I'm quite embarrassed to post this, but after seeing BestFeature's thread I figured I would give it a shot and see what comes of it. I'm happy to discuss the topic in detail with anyone and everyone via email.
Long story short, I'm looking for a corporate/transactional, in-house or compliance associate position here in NYC (Manhattan would be ideal) or remotely. The problem is that the bulk of my post-graduate experience (I graduated in 2017) has been in litigation, but to be perfectly frank, I really don't enjoy it and it was never my intention to be a litigator. I would really like to focus my career in corporate/transactional law and would even consider an entry-level/junior position if it was the right opportunity. Right now, I'm doing contract/compliance work on a per-project basis. The pay is okay, but it's rather inconsistent and unstable and it offers no benefits, so I'm looking for something full-time and long-term.
I would be truly grateful for any and all leads and assistance. Thanks in advance!
Yeah, I'm in touch with headhunters/recruiters, but the issue is that they work on behalf of firms/companies and they look for candidates with a certain amount of experience or who graduated from certain law schools.
Our website says it can be done remotely.
this is for a tech company.
Our website says it can be done remotely.
this is for a tech company.
Sure, definitely willing to find out more about the company and the role! Feel free to shoot me an email. Appreciate it, PJ.
Just finished my first week. While this isn’t the type of work you’re exactly looking for, there are jobs out there right now. I have friends in other areas and there are openings galore.
Keep your name out there. Frankly, it looks like you’re on the right track. BBI can be a great resource at times!
Someone with your wit will do very well in interviews.
It will work out. As my father used to say, ״You only need to find one job”.
JP Morgan job openings. - ( New Window )
Someone with your wit will do very well in interviews.
It will work out. As my father used to say, ״You only need to find one job”.
JP Morgan job openings. - ( New Window )
I would love to work for JP Morgan or any banking institution really, but they all require some sort of experience, which I don't have. Many of these places are simply not willing to invest the time and resources to train you.
Yeah, LinkedIn is the resource I use the most. I've applied to hundreds upon hundreds of jobs throughout the last few months and I have gotten some interviews out of it, but more often than not it seems as if I'm just thrown into the pile with everyone else applying. LinkedIn is rather impersonal.
Also, check out Axiom Law in NYC as they have a lot of opportunities for project based legal work.
Good luck.
Appreciate the suggestion, but I'd really like to stick to law (or working for the Giants or Rangers :P) at the moment.
Tax work isn’t easy and a lot of lawyers are afraid of any type of quantitative thinking, but there’s a lot of nice jobs out there for people who are willing and able to do that kind of work. Even PWC and EY national office M&A and international groups hire heavily from the program and many of the classes are taught by biglaw partners who have connedctikns all over the city.
Good luck.
Also, check out Axiom Law in NYC as they have a lot of opportunities for project based legal work.
Good luck.
Interesting that you mention them I applied for a corporate finance role with them. Seemed interesting.
Also, check out Axiom Law in NYC as they have a lot of opportunities for project based legal work.
Good luck.
Thanks for the advice and yeah, I check Axiom regularly.
It's funny because I'm only 4 years removed from law school and I've already been labeled a litigator, which was never my intention. I guess I got some bad advice, but everything I've done up until this point has been means to an end to eventually go in-house. I clerked for a NYS judge because I thought it would look great on my resume (and it does). I then worked for a litigation firm, but that was mainly to attain legal skills (like negotiation, legal writing, etc.) to help me in other facets of the law in the future. It was never ever my intention to pursue and eventually settle in on a career in litigation. I was an IP concentration (soft IP) and that's what I always saw myself ending up: working for a firm doing copyright and trademark law until I got enough experience to either become partner or, ideally, move in-house.
Tax work isn’t easy and a lot of lawyers are afraid of any type of quantitative thinking, but there’s a lot of nice jobs out there for people who are willing and able to do that kind of work. Even PWC and EY national office M&A and international groups hire heavily from the program and many of the classes are taught by biglaw partners who have connedctikns all over the city.
Good luck.
I've considered that, but I have no background in tax, as it never seemed quite interesting to me. I remember my classmates in law school would always about how boring tax law was and how all it was was essentially knowing the US Tax Code backwards and forwards.
But I have considered getting an LLM in like IP or something transactional in nature. The two issues with that, though are the costs (you'd be surprised how much you have to pay for a year of LLM studies, even if it's all done online) and the time investment, as I want to work full-time and needless to say, the work hours of a lawyer are very heavy. I don't mind necessarily going back to school and I do have a bit saved up, but my first choice would be to earn money and get valuable on-the-ground, hands-on experience under a mentor or a training program.
Someone suggested this week that I should take the test and get certified as a Information Privacy Professional, which I had never even heard of. I'll probably end up doing that.
You mentioned you are doing contract work. I don't know if they have contract work available for the corporate transactional stuff you are looking for, but that would obviously be a good way to get some experience
They do and often I've had to teach myself how to draft certain types of contracts and agreements, but the pay is inconsistent and there are no benefits. It's better than nothing, but I really need a FT, stable position.
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You mentioned you are doing contract work. I don't know if they have contract work available for the corporate transactional stuff you are looking for, but that would obviously be a good way to get some experience
They do and often I've had to teach myself how to draft certain types of contracts and agreements, but the pay is inconsistent and there are no benefits. It's better than nothing, but I really need a FT, stable position.
Understood, but you are doing the right thing by getting at least contract experience in the area that you are looking at. You can at least have the experience on your resume, and sometimes I've heard of contract work leading to permanent positions. Good luck with everything.
Feel free to email me imthatguybbi@gmail and I'll see what I can do
In house in life sciences as well so take this for what it’s fourth, going in house is tough and litigation really isn’t the general skill set. If you can find yourself in employment litigation that would help, but for the most party you need to be transactional or in my industry regulatory (tuna can probably attest there). If it’s a public ally traded company there are always opening for securities attorneys as well.
But then after I graduated law school and some of my classmates got jobs at banking and financial institutions like JP Morgan, HSBC, Morgan Stanley, etc., I became quite interested. They would talk about how much they loved it, how they were compensated well (with great benefits) and reasonable hours...It sounded so appealing that I started doing some research into compliance roles and even attended a few events at the City Bar to find out more. And now? Even though I haven't had a FT role in compliance, I could easily see myself carving out a career in it.
BTW, thanks for the response, ImThatGuy. I emailed you.
2. The IP thing is very true. I wasn't 100% committed to going to law school after college (I created a thread about it back in 2013. I still have the BBI Law School Advice thread saved. I can copy and paste it here in case anyone is interested. A lot of people gave great advice). But here's the funny thing about IP: in order to practice traditional IP (notably patents), you have to have an undergraduate degree in a field of science. I was always more of a humanities/social studies type of person (English and History) and always assumed that majoring in a science was for the future scientists and pre-med students of the world. Had I known what IP TRULY entailed, I would've majored in biology. No question.
As I mentioned, I was an IP concentration in law school and I do love IP and sports and entertainment law (in an ideal world, that's what I would be doing), but as you said BHill, copyright and trademark are more niche and specialized. More often than not they fall under the umbrella of general IP, which includes the practice of patent law, which are practiced by the aforementioned science majors, so those science majors will not only practice patent law, but copyright and trademark as well. Not always, but many times.
But it would only be a stepping stone. Never stick at the big 4 too long. They run you ragged. I've poached some of their staff since going to the private sector.
But it would only be a stepping stone. Never stick at the big 4 too long. They run you ragged. I've poached some of their staff since going to the private sector.
Unfortunately, no. I have no experience at all in tax law. Never even took a class in tax law in law school. I mentioned it earlier, but it never appealed to me and I heard horror stories about tax law despite it being extremely lucrative.
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Do you do anything around Taxes or Accounting in general? I haven't read the whole thread. We used to hire a lot of lawyers at EY when I was there. The big 4 definitely hires tax lawyers.
But it would only be a stepping stone. Never stick at the big 4 too long. They run you ragged. I've poached some of their staff since going to the private sector.
Unfortunately, no. I have no experience at all in tax law. Never even took a class in tax law in law school. I mentioned it earlier, but it never appealed to me and I heard horror stories about tax law despite it being extremely lucrative.
Gotcha. It's definitely a tough field and can be extremely time consuming.
They also use lawyers on their consulting/adviosry side. I believe they focus more on corporate policies and litigation. Might not hurt to check out the big 4 sites.
Well, best of luck to you in your search.
I support your decision not to go into an area (tax law) that does not interest you.
I think you already have enough education. First find a job you like. Then get any supplemental training/education.
Place is called Davis Polk. Check out their career section and let me know if anything looks intriguing to you.
Place is called Davis Polk. Check out their career section and let me know if anything looks intriguing to you.
That is a great prestigious firm and congrats to your niece
Anakin,
What you are going through happens to approx 80% of lawyers within their first 5 years. You are labeled as a litigator because you are one….firms cannot bill you out as a 5th year corporate attorney Bc you have no experience and they won’t understand hire you as a first year corporate associate (and salary) as history has shown it doesn’t work in the firm business model and also creates bitterness.
You need to find your next path towards what you want to be and possibly take intermediate steps to get there. A law degree is a great degree to have as it shows analytical thinking and problem solving. Stay patient and focused on the long game.
Place is called Davis Polk. Check out their career section and let me know if anything looks intriguing to you.
Thanks for the advice. As mentioned above, Davis Polk is a fantastic, prestigious firm and you should be very proud of your niece. If I had to venture a guess, your niece attended a top-20, if not top-10 law school and did extremely well there. Unfortunately, the Davis Polks of the world will not even look at alumni from my school unless they were truly established and at the top of their profession. For a somewhat new attorney like me, there's a 99% chance they wouldn't even consider me given where I went to law school.
But I appreciate the offer.
Just sent it today from my aol account
if you have any questions about the company or the role (I'm not in legal but I work with them all the time) - just reply back pjcas18@aol.com
Connections are much more important than where you went to school. And he's literally offering you one.
Also I found a bunch of people who went to your law school at Davis Polk in <3 minutes.
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the perks from that place i heard are awesome and seems very down to earth.
Place is called Davis Polk. Check out their career section and let me know if anything looks intriguing to you.
That is a great prestigious firm and congrats to your niece
Anakin,
What you are going through happens to approx 80% of lawyers within their first 5 years. You are labeled as a litigator because you are one….firms cannot bill you out as a 5th year corporate attorney Bc you have no experience and they won’t understand hire you as a first year corporate associate (and salary) as history has shown it doesn’t work in the firm business model and also creates bitterness.
You need to find your next path towards what you want to be and possibly take intermediate steps to get there. A law degree is a great degree to have as it shows analytical thinking and problem solving. Stay patient and focused on the long game.
Appreciate the advice and yeah, it sucks to be labeled a litigator so early in my career. It's why I'm okay with essentially starting from scratch and taking an entry-level or junior position.
People actually like helping others - not me, but other people - use that to your advantage and figure out if you can help them too.
Connections are much more important than where you went to school. And he's literally offering you one.
Also I found a bunch of people who went to your law school at Davis Polk in <3 minutes.
It's worth a shot, but I just know BigLaw tend to go for attorneys who went to Top-20 law schools. It's an antiquated way of doing things, but that's the reality.
But I would appreciate the help, GMan4Life
I support your decision not to go into an area (tax law) that does not interest you.
I think you already have enough education. First find a job you like. Then get any supplemental training/education.
Thanks, Marty. I still remember one of the sage advice you gave me: the only Latin I needed to know was subpoena duces tecum, res judicata and res ipsa... Haha
What about the attorney from your floor? Haha, now THAT was an experience.
Connections are much more important than where you went to school. And he's literally offering you one.
Also I found a bunch of people who went to your law school at Davis Polk in <3 minutes.
I dealt with what Anak is going through now and it just zaps your confidence. I went to a good school but otherwise my resume was broken and last time I was without a job for 6 months and got lucky that my current role fell in my lap. But I had four companies I interviewed with in those 6 months and two of them I got through connections. Anyway, I felt about as low as you can be and my confidence was shot. I applied to a bunch of analyst roles at a company that I worked at pre-MBA that were entirely beneath my background and didn't get one interview. The experience I had makes me empathize with Anak and understand why he's gun shy about even applying to a prestigious law firm. BTW, this experience at this current role has been very good for me and really upped my confidence. I think the same will happen to Anak after his next role.
Anak, I think your experience illustrates a greater point in which strong determinant factors of your career are set earlier than you'd otherwise expect. I recall your posts regarding college (I believe you once considered Rutgers?) and law school and you received a good amount of advice. By my understanding you took that advice to heart, worked your ass off, and earned a law degree from a well-respected school. While impressive, there are annual classes of similarly talented graduates from Top-20 schools. It's a factory.
It's difficult to comprehend that at the beginning of your studies but the reality at the culmination. My hope is that you're not type-caste as a litigator and your persistence, motivation, and people skills can help lift you towards the roles you covet.
Anak, I think your experience illustrates a greater point in which strong determinant factors of your career are set earlier than you'd otherwise expect. I recall your posts regarding college (I believe you once considered Rutgers?) and law school and you received a good amount of advice. By my understanding you took that advice to heart, worked your ass off, and earned a law degree from a well-respected school. While impressive, there are annual classes of similarly talented graduates from Top-20 schools. It's a factory.
It's difficult to comprehend that at the beginning of your studies but the reality at the culmination. My hope is that you're not type-caste as a litigator and your persistence, motivation, and people skills can help lift you towards the roles you covet.
Thanks. Hindsight being 20/20 there are certainly many things that I wish I knew at the time and if I had to do things a bit differently, I would have. I suppose that's part of the human experience, but I'm looking towards the future and all I need is an opportunity to prove myself and take the ball and run with it.
That's the thing. Yeah, it's a bit of a defeatist mindset, but I'm also being realistic.
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it's akin to saying I want to go to Villanova and got waitlisted but but my neighbor went to Harvard and will write a letter of recommendation. That being said, shoot your shot Anak...nothing to lose and you have the right mindset.
That's the thing. Yeah, it's a bit of a defeatist mindset, but I'm also being realistic.
Every pessimist is a realist if you know what I mean.