for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Glasnow rant on injury & banned substances

Matt M. : 6/15/2021 9:13 pm
It's a shame a surging player like Glasnow is now hurt and will likely miss the rest of the season if not more. His take is interesting. He is saying he has had trouble gripping the very slick balls the last few weeks since MLB started cracking down on pitchers using foreign substances. He's not even saying they shouldn't be banned. But, he is saying MLB's reaction is a knee jerk one by forcing pitchers to change in the middle of the season. I agree with him.
The way that MLB has...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/15/2021 9:19 pm : link
fucked with the rules all over the place with no tangible difference in the way the game is being played should tell them they aren't doing it right.

Instead, they keep trying the wrong way.
what’s his excuse for being  
KDavies : 6/15/2021 9:19 pm : link
injured every other freaking year? Dude has a career high of 14 games started, but he claims he gets injured because he can’t cheat? Just comical.
RE: what’s his excuse for being  
Matt M. : 6/15/2021 9:21 pm : link
In comment 15287076 KDavies said:
Quote:
injured every other freaking year? Dude has a career high of 14 games started, but he claims he gets injured because he can’t cheat? Just comical.
In this particular case, he may have a point.
Also, why are the balls so slick all of a sudden?  
Matt M. : 6/15/2021 9:22 pm : link
Even with MLB changing the manufacturing of the balls and apparently flattening the seams, why is the leather slick? Do the umpires not famously rub them down with Mississippi mud before each game anymore?
Whaaa...  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/15/2021 9:24 pm : link
But Officer! You weren’t enforcing the speed limit last week. It’s not fair you’re giving me a ticket this week!

You chose to break the rules. Don’t whine when the cops crack down on enforcement. Don’t do the crime if you cant do the time.
RE: Whaaa...  
Matt M. : 6/15/2021 9:28 pm : link
In comment 15287082 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
But Officer! You weren’t enforcing the speed limit last week. It’s not fair you’re giving me a ticket this week!

You chose to break the rules. Don’t whine when the cops crack down on enforcement. Don’t do the crime if you cant do the time.
I really don't think that's his point. His point is this has been a known issue for 4 (or more) years and MLB did nothing. Now, as a knee jerk reaction they made rules changes during the season.

I don't think they should be using the stuff they are. But, I also don't think a rule change and a crackdown ar =e the way to go right now. Do it early in the offseason for next year.
“Just let us finish cheating and then change it”  
UConn4523 : 6/15/2021 9:35 pm : link
haha, get lost Glasnow
RE: Also, why are the balls so slick all of a sudden?  
allstarjim : 6/15/2021 10:05 pm : link
In comment 15287079 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Even with MLB changing the manufacturing of the balls and apparently flattening the seams, why is the leather slick? Do the umpires not famously rub them down with Mississippi mud before each game anymore?


Yes, I'm sure they are. This is world-class whining. Honestly, these players are hard to like. Whining about not being able to cheat. STFU and be a real ballplayer.
Rule change  
Shecky : 6/15/2021 10:17 pm : link
I hate that argument. It is NIT a rule change, but a rule enforcement.
I just  
jtfuoco : 6/15/2021 10:53 pm : link
Don't know what to think about the MLB anymore the league keep making dumb decisions and the players just are so unlikable lately.
Is there a more dysfunctional relationship in sports right now  
Blue92 : 6/15/2021 11:21 pm : link
Than MLB and the players' union?
I think some are missing the point.  
robbieballs2003 : 6/16/2021 5:16 am : link
For as long as forever, pitchers have used substances to grip the ball. Listen to the old players talk. It was always something that was happening. I heard a comment the other day that the starts low in the minors. The TEAMS are buying the stuff and having their players use it by managers and coaches. More success at a lower level means the coaches move up with the players. There was a story about George Steinbrenner calling up Pinella in the dugout to tell him to report the opposing pitcher for cheating. Pinella's response was he can't do that because his guys do the same thing.

Long story short, pitchers have always used something. The problem isn't that they used something. The problem is to the extent it has gone to. So now as pitchers have always used something for basically their whole career you are now say no you can't use anything. That is the problem. The easy solution is to work with the players union and come up with an approved substance agreed to by all players, not just pitchers. Instead they go in an immediate direction and pitchers have no time to adjust. And when I say immediate, I mean immediate based on the fact that they got caught and had to do something. This has been going on for years. The Yankees knew it about Houston years ago. Boone made a reference to it without getting specific. This is like taking gloves away from WRs in the NFL or batting gloves/pine tar for hitters. The difference is the torque that pitchers throw with could have an impact on their arms.
RE: I think some are missing the point.  
moze1021 : 6/16/2021 6:57 am : link
With just a couple tweaks....

In comment 15287239 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
For as long as forever, hitters have used substances to improve their ability to hit the ball. Listen to the old players talk. It was always something that was happening. I heard a comment the other day that the starts low in the minors. The TEAMS are buying the stuff and having their players use it by managers and coaches. More success at a lower level means the coaches move up with the players. There was a story about Babe Ruth injecting himself with an extract from sheep testicles to gain an edge.

Long story short, hitters have always used something. The problem isn't that they used something. The problem is to the extent it has gone to. So now as hitters have always used something for basically their whole career you are now say no you can't use anything. That is the problem. The easy solution is to work with the players union and come up with an approved substance agreed to by all players, not just hitters. Instead they go in an immediate direction and Barry Bonds gets a big target on his back. And when I say immediate, I mean immediate based on the fact that they leaked supposedly anonymous test results and players paid the price for retroactive postive tests. This has been going on for years. Everyone knew it. This is like taking weights away from linemen in the NFL. The difference is the wear and tear on their bodies without supplements will shorten their career.
RE: RE: I think some are missing the point.  
moze1021 : 6/16/2021 7:00 am : link
In comment 15287245 moze1021 said:
Quote:
With just a couple tweaks....

In comment 15287239 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


For as long as forever, hitters have used substances to improve their ability to hit the ball. Listen to the old players talk. It was always something that was happening. I heard a comment the other day that the starts low in the minors. The TEAMS are buying the stuff and having their players use it by managers and coaches. More success at a lower level means the coaches move up with the players. There was a story about Babe Ruth injecting himself with an extract from sheep testicles to gain an edge.

Long story short, hitters have always used something. The problem isn't that they used something. The problem is to the extent it has gone to. So now as hitters have always used something for basically their whole career you are now say no you can't use anything. That is the problem. The easy solution is to work with the players union and come up with an approved substance agreed to by all players, not just hitters. Instead they go in an immediate direction and Barry Bonds gets a big target on his back. And when I say immediate, I mean immediate based on the fact that they leaked supposedly anonymous test results and players paid the price for retroactive postive tests. This has been going on for years. Everyone knew it. This is like taking weights away from linemen in the NFL. The difference is the wear and tear on their bodies without supplements will shorten their career.




Should have expanded my point by doing this...

Players cheat. Always have, always will. The league eventually cracks down on it once the pressure mounts.

This is nothing new.

If you supported the witchhunt on PED users, then you have to support this.

If you didn't, then you can criticize this.

We need consistency on this topic because it's the same damn thing.
Uconn and I disagreed  
section125 : 6/16/2021 7:10 am : link
on another thread about midseason change of enforcement. While I certainly do not know if this did cause the elbow injury, I do agree that MLB should have done this either to start this season or next season. Allow pitchers to learn how to regrip the ball.
(BTW the mud is from the Delaware River)
It does change the game. And the reason doctoring the ball is not legal is exactly why the pitchers have a huge advantage while doing so, which we have seen. Breaking balls don't break as much, two seamers don't ride as far and four seamers don't rise as much(well drop less). Not so long ago, catchers never allowed balls scuffed up to be taken out of the game and sometimes would cut the ball on a shin guard buckle.
The mud is used to remove the waxy surface of the horse hide. I guess the umps will need to really rub the balls up now and not just dab some mud on the balls...
robbie  
KDavies : 6/16/2021 7:13 am : link
people get the point. Your post is ridiculous. It’s not that people aren’t sophisticated enough to understand. They disagree with it. Yes, players have been doctoring the baseball by using foreign substances forever. Just like somebody else has said, they have also been using steroids and similar substances forever. They have been stealing signs forever as well.

Does that mean the league has no right to crack down on steroid users? Or they have no right to crack down on pitchers using foreign substances? Or no right to crack down on teams stealing signs in a manner they don’t approve of?

Hardly. If you can’t pitch without using foreign substances, you can’t pitch. Boo hoo. The guy is injured every year. His career high is 14 starts, which is about 40% of a season.
Glasnow ain't wrong  
Jints in Carolina : 6/16/2021 7:26 am : link
.
RE: robbie  
section125 : 6/16/2021 7:41 am : link
In comment 15287251 KDavies said:
Quote:
people get the point. Your post is ridiculous. It’s not that people aren’t sophisticated enough to understand. They disagree with it. Yes, players have been doctoring the baseball by using foreign substances forever. Just like somebody else has said, they have also been using steroids and similar substances forever. They have been stealing signs forever as well.

Does that mean the league has no right to crack down on steroid users? Or they have no right to crack down on pitchers using foreign substances? Or no right to crack down on teams stealing signs in a manner they don’t approve of?

Hardly. If you can’t pitch without using foreign substances, you can’t pitch. Boo hoo. The guy is injured every year. His career high is 14 starts, which is about 40% of a season.


Actually, robbie's post was not ridiculous. What he said is correct. In the case of steroids, the league slowly worked to a complete ban, and it took several years to do it.
This was a snap decision. Most are not saying to ignore it. Many are saying the league should, or should have made the enforcement over the winter. Numbers were ridiculously down and they crapped their pants.
it was not a snap decision  
KDavies : 6/16/2021 7:51 am : link
it has been an issue for years. The league is probably getting fed up with the lack of offense/contact. If they think pitchers using foreign substances to gain an advantage is a detriment to the game, they have the right to rectify it immediately. It’s a slap on the wrist punishment. 10 games WITH pay. I don’t disagree that the league should have done something about it earlier, but the suggestion that the league should allow these pitchers additional adjustment time to adjust to not pitching with foreign substances is ridiculous. Again, if you aren’t an effective pitcher without using a foreign substance, you aren’t an effective pitcher.
and FYI  
KDavies : 6/16/2021 8:00 am : link
the new rule goes into effect June 21. The league did give time for pitchers to “adjust to not cheating.” If we are to believe that Glasgow’s injury was a result of his inability to adjust to not cheating, then oh well. He gets injured all the time. If you can’t pitch honest baseball without getting injured, you don’t belong in the league. You deserve to flame out
RE: and FYI  
Jints in Carolina : 6/16/2021 8:11 am : link
In comment 15287273 KDavies said:
Quote:
the new rule goes into effect June 21. The league did give time for pitchers to “adjust to not cheating.” If we are to believe that Glasgow’s injury was a result of his inability to adjust to not cheating, then oh well. He gets injured all the time. If you can’t pitch honest baseball without getting injured, you don’t belong in the league. You deserve to flame out


Wow a whole week to adjust.
RE: RE: and FYI  
KDavies : 6/16/2021 8:14 am : link
In comment 15287279 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
In comment 15287273 KDavies said:


Quote:


the new rule goes into effect June 21. The league did give time for pitchers to “adjust to not cheating.” If we are to believe that Glasgow’s injury was a result of his inability to adjust to not cheating, then oh well. He gets injured all the time. If you can’t pitch honest baseball without getting injured, you don’t belong in the league. You deserve to flame out



Wow a whole week to adjust.


Lol. How much time do you need to adjust to not doing something you shouldn’t have been doing to begin with?
yeah, not shedding a tear over here  
UConn4523 : 6/16/2021 8:22 am : link
guys like Cole cashed in to the tune of $300m which doctoring balls helped him achieve, in part. Cutting that off and possibly getting injured isn't going to get an ounce of sympathy from me. Did they think this would last forever? Shame on them if they did.

The mistake baseball is making is limiting the checks for the pitchers, its a rather half assed way to enforce. Go full throttle or don't. And this wait until next year to catch me cheating business is nonsense. If you don't think you can safely pitch, go on a DL stint and work it out until you have your confidence, plenty of other guys will take the mound in your absence.
Agree with KDavies  
Tony in Tampa : 6/16/2021 8:28 am : link
and for those who say the decision by MLB to do crack down mid-season was a poor one, you must not have been reading the news lately. Story after story was coming out about: the all time low league batting avgs. The record strike outs. How the game is just unwatchable. Throw in position players, equipment managers and retired players who were discussing how detailed and wide spread the cheating was and this all looked like MLB was deliberately looking the other way-like they did with steroids. The owners and front officers knew this was going on and the reporting was making them look complicit.

Do you really think MLB was going to go into the 2021 playoffs, hell the ASG, with this hanging over their heads? They had a growing scandal on their hands and something had to be done now.
Batting average  
JB_in_DC : 6/16/2021 8:37 am : link
against 4-seamers is up 11 points in June so far. I've been enjoying the change. Maybe that trends higher too if some guys were waiting until rules were actually enforced before starting to ween off the sticky stuff. This is good for the game.


Quote:
After 10 consecutive weeks when MLB average four-seam spin rate hovered between 2,306 rpms to 2,329 rpms, last week it suddenly dropped 45 rpms to a season-low 2,269. Batting average against four-seamers is up 11 points in June. Slugging against the pitch is up 18 points this month.

Link - ( New Window )
a lot of "aces" going to appear like Cinderella at midnight  
KDavies : 6/16/2021 8:54 am : link
so far, I've heard the following pitchers other than Glasnow: Cole, Bauer, Burnes, Bieber.
RE: a lot of  
KDavies : 6/16/2021 8:57 am : link
In comment 15287317 KDavies said:
Quote:
so far, I've heard the following pitchers other than Glasnow: Cole, Bauer, Burnes, Bieber.


Should say could appear like Cinderella at midnight. That reads wrong. I think a guy like Cole may see his numbers go down some, but has a track record. A guy like Bauer may regress to what he was before. The others who knows.
Trevor Bauer has a solution for MLB with foreign substance issue  
Jints in Carolina : 6/16/2021 10:42 am : link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5a3Q2Ped3Q
I don't disagree the league should be able to "crack down" or, yaknow  
wigs in nyc : 6/16/2021 10:53 am : link
enforce the rules.

But they should do it to maximize player safety. Was it really a necessity that it was done in-season (as if it hasn't been going on forever?)

I don't understand why there should be any substance at all - and look forward to batters having a chance again. Unless, of course, we see pitchers get so wild that more players start getting hit. But I'd hope this would occur over the course of the offseason so that players can spend time with their coaches adjusting their grips and making sure they're being safe.
RE: Trevor Bauer has a solution for MLB with foreign substance issue  
UConn4523 : 6/16/2021 10:55 am : link
In comment 15287443 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5a3Q2Ped3Q


I love Bauer, and he's spot on. MLB didn't think this through well. I align with their intentions, horrible execution.
RE: RE: Trevor Bauer has a solution for MLB with foreign substance issue  
Jints in Carolina : 6/16/2021 11:24 am : link
In comment 15287477 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15287443 Jints in Carolina said:


Quote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5a3Q2Ped3Q



I love Bauer, and he's spot on. MLB didn't think this through well. I align with their intentions, horrible execution.


agreed
In  
mitch300 : 6/16/2021 11:40 am : link
Japan the ball comes with a tackyness already on it . MLB needs to do something like this.
tough for me to buy the case at all  
bigbluehoya : 6/16/2021 11:47 am : link
that the change had anything to do with the injury, considering that Glasnow has been a china doll for his entire career.

Having said that, MLB handled this, like all things, in about the worst possible manner.

That can be true and he can still be full of shit.
RE: In  
moze1021 : 6/16/2021 11:56 am : link
In comment 15287551 mitch300 said:
Quote:
Japan the ball comes with a tackyness already on it . MLB needs to do something like this.


The claim is that the Delaware river mud is supposed to do that..

One reason this whole thing pisses me off is I wish I had a better grip as a 17 year old throwing high 80s in HS... then I wouldn't have hit so many kids.. lol.

Eric Sim (King of Juco)  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/16/2021 12:41 pm : link
is a former minor leaguer with a youtube channel. Here's a video of him testing out various substances that pitchers use and showing how they affect spin rates.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU8lSmYnzN8 - ( New Window )
The MLB put it out there before the season started  
Dr. D : 6/16/2021 1:03 pm : link
that they were going to crack down on this. I read about it. I remember after Bauer signed with LA and the Mets signed Walker, that I thought it would be cool if Bauer had to cut it out and that Walker ended up having a comparable or even better season than Bauer (at a fraction of the $). That could be happening.
RE: it was not a snap decision  
Eman11 : 6/16/2021 4:57 pm : link
In comment 15287268 KDavies said:
Quote:
it has been an issue for years. The league is probably getting fed up with the lack of offense/contact. If they think pitchers using foreign substances to gain an advantage is a detriment to the game, they have the right to rectify it immediately. It’s a slap on the wrist punishment. 10 games WITH pay. I don’t disagree that the league should have done something about it earlier, but the suggestion that the league should allow these pitchers additional adjustment time to adjust to not pitching with foreign substances is ridiculous. Again, if you aren’t an effective pitcher without using a foreign substance, you aren’t an effective pitcher.


It was a snap decision. According to Glasgow and some others, players were told this year would be status quo as far as any changes would go. That included the ghost runner on 2nd starting extra innings and 7 inning double headers, as well as no changes to what pitchers use for a better grip.

MLB made it known they weren’t happy with some of the grip enhancers but would deal with it in the coming off season.

I don’t know what effect this will have as far as injuries go, and listening to Glasgow it seems possible going without his sunscreen/rosin combo made him grip the ball tighter and could very well have caused a strain on his arm.

I do know early on pitchers were complaining about the seams on the balls this year and how they’re wound so tight they almost can’t even feel them. Seems to me no matter how well they’re rubbed up pre game by umps, if a pitcher can’t feel the seems, he needs something to get a good grip. I know if I’m a hitter, I’m more concerned with getting beaned by a pitch getting away than spin rate.
Back to the Corner