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NYP: Barkley faces obstacles in crucial return

Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/30/2021 8:30 am
Article from Paul Schwartz...


Saquon Barkley faces obstacles in crucial return to Giants - ( New Window )
Nothing to learn here.  
Big Blue '56 : 6/30/2021 8:39 am : link
Already discussed ad infinitum, imv..Barber’s POV is speculative, imo, as he never underwent surgery to his knee
Fiddy: Didn't Tiki get his knee scoped during/after the '97 season?  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/30/2021 8:54 am : link
Much less drastic injury, and maybe no surgery was needed. But I remember him saying that the knee injury ultimately forced him to become a more patient runner because he could no longer count on his speed.
They have to write something  
SGMen : 6/30/2021 9:05 am : link
For me, it is this simple: I believe due to Barkley's freakish physicality and work ethic, he will return and be ready for game 1. His knee injury was bad, no question, but these surgeries have improved over the decades to the point where I know guys return to form.

A healthy Barkley gives us homerun hitters at WR and RB, opening up our offense. I honestly don't know if we can win this division without a healthy Barkley. Look at D. Jones statistics with and without Barkley! He requires special attention and therefore makes everyone else better.

Because he is a hard worker who wants it, I will give Barkley the benefit of the doubt and pray he is in fact ready for the season. If he learns something from this injury about patience or whatever, so be it and that is a good thing!
I expect Barkley to be healthy enough to play.  
Marty in Albany : 6/30/2021 9:08 am : link
I think it probable that he will still be our featured RB.

I do not expect him to be "good as new." Like Tiki, I expect Barkley to compensate in other areas for any lack of speed or agility.

Regardless of his rushing yards, I am still hoping for receiving yardage of 750-1000. His receiving yardage will make a big difference for the Giants.
Tiki 'almost' had surgery on his knee...  
BamaBlue : 6/30/2021 9:15 am : link
It was during his rookie season ('97), when he tore the posterior cruciate ligament in his right knee. The Giants medical staff recommended surgery, but Tiki declined it. He missed 4 games.
I'll take an  
Dnew15 : 6/30/2021 9:17 am : link
80% SB over the combination of Gallman/Morris/Freeman.

I think I'd take a 50% SB over that combo I watched last year.
RE: Fiddy: Didn't Tiki get his knee scoped during/after the '97 season?  
Big Blue '56 : 6/30/2021 9:22 am : link
In comment 15296576 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Much less drastic injury, and maybe no surgery was needed. But I remember him saying that the knee injury ultimately forced him to become a more patient runner because he could no longer count on his speed.


Gotcha
Injury might be a blessing disguise.  
penkap75 : 6/30/2021 9:23 am : link
He might not be able to dance around for the home run hit and get stuffed for losses ala Barry Sanders. Maybe he takes whats given to him and always move fowards for positive yards ala Zeke Elliot (hate that guy, but he moves the chains).
RE: Injury might be a blessing disguise.  
UConn4523 : 6/30/2021 9:27 am : link
In comment 15296590 penkap75 said:
Quote:
He might not be able to dance around for the home run hit and get stuffed for losses ala Barry Sanders. Maybe he takes whats given to him and always move fowards for positive yards ala Zeke Elliot (hate that guy, but he moves the chains).


For sure, we definitely need more Gallman and less 50 yard TDs.
I've faced obstacles before. I think Barkley will be fine.  
Klaatu : 6/30/2021 9:32 am : link
RE: RE: Injury might be a blessing disguise.  
penkap75 : 6/30/2021 9:32 am : link
In comment 15296591 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15296590 penkap75 said:


Quote:


He might not be able to dance around for the home run hit and get stuffed for losses ala Barry Sanders. Maybe he takes whats given to him and always move fowards for positive yards ala Zeke Elliot (hate that guy, but he moves the chains).



For sure, we definitely need more Gallman and less 50 yard TDs.


I'd rather or offense be on schedule, rather then constant third and longs because someone was stuffed in the backfield trying to hit a homerun. Those 50 yard runs were great for his personal highlight reel though.
well  
UConn4523 : 6/30/2021 9:36 am : link
hard to have a conversation if you think every time Barkley is getting hit before the LOS you equate it to him "dancing" or "trying to hit a HR".

Does that happen on some runs? Sure. Is it anywhere near the frequency some on here make it? No chance. And I've seen enough of his 3-5 yard runs after getting hit behind the LOS to know this take is largely BS.
RE: well  
penkap75 : 6/30/2021 9:39 am : link
In comment 15296595 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
hard to have a conversation if you think every time Barkley is getting hit before the LOS you equate it to him "dancing" or "trying to hit a HR".

Does that happen on some runs? Sure. Is it anywhere near the frequency some on here make it? No chance. And I've seen enough of his 3-5 yard runs after getting hit behind the LOS to know this take is largely BS.


Its hard to have any football conversations here, when gatekeeping holier than though types like you automatically calls anyone who expresses an opinion different there yours BS.
While I don't necessarily agree with  
redwhiteandbigblue : 6/30/2021 9:46 am : link
the dancing in the backfield (which is very true) outweighs the home run capability, I do get the point. He actually led the league rookie year in carries for negative yards. Yeah I know, the naysayers will blame it on the OL which is partially true but it is also partially true that he is not a decisive runner like Gallman was. Gallman darted immediately to the hole and always seemed to get positive yards. Obviously not comparing Gallman to Barkleys talent.
considering I admitted that it does happen  
UConn4523 : 6/30/2021 9:46 am : link
yet not as frequently as you make it out to be, seems like i'm the one being reasonable and open to a discussion.

Like I said earlier, if you think Barkley's negative runs have more to do with "dancing" than the fact that he's basically hit right after the handoff, than i'm not sure what to tell you.
RE: While I don't necessarily agree with  
penkap75 : 6/30/2021 9:48 am : link
In comment 15296603 redwhiteandbigblue said:
Quote:
the dancing in the backfield (which is very true) outweighs the home run capability, I do get the point. He actually led the league rookie year in carries for negative yards. Yeah I know, the naysayers will blame it on the OL which is partially true but it is also partially true that he is not a decisive runner like Gallman was. Gallman darted immediately to the hole and always seemed to get positive yards. Obviously not comparing Gallman to Barkleys talent.


I was actually using Zeke Elliot as comparison for a foward running moving the chain type. I made no mention of Gallman. But Uconn who knows football better than anyone is claiming somehow I think Gallman is superior to Barkley. Than complains about how hard it is to have football conversations.. fucking moron.
RE: considering I admitted that it does happen  
Big Blue '56 : 6/30/2021 9:49 am : link
In comment 15296604 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
yet not as frequently as you make it out to be, seems like i'm the one being reasonable and open to a discussion.

Like I said earlier, if you think Barkley's negative runs have more to do with "dancing" than the fact that he's basically hit right after the handoff, than i'm not sure what to tell you.


Agreed. Most often it’s right after the handoff, imv
I have to..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 9:49 am : link
laugh when people call posters "holier-than-thou" as they spout off some happy horseshit about a professional football player making runs for his "personal highlight reel" and gets offended when called on that horrific take.
One must take extreme precaution  
ghost718 : 6/30/2021 9:57 am : link
when Gabrielle Reece is bearing down on them.
RE: RE: While I don't necessarily agree with  
UConn4523 : 6/30/2021 9:59 am : link
In comment 15296605 penkap75 said:
Quote:
In comment 15296603 redwhiteandbigblue said:


Quote:


the dancing in the backfield (which is very true) outweighs the home run capability, I do get the point. He actually led the league rookie year in carries for negative yards. Yeah I know, the naysayers will blame it on the OL which is partially true but it is also partially true that he is not a decisive runner like Gallman was. Gallman darted immediately to the hole and always seemed to get positive yards. Obviously not comparing Gallman to Barkleys talent.



I was actually using Zeke Elliot as comparison for a foward running moving the chain type. I made no mention of Gallman. But Uconn who knows football better than anyone is claiming somehow I think Gallman is superior to Barkley. Than complains about how hard it is to have football conversations.. fucking moron.


I never claimed you think Gallman is better. I mocked your original take saying youd rather have "hard yards" than 50 yard TD's. I also said Barkley has had plenty of carries that resulted in 3-5 yard gains instead of a loss.

Zeke has had the privilege to run behind a far superior OL his whole career, really not comparable situations. Here's a nice article from his rookie year which basically confirms the premise that occasionally he trys to make a big play but its a minor flaw. It also confirms that he can run up the middle and break tackles.
Barkley - ( New Window )
Why dance when you can fly  
Jimmy Googs : 6/30/2021 10:00 am : link
Barkley only needs to watch out for UFOs...



You know you've been away from football for a while  
Adam G in Big D : 6/30/2021 10:07 am : link
when you think the thread title is about Charles Barkley.
RE: considering I admitted that it does happen  
SGMen : 6/30/2021 10:12 am : link
In comment 15296604 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
yet not as frequently as you make it out to be, seems like i'm the one being reasonable and open to a discussion.

Like I said earlier, if you think Barkley's negative runs have more to do with "dancing" than the fact that he's basically hit right after the handoff, than i'm not sure what to tell you.
Barkley has two years of highlite real hits as soon as the ball gets in his hands. Often his dancing is because he never gets a chance. Never. Just creamed.
However, I do believe that this OL will be able to run block well enough right out of the gates. We may see some pass protection issues early on but not to the degree we saw last year.

I honestly believe Barkley will have his best year as far as ypc and catches go. Jones will also flourish with a run game and time plus his elite legs.
lets watch Pitt from 2020  
UConn4523 : 6/30/2021 10:26 am : link
Run 1 - hit behind LOS, tried a cut but was too late
Run 2 - hit right after handoff, couldn't dance or do anything
Run 3 - runs up the middle, no dancing
Run 4 - hit right after handoff, 6 yards behind LOS
Run 5 - hit right after handoff, 3 yard loss, no dancing

These are examples of what he faces more often than not, and more often than not he doesn't even have time to "dance". Not sure what he's supposed to do on these runs.
2020 Pitt - ( New Window )
I hope he doesn't have anymore injuries  
Fishmanjim57 : 6/30/2021 10:57 am : link
That fully explains why the franchise has been stockpiling RB's this off season.
Penkap  
redwhiteandbigblue : 6/30/2021 11:00 am : link
I did not misinterpret your comparison of Elliot by mentioning Gallman. I was merely comparing styles.

And of course you cannot compare Gallman to Barkley. Just comparing styles. I would still prefer the home run hitter as I stated.
RE: Penkap  
penkap75 : 6/30/2021 11:02 am : link
In comment 15296658 redwhiteandbigblue said:
Quote:
I did not misinterpret your comparison of Elliot by mentioning Gallman. I was merely comparing styles.

And of course you cannot compare Gallman to Barkley. Just comparing styles. I would still prefer the home run hitter as I stated.


Yes, I know you did not. I was referring to Uconn.
RE: I have to..  
penkap75 : 6/30/2021 11:06 am : link
In comment 15296607 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
laugh when people call posters "holier-than-thou" as they spout off some happy horseshit about a professional football player making runs for his "personal highlight reel" and gets offended when called on that horrific take.


I agree with you. I expect everyone to bust each others balls on a fucking football discussion site. We are not discussing nuclear physics here. But Uconn is the one who 1st bought up the inability to have meaning football conversations- while hypocritically mocking my comments and calling it BS. Thats fine and dandy, but don't be a gatekeeping bitch about it.
Stop being such a clown  
UConn4523 : 6/30/2021 11:11 am : link
you made a bad take and I responded. I responded with evidence too. What have you given me?

If you can prove Barkley mostly “dances” I’m all ears. Until then just thumb through the sources I posted and let me know what you think.
Paul Schwartz  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 6/30/2021 11:28 am : link
with great insight

It will be  
mittenedman : 6/30/2021 12:00 pm : link
interesting to see if he returns to his old form (like Adrian Peterson did) - still with the freakish speed and cutting ability.

The other route is Willis McGahee - a quick and fast college RB who tore his knee up, and reinvented himself as a powerful grinder.

IMO, Barkley does not have the physical mindset of AP or McGahee, and I'm fascinated to see what his return will look like. He could also do things those guys couldn't.

My biggest concern with him remains pass blocking. IMO, he stinks at it, and that is a tough skill to improve coming off a knee.
He still has to play on this turf...  
EricJ : 6/30/2021 12:05 pm : link
which has been called out by other teams as an injury carpet.
I have 100% faith in  
NYG22 : 6/30/2021 12:08 pm : link
medical technology w this injury these days.

And his gifts and work ethic are top notch.

I do wish he would reduce the severe air-born cuts he does.
Barkley's injury recovery is being overblown  
AdamBrag : 6/30/2021 12:35 pm : link
Coming back from an ACL tear is much easier now than it was a decade ago.

I think there's a question whether Judge will want him carrying the ball 20+ times a game or if he'll split his workload more, but, in my view, it'd be better if his workload is decreased, injury or not.
There's nothing so interesting or entertaining  
TLong : 6/30/2021 1:09 pm : link
as some guys getting off the subject of the OP to have an "Insult Duel" just between themselves.

This site is not here to provide a platform for
oversensitive or ego-driven "contributors".

Grow up or get lost.
the play calling will have alot to do with it  
gtt350 : 6/30/2021 1:12 pm : link
Barkley needs to be in motion and split wide way more
Hell split Barkley wide and put Toney in the backfield  
gtt350 : 6/30/2021 1:13 pm : link
that will drive defenses nuts
RE: There's nothing so interesting or entertaining  
UConn4523 : 6/30/2021 1:14 pm : link
In comment 15296782 TLong said:
Quote:
as some guys getting off the subject of the OP to have an "Insult Duel" just between themselves.

This site is not here to provide a platform for
oversensitive or ego-driven "contributors".

Grow up or get lost.


Why is pointing out a flawed argument “over sensitive”? I didn’t shoot from the hip, I provided some examples to support my POV and I even conceded that Barley does have work to do in the area, but it’s completely overblown.

I have no interest in insulting people with name calling. I was called a gate keeping bitch to which I responded using the horrific word “clown”. I’m not the issue here.
Barkley isn’t a physical back  
WillVAB : 6/30/2021 8:33 pm : link
The 10 carry 12 yard games didn’t just start with the Giants behind a bad OL. He had some of those games in college.

He is who he is. He’s a homerun threat but he’s not going to be the guy to turn negative plays into 4 yard gains.
Barkley has NEVER been a physical back  
Dave on the UWS : 6/30/2021 8:44 pm : link
not at Penn state, not here. What makes him special is his ability to run like Sanders at 235 lbs. He is NOT a good between the tackle runner. Doesn't have Elliot's mindset for moving the chains.
He needs to retain that freakish ability or he will have a hard time. I suspect the organization knows this, thus the stocking up on backs that can be part of a solution.
This is a great tweet...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/30/2021 10:18 pm : link
Quote:

Bobby Skinner
@BobbySkinner_
·
7h
Giants running backs averaged 3.8 catches for 23.6 yards per game in 2020.

•Steelers week 1 with Saquon was their best game with 74 yards (31 more yards than their 2nd best game.
•Had 4 games with less than 10 yards

RB’s were merely a checkdown option for the Giants offense.
RE: well  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/1/2021 9:54 am : link
In comment 15296595 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
hard to have a conversation if you think every time Barkley is getting hit before the LOS you equate it to him "dancing" or "trying to hit a HR".

Does that happen on some runs? Sure. Is it anywhere near the frequency some on here make it? No chance. And I've seen enough of his 3-5 yard runs after getting hit behind the LOS to know this take is largely BS.

Would it be fair to instead say we should hope for more early-career Brandon Jacobs and less late-career Brandon Jacobs?
RE: RE: well  
UConn4523 : 7/1/2021 10:19 am : link
In comment 15297422 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15296595 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


hard to have a conversation if you think every time Barkley is getting hit before the LOS you equate it to him "dancing" or "trying to hit a HR".

Does that happen on some runs? Sure. Is it anywhere near the frequency some on here make it? No chance. And I've seen enough of his 3-5 yard runs after getting hit behind the LOS to know this take is largely BS.


Would it be fair to instead say we should hope for more early-career Brandon Jacobs and less late-career Brandon Jacobs?


I think its fair to say that Barkley might need to change or tweak his running style. But its completely ridiculous to want 3-4 yards instead of the chance of a major play/TD. Almost every BBI thread on Daniel Jones is about how this is a big play league and I agree with it, but it doesn't stop with the QB. There was a reason why our offense didn't look like complete shit in 2018 and it wasn't because of 3 yard runs.
RE: RE: RE: well  
Big Blue '56 : 7/1/2021 10:40 am : link
In comment 15297454 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15297422 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 15296595 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


hard to have a conversation if you think every time Barkley is getting hit before the LOS you equate it to him "dancing" or "trying to hit a HR".

Does that happen on some runs? Sure. Is it anywhere near the frequency some on here make it? No chance. And I've seen enough of his 3-5 yard runs after getting hit behind the LOS to know this take is largely BS.


Would it be fair to instead say we should hope for more early-career Brandon Jacobs and less late-career Brandon Jacobs?



I think its fair to say that Barkley might need to change or tweak his running style. But its completely ridiculous to want 3-4 yards instead of the chance of a major play/TD. Almost every BBI thread on Daniel Jones is about how this is a big play league and I agree with it, but it doesn't stop with the QB. There was a reason why our offense didn't look like complete shit in 2018 and it wasn't because of 3 yard runs.


One of the BEST RBs ever, Barry Sanders, was oft times stopped in the backfield or “danced” at times, yet he was ALWAYS a threat to take it to the house and easily made the HOF doing just that.

Gimme sum Sanders anyday!
Staying healthy for the first time since his rookie year  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/1/2021 10:53 am : link
would be Job 1.
I think its fair to wonder about Barks comeback...  
trueblueinpw : 7/1/2021 10:58 am : link
There's two elements I think: the first is the physical and the second is the mental.

Who know's about the physical? Some athletes recover pre-injury quickness and speed but most do not. By all accounts Barks is a hard worker and we know his body is touched by the hand of God. So, if anyone can come back physically, its probably good to bet on Barks.

The mental is more interesting to me. It seems like we all agree that Barks was never a "physical" back. And his challenges at pass pro were well known. So, why isn't Saquon a physical back? Why can't Saquon pass protect? The answer certainly is not that he doesn't possess the physical attributes. And these questions were all being asked before he blew out his knee. Coming back from a blown knee is Barks going to sell out in pass pro? Is he going to hit a hole to grind out the three yards and a cloud of dust? Is he going to fly through the air like Superman? Only time can tell. But it's more than fair to wonder.
RE: I think its fair to wonder about Barks comeback...  
Big Blue '56 : 7/1/2021 11:31 am : link
In comment 15297485 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
There's two elements I think: the first is the physical and the second is the mental.

Who know's about the physical? Some athletes recover pre-injury quickness and speed but most do not. By all accounts Barks is a hard worker and we know his body is touched by the hand of God. So, if anyone can come back physically, its probably good to bet on Barks.

The mental is more interesting to me. It seems like we all agree that Barks was never a "physical" back. And his challenges at pass pro were well known. So, why isn't Saquon a physical back? Why can't Saquon pass protect? The answer certainly is not that he doesn't possess the physical attributes. And these questions were all being asked before he blew out his knee. Coming back from a blown knee is Barks going to sell out in pass pro? Is he going to hit a hole to grind out the three yards and a cloud of dust? Is he going to fly through the air like Superman? Only time can tell. But it's more than fair to wonder.


SB is who he is and most likely always has been. Sure, it would be prudent to perhaps modify some things, but he’s not going to change his style all that much, imv..

I believe he’ll be physically fine in the overall. Mentally? I think he’ll overcome whatever MIGHT plague him in that regard, but if I have any concerns at all, it would be the mental aspect of it.
The key is BBI should all weigh in on how Saquon  
Jimmy Googs : 7/1/2021 5:28 pm : link
should run differently. It is obvious the Giant coaches and Saquon are both between a rock and a hard place as to what to do to jumpstart his career. Again, BBI is what will turn his game around and turn him into the generational back we were all promised.

Send all recommendations ASAP...
I think Barkley will be  
csh2z : 7/1/2021 5:32 pm : link
as good as he was in his first year, once he gets confidence in the knee. There seems to be little doubt that he works as hard as anybody ever has to rebuild his strength and speed, it's the cuts he needs to be confident in.
RE: I think Barkley will be  
SGMen : 7/1/2021 6:13 pm : link
In comment 15297839 csh2z said:
Quote:
as good as he was in his first year, once he gets confidence in the knee. There seems to be little doubt that he works as hard as anybody ever has to rebuild his strength and speed, it's the cuts he needs to be confident in.
In all honesty, knowing that how injuries are handled today (efficiently) and rehabbing is so focused and determined, I think Barkley will be 99.9% for camp and 99.99% for opening day game 1. I don't know if anyone post-surgery is ever 100%. But I'm no doctor either.

Bottom line: if Barkley has a 250-1300-10 and 70-600-7 type season or better this team wins the division.
When you have speed at WR (Galloday, Slayton, Toney) and RB (Barkley) and TE (Engram) you can create matchup problems. Go Giants!
I take issue with the notion…  
Britt in VA : 7/2/2021 10:36 am : link
that SB isn’t a “physical” back. SB rarely goes down upon first contact, often breaks multiple tackles, and no DB in the NFL wants to be posterized by one of his stiff arms. He’s strong as shit. Just because he doesn’t put his shoulder down and run over somebody like Jacobs did to Landry, Woodson, etc…. doesn’t mean, IMO, that he isn’t physical.
RE: I take issue with the notion…  
trueblueinpw : 7/2/2021 11:47 am : link
In comment 15298155 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
that SB isn’t a “physical” back. SB rarely goes down upon first contact, often breaks multiple tackles, and no DB in the NFL wants to be posterized by one of his stiff arms. He’s strong as shit. Just because he doesn’t put his shoulder down and run over somebody like Jacobs did to Landry, Woodson, etc…. doesn’t mean, IMO, that he isn’t physical.


Running over DBs doesn’t seem like a very high bar to me. And we all know Barkley is big and fast and he was water bug quick before the knee. But that’s where the mismatch seems to appear - he’s big and strong but he doesn’t seem to be a punishing back. He’s steps out of boards instead of taking contact. He skips outside instead of push up off tackle. He doesn’t pass pro, which is probably the most obvious sign that he doesn’t have a taste for contact because most NFL RBs say that pass pro is about attitude and willingness and not any physical attribute. He doesn’t wear down a defense. Look, I’m not saying I’d want to tackle Saquon, he’s a freaking load coming at you fast af. But yeah, I don’t think of him as a physical back. This was very much the book on Barks at PSU too. He is what he is - which is seems to be a guy that can score every time he touches the ball but will also make unspectacular plays in between the highlights.
Barkley's Comeback  
blink667 : 7/5/2021 7:47 am : link
...will be accelerated if the O line is functioning and he gets some good runs going for the sake of his confidence. Given the number of running backs the Giants now have, Barkley won't be carrying the load most of the season. He's a good kid and I hope he gets his career back on track.
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