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ESPN: Jackson's presence forces positive change

Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/17/2021 10:44 am
Quote:
But the signing of cornerback Adoree' Jackson this offseason changes everything.

"In our system, we want to be able to play man [coverage], when it comes to third down, red [zone] area, two-minute [defense]," Graham said. "In this league, you're going to have to play some version of man at some point."

The Giants didn't feel comfortable enough last season to play man-to-man coverage often or when it counted most. Only the Carolina Panthers played less man coverage in 2020. The Giants played man on 33.1% of opponents' dropbacks last year, per ESPN Stats & Information.

In comparison, Graham's defense in Miami the previous season played man coverage on 60.8% of opponents' dropbacks. During Judge's time in New England, the Patriots played the second most man coverage on 62.2% of the passing downs.

...

An executive whose team faced the Giants last season said the team's game plan was simple against New York: attack whoever was playing CB2. Ballentine, Lewis, Isaac Yiadom, Madre Harper, Julian Love; it didn't matter.

"That was every team's plan against them," the executive said.

Adoree' Jackson's presence forces positive change in New York Giants' defense - ( New Window )
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The defense has a good chance  
Lines of Scrimmage : 6/17/2021 1:24 pm : link
to move in the upper tier. I expect the offense will be better which will force teams to have to be more aggressive.

More pressure with a improved secondary is gonna make it tough on QB's imo.

The D was solid last year  
ChicagoMarty : 6/17/2021 1:32 pm : link
It will be even better this year with the infusion of more talent in the Secondary.

Should the O improve even a little bit that will make our D even better.

All the O has to do besides reducing turnovers is to increase first down conversions and red zone conversions.

Improvement in TOP will greatly benefit the D as they will be a bit more rested.

Converting some red zone field goals into Touchdowns will both energize the D and force the opposing O to take more risk which given the improved talent level in the D might mean more turnovers for us

Easier said than done for sure. But the talent level has improved on both sides of the ball. So should our compete level
Jackson was a tremendous get.  
mittenedman : 6/17/2021 1:37 pm : link
I'm not going to pretend to know what happened in TEN, but when this guy's head is on straight, he's one of the better CBs in the league.

What I love about it the most is his fit with Bradberry. They now have a top notch physical CB and a top notch speed CB.

It also sounds like the Giants are using Jackson in the slot, too. Still can't believe he was available.
Another reason to improve run defense on the edges  
JonC : 6/17/2021 1:41 pm : link
is to protect Bradberry and Jackson from too much tackling contact coming up in force. Neither is a terrific, sturdy tackler so it's wise to boost the resistance in front of them to reduce the load and chance for injury.
What Graham had to work with last year ....  
Manny in CA : 6/17/2021 1:48 pm : link

Was very much what Spags had when he first came here - good players but just not quite enough.

This year will be good, by next he should have enough to be a Super Bowl contender, (on his side of the ball).
Well said ...  
Manny in CA : 6/17/2021 1:49 pm : link
JonC.
Jackson being here  
UConn4523 : 6/17/2021 2:02 pm : link
also allows us to deploy Robinson creatively, assuming he’s the goods. That’s a huge leg up on what we had to work with last year.
One of the biggest matchups is handling  
Lines of Scrimmage : 6/17/2021 2:10 pm : link
the Cowboys in the pass game. We needed that 2nd corner especially if Dak and that OL return close to form.

5-1 or even 6-0 in the division is doable with this team.
Really excited for the defense!  
trueblueinpw : 6/17/2021 2:38 pm : link
This backfield is legit stacked with talent. Graham seems like the real deal, as does the Judge. We’re getting some key pieces back. So, really excited about the defense this year. I grew up with the Giants calling card being great defense. Defense travels. Defense wins championships. Or at least it did. I know the league has changed a lot and it’s a quarterback league where offense wins now. But even with all that, I’m excited for the defense. Nothing better than shutting down a high flying offense. I love watching a defensive slobberknocker. Winning 3 to nothing? I’m fine with that. Let’s go defense! LFG Big Blue!
...  
christian : 6/17/2021 3:17 pm : link
Ojulari's health is the biggest question with the edge rush.

If the Giants assessment is true, he's got the talent and pedigree to be a dominant pure edge rusher.

If you rewind to the middle of March and predict the Giants pick Ojulari at number 11, I don't believe you'd get many batted lashes. If he's healthy he's the edge rusher that's been missing.
RE: Another reason to improve run defense on the edges  
bw in dc : 6/17/2021 3:44 pm : link
In comment 15288545 JonC said:
Quote:
is to protect Bradberry and Jackson from too much tackling contact coming up in force. Neither is a terrific, sturdy tackler so it's wise to boost the resistance in front of them to reduce the load and chance for injury.


Well, that would be a departure from what Graham learned under Belichick because BB demands that his corners tackle. That's always been a staple.
RE: ...  
SGMen : 6/17/2021 4:34 pm : link
In comment 15288611 christian said:
Quote:
Ojulari's health is the biggest question with the edge rush.

If the Giants assessment is true, he's got the talent and pedigree to be a dominant pure edge rusher.

If you rewind to the middle of March and predict the Giants pick Ojulari at number 11, I don't believe you'd get many batted lashes. If he's healthy he's the edge rusher that's been missing.
IF he is healthy, always the big question mark. He clearly fell in the draft due to health concerns - no question there.
But if he enters camp healthy and gets thru the season healthy we should have a talented player to build on. A lot of 2nd round guys are in the 2nd round due to injury issues and occasionally you get lucky. Lets pray he is the goods and provides the speed edge rush we sorely lack.
RE: RE: Another reason to improve run defense on the edges  
Toth029 : 6/17/2021 7:28 pm : link
In comment 15288625 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15288545 JonC said:


Quote:


is to protect Bradberry and Jackson from too much tackling contact coming up in force. Neither is a terrific, sturdy tackler so it's wise to boost the resistance in front of them to reduce the load and chance for injury.



Well, that would be a departure from what Graham learned under Belichick because BB demands that his corners tackle. That's always been a staple.


That's why he drafted and played Asante Samuel so much. ;-)
RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
Red Right Hand : 6/17/2021 7:30 pm : link
In comment 15288420 bw in dc said:
Quote:
It improved and was top ten in points allowed. Sure, more flexibility and variation won’t hurt but let’s keep our eye on the ball.

The bigger, massive problem is the offense.

What does that have to do with this thread?Plus, German.
RE: RE: Another reason to improve run defense on the edges  
JonC : 6/17/2021 7:58 pm : link
In comment 15288625 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15288545 JonC said:


Quote:


is to protect Bradberry and Jackson from too much tackling contact coming up in force. Neither is a terrific, sturdy tackler so it's wise to boost the resistance in front of them to reduce the load and chance for injury.



Well, that would be a departure from what Graham learned under Belichick because BB demands that his corners tackle. That's always been a staple.


Corners always have to tackle, but some are Mark Collins and many are not.
RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
Dr. D : 6/17/2021 8:04 pm : link
In comment 15288741 Red Right Hand said:
Quote:
In comment 15288420 bw in dc said:


Quote:


It improved and was top ten in points allowed. Sure, more flexibility and variation won’t hurt but let’s keep our eye on the ball.

The bigger, massive problem is the offense.


What does that have to do with this thread?Plus, German.

Don't you understand? We have to keep our eye on the ball!!

We have to talk about how the OFFENSE is gonna SUCK this year! Because it SUCKED last year and couldn't possibly be better this year!

If we don't keep our eye on the ball, we'll be lettin the team down, or somethin'. No talking about the defense!

Get it?
RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
Angel Eyes : 6/17/2021 8:13 pm : link
In comment 15288758 Dr. D said:
Quote:
In comment 15288741 Red Right Hand said:


Quote:


In comment 15288420 bw in dc said:


Quote:


It improved and was top ten in points allowed. Sure, more flexibility and variation won’t hurt but let’s keep our eye on the ball.

The bigger, massive problem is the offense.


What does that have to do with this thread?Plus, German.


Don't you understand? We have to keep our eye on the ball!!

We have to talk about how the OFFENSE is gonna SUCK this year! Because it SUCKED last year and couldn't possibly be better this year!

If we don't keep our eye on the ball, we'll be lettin the team down, or somethin'. No talking about the defense!

Get it?

The defense did let us down a couple times; the first Dallas game and the Baltimore game were embarrassing.
RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
Jay on the Island : 6/17/2021 10:50 pm : link
In comment 15288484 bw in dc said:
Quote:

Because the defense was a playoff defense last year - for sure. We didn't lose many games because of Graham's schemes and the overall talent. Unfortunately, the offense couldn't hold up it's end of the bargain.

Maybe Jackson solves a problem. But that money, IMV, could have been much better spend to beef up a bigger question mark - the OL.

You’re very wrong. The defense was solid but the second CB spot literally cost the Giants at least two wins last season. Go back and re-watch the first Eagles and Cowboys game. Late in the 4th quarter of both games the QB threw a deep Hail Mary type of pass that was completed versus Ryan Lewis, one of which Lewis fell down. Both plays would have been easily prevented by Jackson or Aaron Robinson. Either of those plays would have resulted in a win and a playoff spot.

Patrick Graham did a masterful job last season but it’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to do it again without an infusion of talent on defense. Losing Tomlinson was disappointing but Danny Shelton will be a suitable replacement. The defense should be even better this season with the additions of Ifeadi Odenigbo, Azeez Ojulari, Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Elerson Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Reggie Ragland.

The defense still needs an established pass rusher but hopefully a few of these guys step up and becomes a consistent pass rusher. I still expect the Giants to add another pass rusher early in next years draft but I am really excited about Ojulari and Elerson Smith. Even if both players develop as hoped you can never have too many pass rushers. Of all the offseason additions I think that Odenigbo will earn the most playing time. He is probably the best OLB at setting the edge versus the run.
RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
Bergen346 : 6/17/2021 10:59 pm : link
In comment 15288484 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15288430 Bergen346 said:


Quote:


In comment 15288420 bw in dc said:


Quote:


It improved and was top ten in points allowed. Sure, more flexibility and variation won’t hurt but let’s keep our eye on the ball.

The bigger, massive problem is the offense.



"massive problem" ... a bit dramatic? We improved on the offensive side of the ball this offseason. We should absolutely be better this season. I have high expectations.

And, ya know, an even better defense means our offense spends more time on the field. More weapons + more TOP will result in more points.



I get the expectations based on the investments to the offense, but that's THE problem we need to fix to really compete. And time will tell if these investments were the right ones.

Because the defense was a playoff defense last year - for sure. We didn't lose many games because of Graham's schemes and the overall talent. Unfortunately, the offense couldn't hold up it's end of the bargain.

Maybe Jackson solves a problem. But that money, IMV, could have been much better spend to beef up a bigger question mark - the OL.


You stink. The offense is a “massive problem” get real. Would the Golladay money have been better spent on OL? Would our first round pick have been better spent on an OL?

We improved on both sides of the ball. the offense certainly is the weaker side of the football for us, but a “massive problem” … cant wait until you’re raving about our offense next year.
Bergen  
Dr. D : 6/18/2021 8:52 am : link
Re, "can't wait til you're raving about the offense next year", I don’t think that's how bw rolls. Word on the street is that he disappears when the Giants do well.
Exactly...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/18/2021 8:54 am : link
bw hasn't raved about anything Giants related unless it was regaling the board about Parcells.

During the two SB seasons, the guy was nowhere to be found and when he came back who was the target for him to bitch about? Eli.
Jay on the Island  
Dr. D : 6/18/2021 9:09 am : link
your assessment of the D is right on.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
Big Blue '56 : 6/18/2021 9:15 am : link
In comment 15288864 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 15288484 bw in dc said:


Quote:



Because the defense was a playoff defense last year - for sure. We didn't lose many games because of Graham's schemes and the overall talent. Unfortunately, the offense couldn't hold up it's end of the bargain.

Maybe Jackson solves a problem. But that money, IMV, could have been much better spend to beef up a bigger question mark - the OL.


You’re very wrong. The defense was solid but the second CB spot literally cost the Giants at least two wins last season. Go back and re-watch the first Eagles and Cowboys game. Late in the 4th quarter of both games the QB threw a deep Hail Mary type of pass that was completed versus Ryan Lewis, one of which Lewis fell down. Both plays would have been easily prevented by Jackson or Aaron Robinson. Either of those plays would have resulted in a win and a playoff spot.

Patrick Graham did a masterful job last season but it’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to do it again without an infusion of talent on defense. Losing Tomlinson was disappointing but Danny Shelton will be a suitable replacement. The defense should be even better this season with the additions of Ifeadi Odenigbo, Azeez Ojulari, Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Elerson Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Reggie Ragland.

The defense still needs an established pass rusher but hopefully a few of these guys step up and becomes a consistent pass rusher. I still expect the Giants to add another pass rusher early in next years draft but I am really excited about Ojulari and Elerson Smith. Even if both players develop as hoped you can never have too many pass rushers. Of all the offseason additions I think that Odenigbo will earn the most playing time. He is probably the best OLB at setting the edge versus the run.


Wait, you’re pre-supposing that bw watched ANY Giants games last year…:)
Not for nothing but Points Per Game  
Jimmy Googs : 6/18/2021 9:17 am : link
is the metric.

All the others take a back seat to this one...
RE: Exactly...  
Dr. D : 6/18/2021 9:28 am : link
In comment 15288932 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
bw hasn't raved about anything Giants related unless it was regaling the board about Parcells.

During the two SB seasons, the guy was nowhere to be found and when he came back who was the target for him to bitch about? Eli.

FMIC, I'm no psychologist, but that seems like a crappy way to live (just being a negative Howler monkey all the time). Get help, bw in dc.



Keep your eye on the ball! The offense SUCKS!
RE: RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
UConn4523 : 6/18/2021 9:28 am : link
In comment 15288864 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 15288484 bw in dc said:


Quote:



Because the defense was a playoff defense last year - for sure. We didn't lose many games because of Graham's schemes and the overall talent. Unfortunately, the offense couldn't hold up it's end of the bargain.

Maybe Jackson solves a problem. But that money, IMV, could have been much better spend to beef up a bigger question mark - the OL.


You’re very wrong. The defense was solid but the second CB spot literally cost the Giants at least two wins last season. Go back and re-watch the first Eagles and Cowboys game. Late in the 4th quarter of both games the QB threw a deep Hail Mary type of pass that was completed versus Ryan Lewis, one of which Lewis fell down. Both plays would have been easily prevented by Jackson or Aaron Robinson. Either of those plays would have resulted in a win and a playoff spot.

Patrick Graham did a masterful job last season but it’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to do it again without an infusion of talent on defense. Losing Tomlinson was disappointing but Danny Shelton will be a suitable replacement. The defense should be even better this season with the additions of Ifeadi Odenigbo, Azeez Ojulari, Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Elerson Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Reggie Ragland.

The defense still needs an established pass rusher but hopefully a few of these guys step up and becomes a consistent pass rusher. I still expect the Giants to add another pass rusher early in next years draft but I am really excited about Ojulari and Elerson Smith. Even if both players develop as hoped you can never have too many pass rushers. Of all the offseason additions I think that Odenigbo will earn the most playing time. He is probably the best OLB at setting the edge versus the run.


Completely agree and since this thread is about the defense, that's what the focus should be. Not sure why anyone would take the "defense was good enough" angle other than to shift the conversation. And there's no way anyone can convince me that trying to put an even better, top tier defense on the field in 2021 is a bad thing, or a poor decision of where to allocate assets.

And we weren't going to be able to upgrade several spots on the OL, find a pass rusher, add 2 more corners, and add 2 WR's all in one offseason anyway. Looks to me like the Giants jumped at opportunities that presented themselves (KG, Jackson, and the trade down), added potentially 5 or 6 starters in doing so, and beefed up our 2022 draft capital where they can continue to upgrade other positions as freely as needed.
And the importance of still improving the CB position  
Jimmy Googs : 6/18/2021 9:31 am : link
was clear as day watching Baker Mayfield put on a clinic chewing up the NYG secondary last season when Bradberry missed the game due to Covid protocols.

I think Mayfield set a Browns record for completion percentage and led team on a few epic drives that put this game away early. He played pitch and catch with his guys and exposed a bunch of guys in the bradberry-less Secondary fairly easily.


Interesting  
Dr. D : 6/18/2021 9:34 am : link
and I'm not suggesting this is bw's problem, but while looking for a pic, I found this article about a study titled:

"The louder the monkey, the smaller its balls"

"A new study finds that animals can make a lot of noise or a lot of sperm — but trying to do both just takes too much energy."

Learn something new everyday.

study-the-louder-the-monkey-the-smaller-its-balls - ( New Window )
btw  
Dr. D : 6/18/2021 9:43 am : link
my posts are all in jest. Not meant to be mean. How big or small anyone elses balls are (and whether their size makes a person louder or not), is totally none of my business. Peace!
RE: And the importance of still improving the CB position  
Angel Eyes : 6/18/2021 10:01 am : link
In comment 15288959 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
was clear as day watching Baker Mayfield put on a clinic chewing up the NYG secondary last season when Bradberry missed the game due to Covid protocols.

I think Mayfield set a Browns record for completion percentage and led team on a few epic drives that put this game away early. He played pitch and catch with his guys and exposed a bunch of guys in the bradberry-less Secondary fairly easily.


Plus it really showed how behind Devonte Downs was. He really blew the coverage on that first touchdown.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
bw in dc : 6/18/2021 11:09 am : link
In comment 15288864 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:


You’re very wrong. The defense was solid but the second CB spot literally cost the Giants at least two wins last season. Go back and re-watch the first Eagles and Cowboys game. Late in the 4th quarter of both games the QB threw a deep Hail Mary type of pass that was completed versus Ryan Lewis, one of which Lewis fell down. Both plays would have been easily prevented by Jackson or Aaron Robinson. Either of those plays would have resulted in a win and a playoff spot.

Patrick Graham did a masterful job last season but it’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to do it again without an infusion of talent on defense. Losing Tomlinson was disappointing but Danny Shelton will be a suitable replacement. The defense should be even better this season with the additions of Ifeadi Odenigbo, Azeez Ojulari, Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Elerson Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Reggie Ragland.

The defense still needs an established pass rusher but hopefully a few of these guys step up and becomes a consistent pass rusher. I still expect the Giants to add another pass rusher early in next years draft but I am really excited about Ojulari and Elerson Smith. Even if both players develop as hoped you can never have too many pass rushers. Of all the offseason additions I think that Odenigbo will earn the most playing time. He is probably the best OLB at setting the edge versus the run.


The first Dallas game was a struggle for the entire defense. It was strange game with Prescott going down and Dalton coming in for relief. But every good defense has a few games a season where they can't get off the field. The irony of that Dallas game is we actually scored a ton of points for a change.

Uh, I'm not sure what Eagles/Giants game you were watching, but we didn't lose that game due to corner play. We lost the game because Engram couldn't convert a crucial third down pass that would have put the game away. And when down by one with about 40 second to go, the OL got called for holding and then Jones fumbled.

And let's pump the brakes on Aaron Robinson. Proclaiming a guy who hasn't played a minute of an NFL game as someone who would have made a play in an actual game is pretty silly.

My point is the defense doesn't need to be that much better to get us into the playoffs because they are already a playoff caliber difference. The difference between being the 9th best team in PPG allowed and getting into the top five is basically three PPG. So if we get that incremental improvement it isn't going to be enough to make a material difference in Wins and Losses. That material difference needs to come from the offense.

Look, in Graham I Trust. He will take the parts he has, scheme it up, and keep us in nearly every game. And then it's up to the offense...

RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
bw in dc : 6/18/2021 11:11 am : link
In comment 15288758 Dr. D said:
Quote:

We have to talk about how the OFFENSE is gonna SUCK this year! Because it SUCKED last year and couldn't possibly be better this year!

If we don't keep our eye on the ball, we'll be lettin the team down, or somethin'. No talking about the defense!

Get it?


As usual, another poster who makes things up because he can't read. RIF.

I never said the offense can't get better and improve. I said that's where the success of the season actually hinges, not on the defense.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
bw in dc : 6/18/2021 11:18 am : link
In comment 15288872 Bergen346 said:
Quote:


You stink. The offense is a “massive problem” get real. Would the Golladay money have been better spent on OL? Would our first round pick have been better spent on an OL?

We improved on both sides of the ball. the offense certainly is the weaker side of the football for us, but a “massive problem” … cant wait until you’re raving about our offense next year.


Yes, we have added more parts. There was no other choice after years of incompetent roster construction.

But until we see the offense actually perform, everything is on paper; and it's still the biggest problem until proven otherwise. So I'm not subscribing to your crystal ball service.

And all of us are crossing our fingers and hoping the decision makers got this right sticking with the same constituent parts on this OL. That is a big, big gamble.

we all know that improvement that would  
UConn4523 : 6/18/2021 11:19 am : link
have a greater impact is the offense stepping up. Typing it on every thread takes away from the discussion that's of a different topic. There's hundreds of offense/garrett/jones threads to choose from or start all over. You are free to post however you want but you don't seem interested in talking about the defense on a defense thread which is why you are taking shit.

I still disagree with the notion that our defense is good enough - maybe it is with an average offense (which is what you are alluding to), but it could also be dominant if the things align right and that allows the offense to play loose and not press so much. It also creates shorter fields for the offense, and hopefully, more opportunities to play with a lead.

I see nothing wrong with trying to build an elite unit and when you factor in that we couldn't upgrade everything in 1 offseason, I think this was a sound strategy.
UConn  
ColHowPepper : 6/18/2021 11:51 am : link
agree with your perspective, even if I also agree with bw's that the O was and remains the bigger issue in terms of NFL competitiveness. But strengthening a strong unit is never bad, viz. Giants' continued excellent drafting of LBs in the '80s.

While most of the comments here addressed how good Graham's comments were--and they were and are--I was more struck by Ranaan's scoop from an NFL coach that 'every team's' scheme on offense was to attack CB2, opposite Bradbury. This obviously wasn't lost on the coaching staff and FO, and good for them in addressing it head on. Let's hope AJ can stay on the field.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
Angel Eyes : 6/18/2021 12:31 pm : link
In comment 15289012 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15288864 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:




You’re very wrong. The defense was solid but the second CB spot literally cost the Giants at least two wins last season. Go back and re-watch the first Eagles and Cowboys game. Late in the 4th quarter of both games the QB threw a deep Hail Mary type of pass that was completed versus Ryan Lewis, one of which Lewis fell down. Both plays would have been easily prevented by Jackson or Aaron Robinson. Either of those plays would have resulted in a win and a playoff spot.

Patrick Graham did a masterful job last season but it’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to do it again without an infusion of talent on defense. Losing Tomlinson was disappointing but Danny Shelton will be a suitable replacement. The defense should be even better this season with the additions of Ifeadi Odenigbo, Azeez Ojulari, Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Elerson Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Reggie Ragland.

The defense still needs an established pass rusher but hopefully a few of these guys step up and becomes a consistent pass rusher. I still expect the Giants to add another pass rusher early in next years draft but I am really excited about Ojulari and Elerson Smith. Even if both players develop as hoped you can never have too many pass rushers. Of all the offseason additions I think that Odenigbo will earn the most playing time. He is probably the best OLB at setting the edge versus the run.



The first Dallas game was a struggle for the entire defense. It was strange game with Prescott going down and Dalton coming in for relief. But every good defense has a few games a season where they can't get off the field. The irony of that Dallas game is we actually scored a ton of points for a change.

Uh, I'm not sure what Eagles/Giants game you were watching, but we didn't lose that game due to corner play. We lost the game because Engram couldn't convert a crucial third down pass that would have put the game away. And when down by one with about 40 second to go, the OL got called for holding and then Jones fumbled.

And let's pump the brakes on Aaron Robinson. Proclaiming a guy who hasn't played a minute of an NFL game as someone who would have made a play in an actual game is pretty silly.

My point is the defense doesn't need to be that much better to get us into the playoffs because they are already a playoff caliber difference. The difference between being the 9th best team in PPG allowed and getting into the top five is basically three PPG. So if we get that incremental improvement it isn't going to be enough to make a material difference in Wins and Losses. That material difference needs to come from the offense.

Look, in Graham I Trust. He will take the parts he has, scheme it up, and keep us in nearly every game. And then it's up to the offense...

The defense folded in that last six minutes of the Eagles game and has just as much to blame. We had the game in hand, but a lot of shit happened that put the Eagles in good position to take advantage.

Some of that was on Ryan Lewis; illegal contact negating a sack by B.J. Hill, then he surrendered 59 yards to Hightower on the very next play that sets up the Eagles at the 14-yard line. Harper gets beaten by Greg Ward for a touchdown, then adds insult to injury via unnecessary roughness. Harper gets burned again for 30 yards later on. Bradberry and Ryan get penalties, then Peppers got beaten for the game-winning touchdown.

it's just silly to think that the D was fine  
Dr. D : 6/18/2021 12:49 pm : link
and won't benefit from more talent, including a 2nd legit CB.

Our D was respectable in '20. It has potential to be great in '21.

Great >>> respectable
RE: it's just silly to think that the D was fine  
Angel Eyes : 6/18/2021 1:12 pm : link
In comment 15289071 Dr. D said:
Quote:
and won't benefit from more talent, including a 2nd legit CB.

Our D was respectable in '20. It has potential to be great in '21.

Great >>> respectable

Well, I personally feel that I'm not really going to be set with the defense until we have a guy or two who can consistently play the run and pass rush off the edge. Right now I'm hoping that guys like Odenigbo (if we choose to re-sign him), Ojulari, and Smith can provide an answer.
 
christian : 6/18/2021 1:31 pm : link
You can retroactively diagnose who “blew it” in every game.

If you want to get forensic about why the Giants didn’t make the playoffs, you really should start with the 4 games the Giants scored 10 or fewer points, and the 8 games the Giants scored 20 or fewer points.

The Giants have a good defense. They have an excellent, talented secondary, two stand out defensive lineman, and a premium middle linebacker. They just drafted arguably the most talented pure edge rusher in the draft.

I get the sense of the Giants if the Giants had picked Ojulari in the first round and not the second this wouldn’t be such a debate.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
bw in dc : 6/18/2021 2:12 pm : link
In comment 15289059 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:

The defense folded in that last six minutes of the Eagles game and has just as much to blame. We had the game in hand, but a lot of shit happened that put the Eagles in good position to take advantage.

Some of that was on Ryan Lewis; illegal contact negating a sack by B.J. Hill, then he surrendered 59 yards to Hightower on the very next play that sets up the Eagles at the 14-yard line. Harper gets beaten by Greg Ward for a touchdown, then adds insult to injury via unnecessary roughness. Harper gets burned again for 30 yards later on. Bradberry and Ryan get penalties, then Peppers got beaten for the game-winning touchdown.


We were up 21-10 and those plays did happen as you described. But it's all very likely moot if Engram makes the catch on 3rd and 6.

That was the epitome of a team loss. So I'm not going to pin the loss on just Lewis. The other team's players get paid, too. And the Eagles made plays.
RE: it's just silly to think that the D was fine  
bw in dc : 6/18/2021 2:23 pm : link
In comment 15289071 Dr. D said:
Quote:
and won't benefit from more talent, including a 2nd legit CB.

Our D was respectable in '20. It has potential to be great in '21.

Great >>> respectable


Who said adding another quality corner is a bad thing? If Jackson is that answer, fine.

And I know most of you can keep resisting the idea, but you don't need a great D to win in today's NFL. You need an opportunistic D that gives up FGs instead of TDs and is pretty good on third down.

In fact, I would argue it's the side of the ball where you should spend least amount of cap dollars. Target dollars on corners and pass rush, and look for versatility, size and speed everywhere else.
While last year's defense was much better than the offense, the 2nd  
Ira : 6/18/2021 2:30 pm : link
corner was one of the weakest positions on both sides of the ball and needed to be upgraded.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
Dr. D : 6/18/2021 2:54 pm : link
In comment 15289014 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15288758 Dr. D said:


Quote:



We have to talk about how the OFFENSE is gonna SUCK this year! Because it SUCKED last year and couldn't possibly be better this year!

If we don't keep our eye on the ball, we'll be lettin the team down, or somethin'. No talking about the defense!

Get it?



As usual, another poster who makes things up because he can't read. RIF.

I never said the offense can't get better and improve. I said that's where the success of the season actually hinges, not on the defense.

My apologies if I misrepresented your thoughts, but it's not that I "can't read". It's that I choose to not read certain posts very carefully. Only so much time in the day.

I think everyone agrees that the offense has by far the most room to improve. But it's a team game and if the D can go from good to great, it will help the whole team.

A better D that gets off the field more consistently on 3rd down, will lead to better field position for the O. A great D will hold a lead late in the 4th Q.

A great D will lead to more wins than a pretty good D.
I just don't understand anyone who might think  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/18/2021 3:14 pm : link
the defense was in good shape with one starting-quality CB on the roster. If you're watching football in 2021 and don't think DBs aren't a top priority, I question what you're watching. If you don't have 3 CBs on your roster that you trust, you're going to get roasted.
Imo  
Bill2 : 6/18/2021 3:19 pm : link
In the Northeast, in a division that almost always schedules winter away games in Philly and DC winning in bad weather in season and post season by narrow margins and ferocious defense to minimize otherwise fatal mistakes is and always has been a necessity in most years.

Between the cold, wind and sometimes rain and snow of an outdoor stadium in a swamp off the Atlantic Ocean...defense is precious to the narrow margins of NFC East football in many seasons.

Improving the D and special teams is far more a difference in our situation than the dismissive speculation that it's only worth three points.

Among other things, a better defense translates to more chances for the offense in better field positions.

Does improving the offense matter? Sure it does. Did we? Probably

Nothing is easier than negative speculation about 53 participants in a complex game in a 50/50 league.

RE: I just don't understand anyone who might think  
christian : 6/18/2021 3:29 pm : link
In comment 15289161 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
the defense was in good shape with one starting-quality CB on the roster. If you're watching football in 2021 and don't think DBs aren't a top priority, I question what you're watching. If you don't have 3 CBs on your roster that you trust, you're going to get roasted.


Exactly. The Giants aren’t a playoff team with Yiadom getting 600 snaps.

It’s a passing league. Pass and stop the pass.

RE: RE: And the importance of still improving the CB position  
Jimmy Googs : 6/18/2021 4:08 pm : link
In comment 15288982 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15288959 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


was clear as day watching Baker Mayfield put on a clinic chewing up the NYG secondary last season when Bradberry missed the game due to Covid protocols.

I think Mayfield set a Browns record for completion percentage and led team on a few epic drives that put this game away early. He played pitch and catch with his guys and exposed a bunch of guys in the bradberry-less Secondary fairly easily.




Plus it really showed how behind Devonte Downs was. He really blew the coverage on that first touchdown.


Yeah, Downs is not a good player. Re-signed this past spring but at least someone had the good common sense to only give $75K in guaranteed dollars which tells you everything you need to know.

This thread has a lot of folks puffing out their chests over a silly battle of wills as to what is more important - offense or defense. When the obvious point is they both are, although the NYG Offense is lagging way too far behind in keeping up its end of the bargain...
RE: I just don't understand anyone who might think  
bw in dc : 6/18/2021 4:26 pm : link
In comment 15289161 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
the defense was in good shape with one starting-quality CB on the roster. If you're watching football in 2021 and don't think DBs aren't a top priority, I question what you're watching. If you don't have 3 CBs on your roster that you trust, you're going to get roasted.


Who said not having quality corners wasn't important?

By the end of the year, however, this defense under Graham had grown into a playoff caliber defense. Over the last 8 games we were giving up 19PPG. And that would easily put as a top five defense in the league in PPG allowed.

Having talent is important, but having a coach who can scheme it up and get players to buy in is more important. And that's what we have in Graham.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
Jay on the Island : 6/18/2021 7:37 pm : link
In comment 15289012 bw in dc said:
Quote:


Uh, I'm not sure what Eagles/Giants game you were watching, but we didn't lose that game due to corner play. We lost the game because Engram couldn't convert a crucial third down pass that would have put the game away. And when down by one with about 40 second to go, the OL got called for holding and then Jones fumbled.

And let's pump the brakes on Aaron Robinson. Proclaiming a guy who hasn't played a minute of an NFL game as someone who would have made a play in an actual game is pretty silly.

My point is the defense doesn't need to be that much better to get us into the playoffs because they are already a playoff caliber difference. The difference between being the 9th best team in PPG allowed and getting into the top five is basically three PPG. So if we get that incremental improvement it isn't going to be enough to make a material difference in Wins and Losses. That material difference needs to come from the offense.

Look, in Graham I Trust. He will take the parts he has, scheme it up, and keep us in nearly every game. And then it's up to the offense...

I remember that game well and yes the Giants win if Engram catches that pass but to say that corner play wasn’t the reason the Giants lost is one of the most absurd things you’ve said on this board. Lewis literally gave up a decisive deep pass that lead to the winning score.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Our D wasn’t the problem last year…  
bw in dc : 6/18/2021 7:59 pm : link
In comment 15289349 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:

I remember that game well and yes the Giants win if Engram catches that pass but to say that corner play wasn’t the reason the Giants lost is one of the most absurd things you’ve said on this board. Lewis literally gave up a decisive deep pass that lead to the winning score.


That long play allowed by Lewis was on the series prior when the Giants were up 21-10.

The last series was a long pass to the Eagle TE Rodgers. And that was on a broken play where Wentz was rolling out and threw back across the field...
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