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nice will hernandez article

Hilary : 6/16/2021 7:00 am
Hope the training pays off on the field.
will hernandez - ( New Window )
Nice find.  
section125 : 6/16/2021 7:20 am : link
I hope this works out. He should have been a monster out there. He did look a tad slow the past couple years. Perhaps the head got in the way. A touch more agility should help.
Good read on Hernandez  
NYGgolfer : 6/16/2021 7:27 am : link
Fairly detailed commentary in there that is worth reading, especially for those that think there are no issues with Hernandez other than related to his bout with Covid in second half of 2020.

While it is a good sign that Hernandez is seeking out and trying to further develop his game, some red flags that the same weaknesses keep coming up that he needs to be better at. Further, it appears as if he recently let things go too far became overweight, and that HAD to be addressed as part of this refit.

Some optimism here, but only some.
I am hoping the stability of the OL coach  
johnnyb : 6/16/2021 7:30 am : link
can help not just Hernandez but the entire OL. Hal Hunter wasn’t really much help, and the turmoil with Colombo didn’t help either. As mentioned in the article, Sale and his focus on fundamentals should help the entire line.
RE: I am hoping the stability of the OL coach  
section125 : 6/16/2021 7:47 am : link
In comment 15287255 johnnyb said:
Quote:
can help not just Hernandez but the entire OL. Hal Hunter wasn’t really much help, and the turmoil with Colombo didn’t help either. As mentioned in the article, Sale and his focus on fundamentals should help the entire line.


This. Judge is hiring teachers. These guys have ability, they need refinement.
What a huge bonus  
JFIB : 6/16/2021 7:56 am : link
To the O-line it would be if Hernandez reached an above average level. From the sounds of the article we have every reason to believe we will see an improved version of Will Hernandez this season. If Peart becomes a truly reliable RT than we may really have what we need for the Offense to more than carry it's own weight.
I don’t know how long Manyweather has been training o-linemen in the  
Ivan15 : 6/16/2021 7:58 am : link
Offseason. It seems like several “problem” players on the Giants have been to his training only to be cut loose the next year. Maybe he should call his business “Last Chance”.
RE: RE: I am hoping the stability of the OL coach  
christian : 6/16/2021 8:10 am : link
In comment 15287264 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15287255 johnnyb said:


Quote:


can help not just Hernandez but the entire OL. Hal Hunter wasn’t really much help, and the turmoil with Colombo didn’t help either. As mentioned in the article, Sale and his focus on fundamentals should help the entire line.



This. Judge is hiring teachers. These guys have ability, they need refinement.


I don’t disagree with the need for refinement, but you can probably find a half dozen articles praising this virtue in Colombo from last offseason.
I’m not really worried about Hernandez  
BillT : 6/16/2021 8:11 am : link
I think he’ll be good enough. He’s shown that before. This info gives me confidence he can be that again. Not sure about the long term but I don’t think he’s the most immediate concern on the OL. Who we really don’t know anything about are Lemieux and Peart. I trust the coaches so I think we’ll be ok but that’s a lot of unknown on the OL.
RE: I don’t know how long Manyweather has been training o-linemen in the  
BillT : 6/16/2021 8:12 am : link
In comment 15287272 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Offseason. It seems like several “problem” players on the Giants have been to his training only to be cut loose the next year. Maybe he should call his business “Last Chance”.

I wasn’t aware of this. Who has been to his camp from the Giants.
He has been playing LG  
Lines of Scrimmage : 6/16/2021 8:18 am : link
at least for the last 7 years. The fact they are moving him to RG raises some flags. I think it will be a open competition for that spot.

I also think it shows that the Giants like Lemieux quite a bit as WH was asked to compete elsewhere on the line.
It is fair to say all but RG should play better  
George from PA : 6/16/2021 8:18 am : link
Thomas, Gates have a full year and now a complete off season....at their position

Peart and Lemieux played last year and now has a full off season....at their position

All four should play better.

Hernandez replacing Zeitler is only position ....that might take a step back....if Hernandez can step up....it would be a hugh boost to the entire OL.
RE: It is fair to say all but RG should play better  
NYGgolfer : 6/16/2021 8:31 am : link
In comment 15287289 George from PA said:
Quote:
Thomas, Gates have a full year and now a complete off season....at their position

Peart and Lemieux played last year and now has a full off season....at their position

All four should play better.

Hernandez replacing Zeitler is only position ....that might take a step back....if Hernandez can step up....it would be a hugh boost to the entire OL.


This is fair as building up more and more continuity on the OL is a reasonable factor in supporting optimism for better play.

The question is how much better will they play as individuals and as a unit. That is where I think this Offense will still see problems in meeting their goals in 2021 as the talent level on the OL is likely still too low.
Hope springs eternal with this guy  
M.S. : 6/16/2021 8:53 am : link

But he's not that good.

RE: RE: I don’t know how long Manyweather has been training o-linemen in the  
Ivan15 : 6/16/2021 9:02 am : link
In comment 15287283 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15287272 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


Offseason. It seems like several “problem” players on the Giants have been to his training only to be cut loose the next year. Maybe he should call his business “Last Chance”.


I wasn’t aware of this. Who has been to his camp from the Giants.

Jerry, Fluker and Schwartz were the guys I was thinking of but at least one of them may have worked with LeCharles Bentley
Maybe I misinterpreted what Judge has been saying.  
Marty in Albany : 6/16/2021 9:18 am : link
My understanding is that the Giants have not drafted O-linemen BECAUSE last season was so unusual that they could NOT properly evaluate the full capabilities of their current players. The Giants had no confidence that anyone they drafted would be better than what they already had. Replacing them now would be like "throwing the baby out with the bath-water." [my simile, not Judge's]

It is pretty much agreed that Hernandez has got talent (as opposed to just being strong and athletic). If he has talent, then the flaws in his technique can be fixed and he can learn to play the right side. IMHO, the significant factor is that Hernandez has "want to."
I've always thought Hernandez would be better on the right. He's a  
Ira : 6/16/2021 9:46 am : link
power player, but not as quick as some. Losing weight should help with that.
Unfortunately the OL has become a blackhole area  
NYGgolfer : 6/16/2021 10:01 am : link
with respect to the NY Giants over the past decade. Way too may failures with respect to evaluating both free agents and draft picks, and developing them to reach even reliable status. And its very easy to see how these failures have sunk many seasons and are probably the top reason for the team's poor won-loss record over this same time frame.

While we would all like to think HC Judge is a rising star within the franchise and certainly is not connected to those past failures, it is quite possible that even he doesn't know what to do (yet) to improve this situation. Last year he was behind the eight-ball with a bunch of raw OL players in a Covid backdrop, but there were still too many bumps in the road with respect to this unit. Rotating OL players, shouting matches and mid-season firings with assistants and an inability to mitigate the high pass pressure rates on his QBs reflect the struggles.

Adding very little to this OL group in the past offseason was surprising to say the least. While there were plenty of positions to address with respect to free agent dollars and draft picks, this unit took a clear back seat.

And begs the question "what are they thinking about here with the OL?"
Nice find and thanks for sharing.  
Snacks : 6/16/2021 10:06 am : link
If he can improve and be counted on to man the RG spot it would be huge. We'd have 5 young guys all capable of getting the job done. Just need them to continue to gel and improve.

I"m hoping for a good 5 year stretch where our OL is set and maybe reach a point where they aren't always looked at as the weak link.

When we were running the ball well last year I couldn't help but try to imagine what a healthy Barkley would be doing behind these guys.

Can the stars please align this year? Good OL play and a healthy Barkley please.
Don't put it all on the O-line. If you don't have any WR threats  
Marty in Albany : 6/16/2021 11:22 am : link
the defense can put extra men on the D-line and blitz without fear. Even good offensive lines can't stand up to that kind of pressure on every play.

If we get Barkley back and if Goliday and Toney improve our WR corps, then the O-line will be more effective than last season even if they have not improved one bit from last season.
Agree that the added weapons will help the OL  
Dr. D : 6/16/2021 11:47 am : link
We all saw the effect of Plaxico when he shot himself. Without him drawing attention, the entire O, including the OL took a step back.

I saw a quote from Justin Pugh on the positive impact Hopkins had on the AZ OL. Pugh said with the addition of Hopkins, the OL didn't have to hold their blocks nearly as long (he said they only had to "for about a second").

He got some grief for saying that and had to take it back to some extent (some plays are longer developing), but it makes sense that when you have receivers who draw attention and get open quick, it makes the OL, QB and RB jobs easier.
RE: I am hoping the stability of the OL coach  
sb from NYT Forum : 6/16/2021 1:02 pm : link
In comment 15287255 johnnyb said:
Quote:
can help not just Hernandez but the entire OL. Hal Hunter wasn’t really much help, and the turmoil with Colombo didn’t help either. As mentioned in the article, Sale and his focus on fundamentals should help the entire line.


Hal fucking Hunter... smh
RE: RE: RE: I don’t know how long Manyweather has been training o-linemen in the  
ColHowPepper : 6/16/2021 2:21 pm : link
In comment 15287327 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15287283 BillT said:
Quote: In comment 15287272 Ivan15 said:
Quote: Offseason. It seems like several “problem” players on the Giants have been to his training only to be cut loose the next year. Maybe he should call his business “Last Chance”. ///////

I wasn’t aware of this. Who has been to his camp from the Giants.////////

Jerry, Fluker and Schwartz were the guys I was thinking of but at least one of them may have worked with LeCharles Bentley
Ivan, I think you have it right the second time, Bentley's camp, Jerry and Westburg for sure, and I don't recall Fluker, certainly not Schwartz. I think your Manyweather reference is not right.
Awesome read  
Johnny5 : 6/16/2021 5:22 pm : link
I am so pulling for him to jump that hump (as we all are... lol). You can see he has the potential to be better. Such a great point on let the work be the work and use the recovery. That is a huge point that some tireless workers do not heed. And I'm glad we are not just writing these players off, but actually trying to make them better as individual pros.
RE: Unfortunately the OL has become a blackhole area  
Brown_Hornet : 6/16/2021 10:47 pm : link
In comment 15287381 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
with respect to the NY Giants over the past decade. Way too may failures with respect to evaluating both free agents and draft picks, and developing them to reach even reliable status. And its very easy to see how these failures have sunk many seasons and are probably the top reason for the team's poor won-loss record over this same time frame.

While we would all like to think HC Judge is a rising star within the franchise and certainly is not connected to those past failures, it is quite possible that even he doesn't know what to do (yet) to improve this situation. Last year he was behind the eight-ball with a bunch of raw OL players in a Covid backdrop, but there were still too many bumps in the road with respect to this unit. Rotating OL players, shouting matches and mid-season firings with assistants and an inability to mitigate the high pass pressure rates on his QBs reflect the struggles.

Adding very little to this OL group in the past offseason was surprising to say the least. While there were plenty of positions to address with respect to free agent dollars and draft picks, this unit took a clear back seat.

And begs the question "what are they thinking about here with the OL?"
This is such an uninformed an ignorant post I'm not quite sure where to start.

Certainly frustrated fans deserve their space and their ability to Express their emotions.
It was always my assumption that this forum was a little bit above emotional outbursts like this.

Damning an entire coaching staff for things that they had nothing to do with Damning and entire coaching staff for things that they had nothing to do with is simplistic And quite honestly reeks of conspiracyhis.
How is your Q.?

I would suggest you refrain from posting before you continue to embarrass yourself anymore.
Apologies...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/16/2021 10:48 pm : link
... For my talk to text miscues.
RE: Apologies...  
NYGgolfer : 6/17/2021 8:28 am : link
In comment 15288238 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
... For my miscues.


Glad you apologized. Your post was rude and unnecessary to say the least. If you have a question or want to debate something I wrote then go right ahead and lets discuss the topics.

But that mess of comments you posted above is no better than the inappropriate political and social crap you have tossed around here as of late. And if anybody needs to stop posting altogether, it is you. Good day.
Manyweather  
bc4life : 6/17/2021 8:40 am : link
seems to have taken a thoughtful and methodical approach to Will's development.

Some important points to keep in mind re: last year's regression: injuries, turmoil at position coach, his weight, and the importance of recovery.
RE: Manyweather  
Johnny5 : 6/17/2021 10:48 am : link
In comment 15288340 bc4life said:
Quote:
seems to have taken a thoughtful and methodical approach to Will's development.

Some important points to keep in mind re: last year's regression: injuries, turmoil at position coach, his weight, and the importance of recovery.

For sure, and lack of confidence
RE: Agree that the added weapons will help the OL  
fredgbrown : 6/17/2021 3:26 pm : link
In comment 15287560 Dr. D said:
Quote:
We all saw the effect of Plaxico when he shot himself. Without him drawing attention, the entire O, including the OL took a step back.

I saw a quote from Justin Pugh on the positive impact Hopkins had on the AZ OL. Pugh said with the addition of Hopkins, the OL didn't have to hold their blocks nearly as long (he said they only had to "for about a second").

He got some grief for saying that and had to take it back to some extent (some plays are longer developing), but it makes sense that when you have receivers who draw attention and get open quick, it makes the OL, QB and RB jobs easier.

But I also remember during the Panthers game for homefield there were holes for Ward that the Fridge Perry could run though.
RE: RE: Apologies...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/18/2021 8:51 am : link
In comment 15288335 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
In comment 15288238 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


... For my miscues.



Glad you apologized. Your post was rude and unnecessary to say the least. If you have a question or want to debate something I wrote then go right ahead and lets discuss the topics.

But that mess of comments you posted above is no better than the inappropriate political and social crap you have tossed around here as of late. And if anybody needs to stop posting altogether, it is you. Good day.


Or I guess Brown Hornet can just return as a dupe handle, right? Always funny to see people just signing up for a board who have known the handles here for years and then feign ignorance when called out. What exactly has BH posted that has been inappropriate, and what level does it reach that it trumps creating a duplicate handle to participate on this board?

The only person I want to hear say "Good Day" is Willie Wonka. And even then, he wasn't fucking sincere about it either.
Wow, this is a gem  
5BowlsSoon : 6/18/2021 9:52 am : link
Threads like this is why I pop in here every day. Thanks Hilary for finding and posting this. If this is not pinned, it should be. I am now more hopeful then ever regarding our OL this coming year.
RE: RE: RE: Apologies...  
NYGgolfer : 6/18/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15288929 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15288335 NYGgolfer said:


Quote:


In comment 15288238 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


... For my miscues.



Glad you apologized. Your post was rude and unnecessary to say the least. If you have a question or want to debate something I wrote then go right ahead and lets discuss the topics.

But that mess of comments you posted above is no better than the inappropriate political and social crap you have tossed around here as of late. And if anybody needs to stop posting altogether, it is you. Good day.



Or I guess Brown Hornet can just return as a dupe handle, right? Always funny to see people just signing up for a board who have known the handles here for years and then feign ignorance when called out. What exactly has BH posted that has been inappropriate, and what level does it reach that it trumps creating a duplicate handle to participate on this board?

The only person I want to hear say "Good Day" is Willie Wonka. And even then, he wasn't fucking sincere about it either.


No need for your drama or accusations. My post above on the Giants OL concerns was not unfair nor confrontational, yet received an odd backlash of insults instead of any reasonable debate.

You obviously have no interest in discussing any football topic on this thread either, but jump in just to make an unnecessary call out and show some silly moral superiority? And do your own searching on the political nonsense that ruins football discussion nor is allowed if it matters so much to you. Good day.
RE: Unfortunately the OL has become a blackhole area  
5BowlsSoon : 6/18/2021 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15287381 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
with respect to the NY Giants over the past decade. Way too may failures with respect to evaluating both free agents and draft picks, and developing them to reach even reliable status. And its very easy to see how these failures have sunk many seasons and are probably the top reason for the team's poor won-loss record over this same time frame.

While we would all like to think HC Judge is a rising star within the franchise and certainly is not connected to those past failures, it is quite possible that even he doesn't know what to do (yet) to improve this situation. Last year he was behind the eight-ball with a bunch of raw OL players in a Covid backdrop, but there were still too many bumps in the road with respect to this unit. Rotating OL players, shouting matches and mid-season firings with assistants and an inability to mitigate the high pass pressure rates on his QBs reflect the struggles.

Adding very little to this OL group in the past offseason was surprising to say the least. While there were plenty of positions to address with respect to free agent dollars and draft picks, this unit took a clear back seat.

And begs the question "what are they thinking about here with the OL?"


Just curious, what OL player would you have drafted over the Giant player taken. If you don’t mind, name the player you would have drafted, the player being replaced, and the draft # this would have taken place.

If you have the time, what OL player would you have tried to sign and what player would you have been okay to not sign so we could have used the money that went to them instead.

Thanks,
5B
5BowlsSoon  
NYGgolfer : 6/18/2021 12:38 pm : link
The roster construction is going to always be about choices. And as mentioned the Giants had plenty of areas they tried to address or upgrade this past offseason, hopefully with good success particularly around the WR, CB and Edge positions.

But it should not be any surprise that one of the worst, albeit young, performing units on the team (and the league) is the NY Giant OL unit. And their investment in that unit this past offseason was very low. Further, the risk they seem to be taking on relative to the Offensive Guard position has only been highlighted.

Not suggesting they signed or drafted bad non-OL players during this past offseason. Only that there were OL choices available in free agency and 20+ Offensive Lineman selected by teams on Day 1 & 2 not named the NY Giants. And I found that very surprising based on the recent trends we have seen with this positional unit that not one new upgrade was warranted.

After a fairly heavy OL draft in 2020, the decision makers decided to wait and see this year on that investment. Roster construction is about choices, but hopefully they make it through a very important season without regretting that one.
RE: RE: Unfortunately the OL has become a blackhole area  
Dr. D : 6/18/2021 12:40 pm : link
Quote:
In comment 15287381 NYGgolfer said:



And begs the question "what are they thinking about here with the OL?"


Seems to me, what they're thinking is that they've invested quite a lot into the OL in the last 2-3 years (a high 1st, a high 2nd, a high 3rd, a high 5th) and they may have found a gem as an UDFA (remember a lot of BBIers thought we were screwed bc we didn't draft a C in '20. Turned out JJ, DG, et al., knew better).

Due to a long list of extenuating circumstances, the young OL had lot of things going against them last year. And that with a normal offseason, good coaching/teaching (a major priority for JJ) and playing experience, the young OL will develop and grow into a decent unit.

Why use draft and FA assets to bring in more OL when you haven't done all you can to develop the ones you already have?
NYGolfer  
Johnny5 : 6/18/2021 12:56 pm : link
I get the trepidation, but the whole point of the article and OP was about our former 2nd round draft pick at Guard. Also they addressed the area Judge thought the biggest problem, the OL coaching. They also added skill players so blocks on certain plays don't need to be sustained as long, and defenses can't pin their ears back as much. Incremental improvement by Jones also helps, I have some optimism there. Every little incremental step forward helps.

The staff is content with Gates, Thomas, and Lemieux. Clearly the like what they saw from Peart (I sure did before he got COVID). They also clearly feel Hernandez is useful at RG, and they have a couple of vets as plan B. I am bullish on Hernandez being serviceable and based on the article I see no reason not to be optimistic that there is more there with good coaching and renewed confidence.
it comes down to whether or not  
Dr. D : 6/18/2021 1:12 pm : link
you trust JJ and his coaching staff as well as the decision makers who brought in the players.

A lot of skeptics like to keep talking about the past, ie., the OL has sucked for 10 years. That's true, but most of those years are irrelevant in '21.

It's also true a lot of draft picks don't pan out. But let's compare past picks with the current group.

Eric Flowers was never the prospect that Andrew Thomas was. IIRC, prior to the combine, Thomas was considered the most pro ready LT coming out, i.e, based on game performance (it was the measurables that made some others rise predraft).

Furthermore, there were multiple reports that Flowers wasn't very coachable. Thomas was not only a much better prospect (based on college performance), but by all accounts, he's very coachable.

As much credit as I give to Coach Coughlin for leading us to 2 SBs, I think JJ is emphasizing teaching more (I also don't think JJ will let loyalty to a coach keep him from letting go an underperformer). I also trust JJ and DG more for OL talent evaluation vs. TC and Reese.

And lastly, the added weapons will make everyone's jobs easier, including the OL.
RE: it comes down to whether or not  
montanagiant : 6/18/2021 1:22 pm : link
In comment 15289091 Dr. D said:
Quote:
you trust JJ and his coaching staff as well as the decision makers who brought in the players.

A lot of skeptics like to keep talking about the past, ie., the OL has sucked for 10 years. That's true, but most of those years are irrelevant in '21.

It's also true a lot of draft picks don't pan out. But let's compare past picks with the current group.

Eric Flowers was never the prospect that Andrew Thomas was. IIRC, prior to the combine, Thomas was considered the most pro ready LT coming out, i.e, based on game performance (it was the measurables that made some others rise predraft).

Furthermore, there were multiple reports that Flowers wasn't very coachable. Thomas was not only a much better prospect (based on college performance), but by all accounts, he's very coachable.

As much credit as I give to Coach Coughlin for leading us to 2 SBs, I think JJ is emphasizing teaching more (I also don't think JJ will let loyalty to a coach keep him from letting go an underperformer). I also trust JJ and DG more for OL talent evaluation vs. TC and Reese.

And lastly, the added weapons will make everyone's jobs easier, including the OL.

Yeah, given JJ's history of who he worked for coming up the ranks I also believe he understands that the team as a whole is more important than loyalty to an individual. We saw it somewhat last year when Columbo got booted for not adhering to what JJ wanted. He may not have been close to Columbo but his OC was and that was a swift firing.
RE: it comes down to whether or not  
NYGgolfer : 6/18/2021 2:17 pm : link
In comment 15289091 Dr. D said:
Quote:
you trust JJ and his coaching staff as well as the decision makers who brought in the players.



As fans, trust really has little to do with it.

And when it comes to the OL, the three groups above all have their hands in the cookie jar on being accountable in some fashion for the last couple seasons of poor OL performance. While I don't think it warrants full-blown optimism nor pessimism, I think its fair to be quite skeptical of the "wait-and-see" approach taken during this past offseason for this unit and really hope the new OL coach is a better developer of players than all of his predecessors.
RE: NYGolfer  
NYGgolfer : 6/18/2021 2:27 pm : link
In comment 15289074 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
I get the trepidation, but the whole point of the article and OP was about our former 2nd round draft pick at Guard. Also they addressed the area Judge thought the biggest problem, the OL coaching. They also added skill players so blocks on certain plays don't need to be sustained as long, and defenses can't pin their ears back as much. Incremental improvement by Jones also helps, I have some optimism there. Every little incremental step forward helps.

The staff is content with Gates, Thomas, and Lemieux. Clearly the like what they saw from Peart (I sure did before he got COVID). They also clearly feel Hernandez is useful at RG, and they have a couple of vets as plan B. I am bullish on Hernandez being serviceable and based on the article I see no reason not to be optimistic that there is more there with good coaching and renewed confidence.


Would couch that a bit different. Judge addressed the one area he could basically under his complete responsibility, the OL coaching.

How content Judge is with the players on the OL unit remains to be seen. He may have been outnumbered on some new investment views in that area, or felt other areas were more dire, or he may have simply wanted to address this unit one step at a time instead of too many moving parts (meaning coaching first and then replacement players next). Again, not easy to tell which is why I expressed that somewhat open-ended question.
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