do see the bias from the other side in item 1 simplistic statement. Sort of saying, if you don’t agree with me, you are ignorant on the subject, An argument I always see used by conspiracy theorist, (I am not saying this stuff is a conspiracy theory), Number 5 Huh?

A quote;

“ Scientific skeptics attempt to evaluate claims based on verifiability and falsifiability and discourage accepting claims on faith or anecdotal evidence. Skeptics often focus their criticism on claims they consider to be implausible, dubious or clearly contradictory to generally accepted science.”

 
christian : 6/19/2021 9:48 am : link
Belief underpins both religion and UFOs in very parallel, and predictably human ways.

Science has only been clearly “anti-religion” at most for the last 200 years. Maybe because science and religion come from the same basic human curiosity, trying to make sense of the natural world around us. Science has lapped religion, and has a higher hit rate, but that’s relatively recent.

Personally, I’m both religious and a firm believer there is intelligent life outside of the Earth.

The current crop of evidence is underwhelming. Great claims, great evidence and all that. If the Catholic Church rolled out a few blurry videos, and said “Who knows what that is (but wink wink pretty good chance it’s God), I’m pretty certain of the reaction we’d all have.
RE: I’m going to lean on Stanton Friedman here  
Big Al : 6/19/2021 10:48 am : link
In comment 15289571 mattlawson said:
Quote:
To pretend that there’s no bias or prejudice regarding this subject to avoid further inquiry is laughable

1- skeptics are not familiar with the data
2- the govt has covered up and lied through its teeth for decades, the data of studies conducted are incongruent with the press releases.
3- there’s a major fear of ridicule in the academic and scientific communities about this subject
4 - stigmas exist to avoid the subject in the scientific community
5- Studying radio signals is a waste of time
6- What’s going on here is akin to the cargo cults of New Guinea
7- noisy negativism is completely opposite of what the data shows
8 - UFOs are real, meaning some are ET
This post led to me to doing some googling. I read about Stanton Friedman. Some of his critics said he used the Argument from Ignorance fallacy. I didn’t know it had a name but I have often in the past argued against logic that adherents of this fallacy use. Here it is;

“Argument from ignorance (from Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance represents "a lack of contrary evidence"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes the possibility that there may have been an insufficient investigation to prove that the proposition is either true or false.[1] It also does not allow for the possibility that the answer is unknowable, only knowable in the future, or neither completely true nor completely false.[2] In debates, appealing to ignorance is sometimes an attempt to shift the burden of proof. In research, low-power experiments are subject to false negatives (there would have been an observable effect if there had been a larger sample size or better experimental design) and false positives (there was an observable coincidental effect). The term was likely coined by philosopher John Locke in the late 17th century.[3][4]”

I also never heard of the Cargo Cult thing mentioned in 6.I found d it an interesting study of human psychology,
My main issue with the idea of a deliberate government misinformation  
widmerseyebrow : 6/19/2021 11:04 am : link
campaign: Weren't UFOs more of a fringe topic before all of this began? Starting with the Times story in 2017, the spotlight has just grown bigger and more people have been drawn to the subject. If you were trying to cover for your own military projects, hasn't it just become harder?

On the other hand, those Navy patents loom large in the background. If these things are real and not us (present day humans) all governments would be racing to copy the technology. Did the US get there?
Great thread so far  
TXRabbit : 6/19/2021 11:55 am : link
I've been studying the topic for many years and the stories, revelations and theories never fail to impress.

Personally, I believe this most recent hype of UAPs leans more towards military tech than anything.

The incident that makes me justify this happened in 1980 and is known as the Cash-Landrum incident in Texas. Look it up to read an amazing tale of what was most likely a government test of technology that didn't go as planned and unfortunately had innocent victims.

Cash-Landrum incident - ( New Window )
RE: Great thread so far  
BamaBlue : 6/19/2021 12:11 pm : link
In comment 15289702 TXRabbit said:
Quote:
I've been studying the topic for many years and the stories, revelations and theories never fail to impress.

Personally, I believe this most recent hype of UAPs leans more towards military tech than anything.

The incident that makes me justify this happened in 1980 and is known as the Cash-Landrum incident in Texas. Look it up to read an amazing tale of what was most likely a government test of technology that didn't go as planned and unfortunately had innocent victims. Cash-Landrum incident - ( New Window )


As a former Army helicopter pilot, that story is so full of factual holes to be non-credible. Just in numbers of aircraft and the purpose of such an armada is absurd. Secondly is the location. There would have to be a serious and very traceable effort to muster that many rotary wing aircraft. When I read the story about the Chinook landing and chatting it up with the pilot, I call BS.
Al  
mattlawson : 6/19/2021 5:12 pm : link
Friedman got into it because he read project blue books’ various reports and then saw the public relations spin after the fact. Govt banks on the fact that no one will actually read the reports with the official data. He did, and he’s a nuclear physicist and total datahead. It convinced him there was a coverup and there there. I’m just giving you his tag based on what I know of it.

To say a small 2 to 3% of anomalous on identified Ariel vehicles exist, when the data produced showed it was over 20% and the correlation was actually stronger with the owner identified cases of the other ones that could be explained…. Hard to logically spin that conclusion.
RE: …  
mattlawson : 6/19/2021 5:23 pm : link
In comment 15289597 christian said:
Quote:
Belief underpins both religion and UFOs in very parallel, and predictably human ways.

Science has only been clearly “anti-religion” at most for the last 200 years. Maybe because science and religion come from the same basic human curiosity, trying to make sense of the natural world around us. Science has lapped religion, and has a higher hit rate, but that’s relatively recent.

Personally, I’m both religious and a firm believer there is intelligent life outside of the Earth.

The current crop of evidence is underwhelming. Great claims, great evidence and all that. If the Catholic Church rolled out a few blurry videos, and said “Who knows what that is (but wink wink pretty good chance it’s God), I’m pretty certain of the reaction we’d all have.


The allegation is that there’s much more evidence that has not come forward yet.

Even if it IS secret tech it does not bode well for the paradigm we’re being kept in.

It’s a lose lose no matter what
Art Bell did a show with a Russian general in the 80s  
moespree : 6/19/2021 5:24 pm : link
Who said he had been told they were time traveling humans from the future. Essentially anthropologists of their modern age. He didn't know the extent, but he believes they are what some of the ancient cultures were describing as well when talking about lights in the sky and "chariots of fire" in their text.

He claimed they look the way they look due to human evolution, just as we look different today compared to first humans for similar reasons.

Michael P Masters has a book on this idea and theory and in his opinion satisfies all the markers of the probability of reasons notion.
RE: Art Bell did a show with a Russian general in the 80s  
Bricktop : 6/19/2021 5:32 pm : link
In comment 15289938 moespree said:
Quote:
Who said he had been told they were time traveling humans from the future. Essentially anthropologists of their modern age. He didn't know the extent, but he believes they are what some of the ancient cultures were describing as well when talking about lights in the sky and "chariots of fire" in their text.

He claimed they look the way they look due to human evolution, just as we look different today compared to first humans for similar reasons.

Michael P Masters has a book on this idea and theory and in his opinion satisfies all the markers of the probability of reasons notion.


I love the "time is a flat circle" theory. For some reason, it really resonates with me.
RE: I’m going to lean on Stanton Friedman here  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/19/2021 9:19 pm : link
In comment 15289571 mattlawson said:
Quote:
To pretend that there’s no bias or prejudice regarding this subject to avoid further inquiry is laughable

1- skeptics are not familiar with the data
2- the govt has covered up and lied through its teeth for decades, the data of studies conducted are incongruent with the press releases.
3- there’s a major fear of ridicule in the academic and scientific communities about this subject
4 - stigmas exist to avoid the subject in the scientific community
5- Studying radio signals is a waste of time
6- What’s going on here is akin to the cargo cults of New Guinea
7- noisy negativism is completely opposite of what the data shows
8 - UFOs are real, meaning some are ET


But even this post is riddled with bias and prejudice!
Each one of the points has bias throughout it.

Skeptics aren't familiar with the data would indicate that believers are familiar with the data

In fact, there's no conclusion to be drawn from the "data". And what is called "data" to some isn't really data at all. The only thing laughable is when somebody is presented with the information that is known now and concludes that it is clear that either aliens exist or that they absolutely do not. If you are concluding something from "data", you probably need a better understanding of that term.
I’m giving you Stan’s rationale  
mattlawson : 6/19/2021 11:09 pm : link
He studied the data. Was one of the foremost experts on the planet. His conclusion: UFOs are real. SOME UFOs are not earthly.
We better hope it's US tech  
Mike from SI : 6/20/2021 12:37 am : link
otherwise it's either Russia/China, or some type of aliens. Would prefer aliens tbh lol.
RE: I’m giving you Stan’s rationale  
Big Al : 6/20/2021 7:56 am : link
In comment 15290133 mattlawson said:
Quote:
He studied the data. Was one of the foremost experts on the planet. His conclusion: UFOs are real. SOME UFOs are not earthly.
And some of us read his rationale and gave our response that it was not convincing,. I found item 1 especially condescending and not a good way to convince those who have an open mind based on the facts we see.
What the data anyway  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2021 8:00 am : link
and how do we know it’s actual data or not?

This isn’t a math equation or a test someone ran in a lab. It’s essentially all speculative.

I’m not a believer nor a denier. I simply am comfortable saying I don’t know because I myself have never seen one. And that’s what it would take for me to believe - my own two eyes proving it.
RE: I’m giving you Stan’s rationale  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/20/2021 8:11 am : link
In comment 15290133 mattlawson said:
Quote:
He studied the data. Was one of the foremost experts on the planet. His conclusion: UFOs are real. SOME UFOs are not earthly.


What "data"?? And what does his conclusion mean or represent?

Of course UFO's are real. By definition, not knowing what something is classifies it as an UNKNOWN object. Saying some aren't earthly isn't conclusive. Unless he's looking at asteroids.
Can someone please post one or two example of this so-called  
Jimmy Googs : 6/20/2021 8:30 am : link
"data"?

Everyone should believe in UFOs for the same reason as noted above...because they haven't or cannot been identified as of yet.

But given a clear picture or video or a somebody that doesn't live out in the middle of nowhere, I am pretty sure most, if not all, of the remaining UFO sightings would be converted to IFOs...
RE: I’m giving you Stan’s rationale  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/20/2021 9:03 am : link
In comment 15290133 mattlawson said:
Quote:
He studied the data. Was one of the foremost experts on the planet. His conclusion: UFOs are real. SOME UFOs are not earthly.


And I'm not sure what being a "foremost expert" on a subject like this has to do with anything. One of the "foremost experts" on Bigfoot validated that a hoax of a gorilla suit in a box was proof several years back.

There are "foremost experts" on ghosts, there have been hundred of thousands of ghost sightings over the years. They have been featured prominently in literature and film often with a similar appearance of being transluscent and wearing tattered clothing. There's even references to spirits in ancient works. And yet, their proof doesn't exist, nor is there data to suggest they do. There also isn't data to conclude they don't exist.

RE: RE: I’m giving you Stan’s rationale  
Big Al : 6/20/2021 9:11 am : link
In comment 15290323 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15290133 mattlawson said:


Quote:


He studied the data. Was one of the foremost experts on the planet. His conclusion: UFOs are real. SOME UFOs are not earthly.



And I'm not sure what being a "foremost expert" on a subject like this has to do with anything. One of the "foremost experts" on Bigfoot validated that a hoax of a gorilla suit in a box was proof several years back.

There are "foremost experts" on ghosts, there have been hundred of thousands of ghost sightings over the years. They have been featured prominently in literature and film often with a similar appearance of being transluscent and wearing tattered clothing. There's even references to spirits in ancient works. And yet, their proof doesn't exist, nor is there data to suggest they do. There also isn't data to conclude they don't exist.
A quote from one of the critics of Friedman:

“Friedman relied on the argument from ignorance fallacy and didn't understand the principle of Occam's razor and thought that the quantity of evidence was more important than quality of evidence.”
Wait a minute...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/20/2021 9:26 am : link
Bigfoot wasn't real?

That’s the problem with these “experts”, they are almost all out to  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/20/2021 10:04 am : link
Prove things positively, not question the data that comes in. They twist it to prove whatever. Put 10 Ufologists in a row and none of them will have a skeptics eye. Tom Delong is a great example of this. Did a great job with the documentary, but he did a podcast and he believed literally EVERYTHING, including stuff that could be debunked by a 5 year old. Guy isn’t all that bright.

That Stanton guy did an AMA on Reddit a decade ago and it was a complete disaster. He didn’t answer any questions and plugged his book constantly.
By the way, the guy I quoted  
Big Al : 6/20/2021 10:17 am : link
as criticizing Friedman is Joe Nickell.

“Nickell received the 2004 Isaac Asimov Award from the American Humanist Association[44] and was a co-recipient of the 2005 and the 2012 Robert P. Balles Prize in Critical Thinking, awarded by CSICOP, now called CSI.[45] In 2000 was presented with the Distinguished Skeptic award from CSI.[46]

He was also presented an award for promotion of science in popular media at the 3rd Annual Independent Investigative Group IIG Awards, held on May 18, 2009.[47]

In October 2011 asteroid 31451 (1999 CE10) was named JoeNickell in his honor by its discoverer James E. McGaha.[48]”

I tend to agree with this foremost expert.
But Al..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/20/2021 10:26 am : link
skeptics aren't familiar with the "data".
Just saw this UFO image while taking the dogs for a walk  
Jimmy Googs : 6/20/2021 12:01 pm : link
in the park. A little blurry but definitely can make out some beings...




RE: But Al..  
BamaBlue : 6/20/2021 12:41 pm : link
In comment 15290370 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
skeptics aren't familiar with the "data".


I don’t think we have have seen any quantitative data. We have random, conflicting accounts and observations. We have hundreds of years of these accounts, but no frame of reference . In many ways our ‘science’ are cockroaches attempting to comprehend trigonometry.
Do me more thoughts from Nickell  
Big Al : 6/20/2021 1:49 pm : link
“ Nickell proposes that alien encounters are the result of misinterpreted natural phenomena, hoaxes, or a fantasy prone personality. To explain the evolving nature of alien sightings, Nickell told the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe podcast team,

I did an alien timeline, and did sort of Walt Disney-esque cartoon drawings of the different types of aliens, starting in 1947 with some little green men, and showing the sort of imaginative variety of alien types over the years, of hairy dwarves, and cyclopean figures, and robotic forms and blobs and just all manner. Just as people would imagine; if I asked someone to imagine an alien creature, it would be all over the place. But then, with the Betty and Barney Hill case, you began to get the little big-eyed, big-headed humanoid, and that type came back and back until now, if you go into a toy store and you look at aliens, you see pretty much that's the standard model. Very unlikely that if life developed on some distant planet, that it would look so much like us. We tend to make the various entities that we're interested in in our own image. And so Bigfoot is our big, stupid cousin from the past, and ET is our futuristic relative coming from the future back to save us. These are forms of us. Of course, ghosts are transparent forms of us; angels are us with wings, and of course, vampires are us with an attitude.[41]”
Religion and science aren't incompatible  
Dr. D : 6/20/2021 4:20 pm : link
This isn't directed at anyone personally. I just wanted to address the idea that "religion is anti science".

It's true that some leaders of organized "religion" have been anti science. And I don’t mean to offend any Catholics out there, but I think leaders of the Catholic Church have been doing more harm than good, for the faith, for several centuries. But that's a whole other topic.

I don’t agree, however, with the idea that belief in God or being a follower of Christ, is incompatible with belief in science. I'm a chemical engineer (retired). My wife is a molecular biologist (for one of the world's largest Pharmaceutical companies). One of the Pastors at our Church was a biologist before he became a theologian.

Many great scientists believed in God. Many were Christians, including Isaac Newton. A contemporary scientist, who might not be famous, (but maybe should be) is Dr. Francis Collins. He led the International Human Genome project and is an atheist turned Christian. He's a Neurologist MD with PhD in genetics. Was atheist through med school and gradually concluded that science and belief in God aren't incompatible and that science alone can't totally explain life. He says DNA is incredibly complex and calls it "the language of God".

Belief that the earth is only 6000 years old is NOT a "core tenet" of Christianity. A very small minority of people might believe that. Most do not believe the earth was created literally in 6 - 24 hour days. The Hebrew word used in Genesis, "yom" that is translated to "day", has multiple meanings, including era, age or period of unspecified time. Each "day" in Genesis could be tens of thousands, even millions of years. It's not important. Peter even said "a day is like a thousand years to the Lord".

As far as alien life, its existence would have no effect on my belief. It's commonly accepted that Moses authored the first 5 books of the Bible, including Genesis. It's not unreasonable to believe that God made known to Moses what was important for humankind. The creation and extinction of Dinosaurs or life on other planets didn't qualify as important.

I also wouldn't rule out the visitors being humans from the future.

It's kind of cray cray and I sure wish I knew what it was I saw that night in '98.

Peace, Love and Happy Father's day!
Just because scientists believe in God (at a much, much lower clip  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/20/2021 5:02 pm : link
than the general population) doesn't mean that most religions aren't at odds with science. There certainly are ones that aren't, but it's hard to make the argument the Abrahamic religions are. God made man in his image, how does that explain that we don't look anything like we did at the beginning of life on Earth? That we weren't even able to communicate verbally with each other until very recently? The interpretation of the Bible seems to conveniently change the further you get from the source, which is like an opposite game of telephone.

RE: Religion and science aren't incompatible  
Big Al : 6/20/2021 5:04 pm : link
In comment 15290549 Dr. D said:
Quote:
This isn't directed at anyone personally. I just wanted to address the idea that "religion is anti science".

It's true that some leaders of organized "religion" have been anti science. And I don’t mean to offend any Catholics out there, but I think leaders of the Catholic Church have been doing more harm than good, for the faith, for several centuries. But that's a whole other topic.

I don’t agree, however, with the idea that belief in God or being a follower of Christ, is incompatible with belief in science. I'm a chemical engineer (retired). My wife is a molecular biologist (for one of the world's largest Pharmaceutical companies). One of the Pastors at our Church was a biologist before he became a theologian.

Many great scientists believed in God. Many were Christians, including Isaac Newton. A contemporary scientist, who might not be famous, (but maybe should be) is Dr. Francis Collins. He led the International Human Genome project and is an atheist turned Christian. He's a Neurologist MD with PhD in genetics. Was atheist through med school and gradually concluded that science and belief in God aren't incompatible and that science alone can't totally explain life. He says DNA is incredibly complex and calls it "the language of God".

Belief that the earth is only 6000 years old is NOT a "core tenet" of Christianity. A very small minority of people might believe that. Most do not believe the earth was created literally in 6 - 24 hour days. The Hebrew word used in Genesis, "yom" that is translated to "day", has multiple meanings, including era, age or period of unspecified time. Each "day" in Genesis could be tens of thousands, even millions of years. It's not important. Peter even said "a day is like a thousand years to the Lord".

As far as alien life, its existence would have no effect on my belief. It's commonly accepted that Moses authored the first 5 books of the Bible, including Genesis. It's not unreasonable to believe that God made known to Moses what was important for humankind. The creation and extinction of Dinosaurs or life on other planets didn't qualify as important.

I also wouldn't rule out the visitors being humans from the future.

It's kind of cray cray and I sure wish I knew what it was I saw that night in '98.

Peace, Love and Happy Father's day!
As a fellow adherent of Bird, Stewart and Lightfoot, I tend to agree with most of what you said,
I consider my self a religious person...  
BamaBlue : 6/20/2021 5:30 pm : link
however, all we know about our beliefs has been handed down by humans. For that reason religion is about faith and not absolutes. IMHO, there are pieces of a great mystery, but it can't be taken too literally. Opponents of religion seize on the literal as evidence of it's failing; zealots of religion do the same to impose their will on others.

As with UFOs, there is something there that is real, but defies our understanding. It's another reminder to be humble and recognize there are so many things in our lives every day that defy explanation. I'm pretty happy we humans don't know everything... I love a good mystery.
Big Al  
Dr. D : 6/21/2021 9:47 am : link
I know you've had very bad experiences with your SIL and I'm sorry about that. She may have good intentions, but is really not the kind of "witness" or "disciple" a believer should aspire to be. Some believers do more harm than good, with the Bible thumping and the judging. I believe they're a small minority (these days), but they give Christians a bad name and a lot of non believers unfortunately think these misguided people represent all of us.

The thing is, if you were to sum up the New Testament in one word, it would be "love". Love God and love your neighbors. Peace!

RE: Religion and science aren't incompatible  
crick n NC : 6/21/2021 9:54 am : link
In comment 15290549 Dr. D said:
Quote:
This isn't directed at anyone personally. I just wanted to address the idea that "religion is anti science".

It's true that some leaders of organized "religion" have been anti science. And I don’t mean to offend any Catholics out there, but I think leaders of the Catholic Church have been doing more harm than good, for the faith, for several centuries. But that's a whole other topic.

I don’t agree, however, with the idea that belief in God or being a follower of Christ, is incompatible with belief in science. I'm a chemical engineer (retired). My wife is a molecular biologist (for one of the world's largest Pharmaceutical companies). One of the Pastors at our Church was a biologist before he became a theologian.

Many great scientists believed in God. Many were Christians, including Isaac Newton. A contemporary scientist, who might not be famous, (but maybe should be) is Dr. Francis Collins. He led the International Human Genome project and is an atheist turned Christian. He's a Neurologist MD with PhD in genetics. Was atheist through med school and gradually concluded that science and belief in God aren't incompatible and that science alone can't totally explain life. He says DNA is incredibly complex and calls it "the language of God".

Belief that the earth is only 6000 years old is NOT a "core tenet" of Christianity. A very small minority of people might believe that. Most do not believe the earth was created literally in 6 - 24 hour days. The Hebrew word used in Genesis, "yom" that is translated to "day", has multiple meanings, including era, age or period of unspecified time. Each "day" in Genesis could be tens of thousands, even millions of years. It's not important. Peter even said "a day is like a thousand years to the Lord".

As far as alien life, its existence would have no effect on my belief. It's commonly accepted that Moses authored the first 5 books of the Bible, including Genesis. It's not unreasonable to believe that God made known to Moses what was important for humankind. The creation and extinction of Dinosaurs or life on other planets didn't qualify as important.

I also wouldn't rule out the visitors being humans from the future.

It's kind of cray cray and I sure wish I knew what it was I saw that night in '98.

Peace, Love and Happy Father's day!


What a great post. Well done Dr.D.
👍
RE: Big Al  
Big Al : 6/21/2021 10:03 am : link
In comment 15290847 Dr. D said:
Quote:
I know you've had very bad experiences with your SIL and I'm sorry about that. She may have good intentions, but is really not the kind of "witness" or "disciple" a believer should aspire to be. Some believers do more harm than good, with the Bible thumping and the judging. I believe they're a small minority (these days), but they give Christians a bad name and a lot of non believers unfortunately think these misguided people represent all of us.

The thing is, if you were to sum up the New Testament in one word, it would be "love". Love God and love your neighbors. Peace!
I have never had problems with religious people. Just religious fanatics and those who want to push their religious views on others. My experience has been that you can not tell the goodness of a person by how religious they say they are. Some of the best people I know were religious and some total non believers. The same is true for horrible people. Off on a half hour for a great experience of a tooth extraction,
RE: RE: Big Al  
crick n NC : 6/21/2021 10:06 am : link
In comment 15290857 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 15290847 Dr. D said:


Quote:


I know you've had very bad experiences with your SIL and I'm sorry about that. She may have good intentions, but is really not the kind of "witness" or "disciple" a believer should aspire to be. Some believers do more harm than good, with the Bible thumping and the judging. I believe they're a small minority (these days), but they give Christians a bad name and a lot of non believers unfortunately think these misguided people represent all of us.

The thing is, if you were to sum up the New Testament in one word, it would be "love". Love God and love your neighbors. Peace!


I have never had problems with religious people. Just religious fanatics and those who want to push their religious views on others. My experience has been that you can not tell the goodness of a person by how religious they say they are. Some of the best people I know were religious and some total non believers. The same is true for horrible people. Off on a half hour for a great experience of a tooth extraction,


Absolutely true Al.
Good luck..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/21/2021 10:07 am : link
and stop gnashing your teeth:)
Big Al  
Dr. D : 6/21/2021 10:13 am : link
Good luck with the tooth extraction!
RE: RE: Religion and science aren't incompatible  
Dr. D : 6/21/2021 10:17 am : link
In comment 15290848 crick n NC said:
Quote:


What a great post. Well done Dr.D.
👍

Thanks crick n NC! I wasn't sure how the post would be received. Appreciate your feedback!
Re: The data  
mattlawson : 6/25/2021 11:35 pm : link
Project blue book. Friedman immersed himself in the actual reports. This isn’t Bigfoot folks. To say that military personnel are hoaxing the public when there’s video, radar, and multiple witness testimony and many more examples under lock and key from the government it’s really telling that none of the naysayers here have read a damn thing about this issue.
Re: religious world views of government officials  
mattlawson : 6/25/2021 11:39 pm : link
Lue Elizondo, former pentagon official studying UAP, has revealed that religious philosophical differences have prevented the advancement of study on this topic. If you don’t see that as problematic - I don’t know what to tell you.
RE: Re: The data  
Big Al : 6/26/2021 7:06 am : link
In comment 15294491 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Project blue book. Friedman immersed himself in the actual reports. This isn’t Bigfoot folks. To say that military personnel are hoaxing the public when there’s video, radar, and multiple witness testimony and many more examples under lock and key from the government it’s really telling that none of the naysayers here have read a damn thing about this issue.
This is just a repeat of the arrogant statement 1 above that if you disagree with me, you are ignorant of the facts ( the “data”).
Logically I dont understand how your position holds up  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 8:18 am : link
If one person has immersed themselves in a situation, the other hasn’t but disagrees with the conclusion of the first … who is truly arrogant?
RE: Logically I dont understand how your position holds up  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/29/2021 8:24 am : link
In comment 15295931 mattlawson said:
Quote:
If one person has immersed themselves in a situation, the other hasn’t but disagrees with the conclusion of the first … who is truly arrogant?


"Immersed" in what?? It's like saying if a person immerses themselves in PFF "data" that they are an expert on analyzing football players.

Maybe arrogance is a poor word choice. Maybe delusion or foolishness is a better one to describe observational accounts as "data" and then calling a person who looks at those accounts to fit his beliefs as an "expert".

There are proverbial "experts" on Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster and other unproven topics. But what does their expertise mean and what credibility does it hold?
Are we talking about  
Big Al : 6/29/2021 8:35 am : link
Matt in Syracuse who immersed himself in the draft or Creationists who immersed themself in the data found in the Bible? I have not so I guess I lose the right to offer counter arguments.?
Are you really comparing  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 8:40 am : link
Official sponsored studies like Project blue book and the Condon report To this bullshit? This is an arrogance, this is the argument from Ignorance
It's..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/29/2021 8:46 am : link
not about the reports. It is about assigning the "expert" label to a person who has studied the "data".

Neither of those terms in quotes above on this subject means a damn. Anyone can read reports and immerse themselves in the folklore. That doesn't mean they have expertise.
I don’t think you are willing to admit the unknowns here compels us  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 8:47 am : link
To seriously undertake a rigorous scientific study, going back decades as well as going forward.

The facts are these: The government has been studying the phenomenon for decades, they have been caught covering it up, lying about it, engaging in disinformation about it, and they’ve ruined peoples lives Who have tried to blow the whistle on this matter. They’ve stigmatized the subject matter, and have done everything in their power to steer people away from taking this matter seriously going back decades. In short, they’ve lied through their teeth about this.

You don’t do that for no reason.
RE: Are you really comparing  
Big Al : 6/29/2021 8:47 am : link
In comment 15295945 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Official sponsored studies like Project blue book and the Condon report To this bullshit? This is an arrogance, this is the argument from Ignorance
I am comparing those who somehow can’t accept different conclusions (or a lack of drawing a conclusion) to simply saying Let’s agree to disagree. I am content with saying this this but you apparently are not.
How..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/29/2021 8:53 am : link
does one undertake a "rigorous scientific study" on the unknown?

Is there some sort of science that will determine conclusively that not only does alien life exist, but that it has visited us several times a week?
mattlawson  
Jimmy Googs : 6/29/2021 9:16 am : link
IF the government is covering something up then where is that evidential proof?


Quote:
The facts are these: The government has been studying the phenomenon for decades, they have been caught covering it up, lying about it, engaging in disinformation about it,

RE: How..  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 9:21 am : link
In comment 15295954 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
does one undertake a "rigorous scientific study" on the unknown?

Is there some sort of science that will determine conclusively that not only does alien life exist, but that it has visited us several times a week?



That's a great question.
RE: mattlawson  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 9:26 am : link
In comment 15295963 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
IF the government is covering something up then where is that evidential proof?




Quote:


The facts are these: The government has been studying the phenomenon for decades, they have been caught covering it up, lying about it, engaging in disinformation about it,




I suggest you follow John Greenewald at The Black Vault and Steven Greenstreet. FOIA request redactions, classified portions of briefing and reports that are not released to the public show quite clearly the government is not disclosing all they know. That's pretty simple math.

These two working together also caught the Pentagon in a lie, to the point where press secretary was changed and statements amended when they caught the DOD in a lie. That is just one recent case post 2017 NYT article.

This stuff has been going on for decades.

Lue Elizondo's files were also "destroyed" recently
On the topic of science..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/29/2021 9:32 am : link
when a phenomenon is studied that doesn't have factual data, it often looks at the process or creates a control to compare it against. Take the subject of dowsing for one - and there are some people who still believe in that, against the scientific conclusion. How did science work to arrive at a conclusion? They took studies and tried to create trials where possible. That's difficult if not impossible to do with what we have on UFO's right now.

- Dowsing studies from the early 20th century were examined by geologist John Walter Gregory in a report for the Smithsonian Institution. Gregory concluded that the results were a matter of chance or explained by observations from ground surface clues

- Geologist W. A. MacFadyen tested three dowsers during 1943–1944 in Algeria. The results were entirely negative

- A 1948 study in New Zealand by P. A. Ongley tested 75 dowsers' ability to detect water. None of them was more reliable than chance. According to Ongley "not one showed the slightest accuracy."

- Archaeometrist Martin Aitken tested British dowser P. A. Raine in 1959. Raine failed to dowse the location of a buried kiln that had been identified by a magnetometer

- A 2006 study of grave dowsing in Iowa reviewed 14 published studies and determined that none of them correctly predicted the location of human burials, and simple scientific experiments demonstrated that the fundamental principles commonly used to explain grave dowsing were incorrect.

- A randomized double-blind trial in 2012 was carried out to determine whether homeopaths were able to distinguish between Bryonia and placebo by use of a dowsing method. The results were negative

Even with the above information, there are fools who will swear that dowsing truly works.
Going down the wrong the rabbit hole. Catching folks  
Jimmy Googs : 6/29/2021 9:42 am : link
in our government lying, redacting info and unnecessarily classifying materials is not uncommon throughout the years.
But its also not proof of anything, other than we seem to have certain flaws and weaknesses in our government.

I am asking where is the evidentiary proof that people outside the government have?
Or is the government in control of ALL evidentiary proof  
Jimmy Googs : 6/29/2021 9:46 am : link
that has been collected over the past 70+ years?
aliens only visit the US?  
giants#1 : 6/29/2021 9:50 am : link
Or is there a massive conspiracy between all the world's governments to keep the reams of "proof" away from the public?
Too many people...  
BamaBlue : 6/29/2021 9:53 am : link
are looking for scientific proof of something that defies science (as we know it) or a frame of reference within grasp of our knowledge. It's a tough nut to crack and it's not nice to admit, but there are some things our human minds just don't understand. This is one of those things.
RE: Too many people...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/29/2021 9:59 am : link
In comment 15295979 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
are looking for scientific proof of something that defies science (as we know it) or a frame of reference within grasp of our knowledge. It's a tough nut to crack and it's not nice to admit, but there are some things our human minds just don't understand. This is one of those things.


I don't think that's the case at all. Statements of proof, require proof.

I don't think we are the only planet with living life in the universe. I also don't think we are being visited by aliens. If one states definitively that we have been visited by aliens - show the proof.

It's not a difficult request.
RE: Too many people...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/29/2021 10:02 am : link
In comment 15295979 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
are looking for scientific proof of something that defies science (as we know it) or a frame of reference within grasp of our knowledge. It's a tough nut to crack and it's not nice to admit, but there are some things our human minds just don't understand. This is one of those things.


Probably okay with that statement Bama.

In the meanwhile, can someone just produce a reasonably clear picture or video that can be examined more closely on this topic.
RE: Going down the wrong the rabbit hole. Catching folks  
Jimmy Googs : 6/29/2021 10:33 am : link
In comment 15295976 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
in our government lying, redacting info and unnecessarily classifying materials is not uncommon throughout the years.
But its also not proof of anything, other than we seem to have certain flaws and weaknesses in our government.

I am asking where is the evidentiary proof that people outside the government have?


Said another way, there were a ton of conspiracy theories on the Kennedy assassination too. And quite certain our government needlessly redacted certain info and classified materials that they could have released over time. And maybe they even got caught in a lie or two because they were just being foolish versus nefarious.

But after nearly 60 years, the only evidential proof we have of anyone shooting in Dealy Plaza that day was a guy up on the 6th floor of the Book Depository building named Lee Harvey Oswald...
i'm completely fine knowing that the human brain  
UConn4523 : 6/29/2021 10:39 am : link
has its limitations in what it can comprehend. But we can all comprehend pictures/videos and if that's what most of the "evidence" is, then its completely fair to question what we've been given so far.

There's next to nothing to go off of and what does exist is highly debatable evidence that's at best, unclear.
RE: RE: Too many people...  
widmerseyebrow : 6/29/2021 11:29 am : link
In comment 15295982 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
If one states definitively that we have been visited by aliens - show the proof.

It's not a difficult request.


Seems like very few credible people are stating definitively that we've been visited by aliens. The government and former high ranking officials acknowledge that these things are 1) real 2) move in ways we can't explain and 3) are not our technology (and based on comments, are not Russia or China as far as we can tell).

Inductive reasoning is taking people to the alien or future human conclusion, but it's not even necessary. There's more than enough to chew on with 1, 2, and 3 and the implications of what we think is possible.
The simplest answer to me  
Mike from SI : 6/29/2021 11:42 am : link
is some type of military experiments, likely ours.

I think it's hard to assume these are military experiments from China and Russia, because if they truly had technology that much more advanced than ours, they'd be using it to their geopolitical advantage.

Maybe our friends over in England found some secret sauce and have been messing with us?

I don't think we can write off some sort of alien/other explanation but it's not the most likely scenario. The fact that these things almost always seem to happen near military bases or carrier groups means something.
One other thing based on some of the discussions  
Mike from SI : 6/29/2021 11:53 am : link
on this thread. There have probably been tens or hundreds of thousands of reports of people seeing angels over the last 2,000 years. One of the world's 2 biggest religions is based on an angel essentially downloading/transmitting God's will to a guy. (Which is different from the other biggest, where God's son himself visited and was murdered.) I happen to adhere to one of those religions and respect the other greatly.

That said, most people today don't think angels regularly visit our world. For whatever reason, humans tend to see things that probably aren't real. Back when everyone was more religious, it was angels. Now, it's aliens. Is this evidence that some higher consciousness is contacting us in ways we can understand? Maybe, I guess. But the sheer number of stories, sightings, visions, etc. does not necessarily make something real.

Fermi's paradox is a toughy, as is the fact that civilizations would have to reach maturity at around the same time over vast distances across the stars. Although I'd be scared sh**less if there are actually alien visitors, I'd like it to happen while I'm alive if it's ever going to happen. But so far there's nothing definitive.
RE: RE: Too many people...  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/29/2021 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15295982 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15295979 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


are looking for scientific proof of something that defies science (as we know it) or a frame of reference within grasp of our knowledge. It's a tough nut to crack and it's not nice to admit, but there are some things our human minds just don't understand. This is one of those things.



I don't think that's the case at all. Statements of proof, require proof.

I don't think we are the only planet with living life in the universe. I also don't think we are being visited by aliens. If one states definitively that we have been visited by aliens - show the proof.

It's not a difficult request.


Exactly! You can hypothesize all you want all day, but you can’t be like well we aren’t sure what it is so it’s probably aliens! Especially since the only images are totally inconclusive. It shouldn’t be tough to get clear picture in this day and age.
So glad you brought up dowsing  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 12:34 pm : link
where's wuphat? ;)

This gets into this woo woo area that begs the question someone raised earlier, could it be that certain phenomena cannot be studied scientifically? Do we need new science, understanding of physics, or data collection methods to ascertain what's actually going on?

If you saw that line in the congressional report - new science and methods needed to study further - isn't that exactly what has been said by people claiming this phenomenon is real all along? Eric Davis, Lue Elizondo, Chris Mellon, etc, etc, etc.

What if our current science, perception, technology, physical understanding of reality isn't enough? what then?

Should we go back to thinking that nothing at all is going on? back to the bottom of plato's cave?
Zeke - suppose for a second that they have definitive proof  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 12:36 pm : link
What would believable disclosure look like for you?

RE: One other thing based on some of the discussions  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15296046 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
on this thread. There have probably been tens or hundreds of thousands of reports of people seeing angels over the last 2,000 years. One of the world's 2 biggest religions is based on an angel essentially downloading/transmitting God's will to a guy. (Which is different from the other biggest, where God's son himself visited and was murdered.) I happen to adhere to one of those religions and respect the other greatly.

That said, most people today don't think angels regularly visit our world. For whatever reason, humans tend to see things that probably aren't real. Back when everyone was more religious, it was angels. Now, it's aliens. Is this evidence that some higher consciousness is contacting us in ways we can understand? Maybe, I guess. But the sheer number of stories, sightings, visions, etc. does not necessarily make something real.

Fermi's paradox is a toughy, as is the fact that civilizations would have to reach maturity at around the same time over vast distances across the stars. Although I'd be scared sh**less if there are actually alien visitors, I'd like it to happen while I'm alive if it's ever going to happen. But so far there's nothing definitive.


the bledsoe's would disagree with you
Mike - you might like to read this by Jacque Vallee  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 12:38 pm : link
Our age has generated, and continues to generate, mythical material almost unparalleled in quantity and quality in the rich records of human imagination. More precisely, people have very frequently reported the observation of wonderful aerial objects, variously designated as flying saucers, unidentified flying objects (UFOs), and so on. But investigators have neglected to recognize one important perspective of the phenomenon: the fact that beliefs identical to those held today have recurred throughout recorded history and under forms best adapted to the believer's country, race, and social regime.

Emissaries from these supernatural abodes come to earth, sometimes under human form and sometimes as monsters. They perform wonders. They serve man or fight him. They influence civilizations through mystical revelation.

These matters are the subject of Passport to Magonia, Jacques Vallee's seminal master-work that changed our understanding of the UFO phenomenon. An instant classic when first published in 1969, the book remains a must-have resource for anybody interested in the topics of UFOs and alien contact, as well as those fascinated by fairy folklore and other paranormal encounters.
Link - ( New Window )
related question - how does remote viewing work?  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 12:45 pm : link
a bunch of bullshit? why did the DOD study and utilize it for decades? Russell Targ's story is worth a listen
Link - ( New Window )
Surely..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/29/2021 12:49 pm : link
no BBI'ers believe in dowsing, right??

Then again - I guess we probably have a couple flat-earthers here so anything is possible.
having done it myself as a test  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 12:56 pm : link
it does work, i dont know why. it wasnt scientific but I did identify the location of a well on a property i was unfamiliar with. it doesnt mean i have 'talent' or anything - but I was certainly OPEN to the phenomenon working.

idiomotor right? kindof reminds my of the medical term idiopathic. essentially we dont know why it happens but it does.
RE: Zeke - suppose for a second that they have definitive proof  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/29/2021 1:08 pm : link
In comment 15296081 mattlawson said:
Quote:
What would believable disclosure look like for you?


Conclusive imagery combined with a mass report. Generally I’d say conclusive imagery would be enough, but in fact he next decade we are going to be in territory where that can be faked.
“New science and methods needed aka open up the piggy bank  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/29/2021 1:10 pm : link
This shit is so transparent to anyone that pays an iota of attention to our military industrial complex.
RE: Surely..  
giants#1 : 6/29/2021 2:11 pm : link
In comment 15296096 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
no BBI'ers believe in dowsing, right??

Then again - I guess we probably have a couple flat-earthers here so anything is possible.


You walked into that one...
believable evidence?  
giants#1 : 6/29/2021 2:15 pm : link
Something that is clearly and accurately measured by a reputable source. That can be visible/IR/radar or some other means, but it has to be beyond these blurry images or "eyewitness" accounts where the witness miraculously forgot their mobile phone with its HD camera.

And it can't involve some massive government conspiracy spanning decades.
Don't we already have believable evidence?  
BamaBlue : 6/29/2021 2:24 pm : link
I think it's pretty clear there is ample evidence that clearly shows there is something happening in our atmosphere, in the sea and on land that we don't understand. This evidence is leading to conclusions... aliens, time travelers, dimensional shifts, etc.

Even if you believe that we have physical evidence (craft, bodies, exotic metals), it doesn't seem like we even have the scientific or technical capability to duplicate it.
Please describe believable imagery  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 2:32 pm : link
That conclusively cannot be made by humans or is clearly not of earthly origin. And who / what body is a trusted source of Disseminating that credible information
RE: Don't we already have believable evidence?  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 2:33 pm : link
In comment 15296194 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
I think it's pretty clear there is ample evidence that clearly shows there is something happening in our atmosphere, in the sea and on land that we don't understand. This evidence is leading to conclusions... aliens, time travelers, dimensional shifts, etc.

Even if you believe that we have physical evidence (craft, bodies, exotic metals), it doesn't seem like we even have the scientific or technical capability to duplicate it.



Shhh… you’re jumping ahead ;)
No one can hide it anymore, we know it's not imagining.  
Klaatu : 6/29/2021 2:34 pm : link
Even the skeptics are unsure when they stop to think...

Waiting For The UFO's. - ( New Window )
But we don’t have ample evidence of anything really.  
Jimmy Googs : 6/29/2021 2:35 pm : link
When there is clear evidence that can be examined, then the UFO or object always seems to be logically explained. These traits always align.

When it is blurry, doesn’t exist or is an isolated sighting then we really just have a UFO. These traits seem to typical align.

People..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/29/2021 2:39 pm : link
using the term "pretty clearly" don't seemingly grasp what that means either scientifically or by conjecture.

If you think things are pretty clear, it is evidence of bias. And that is what the argumentation ends up being built around.

In this thread alone, how many times has matt told people several articles and interviews are "worth a read" or "worth a listen"
RE: Don't we already have believable evidence?  
giants#1 : 6/29/2021 2:41 pm : link
In comment 15296194 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
I think it's pretty clear there is ample evidence that clearly shows there is something happening in our atmosphere, in the sea and on land that we don't understand. This evidence is leading to conclusions... aliens, time travelers, dimensional shifts, etc.

Even if you believe that we have physical evidence (craft, bodies, exotic metals), it doesn't seem like we even have the scientific or technical capability to duplicate it.


There's evidence that something unexplainable is happening. That could just as easily be a balloon deflating (one instance the report referred too) or a natural phenomena or numerous other things.

We have no definitive evidence (that I've seen) of aliens or time travelers.
RE: Please describe believable imagery  
giants#1 : 6/29/2021 2:48 pm : link
In comment 15296202 mattlawson said:
Quote:
That conclusively cannot be made by humans or is clearly not of earthly origin. And who / what body is a trusted source of Disseminating that credible information


Publicly available information that can be vetted by experts or anyone who chooses.

Which is different than the former head of an agency claiming XYZ exists but he can't divulge anything else due to his security clearances (but don't forget to watch my show/buy my books!).
It’s a tough position to take outside of unknown.  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 4:02 pm : link
Do you have whistleblowers saying the government has proof of off world vehicles not made by humans. Others are saying they’ve been tracking and studying unknowns for decades and we don’t think it’s black projects or adversaries but won’t say conclusively what that leaves. Others still are saying that the secret is that they don’t want you to know how little they know about it. Can it all be true? I doubt it.

The conspiracy has always been that they’re hiding everything from us, now it seems to be that they don’t want you to know how derelict they’ve been because of philosophical differences in what’s possible and what isn’t Due to religious worldviews.

The rub for me is - what does credible disclosure truly look like when They’ve been deceiving, lying, covering up for so long about this. There is the element right now that thinks this is all for cash grab purposes, I think there’s something to be said for that.

But unknown aerial crafts that can out maneuver our best weapons, disrupt our nukes, and essentially run circles around us with physics that defy our understanding of what’s possible is currently the matter on the table. If you dont acknowledge that you’re not up on the facts by all available sources that we go on for practically every other facet of life that we live and gauge world events and their implications / consequences.

What if these aren’t ET but it’s been with us all along. What if it’s more spiritual in nature than physical. What if it can’t be studied scientifically, isn’t replicable. What if it IS black military projects and a paradigm shift in energy solutions has been possible for decades and we’ve been kept in the dark. And what of the lives this coverup has ruined and the inevitable lawsuits to follow.

I do not see how a clean, simple, verifiable disclosure can happen to satisfy everyone. I do not think the government is going to be compelled to admit anything. And to some extent we’re never going to get outside of defining what ‘unknown’ or ‘unidentified’ means.

Every single world leader would basically have to unanimously admit this all at the same time and provide historical context that can be corroborated by facts and disclosing everything their keeping classified. I just don’t see it happening.
RE: RE: Please describe believable imagery  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 4:06 pm : link
In comment 15296215 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15296202 mattlawson said:


Quote:


That conclusively cannot be made by humans or is clearly not of earthly origin. And who / what body is a trusted source of Disseminating that credible information



Publicly available information that can be vetted by experts or anyone who chooses.

Which is different than the former head of an agency claiming XYZ exists but he can't divulge anything else due to his security clearances (but don't forget to watch my show/buy my books!).



Lou left To The Stars to get out of the entertainment aspect of this media rollout. I think your characterization of the man is inaccurate.
RE: RE: Don't we already have believable evidence?  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 4:07 pm : link
In comment 15296212 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15296194 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


I think it's pretty clear there is ample evidence that clearly shows there is something happening in our atmosphere, in the sea and on land that we don't understand. This evidence is leading to conclusions... aliens, time travelers, dimensional shifts, etc.

Even if you believe that we have physical evidence (craft, bodies, exotic metals), it doesn't seem like we even have the scientific or technical capability to duplicate it.



There's evidence that something unexplainable is happening. That could just as easily be a balloon deflating (one instance the report referred too) or a natural phenomena or numerous other things.

We have no definitive evidence (that I've seen) of aliens or time travelers.


Absence of evidence (that you’ve personally seen) is not evidence of absence.
RE: believable evidence?  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 4:10 pm : link
In comment 15296188 giants#1 said:
Quote:
Something that is clearly and accurately measured by a reputable source. That can be visible/IR/radar or some other means, but it has to be beyond these blurry images or "eyewitness" accounts where the witness miraculously forgot their mobile phone with its HD camera.

And it can't involve some massive government conspiracy spanning decades.


So when the Nimitz incident has multiple radar, recordings, multiple eye witnesses that doesn’t do anything for you? You need to see a high res image with an alien in the cockpit of a tic tac? What else do you need in that case to make the leap?
The burden doesn't fall upon skeptics  
PwndPapi : 6/29/2021 4:14 pm : link
To disprove your conclusions. Period. Full Stop.
Here’s the official DNI report. Worth a read  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 4:20 pm : link
MOST cases are not birds, balloons, drones. Etc. full stop. I’ll take in the consider that over the decades there have been thousands and thousands of reports. Only one has be true out of all of those. Just one.

“Other: Although most of the UAP described in our dataset probably remain unidentified due to limited data or challenges to collection processing or analysis, we may require additional scientific knowledge to successfully collect on, analyze and characterize some of them. We would group such objects in this category pending scientific advances that allowed us to better understand them. The UAPTF intends to focus additional analysis on the small number of cases where a UAP appeared to display unusual flight characteristics or signature management.”

Link - ( New Window )
RE: The burden doesn't fall upon skeptics  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/29/2021 4:23 pm : link
In comment 15296279 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
To disprove your conclusions. Period. Full Stop.


Exactly. That this point is continually missed baffles me.
And..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/29/2021 4:26 pm : link
yet another piece "worth a read".

Exactly what makes these things "worth a read"? If I claim that a player is doing really well and I link to PFF to agree with that, should I really tell people it is "worth a read"?

There aren't people here linking to articles or podcasts that give a skeptical perspective and saying "Worth a listen". Why is the opposite true?
RE: Here’s the official DNI report. Worth a read  
PwndPapi : 6/29/2021 4:43 pm : link
In comment 15296284 mattlawson said:
Quote:
MOST cases are not birds, balloons, drones. Etc. full stop. I’ll take in the consider that over the decades there have been thousands and thousands of reports. Only one has be true out of all of those. Just one.

“Other: Although most of the UAP described in our dataset probably remain unidentified due to limited data or challenges to collection processing or analysis, we may require additional scientific knowledge to successfully collect on, analyze and characterize some of them. We would group such objects in this category pending scientific advances that allowed us to better understand them. The UAPTF intends to focus additional analysis on the small number of cases where a UAP appeared to display unusual flight characteristics or signature management.” Link - ( New Window )


Just because you haven't identified a cause doesn't = aliens. "Only one has to be true," isn't how serious people think, let alone what drives public policy, investment, science or strategic defense.
RE: RE: believable evidence?  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/29/2021 4:48 pm : link
In comment 15296274 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296188 giants#1 said:


Quote:


Something that is clearly and accurately measured by a reputable source. That can be visible/IR/radar or some other means, but it has to be beyond these blurry images or "eyewitness" accounts where the witness miraculously forgot their mobile phone with its HD camera.

And it can't involve some massive government conspiracy spanning decades.



So when the Nimitz incident has multiple radar, recordings, multiple eye witnesses that doesn’t do anything for you? You need to see a high res image with an alien in the cockpit of a tic tac? What else do you need in that case to make the leap?


Since you are in the spirit, there are a lot of things that really aren't discussed when it comes to the Nimitz incident. And a lot of it comes from a misunderstanding how radar works as well as the Navy pilots having some sort of infallible opinion. This like you say, is worth a read.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Texas UFO Incident...  
Leg of Theismann : 6/29/2021 5:09 pm : link
In comment 15289559 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 15289506 mattlawson said:


Quote:


In comment 15289131 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


In comment 15289088 mattlawson said:


Quote:


In comment 15289079 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


This was 1897 in Aurora Texas. There is a History Channel show on YouTube with details. Sadly, lots of details and some evidence, but no answers.



Great incident. NY post podcast Stephen greenstreet did a breakdown of that one with nick pope. Really fantastic story



Yep. Of all the incidents out there, this one stands out the most to me. Simply because there was nothing for the paper to really gain writing that story at the time. And the treatment of the pilot being given a proper burial and religious ceremony was really fascinating. It was just matter of fact.




In true Disney Cars fashion - the only explainable rationale is that the town was going to be passed by and it was drummed up for the tourism. I’m not saying I believe that or it’s solid conclusion - but that’s the caveat



Was tourism a revenue driver for small town America in 1894?


I wouldn't exactly just describe it as "tourism" the way we would think of it today. From 1870 to 1900, 170,000 miles of railroad was added to the United States. The towns and cities that the railroads went through and/or stopped in were obviously at a massive economic advantage. The "debunking" version of the story goes like this:

That was the tale sent to newspapers in nearby Dallas and Fort Worth one April day in 1897 by a local correspondent named S.E. Hayden. It was generally ridiculed at the time, and most citizens of Aurora still scoff. "Hayden wrote it as a joke and to bring interest to Aurora," says Etta Pegues, 86. "The railroad bypassed us, and the town was dying."

To be quite honest that sounds like a way more reasonable explanation-- a story that started as a joke and just grew and grew without anyone's ability at the time to really debunk it. It honestly makes a lot more sense than a "tiny spaceman" in a flying saucer being buried by the townspeople of Aurora.
Link - ( New Window )
...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/29/2021 5:15 pm : link
In comment 15296261 mattlawson said:
Quote:


But unknown aerial crafts that can out maneuver our best weapons, disrupt our nukes, and essentially run circles around us with physics that defy our understanding of what’s possible is currently the matter on the table. If you dont acknowledge that you’re not up on the facts by all available sources that we go on for practically every other facet of life that we live and gauge world events and their implications / consequences.



Don't acknowledge what? Where is the evidence of the aerial crafts you describe above and the events above happening?

Hopefully you are going to just point to the video of the blurry "tic-tac" in that article...
The..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/29/2021 5:53 pm : link
confluation of what is a fact permeates this thread.

There are little facts, but lots of speculation and conjecture.

Calling things "facts" isn't furthering the point.
RE: RE: Here’s the official DNI report. Worth a read  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 7:22 pm : link
In comment 15296300 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15296284 mattlawson said:


Quote:


MOST cases are not birds, balloons, drones. Etc. full stop. I’ll take in the consider that over the decades there have been thousands and thousands of reports. Only one has be true out of all of those. Just one.

“Other: Although most of the UAP described in our dataset probably remain unidentified due to limited data or challenges to collection processing or analysis, we may require additional scientific knowledge to successfully collect on, analyze and characterize some of them. We would group such objects in this category pending scientific advances that allowed us to better understand them. The UAPTF intends to focus additional analysis on the small number of cases where a UAP appeared to display unusual flight characteristics or signature management.” Link - ( New Window )



Just because you haven't identified a cause doesn't = aliens. "Only one has to be true," isn't how serious people think, let alone what drives public policy, investment, science or strategic defense.



No one - anywhere in the DNI report said aliens. Even the government insiders won’t say that. What they actually know and can’t say is intentionally left in the void of unknown.

The OP asked what we thought personally - I’ve given my opinion. It’s since gone down the rabbit hole of arguments from ignorance from those less familiar with what data actually exists and has been presented. Of course it’s not everything - it’s a miracle we got what we got in December 2017.

Healthy skepticism is great. Burying your head in the sand and claiming birds and balloons as a cause for something that has been divulged by the Pentagon to be an authentic data set of a craft of unknown origin with multiple military eye witnesses, multiple radar, multiple recordings only one of which has been released - you have to call that out at some point as being unhelpful to advancing the study of the phenomenon. It stands in the way of de-stigmatizing the topic and having a healthy dialogue about it.

I’m not sure what more you want that can be reasonably provided of the materials that are unclassified - aside from all governments simultaneously coming forward and showing all they have… It’s not going to happen in any satisfactory way to satisfy the nay sayers
RE: ...  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 7:25 pm : link
In comment 15296319 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15296261 mattlawson said:


Quote:




But unknown aerial crafts that can out maneuver our best weapons, disrupt our nukes, and essentially run circles around us with physics that defy our understanding of what’s possible is currently the matter on the table. If you dont acknowledge that you’re not up on the facts by all available sources that we go on for practically every other facet of life that we live and gauge world events and their implications / consequences.





Don't acknowledge what? Where is the evidence of the aerial crafts you describe above and the events above happening?

Hopefully you are going to just point to the video of the blurry "tic-tac" in that article...


You strike me as someone who has not looked into this topic beyond headlines and captions much.
RE: RE: RE: believable evidence?  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 7:30 pm : link
In comment 15296302 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15296274 mattlawson said:


Quote:


In comment 15296188 giants#1 said:


Quote:


Something that is clearly and accurately measured by a reputable source. That can be visible/IR/radar or some other means, but it has to be beyond these blurry images or "eyewitness" accounts where the witness miraculously forgot their mobile phone with its HD camera.

And it can't involve some massive government conspiracy spanning decades.



So when the Nimitz incident has multiple radar, recordings, multiple eye witnesses that doesn’t do anything for you? You need to see a high res image with an alien in the cockpit of a tic tac? What else do you need in that case to make the leap?



Since you are in the spirit, there are a lot of things that really aren't discussed when it comes to the Nimitz incident. And a lot of it comes from a misunderstanding how radar works as well as the Navy pilots having some sort of infallible opinion. This like you say, is worth a read. Link - ( New Window )


I’ve read it - and am familiar with the counter arguments.
You know what would help to de-stigmatize the topic?  
PwndPapi : 6/29/2021 7:30 pm : link
If crackpots didn't immediately flock to every unexplained situation with wild theories and start claiming that anyone not yet convinced has their heads buried in the sand.

It's this kind of mental short-circuiting that's led this country down the road to flat earthing, loose-changing, birther, anti-vaxxer, hydroxicloriquine peddling, wild ass guessing. It's why we're seemingly incapable of solving complicated problems.
RE: And..  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 7:31 pm : link
In comment 15296290 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
yet another piece "worth a read".

Exactly what makes these things "worth a read"? If I claim that a player is doing really well and I link to PFF to agree with that, should I really tell people it is "worth a read"?

There aren't people here linking to articles or podcasts that give a skeptical perspective and saying "Worth a listen". Why is the opposite true?



That’s not my problem people don’t know how to link to articles relevant to the discussion at hand. Plus :: a lot of people seem not to be all that familiar with the latest news on the topic
RE: And..  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 7:33 pm : link
In comment 15296290 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
yet another piece "worth a read".

Exactly what makes these things "worth a read"? If I claim that a player is doing really well and I link to PFF to agree with that, should I really tell people it is "worth a read"?

There aren't people here linking to articles or podcasts that give a skeptical perspective and saying "Worth a listen". Why is the opposite true?



That’s not my problem people don’t know how to link to articles relevant to the discussion at hand. Plus :: a lot of people seem not to be all that familiar with the latest news on the topic. Earlier in the thread people were thanking commenters for providing these sources and materials.

Can please some of the people some of the time… right?
RE: You know what would help to de-stigmatize the topic?  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 7:35 pm : link
In comment 15296401 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
If crackpots didn't immediately flock to every unexplained situation with wild theories and start claiming that anyone not yet convinced has their heads buried in the sand.

It's this kind of mental short-circuiting that's led this country down the road to flat earthing, loose-changing, birther, anti-vaxxer, hydroxicloriquine peddling, wild ass guessing. It's why we're seemingly incapable of solving complicated problems.



You’re right. And the spooky music and over produced bullshit intros. We are JUST on the way to that reality hopefully.
Tim McMillan’s latest piece in the debrief  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 7:46 pm : link
Helps set the stage for how we got here. Worth a ganders ;)
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: ...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/29/2021 8:04 pm : link
In comment 15296395 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296319 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15296261 mattlawson said:


Quote:




But unknown aerial crafts that can out maneuver our best weapons, disrupt our nukes, and essentially run circles around us with physics that defy our understanding of what’s possible is currently the matter on the table. If you dont acknowledge that you’re not up on the facts by all available sources that we go on for practically every other facet of life that we live and gauge world events and their implications / consequences.





Don't acknowledge what? Where is the evidence of the aerial crafts you describe above and the events above happening?

Hopefully you are going to just point to the video of the blurry "tic-tac" in that article...



You strike me as someone who has not looked into this topic beyond headlines and captions much.


I look into it as much as it interests me.

When phenomena like UFO sightings keep getting resolved with logical explanations, my interest wanes. When we are basically left with blurry, out of focus pictures and isolated sightings in the middle of nowhere that cannot be properly and fully investigated, I lose all interest. And finally, when I hear defenders caveat that this is all subject to governmental cover-ups that have gone on for decades, I type posts like you see in this thread...
 
christian : 6/29/2021 9:57 pm : link
If you’re willing to believe in something incredible, it’s important to be willing to believe you can be proven incorrect.

For those who believe there is reasonable evidence technology not of this planet has been discovered, are you willing to be proven wrong? That’s where I would start.
RE: …  
widmerseyebrow : 6/29/2021 10:14 pm : link
In comment 15296484 christian said:
Quote:
If you’re willing to believe in something incredible, it’s important to be willing to believe you can be proven incorrect.

For those who believe there is reasonable evidence technology not of this planet has been discovered, are you willing to be proven wrong? That’s where I would start.


Definitely. I'd like to hear some more theories on the natural phenomenon we might be witnessing that show up on radar, IR, satellite and are witnessed visually by the pilots. That would be a pretty incredible find as well.

I have to give Mick West credit: he's actually hit some keys on his keyboard and read and viewed the recent available information on the topic before attempting to explain it away. He has some ongoing discussions with those involved and theories, but I don't think he has hit the nail on the head yet.

The most dubious one seems to be the recent "pyramids" vid because it looks like a cell phone recording night vision and its hard to determine frame of reference.
Consciousness  
mattlawson : 6/29/2021 11:34 pm : link
all points in space and time are connected. That's my non-ET explanation. It's not supernatural per se, just hyper natural.

The stigma there of course forced those programs to close as well, religious implications there too. It's really a shame.. for all the talk of separation of church and state that we have the jesus freaks are shutting this shit down left and right ;)

It goes to ESP, Remote viewing, yes even dowsing. The US, China, Russia and other governments have used these techniques for some time. It's been declassified.

Annie Jacobsen's work is really interesting in that space. Her stance is the stigma on this comes from the Nazi's who were engaged in this pseudoscience and it's since evolved from there. After WW2 we split the Nazi files with the Soviets and it kicked off a paranormal war of sorts.
Stigmas, religious freaks, classified materials, destruction  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 8:29 am : link
of files, governmental cover-ups, and now the Nazis and Communists.

How about posting just one clear picture...
Start with this  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 8:48 am : link
I’ll work on a collection later today
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Here’s the official DNI report. Worth a read  
giants#1 : 6/30/2021 9:02 am : link
In comment 15296393 mattlawson said:
Quote:




No one - anywhere in the DNI report said aliens. Even the government insiders won’t say that. What they actually know and can’t say is intentionally left in the void of unknown.


You're just assuming they know more and can't disclose it. They willfully lead you on to believe there is more there, but you're really just guessing at what the 'gov't' is hiding and flimsily connecting dots to support your opinion/hopes.
RE: Start with this  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 9:13 am : link
In comment 15296573 mattlawson said:
Quote:
I’ll work on a collection later today Link - ( New Window )


I don't even know where to begin with this.

But look forward to your greatest hits collection coming up later...
I'm confused..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 9:17 am : link
about the talk track on dowsing.

It has been scientifically debunked. If you can't accept that, then you'll likely hold on to any shred of information about UFO's that has them as a possibility as "fact".

The way the word "fact" has been thrown around on this thread is evidence of that.
For reference  
crick n NC : 6/30/2021 9:22 am : link
I'm also very confused by this..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 9:33 am : link
tie to religion and religious freaks shutting things down:

Quote:
The stigma there of course forced those programs to close as well, religious implications there too. It's really a shame.. for all the talk of separation of church and state that we have the jesus freaks are shutting this shit down left and right ;)

It goes to ESP, Remote viewing, yes even dowsing. The US, China, Russia and other governments have used these techniques for some time. It's been declassified.


One country that has religious freedom (US) is being lumped with China and Russia who has restricted religious aspects. So who are the "jesus freaks" in the rest of the world that is putting the kibosh on things?

Maybe showing "facts" on how the rest of the world has put up a wall of secrecy would be "worth a read"
On assumptions of what govt officials have said  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 10:00 am : link
Yes that's true. Could it all be an elaborate ruse to simply fund their projects? Sure.
RE: On assumptions of what govt officials have said  
giants#1 : 6/30/2021 10:13 am : link
In comment 15296619 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Yes that's true. Could it all be an elaborate ruse to simply fund their projects? Sure.


It's not very elaborate. It takes far more leaps to get from their statements to aliens/time travelers/ESP then it does to 'my funding is low'..
RE: I'm confused..  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 10:44 am : link
In comment 15296585 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
about the talk track on dowsing.

It has been scientifically debunked. If you can't accept that, then you'll likely hold on to any shred of information about UFO's that has them as a possibility as "fact".

The way the word "fact" has been thrown around on this thread is evidence of that.


The fact is this work has happened. That we don't know WHY it works hasn't preclude the usage of these methods, and that it has worked with a high degree of precision. Even contractors that visit the site of a problematic well still resort to dowsing. In my experience the majority recommend it.

So ESP, or Remote viewing, map dowsing, psychic abilities... something that has been "scientifically debunked" but was used by DOD for 20+ years and the CIA, funded until the stigma and religious couldn't handle it within government ('if it's not from jesus it's demonic' per Russell Targ linked above), and yet it has a track record of success, how is that explained?

How does remote viewing work?
How does anesthesia work?
Hell, how does gravity work? Scientists still don't really know.

What is your comfortability with admitting that perhaps people in high places use methods that are controversial and do not understand how they work, but agree that they do in fact work well enough to achieve a particular goal.

Science is an amazing method and tool. It's been indescribably important to advance humanity. There's still a ton we don't know about the nature of the universe, our beginnings, our reality, the nature of these phenomena we've been talking about - and I would not be so sure that we have a great handle on these areas of unknown phenomenon, and citing the report from the govt just released new forms of science may be needed to answer for everything we've been experiencing.

Spooky action at a distance, while Einstein couldn't get his head around it, seems more and more like the ways of the world. I'm open, why are you sure to be closed?
we don't know how gravity works?  
giants#1 : 6/30/2021 10:51 am : link
Are you actually serious? We've launched hundreds of satellites into orbit including sending probes out of this solar system. If we didn't understand gravity, none of that would happen. Nor would GPS, especially with precision measured in the mm.

You are really whacked..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 11:06 am : link
now. We don't know how anesthesia works?? Of course we do. We know exactly what to give to a person and in what dosage to keep them from feeling pain. This is bordering on ridiculousness know.

Dowsing was debunked to placate religious people? Science doesn't cater to religion. It doesn't set out to debunk. It sets out to let the facts decide the outcome

Dowsing is neither a recommended practice, nor is it effective. Scientific studies have proven that. You keep using the word "fact" continuing to not have a clue what that word means. There are no facts that show dowsing works. It is not a "fact" that it is a proven practice. The opposite is actually true. Scientific methods cannot show that dowsing is any better than a random guess.

Next thing you'll be telling us is because people have won the lottery that there is a proven system to determine winning numbers. And believe it or not, there are fools who think that is actually true.
Next..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 11:09 am : link
subject Ouija boards. Real professors of the faith or instruments to mock the religious freaks?
RE: Next..  
Big Al : 6/30/2021 11:16 am : link
In comment 15296668 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
subject Ouija boards. Real professors of the faith or instruments to mock the religious freaks?
” The Bible says not to seek out wizards, soothsayers, sorcerer's, spiritists, nor to mess with any form of witchcraft or divination. In fact, the OT Law states that those who practice such things are to be put to death. This stuff is not a game. It may seem like nothing happens on the surface, but what is really happening is when you play with these boards, you're contacting demons. And all they want is to gain access into your lives so they can cause havoc, and ultimately drag your souls to hell when you die. Guys, you don't need to turn to occultic items to seek supernatural power or consolation. You don't need to call down a curse on your hrs or families that will produce life-long consequences. There's a better way, and that better way is through Jesus.”
RE: You are really whacked..  
Big Al : 6/30/2021 11:17 am : link
In comment 15296664 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
now. We don't know how anesthesia works?? Of course we do. We know exactly what to give to a person and in what dosage to keep them from feeling pain. This is bordering on ridiculousness know.

Dowsing was debunked to placate religious people? Science doesn't cater to religion. It doesn't set out to debunk. It sets out to let the facts decide the outcome

Dowsing is neither a recommended practice, nor is it effective. Scientific studies have proven that. You keep using the word "fact" continuing to not have a clue what that word means. There are no facts that show dowsing works. It is not a "fact" that it is a proven practice. The opposite is actually true. Scientific methods cannot show that dowsing is any better than a random guess.

Next thing you'll be telling us is because people have won the lottery that there is a proven system to determine winning numbers. And believe it or not, there are fools who think that is actually true.
This thread has now officially gone completely off the rails.
Lets stay focused. Put together that collection of UFO  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 11:18 am : link
pictures first.

Tomorrow, we can tackle gravity and anesthesia...
RE: Lets stay focused. Put together that collection of UFO  
giants#1 : 6/30/2021 11:19 am : link
In comment 15296675 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
pictures first.

Tomorrow, we can tackle gravity and anesthesia...


Can Friday be 'dowsing day'?
RE: RE: Lets stay focused. Put together that collection of UFO  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 11:25 am : link
In comment 15296676 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15296675 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


pictures first.

Tomorrow, we can tackle gravity and anesthesia...



Can Friday be 'dowsing day'?


Yeah let’s all try it
RE: RE: Lets stay focused. Put together that collection of UFO  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 11:31 am : link
In comment 15296676 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15296675 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


pictures first.

Tomorrow, we can tackle gravity and anesthesia...



Can Friday be 'dowsing day'?


Okay, but somewhere in there I will need to be on the beach or the golf course.

I may even throw my dowsing rod in my golf bag to help me identify and avoid the water hazards. And hopefully my ball doesn't collide with all the UFOs flying around the coast of Florida and ruin my game. Also will be adding some extra weight on my golf cart before I go out as I would hate if we ran out of gravity over the busy holiday weekend and that floated away...
RE: Lets stay focused. Put together that collection of UFO  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 11:34 am : link
In comment 15296675 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
pictures first.

Tomorrow, we can tackle gravity and anesthesia...


I can’t do it from my phone so I’m gonna have to sit down and do a proper with image tags and make sure everything comes through OK

I’m good for it
RE: RE: Lets stay focused. Put together that collection of UFO  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 11:39 am : link
In comment 15296699 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296675 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


pictures first.

Tomorrow, we can tackle gravity and anesthesia...



I can’t do it from my phone so I’m gonna have to sit down and do a proper with image tags and make sure everything comes through OK

I’m good for it


Sounds good. But just provide the very best and clearest ones you can, quality over quantity.

Not interested in the black and white copies of Jupiter 2 from the 1965 television show "Lost in Space"....
mattlawson  
widmerseyebrow : 6/30/2021 11:41 am : link
You ever read Irreducible Mind?
RE: RE: RE: Lets stay focused. Put together that collection of UFO  
giants#1 : 6/30/2021 11:42 am : link
In comment 15296694 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15296676 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 15296675 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


pictures first.

Tomorrow, we can tackle gravity and anesthesia...



Can Friday be 'dowsing day'?



Okay, but somewhere in there I will need to be on the beach or the golf course.

I may even throw my dowsing rod in my golf bag to help me identify and avoid the water hazards. And hopefully my ball doesn't collide with all the UFOs flying around the coast of Florida and ruin my game. Also will be adding some extra weight on my golf cart before I go out as I would hate if we ran out of gravity over the busy holiday weekend and that floated away...


Happened to me once. Hit the perfect shot and was on target for a hole-in-one before gravity turned off and it floated off into the water...
The gravity..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 11:53 am : link
angle is a bizarre one as well. We absolutely understand what gravity is. We can record it and measure it. It's like saying we don't know what magnetism is.

Things like anesthesia, gravity, magnetism are measured and can be controlled. Dowsing can not be either. I'm wondering how those other subjects became a jumping off point?

If you truly don't think those other items cannot be explained yet you talk about facts with aliens, there is a massive distortion of reality in this discussion.
Big Al  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 11:59 am : link
Ouija experience?
RE: The gravity..  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15296721 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
angle is a bizarre one as well. We absolutely understand what gravity is. We can record it and measure it. It's like saying we don't know what magnetism is.

Things like anesthesia, gravity, magnetism are measured and can be controlled. Dowsing can not be either. I'm wondering how those other subjects became a jumping off point?

If you truly don't think those other items cannot be explained yet you talk about facts with aliens, there is a massive distortion of reality in this discussion.


Knowing how something behaves and knowing what it is, how it came into being, and having an intricate knowledge of its mechanisms… that’s the distinction I’m drawing. It’s still being studied today for a reason. Standing on the shoulders of giants and building off assumptions has gotten us this far. There is still much disagreement in the scientific community about the nature of gravity.
What is of dispute regarding the nature of Gravity?  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 12:10 pm : link
.
RE: RE: The gravity..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 12:12 pm : link
In comment 15296734 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296721 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


angle is a bizarre one as well. We absolutely understand what gravity is. We can record it and measure it. It's like saying we don't know what magnetism is.

Things like anesthesia, gravity, magnetism are measured and can be controlled. Dowsing can not be either. I'm wondering how those other subjects became a jumping off point?

If you truly don't think those other items cannot be explained yet you talk about facts with aliens, there is a massive distortion of reality in this discussion.



Knowing how something behaves and knowing what it is, how it came into being, and having an intricate knowledge of its mechanisms… that’s the distinction I’m drawing. It’s still being studied today for a reason. Standing on the shoulders of giants and building off assumptions has gotten us this far. There is still much disagreement in the scientific community about the nature of gravity.


That's ridiculous. That explanation can be used for anything in Nature today. Time, temperature, wavelengths, radiation, etc. And that et cetera literally would cover millions of other examples.
And when..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 12:13 pm : link
you reference the "scientific community", I'm not exactly sure whom you are speaking of. There isn't disagreement on many of the subjects you're talking about.
 
christian : 6/30/2021 12:18 pm : link
Attempting doesn’t equate to success. Can anyone provide any evidence dowsing, ESP, etc. in any scientific experimental environment has worked beyond the odds of chance?

Fat Man: "We don’t know what gravity is."  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 12:20 pm : link
Richard Panek is a Guggenheim Fellow in science writing, and the author of “The Trouble with Gravity: Solving the Mystery Beneath Our Feet.”

Sounds like this binary conundrum you've envisioned for yourself is a lot grayer than you thought
Link - ( New Window )
RE: …  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 12:20 pm : link
In comment 15296744 christian said:
Quote:
Attempting doesn’t equate to success. Can anyone provide any evidence dowsing, ESP, etc. in any scientific experimental environment has worked beyond the odds of chance?


Beyond the odds of chance - how does 9/9 times work for you?
 
christian : 6/30/2021 12:24 pm : link
Gravity is a bad example. Although we don’t completely understand what it is, in a controlled, predictable setting, we can measure and predict the outcomes.

In a controlled setting, the force of gravity is 100% predictable.

Where is there evidence in a controlled setting, the efficacy of dowsing is any more predictable than chance?
RE: RE: …  
christian : 6/30/2021 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15296746 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296744 christian said:


Quote:


Attempting doesn’t equate to success. Can anyone provide any evidence dowsing, ESP, etc. in any scientific experimental environment has worked beyond the odds of chance?




Beyond the odds of chance - how does 9/9 times work for you?


Let’s all take a look at this evidence together
RE: RE: …  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15296746 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296744 christian said:


Quote:


Attempting doesn’t equate to success. Can anyone provide any evidence dowsing, ESP, etc. in any scientific experimental environment has worked beyond the odds of chance?




Beyond the odds of chance - how does 9/9 times work for you?


Let me repost what I did earlier about dowsing:

Quote:

- Dowsing studies from the early 20th century were examined by geologist John Walter Gregory in a report for the Smithsonian Institution. Gregory concluded that the results were a matter of chance or explained by observations from ground surface clues

- Geologist W. A. MacFadyen tested three dowsers during 1943–1944 in Algeria. The results were entirely negative

- A 1948 study in New Zealand by P. A. Ongley tested 75 dowsers' ability to detect water. None of them was more reliable than chance. According to Ongley "not one showed the slightest accuracy."

- Archaeometrist Martin Aitken tested British dowser P. A. Raine in 1959. Raine failed to dowse the location of a buried kiln that had been identified by a magnetometer

- A 2006 study of grave dowsing in Iowa reviewed 14 published studies and determined that none of them correctly predicted the location of human burials, and simple scientific experiments demonstrated that the fundamental principles commonly used to explain grave dowsing were incorrect.

- A randomized double-blind trial in 2012 was carried out to determine whether homeopaths were able to distinguish between Bryonia and placebo by use of a dowsing method. The results were negative


The 9/9 figure means little - the scientific experiments - numerous ones show otherwise
RE: …  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15296744 christian said:
Quote:
Attempting doesn’t equate to success. Can anyone provide any evidence dowsing, ESP, etc. in any scientific experimental environment has worked beyond the odds of chance?



Here is a PDF of a very interesting study measuring ESP effects on stock market gains. You'll see the Targ reference with precedents that I've linked several times here.

What does it have to do with UFO's? Hal Puthoff was involved and helped fund further study with the proceeds from the stock investment trial. Hal is co-founder and VP of Science + Technology for TTSA.

Regarding the stigma - from this study: "The single largest criticism that can be said about previous research into ARV is that not enough of it has been carried out, reviewed, and published."

So if you could make money from this talent why don't people? Turns out they do.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: The gravity..  
giants#1 : 6/30/2021 12:36 pm : link
In comment 15296734 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296721 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


angle is a bizarre one as well. We absolutely understand what gravity is. We can record it and measure it. It's like saying we don't know what magnetism is.

Things like anesthesia, gravity, magnetism are measured and can be controlled. Dowsing can not be either. I'm wondering how those other subjects became a jumping off point?

If you truly don't think those other items cannot be explained yet you talk about facts with aliens, there is a massive distortion of reality in this discussion.



Knowing how something behaves and knowing what it is, how it came into being, and having an intricate knowledge of its mechanisms… that’s the distinction I’m drawing. It’s still being studied today for a reason. Standing on the shoulders of giants and building off assumptions has gotten us this far. There is still much disagreement in the scientific community about the nature of gravity.


Pretty much the only thing 'in dispute' of gravity is how it relates to the other fundamental forces. Beyond that, we literally understand gravity well enough to account for the fact that the clocks on GPS satellites tick faster than clocks on the ground by ~40 microseconds/day. GPS literally wouldn't work if our understanding of gravity was off.
again  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 12:42 pm : link
knowing how it behaves in certain circumstances is still an assumption about its nature. like the dual nature of light. even when thought to be fully understood, it wasnt.
RE: again  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 12:53 pm : link
In comment 15296764 mattlawson said:
Quote:
knowing how it behaves in certain circumstances is still an assumption about its nature. like the dual nature of light. even when thought to be fully understood, it wasnt.


Again - this explanation can be used about anything in Nature. Anything that isn't man made are going to have certain assumptions. What the origin of elements, molecules, organisms, all is up in the air using this foolish line of thinking. We can quantify the unknown - and it no longer is unknown. You can't even quantify dowsing.

And back to that topic - are you really intimating that dowsing is legitimate and one of the reasons it isn't confirmed by science is due to pressure from religious people? I believe that's what I read above.
RE: RE: again  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 1:05 pm : link
In comment 15296768 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15296764 mattlawson said:


Quote:


knowing how it behaves in certain circumstances is still an assumption about its nature. like the dual nature of light. even when thought to be fully understood, it wasnt.



Again - this explanation can be used about anything in Nature. Anything that isn't man made are going to have certain assumptions. What the origin of elements, molecules, organisms, all is up in the air using this foolish line of thinking. We can quantify the unknown - and it no longer is unknown. You can't even quantify dowsing.

And back to that topic - are you really intimating that dowsing is legitimate and one of the reasons it isn't confirmed by science is due to pressure from religious people? I believe that's what I read above.



Not dowsing - that was misconstrued/conflated in a comment. My actual point was when asked why did funding stop for ESP/RV projects in the DOD and CIA Russell Targ said the stigma became too great doing that kind of work for their sponsors to defend after a leadership change, and the religious within government felt it was antithetical to their beliefs. That's what Targ has said.
Earlier in the thread - regarding Lue Elizondo  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 1:08 pm : link
He has made the same claim about 'philosophical differences' leading to the cancelling of his UFO research program within the DOD. When pressed, he intimated that the religious within government felt it was antithetical to their beliefs. Seeing a pattern form?

Kinda why I'm bringing it up
Just leaving this here  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 1:10 pm : link
Promised to start showing pictures. Wanted to lead off with this one which gets things back to the OP

RE: again  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 1:12 pm : link
In comment 15296764 mattlawson said:
Quote:
knowing how it behaves in certain circumstances is still an assumption about its nature. like the dual nature of light. even when thought to be fully understood, it wasnt.



You are creating a wider and wider spread between speaking logically about science & nature and defending the existence of phenomena such as UFOs...
Costa Rica, 1971  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 1:15 pm : link
I dig this one, pretty cool looking



"On September 4, 1971, the Costa Rican National Geographic Institute was taking aerial photos from 10,000 feet of Lake Cote, the small body of water that would later become the larger Lake Arenal, as part of preliminary studies for the future hydroelectric project."
RE: RE: again  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15296786 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15296764 mattlawson said:


Quote:


knowing how it behaves in certain circumstances is still an assumption about its nature. like the dual nature of light. even when thought to be fully understood, it wasnt.




You are creating a wider and wider spread between speaking logically about science & nature and defending the existence of phenomena such as UFOs...



Binary thinking is good for some things. Not this topic. Get used to it
if Remote Viewing worked  
giants#1 : 6/30/2021 1:20 pm : link
why isn't Targ a billionaire? Surely a Hedge Fund would've gladly given him some money to generate real profits in the markets!
RE: if Remote Viewing worked  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 1:33 pm : link
In comment 15296796 giants#1 said:
Quote:
why isn't Targ a billionaire? Surely a Hedge Fund would've gladly given him some money to generate real profits in the markets!


Can’t answer that question. But it did work and has been used for a variety of purposes
RE: RE: if Remote Viewing worked  
PwndPapi : 6/30/2021 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15296810 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296796 giants#1 said:


Quote:


why isn't Targ a billionaire? Surely a Hedge Fund would've gladly given him some money to generate real profits in the markets!



Can’t answer that question. But it did work and has been used for a variety of purposes



Or...DOD viewed the "research" as a dead-end didn't see any point in continuing to fund it. Targ's inability to gain funding from private or NGOs since leads me to believe that to be the case, as the other poster pointed out.
Or his research into Buddhism  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 1:42 pm : link
Led him to his conclusion that nonattachment to an ego driven realty is more important than being a billionaire.

To each their own
RE: Or his research into Buddhism  
giants#1 : 6/30/2021 1:53 pm : link
In comment 15296815 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Led him to his conclusion that nonattachment to an ego driven realty is more important than being a billionaire.

To each their own


I'm sure that's the reason. Yet he continued searching for sources of funding for his reasearch...
RE: RE: Or his research into Buddhism  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 1:55 pm : link
In comment 15296823 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15296815 mattlawson said:


Quote:


Led him to his conclusion that nonattachment to an ego driven realty is more important than being a billionaire.

To each their own



I'm sure that's the reason. Yet he continued searching for sources of funding for his reasearch...



Again - can't answer the question to any satisfactory conclusion. Are you going to freak out with this binary world you've constructed for yourself or can you handle the gray area here.
This one has an interesting look to it - from Poland  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 2:00 pm : link
RE: RE: Or his research into Buddhism  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/30/2021 2:02 pm : link
In comment 15296823 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15296815 mattlawson said:


Quote:


Led him to his conclusion that nonattachment to an ego driven realty is more important than being a billionaire.

To each their own



I'm sure that's the reason. Yet he continued searching for sources of funding for his reasearch...


Or yet he has this simple way to make untolds amounts of money, give it up to do good in the world anonymously, but hasn't.
RE: RE: RE: Or his research into Buddhism  
giants#1 : 6/30/2021 2:03 pm : link
In comment 15296828 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296823 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 15296815 mattlawson said:


Quote:


Led him to his conclusion that nonattachment to an ego driven realty is more important than being a billionaire.

To each their own



I'm sure that's the reason. Yet he continued searching for sources of funding for his reasearch...




Again - can't answer the question to any satisfactory conclusion. Are you going to freak out with this binary world you've constructed for yourself or can you handle the gray area here.


What binary world? What gray area? I want simple questions answered. Are we really supposed to believe that all of the people capable of remote viewing are altruistic and wouldn't use their gifts to take advantage of others and prosper? And if they are altruistic, why not use those proceeds to help others?

How the fuck should I know?!  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 2:07 pm : link
If my answers frighten you though, cease asking scary questions! We all strive for simplicity in the world. Not everything is black and white. The world isn't a simple place dude though we strive to make it so.
RE: Or his research into Buddhism  
PwndPapi : 6/30/2021 2:09 pm : link
In comment 15296815 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Led him to his conclusion that nonattachment to an ego driven realty is more important than being a billionaire.

To each their own


I tell myself the same thing every time I pull a dud lotto ticket.
RE: How the fuck should I know?!  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 2:18 pm : link
In comment 15296839 mattlawson said:
Quote:
If my answers frighten you though, cease asking scary questions! We all strive for simplicity in the world. Not everything is black and white. The world isn't a simple place dude though we strive to make it so.


Your answers aren't frightening anyone. They have gone from odd to extremely bizarre, especially on the dowsing thing, the stance that gravity and anethesia are unknowns and assorted other ramblings.

Now, we're getting pictures that don't show anything as visual proof of UFO's? Most here don't seem to be striving for simplicity. Just plausible explanations for beliefs that seem to be pretty conclusive in your mind. When I hear the word "fact" used repeatedly - producing a fact, any fact would be helpful
If you can’t be entertained on the message board like this where can u  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 2:58 pm : link
Also the images that I showed SO FAR do not show UFO’s? What do they show?
mattlawson - Thanks for UFO pictures.  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 3:10 pm : link
Those flying saucers look just like what I would have imagined.
Must watch interview  
kelsto811 : 6/30/2021 3:15 pm : link
For anyone interested in this topic. Interview with Ross Coulthart Australian investigative journalist. He reveals some info in this one
Link - ( New Window )
RE: If you can’t be entertained on the message board like this where can u  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 3:21 pm : link
In comment 15296879 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Also the images that I showed SO FAR do not show UFO’s? What do they show?


LOL. One shows a circular form and the other shows trees with unidentifiable images on the top of them. How the hell can we tell what they are or aren't? Heck, in the second picture, it looks almost like a stealth bomber of sorts.
Fat man, what does UFO stand for  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 3:22 pm : link
RE: Must watch interview  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 3:23 pm : link
In comment 15296896 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
For anyone interested in this topic. Interview with Ross Coulthart Australian investigative journalist. He reveals some info in this one Link - ( New Window )



Good call. Love project unity
I know..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 3:26 pm : link
what UFO stands for. What is more unclear is if either picture actually shows objects. The first one in particular. How do you not know if it was a photo of a circular formation on the ground? How do you know that in the second picture the "objects" aren't just extensions to the trees?

You've produced an image from 1971 that shows something that can't be deciphered if it is an object and one from Poland that looks unrecognizeable in the distance.

Here's the other thing that never gets addressed. When UFO's are assumed to be alien, why do they take such different forms? Some are saucers, some are triangular banks of lights, some are tic-tacs, some are blockish. We must have several different alien civilizations monitoring us that avoid detection of a decent look at them.
Styles change in alien worlds  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 3:31 pm : link
just like here on earth...
UFO does not assume alien  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 3:37 pm : link
UFO assumes unidentified. UAP is the current term. Friedman preferred the older school "flying saucers" - I've shown you two of those.

Here's one with no trees and very clearly in flight in an active military space. This one was confirmed by the DOD to be authentic and of unknown origin.

RE: Styles change in alien worlds  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 3:40 pm : link
In comment 15296913 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
just like here on earth...



styles change, opinions vary

We've..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 3:41 pm : link
all seen these images and the like. What are you trying to prove??

One of the more famous and historic photos on the subject  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 3:42 pm : link
Farmer Paul Trent, shown flying over his farm in McMinnville, Oregon on May 11, 1950
Another relatively famous image  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 3:44 pm : link
A United States Coast Guard photographer, Shell R. Alpert, took a photograph that allegedly shows unidentified flying objects flying in a “V” formation at the Salem, Massachusetts, air station at 9:35 a.m. on 16 July 1952, through a window screen. (Official U.S. Coast Guard photograph: 5554. Library of Congress Control Number: 2007680837)

RE: UFO does not assume alien  
Big Al : 6/30/2021 3:44 pm : link
In comment 15296923 mattlawson said:
Quote:
UFO assumes unidentified. UAP is the current term. Friedman preferred the older school "flying saucers" - I've shown you two of those.

Here's one with no trees and very clearly in flight in an active military space. This one was confirmed by the DOD to be authentic and of unknown origin.

The bat signal?
On this image  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 3:45 pm : link
High-altitude testing of the U-2 soon led to an unexpected side effect—a tremendous increase in reports of unidentified flying objects (UFOs) [known today as unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP)]. In the mid-1950s, most commercial airliners flew at altitudes between 10,000 and 20,000 feet and military aircraft like the B-47s operated at altitudes below 40,000 feet. Consequently, once U-2s started flying at altitudes above 60,000 feet, air traffic controllers began receiving increasing numbers of UFO reports.

Such reports were most prevalent in the early evening hours from pilots of airliners flying from east to west. When the sun dropped below the horizon of an airliner flying at 20,000 feet, the plane was in darkness. But, if a U-2 was airborne in the vicinity of the airliner at the same time, its horizon from an altitude of 60,000 feet was considerably more distant, and, being so high in the sky, its silver wings would catch and reflect the rays of the sun and appear to the airliner pilot, 40,000 feet below, to be fiery objects. Even during daylight hours, the silver bodies of the high- flying U-2s could catch the sun and cause reflections or glints that could be seen at lower altitudes and even on the ground. At this time, no one believed manned flight was possible above 60,000 feet, so no one expected to see an object so high in the sky.

Not only did the airline pilots report their sightings to air traffic controllers, but they and ground-based observers also wrote letters to the Air Force unit at Wright Air Development Command in Dayton charged with investigating such phenomena. This, in turn, led to the Air Force's Operation Blue Book. Based at Wright-Patterson, the operation collected all reports of UFO sightings. Air Force investigators then attempted to explain such sightings by linking them to natural phenomena. Blue Book investigators regularly called on the [Central Intelligence] Agency's Project staff in Washington to check reported UFO sightings against U-2 flight logs. This enabled the investigators to eliminate a majority of the UFO reports, although they could not reveal to the letter writers the true cause of the UFO sightings. U-2 and later OXCART flights accounted for more than one-half of all UFO reports during the late 1950s and most of the 1960s.
Link - ( New Window )
Alright..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 3:46 pm : link
we're officially off the rails now.

Should have foreseen that when dowsing was considered legitimate.
Speaking of bat signals - these were released earlier this year  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 3:48 pm : link
RE: Alright..  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 3:48 pm : link
In comment 15296937 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
we're officially off the rails now.

Should have foreseen that when dowsing was considered legitimate.



You're glib bud. Sorry
The puerto rico incident  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 3:50 pm : link
Filmed going from the air into the water and separating

Chicago, Ohare 2006  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 3:55 pm : link
The only 2 images of this one that went viral and remember it well. Apparently left a hole in the clouds after it took of vertically with instantaneous acceleration. FAA recordings exist, linked.



Listen to the audio. Stigma...
Link - ( New Window )
I saw one just like this myself in North Myrtle Beach a few years ago  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 4:00 pm : link
Right outside Alligator Adventure park. Military copters around - I was pretty sure it was related to their activity.



Video linked
Link - ( New Window )
I want to believe, but none of this is compelling.  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/30/2021 4:19 pm : link
.
So far, the most authentic looking picture  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 4:20 pm : link
is of the fishing lures...
RE: We've..  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 4:25 pm : link
In comment 15296928 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
all seen these images and the like. What are you trying to prove??


Sorry I missed this one, have you not been following along dude, people have been asking for photographic evidence.

On the dowsing thing, try not to get too bent out of shape. Haven’t done it myself the rods do move. It’s fun you should try it. It was enough to impress someone else who was observing the experiment and knew I was unfamiliar with this large property having water issues. It’s kind of amazing that a total novice like myself could locate a well on that kind of acreage with a clipped coat hanger.

Just because it doesn’t stand up to repeatable scientific double blind tests in a manufactured environment for the test does not mean the phenomenon isn’t real, it is. Just like idiopathic… the idiomotor - we don’t know why it happens but it does. And I don’t think it has anything to do with subtle cues in the landscape or the terrain, having done it myself there was a reaction due to shit in the ground. Electrical and water.

I’ve seen UFOs, one was likely man-made military but I’ve seen one with my own eyes. I’ve seen others that are more like orbs. I’ve seen them that are more like drones. But take it from me I was not born a believer I’ve just seen shit and experience things that are hard to fathom without being open to the possibility that we don’t know everything about this place. This thread is about exploring what it could possibly mean, so enjoy yourself while it lasts.
RE: I want to believe, but none of this is compelling.  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 4:26 pm : link
In comment 15296970 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
.


What’s not compelling, just five years ago UFOs didn’t even exist. Now the government in which they exist but they’re just saying they don’t know what they are. What are you looking for
RE: Alright..  
PwndPapi : 6/30/2021 4:27 pm : link
In comment 15296937 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
we're officially off the rails now.

Should have foreseen that when dowsing was considered legitimate.


Says the guy who doesn't know what UFO stands for. How binary.
RE: So far, the most authentic looking picture  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15296971 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
is of the fishing lures...


As an avid fisherman I totally get that. Authentic is an interesting word. The images whether they are of legitimate flying machines or phenomena that are not of human origin - they are authentic to the discourse of ufology and I find the topic interesting on that front alone
RE: RE: I want to believe, but none of this is compelling.  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/30/2021 4:50 pm : link
In comment 15296982 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296970 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


.



What’s not compelling, just five years ago UFOs didn’t even exist. Now the government in which they exist but they’re just saying they don’t know what they are. What are you looking for


High resolution camera where we can actually rule out other explanations other than alien flying machines. None of that applies. Yes they are admitting that people are seeing stuff whether by eye or radar, but their are a ton of things it can be before aliens. Once you rule those out, then we can discuss. And you aren't ruling it out into you get some high-resolution video where you can tell perspective (which as a Navy vet I can tell you is very hard to do by sea, and pracitcally impossible by air).
It's hard to discuss anything rationally with someone that refuses  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/30/2021 4:53 pm : link
to believe double-blind scientific studies that have a very simple control and variable. Yet grasps onto some blurry images as "data". I guess it's data, but it's not good or conclusive data that's for sure.
RE: RE: We've..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 5:06 pm : link
In comment 15296981 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296928 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


all seen these images and the like. What are you trying to prove??




Sorry I missed this one, have you not been following along dude, people have been asking for photographic evidence.



I missed where you've provided photographic evidence(stated as if it is fact), so I'm guessing we're at a bypass.....
I’m pretty sure  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 5:17 pm : link
These meat the criteria of unidentified flying object, particularly the one that was certified by the American government and department of the fence as being in authentic unknown aerial vehicle.

But I don’t know maybe I’m just on the wrong side of history here.

Did you mean impasse?
RE: It's hard to discuss anything rationally with someone that refuses  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 5:21 pm : link
In comment 15297009 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
to believe double-blind scientific studies that have a very simple control and variable. Yet grasps onto some blurry images as "data". I guess it's data, but it's not good or conclusive data that's for sure.



I had a nice response to this going that resulted in a sequel database error, and now I have to go into something else for the next several hours so I will be back in touch with you when I can about this
I'm pretty..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 5:22 pm : link
sure the request was to have a clear picture where we can discuss further:

Quote:
Stigmas, religious freaks, classified materials, destruction
Jimmy Googs : 8:29 am : link : reply
of files, governmental cover-ups, and now the Nazis and Communists.

How about posting just one clear picture...


But why do that when you can post a pic over Costa Rica in 1914??
RE: RE: I want to believe, but none of this is compelling.  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 5:57 pm : link
In comment 15296982 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296970 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


.



What’s not compelling, just five years ago UFOs didn’t even exist. Now the government in which they exist but they’re just saying they don’t know what they are. What are you looking for


They didn't exist, even as a phenomena? Most of your pics are from decades ago...
RE: I’m pretty sure  
UConn4523 : 6/30/2021 6:03 pm : link
In comment 15297028 mattlawson said:
Quote:
These meat the criteria of unidentified flying object, particularly the one that was certified by the American government and department of the fence as being in authentic unknown aerial vehicle.

But I don’t know maybe I’m just on the wrong side of history here.

Did you mean impasse?


I think that’s the only thing that we can all agree on - they are unidentifiable. That’s it, meaning it could be anything.

It’s a struggle for me to go much beyond that considering what we’ve achieved scientifically and technologically - space travel, modern medicine, middle defense systems, you name it. There’s no rational reason why we haven’t capture even a half decent video of a UFO. If all you’ve got is that our brain can’t comprehend it than my retort is that it mustn’t be UFOs in the shitty grainy footage then.
RE: RE: So far, the most authentic looking picture  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 6:08 pm : link
In comment 15296989 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15296971 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


is of the fishing lures...



As an avid fisherman I totally get that. Authentic is an interesting word. The images whether they are of legitimate flying machines or phenomena that are not of human origin - they are authentic to the discourse of ufology and I find the topic interesting on that front alone


The things in the pictures/vids are a mix of unauthentic flying objects meant to cause a hoax, unauthentic marks on the film or camera meant to cause a hoax, and some authentic flying objects that if there was a better, clearer and closer view would be reasonably identified as something other than a phenomenon.

But the fishing lures are a dead-ringer for fishing lures...no question.
RE: I'm pretty..  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 6:10 pm : link
In comment 15297034 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
sure the request was to have a clear picture where we can discuss further:



Quote:


Stigmas, religious freaks, classified materials, destruction
Jimmy Googs : 8:29 am : link : reply
of files, governmental cover-ups, and now the Nazis and Communists.

How about posting just one clear picture...



But why do that when you can post a pic over Costa Rica in 1914??


Always exaggerating for effect, it was 1971...

:-)
I also want to believe (I think)  
Mike from SI : 6/30/2021 6:17 pm : link
but am just not seeing it. It's an interesting topic and at some point when I have time (lol at free time) I would like to read one of the more comprehensive takes on aliens/unexplained, but tbh I'll be reading it as much as kind of sociology/anthropology than necessarily believing it.

In all of the conspiracy theories that turned out to be true (and I believe it's very few of them), hard evidence turned up. I eagerly await it here, but I'm not expecting it.

If this is all a hoax by the military to get funding, that would be the lamest of all explanations. If they actually have tech that can spoof radars and fuck with pilots, however, that would be kinda cool.
Ok - back in action  
mattlawson : 6/30/2021 9:32 pm : link
I’m simply posting the photos that I think are clear and interesting there’s a ton of granny videos and photos out there you’ve all seen the documentaries from James fox over the years - some really interesting craft have been filmed that who knows what the fuck they are.

But it’s pretty clear that the things that I’m posting or not birds, they’re not balloons, you can say they are photographic artifacts but I think that’s pretty much a stretch. They are not missing pixels like the Mars photos, they are interesting in and of themselves.

One in particular was not from eons ago but from 2004 and has been acknowledged by the military as being an authentic UAP. Meaning it’s not identifiable as a military craft, black budget or otherwise, it’s likely not adversarial technology either. What does that leave?

The point is UFOs exist and have. Open till 2017 that fact alone was debated, stigmatized, and anyone that would possibly come to the table of openness and explore it conversationally was ridiculed. Randy is probably smiling up at the stars right now knowing he’s at least due something from the bar tab from you fuckers who refused to except the fact that the government just admitted to the whole world that these things are real, they aren’t ours, and officially they aren’t sure what they are. I can’t except that I want you to ask yourself what would it actually take to convince you of anything. Is this fake news? Is it off the bored not allowed type of talk now? does it need to be political? Do you have so little faith in the news organizations that exist and by which we process every other piece of information that occurs on this planet? Where are we supposed to go from here when the government just admitted UFOs are real, these are authentic images of them, and the public still doesn’t believe it? What would it take?
RE: Ok - back in action  
PwndPapi : 7/1/2021 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15297204 mattlawson said:
Quote:
I’m simply posting the photos that I think are clear and interesting there’s a ton of granny videos and photos out there you’ve all seen the documentaries from James fox over the years - some really interesting craft have been filmed that who knows what the fuck they are.

But it’s pretty clear that the things that I’m posting or not birds, they’re not balloons, you can say they are photographic artifacts but I think that’s pretty much a stretch. They are not missing pixels like the Mars photos, they are interesting in and of themselves.

One in particular was not from eons ago but from 2004 and has been acknowledged by the military as being an authentic UAP. Meaning it’s not identifiable as a military craft, black budget or otherwise, it’s likely not adversarial technology either. What does that leave?

The point is UFOs exist and have. Open till 2017 that fact alone was debated, stigmatized, and anyone that would possibly come to the table of openness and explore it conversationally was ridiculed. Randy is probably smiling up at the stars right now knowing he’s at least due something from the bar tab from you fuckers who refused to except the fact that the government just admitted to the whole world that these things are real, they aren’t ours, and officially they aren’t sure what they are. I can’t except that I want you to ask yourself what would it actually take to convince you of anything. Is this fake news? Is it off the bored not allowed type of talk now? does it need to be political? Do you have so little faith in the news organizations that exist and by which we process every other piece of information that occurs on this planet? Where are we supposed to go from here when the government just admitted UFOs are real, these are authentic images of them, and the public still doesn’t believe it? What would it take?


Do you suppose the military (US or otherwise) is under any obligation to disclose whether a UAP was indeed an experimental craft under testing?

Do you suppose there's an inherent benefit to them denying such experimental craft exist?
Regarding experimental information being kept secret  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 2:32 pm : link
This has of course happened in the past. Classified information remains classified for reasons.
Beyond classified experimental projects (which these UAP could be)  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 2:49 pm : link
the DoD has actually been caught in a lie about Lue Elizondo's role. Press secretaries have been re-assigned, perhaps to apply different tactics to keep this story under wraps, because by all accounts the government has lost control of the narrative around UAP interest.

Here's Susan Gogh's comments about Lue:



Here's a screenshot of Lue's inbox while working for the DoD:



Beyond a game of semantics, his records were also supposedly deleted and unavailable for FOIA. Why is the government literally covering up this man's work and why are they attempting to discredit him?

Maybe Ross Coulhart has some good ideas why, starting to sound like Bob Lazar 2.0 to me...




Lue has said in no uncertain terms - these craft are real, it represents beyond next generation tech, it's not our tech, not our adversaries like Russia/China, and they are operating with impunity within our restricted airspace and have interrupted our military operations routinely. If this ain't us, and it ain't them - what does that leave?
.  
Bill2 : 7/1/2021 2:50 pm : link
If there was a real Identified Unidentified Flying Object, the military industrial complex would get a "counter measure" weapon funded.

It makes up enemies and threats to get funding.

But notice this isn't deemed credible enough to even drum up support for a prototype.

Doubt there is any cheese at the end of this tunnels. Might be trolls in the maze- but not cheese.

Imo
RE: .  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 3:00 pm : link
In comment 15297698 Bill2 said:
Quote:
If there was a real Identified Unidentified Flying Object, the military industrial complex would get a "counter measure" weapon funded.

It makes up enemies and threats to get funding.

But notice this isn't deemed credible enough to even drum up support for a prototype.

Doubt there is any cheese at the end of this tunnels. Might be trolls in the maze- but not cheese.

Imo


Bill do you think it's possible we've been developing black projects to address this potential threat all along?
I mean, lasers  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 3:13 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
What threat?  
BamaBlue : 7/1/2021 3:16 pm : link
The military is still in the crawl stage. They are still trying to figure-out how to collect 'decision quality' data.

The military is aware there is something, but they don't understand it and are incapable of defining it. There is no defense under those conditions.
Hawaii UFO  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 3:16 pm : link

Link - ( New Window )
RE: What threat?  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 3:19 pm : link
In comment 15297718 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
The military is still in the crawl stage. They are still trying to figure-out how to collect 'decision quality' data.

The military is aware there is something, but they don't understand it and are incapable of defining it. There is no defense under those conditions.


IF they are to be believed - seems like the debate on the forum here has revealed that many won't turn their head until an alien does it for them
Glad..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/1/2021 3:29 pm : link
to see more high-quality pictures to discuss....
RE: RE: What threat?  
Big Al : 7/1/2021 3:33 pm : link
In comment 15297721 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15297718 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


The military is still in the crawl stage. They are still trying to figure-out how to collect 'decision quality' data.

The military is aware there is something, but they don't understand it and are incapable of defining it. There is no defense under those conditions.



IF they are to be believed - seems like the debate on the forum here has revealed that many won't turn their head until an alien does it for them
Hard to believe that people don’t agree with your conclusions. Your posts have been absolutely convincing.
Discovery, SBS 48 1991  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 3:33 pm : link
video linked below


Link - ( New Window )
Great..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/1/2021 3:37 pm : link
now we even get blurry text!!

Again - what is the point of this fucking charade of posting images that show nothing?
Turkish UFO cases, 2008-9  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 3:37 pm : link
I remember when this came out- pretty cool looking. Was explained as a cruise ship.


Link - ( New Window )
RE: Great..  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 3:38 pm : link
In comment 15297736 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
now we even get blurry text!!

Again - what is the point of this fucking charade of posting images that show nothing?


keeping the thread alive, why else.
So..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/1/2021 3:40 pm : link
you've resorted to posting blurry, unrecognizeable things?

Letting the thread die might be a hell of a lot better, Chief.
What do the guys in westerns  
Big Al : 7/1/2021 3:44 pm : link
do when their horse breaks a leg?
RE: RE: RE: What threat?  
PwndPapi : 7/1/2021 3:47 pm : link
In comment 15297730 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 15297721 mattlawson said:


Quote:


In comment 15297718 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


The military is still in the crawl stage. They are still trying to figure-out how to collect 'decision quality' data.

The military is aware there is something, but they don't understand it and are incapable of defining it. There is no defense under those conditions.



IF they are to be believed - seems like the debate on the forum here has revealed that many won't turn their head until an alien does it for them

Hard to believe that people don’t agree with your conclusions. Your posts have been absolutely convincing.


C'mon. If that pixilated blue Hawaiin dildo hasn't convinced you, nothing will!
I'm still..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/1/2021 3:50 pm : link
trying to figure out if we were being punk'd earlier, or if a guy on BBI really believes in dowsing and stands by a 9/9 record.

And if so, who is patrolling the edge of the Earth?
RE: I'm still..  
Mike from SI : 7/1/2021 3:55 pm : link
In comment 15297750 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
trying to figure out if we were being punk'd earlier, or if a guy on BBI really believes in dowsing and stands by a 9/9 record.

And if so, who is patrolling the edge of the Earth?


I swear to the heavens I've avoided looking up what dowsing is but you have me close....
The Hawaii UFO is amazing  
UConn4523 : 7/1/2021 4:21 pm : link
haha
What is this  
Big Al : 7/1/2021 4:23 pm : link
“9/9”?
RE: RE: I'm still..  
Mike from SI : 7/1/2021 4:25 pm : link
In comment 15297752 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 15297750 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


trying to figure out if we were being punk'd earlier, or if a guy on BBI really believes in dowsing and stands by a 9/9 record.

And if so, who is patrolling the edge of the Earth?



I swear to the heavens I've avoided looking up what dowsing is but you have me close....


Update: I couldn't help myself and I hate you FMIC.
Mike...  
BamaBlue : 7/1/2021 4:30 pm : link
this link is for you. I think it just might change your life. Well... if it doesn't change your life, you might get some entertainment value.
Dousing for Beginners - ( New Window )
Ha! I hope this is enjoying for everyone. Truly  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 4:33 pm : link
You're conflating dowsing, AKA "water witching" and a personal story (and challenge for you all to try it sometime)...

With Russell Targ's success with remote viewing and investing in silver commodities at the Stanford Research Institute. 9 for 9 and 100K+ in profits.

If ESP / Remote Viewing / Dowsing is all related and connected to some overarching ability or natural capability - amazing. Fantastic. I have no idea if that's the case. I'm not claiming that it definitely is. All I know is these practices DO exist and have been studied by the DoD and CIA, there IS a track record of success, it's hard to study scientifically and a significant stigma exists on these topics. CLEARLY, scroll up.

I have personally dowsed out of curiosity. I am open to it as odd as it sounds. It looks fucking weird. It feels weird to do it. Foolish even! But the rods do move in response to what's underground. Within the little experiment I did I was in fact able to locate a hidden well on a property I had never visited before with no direction whatsoever, and a witness was present. It was enough to be 'interesting' for us. Impressive even.

This account is very consistent with the articles you read about that phenomenon. I cannot claim it's possible to put a dowsing trial through a robust scientific process and be successful. The trial I've read about do not replicate what's available in a nature setting. It's simply not the same apples to apples. Perhaps that is not something that cannot be adequately confirmed through the scientific methods that we have. But I'm certainly OPEN to future discovery on this. Most people aren't - I can accept that. It's not like I'm anti-science. I'm simply open to what science has not answered for yet.
The Italian 'tic tac' 1979  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 4:45 pm : link
USS Trepang submarine, 1971  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 4:51 pm : link
Whatever these are great stuff
















Link - ( New Window )
I am also  
Big Al : 7/1/2021 4:56 pm : link
open to science except when scientific investigation provides results I don’t agree with.
I am convinced the UFOs are probably hanging around Hawaii  
Jimmy Googs : 7/1/2021 4:57 pm : link
those pics are a slam dunk...
And I like the periscope look too, very creative.  
Jimmy Googs : 7/1/2021 5:04 pm : link
That one is kind of a mix of “Run Silent Run Deep” meets “Independence Day”.

Where are Clark Gable and Burt Lancaster when you need them...
RE: Mike...  
giants#1 : 7/1/2021 5:04 pm : link
In comment 15297788 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
this link is for you. I think it just might change your life. Well... if it doesn't change your life, you might get some entertainment value. Dousing for Beginners - ( New Window )


Is there a part II? I wanna know if he found some silver?!?
RE: I am convinced the UFOs are probably hanging around Hawaii  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 5:10 pm : link
In comment 15297807 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
those pics are a slam dunk...


Oh good so you’ve identified it - tell us what is it
RE: RE: I am convinced the UFOs are probably hanging around Hawaii  
PwndPapi : 7/1/2021 5:12 pm : link
In comment 15297817 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15297807 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


those pics are a slam dunk...



Oh good so you’ve identified it - tell us what is it


An alien. And that's not a dowsing rod in his pocket.
Aliens..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/1/2021 5:16 pm : link
seem like dumbasses trying to replicate the Hindenberg.
The tic tac supposedly had antennae coming out the bottom  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 5:26 pm : link
Wonder what he was dowsing for
.  
Bill2 : 7/1/2021 5:37 pm : link
All just a distraction so our attention is not on the real threat.

Canada.
RE: .  
PwndPapi : 7/1/2021 5:41 pm : link
In comment 15297842 Bill2 said:
Quote:
All just a distraction so our attention is not on the real threat.

Canada.


Canada has been really really mean to us, whereas the ETs have just poked our butts.
After..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/1/2021 5:44 pm : link
a few of those giant dildos crashed into the water, why didn't we go and get the wreckage??

Lost a great shot to pick up some alien parts or rescue an extrastellar being that could have immensely helped relations!
.  
Bill2 : 7/1/2021 5:46 pm : link
Exactly.

And very sneaky.

Like sending "artists" like Celine Dion, Bryan Adams and Anne Murray to ruin the minds of our youth before they can even contribute to society.

A Sugar Mountain of subversive stuff.
RE: .  
widmerseyebrow : 7/1/2021 6:10 pm : link
In comment 15297698 Bill2 said:
Quote:
But notice this isn't deemed credible enough to even drum up support for a prototype.


How do we know we haven't been working on something? We've been playing with rail guns and laser weapons for some time now. Is the military hard up for cash? If we're taking the report at face value, we know the government has been aware of these since what, 2004?

Of the UAPs that were studied, some are moving at hypersonic speeds. Do we know if we've tried to intercept the ones that weren't? Fire on them with conventional weapons? What is the prototype to be developed exactly? As someone said above, I think the government is still trying to make a decision.
RE: RE: RE: I am convinced the UFOs are probably hanging around Hawaii  
Jimmy Googs : 7/1/2021 6:13 pm : link
In comment 15297820 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15297817 mattlawson said:


Quote:


In comment 15297807 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


those pics are a slam dunk...



Oh good so you’ve identified it - tell us what is it



An alien. And that's not a dowsing rod in his pocket.



Haha...very well done
RE: RE: I am convinced the UFOs are probably hanging around Hawaii  
Jimmy Googs : 7/1/2021 6:19 pm : link
In comment 15297817 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15297807 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


those pics are a slam dunk...



Oh good so you’ve identified it - tell us what is it


It’s a picture of an image from the Lite-Brite. A popular kids toy from the late 1960s where you put colored pegs into a lit up background.

My older sister loved it...
RE: RE: RE: I am convinced the UFOs are probably hanging around Hawaii  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 6:34 pm : link
In comment 15297863 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15297817 mattlawson said:


Quote:


In comment 15297807 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


those pics are a slam dunk...



Oh good so you’ve identified it - tell us what is it



It’s a picture of an image from the Lite-Brite. A popular kids toy from the late 1960s where you put colored pegs into a lit up background.

My older sister loved it...


Close but no cigar - stills from a video of a ufo reported by multiple witnesses to the police and the FAA
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: .  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 6:35 pm : link
In comment 15297858 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 15297698 Bill2 said:


Quote:


But notice this isn't deemed credible enough to even drum up support for a prototype.



How do we know we haven't been working on something? We've been playing with rail guns and laser weapons for some time now. Is the military hard up for cash? If we're taking the report at face value, we know the government has been aware of these since what, 2004?

Of the UAPs that were studied, some are moving at hypersonic speeds. Do we know if we've tried to intercept the ones that weren't? Fire on them with conventional weapons? What is the prototype to be developed exactly? As someone said above, I think the government is still trying to make a decision.


This has been going on for 70 years - ifs only been taken seriously since 2017
RE: RE: RE: RE: I am convinced the UFOs are probably hanging around Hawaii  
Jimmy Googs : 7/1/2021 7:01 pm : link
In comment 15297870 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15297863 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15297817 mattlawson said:


Quote:


In comment 15297807 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


those pics are a slam dunk...



Oh good so you’ve identified it - tell us what is it



It’s a picture of an image from the Lite-Brite. A popular kids toy from the late 1960s where you put colored pegs into a lit up background.

My older sister loved it...



Close but no cigar - stills from a video of a ufo reported by multiple witnesses to the police and the FAA Link - ( New Window )


It had more credibility before that silly news link.

Trust me, Lite-Brite...
Oh that’s silly news link  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 7:03 pm : link
You’re right. Hey, an unrelated question where were you on January 6?
2021?  
Jimmy Googs : 7/1/2021 7:15 pm : link
.
RE: This one has an interesting look to it - from Poland  
steve in ky : 7/1/2021 7:18 pm : link
In comment 15296832 mattlawson said:
Quote:


If you look closely I think you can see Ray Walston taking a leak behind a tree.
worth a look...  
PwndPapi : 7/1/2021 7:20 pm : link
yep - like mirror images these two back to back  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 7:56 pm : link
All it takes is 1  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 8:22 pm : link


A quick musing tangentially related.  
Mike from SI : 7/1/2021 8:48 pm : link
If everyone was given truth serum, what percentage of humans believe in aliens/paranormal? Likely a substantial percentage, right? I think that says way more about our ape brains than whether these things exist, tbh. (And I say this as someone who, if given truth serum, would likely say I believe in a small percentage of paranormal/weird stuff, if we're being honest.)
if they don't, its an awful waste of space  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 8:51 pm : link
why would it take truth serum though? have a beer and let it fly
Holloman airforce base, 1957  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 8:55 pm : link
1966, Michigan.  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 8:57 pm : link
New Mexico, 1967  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 8:58 pm : link
1951, California  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 8:59 pm : link
classic

The Battle of LA -1942  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 9:03 pm : link
WWII Foo Fighters, 1940s  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 9:07 pm : link
The Twining Memo - 1947  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 9:14 pm : link
.  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 9:16 pm : link


Donald Kehoe, The Flying Saucers Are Real  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 9:27 pm : link
"...This was the last sighting listed before World War II.

When I had finished, I stared out the plane window, curiously disturbed. Like most people, I had grown up believing the earth was the center of everything--life, intelligence, and religion. Now, for the first time in my life, that belief was shaken.

It was a curious thing. I could accept the idea that we would eventually explore space, land on the moon, and go on to distant planets. I had read of the plans, and I knew our engineers and scientists would somehow find a way. It did not disturb my belief in our superiority.

But faced with this evidence of a superior race in the universe, my mind rebelled. For years, I had been accustomed to thinking in comic-strip terms of any possible spacemen--Buck Rogers stuff, with weird-looking space ships and green-faced Martians.

But now, if these sightings were true, the shoe was on the other foot. We would be faced with a race of beings at least two hundred years ahead of our civilization--perhaps thousands. In their eyes, we might look like primitives.

My conjectures before the take-off had just been idle thinking; I had not really believed this could be the answer. But now the question came back sharply. How would we react to a sudden appearance of space ships, bringing that higher race to the earth? If we were fully prepared, educated to this tremendous adventure, it might come off without trouble. Unprepared, we would be thrown into panic.

The lights of Philadelphia showed up ahead, and a thought struck me. What would Philadelphians of 1776 have thought to see this DC-6 flying across their city at three hundred miles an hour? What would the sentries at Valley Forge have done, a year later, if this lighted airliner had streaked over their heads?

Madness. Stampede. Those were the plain answers."
Link - ( New Window )
Each picture..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/1/2021 9:49 pm : link
illustrates less and less credibility. Now things that aren't even objects in the sky are getting posted.

And the motivation to post them continues to be a big "What the fuck?"
These are fairly historic photos  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 9:55 pm : link
published by major media outlets over the years. i'm not really concerned about credibility, it is what it is
funny  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 10:13 pm : link
Nimitz radar operator kevin day  
mattlawson : 7/1/2021 10:15 pm : link
Recall asking for quality over quantity  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2021 8:34 am : link
on all this evidence, but to no avail...

That goes for posts too.
Can..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/2/2021 8:39 am : link
there be any better quality than Facebook or Twitter posts??

This is the Gold Standard of Proof - but also reveals why this guy believes that dowsing works!
RE: Recall asking for quality over quantity  
Big Al : 7/2/2021 8:48 am : link
In comment 15298091 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
on all this evidence, but to no avail...

That goes for posts too.
“It only takes one” so flood the zone.

No big deal, let it go. He seems to be having  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2021 8:53 am : link
a good time with posting the shoebox collection of pics he’s accumulated over time.

Although the thread has become its own example of why people claiming UFO sightings get ridiculed...
RE: Can..  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 9:51 am : link
In comment 15298093 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
there be any better quality than Facebook or Twitter posts??

This is the Gold Standard of Proof - but also reveals why this guy believes that dowsing works!


Personal experience will do that sometimes - kinda like seeing an orb, flying saucer, or having a paranormal experience of some kind.

If openness to what is yet unexplained makes me the devil, I’m fine with that.
RE: Can..  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 9:53 am : link
In comment 15298093 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
there be any better quality than Facebook or Twitter posts??

This is the Gold Standard of Proof - but also reveals why this guy believes that dowsing works!


Don’t forget declassified government documents - which we can start doing as well for posterity.
Don't confuse..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/2/2021 9:54 am : link
the devil to a guy not bright enough to present his arguments very well.
RE: Don't confuse..  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 10:11 am : link
In comment 15298136 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the devil to a guy not bright enough to present his arguments very well.



I was very clear in my logic earlier and why I think unidentifieds exist, and have. It was clear to me that a lot of the participants on the other side were not up on all the relevant material. I’ll be taking my time with tweezers and blowtorch to keep this thread alive as new information surfaces about this topic. We’ve just begun fat man
It’s the off-season!  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 10:12 am : link
Enjoy yourself
Nellis Test Range, Filmed by US Air Force  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 10:58 am : link


Original Hard copy segment from 95 embedded in the link below with 2 videos. What's cool about these are the way they move.
Link - ( New Window )
Hard Copy  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2021 11:12 am : link
tells you everything you need right there...
Does it?  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 11:14 am : link
Here is a stabilized version, no hard copy
Link - ( New Window )
Chilean Military, Infrared  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 11:18 am : link


Quote:
Early on the afternoon of November 14, 2014, a Chilean Navy pilot and a technician were flying their helicopter along the coast when they saw something strange. They were going north at an altitude of 1.4km in a twin-engine Airbus Cougar when something appeared in the sky and matched their velocity of 130 knots.

As part of the flight, which took place west of Santiago, the helicopter's technician was testing the thermal imaging properties of an infrared FLIR high-definition camera. Naturally, he turned the camera on the unidentified object. After several minutes the pilot and technician observed the object make two distinct discharges of some type of liquid, or gas, which produced a very hot signal captured by the infrared imager. The technician captured nearly 10 minutes of video, which shows both visible and infrared camera views.
After this sighting, the Navy turned the video over to the the Committee for the Study of Anomalous Aerial Phenomena, known as CEFAA. This is the Chilean government group that investigates UFO sightings, or Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. On Friday, after a study by scientists, military officials, and even some photo analysis experts from France, the committee released its conclusion.

"The Committee for the Study of Anomalous Aerial Phenomena, comprised of leading scientists, analysts, and aviation technicians, after an extensive study of the case, determined that it was a UAP, or Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon"


Video linked
Link - ( New Window )
Here is picture of a guy who's face was burned by the encounter  
steve in ky : 7/2/2021 11:28 am : link
Powerful stuff you deniers!

UFOs  
ArtVandelay : 7/2/2021 11:31 am : link
I grew up in town really close to a small private airport. Many years ago a bunch of single engine prop planes used to take-off at night, form into a V shape and turn on bright colorful lights. The next day I would hear about 100’s of UFO sightings reported in the Hudson Valley area. So while some of these sightings may be legit UAPs, I always keep in mind that a lot of people are just stupid.
You make a fine point, probably majority of worldwide UFO encounters  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 2:15 pm : link
Are misidentified and have completely logical and natural explanations. It doesn’t explain it all though. In fact the press releases about official studies miss characterize the actual conclusions to make it seem like it’s less of an issue than it actually is.

No one is seeing all UFO sightings and all pictures of UFO looking things are legitimate unidentified craft that then leads to capabilities beyond next generation tech that we don’t have. But some do.

And as I pointed out earlier if you look at the actual data the higher the quality of THOSE events in these studies that the government has conducted, the more likelihood they are to be unidentified.

UFOs exist.
Case and point  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 2:20 pm : link
143 of the 144 cases in the recently released UAP confessional report remain unidentified.
Link - ( New Window )
Fair point about lights  
widmerseyebrow : 7/2/2021 2:26 pm : link
but when I see an object without wings (or without exhaust in IR videos) darting around, the debunking theories can get as comical as anything out there.
worth a look  
PwndPapi : 7/2/2021 2:27 pm : link


Angry Molesting Tree. Holy shit.
Hey when you get around to it  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 2:44 pm : link
Why don’t you take a crack at identifying anything up there since it’s so easily done and you feel instead you can continue to ridicule.
The point..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/2/2021 3:03 pm : link
isn't to identify them, is it?

The point is making the leap that unidentified objects are otherworldly.

Which is exactly why many wonder why you keep posting photos.
RE: worth a look  
Big Al : 7/2/2021 3:13 pm : link
In comment 15298364 PwndPapi said:
Quote:


Angry Molesting Tree. Holy shit.
The burden of proof is on you to disprove Angry Molesting Trees. It only takes one to show they exist.
RE: You make a fine point, probably majority of worldwide UFO encounters  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2021 3:26 pm : link
In comment 15298352 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Are misidentified and have completely logical and natural explanations. It doesn’t explain it all though. In fact the press releases about official studies miss characterize the actual conclusions to make it seem like it’s less of an issue than it actually is.

No one is seeing all UFO sightings and all pictures of UFO looking things are legitimate unidentified craft that then leads to capabilities beyond next generation tech that we don’t have. But some do.

And as I pointed out earlier if you look at the actual data the higher the quality of THOSE events in these studies that the government has conducted, the more likelihood they are to be unidentified.

UFOs exist.


Given capability (and need) to examine each instance in a more efficient and effective manner, all would have a logical and natural explanations.

All...
Seems to me what I'm posting fits the classification of UFO / UAP  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 3:46 pm : link
Many having been deemed as such by US and other world governments. I'm claiming they represent UFOs. I think the burden is on you actually
RE: RE: worth a look  
PwndPapi : 7/2/2021 3:48 pm : link
In comment 15298401 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 15298364 PwndPapi said:


Quote:




Angry Molesting Tree. Holy shit.

The burden of proof is on you to disprove Angry Molesting Trees. It only takes one to show they exist.


All bark, no bite.
Long Beach PD, 2004  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 3:53 pm : link


Video linked
Link - ( New Window )
matt, Eh..  
PwndPapi : 7/2/2021 3:59 pm : link
Pretty sure Microsoft's Flight Simulator from 1982 has better graphics.
RE: The point..  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 4:01 pm : link
In comment 15298393 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
isn't to identify them, is it?

The point is making the leap that unidentified objects are otherworldly.

Which is exactly why many wonder why you keep posting photos.



OF COURSE that's the ultimate leap that no one here could possibly take from a photograph alone. Which is precisely why I've stated for the record it surprises me that people could be convinced from a photo.

Context matters.

Now, that military professionals have said these phenomena have been captured on multiple radar, video, flir, and seen by multiple eye witnesses to maneuver with capabilities beyond anything we have in our arsenal... that is significant context.

But how can we believe those folks. How can we believe the government which has come out and ADMITTED the media shown and classification of the material is authentic and remains UNKNOWN. How can we possibly rest assured that UFOs do exist with all that out there.

It's probably nothing. Prolly a bird, balloon, or China with a transmedium drone that can operate 24/7 in our oceans and airspace with instantaneous acceleration, cloaking capabilities, and advance knowledge of a classified drill plan. All is fine.
RE: matt, Eh..  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 4:06 pm : link
In comment 15298433 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
Pretty sure Microsoft's Flight Simulator from 1982 has better graphics.


I prefer star fox or after burner myself.
RE: RE: You make a fine point, probably majority of worldwide UFO encounters  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 4:08 pm : link
In comment 15298405 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15298352 mattlawson said:


Quote:


Are misidentified and have completely logical and natural explanations. It doesn’t explain it all though. In fact the press releases about official studies miss characterize the actual conclusions to make it seem like it’s less of an issue than it actually is.

No one is seeing all UFO sightings and all pictures of UFO looking things are legitimate unidentified craft that then leads to capabilities beyond next generation tech that we don’t have. But some do.

And as I pointed out earlier if you look at the actual data the higher the quality of THOSE events in these studies that the government has conducted, the more likelihood they are to be unidentified.

UFOs exist.



Given capability (and need) to examine each instance in a more efficient and effective manner, all would have a logical and natural explanations.

All...


Are you saying that UFOs are then a natural part of life?
New info on Nimitz encounter - there is more video  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 4:22 pm : link


Quote:
“I’m gonna be very careful what I say here. There is video evidence of this craft. There’s data.”

Link - ( New Window )
More recent info for those following along  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 4:26 pm : link


via Richard Dolan, UFO Historian.

US propulsion development activities stay within US-designated ranges. UAP sightings are NOT attributable to US advanced propulsion development projects.
RE: More recent info for those following along  
PwndPapi : 7/2/2021 4:31 pm : link
In comment 15298451 mattlawson said:
Quote:


via Richard Dolan, UFO Historian.

US propulsion development activities stay within US-designated ranges. UAP sightings are NOT attributable to US advanced propulsion development projects.


How many years of study are required to become a licensed "UFO Historian"? I'm 41. Is it too late for me?
Mitt Romney on the UAP report  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 4:33 pm : link
"They're not coming from foreign adversaries... if these came from another alien society,... that makes me more fascinated, not fearful."

Elizondo claims there is high def video  
widmerseyebrow : 7/2/2021 6:03 pm : link
That congress has been privy to, that the public has not. Says the 3 that the public have seen, while interesting, are probably the least compelling of the lot.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Elizondo claims there is high def video  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/2/2021 6:12 pm : link
In comment 15298498 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
That congress has been privy to, that the public has not. Says the 3 that the public have seen, while interesting, are probably the least compelling of the lot. Link - ( New Window )


Of course they have better video, but there is zero chance they release it. It's a security issue. The Pentagon went apeshit when the last guy in the white house released some hi def video of our capabilities. I don't trust Lou Elizonda at all, he seems like some of these meatheads I served with. He can't even honestly answer the why now question?
Why now?  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 7:22 pm : link
December 2017 changed everything. He wouldn’t want to place undue attention on the record on how he got the 3 videos released in the first place.

Also - public pressure to release everything they have has mounted. This is no longer a fringe topic, it’s out in the open and there’s been a lot of momentum in recent years.

I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention but there are all these new civilian space companies that are launching, could have something to do with it too.
In the interview above  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 8:29 pm : link
Really glad to see the question asked about the studies of remote viewing and connection to UAP activity. Lue did confirm that yes Hal Puthoff was a big part of the program and there was interesting work done in that space.

He did elaborate to say that the data you get from such activities - it’s very subjective, and so in terms of usable data, it’s often not enough, that you need other data to complete the picture. Remote viewing may not be enough to substantiate a claim to make a decision. And that’s totally fair.

I do think more serious work needs to be done on human intuition though because the studies that I’ve heard about are extremely interesting
RE: RE: More recent info for those following along  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 8:30 pm : link
In comment 15298456 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15298451 mattlawson said:


Quote:




via Richard Dolan, UFO Historian.

US propulsion development activities stay within US-designated ranges. UAP sightings are NOT attributable to US advanced propulsion development projects.



How many years of study are required to become a licensed "UFO Historian"? I'm 41. Is it too late for me?


It’s never too late for now
RE: Why now?  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/2/2021 8:35 pm : link
In comment 15298528 mattlawson said:
Quote:
December 2017 changed everything. He wouldn’t want to place undue attention on the record on how he got the 3 videos released in the first place.

Also - public pressure to release everything they have has mounted. This is no longer a fringe topic, it’s out in the open and there’s been a lot of momentum in recent years.

I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention but there are all these new civilian space companies that are launching, could have something to do with it too.


What public pressure? There is very little public pressure to release this stuff.

Why now is very simple. The military-industrial complex has gotten massive in the last twenty years and the wars are drawing down. Something needs to feed the beast and the military is looking for new things to replace the war funding. The military is a political machine. They recognized a possible opportunity and are taking it.

Releasing it because of space companies in their infancy? What's to gain for the military. I seriously question your logic trains. The motives don't make any sense.
You must assume this is all about money  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 9:56 pm : link
Lue elizondo resigned. AATIP continues under new leadership and a different acronym. His stance has been he’s forcing disclosure due to frustration with how the government operates. He’s trying to get the truth out there - not perpetuate a broken system.

Just because someone works for an entity for a long period of time doesn’t mean that they are completely loyal to them no matter the case. In Lue’s case it appears he’s blowing the whistle because he’s sick and tired of the same ol same ol.

RE: RE: Why now?  
mattlawson : 7/2/2021 9:59 pm : link
In comment 15298561 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15298528 mattlawson said:


Quote:


December 2017 changed everything. He wouldn’t want to place undue attention on the record on how he got the 3 videos released in the first place.

Also - public pressure to release everything they have has mounted. This is no longer a fringe topic, it’s out in the open and there’s been a lot of momentum in recent years.

I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention but there are all these new civilian space companies that are launching, could have something to do with it too.



What public pressure? There is very little public pressure to release this stuff.

Why now is very simple. The military-industrial complex has gotten massive in the last twenty years and the wars are drawing down. Something needs to feed the beast and the military is looking for new things to replace the war funding. The military is a political machine. They recognized a possible opportunity and are taking it.

Releasing it because of space companies in their infancy? What's to gain for the military. I seriously question your logic trains. The motives don't make any sense.


There’s tremendous public pressure, the UFO article traffic on the New York Times are the highest in the publications history. Same with 60 minutes. This is not a fringe topic any longer. Congressional leaders are coming out of the woodwork now to go on record about this because they know their constituents care about it. This has come up in presidential debates a serious point of questioning for 20 years.

The momentum is there. People that know I’m interested in this topic are coming up to me and texting me all over the place about it. It’s reached an unprecedented pitch
There is zero pressure coming from anyone important.  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/2/2021 10:33 pm : link
The military could do what it ALWAYS does and say piss off. The amount of people and reporters that would be outraged at this would be minuscule. Pressure means actually having consequences, not lots of people asking.
RE: You must assume this is all about money  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/2/2021 10:37 pm : link
In comment 15298598 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Lue elizondo resigned. AATIP continues under new leadership and a different acronym. His stance has been he’s forcing disclosure due to frustration with how the government operates. He’s trying to get the truth out there - not perpetuate a broken system.

Just because someone works for an entity for a long period of time doesn’t mean that they are completely loyal to them no matter the case. In Lue’s case it appears he’s blowing the whistle because he’s sick and tired of the same ol same ol.


What? I didn’t say any of that about Elizindo.

And yes I do assume it’s all about money, it’s always about money and funding for this he MIC is about to get contracted. They are going to explore all avenues to make sure it’s as minimal as possible.
There is no pressure and very little interest, if any.  
Jimmy Googs : 7/3/2021 6:41 am : link
And if presidential candidates are debating on this topic, it should only help get the undecided off the fence...
RE: ...  
BMac : 7/3/2021 7:56 am : link
In comment 15286871 jrdinsc said:
Quote:
If the universe is truly infinite, then intelligent life existing somewhere else is pretty much a sure thing. Whether or not any of that intelligent life has reached Earth yet, I don't have a clue.


If infinity is the order of being, then anything can exist/happen an infinite number of times.
zeke - to your point  
mattlawson : 7/3/2021 9:34 am : link
There's a canadian ufologist that for years has been on this predictive track going back decades on who the next target would be to drum up military funding. After the wars in the Middle East he predicted Aliens. Apparently he was told this by an DoD insider.

So the larger question becomes, is it really scripted like that? Do you believe in a massive coordinated effort to defraud the public trust to ensure their projects are always lined?

It's a conspiracy one way or another. Pick your poison.
RE: There is no pressure and very little interest, if any.  
mattlawson : 7/3/2021 9:35 am : link
In comment 15298661 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
And if presidential candidates are debating on this topic, it should only help get the undecided off the fence...


Robert Hastings - UFOs and Nukes author - why is gov hiding info  
mattlawson : 7/3/2021 1:24 pm : link
Worth a read ;)
Link - ( New Window )
Any psychologists out there?  
Big Al : 7/3/2021 2:20 pm : link
Would this be an example of obsessive behavior?
RE: zeke - to your point  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/3/2021 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15298704 mattlawson said:
Quote:
There's a canadian ufologist that for years has been on this predictive track going back decades on who the next target would be to drum up military funding. After the wars in the Middle East he predicted Aliens. Apparently he was told this by an DoD insider.

So the larger question becomes, is it really scripted like that? Do you believe in a massive coordinated effort to defraud the public trust to ensure their projects are always lined?

It's a conspiracy one way or another. Pick your poison.


What is this massive coordinated effort to defraud the public? Scripted like what? Just because one guy is a DOD insider and is privy to the information doesn't mean everyone knows. He could also just be putting pieces together. It's not that difficult. I mean I'm not a DoD insider and i'ts blindingly obvious to me.

Yeh the military (and private contractors) is always going to do its best politically to make sure its pockets are lined. Isn't that just common knowledge at this point? The next real priority for the Pentagon is cyberwarfare, but that just doesn't like the pockets like traditional manufacturing and projects do.
RE: RE: There is no pressure and very little interest, if any.  
Jimmy Googs : 7/3/2021 4:47 pm : link
In comment 15298705 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15298661 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


And if presidential candidates are debating on this topic, it should only help get the undecided off the fence...





No, it’s the facts. I thought I would add that concept to a thread sorely lacking it...
Fact is - government admitted UAP is real  
mattlawson : 7/3/2021 9:25 pm : link
Meaning not our tech, secret or otherwise. Sweet dreams James
RE: RE: zeke - to your point  
mattlawson : 7/3/2021 9:30 pm : link
In comment 15298925 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15298704 mattlawson said:


Quote:


There's a canadian ufologist that for years has been on this predictive track going back decades on who the next target would be to drum up military funding. After the wars in the Middle East he predicted Aliens. Apparently he was told this by an DoD insider.

So the larger question becomes, is it really scripted like that? Do you believe in a massive coordinated effort to defraud the public trust to ensure their projects are always lined?

It's a conspiracy one way or another. Pick your poison.



What is this massive coordinated effort to defraud the public? Scripted like what? Just because one guy is a DOD insider and is privy to the information doesn't mean everyone knows. He could also just be putting pieces together. It's not that difficult. I mean I'm not a DoD insider and i'ts blindingly obvious to me.

Yeh the military (and private contractors) is always going to do its best politically to make sure its pockets are lined. Isn't that just common knowledge at this point? The next real priority for the Pentagon is cyberwarfare, but that just doesn't like the pockets like traditional manufacturing and projects do.


Using known disinformation tactics to gain political advantage and curry favor with those with funding mechanisms. Seems to me that if you lie to get money - that’s fraud. Waste fraud and abuse is a thing with state and federal dollars
UAP - Houston, Texas - Mufon Case 65255  
mattlawson : 7/3/2021 10:38 pm : link
I’m sure it’s just birds
Link - ( New Window )
UAP El Rosario, Mexico 2009 - UFO AAV  
mattlawson : 7/3/2021 10:41 pm : link
2 different people at the same time. Usually you have to pay double for that kind of action, Cotton
Link - ( New Window )
RE: UAP - Houston, Texas - Mufon Case 65255  
widmerseyebrow : 7/3/2021 11:06 pm : link
In comment 15299065 mattlawson said:
Quote:
I’m sure it’s just birds Link - ( New Window )


"Everyone has a cell phone, why don't we have more video of uaps?" This is about the quality I'd expect, and while I find it personally interesting, is this really moving the needle for the people that make that argument? Then why make that argument? Most people aren't flying airplanes.
RE: UAP - Houston, Texas - Mufon Case 65255  
Jimmy Googs : 7/4/2021 7:38 am : link
In comment 15299065 mattlawson said:
Quote:
I’m sure it’s just birds Link - ( New Window )


Good camera work of superimposing lite-brite film into the dark sky.

Almost looks like fireworks which is appropriate for today.

Happy 4th...
Happy 4th  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 8:46 am : link
Independence Day gif and whatnot
Flip phone footage, Costa Rica 2007  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 8:53 am : link
Speaking of cell phone quality footage
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Fact is - government admitted UAP is real  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/4/2021 9:00 am : link
In comment 15299039 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Meaning not our tech, secret or otherwise. Sweet dreams James


Your use of the word "fact" continues to shit on the meaning of the word "fact".
Tic Tac like thing in Australia  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 9:26 am : link
Balloon or bird, maybe even swamp gas refracting the light from Venus
Link - ( New Window )
Fat man  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 9:30 am : link
Stop being so obtuse - DOD release of the UAPTF
Link - ( New Window )
The report in full  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 9:35 am : link
143 of the 144 cases examined remain unexplained. Follow the logic.
Link - ( New Window )
On the videos that started it all in 2017 - DOD  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 9:40 am : link
Why do you still doubt the UAPs are real and remain unidentified. The Government has told you every which way
Link - ( New Window )
Am I missing something?  
Bill2 : 7/4/2021 10:04 am : link
Doesn't "Unidentified" mean all or most of the important facts are not established yet by those studying the phenomenon?

as in "unidentified" is a synonym for "we dont know"?

So in sum, some tiny percentage of all the things that are observed via optical recordings are not explainable? And we have no choice, no known examples of damage and no cure for a thing that (even if it exists) has done no known harm for decades and decades?

Unidentified Innocuous Objects is the more accurate observation of the past phenomenon?

Seems recent human history would teach us to worry a lot more about Almost Invisible Damaging Objects.

So we dont know everything. And when we find out, there will be more we dont know.

This subject was pretty far down my list of interests and after reading a very long thread with no there there its dropped down further. Nothing to do, nothing to fear, just items that cant be classified. Of the mysteries and knowledge gaps we must live with, for me, this is one for others to focus on.
I dont think you’re missing anything really  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 10:32 am : link
Unidentified and unknown is the point. Those so sure it’s secret tech… how do you know. Those so sure it’s alien - how can you know.

All I know is - these things are real and the government admitted it. Which means it’s not secret tech and it’s not anything China or Russia has. What does that leave?

Look at that Info graphic I posted earlier - the possible explanations range beyond where the OP was. It’s a fascinating topic, fun to talk about. Clearly incites ridicule from those to have a higher source of knowledge than the rest of us.

I’m fine with unidentified at this point.
.  
Bill2 : 7/4/2021 12:37 pm : link
Then we violently agree that unidentified visual or audio images are not the same as agreement that there are yet any Objects at all. They are the unidentified phenomenon captured on our current recoding technology after all the phenomenon that can be identified are taken out of the set of things seen in the sky. They may or may not be objects.

We further agree that no previously unidentified "objects" recorded have been found in physical form. Ever.
You don't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/4/2021 12:38 pm : link
seem to get it.

"These things are real". If they are unidentified, that is a really ignorant statement. What do you mean by "real"?

Some of the unidentified items have been deflated balloons. Those are real items, but not noteworthy.

Some of the unidentified things have been optical illusions(such as an array of lights in formation), cloud formations or even shadows. Those aren't real items and aren't noteworthy.

Being real means nothing if you don't know what it is - and the condundrum is if you don't know what it is, even calling it "real" is contradictory.
After that it's just a preference  
Bill2 : 7/4/2021 12:43 pm : link
of what to pay attention to.

For me, I prefer to give mental shelf space to things that are certainly in the world and for knowledge or practice or perspective can do something about it.

Just imo
FMIC  
Bill2 : 7/4/2021 12:53 pm : link
I suspect that humans and governments have unearthed bones that remain unidentified.

What if these Unidentified Bony Objects are gathering to March on North Carolina.

Can you prove they aren't?

Lots more unidentified bones are being found then in the Dark Ages. Or even the Middle Ages.

Obviously this should be a military concern. There are military bases in the Carolinas, and valuable humans live there unaware of the threat.

Do you know which they will go for first?

Obviously, some people are deliberately avoiding reality.
RE: More recent info for those following along  
dabru : 7/4/2021 12:53 pm : link
In comment 15298451 mattlawson said:
Quote:


via Richard Dolan, UFO Historian.

US propulsion development activities stay within US-designated ranges. UAP sightings are NOT attributable to US advanced propulsion development projects.


This just makes we think it is possibly US tech.

So they admit to have some new techs developed and have tested it around area 51. Well what would the next level of black ops testing involve? I would guess it would be nice to buzz our own guys, so what if our pilots and ships see them, the military can control the narrative.

Now you want to take testing further or even for operational spying and such and bring the tech in front of our adversaries. The best way to do that would be to disclose that we are seeing all this crazy tech and it isn't ours.
Funny thing is that  
Bill2 : 7/4/2021 1:01 pm : link
All humans with government issued Identifications have eyes.

None of the Identified Bony Objects have eyes.

So it can't be a coincidence. Obviously it's a conspiracy.

Why is the government hiding the reasons and research they must have done on this? It's got to be a high risk to tell us the truth.

Or we don't want the Russians to know
RE: .  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 1:19 pm : link
In comment 15299182 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Then we violently agree that unidentified visual or audio images are not the same as agreement that there are yet any Objects at all. They are the unidentified phenomenon captured on our current recoding technology after all the phenomenon that can be identified are taken out of the set of things seen in the sky. They may or may not be objects.

We further agree that no previously unidentified "objects" recorded have been found in physical form. Ever.


I don’t agree to that last statement, how can you or I possibly know that. Especially when current contractors to the DOD have said the contrary. “Off world aerial vehicles, not made by human hands” I believe is the money quote. I’m not willing to stare that no UAP have ever been recovered. That of course is the hope to those that want to go deeper with disclosure. That’s the big conspiracy many point to but cannot prove. I’m open to that but of course would never say anything definitive points to this. But personally I’m open and want to hear more about this aspect.

I think if you read the latest report - many are physical objects. New science needed to get further in explaining how a craft can move as fast as these have and not result in a sonic boom. Even if it is secret tech - which I’m not saying it is - it represents a paradigm shift that absolutely needs further explanation and attention.

What the statement I posted from Dolan above means to me is that it’s not likely to be secret US tech. That they would not test anything like that near other military operations, where these incursions have occurred. That of course is a leak of a classified piece of information so I don’t know how to go beyond just responding to what was put out there but it certainly terrifies what other people have been saying about this, they would not test secret black budget technology in active military training sessions without full awareness of what was going on and that seems to be what Dolan is indicating here.
People love unsolved mysteries  
JohnF : 7/4/2021 1:25 pm : link
Think of all the research and speculation on the Jack the Ripper murders. People love a challenge, even when it's unlikely a solution will be found.

I think UAP's fall under two catagories:

1) Current Military: The US or another country has developed tech that is way ahead of current thought, or this is a disinformation campaign by the military (fake videos or using current tech) to simulate what's been released). It wouldn't be a shock to discover that the goverment has lied about this, or that only people at the highest levels know what's going on.

Why disinformation? Remember what the US did back in the 80's against the USSR with SDI...we drove the Russians into severe debt, enough to wreck their economy, to try and develop counters to SDI, even though SDI was never that good. PsyOps are nothing new. This is the most likely solution, IMO.

2) Aliens? I think that the current concept of Aliens is unlikely (Aliens from another Solar System), but I do think that Time Travel would explain a lot of what we're seeing.

Time Travelers would need to have as little contact/interaction as possible, in order to keep the time line intact. That would explain why the photos are fuzzy (phase shifting would make it hard to focus on them). The "grays" people talk about are basic humanoid shape, and are possible evolutionary (or mutated) versions of humans.

Given enough time, humanity could develop the power systems and science necessary to develop time travel. The reasons to go back in time to study the planet are unclear, but it's possible they are trying to study the status of our biolife (especially the oceans), in order to restore the planet, or learn lessons in terraforming (something we're actually doing now with climate change).

If the UAP's are actually from non humans, they are likely AI drones. That would allow the incredible acceleration that's been reported. Why the drones are collecting information on various planets is another mystery, but Earth might be a target because of the water signature our planet has (something we can now dectect on exo planets with current technology). Water is considered a good indicator of possible life.
RE: You don't..  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 1:28 pm : link
In comment 15299183 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
seem to get it.

"These things are real". If they are unidentified, that is a really ignorant statement. What do you mean by "real"?

Some of the unidentified items have been deflated balloons. Those are real items, but not noteworthy.

Some of the unidentified things have been optical illusions(such as an array of lights in formation), cloud formations or even shadows. Those aren't real items and aren't noteworthy.

Being real means nothing if you don't know what it is - and the condundrum is if you don't know what it is, even calling it "real" is contradictory.


I don’t think you get it in on the contrary. Authentic footage exists of unidentified craft that are not US military operating in our sensitive air spaces, they are not camera artifacts, they are not lighting affects, they are not birds. They are not balloons. They are intelligent we control physical objects that we don’t know where the fuck they come from, period.

Your military personnel have arrested to their personal experiences as such. The DOD and DNI have corroborated it. Unknown means NOT lightbrite. Not birds. Not balloons. Not secret US tech. It cannot be explained using natural or prosaic means.

What does that leave? It seems we don’t know everything about what’s going on on this planet, let alone what could be out there beyond our limited use the universe.

The great conspiracy, as I’ve noticed in my own professional life and experience, is that the big secret really amounts to the people in power don’t want you to know how little they actually know about what’s going on.
RE: People love unsolved mysteries  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 1:30 pm : link
In comment 15299197 JohnF said:
Quote:
Think of all the research and speculation on the Jack the Ripper murders. People love a challenge, even when it's unlikely a solution will be found.

I think UAP's fall under two catagories:

1) Current Military: The US or another country has developed tech that is way ahead of current thought, or this is a disinformation campaign by the military (fake videos or using current tech) to simulate what's been released). It wouldn't be a shock to discover that the goverment has lied about this, or that only people at the highest levels know what's going on.

Why disinformation? Remember what the US did back in the 80's against the USSR with SDI...we drove the Russians into severe debt, enough to wreck their economy, to try and develop counters to SDI, even though SDI was never that good. PsyOps are nothing new. This is the most likely solution, IMO.

2) Aliens? I think that the current concept of Aliens is unlikely (Aliens from another Solar System), but I do think that Time Travel would explain a lot of what we're seeing.

Time Travelers would need to have as little contact/interaction as possible, in order to keep the time line intact. That would explain why the photos are fuzzy (phase shifting would make it hard to focus on them). The "grays" people talk about are basic humanoid shape, and are possible evolutionary (or mutated) versions of humans.

Given enough time, humanity could develop the power systems and science necessary to develop time travel. The reasons to go back in time to study the planet are unclear, but it's possible they are trying to study the status of our biolife (especially the oceans), in order to restore the planet, or learn lessons in terraforming (something we're actually doing now with climate change).

If the UAP's are actually from non humans, they are likely AI drones. That would allow the incredible acceleration that's been reported. Why the drones are collecting information on various planets is another mystery, but Earth might be a target because of the water signature our planet has (something we can now dectect on exo planets with current technology). Water is considered a good indicator of possible life.


John I think that makes a lot of sense
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/4/2021 1:39 pm : link
Quote:
The great conspiracy, as I’ve noticed in my own professional life and experience, is that the big secret really amounts to the people in power don’t want you to know how little they actually know about what’s going on.


That's not really a conspiracy is it? That's just a pithy statement that means nothing.

A conspiracy is an organized effort to disseminate falsehoods by a group working together to hide the real truth.
RE: LOL..  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/4/2021 2:30 pm : link
In comment 15299207 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


The great conspiracy, as I’ve noticed in my own professional life and experience, is that the big secret really amounts to the people in power don’t want you to know how little they actually know about what’s going on.



That's not really a conspiracy is it? That's just a pithy statement that means nothing.

A conspiracy is an organized effort to disseminate falsehoods by a group working together to hide the real truth.


This guy throws a bunch of words he doesn’t understand the meaning to incessantly in an effort to sound like he’s making some sort of intellectual argument.
I'm sure the Aliens  
Mattman : 7/4/2021 2:45 pm : link
will contact us when we develop faster than light propulsion systems. Their prime directive states to not interfere with our development. Right now they are watching us and will make first contact when we get the technology and reach out to us rather than risk us bumping into them out in space.
John…the fact that the most compelling videos and incidents come  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/4/2021 2:52 pm : link
from training exercises really speaks its too some military tech. The Navy doesn’t do a ton of training exercises, in fact it’s pretty rare, most the time it’s just work ups or actual deployments. Why hasn’t any of this been captured during actual live fire situations, which outnumber training exercise time at least 10-1? This is the type of stuff your average person doesn’t know and why I really think this is the military trying to drum up money at and at the same time protecting advanced tech. I’ve heard a radar operator tell me it could conceivably be holographic displays that show up on the actual radar. There lots of tricks you can play on systems.
So if it’s holographic systems that return a radar signal  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 3:46 pm : link
Is it self imposed? In the case of the Nimitz where the object new the cap point, how do you explain that?
RE: RE: LOL..  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 3:49 pm : link
In comment 15299221 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15299207 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:




Quote:


The great conspiracy, as I’ve noticed in my own professional life and experience, is that the big secret really amounts to the people in power don’t want you to know how little they actually know about what’s going on.



That's not really a conspiracy is it? That's just a pithy statement that means nothing.

A conspiracy is an organized effort to disseminate falsehoods by a group working together to hide the real truth.



This guy throws a bunch of words he doesn’t understand the meaning to incessantly in an effort to sound like he’s making some sort of intellectual argument.


Y’all would prolly sit down in a shitty booth while I drink you under the table. It’s them or it’s us. It’s secret is waiting to be revealed one way or another.
RE: RE: You don't..  
Jimmy Googs : 7/4/2021 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15299199 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15299183 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


seem to get it.

"These things are real". If they are unidentified, that is a really ignorant statement. What do you mean by "real"?

Some of the unidentified items have been deflated balloons. Those are real items, but not noteworthy.

Some of the unidentified things have been optical illusions(such as an array of lights in formation), cloud formations or even shadows. Those aren't real items and aren't noteworthy.

Being real means nothing if you don't know what it is - and the condundrum is if you don't know what it is, even calling it "real" is contradictory.



I don’t think you get it in on the contrary. Authentic footage exists of unidentified craft that are not US military operating in our sensitive air spaces, they are not camera artifacts, they are not lighting affects, they are not birds. They are not balloons. They are intelligent we control physical objects that we don’t know where the fuck they come from, period.

Your military personnel have arrested to their personal experiences as such. The DOD and DNI have corroborated it. Unknown means NOT lightbrite. Not birds. Not balloons. Not secret US tech. It cannot be explained using natural or prosaic means.

What does that leave? It seems we don’t know everything about what’s going on on this planet, let alone what could be out there beyond our limited use the universe.

The great conspiracy, as I’ve noticed in my own professional life and experience, is that the big secret really amounts to the people in power don’t want you to know how little they actually know about what’s going on.


You are closer to the truth you seek with lite-brite, birds and balloons versus alleging a ridiculous government cover up.

And not for nothing, our government is made up of a whole lot of working class stiffs and elected professional and educated people you know in everyday life. While it sounds exciting to scream “Conspiracy” from the mountaintop, it’s rarely the right conclusion...
Who are we to judge  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 5:49 pm : link
Gov can’t be all knowing and all powerful and at the same time completely ignorant and incapable. Particularly the DoD
.  
Bill2 : 7/4/2021 6:24 pm : link
Of course it can and does.

Tons and tons of examples of this in every nations history and all human institutions
RE: Who are we to judge  
Jimmy Googs : 7/4/2021 9:07 pm : link
In comment 15299316 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Gov can’t be all knowing and all powerful and at the same time completely ignorant and incapable. Particularly the DoD


Wake up They aren’t all-anything.

But it’s almost time for fireworks at my club so signing off now. Hopefully nobody mistakes them for UFOs. But you never know….
I just lit off a bunch myself  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 9:58 pm : link
If they confuse em, fuck em
Looks like everybody reacted normally.  
Jimmy Googs : 7/4/2021 10:15 pm : link
They said cool fireworks and went home.

Nothing to see here…
These kids today  
mattlawson : 7/4/2021 10:31 pm : link
Don’t know what they’re getting - don’t know what they’re missing
RE: These kids today  
Jimmy Googs : 7/4/2021 10:37 pm : link
In comment 15299430 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Don’t know what they’re getting - don’t know what they’re missing


They’re using common sense…
This Australian report from the 1950s about US efforts  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 9:24 am : link
Really interesting reading
Link - ( New Window )
Rice university news with a great post  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 12:30 pm : link
“ People commonly assumed then that the UFO phenomenon was not serious or was some kind of “California” thing. But that is simply not true, and it has never been true. Some of the earliest and most dramatic documented modern encounters have been around nuclear military sites and in cultures and places like Brazil, France, New Mexico — in the summer of 1945, just a few miles from the recently radiated Trinity atomic bomb site and just a week after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki — and New England. The latter case involved a mixed-race couple who were civil rights activists, no less. The U.S. military, the U.S. intelligence services, American space exploration, Western colonialism, indigenous American cosmologies, a major Black religion — the Nation of Islam — U.S.-Mexico borderlands, Latin America, American-Soviet and now American-Russian relations, NATO, the aerospace and aviation industries, Western esoteric and mystical currents, science fiction literature and the history of science have all been involved. And that is just the beginning.

To study the UFO phenomenon adequately is, in actual fact, to study pretty much everything. It is also to come up against, hard, the realization that the institutional or university order of knowledge within which we work and think today, an order that effectively splits the sciences off from the humanities, is simply not helpful, and certainly not reflective of the reality we are trying to understand. The difficult truth is that the UFO phenomenon has both an objective “hard” aspect (think fighter jet videos, photographs, alleged metamaterials, apparent advanced propulsion methods, and landing marks) and a subjective “human” aspect (think close encounters, multiple and coordinated visual sightings, altered states of consciousness, visionary displays, often of a most baroque or sci-fi sort, and experienced traumatic or transcendent abductions). And both sides — both the material and the mental dimensions — are incredibly important to get a sense of the full picture.

Of course, one can slice up the UFO phenomenon into the “scientific” and the “humanistic,” but one will never understand it by doing so. That, in the end, is why I think the subject is so incredibly important: it bears a particular power to challenge, or just obliterate, our present order of knowledge and its arbitrary divisions. Whatever “it” is, it simply does not behave according to our rules and assumptions. Period.”
Link - ( New Window )
That is the most incoherent statement...  
BamaBlue : 7/6/2021 12:34 pm : link
I've seen in a long time. That Rice University crap is worse than psycho-babble, it's a desperate cry for psychological intervention.

Matt... if you're trying to convince people and change their way of thinking, you're failing badly.
RE: That is the most incoherent statement...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/6/2021 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15299940 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
I've seen in a long time. That Rice University crap is worse than psycho-babble, it's a desperate cry for psychological intervention.

Matt... if you're trying to convince people and change their way of thinking, you're failing badly.


LOL. I was thinking the same exact thing. That write-up read like someone sprinkled in a bunch of large words without even knowing what the meaning was! "Baroque"?? OK

By the way - anyone ever wonder why the UFO's are commonly seen around military installations? Could be they are military?? Nahhhhhh
RE: RE: That is the most incoherent statement...  
giants#1 : 7/6/2021 12:47 pm : link
In comment 15299950 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15299940 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


I've seen in a long time. That Rice University crap is worse than psycho-babble, it's a desperate cry for psychological intervention.

Matt... if you're trying to convince people and change their way of thinking, you're failing badly.



LOL. I was thinking the same exact thing. That write-up read like someone sprinkled in a bunch of large words without even knowing what the meaning was! "Baroque"?? OK

By the way - anyone ever wonder why the UFO's are commonly seen around military installations? Could be they are military?? Nahhhhhh


I can't imagine how a nuclear explosion could cause people to see things previously unimaginable...
It’s not my role to empty a cup  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 3:30 pm : link
Which is already full
Another witness to Nimitz has come forward  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 3:41 pm : link
Via Steven greenstreet of the NY Post
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: That is the most incoherent statement...  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/6/2021 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15299950 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15299940 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


I've seen in a long time. That Rice University crap is worse than psycho-babble, it's a desperate cry for psychological intervention.

Matt... if you're trying to convince people and change their way of thinking, you're failing badly.



LOL. I was thinking the same exact thing. That write-up read like someone sprinkled in a bunch of large words without even knowing what the meaning was! "Baroque"?? OK

By the way - anyone ever wonder why the UFO's are commonly seen around military installations? Could be they are military?? Nahhhhhh


I think mattlawson is Jeffrey Kripal, they have an uncanny similarity in writing styles.
RE: It’s not my role to empty a cup  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/6/2021 3:44 pm : link
In comment 15300111 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Which is already full


If I find a cup full of shit, I either rinse it out or throw it away.
That’s the beauty of the forum  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 4:21 pm : link
Discussion with those with other viewpoints. That you keep coming back tells me otherwise fat man
RE: It’s not my role to empty a cup  
BamaBlue : 7/6/2021 4:26 pm : link
In comment 15300111 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Which is already full


You're flooding the zone with the same kind of unreliable or unverifiable 'information' that plagues 'documentary' television shows on UFO's. There is always a hook to these shows that turns-out to be loosely bundled pieces of information that leads to the same villains (the US anti-UFO government cabal) and the same conclusion; "We don't know what it is and it's well beyond our understanding, but we have a good guess... Aliens!"
RE: That’s the beauty of the forum  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/6/2021 4:28 pm : link
In comment 15300143 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Discussion with those with other viewpoints. That you keep coming back tells me otherwise fat man


I'm coming back to see if the reference to "facts" have been backed up or that there has been credible images posted to back up the idea that "these things are real". Instead, I'm left with images of Lite-Brite and assorted ramblings that reference the term "Baroque" for some unknown reason....

A cup of shit seems pretty aptly decriptive
Someone explain to me  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 4:58 pm : link
How the military can claim we dont have this technology, all our personnel and systems were of sound mind and in tact and have captured these incursions - and no one here bats an eye from that.

You’re own government just told you 143/144 events in the last 15 years they looked at remain unexplained.

How are you trying to paint me as some kind of psycho with those points as they are. This is happening right in front of us on real time - not a bad tv show
No one..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/6/2021 5:02 pm : link
is trying to paint you as a psycho.

If anything, you're doing that all on your own. Strings of posts showing nothing. Rambling comments from questionable sources.

This is all on you, Chief.
time travel  
RasputinPrime : 7/6/2021 5:14 pm : link
military tech or some form of alien life. It's a great time to be alive.
RE: No one..  
widmerseyebrow : 7/6/2021 5:22 pm : link
Quote:
Strings of posts showing nothing. Rambling comments from questionable sources.


And yet you keep coming back...
RE: RE: No one..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/6/2021 5:23 pm : link
In comment 15300200 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:


Quote:


Strings of posts showing nothing. Rambling comments from questionable sources.



And yet you keep coming back...


As do you. Is there a fucking point somewhere?
RE: RE: RE: No one..  
widmerseyebrow : 7/6/2021 5:26 pm : link
In comment 15300201 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
As do you. Is there a fucking point somewhere?


Yea, I'm coming to the UFO thread to see UFO content, good bad and in between.

Coming here just to argue and insult for a week? Now that would be psychotic.
Boy am I glad...  
PwndPapi : 7/6/2021 5:43 pm : link
We've removed all that...stigma.

If you read the report from commander Slaight above  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 5:52 pm : link
He corroborates what two other pilots that witnessed the tic tac in 2004 saw as well as describes the craft hovering, creating a distortion like shimmer around itself, and zipping off to the point no human could have withstood those forces.

So we have here anti-gravitic craft, or unmanned drones capable of those maneuvers back then, or something else that can explain those maneuvers if you take the black project US secret tech stance. I sincerely doubt in 2004 we had perfected that kind of technology - almost on 20 years nothing comes close to that in our inventory.

Unless you think everyone is lying through their teeth here - this is something we only wish we had. Would love the military to come out and say we’re just playing with our toys here - why wouldn’t they of a show of force is what their after. They haven’t.
RE: If you read the report from commander Slaight above  
PwndPapi : 7/6/2021 6:02 pm : link
In comment 15300224 mattlawson said:
Quote:
He corroborates what two other pilots that witnessed the tic tac in 2004 saw as well as describes the craft hovering, creating a distortion like shimmer around itself, and zipping off to the point no human could have withstood those forces.

So we have here anti-gravitic craft, or unmanned drones capable of those maneuvers back then, or something else that can explain those maneuvers if you take the black project US secret tech stance. I sincerely doubt in 2004 we had perfected that kind of technology - almost on 20 years nothing comes close to that in our inventory.

Unless you think everyone is lying through their teeth here - this is something we only wish we had. Would love the military to come out and say we’re just playing with our toys here - why wouldn’t they of a show of force is what their after. They haven’t.


Yeah, here's the thing: No civilian knew we had or were developing radar stealth aircraft. The F-117 was in development for over a decade until they were brought into service in 1983 and its widely publicized use in Desert Storm. Up until then, few in the Pentagon even know such aircraft existed and for anyone fortunate enough to see these craft in flight during the late 70s or early 80s, you'd easily think they were alien craft.

Now think about the thousands of projects that never made it to production.

RE: If you read the report from commander Slaight above  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/6/2021 6:02 pm : link
In comment 15300224 mattlawson said:
Quote:
He corroborates what two other pilots that witnessed the tic tac in 2004 saw as well as describes the craft hovering, creating a distortion like shimmer around itself, and zipping off to the point no human could have withstood those forces.

So we have here anti-gravitic craft, or unmanned drones capable of those maneuvers back then, or something else that can explain those maneuvers if you take the black project US secret tech stance. I sincerely doubt in 2004 we had perfected that kind of technology - almost on 20 years nothing comes close to that in our inventory.

Unless you think everyone is lying through their teeth here - this is something we only wish we had. Would love the military to come out and say we’re just playing with our toys here - why wouldn’t they of a show of force is what their after. They haven’t.


Holographic projections to test the new radar. That would certainly be under the possibility of our secret tech and during a rare training exercise. There is no proof it was a physical object.
Holographs that jam radar?  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 6:11 pm : link
Tell me more
Boeing estimates 821,250,000 flights during those 15 years  
Bill2 : 7/6/2021 6:18 pm : link
So 144 items is .000000017 of the flight

Since the average global flight time is 4 hours then the number is 144 quick incidents out of 3,286,000,000 hours of flying you are obsessing over an yet unclassified incidents that occurred .00000000173 of the time.

If they all happened.

I suspect most of us have a higher chance of seeing dancing elephants while sitting next to Eva Green in the next hour.

For me, this doesn't yet reach even the level of a First World Problem.

I dont think people are objecting to what fascinates you. I think they are prioritizing what matters to their lives.

Once they have made that decision for themselves, then continuing to try to convince them otherwise is someplace between nuts and trolling (a form of nuts).

Maybe you have another interest that someone might be engage in a discussion with you?
RE: RE: If you read the report from commander Slaight above  
widmerseyebrow : 7/6/2021 6:49 pm : link
In comment 15300232 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Holographic projections to test the new radar. That would certainly be under the possibility of our secret tech and during a rare training exercise. There is no proof it was a physical object.


I'd want to hear the physics behind that theory. Convincing holograms are coming around but in super controlled settings (i.e. a room with special equipment). Doing that out at sea on a clear day in 2004 so that it's vivid enough to four people from two very different perspectives...That might be as much of an undertaking as a physical vehicle performing physics-defying maneuvers.

Then you factor in that it's is picked up by radar and IR...

I still think it's a physical vehicle/drone of some sort.
Worse a  
Big Al : 7/6/2021 7:01 pm : link
read. Sorry if this link is one of the hundred already posted.
Link - ( New Window )
Already read it bill  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 7:27 pm : link
It can spoof radar but can’t actually do what fravor or two other pilots saw I. 2004, right?
This is an about prioritization for people meeting us here  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 7:29 pm : link
This is an about prioritization for people meeting us he
Worth  
Big Al : 7/6/2021 7:31 pm : link
not worse. Sorry on behalf of Bill. We
Auto correct - didn’t mean to post that  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 7:39 pm : link
This isn’t about how remote or common these occurrences are for the military, it’s not about prioritizing what goes into the building of the framework to live your life by either. It’s really simple for me - unidentified Ariel phenomena exist, have, and the truth of the matter is finally coming out.

There are people here that saw the Phoenix lights and NOT flares, I’ve seen weird military looking type drones and I’ve seen orbs that take a bit more to explain. Something is happening that has been covered up and laughed at for decades. Compared to all the airline flights on the planet it doesn’t matter how small the % is - if it points to a non-human intelligence all it takes is 1 to be incredibly life changing. Why diminish that?

Believers have been made out to be fools. It stands to reason that as more admissions come out, the more explaining will have to be done going back decades. I don’t know how to government can possibly do that and not look horrible for all they’ve done to discredit and ruin peoples lives trying to drive these stories over the years. It’s the biggest story in the world - and people are proud to keep their heads in the sand on this. Mind boggling
There has been zero  
PwndPapi : 7/6/2021 7:44 pm : link
to come out that was not already out there for public consumption; and, any government reports that have come out are so heavily redacted the reports might as well be titled, "Here you go, dunces."

"Only one of these need to be true," is not a compelling argument.
RE: There has been zero  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 7:50 pm : link
In comment 15300302 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
to come out that was not already out there for public consumption; and, any government reports that have come out are so heavily redacted the reports might as well be titled, "Here you go, dunces."

"Only one of these need to be true," is not a compelling argument.


I haven’t heard anything from you in response to explain what we’re seeing here to me thats compelling. I was fine with them being unidentified because that’s exactly what they are. They don’t know and neither do you.
This one could get interesting  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 8:02 pm : link
Obviously we’re all waiting for the metamaterial release of Info because there would be your physical evidence - but this is an little appetizer for that one.

Whether you believe Col Corso or not - glad these stories keep popping up
Link - ( New Window )
The difference is  
PwndPapi : 7/6/2021 8:05 pm : link
I don't claim to know what they are because I'm not privy to the classified information. Neither are you. It's isn't my job to disprove these are ET. This has been explained to you over and over again and yet you persist with the "well, what ifs" and claiming we're sheep.

You're doing the opposite of what you claimed to be after earlier.
RE: Rice university news with a great post  
Jimmy Googs : 7/6/2021 8:16 pm : link
In comment 15299932 mattlawson said:
Quote:
“ People commonly assumed then that the UFO phenomenon was not serious or was some kind of “California” thing. But that is simply not true, and it has never been true. Some of the earliest and most dramatic documented modern encounters have been around nuclear military sites and in cultures and places like Brazil, France, New Mexico — in the summer of 1945, just a few miles from the recently radiated Trinity atomic bomb site and just a week after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki — and New England. The latter case involved a mixed-race couple who were civil rights activists, no less. The U.S. military, the U.S. intelligence services, American space exploration, Western colonialism, indigenous American cosmologies, a major Black religion — the Nation of Islam — U.S.-Mexico borderlands, Latin America, American-Soviet and now American-Russian relations, NATO, the aerospace and aviation industries, Western esoteric and mystical currents, science fiction literature and the history of science have all been involved. And that is just the beginning.

To study the UFO phenomenon adequately is, in actual fact, to study pretty much everything. It is also to come up against, hard, the realization that the institutional or university order of knowledge within which we work and think today, an order that effectively splits the sciences off from the humanities, is simply not helpful, and certainly not reflective of the reality we are trying to understand. The difficult truth is that the UFO phenomenon has both an objective “hard” aspect (think fighter jet videos, photographs, alleged metamaterials, apparent advanced propulsion methods, and landing marks) and a subjective “human” aspect (think close encounters, multiple and coordinated visual sightings, altered states of consciousness, visionary displays, often of a most baroque or sci-fi sort, and experienced traumatic or transcendent abductions). And both sides — both the material and the mental dimensions — are incredibly important to get a sense of the full picture.

Of course, one can slice up the UFO phenomenon into the “scientific” and the “humanistic,” but one will never understand it by doing so. That, in the end, is why I think the subject is so incredibly important: it bears a particular power to challenge, or just obliterate, our present order of knowledge and its arbitrary divisions. Whatever “it” is, it simply does not behave according to our rules and assumptions. Period.” Link - ( New Window )


what a bunch of psycho-babble nonsense...
Ha!  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 8:41 pm : link
.
RE: Worse a  
widmerseyebrow : 7/6/2021 8:52 pm : link
In comment 15300259 Big Al said:
Quote:
read. Sorry if this link is one of the hundred already posted. Link - ( New Window )


Pretty cool. If we're taking Navy patents at face value then we also have this "UFO" gravity drive tech figured out already.

Also interesting that Lockheed Martin has been talking about compact fusion reactors in the same timeframe.
Link - ( New Window )
Chris mellons latest on the UAP report  
mattlawson : 7/6/2021 9:03 pm : link
Worth a read
Link - ( New Window )
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/6/2021 9:45 pm : link
Another "worth a read" that isn't worth anything, let alone "a read".
this thread is comedy gold  
Greg from LI : 7/7/2021 9:30 am : link
.
worth a look...  
PwndPapi : 7/7/2021 11:47 am : link


Ha  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 12:10 pm : link
.
RE: Chris mellons latest on the UAP report  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/7/2021 12:11 pm : link
In comment 15300351 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Worth a read Link - ( New Window )


This is why I don't trust these guys. In his own report he has tone that isn't consistent at all. He's just another guy that desperately wants to believe.

"The report carefully states that “some” UAPs may be Russian or Chinese, although it plainly acknowledges there is no evidence of that. Notice the report says only “some.” Given that military sightings of these bizarre craft have been occurring since the 1940’s, it seems inconceivable the U.S., Russia, or China can account for the phenomenon in its entirety."

So here he's essentially alluding to the fact its some advanced beings. But then here it's a national security issue and something must be done!

"I suggest we begin by recognizing that the immediate challenge is existential, not academic. It is first and foremost a matter of national security. There is nothing anyone is going to see through a telescope that helps to resolve the issue and the best tools we have available to find answers are, right now, mostly in the hands of the national security community."

What could we possibly do if it's aliens? What can we do other than try to observe and what could possibly be gleaned from just observing? Not much. Real life isn't Indepance Day or The Tomorrow War. They would be so much further advanced than us only hope is that they aren't hostile. And if it's truly aliens that are hostile, we'd be wiped already or they are on their way. Nothing we can do about it.

If you follow Sam Harris’s work  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 12:14 pm : link
This is kindof a big deal.
Link - ( New Window )
The end of the world is  
Big Al : 7/7/2021 12:15 pm : link
nigh.
And..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/7/2021 12:19 pm : link
now the term "big deal" has been massively cheapened.

RE: And..  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/7/2021 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15300667 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
now the term "big deal" has been massively cheapened.


Direct quote, cheapened is right

"In recent weeks, the author and podcaster Sam Harris, in no fewer than three separate podcasts, has stated repeatedly and unambiguously that someone in or with connections to the U.S. government has personally reached out to him so that he can begin to wrap his brain around the fact that UFOs represent a non-human intelligence and think about how he might help prepare the public for that disclosure."

I mean that could be fucking Lou Elizonda and Tom Delonge by that definition. Dude, this is why nobody trusts your interpretation of data. This is not a big deal at all. Not to mention it's a quote from an entertainer, it's called self-promotion especially when details are light.
Wow a disagreement on a message board  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 12:31 pm : link
Who knew
RE: If you follow Sam Harris’s work  
PwndPapi : 7/7/2021 12:38 pm : link
In comment 15300661 mattlawson said:
Quote:
This is kindof a big deal. Link - ( New Window )


I subscribe to Sam Harris' paid podcasts and I've listened to all three of those podcasts. One of those was with Neil de Grasse Tyson, which I cited above. That "article" is editorializing what Harris said - at best.

I suggest you listen to the podcasts. Most sensible folks would not come away with that impression.
RE: Wow a disagreement on a message board  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/7/2021 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15300681 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Who knew


It isn't really a disagreement here. It is the continual confusion on what information you are posting and why you're doing it.

What purpose is emptying your archives of half-baked information serving?

The request made way above on this thread was to show credible information and photos that show concrete evidence and you've provided nothing to meet that criteria.

You took it as a call to flood the page with a bunch of nonsensical shit, especially the Jeffrey Kipral piece (do some investigation on that kook). And to exhibit odd things like the belief in dowsing.
The Nazi Bell  
ArtVandelay : 7/7/2021 1:17 pm : link
Fact or fiction?
The Die Glocke - ( New Window )
uh oh, I'm feeling superstitious  
santacruzom : 7/7/2021 1:23 pm : link
The last time there was long-going thread on a scientific topic in which expert observations or concerns were dismissed or ridiculed, Coronavirus evolved from a butt of jokes into a global pandemic that has altered the daily lives of nearly everyone on the planet.

Based on that experience I guess I should be expecting the anal probe soon enough.
RE: RE: If you follow Sam Harris’s work  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15300688 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15300661 mattlawson said:


Quote:


This is kindof a big deal. Link - ( New Window )



I subscribe to Sam Harris' paid podcasts and I've listened to all three of those podcasts. One of those was with Neil de Grasse Tyson, which I cited above. That "article" is editorializing what Harris said - at best.

I suggest you listen to the podcasts. Most sensible folks would not come away with that impression.


I did listen to the podcasts, 2 of the 3 mentioned. I followed Sam Harris for the better part of a decade and to try to minimize this when he has spent a career Systematically breaking down religious views of all kinds, and leaning hard-core in the pursuit of scientific truth, when he comes out and says something like this which is not an inaccurate take on his comments… it’s a big Fucking deal. Sam Harris is not in the position of making bold claims like that around fringe topics like this especially for clicks.

Combining three quotes into one post, editorializing? I think you’re trying to downplay the ultimate message of what he’s trying to get across
RE: RE: RE: If you follow Sam Harris’s work  
PwndPapi : 7/7/2021 1:30 pm : link
In comment 15300718 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15300688 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


In comment 15300661 mattlawson said:


Quote:


This is kindof a big deal. Link - ( New Window )



I subscribe to Sam Harris' paid podcasts and I've listened to all three of those podcasts. One of those was with Neil de Grasse Tyson, which I cited above. That "article" is editorializing what Harris said - at best.

I suggest you listen to the podcasts. Most sensible folks would not come away with that impression.



I did listen to the podcasts, 2 of the 3 mentioned. I followed Sam Harris for the better part of a decade and to try to minimize this when he has spent a career Systematically breaking down religious views of all kinds, and leaning hard-core in the pursuit of scientific truth, when he comes out and says something like this which is not an inaccurate take on his comments… it’s a big Fucking deal. Sam Harris is not in the position of making bold claims like that around fringe topics like this especially for clicks.

Combining three quotes into one post, editorializing? I think you’re trying to downplay the ultimate message of what he’s trying to get across


I think you're searching for any flotsam you can latch onto to make your position appear steady and well reasoned.
Harris' comments are in no way indicative of his beliefs in ETs - one way or another. And no, it's not a big deal.
RE: The Nazi Bell  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 1:31 pm : link
In comment 15300713 ArtVandelay said:
Quote:
Fact or fiction? The Die Glocke - ( New Window )



That specific item - i’ve never seen anything to really blow my hair back on that one. I do think the US got whatever they could from their scientists and it set off a race between US and Russia after the war.
Time will tell  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 1:32 pm : link
Won’t it. Until then the objective is to keep going
RE: Time will tell  
PwndPapi : 7/7/2021 1:38 pm : link
In comment 15300731 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Won’t it. Until then the objective is to keep going


Of those you've interacted with on this thread, how many do you think you have convinced of time-traveling beings, ETs, unnatural phenomena, et al? Give me a percentage.
Explain to me how Harris’ points here can be taken any other way  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 1:40 pm : link
Than in support of UAPs exist and have likely non-human origins in terms of the technology

“ “I’ve received some private outreach, and perhaps you have, I know other people in our orbit have, people who are claiming that the government has known much more about UFOs than they have let on until now, and this conversation is actually about to become more prominent, and … whoever is left standing when the music stops, it’s not going to be a comfortable position to be in as a super rigorous scientific skeptic who’s been saying there’s no there there for the last 75 years.”

RE: Explain to me how Harris’ points here can be taken any other way  
PwndPapi : 7/7/2021 1:45 pm : link
In comment 15300735 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Than in support of UAPs exist and have likely non-human origins in terms of the technology

“ “I’ve received some private outreach, and perhaps you have, I know other people in our orbit have, people who are claiming that the government has known much more about UFOs than they have let on until now, and this conversation is actually about to become more prominent, and … whoever is left standing when the music stops, it’s not going to be a comfortable position to be in as a super rigorous scientific skeptic who’s been saying there’s no there there for the last 75 years.”


Are you for real?

What part of, "I've received some private outreach," leads you to believe a government official specifically selected Sam Harris to usher in the ET era in America? What part of that statement leads you to believe he believes UAPs originate offworld?

Again, you're mischaracterizing what he's saying from, "If it's ETs, it will be interesting," to "I know something you don't".

It's big news only to those who can't read.
RE: RE: Time will tell  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 1:55 pm : link
In comment 15300734 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15300731 mattlawson said:


Quote:


Won’t it. Until then the objective is to keep going



Of those you've interacted with on this thread, how many do you think you have convinced of time-traveling beings, ETs, unnatural phenomena, et al? Give me a percentage.


Really hard to say, especially given the circumstances of How the conversation has gone. Had it been in person and I can observe the audience, interact a bit more, I’d have a better idea.

My goal is not really to outright convince, too lofty. Cliche but It’s up to you to decide. all I’m doing is sharing what that I think is not easily debunked data and then hope that makes you think. There’s a lot of information out there that I think most people are not familiar with unless they follow the topic extremely closely, which no one does here I gather. very few do.

There’s been very little feedback here from the gallery except for the trolls and skeptics, typical. I think for a lot of reasons, many people just choose to lurk especially in these topics, but another portion of humanity would not want to be so forthcoming with what they cannot explain and don’t know. That is actually the most fun part of what I do for work - getting people to explain their view of ambiguity and make decisions from there. Here at BBI given the culture - the stakes are so high for being trolled incessantly after you’ve come out and said ‘hey I’m kind of into this fringe topic, what do you all think?’ And you know - who can blame them, it’s sort of a form of social suicide for a lot of people but I really don’t give a shit. Do you think I’m sabotaging myself? You all know absolutely nothing about me other than the fact that I like the Giants, like to fish, am a good cook and like to discuss paranormal NFTs

It would be awesome for people to come out of the woodwork and start saying hey you know what you’ve given us a lot to think about and I had no idea any of this was going on, I had no idea the military was so invested in this kind of disclosure these days, etc. but it probably will not happen.

My genuine hope is something new comes out every day or two so we can keep this thread going.
RE: RE: Explain to me how Harris’ points here can be taken any other way  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15300740 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15300735 mattlawson said:


Quote:


Than in support of UAPs exist and have likely non-human origins in terms of the technology

“ “I’ve received some private outreach, and perhaps you have, I know other people in our orbit have, people who are claiming that the government has known much more about UFOs than they have let on until now, and this conversation is actually about to become more prominent, and … whoever is left standing when the music stops, it’s not going to be a comfortable position to be in as a super rigorous scientific skeptic who’s been saying there’s no there there for the last 75 years.”




Are you for real?

What part of, "I've received some private outreach," leads you to believe a government official specifically selected Sam Harris to usher in the ET era in America? What part of that statement leads you to believe he believes UAPs originate offworld?

Again, you're mischaracterizing what he's saying from, "If it's ETs, it will be interesting," to "I know something you don't".

It's big news only to those who can't read.



Didn’t he say a former government official? Up until this point - Is he credible or not? Why would he lie about that? Why would he risk his reputation and credibility for a couple of podcast points?

Point is - it’s a big fucking deal when a scientist of his stature comes out it and says skeptics are going to be in trouble as disclosure of UFO information comes out.
why here?  
Bill2 : 7/7/2021 2:07 pm : link
Why not spend the same effort on a UFO or Aliens Are Coming based website?

Learn more.

Be respected

Be thanked

Make friends

Go to Area 51 together and camp out with telescopes. Then come back in time for the Giants Season.

Why spend time with skeptics and trolls of your topic, hobby and interest? Go enjoy it.
RE: RE: RE: Explain to me how Harris’ points here can be taken any other way  
PwndPapi : 7/7/2021 2:13 pm : link
In comment 15300752 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15300740 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


In comment 15300735 mattlawson said:


Quote:


Than in support of UAPs exist and have likely non-human origins in terms of the technology

“ “I’ve received some private outreach, and perhaps you have, I know other people in our orbit have, people who are claiming that the government has known much more about UFOs than they have let on until now, and this conversation is actually about to become more prominent, and … whoever is left standing when the music stops, it’s not going to be a comfortable position to be in as a super rigorous scientific skeptic who’s been saying there’s no there there for the last 75 years.”




Are you for real?

What part of, "I've received some private outreach," leads you to believe a government official specifically selected Sam Harris to usher in the ET era in America? What part of that statement leads you to believe he believes UAPs originate offworld?

Again, you're mischaracterizing what he's saying from, "If it's ETs, it will be interesting," to "I know something you don't".

It's big news only to those who can't read.




Didn’t he say a former government official? Up until this point - Is he credible or not? Why would he lie about that? Why would he risk his reputation and credibility for a couple of podcast points?

Point is - it’s a big fucking deal when a scientist of his stature comes out it and says skeptics are going to be in trouble as disclosure of UFO information comes out.


I don't think he's lying or risked his reputation because as he didn't say what you think he said. All he's said is that some private entities (he and NDT are acquiantences of) had reached out to him. That's it. You ran with it and inferred a bunch of stuff he's never said.
I hear  
Big Al : 7/7/2021 2:13 pm : link
there was a sighting on Maple Street. Slowing turning from skeptic to full fledged troll.
“Let’s not be a mob”  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 2:26 pm : link
And yet, they were. Human nature?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Explain to me how Harris’ points here can be taken any other way  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 2:28 pm : link
In comment 15300762 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15300752 mattlawson said:


Quote:


In comment 15300740 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


In comment 15300735 mattlawson said:


Quote:


Than in support of UAPs exist and have likely non-human origins in terms of the technology

“ “I’ve received some private outreach, and perhaps you have, I know other people in our orbit have, people who are claiming that the government has known much more about UFOs than they have let on until now, and this conversation is actually about to become more prominent, and … whoever is left standing when the music stops, it’s not going to be a comfortable position to be in as a super rigorous scientific skeptic who’s been saying there’s no there there for the last 75 years.”




Are you for real?

What part of, "I've received some private outreach," leads you to believe a government official specifically selected Sam Harris to usher in the ET era in America? What part of that statement leads you to believe he believes UAPs originate offworld?

Again, you're mischaracterizing what he's saying from, "If it's ETs, it will be interesting," to "I know something you don't".

It's big news only to those who can't read.




Didn’t he say a former government official? Up until this point - Is he credible or not? Why would he lie about that? Why would he risk his reputation and credibility for a couple of podcast points?

Point is - it’s a big fucking deal when a scientist of his stature comes out it and says skeptics are going to be in trouble as disclosure of UFO information comes out.



I don't think he's lying or risked his reputation because as he didn't say what you think he said. All he's said is that some private entities (he and NDT are acquiantences of) had reached out to him. That's it. You ran with it and inferred a bunch of stuff he's never said.


Why even touch it if you’re him, and he did say it. He literally said it in his own words and of his own volition. Why relay the story all?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Explain to me how Harris’ points here can be taken any other way  
PwndPapi : 7/7/2021 3:24 pm : link
In comment 15300782 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15300762 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


In comment 15300752 mattlawson said:


Quote:


In comment 15300740 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


In comment 15300735 mattlawson said:


Quote:


Than in support of UAPs exist and have likely non-human origins in terms of the technology

“ “I’ve received some private outreach, and perhaps you have, I know other people in our orbit have, people who are claiming that the government has known much more about UFOs than they have let on until now, and this conversation is actually about to become more prominent, and … whoever is left standing when the music stops, it’s not going to be a comfortable position to be in as a super rigorous scientific skeptic who’s been saying there’s no there there for the last 75 years.”




Are you for real?

What part of, "I've received some private outreach," leads you to believe a government official specifically selected Sam Harris to usher in the ET era in America? What part of that statement leads you to believe he believes UAPs originate offworld?

Again, you're mischaracterizing what he's saying from, "If it's ETs, it will be interesting," to "I know something you don't".

It's big news only to those who can't read.




Didn’t he say a former government official? Up until this point - Is he credible or not? Why would he lie about that? Why would he risk his reputation and credibility for a couple of podcast points?

Point is - it’s a big fucking deal when a scientist of his stature comes out it and says skeptics are going to be in trouble as disclosure of UFO information comes out.



I don't think he's lying or risked his reputation because as he didn't say what you think he said. All he's said is that some private entities (he and NDT are acquiantences of) had reached out to him. That's it. You ran with it and inferred a bunch of stuff he's never said.



Why even touch it if you’re him, and he did say it. He literally said it in his own words and of his own volition. Why relay the story all?


Presumably, the vast majority of his listeners are capable of hearing what he's saying without needing to shoehorn his thoughts into their UFO conspiracies.
That perception can be a bitch  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 3:49 pm : link
Happy Roswell anniversary - 7/7/47
Site proposing a theory on how UAPs as vehicles could work  
widmerseyebrow : 7/7/2021 7:01 pm : link
within the laws of physics.
Link - ( New Window )
Really interesting read  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 7:27 pm : link
Thanks for that
Just came across J Allen Hyneks book on slideshare  
mattlawson : 7/7/2021 8:40 pm : link
The ufo experience - a scientific inquiry
Link - ( New Window )
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/7/2021 9:52 pm : link
just came across it??

And you had to share?
RE: why here?  
mattlawson : 7/8/2021 5:42 am : link
In comment 15300758 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Why not spend the same effort on a UFO or Aliens Are Coming based website?

Learn more.

Be respected

Be thanked

Make friends

Go to Area 51 together and camp out with telescopes. Then come back in time for the Giants Season.

Why spend time with skeptics and trolls of your topic, hobby and interest? Go enjoy it.



I do follow the topic elsewhere
RE: LOL..  
mattlawson : 7/8/2021 5:43 am : link
In comment 15301182 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
just came across it??

And you had to share?


Correct!
RE: RE: LOL..  
Big Al : 7/8/2021 7:20 am : link
In comment 15301275 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 15301182 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


just came across it??

And you had to share?



Correct!
Sharing is caring.
It’s actually reading quite well  
mattlawson : 7/8/2021 9:14 am : link
Hurricane winds and all - decent beach read
Chris Mellon shared the official Nimitz report here  
mattlawson : 7/8/2021 10:50 am : link
Certainly doesn’t seem like something lite bright could do
Link - ( New Window )
Westtall incident teacher comes forward  
mattlawson : 7/8/2021 11:05 am : link
200 witnesses, military threatened him if he ever spoke about it. Westall is one of the major mass UFO sightings in Australia
Link - ( New Window )
Another Ross Coulthart interview  
kelsto811 : 7/8/2021 11:33 am : link
Was just posted yesterday on Project Human podcast. This guy really nails down how it is crazy that the mainstream media isn't eating this up and how there's still doubters. The best point he brings up is the leaked DNC emails where there are open discussions between Tom DeLonge, General McCassland, and Hillary Clinton's campaign manager John Podesta. They are openly discussing how to disclose this to the public, it doesn't get much more obvious. If Hillary had won, she was going to be the disclosure president.
Apple Podcast - Project Human - ( New Window )
Sure..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/8/2021 11:34 am : link
appears that matt has no shame in what he posts on the subject and continues to fill the thread with ramblings and terrible links.

This basically was his version of a porn dump.
You can get off the ride at any time  
mattlawson : 7/8/2021 11:50 am : link
.
RE: You can get off the ride at any time  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/8/2021 12:18 pm : link
In comment 15301456 mattlawson said:
Quote:
.


And you can stop posting useless links and info at any time too.
If you find no utility in the information I’m posting  
mattlawson : 7/8/2021 12:28 pm : link
In the UFO thread, you know what to do
RE: Westtall incident teacher comes forward  
kelsto811 : 7/8/2021 1:02 pm : link
In comment 15301395 mattlawson said:
Quote:
200 witnesses, military threatened him if he ever spoke about it. Westall is one of the major mass UFO sightings in Australia Link - ( New Window )


This is a great one, complete with government cover up. They told the teacher Andrews to be quiet or else he'd lose his job
RE: RE: Westtall incident teacher comes forward  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/8/2021 1:50 pm : link
In comment 15301505 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
In comment 15301395 mattlawson said:


Quote:


200 witnesses, military threatened him if he ever spoke about it. Westall is one of the major mass UFO sightings in Australia Link - ( New Window )



This is a great one, complete with government cover up. They told the teacher Andrews to be quiet or else he'd lose his job


There are many reasons that the military would tell him to shut up about it other than aliens.
List some compelling reasons  
mattlawson : 7/8/2021 3:53 pm : link
.
The Ariel School, Zimbabwe  
mattlawson : 7/10/2021 1:04 pm : link
BBC posted this one yesterday
Link - ( New Window )
RE: The Ariel School, Zimbabwe  
BamaBlue : 7/10/2021 2:32 pm : link
In comment 15302620 mattlawson said:
Quote:
BBC posted this one yesterday Link - ( New Window )


To me... this is the single most compelling (alien, interdimensional, future human, etc.) encounter. It is absolutely bizarre, but impossible for all of those children to be guided in their intial witness testimony, or their recollections decades later. This is the gold standard to say there is something that we can't comprehend.
I’m awaiting the documentary for like 15 years  
mattlawson : 7/10/2021 2:39 pm : link
John Mack - Harvard professor absolutely convinced by these encounters. Of course skeptics will say he implanted his views in the minds of children. I’ve always wanted a long form documentary of this one.

James Fox concluded his amazing doc The Phenomenon with several minutes of Ariel School - was really well done
Rendlesham Forest on the Basement office, NY Post  
mattlawson : 7/10/2021 2:53 pm : link
US provided medical attention documented as radiation from a UAP - pretty wild
Link - ( New Window )
The Rendlesham Forest one  
moespree : 7/10/2021 3:00 pm : link
Has led to many rumors over the years. Some of which have been debunked. It does seem likely some sort or form of binary code was found at the scene. What it contains is not 100% confirmed, but only reported on based on sources at the scene.

Those reports indicate anything from lat/long coordinates of specific earth sites, to code translated to suggest they are time traveling future human anthropologists. All just rumors, as nothing has ever been confirmed about this supposed binary code.

Given the nature of it being a military base however, it does appear something happened there of significance. Whatever it is, it remains secret.
Something happened  
mattlawson : 7/10/2021 3:17 pm : link
It wasn’t a fucking lighthouse. That’s not the end of the explanation I’m sorry
RE: Rendlesham Forest on the Basement office, NY Post  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/10/2021 3:25 pm : link
In comment 15302666 mattlawson said:
Quote:
US provided medical attention documented as radiation from a UAP - pretty wild Link - ( New Window )


VA granted treatments for heart issues because there was paperwork that said the area had higher radiation levels. However, if you look at the link, there is definitely some confusion over them and the site did hold nuclear weapons for 25 years. Guy looks like he lucked out on a claim more than anything. This is why I don't trust any of the way these things are framed. It's always a bunch of kooks that seem like they are actively trying to push their alien theory without painting the whole picture.

They were trying to make it look like McCain himself was like yeah there are UAPs and we need to do something about it. When in reality, he's just a veteran writing him to have his claim approved when he has some paperwork to back it up. Senators can have those things expedited.
Link - ( New Window )
It can be explained away, sure  
mattlawson : 7/10/2021 4:50 pm : link
Weren’t they also drugged? And it’s odd that the binary code piece didn’t come out for like 25 years. Something beyond the misidentified lighthouse explanation happened there but it’s hard to say what it is. Still - a great unsolved mystery that involves UFOs, Nukes, and a coverup.
Opinion piece in The Hill  
widmerseyebrow : 7/10/2021 6:01 pm : link
.
UFOs are an intriguing science problem - ( New Window )
RE: RE: The Ariel School, Zimbabwe  
bradshaw44 : 7/10/2021 6:04 pm : link
In comment 15302652 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15302620 mattlawson said:


Quote:


BBC posted this one yesterday Link - ( New Window )



To me... this is the single most compelling (alien, interdimensional, future human, etc.) encounter. It is absolutely bizarre, but impossible for all of those children to be guided in their intial witness testimony, or their recollections decades later. This is the gold standard to say there is something that we can't comprehend.


For modern day this is a good one. During the technological age for sure. But for me the newspaper article from Texas near the turn of the century 1900’s is still the most compelling. Absolutely nothing to gain and it’s written so matter of factly, it’s amazing.
I agree  
mattlawson : 7/10/2021 6:27 pm : link
That Texas case is incredibly interesting
RE: It can be explained away, sure  
bradshaw44 : 7/10/2021 6:54 pm : link
In comment 15302709 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Weren’t they also drugged? And it’s odd that the binary code piece didn’t come out for like 25 years. Something beyond the misidentified lighthouse explanation happened there but it’s hard to say what it is. Still - a great unsolved mystery that involves UFOs, Nukes, and a coverup.


I watched an interview with the only British soldier that said he touched the craft. The binary code, he claimed, had coordinates to an old “highly technological/advanced” island off the European coast called new Brasil.

But like others mentioned, he didn’t come out with this information until fairly recently.
RE: RE: It can be explained away, sure  
bradshaw44 : 7/10/2021 6:55 pm : link
In comment 15302757 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 15302709 mattlawson said:


Quote:


Weren’t they also drugged? And it’s odd that the binary code piece didn’t come out for like 25 years. Something beyond the misidentified lighthouse explanation happened there but it’s hard to say what it is. Still - a great unsolved mystery that involves UFOs, Nukes, and a coverup.



I watched an interview with the only British soldier that said he touched the craft. The binary code, he claimed, had coordinates to an old “highly technological/advanced” island off the European coast called new Brasil.

But like others mentioned, he didn’t come out with this information until fairly recently.


And the island disappeared back in ancient times. A la Atlantis.
RE: Opinion piece in The Hill  
mattlawson : 7/10/2021 7:06 pm : link
In comment 15302737 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
. UFOs are an intriguing science problem - ( New Window )



Worth a read ;)
Interviews from Ariel  
mattlawson : 7/10/2021 9:11 pm : link
For those interested
Link - ( New Window )
From barstool sports  
mattlawson : 7/10/2021 9:34 pm : link
The comment about Dave being a narcissist at the end - hilarious
Link - ( New Window )
Snippet from The Phenomenon regarding Roswell  
mattlawson : 7/11/2021 2:51 pm : link
The entire documentary is fantastic - highly recommend
Link - ( New Window )
Or  
Big Al : 7/11/2021 3:16 pm : link
possibly an alien from a UFO.
:  
Big Al : 7/11/2021 3:17 pm : link
:
Link - ( New Window )
I am convinced they exist...  
EricJ : 7/11/2021 3:24 pm : link
a close friend of mine had a high level access to military information and to our radar systems as a third party contractor. This was 30 years ago.

Intentionally leaving out much of the information here, but confirmed they exist.

RE: :  
BamaBlue : 7/11/2021 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15303158 Big Al said:
Quote:
: Link - ( New Window )


This has happened to me… even more diabolical is when they put the glasses someplace I already looked.
RE: I am convinced they exist...  
UConn4523 : 7/11/2021 3:45 pm : link
In comment 15303160 EricJ said:
Quote:
a close friend of mine had a high level access to military information and to our radar systems as a third party contractor. This was 30 years ago.

Intentionally leaving out much of the information here, but confirmed they exist.


So 30 years later the only info leak was to you?
Can you clarify what “they” means?  
mattlawson : 7/11/2021 6:48 pm : link
Assuming you’re serious
Delayed for 50 years  
mattlawson : 7/11/2021 10:11 pm : link
Mystery Of Britain’s Clearest UFO Photo From Calvine Incident Will Be Solved In 2072
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Delayed for 50 years  
Big Al : 7/12/2021 8:24 am : link
In comment 15303513 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Mystery Of Britain’s Clearest UFO Photo From Calvine Incident Will Be Solved In 2072 Link - ( New Window )
Looking forward to it.
Seems like an awful long delay  
mattlawson : 7/12/2021 8:26 am : link
For a blurry picture of a lite brite
RE: Delayed for 50 years  
Jimmy Googs : 7/12/2021 8:37 am : link
In comment 15303513 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Mystery Of Britain’s Clearest UFO Photo From Calvine Incident Will Be Solved In 2072 Link - ( New Window )


Ooh a jet escort! Good pic on pic.

I still enjoy the Hawaii lite-brite competition the best...
The amount of effort that went into this video  
mattlawson : 7/12/2021 4:26 pm : link
Is insane - like Eminem quality rhymes in here. On the ET hypothesis And Jacque Vallee
Link - ( New Window )
More on the Podesta / Fish Wikileaks emails  
mattlawson : 7/12/2021 5:38 pm : link
Quote:
“I had lunch with a senior USAF NCO who had worked for Project Blue Book in the 1970s (after it had been “officially disbanded). He was an ELINT technician (electronic intelligence) who flew in RC-135s from MacDill AFB in Florida. The ‘normal’ target was Cuba where they did lots of snooping and sometimes challenging the Cubans to turn on radar and other systems.

He said there were times when they were diverted from these missions to track UFOs off the east coast of Florida. His claim was the UFOs had a landing and takeoff spot in the ocean east of Miami, north of Bermuda. He also claimed there was a specific electronic signature (frequency) emanating from them when they were going into or coming out of the water, so they were easy to track. On several occasions they filmed the UFO as it transitioned from water to air or vice versa.”
Fish goes on to note that this same individual was occasionally assigned to fly in a USAF weather aircraft during “hurricane-hunting” missions over the same area where UAPs were, by then, known to enter and emerge from the ocean.

“His specific assignment was kept secret from the other crew members. He would always report back to a dedicated USAF intelligence officer on base when they returned from a mission. He did not know where the intel that he collected was sent for processing or storage … (h)igh quality film of UFOs is ‘out there’ somewhere!”

Link - ( New Window )
Kecksburg PA incident  
mattlawson : 7/13/2021 10:59 am : link
Unsolved Mysteries
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Kecksburg PA incident  
widmerseyebrow : 7/13/2021 11:37 am : link
In comment 15304342 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Unsolved Mysteries Link - ( New Window )


I miss that show.
It was so good  
mattlawson : 7/13/2021 2:44 pm : link
Bobby stax
RE: More on the Podesta / Fish Wikileaks emails  
widmerseyebrow : 7/14/2021 1:07 pm : link
Quote:
On the evening of March 5, 2015, Fish wrote to Podesta from his Earthlink account. Based on “significant personal experience,” he said, “I can attest that UFO hunters are looking in the wrong places. Random personal observations, fuzzy photographs, and crop circles will never ‘prove’ the existence of anything, especially since UFO appearances to humans are transitory and somewhat related to the observer’s state of mind.”


I wondered what the "state of mind" bit was referring to. Came across this interview by George Knapp and the "Summoners," a group of hobbyists who are seemingly able to summon a light phenomenon in the sky (and in some cases under the ocean) after performing a sort of meditation. And then they record it. They all agree its somehow linked to consciousness and that anyone can do it, but they differ on what it is they are seeing.
Meet the “Summoners” - ( New Window )
So outside of Greer’s controversial takes and accusations against  
mattlawson : 7/14/2021 2:42 pm : link
The CE5 protocols have been held up as something that ‘works’ and have been practiced over millennia.

My wife and I have seen orbs before in the night sky, not that we’ve called them or anything but certainly OPEN to this way of thinking
From Mick West, noted skeptic taking on UFO Twitter every day  
mattlawson : 7/15/2021 3:51 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
LOL...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/15/2021 4:00 pm : link
"It's almost the end of the day so I need to bump this thread with another bogus account!!"

- The annoyingly persistent mattlawson
Ha ha ha ha  
mattlawson : 7/15/2021 4:40 pm : link
Staying alive, staying alive!
RE: LOL...  
mattlawson : 7/15/2021 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15305755 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
"It's almost the end of the day so I need to bump this thread with another bogus account!!"

- The annoyingly persistent mattlawson


Actually that you find Mick West bogus actually helps my position
RE: Ha ha ha ha  
Big Al : 7/15/2021 4:59 pm : link
In comment 15305777 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Staying alive, staying alive!
How deep is your love?
RE: RE: Ha ha ha ha  
mattlawson : 7/15/2021 7:25 pm : link
In comment 15305792 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 15305777 mattlawson said:


Quote:


Staying alive, staying alive!

How deep is your love?


More than a woman
Fun article on Foo Fighters  
mattlawson : 7/15/2021 9:12 pm : link
WWII. From the Debrief
Link - ( New Window )
The black vault’s three month long quest for clarity  
mattlawson : 7/17/2021 9:55 am : link
On why Lue Elizondo’s records were destroyed. John is an archivist - he’s concerned that the protocols for data retention are not being followed and it’s not really about UFO’s for him. Elizondo was also involved in the KSM trials after 9/11 for example.
Link - ( New Window )
Gimbal breakdown  
widmerseyebrow : 7/18/2021 11:40 am : link
with a lot of good context re: naval aviation protocol and tech.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Gimbal breakdown  
BamaBlue : 7/18/2021 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15307502 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
with a lot of good context re: naval aviation protocol and tech. Link - ( New Window )


Great video. Multi-spectral collections with human observations confirm the presence of a 3 dimensional object. The problem for all of us is identification and origin. We have no frame of reference. Another reminder that we are not able to understand everything we sense or see…
New FAA database launched  
mattlawson : 7/19/2021 7:42 pm : link
via The Drive
Link - ( New Window )
Aguadilla UFO, Puerto Rico 2013  
mattlawson : 7/21/2021 12:04 pm : link
debunking the debunkers. Not a balloon, not a lantern, not a bird. Certainly not lite bright ;)
Link - ( New Window )
The 60 Minutes report  
mattlawson : 7/21/2021 12:07 pm : link
Worth a watch if you haven't already - 14 mins
Link - ( New Window )
Harvard stepping up to the plate  
mattlawson : 7/23/2021 2:10 pm : link
The Galileo Project research group will aim to identify the nature of UAP and ‘Oumuamua-like interstellar objects using the standard scientific method based on a transparent analysis of open scientific data to be collected using optimized instruments.



The Galileo Project follows three major avenues of research:

Obtain High-resolution, Multi-detector UAP Images, Discover their Nature:
A picture is worth a thousand words. For example, a megapixel image of the surface of a human-scale UAP object at a distance of a mile will allow to distinguish the label: “Made in Country X” from the potential alternative “Made by ETC Y” on a nearby exoplanet in our galaxy. This goal will be accomplished by searching for UAP with a network of mid-sized, high-resolution telescopes and detector arrays with suitable cameras and computer systems, distributed in select locations. The data will be open to the public and the scientific analysis will be transparent.

We anticipate extensive Artificial Intelligence/Deep Learning (AI/DL) and algorithmic approaches to differentiate atmospheric phenomena from birds, balloons, commercial or consumer drones, and from potential technological objects of terrestrial or other origin surveying our planet, such as satellites. For the purpose of high contrast imaging, each telescope will be part of a detector array of orthogonal and complementary capabilities from radar, Doppler radar and high-resolution synthetic aperture radar to high-resolution, large camera visible range and infrared band telescopes. If an ETC is discovered to be surveying Earth using UAP, then we have to assume that the ETC has mastered passive radar, optical and infrared technologies. In such a case, our systematic study of such detected UAP will be enhanced by means of high-performance, integrated and multi-wavelength detector arrays.



2. Search for and In-Depth Research on ‘Oumuamua-like Interstellar Objects:

The Galileo Project research group also will utilize existing and future astronomical surveys, such as the future Legacy Survey of Space and Time (LSST)[1] at the Vera C. Rubin Observatory (VRO), to discover and monitor the properties of interstellar visitors to the Solar system.

We will conceptualize and design, potentially in collaboration with interested space agencies or space ventures, a launch-ready space mission to image unusual interstellar objects such as ‘Oumuamua by intercepting their trajectories on their approach to the Sun or by using ground-based survey telescopes to discover interstellar meteors.



3. Search for Potential ETC Satellites:

Discovering potential 1 meter-scale or smaller satellites that may be exploring Earth, e.g., in polar orbits a few hundred km above Earth, may become feasible with VRO in 2023 and later, but if radar, optical and infrared technologies have been mastered by an ETC, then very sophisticated large telescopes on Earth might be required. We will design advanced algorithmic and AI/DL object recognition and fast filtering methods that the Galileo Project intends to deploy, initially on non-orbiting telescopes.
Link - ( New Window )
Great article with a nice UFO pic  
mattlawson : 7/24/2021 10:32 pm : link
About more Australia cases and an alleged coverup
Link - ( New Window )
UFO or light reflected from the sun?  
mattlawson : 7/25/2021 8:18 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
Something flying over what looks to be a c130?  
widmerseyebrow : 7/25/2021 12:57 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
Falcon Lake - Canada  
mattlawson : 7/26/2021 8:03 am : link
This one always was pretty WTF for me
Link - ( New Window )
So, was that one or two books they got out of that story?  
Jimmy Googs : 7/26/2021 9:03 am : link
.
Football UFOs!  
widmerseyebrow : 7/26/2021 10:26 am : link
Cowboys Steelers 1979.

I miss Summerall.
Link - ( New Window )
.  
RicFlair : 7/26/2021 11:10 am : link
“What if UFO’s are just billionaires from other planets?”


-Someone on the Internet.
I saw that  
mattlawson : 7/26/2021 12:08 pm : link
Could be!
UFO's and Nukes documentary  
mattlawson : 7/28/2021 1:07 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/28/2021 1:09 pm : link
such a useless bump.

You've cheapened the word documentary worse than you've cheapened the topic of UFO's throughout this thread that you keep bumping with absolute trash
RE: LOL..  
BamaBlue : 7/28/2021 1:18 pm : link
In comment 15315199 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
such a useless bump.

You've cheapened the word documentary worse than you've cheapened the topic of UFO's throughout this thread that you keep bumping with absolute trash


Yeah... It's time to stop beating this dead horse and talk about Sasquatch.
This is beyond  
Big Al : 7/28/2021 1:22 pm : link
obsessive. Normally I would say no one else respond but I doubt if that would stop it.
Posts 2 minutes after  
widmerseyebrow : 7/28/2021 1:25 pm : link
a 48 minute video was posted to declare that it's trash. I'm shocked.
^^^  
Bill2 : 7/28/2021 1:25 pm : link
+1
Obviously  
Bill2 : 7/28/2021 1:27 pm : link
last post was an endorsement of Big Al's approach
RE: Posts 2 minutes after  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/28/2021 1:27 pm : link
In comment 15315237 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
a 48 minute video was posted to declare that it's trash. I'm shocked.


LOL. It's so bad - it only takes 10 seconds to tell. Let me guess - it was a fine cinematic achievement?
Thread is clearly titled  
widmerseyebrow : 7/28/2021 1:29 pm : link
Where are all the non-NBA fans wandering into the NBA thread demanding that it stop? Maybe they don't bother to go in at all. Just a thought.
RE: Posts 2 minutes after  
BamaBlue : 7/28/2021 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15315237 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
a 48 minute video was posted to declare that it's trash. I'm shocked.


One can only process so many of these videos before they all begin to blend. Whether the video is 48 seconds, or 48 minutes the result is identical...
RE: This is beyond  
BamaBlue : 7/28/2021 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15315230 Big Al said:
Quote:
obsessive. Normally I would say no one else respond but I doubt if that would stop it.


I can't put my finger on the exact moment, but at some point in time, this thread got very interesting. Kind of like watching one of those pimple popper shows. As much as you are repulsed and want to look away, you just can't. So, UFO or 76 pound tumor... bring it on!
RE: RE: This is beyond  
Mike from SI : 7/28/2021 1:54 pm : link
In comment 15315259 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15315230 Big Al said:


Quote:


obsessive. Normally I would say no one else respond but I doubt if that would stop it.



I can't put my finger on the exact moment, but at some point in time, this thread got very interesting. Kind of like watching one of those pimple popper shows. As much as you are repulsed and want to look away, you just can't. So, UFO or 76 pound tumor... bring it on!


I'm here for the new UFO news. Lol
Interview with man who filmed the "Tic Tac" UFO  
widmerseyebrow : 7/28/2021 10:12 pm : link
Don't really care for Jeremy Corbell, but some interesting details re: typical protocol for inadvertently witnessing a US black project.
Cmdr. Chad Underwood - ( New Window )
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