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| But the signing of cornerback Adoree' Jackson this offseason changes everything. "In our system, we want to be able to play man [coverage], when it comes to third down, red [zone] area, two-minute [defense]," Graham said. "In this league, you're going to have to play some version of man at some point." The Giants didn't feel comfortable enough last season to play man-to-man coverage often or when it counted most. Only the Carolina Panthers played less man coverage in 2020. The Giants played man on 33.1% of opponents' dropbacks last year, per ESPN Stats & Information. In comparison, Graham's defense in Miami the previous season played man coverage on 60.8% of opponents' dropbacks. During Judge's time in New England, the Patriots played the second most man coverage on 62.2% of the passing downs. ... An executive whose team faced the Giants last season said the team's game plan was simple against New York: attack whoever was playing CB2. Ballentine, Lewis, Isaac Yiadom, Madre Harper, Julian Love; it didn't matter. "That was every team's plan against them," the executive said. |
They've invested even more in 2021, it's time to see dividends on gameday.
Do we have the guys who can win upfront?
The bigger, massive problem is the offense.
There's immense value in strengthening a strength.
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it also allowed us to be even more flexible in the draft since clearly we wanted to upgrade CB by any means necessary. Adding Ojulari + 2 CB's who can play man coverage should mean a better pass rush.
Do we have the guys who can win upfront?
Of course the Giants do. The Giants were 8th in pressures, 10th pressure percentage, 7th in knock downs, 6th in knock down percentage. They were 10th rush yards against.
Pressuring the quarterback is consistently the number 1 predictor of lower passer rating against. The Giants are very good upfront.
The bigger, massive problem is the offense.
"massive problem" ... a bit dramatic? We improved on the offensive side of the ball this offseason. We should absolutely be better this season. I have high expectations.
And, ya know, an even better defense means our offense spends more time on the field. More weapons + more TOP will result in more points.
Depends; if we're emulating the Patriots, the Patriots don't seem to like productive edge players, just ask Chandler Jones. They prefer mediocre guys who contain the pocket.
That makes me optimistic.
Hopefully that investment works as well as the Bradberry one did last year. Playing man can really give Graham lots of options in facing the higher quality QBs on the schedule.
It's exciting to see what a real first-line coach is.
Yes, but at some point I still think they need to invest premium resources, aside from Ojulari. Hopefully, he's at least one part of a solution but suspect they still need to find a #1 rusher who impacts the game. I don't think Carter or X are long for the NFL.
A decent group of WR1's for him this year.
I think if he follows the top guys week to week and shuts em down he will be in the DPOY conversation, hard for CB to win that award though. Gilmore won it recently but the Pats D was insane that year.
That makes me optimistic.
100%
That's a good read. Yes it's all talk until we see results on the field...but this quote from the article is exactly how we want our coaches to feel:
"You need to play man-to-man coverage in this league, period, point blank. And obviously six wins last year, we didn't do enough on defense, so the hell with that; we are looking at all options, whether it's blitz more, blitz less, play less zone, play more man, we need a whole lot of options. Six wins is not going to cut it."
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new players to add to Ximenes and Carter. The edge HAS to be more productive.
Yes, but at some point I still think they need to invest premium resources, aside from Ojulari. Hopefully, he's at least one part of a solution but suspect they still need to find a #1 rusher who impacts the game. I don't think Carter or X are long for the NFL.
If I were the Giants, I’d use at least one of our top picks in 2022 (how many do we have, by the way?) to get an edge rusher like Drake Jackson, George Karlaftis, or Zach Harrison (Kayvon Thibodeaux might be out of reach should we do well this year). But hey, I’m not part of the Giants’ front office, they have a different idea than I do.
....
"You need to play man-to-man coverage in this league, period, point blank. And obviously six wins last year, we didn't do enough on defense, so the hell with that; we are looking at all options, whether it's blitz more, blitz less, play less zone, play more man, we need a whole lot of options. Six wins is not going to cut it."
This is a very encouraging quote from coach Graham.
yeah, the defense was PERFECT last year, no need to upgrade. Getting off the field more consistently on 3rd down is over-rated. Let's get back to bashing the young QB!
....
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"You need to play man-to-man coverage in this league, period, point blank. And obviously six wins last year, we didn't do enough on defense, so the hell with that; we are looking at all options, whether it's blitz more, blitz less, play less zone, play more man, we need a whole lot of options. Six wins is not going to cut it."
This is a very encouraging quote from coach Graham.
It's perfectly put. A top 10 defense is nice, but tons of room for improvement and i'd like to think we can turn it up a notch with the additions we made.
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It improved and was top ten in points allowed. Sure, more flexibility and variation won’t hurt but let’s keep our eye on the ball.
The bigger, massive problem is the offense.
"massive problem" ... a bit dramatic? We improved on the offensive side of the ball this offseason. We should absolutely be better this season. I have high expectations.
And, ya know, an even better defense means our offense spends more time on the field. More weapons + more TOP will result in more points.
I get the expectations based on the investments to the offense, but that's THE problem we need to fix to really compete. And time will tell if these investments were the right ones.
Because the defense was a playoff defense last year - for sure. We didn't lose many games because of Graham's schemes and the overall talent. Unfortunately, the offense couldn't hold up it's end of the bargain.
Maybe Jackson solves a problem. But that money, IMV, could have been much better spend to beef up a bigger question mark - the OL.
There's immense value in strengthening a strength.
We gave up 22ppg. Top five gets us to about 20ppg. So I'm not sure improving 2-3 more ppg is the answer to really get over the hump.
Significantly increasing the 17.5ppg from the offense is the real opportunity to success.
So we can play more man to man, get off the field quicker, etc. But this success of the season still boils down to the offense scoring a ton more points.
That makes me optimistic.
which is why he's a good coach.
And we invested in the offense so we will see there too. The Giants feel differently than you on the OL - they could have used the cap to sign a FA or draft one, they didn’t do either. Doesn’t mean they are right but that’s what happened, no sense longing for them to have done otherwise.
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the offensive rabbit hole. There's any number of threads to discuss that. And just because the defense was top 10 doesn't mean we shouldn't want to shoot for top 5. And if that happens, isn't that a good thing for everyone including the offense?
There's immense value in strengthening a strength.
We gave up 22ppg. Top five gets us to about 20ppg. So I'm not sure improving 2-3 more ppg is the answer to really get over the hump.
Significantly increasing the 17.5ppg from the offense is the real opportunity to success.
So we can play more man to man, get off the field quicker, etc. But this success of the season still boils down to the offense scoring a ton more points.
Those PPG stats are misleading imo. Giants sat in zone, and slowly got picked apart, especially as the year went on. PPG was great sure, but they were 15th in Points Allowed per Drive, 18th in Yard Allowed per Drive - this was a middle of the pack defense.
And we invested in the offense so we will see there too. The Giants feel differently than you on the OL - they could have used the cap to sign a FA or draft one, they didn’t do either. Doesn’t mean they are right but that’s what happened, no sense longing for them to have done otherwise.
Agree with this. Our defense was light years better, but still struggled to get 3rd down stops in big moments.
If Giants want to be a team that can pull out close games we lost last year against teams like the Rams, Bucs, first Philly game, first Dallas game, they need to be better on defense too, not just offense
Exactly. This was not a playoff defense simply because it was Bradberry on an island there. Jackson helps fill that void.
Really the whole point of teh tread, but not surprisingly the misdirection here is to discuss the offense.
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1 metric. What about 3rd down defense (ranked mid 20s)? Turnovers created (ranked 13th)? We have a ton of room to improve.
And we invested in the offense so we will see there too. The Giants feel differently than you on the OL - they could have used the cap to sign a FA or draft one, they didn’t do either. Doesn’t mean they are right but that’s what happened, no sense longing for them to have done otherwise.
Agree with this. Our defense was light years better, but still struggled to get 3rd down stops in big moments.
If Giants want to be a team that can pull out close games we lost last year against teams like the Rams, Bucs, first Philly game, first Dallas game, they need to be better on defense too, not just offense
The first Dallas game is one that really sticks with me. That last drive to the field goal...
Do we have the guys who can win upfront?
You've got to figure at least one of the edge guys will pop, whether one of the new guys, or X/Zo Carter. I still think that analysts have under-appreciated the pressure the Giants were able to generate last year. They were 8th in QB pressures, 12th in sacks, 7th in QB knockdowns.
Not saying that pressure doesn't need improvement, but it wasn't as dire as some analysts make it out to be.
That's how it works. The other team attacks your weaknesses and pushes you to get stronger there. You do the same to them.
Saquon back, KG and Toney, Rudolph, young OL and QB development... and there is hope. Adding depth at CB and a legit CB2 + Azeez and Elerson is just icing on the cake. Playoffs or bust now.
PPG is a one metric. But a significant one because the lower the numbers the more games you are in (obviously).
Turnovers are almost impossible to predict one year to the next. So I don't try to forecast that. But, yes, if we can get more turnovers to create more points, and have a better +/-, that would certainly help.
More pressure with a improved secondary is gonna make it tough on QB's imo.
Should the O improve even a little bit that will make our D even better.
All the O has to do besides reducing turnovers is to increase first down conversions and red zone conversions.
Improvement in TOP will greatly benefit the D as they will be a bit more rested.
Converting some red zone field goals into Touchdowns will both energize the D and force the opposing O to take more risk which given the improved talent level in the D might mean more turnovers for us
Easier said than done for sure. But the talent level has improved on both sides of the ball. So should our compete level
What I love about it the most is his fit with Bradberry. They now have a top notch physical CB and a top notch speed CB.
It also sounds like the Giants are using Jackson in the slot, too. Still can't believe he was available.
Was very much what Spags had when he first came here - good players but just not quite enough.
This year will be good, by next he should have enough to be a Super Bowl contender, (on his side of the ball).
5-1 or even 6-0 in the division is doable with this team.
If the Giants assessment is true, he's got the talent and pedigree to be a dominant pure edge rusher.
If you rewind to the middle of March and predict the Giants pick Ojulari at number 11, I don't believe you'd get many batted lashes. If he's healthy he's the edge rusher that's been missing.
Well, that would be a departure from what Graham learned under Belichick because BB demands that his corners tackle. That's always been a staple.
If the Giants assessment is true, he's got the talent and pedigree to be a dominant pure edge rusher.
If you rewind to the middle of March and predict the Giants pick Ojulari at number 11, I don't believe you'd get many batted lashes. If he's healthy he's the edge rusher that's been missing.
But if he enters camp healthy and gets thru the season healthy we should have a talented player to build on. A lot of 2nd round guys are in the 2nd round due to injury issues and occasionally you get lucky. Lets pray he is the goods and provides the speed edge rush we sorely lack.
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is to protect Bradberry and Jackson from too much tackling contact coming up in force. Neither is a terrific, sturdy tackler so it's wise to boost the resistance in front of them to reduce the load and chance for injury.
Well, that would be a departure from what Graham learned under Belichick because BB demands that his corners tackle. That's always been a staple.
That's why he drafted and played Asante Samuel so much. ;-)
The bigger, massive problem is the offense.
What does that have to do with this thread?Plus, German.
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is to protect Bradberry and Jackson from too much tackling contact coming up in force. Neither is a terrific, sturdy tackler so it's wise to boost the resistance in front of them to reduce the load and chance for injury.
Well, that would be a departure from what Graham learned under Belichick because BB demands that his corners tackle. That's always been a staple.
Corners always have to tackle, but some are Mark Collins and many are not.
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It improved and was top ten in points allowed. Sure, more flexibility and variation won’t hurt but let’s keep our eye on the ball.
The bigger, massive problem is the offense.
What does that have to do with this thread?Plus, German.
Don't you understand? We have to keep our eye on the ball!!
We have to talk about how the OFFENSE is gonna SUCK this year! Because it SUCKED last year and couldn't possibly be better this year!
If we don't keep our eye on the ball, we'll be lettin the team down, or somethin'. No talking about the defense!
Get it?
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In comment 15288420 bw in dc said:
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It improved and was top ten in points allowed. Sure, more flexibility and variation won’t hurt but let’s keep our eye on the ball.
The bigger, massive problem is the offense.
What does that have to do with this thread?Plus, German.
Don't you understand? We have to keep our eye on the ball!!
We have to talk about how the OFFENSE is gonna SUCK this year! Because it SUCKED last year and couldn't possibly be better this year!
If we don't keep our eye on the ball, we'll be lettin the team down, or somethin'. No talking about the defense!
Get it?
The defense did let us down a couple times; the first Dallas game and the Baltimore game were embarrassing.
Because the defense was a playoff defense last year - for sure. We didn't lose many games because of Graham's schemes and the overall talent. Unfortunately, the offense couldn't hold up it's end of the bargain.
Maybe Jackson solves a problem. But that money, IMV, could have been much better spend to beef up a bigger question mark - the OL.
You’re very wrong. The defense was solid but the second CB spot literally cost the Giants at least two wins last season. Go back and re-watch the first Eagles and Cowboys game. Late in the 4th quarter of both games the QB threw a deep Hail Mary type of pass that was completed versus Ryan Lewis, one of which Lewis fell down. Both plays would have been easily prevented by Jackson or Aaron Robinson. Either of those plays would have resulted in a win and a playoff spot.
Patrick Graham did a masterful job last season but it’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to do it again without an infusion of talent on defense. Losing Tomlinson was disappointing but Danny Shelton will be a suitable replacement. The defense should be even better this season with the additions of Ifeadi Odenigbo, Azeez Ojulari, Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Elerson Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Reggie Ragland.
The defense still needs an established pass rusher but hopefully a few of these guys step up and becomes a consistent pass rusher. I still expect the Giants to add another pass rusher early in next years draft but I am really excited about Ojulari and Elerson Smith. Even if both players develop as hoped you can never have too many pass rushers. Of all the offseason additions I think that Odenigbo will earn the most playing time. He is probably the best OLB at setting the edge versus the run.
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In comment 15288420 bw in dc said:
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It improved and was top ten in points allowed. Sure, more flexibility and variation won’t hurt but let’s keep our eye on the ball.
The bigger, massive problem is the offense.
"massive problem" ... a bit dramatic? We improved on the offensive side of the ball this offseason. We should absolutely be better this season. I have high expectations.
And, ya know, an even better defense means our offense spends more time on the field. More weapons + more TOP will result in more points.
I get the expectations based on the investments to the offense, but that's THE problem we need to fix to really compete. And time will tell if these investments were the right ones.
Because the defense was a playoff defense last year - for sure. We didn't lose many games because of Graham's schemes and the overall talent. Unfortunately, the offense couldn't hold up it's end of the bargain.
Maybe Jackson solves a problem. But that money, IMV, could have been much better spend to beef up a bigger question mark - the OL.
You stink. The offense is a “massive problem” get real. Would the Golladay money have been better spent on OL? Would our first round pick have been better spent on an OL?
We improved on both sides of the ball. the offense certainly is the weaker side of the football for us, but a “massive problem” … cant wait until you’re raving about our offense next year.
During the two SB seasons, the guy was nowhere to be found and when he came back who was the target for him to bitch about? Eli.
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Because the defense was a playoff defense last year - for sure. We didn't lose many games because of Graham's schemes and the overall talent. Unfortunately, the offense couldn't hold up it's end of the bargain.
Maybe Jackson solves a problem. But that money, IMV, could have been much better spend to beef up a bigger question mark - the OL.
You’re very wrong. The defense was solid but the second CB spot literally cost the Giants at least two wins last season. Go back and re-watch the first Eagles and Cowboys game. Late in the 4th quarter of both games the QB threw a deep Hail Mary type of pass that was completed versus Ryan Lewis, one of which Lewis fell down. Both plays would have been easily prevented by Jackson or Aaron Robinson. Either of those plays would have resulted in a win and a playoff spot.
Patrick Graham did a masterful job last season but it’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to do it again without an infusion of talent on defense. Losing Tomlinson was disappointing but Danny Shelton will be a suitable replacement. The defense should be even better this season with the additions of Ifeadi Odenigbo, Azeez Ojulari, Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Elerson Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Reggie Ragland.
The defense still needs an established pass rusher but hopefully a few of these guys step up and becomes a consistent pass rusher. I still expect the Giants to add another pass rusher early in next years draft but I am really excited about Ojulari and Elerson Smith. Even if both players develop as hoped you can never have too many pass rushers. Of all the offseason additions I think that Odenigbo will earn the most playing time. He is probably the best OLB at setting the edge versus the run.
Wait, you’re pre-supposing that bw watched ANY Giants games last year…:)
All the others take a back seat to this one...
During the two SB seasons, the guy was nowhere to be found and when he came back who was the target for him to bitch about? Eli.
FMIC, I'm no psychologist, but that seems like a crappy way to live (just being a negative Howler monkey all the time). Get help, bw in dc.
Keep your eye on the ball! The offense SUCKS!
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Because the defense was a playoff defense last year - for sure. We didn't lose many games because of Graham's schemes and the overall talent. Unfortunately, the offense couldn't hold up it's end of the bargain.
Maybe Jackson solves a problem. But that money, IMV, could have been much better spend to beef up a bigger question mark - the OL.
You’re very wrong. The defense was solid but the second CB spot literally cost the Giants at least two wins last season. Go back and re-watch the first Eagles and Cowboys game. Late in the 4th quarter of both games the QB threw a deep Hail Mary type of pass that was completed versus Ryan Lewis, one of which Lewis fell down. Both plays would have been easily prevented by Jackson or Aaron Robinson. Either of those plays would have resulted in a win and a playoff spot.
Patrick Graham did a masterful job last season but it’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to do it again without an infusion of talent on defense. Losing Tomlinson was disappointing but Danny Shelton will be a suitable replacement. The defense should be even better this season with the additions of Ifeadi Odenigbo, Azeez Ojulari, Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Elerson Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Reggie Ragland.
The defense still needs an established pass rusher but hopefully a few of these guys step up and becomes a consistent pass rusher. I still expect the Giants to add another pass rusher early in next years draft but I am really excited about Ojulari and Elerson Smith. Even if both players develop as hoped you can never have too many pass rushers. Of all the offseason additions I think that Odenigbo will earn the most playing time. He is probably the best OLB at setting the edge versus the run.
Completely agree and since this thread is about the defense, that's what the focus should be. Not sure why anyone would take the "defense was good enough" angle other than to shift the conversation. And there's no way anyone can convince me that trying to put an even better, top tier defense on the field in 2021 is a bad thing, or a poor decision of where to allocate assets.
And we weren't going to be able to upgrade several spots on the OL, find a pass rusher, add 2 more corners, and add 2 WR's all in one offseason anyway. Looks to me like the Giants jumped at opportunities that presented themselves (KG, Jackson, and the trade down), added potentially 5 or 6 starters in doing so, and beefed up our 2022 draft capital where they can continue to upgrade other positions as freely as needed.
I think Mayfield set a Browns record for completion percentage and led team on a few epic drives that put this game away early. He played pitch and catch with his guys and exposed a bunch of guys in the bradberry-less Secondary fairly easily.
"The louder the monkey, the smaller its balls"
"A new study finds that animals can make a lot of noise or a lot of sperm — but trying to do both just takes too much energy."
Learn something new everyday.
study-the-louder-the-monkey-the-smaller-its-balls - ( New Window )
I think Mayfield set a Browns record for completion percentage and led team on a few epic drives that put this game away early. He played pitch and catch with his guys and exposed a bunch of guys in the bradberry-less Secondary fairly easily.
Plus it really showed how behind Devonte Downs was. He really blew the coverage on that first touchdown.
You’re very wrong. The defense was solid but the second CB spot literally cost the Giants at least two wins last season. Go back and re-watch the first Eagles and Cowboys game. Late in the 4th quarter of both games the QB threw a deep Hail Mary type of pass that was completed versus Ryan Lewis, one of which Lewis fell down. Both plays would have been easily prevented by Jackson or Aaron Robinson. Either of those plays would have resulted in a win and a playoff spot.
Patrick Graham did a masterful job last season but it’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to do it again without an infusion of talent on defense. Losing Tomlinson was disappointing but Danny Shelton will be a suitable replacement. The defense should be even better this season with the additions of Ifeadi Odenigbo, Azeez Ojulari, Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Elerson Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Reggie Ragland.
The defense still needs an established pass rusher but hopefully a few of these guys step up and becomes a consistent pass rusher. I still expect the Giants to add another pass rusher early in next years draft but I am really excited about Ojulari and Elerson Smith. Even if both players develop as hoped you can never have too many pass rushers. Of all the offseason additions I think that Odenigbo will earn the most playing time. He is probably the best OLB at setting the edge versus the run.
The first Dallas game was a struggle for the entire defense. It was strange game with Prescott going down and Dalton coming in for relief. But every good defense has a few games a season where they can't get off the field. The irony of that Dallas game is we actually scored a ton of points for a change.
Uh, I'm not sure what Eagles/Giants game you were watching, but we didn't lose that game due to corner play. We lost the game because Engram couldn't convert a crucial third down pass that would have put the game away. And when down by one with about 40 second to go, the OL got called for holding and then Jones fumbled.
And let's pump the brakes on Aaron Robinson. Proclaiming a guy who hasn't played a minute of an NFL game as someone who would have made a play in an actual game is pretty silly.
My point is the defense doesn't need to be that much better to get us into the playoffs because they are already a playoff caliber difference. The difference between being the 9th best team in PPG allowed and getting into the top five is basically three PPG. So if we get that incremental improvement it isn't going to be enough to make a material difference in Wins and Losses. That material difference needs to come from the offense.
Look, in Graham I Trust. He will take the parts he has, scheme it up, and keep us in nearly every game. And then it's up to the offense...
We have to talk about how the OFFENSE is gonna SUCK this year! Because it SUCKED last year and couldn't possibly be better this year!
If we don't keep our eye on the ball, we'll be lettin the team down, or somethin'. No talking about the defense!
Get it?
As usual, another poster who makes things up because he can't read. RIF.
I never said the offense can't get better and improve. I said that's where the success of the season actually hinges, not on the defense.
You stink. The offense is a “massive problem” get real. Would the Golladay money have been better spent on OL? Would our first round pick have been better spent on an OL?
We improved on both sides of the ball. the offense certainly is the weaker side of the football for us, but a “massive problem” … cant wait until you’re raving about our offense next year.
Yes, we have added more parts. There was no other choice after years of incompetent roster construction.
But until we see the offense actually perform, everything is on paper; and it's still the biggest problem until proven otherwise. So I'm not subscribing to your crystal ball service.
And all of us are crossing our fingers and hoping the decision makers got this right sticking with the same constituent parts on this OL. That is a big, big gamble.
I still disagree with the notion that our defense is good enough - maybe it is with an average offense (which is what you are alluding to), but it could also be dominant if the things align right and that allows the offense to play loose and not press so much. It also creates shorter fields for the offense, and hopefully, more opportunities to play with a lead.
I see nothing wrong with trying to build an elite unit and when you factor in that we couldn't upgrade everything in 1 offseason, I think this was a sound strategy.
While most of the comments here addressed how good Graham's comments were--and they were and are--I was more struck by Ranaan's scoop from an NFL coach that 'every team's' scheme on offense was to attack CB2, opposite Bradbury. This obviously wasn't lost on the coaching staff and FO, and good for them in addressing it head on. Let's hope AJ can stay on the field.
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You’re very wrong. The defense was solid but the second CB spot literally cost the Giants at least two wins last season. Go back and re-watch the first Eagles and Cowboys game. Late in the 4th quarter of both games the QB threw a deep Hail Mary type of pass that was completed versus Ryan Lewis, one of which Lewis fell down. Both plays would have been easily prevented by Jackson or Aaron Robinson. Either of those plays would have resulted in a win and a playoff spot.
Patrick Graham did a masterful job last season but it’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to do it again without an infusion of talent on defense. Losing Tomlinson was disappointing but Danny Shelton will be a suitable replacement. The defense should be even better this season with the additions of Ifeadi Odenigbo, Azeez Ojulari, Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Elerson Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Reggie Ragland.
The defense still needs an established pass rusher but hopefully a few of these guys step up and becomes a consistent pass rusher. I still expect the Giants to add another pass rusher early in next years draft but I am really excited about Ojulari and Elerson Smith. Even if both players develop as hoped you can never have too many pass rushers. Of all the offseason additions I think that Odenigbo will earn the most playing time. He is probably the best OLB at setting the edge versus the run.
The first Dallas game was a struggle for the entire defense. It was strange game with Prescott going down and Dalton coming in for relief. But every good defense has a few games a season where they can't get off the field. The irony of that Dallas game is we actually scored a ton of points for a change.
Uh, I'm not sure what Eagles/Giants game you were watching, but we didn't lose that game due to corner play. We lost the game because Engram couldn't convert a crucial third down pass that would have put the game away. And when down by one with about 40 second to go, the OL got called for holding and then Jones fumbled.
And let's pump the brakes on Aaron Robinson. Proclaiming a guy who hasn't played a minute of an NFL game as someone who would have made a play in an actual game is pretty silly.
My point is the defense doesn't need to be that much better to get us into the playoffs because they are already a playoff caliber difference. The difference between being the 9th best team in PPG allowed and getting into the top five is basically three PPG. So if we get that incremental improvement it isn't going to be enough to make a material difference in Wins and Losses. That material difference needs to come from the offense.
Look, in Graham I Trust. He will take the parts he has, scheme it up, and keep us in nearly every game. And then it's up to the offense...
The defense folded in that last six minutes of the Eagles game and has just as much to blame. We had the game in hand, but a lot of shit happened that put the Eagles in good position to take advantage.
Some of that was on Ryan Lewis; illegal contact negating a sack by B.J. Hill, then he surrendered 59 yards to Hightower on the very next play that sets up the Eagles at the 14-yard line. Harper gets beaten by Greg Ward for a touchdown, then adds insult to injury via unnecessary roughness. Harper gets burned again for 30 yards later on. Bradberry and Ryan get penalties, then Peppers got beaten for the game-winning touchdown.
Our D was respectable in '20. It has potential to be great in '21.
Great >>> respectable
Our D was respectable in '20. It has potential to be great in '21.
Great >>> respectable
Well, I personally feel that I'm not really going to be set with the defense until we have a guy or two who can consistently play the run and pass rush off the edge. Right now I'm hoping that guys like Odenigbo (if we choose to re-sign him), Ojulari, and Smith can provide an answer.
If you want to get forensic about why the Giants didn’t make the playoffs, you really should start with the 4 games the Giants scored 10 or fewer points, and the 8 games the Giants scored 20 or fewer points.
The Giants have a good defense. They have an excellent, talented secondary, two stand out defensive lineman, and a premium middle linebacker. They just drafted arguably the most talented pure edge rusher in the draft.
I get the sense of the Giants if the Giants had picked Ojulari in the first round and not the second this wouldn’t be such a debate.
The defense folded in that last six minutes of the Eagles game and has just as much to blame. We had the game in hand, but a lot of shit happened that put the Eagles in good position to take advantage.
Some of that was on Ryan Lewis; illegal contact negating a sack by B.J. Hill, then he surrendered 59 yards to Hightower on the very next play that sets up the Eagles at the 14-yard line. Harper gets beaten by Greg Ward for a touchdown, then adds insult to injury via unnecessary roughness. Harper gets burned again for 30 yards later on. Bradberry and Ryan get penalties, then Peppers got beaten for the game-winning touchdown.
We were up 21-10 and those plays did happen as you described. But it's all very likely moot if Engram makes the catch on 3rd and 6.
That was the epitome of a team loss. So I'm not going to pin the loss on just Lewis. The other team's players get paid, too. And the Eagles made plays.
Our D was respectable in '20. It has potential to be great in '21.
Great >>> respectable
Who said adding another quality corner is a bad thing? If Jackson is that answer, fine.
And I know most of you can keep resisting the idea, but you don't need a great D to win in today's NFL. You need an opportunistic D that gives up FGs instead of TDs and is pretty good on third down.
In fact, I would argue it's the side of the ball where you should spend least amount of cap dollars. Target dollars on corners and pass rush, and look for versatility, size and speed everywhere else.
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We have to talk about how the OFFENSE is gonna SUCK this year! Because it SUCKED last year and couldn't possibly be better this year!
If we don't keep our eye on the ball, we'll be lettin the team down, or somethin'. No talking about the defense!
Get it?
As usual, another poster who makes things up because he can't read. RIF.
I never said the offense can't get better and improve. I said that's where the success of the season actually hinges, not on the defense.
My apologies if I misrepresented your thoughts, but it's not that I "can't read". It's that I choose to not read certain posts very carefully. Only so much time in the day.
I think everyone agrees that the offense has by far the most room to improve. But it's a team game and if the D can go from good to great, it will help the whole team.
A better D that gets off the field more consistently on 3rd down, will lead to better field position for the O. A great D will hold a lead late in the 4th Q.
A great D will lead to more wins than a pretty good D.
Between the cold, wind and sometimes rain and snow of an outdoor stadium in a swamp off the Atlantic Ocean...defense is precious to the narrow margins of NFC East football in many seasons.
Improving the D and special teams is far more a difference in our situation than the dismissive speculation that it's only worth three points.
Among other things, a better defense translates to more chances for the offense in better field positions.
Does improving the offense matter? Sure it does. Did we? Probably
Nothing is easier than negative speculation about 53 participants in a complex game in a 50/50 league.
Exactly. The Giants aren’t a playoff team with Yiadom getting 600 snaps.
It’s a passing league. Pass and stop the pass.
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was clear as day watching Baker Mayfield put on a clinic chewing up the NYG secondary last season when Bradberry missed the game due to Covid protocols.
I think Mayfield set a Browns record for completion percentage and led team on a few epic drives that put this game away early. He played pitch and catch with his guys and exposed a bunch of guys in the bradberry-less Secondary fairly easily.
Plus it really showed how behind Devonte Downs was. He really blew the coverage on that first touchdown.
Yeah, Downs is not a good player. Re-signed this past spring but at least someone had the good common sense to only give $75K in guaranteed dollars which tells you everything you need to know.
This thread has a lot of folks puffing out their chests over a silly battle of wills as to what is more important - offense or defense. When the obvious point is they both are, although the NYG Offense is lagging way too far behind in keeping up its end of the bargain...
Who said not having quality corners wasn't important?
By the end of the year, however, this defense under Graham had grown into a playoff caliber defense. Over the last 8 games we were giving up 19PPG. And that would easily put as a top five defense in the league in PPG allowed.
Having talent is important, but having a coach who can scheme it up and get players to buy in is more important. And that's what we have in Graham.
Uh, I'm not sure what Eagles/Giants game you were watching, but we didn't lose that game due to corner play. We lost the game because Engram couldn't convert a crucial third down pass that would have put the game away. And when down by one with about 40 second to go, the OL got called for holding and then Jones fumbled.
And let's pump the brakes on Aaron Robinson. Proclaiming a guy who hasn't played a minute of an NFL game as someone who would have made a play in an actual game is pretty silly.
My point is the defense doesn't need to be that much better to get us into the playoffs because they are already a playoff caliber difference. The difference between being the 9th best team in PPG allowed and getting into the top five is basically three PPG. So if we get that incremental improvement it isn't going to be enough to make a material difference in Wins and Losses. That material difference needs to come from the offense.
Look, in Graham I Trust. He will take the parts he has, scheme it up, and keep us in nearly every game. And then it's up to the offense...
I remember that game well and yes the Giants win if Engram catches that pass but to say that corner play wasn’t the reason the Giants lost is one of the most absurd things you’ve said on this board. Lewis literally gave up a decisive deep pass that lead to the winning score.
I remember that game well and yes the Giants win if Engram catches that pass but to say that corner play wasn’t the reason the Giants lost is one of the most absurd things you’ve said on this board. Lewis literally gave up a decisive deep pass that lead to the winning score.
That long play allowed by Lewis was on the series prior when the Giants were up 21-10.
The last series was a long pass to the Eagle TE Rodgers. And that was on a broken play where Wentz was rolling out and threw back across the field...