Seems to me those who think he's a no-brainer HoFer are pretty spot on. UCONN sounds like he has a personal issue with Carmelo. Weird takes all over the place.
Well, UConn thinks he's overrated & someone called him a 'Fake NBA Superstar'. To UConn's credit, he knows he's a HOFer. I can't speak to the other poster.
Yeah but who is overrating him? No one. He is what he is - a HOF scorer. What's wrong with that?
UCONN is saying he's overrated. By whom?
yeah, like I said people saying a player is overrated
often have a false sense of where people rate the person they are talking about. Carmelo is a top 10-12 scorer. As an overall player probably not top 50. A player like a Pippen is a better player imo. Yet when Jordan was gone, Pippen wasn’t winning titles. It’s possible to acknowledge Carmelo’s accomplishments, but understand that he’s not putting a team on his hands and leading them to a championship. Very few players in NBA history have
Pippen was a much better player than Melo. Scottie is probably top 35 or so all time. The one full year MJ was retired from Bulls-'93-'94, Scottie was a beast. I think he finished 3rd overall in the MVP. Also, Scottie was amazing on defense. I hated those Bulls teams, but they were insanely good.
2020 LaMelo Ball - New Orleans Pelicans
2019 RJ Barrett, Duke – New York Knicks
2018 Luka Doncic, Slovenia – Dallas Mavericks
2017 Jayson Tatum, Duke – Boston Celtics
2016 Jaylen Brown, California – Boston Celtics
2015 Jahlil Okafor, Duke – Philadelphia 76ers
2014 Joel Embiid, Kansas – Philadelphia 76ers
2013 Otto Porter, Georgetown – Washington Wizards
2012 Bradley Beal, Florida – Washington Wizards
2011 Enes Kanter, Kentucky – Utah Jazz
2010 Derrick Favors, Georgia Tech – New Jersey Nets
2000’s
2009 James Harden, Arizona State – Oklahoma City Thunder
2008 O.J. Mayo, USC – Minnesota Timberwolves
2007 Al Horford, Florida – Atlanta Hawks
2006 Adam Morrison, Gonzaga – Charlotte Bobcats
2005 Deron Williams, Illinois – Utah Jazz
2004 Ben Gordon, Connecticut – Chicago Bulls
2003 Carmelo Anthony, Syracuse – Denver Nuggets
2002 Mike Dunleavy, Duke – Golden State Warriors
2001 Pau Gasol, Spain – Atlanta Hawks
2000 Darius Miles, East St. Louis HS (Mo.) – L.A. Clippers
1990’s
1999 Baron Davis, UCLA – Charlotte Hornets
1998 Raef LaFrentz, Kansas – Denver Nuggets
1997 Chauncey Billups, Colorado – Boston Celtics
1996 Shareef Abdur-Rahim, California – Vancouver Grizzlies
1995 Jerry Stackhouse, North Carolina – Philadelphia 76ers
1994 Grant Hill, Duke – Detroit Pistons
1993 Anfernee Hardaway, Memphis – Golden State Warriors
1992 Christian Laettner, Duke – Minnesota Timberwolves
1991 Billy Owens, Syracuse – Sacramento Kings
1990 Chris Jackson, Louisiana State – Denver Nuggets
NONE of those guys are leading an NBA team to a championship without significant help - something Melo never had. And Melo is probably #3 or #4 out of the 31 guys listed - Doncic, Embiid and Harden could be argued as better players than Melo - maybe, if they play 18+ years.
So, I say “fake NBA superstar” and the response is that Melo never played with another great player? I guess that’s fair. But my *point* is that Melo could only ever be that second or third piece to a championship. Melo scored a lot of points. That’s pretty much it. Did he ever make the other players around him better? No. Was he a complete player? Never.
When he came to the Knicks, I didn’t think for one second that he would be the player to finally win a title for the Knicks. And he wasn’t. And wasn’t the missing piece anywhere else he played.
Ball in the bucket? Yup. Basketball HOF. No question. Great NBA player? I don’t think so.
the #10 scorer in history - soon to be #9 - isn't GREAT. You have to be one of the best players on the PLANET to reach that. I mean, Rodman rebounded and played defense. He didn't score. But he was GREAT at what he did and an all-time NBA player. Rodman is a HOF'er - Is he not considered GREAT? He also had amazing pieces around him like Jordan, Pippen, Laimbeer, Thomas, etc.
Melo never had that luxury. You could count on two hands the number of players in NBA history who were "complete" players - whatever that is, meaning they did absolutely everything at the highest level. The nitpicking with Melo is pretty lame. If anything, Melo is unlucky to never have a particularly great team to play for.
and he has a lot of points because he played for a long time. He's been in the NBA since he was 19. On a PPG basis, I'm not sure he's in the top 25-30.
But that doesn't make him a great basketball player, IMV. He was a subpar passer, an ordinary rebounder, and subpar defender.
If you like to watch guys shoot a lot so he can score a lot, Melo is you guy.
and he has a lot of points because he played for a long time. He's been in the NBA since he was 19. On a PPG basis, I'm not sure he's in the top 25-30.
But that doesn't make him a great basketball player, IMV. He was a subpar passer, an ordinary rebounder, and subpar defender.
If you like to watch guys shoot a lot so he can score a lot, Melo is you guy.
The volume of scoring is undeniable and I actually think there's some traction with the comparison to Rodman who was also one dimensional. It's not a perfect comparison, Rodman was obvious a champion and while he certainly had a lot of baggage off the court I don't know that Rodman ever brought down his team. But, okay. Tbh, I'm always surprised when I see where Melo ranks in the history of the NBA. Not my kind of player, I think he's a complier, I think he's selfish and, to me at least, he never was a legit superstar. But, yeah, I guess the points alone make his career great.
I'll also stipulate that Melo for me, is just another piece of fools gold in an endless vein of disappointing and worthless nuggets mined by the hapless Knicks franchise.
Whatever bud. Van Hoosen is a career criminal currently serving 16 years. Fine was - and is - an incredible embarrassment to the university and a blight on the athletic department. But that doesn't mean he's a criminal, just a freak in a weird marriage who made some fucked up decisions bc he's a weirdo.
Having been involved with Syracuse athletics for many years, there are plenty of tremendously ridiculous fuck ups they've made - Bernie Fine isn't one of them.
I mean, look how they just handled the Scanlon situation. Look how they handled Title 9. The Pasqualoni firing. AD Gross hiring. Mark Coyle. That disgusting witch Nancy Cantor and her filthy fingerprints on Cuse sports and culture. Have fun with her at Rutgers.
The list goes on and on. Dysfunctional is an understatement. Ever since the progressive arm of the board forced Crouthamel out, it's been a Fucking disaster.
Point is, they've done more harm than good over the last two decades. But keep being a Chickenhawk smart ass who knows next to nothing.
They won 17 games the year before he was drafted
Than
03/04 43-39
04/05. 49-33
05/06. 44-38
06/07. 45-37
07/08. 50-32
08/09. 54-28
09/10. 53-29
10/11. 50-32
All he did was win with no talent around him
Came to the Knicks and did the same.
I understand he is just a player that people love to hate on.
He is a HOFer and a great player.
This is not a player that piled stats on losing teams.
Also he was pretty damn clutch.
Same he never got to play with a good team in his prime.
With a good team, or did he care about being the leading scorer and controlling the ball? I don’t think it was my choice he played with no stars.
And this also raises a good point. People hammer star athletes for not winning championships, such as Carmelo, Durant, Chris Paul, Lilliard. Then they join up with other stars to form super teams (because let’s face it, that’s what everyone does since Lebron), and fans rip on them. Can’t have it both ways.
who still have no idea what went down with lin and the knicks and it had nothing to do with melo..
Knicks told him go get an offer, he was a restrocted free agent, and they will match it..he went got an offer and his agent gave it to knicks and they said perfect we will match, he then went back to Houston and got a poisen pill contact, which melo called a ridiculous contract, he wasnt saying because it was lin, he said it becausr the contact was ridiculous..
also lin then went on to be mediocre and knicks won 54 games, lin was also coming off the playoffs where he refused to play even though the entire backcourt was hurt
he carried the nuggets in the western conference and made the playoffs every single tear, they lost in the playoffs to the spurs and lakers...the only time they were favored was against utah and george karl wasnt coaching..
also the knicks fucked him, the plan was melo, stat and chris paul or tony parker but the knicks signed chandler instead and fucked everything up and stat got hurt
No one from the Cuse can do any wrong, not even Bernie Fine.
Do you even know the Bernie Fine story?? On any other prominent team, he'd likely have still bee on the sidelines coaching.
The accusations were false - but that doesn't matter to many because all they hear about are the initial reports. Anyone in and around syracuse or the program knows what happened.
With a good team, or did he care about being the leading scorer and controlling the ball? I don’t think it was my choice he played with no stars.
He did and the Knicks never delivered.
He left Denver on the promise the Knicks would bring additional talent around him.
He spent his first 13 years on 2 teams with zero talent around him.
The Carmelo example and the way he is thought of by much of
The Knicks fan base is the precise reason stars have wanted no part of coming to the Knicks. First off we have sucked at building true deep contending teams. Add in the way superstars that don't deliver a championships are treated almost like bums in this town why would they want to come? Melo played his heart out here, was surrounded by a bunch of role players at best and yet is looked at by so many as a failure. Heck you have people who still say he's nothing but a compiler, when his back probably is still sore from carrying Syracuse to that championship as a freshman. Listen at times Patrick Ewing was his own worst enemy public relations wise due to his public shyness and never getting past that Hoya paranoia John Thompson instilled there. However look how he was viewed here as an ultimate failure by so many because he didn't deliver a ring when this franchise hasn't so much as made a 3rd round without him since 1973. Hopefully Thibs and the roster construction and flexibility will change that now but what star wanted to sign up for coming here under the mandate of win a title or you're a bum when they could go to multiple other places for the same $?
I'd bet anything that Carmelo is far from the only
He did and the Knicks never delivered.
He left Denver on the promise the Knicks would bring additional talent around him.
He spent his first 13 years on 2 teams with zero talent around him.
By forcing a mid-year trade rather than waiting for free agency at year end, he killed the Knicks ability to do that. They gave up draft picks and all their young talent to make the deal. Carmelo was able to get a few million more by forcing a trade, but sacrificed having talent around him.
He did and the Knicks never delivered.
He left Denver on the promise the Knicks would bring additional talent around him.
He spent his first 13 years on 2 teams with zero talent around him.
By forcing a mid-year trade rather than waiting for free agency at year end, he killed the Knicks ability to do that. They gave up draft picks and all their young talent to make the deal. Carmelo was able to get a few million more by forcing a trade, but sacrificed having talent around him.
they didnt have the cap space, the only young puece they gave up was Gallo..
felton came back, chandler would not have been a knick long term and mosgov was nothing..
they gave TWO 1sts and a pick swap..
where the knicks messed was using the amnesty on billups and signing chandler..
knicks had plenty of maneuverability after the melo trade but they blew their load on chandler
Absolutely.
He forced the trade it NY and reupped that they would build around him but they never did.
They made bad decisions on coaches and players.
They wasted his prime years
they didnt have the cap space, the only young puece they gave up was Gallo..
felton came back, chandler would not have been a knick long term and mosgov was nothing..
they gave TWO 1sts and a pick swap..
where the knicks messed was using the amnesty on billups and signing chandler..
knicks had plenty of maneuverability after the melo trade but they blew their load on chandler
Absolutely.
He forced the trade it NY and reupped that they would build around him but they never did.
They made bad decisions on coaches and players.
They wasted his prime years
There were plenty of Point guards who wanted to play with Melo and Stat, should of went 1 more year with Billups then signed or traded for 1 the following year...
You also would of had the amnesty in your pocket for stat when he completeky broke down..
RE: The Carmelo example and the way he is thought of by much of
The Knicks fan base is the precise reason stars have wanted no part of coming to the Knicks.
Really? The Knicks *fans* are the problem? Ok…
Yes they are part of the problem, you think stars want to get booed in their homr arena?
You dont think other stars took notice of hoe Melo was treated on his way out?
No. But if you have some examples of NBA players saying they didn’t come to Knicks because of the fans, by all means, educate me. I’ll try to do better as a fan.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Carmelo example and the way he is thought of by much of
The Knicks fan base is the precise reason stars have wanted no part of coming to the Knicks.
Really? The Knicks *fans* are the problem? Ok…
Yes they are part of the problem, you think stars want to get booed in their homr arena?
You dont think other stars took notice of hoe Melo was treated on his way out?
No. But if you have some examples of NBA players saying they didn’t come to Knicks because of the fans, by all means, educate me. I’ll try to do better as a fan.
Every single player talks about the oressure of playing in new york because of the fans..
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Carmelo example and the way he is thought of by much of
The Knicks fan base is the precise reason stars have wanted no part of coming to the Knicks.
Really? The Knicks *fans* are the problem? Ok…
Yes they are part of the problem, you think stars want to get booed in their homr arena?
You dont think other stars took notice of hoe Melo was treated on his way out?
No. But if you have some examples of NBA players saying they didn’t come to Knicks because of the fans, by all means, educate me. I’ll try to do better as a fan.
Every single player talks about the oressure of playing in new york because of the fans..
Every single player? Got it. Okay, yeah, thanks man, had no idea I was a huge part of the problem. Man, every single player? We must really be horrible fans.
The media, management and to a certain extent fans handling of past players is ridiculous at times.
Most other teams would celebrate
Ewing, Stat, Melo, etc.
They came here and gave everything they had to win championships.
If Lillard doesn't win in Portland he will always be a god there
The media, management and to a certain extent fans handling of past players is ridiculous at times.
Most other teams would celebrate
Ewing, Stat, Melo, etc.
They came here and gave everything they had to win championships.
If Lillard doesn't win in Portland he will always be a god there
Maybe when he first got here, sure, there were some racist pieces of garbage that gave him a hard time. I’m not sure those were all Knicks fans, but whatever. That didn’t last for all of Ewing’s career. And I don’t know of any Knicks fans that don’t love Ewing. Starks, Anthony Mason, the Oakman, Clyde… there’s plenty of Knicks that played here in NY that fans loved and still love today. And obviously, except for the Glide, none of them won a championship.
And, sorry, but what exactly did Melo or Amar’e do to earn the adoration of NY basketball fans? Did Melo sacrifice anything to be in New York? Seriously, this guy is supposed to mean something to Knicks fans? Melo? Why?
Not sure if fans are the 'problem'. I think the problem with the Knicks was (notice the past tense) that the fish rots from the head, i.e. Dolan. If he can just sign the checks/STFU, I think the Knicks will be a destination. He's been such a clown that it's turned off countless numbers of superstars. I'm confident in where this regime is going.
As for Patrick...he's a favorite of mine, but I can't held the feeling that his career was underwhelming. When he was drafted, people were comparing him to Bill Russell. Pat had a great career, but he wasn't in the same stratosphere of Bill. Also, let's face it...Hakeem ate him lunch in the '94 Finals. The Knicks never did Ewing a favor though getting him a legit #2.
IMO, the only thing that kept Ewing from getting a ring was Jordan. I don’t think it’s fair to say the Knicks didn’t try to put everything they could around Pat. (As an aside, sort of like no Giants fan would ever root for the Eagles to win a Super Bowl, no Knicks fan that lived through the Ewing era could ever like Jordan).
As for Dolan, he’s the bottom of the barrel. But don’t forget, the Knicks haven’t won in 50 years. Dolan hasn’t been the owner all that time. I’m not excusing Dolan, he’s pure human trash, but the Knicks have been suffering longer than that wretched homunculus has owned the team.
Never rooted for those Bulls teams @ all. I hated them. But come '97, '98...I had to acknowledge that MJ was the GOAT & had to respect his greatness.
As for Ewing's sidekicks...who was his best #2 during his prime ('89-96)? I'd argue Starks. LJ & Houston came that summer of '96. I loved Starks, but he had his limitations. It's a bummer we didn't face the Bulls in the ECF in spring '97...I think the Bulls would have won, but we would have had at least a shot.
The Knicks do win it all in '93 if they get to the Finals vs. Phoenix.
Neither of them was the best player at their position in their era but both were at least top five or higher for more than a decade.
Ewing's mouth kept making playoff promises he didn't keep and there was always a team or two better than his team. Although the Charles Smith year, The Starks game 7 year and the Miami wander off the bench year were all good opportunities to win a championship and it didn't happen. That hurts his legacy. Would Mark Messier be looked at the same way in NY if the Rangers lost game 7 in 1994?
As far as Anthony goes, the Knicks gutted their team to trade for him when he would have been free to sign as a free agent a few months later. It was a potential lockout year and Anthony was concerned the new CBA could cost him a lot of money. That turned a lot of people off. I can't say I blame him potentially many multiple of millions of dollars could have been lost.
I’d have to back and look at all those teams and also who was available. But the Knicks were in the mix and it’s not like Ewing played without any talent. He had enough to win, but just couldn’t ever get everything lined up for a title. Ewing was a great Knick.
Notwithstanding the Knicks postseason advance to round 2 in 2012-2013, whenever Melo got his hands on the ball, the Knicks offense came to a screeching halt. The Denver trade should never have been made.
I’d have to back and look at all those teams and also who was available. But the Knicks were in the mix and it’s not like Ewing played without any talent. He had enough to win, but just couldn’t ever get everything lined up for a title. Ewing was a great Knick.
I'm arguing he never had a legit #2 like MJ with Pippen, Shaq with Kobe, Hakeem with Drexler in '95, Chuck with KJ, Isiah with Dumars.
Although it doesn’t surprise me. But this guy was tough to like as a Knick-he had one great year with the veterans surrounding him (aka nobody followed his lead in terms of defensive work ethic and just fed him the ball and let him score) and otherwise it was just blah. You got the sense he was much more concerned with the only thing he could do well (historically well) and nothing else.
I have a lot of respect for what Randle did this year even though he had a poor playoff showing because it’s something Melo absolutely would not have done with this roster. Randle is a leader, flawed as he may be. Melo wasn’t built that way.
I’d have to back and look at all those teams and also who was available. But the Knicks were in the mix and it’s not like Ewing played without any talent. He had enough to win, but just couldn’t ever get everything lined up for a title. Ewing was a great Knick.
I'm arguing he never had a legit #2 like MJ with Pippen, Shaq with Kobe, Hakeem with Drexler in '95, Chuck with KJ, Isiah with Dumars.
Yeah. No question. I mean, some of the examples you listed are like the best players in history. My only point was that the Knicks really tried to get the right mix of players for really all of Patrick’s career. He also had two of the best coaches the Knicks ever had. And while the Ewing era Knicks never did get that title, history might remember Gran ma ma or the Oakman or Starks or Spree or Houston or Smith or even Shimmy shimmy coco puff a little different if they had managed to win a title with Pat. Anyway, they didn’t.
Quote:
Seems to me those who think he's a no-brainer HoFer are pretty spot on. UCONN sounds like he has a personal issue with Carmelo. Weird takes all over the place.
Well, UConn thinks he's overrated & someone called him a 'Fake NBA Superstar'. To UConn's credit, he knows he's a HOFer. I can't speak to the other poster.
Yeah but who is overrating him? No one. He is what he is - a HOF scorer. What's wrong with that?
UCONN is saying he's overrated. By whom?
2019 RJ Barrett, Duke – New York Knicks
2018 Luka Doncic, Slovenia – Dallas Mavericks
2017 Jayson Tatum, Duke – Boston Celtics
2016 Jaylen Brown, California – Boston Celtics
2015 Jahlil Okafor, Duke – Philadelphia 76ers
2014 Joel Embiid, Kansas – Philadelphia 76ers
2013 Otto Porter, Georgetown – Washington Wizards
2012 Bradley Beal, Florida – Washington Wizards
2011 Enes Kanter, Kentucky – Utah Jazz
2010 Derrick Favors, Georgia Tech – New Jersey Nets
2000’s
2009 James Harden, Arizona State – Oklahoma City Thunder
2008 O.J. Mayo, USC – Minnesota Timberwolves
2007 Al Horford, Florida – Atlanta Hawks
2006 Adam Morrison, Gonzaga – Charlotte Bobcats
2005 Deron Williams, Illinois – Utah Jazz
2004 Ben Gordon, Connecticut – Chicago Bulls
2003 Carmelo Anthony, Syracuse – Denver Nuggets
2002 Mike Dunleavy, Duke – Golden State Warriors
2001 Pau Gasol, Spain – Atlanta Hawks
2000 Darius Miles, East St. Louis HS (Mo.) – L.A. Clippers
1990’s
1999 Baron Davis, UCLA – Charlotte Hornets
1998 Raef LaFrentz, Kansas – Denver Nuggets
1997 Chauncey Billups, Colorado – Boston Celtics
1996 Shareef Abdur-Rahim, California – Vancouver Grizzlies
1995 Jerry Stackhouse, North Carolina – Philadelphia 76ers
1994 Grant Hill, Duke – Detroit Pistons
1993 Anfernee Hardaway, Memphis – Golden State Warriors
1992 Christian Laettner, Duke – Minnesota Timberwolves
1991 Billy Owens, Syracuse – Sacramento Kings
1990 Chris Jackson, Louisiana State – Denver Nuggets
NONE of those guys are leading an NBA team to a championship without significant help - something Melo never had. And Melo is probably #3 or #4 out of the 31 guys listed - Doncic, Embiid and Harden could be argued as better players than Melo - maybe, if they play 18+ years.
When he came to the Knicks, I didn’t think for one second that he would be the player to finally win a title for the Knicks. And he wasn’t. And wasn’t the missing piece anywhere else he played.
Ball in the bucket? Yup. Basketball HOF. No question. Great NBA player? I don’t think so.
Melo never had that luxury. You could count on two hands the number of players in NBA history who were "complete" players - whatever that is, meaning they did absolutely everything at the highest level. The nitpicking with Melo is pretty lame. If anything, Melo is unlucky to never have a particularly great team to play for.
But that doesn't make him a great basketball player, IMV. He was a subpar passer, an ordinary rebounder, and subpar defender.
If you like to watch guys shoot a lot so he can score a lot, Melo is you guy.
But that doesn't make him a great basketball player, IMV. He was a subpar passer, an ordinary rebounder, and subpar defender.
If you like to watch guys shoot a lot so he can score a lot, Melo is you guy.
He's 27th.
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if a WNBA player fathered twins with another woman.
It's 2021. Just wait for it.
Then half the people will be like awwe right on and the other half will blame gettleman
I'll also stipulate that Melo for me, is just another piece of fools gold in an endless vein of disappointing and worthless nuggets mined by the hapless Knicks franchise.
Anyway...
Bernie Fine did nothing other than be cuckolded. At his own direction.
What an unbelievably stupid and ignorant statement. Congrats on all of your success.
Whatever bud. Van Hoosen is a career criminal currently serving 16 years. Fine was - and is - an incredible embarrassment to the university and a blight on the athletic department. But that doesn't mean he's a criminal, just a freak in a weird marriage who made some fucked up decisions bc he's a weirdo.
Having been involved with Syracuse athletics for many years, there are plenty of tremendously ridiculous fuck ups they've made - Bernie Fine isn't one of them.
I mean, look how they just handled the Scanlon situation. Look how they handled Title 9. The Pasqualoni firing. AD Gross hiring. Mark Coyle. That disgusting witch Nancy Cantor and her filthy fingerprints on Cuse sports and culture. Have fun with her at Rutgers.
The list goes on and on. Dysfunctional is an understatement. Ever since the progressive arm of the board forced Crouthamel out, it's been a Fucking disaster.
Point is, they've done more harm than good over the last two decades. But keep being a Chickenhawk smart ass who knows next to nothing.
Than
03/04 43-39
04/05. 49-33
05/06. 44-38
06/07. 45-37
07/08. 50-32
08/09. 54-28
09/10. 53-29
10/11. 50-32
All he did was win with no talent around him
Came to the Knicks and did the same.
I understand he is just a player that people love to hate on.
He is a HOFer and a great player.
This is not a player that piled stats on losing teams.
Also he was pretty damn clutch.
Same he never got to play with a good team in his prime.
That's a very good question.
And this also raises a good point. People hammer star athletes for not winning championships, such as Carmelo, Durant, Chris Paul, Lilliard. Then they join up with other stars to form super teams (because let’s face it, that’s what everyone does since Lebron), and fans rip on them. Can’t have it both ways.
Knicks told him go get an offer, he was a restrocted free agent, and they will match it..he went got an offer and his agent gave it to knicks and they said perfect we will match, he then went back to Houston and got a poisen pill contact, which melo called a ridiculous contract, he wasnt saying because it was lin, he said it becausr the contact was ridiculous..
also lin then went on to be mediocre and knicks won 54 games, lin was also coming off the playoffs where he refused to play even though the entire backcourt was hurt
also the knicks fucked him, the plan was melo, stat and chris paul or tony parker but the knicks signed chandler instead and fucked everything up and stat got hurt
Do you even know the Bernie Fine story?? On any other prominent team, he'd likely have still bee on the sidelines coaching.
The accusations were false - but that doesn't matter to many because all they hear about are the initial reports. Anyone in and around syracuse or the program knows what happened.
He did and the Knicks never delivered.
He left Denver on the promise the Knicks would bring additional talent around him.
He spent his first 13 years on 2 teams with zero talent around him.
He did and the Knicks never delivered.
He left Denver on the promise the Knicks would bring additional talent around him.
He spent his first 13 years on 2 teams with zero talent around him.
By forcing a mid-year trade rather than waiting for free agency at year end, he killed the Knicks ability to do that. They gave up draft picks and all their young talent to make the deal. Carmelo was able to get a few million more by forcing a trade, but sacrificed having talent around him.
Quote:
He did and the Knicks never delivered.
He left Denver on the promise the Knicks would bring additional talent around him.
He spent his first 13 years on 2 teams with zero talent around him.
By forcing a mid-year trade rather than waiting for free agency at year end, he killed the Knicks ability to do that. They gave up draft picks and all their young talent to make the deal. Carmelo was able to get a few million more by forcing a trade, but sacrificed having talent around him.
this is false
felton came back, chandler would not have been a knick long term and mosgov was nothing..
they gave TWO 1sts and a pick swap..
where the knicks messed was using the amnesty on billups and signing chandler..
knicks had plenty of maneuverability after the melo trade but they blew their load on chandler
felton came back, chandler would not have been a knick long term and mosgov was nothing..
they gave TWO 1sts and a pick swap..
where the knicks messed was using the amnesty on billups and signing chandler..
knicks had plenty of maneuverability after the melo trade but they blew their load on chandler
Absolutely.
He forced the trade it NY and reupped that they would build around him but they never did.
They made bad decisions on coaches and players.
They wasted his prime years
Quote:
they didnt have the cap space, the only young puece they gave up was Gallo..
felton came back, chandler would not have been a knick long term and mosgov was nothing..
they gave TWO 1sts and a pick swap..
where the knicks messed was using the amnesty on billups and signing chandler..
knicks had plenty of maneuverability after the melo trade but they blew their load on chandler
Absolutely.
He forced the trade it NY and reupped that they would build around him but they never did.
They made bad decisions on coaches and players.
They wasted his prime years
There were plenty of Point guards who wanted to play with Melo and Stat, should of went 1 more year with Billups then signed or traded for 1 the following year...
You also would of had the amnesty in your pocket for stat when he completeky broke down..
Really? The Knicks *fans* are the problem? Ok…
Quote:
The Knicks fan base is the precise reason stars have wanted no part of coming to the Knicks.
Really? The Knicks *fans* are the problem? Ok…
Yes they are part of the problem, you think stars want to get booed in their homr arena?
You dont think other stars took notice of hoe Melo was treated on his way out?
Quote:
In comment 15289759 Stu11 said:
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The Knicks fan base is the precise reason stars have wanted no part of coming to the Knicks.
Really? The Knicks *fans* are the problem? Ok…
Yes they are part of the problem, you think stars want to get booed in their homr arena?
You dont think other stars took notice of hoe Melo was treated on his way out?
No. But if you have some examples of NBA players saying they didn’t come to Knicks because of the fans, by all means, educate me. I’ll try to do better as a fan.
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In comment 15289975 trueblueinpw said:
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In comment 15289759 Stu11 said:
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The Knicks fan base is the precise reason stars have wanted no part of coming to the Knicks.
Really? The Knicks *fans* are the problem? Ok…
Yes they are part of the problem, you think stars want to get booed in their homr arena?
You dont think other stars took notice of hoe Melo was treated on his way out?
No. But if you have some examples of NBA players saying they didn’t come to Knicks because of the fans, by all means, educate me. I’ll try to do better as a fan.
Every single player talks about the oressure of playing in new york because of the fans..
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In comment 15289976 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15289975 trueblueinpw said:
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In comment 15289759 Stu11 said:
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The Knicks fan base is the precise reason stars have wanted no part of coming to the Knicks.
Really? The Knicks *fans* are the problem? Ok…
Yes they are part of the problem, you think stars want to get booed in their homr arena?
You dont think other stars took notice of hoe Melo was treated on his way out?
No. But if you have some examples of NBA players saying they didn’t come to Knicks because of the fans, by all means, educate me. I’ll try to do better as a fan.
Every single player talks about the oressure of playing in new york because of the fans..
Every single player? Got it. Okay, yeah, thanks man, had no idea I was a huge part of the problem. Man, every single player? We must really be horrible fans.
Most other teams would celebrate
Ewing, Stat, Melo, etc.
They came here and gave everything they had to win championships.
If Lillard doesn't win in Portland he will always be a god there
Most other teams would celebrate
Ewing, Stat, Melo, etc.
They came here and gave everything they had to win championships.
If Lillard doesn't win in Portland he will always be a god there
yup this
And, sorry, but what exactly did Melo or Amar’e do to earn the adoration of NY basketball fans? Did Melo sacrifice anything to be in New York? Seriously, this guy is supposed to mean something to Knicks fans? Melo? Why?
As for Patrick...he's a favorite of mine, but I can't held the feeling that his career was underwhelming. When he was drafted, people were comparing him to Bill Russell. Pat had a great career, but he wasn't in the same stratosphere of Bill. Also, let's face it...Hakeem ate him lunch in the '94 Finals. The Knicks never did Ewing a favor though getting him a legit #2.
As for Dolan, he’s the bottom of the barrel. But don’t forget, the Knicks haven’t won in 50 years. Dolan hasn’t been the owner all that time. I’m not excusing Dolan, he’s pure human trash, but the Knicks have been suffering longer than that wretched homunculus has owned the team.
As for Ewing's sidekicks...who was his best #2 during his prime ('89-96)? I'd argue Starks. LJ & Houston came that summer of '96. I loved Starks, but he had his limitations. It's a bummer we didn't face the Bulls in the ECF in spring '97...I think the Bulls would have won, but we would have had at least a shot.
The Knicks do win it all in '93 if they get to the Finals vs. Phoenix.
Ewing's mouth kept making playoff promises he didn't keep and there was always a team or two better than his team. Although the Charles Smith year, The Starks game 7 year and the Miami wander off the bench year were all good opportunities to win a championship and it didn't happen. That hurts his legacy. Would Mark Messier be looked at the same way in NY if the Rangers lost game 7 in 1994?
As far as Anthony goes, the Knicks gutted their team to trade for him when he would have been free to sign as a free agent a few months later. It was a potential lockout year and Anthony was concerned the new CBA could cost him a lot of money. That turned a lot of people off. I can't say I blame him potentially many multiple of millions of dollars could have been lost.
I'm arguing he never had a legit #2 like MJ with Pippen, Shaq with Kobe, Hakeem with Drexler in '95, Chuck with KJ, Isiah with Dumars.
I have a lot of respect for what Randle did this year even though he had a poor playoff showing because it’s something Melo absolutely would not have done with this roster. Randle is a leader, flawed as he may be. Melo wasn’t built that way.
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I’d have to back and look at all those teams and also who was available. But the Knicks were in the mix and it’s not like Ewing played without any talent. He had enough to win, but just couldn’t ever get everything lined up for a title. Ewing was a great Knick.
I'm arguing he never had a legit #2 like MJ with Pippen, Shaq with Kobe, Hakeem with Drexler in '95, Chuck with KJ, Isiah with Dumars.
Yeah. No question. I mean, some of the examples you listed are like the best players in history. My only point was that the Knicks really tried to get the right mix of players for really all of Patrick’s career. He also had two of the best coaches the Knicks ever had. And while the Ewing era Knicks never did get that title, history might remember Gran ma ma or the Oakman or Starks or Spree or Houston or Smith or even Shimmy shimmy coco puff a little different if they had managed to win a title with Pat. Anyway, they didn’t.