Gathered his teammates for yet another workout down in NC. Barkley is there too. I’ve said it a million times already, but if Jones doesn’t work out for us, it won’t be for lack of effort or leadership.
he’s with his teammates. Working out, hanging out, etc…. It’s like he’s at this stuff 24/7. And somewhat quietly, he’s becoming the leader of the team. I don’t think that’s getting enough talk here.
Quote:
“He’s a guy that’s gonna step in the locker room, everyone’s gonna listen. He steps in the huddle, every player is listening to him. He’s demanding, he knows how to compete. We don’t have a quarterback, we have a number one leader of this team and a number one leader in the NFL,” Martinez said.
“I fell in love with Daniel after the first week I hung out with him going through training camp last summer,” Brown said. “He’s just a different type of competitor.
“He’s ambitious. It’s almost sneaky-competitor, he’s a guy who’s very laid back, you’re going to sleep on him, but he’s going to outrun you, he’s going to out-bench you, do whatever he needs to do to get better, but he’s going to do it in a silent manner to take care of business. I’m a big fan of Daniel Jones, and I’m happy he’s our quarterback.”
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
Nobody believes Jones’ play is because he doesn’t try
Or isn’t a leader. He is an easy guy to root for and seems like an ideal QB when it comes to dedication and leadership.
If those were the only qualities that made a successful NFL QB, the Giants would be all set for the next decade. He also comes across as a pretty bright guy.
Will be be better when plays break down and things don’t go according to plan? For me at least, that is where he needs to improve by leaps and bounds from his first two season.
It is great he is doing these things and it can only help him and the team. But effort and leadership has not been the missing piece with him.
RE: Nobody believes Jones’ play is because he doesn’t try
Or isn’t a leader. He is an easy guy to root for and seems like an ideal QB when it comes to dedication and leadership.
If those were the only qualities that made a successful NFL QB, the Giants would be all set for the next decade. He also comes across as a pretty bright guy.
Will be be better when plays break down and things don’t go according to plan? For me at least, that is where he needs to improve by leaps and bounds from his first two season.
It is great he is doing these things and it can only help him and the team. But effort and leadership has not been the missing piece with him.
Quote:
Will be be better when plays break down and things don’t go according to plan? For me at least, that is where he needs to improve by leaps and bounds from his first two season.
Absolutely. But this year (hopefully), when things do break down (for whatever reason), he’ll be able to use his legs, from time to time, imv
I can honestly see him taking a big step this year. But it’s not just about the weapons around him, it’s the reads and speed of decision making. That’s the biggest question for me with him, but if he can improve with that I think he’ll become a good QB for us.
I can honestly see him taking a big step this year. But it’s not just about the weapons around him, it’s the reads and speed of decision making. That’s the biggest question for me with him, but if he can improve with that I think he’ll become a good QB for us.
And that’s why all of these extra workouts are so crucial. Developing timing and rapport with his targets.
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
I expect an NFL QB to organize these sessions and work hard during the off-season. That's part of the job. So I am just not as impressed as you are with this news.
LOL. Of course you're trying to rain on the parade or you wouldn't have chimed in with an ill-informed comment just to take yet another swipe at a Giant.
And since it was purposeful, you completely tried to rain on the parade.
LOL. Of course you're trying to rain on the parade or you wouldn't have chimed in with an ill-informed comment just to take yet another swipe at a Giant.
And since it was purposeful, you completely tried to rain on the parade.
The bigger question is why the continual need to?
Don't even bother. Dude is misery personified. It's pathetic.
Drew Brees did it once or twice. Eli used to do it one week yearly down at Duke.
If I'm not mistaken, this is Jones' second, if not third, week long destination passing camp this offseason. And this is a complete guess, but it's completely possible he's paying for this, or some semblance of the travel, on his own dime.
Not to mention the multiple times he's been seen on high school football fields in Jersey this offseason working out individual receivers like Golladay right after we signed him. Or regularly taking his teammates to dinner or Knicks games.
If you can't acknowledge that this is above and beyond the call of duty to further ensure that your Sundays may be a bit more entertaining this year, then I guess whatever.
Most players go on vacation in the month between OTA's
not cutting corners, doing the real work. DOesn't mean Jones will be all pro but you know we'll get maximum effort to tbe the best version of Jones. And seeing Jones can already play unless he really turns back mentally I expect marked improvement this year.
Engram was at the TE camp and was just shown on Instagram at another training camp. For all you know Toney could be doing the same.
There’s a lot of “for all you knows” out there with Toney. He’s not going to build chemistry with his QB at some other camp. There’s plenty of other guys we don’t have to suggest hypotheticals for them putting I. The work. Hopefully one of these opportunities we won’t have to speculate that our first rounder could be putting in the work behind closed doors somewhere.
I never even made it to that point in this article. Lost me with:
"At Penn State, Brown watched players like Trace McSorely and Micah Parsons rally their units and light fires up under the Nittany Lions. Luckily for Brown, the will to win from his team leaders has only gotten stronger at the next level."
“I fell in love with Daniel after the first week I hung out with him going through training camp last summer,” Brown said. “He’s just a different type of competitor.
“He’s ambitious. It’s almost sneaky-competitor, he’s a guy who’s very laid back, you’re going to sleep on him, but he’s going to outrun you, he’s going to out-bench you, do whatever he needs to do to get better, but he’s going to do it in a silent manner to take care of business. I’m a big fan of Daniel Jones, and I’m happy he’s our quarterback.”
And these are defensive players…. Link - ( New Window )
Say what you want about Trace McSorley, that guy was a gamer / competitor. Likely never be a starter in the NFL but he was a good college player and hella competitive.
Toney will make a highlight reel type of play in his 1st game
Remember the last 1st round WR we drafted missed ALL OF TRAINING CAMP + THE FIRST 4 GAMES! So what if Toney didn't practice with the 1s during OTAs, let the kid learn the fucking playbook before you crucify him for Christ's sake
Be sure this is all on Danny’s Dime if he is the host. I wonder if he’s bringing them all over to meet his family, etc. This is the kind of bonding that builds timing/chemistry that is translatable to the field, and builds bonds in the locker room that’s basically bunker mentality.
He’s got the tools and the talent to become a top 10 qb, he just needs to put it all together and make good decisions/protect the ball. I really think having a normal offseason is going to do wonders for him, and if this o-line develops to give him some time, he can shred a secondary with his ball placement.
even if you dislike Jones, what triggers someone enough to come on every thread about Jones that talks about something positive and compels a negative post?
Clearly it isn't an aversion to rain on a parade, no matter what is typed.
Sort of like the old, "I don't mean to sound critical" lead-in, which ALWAYS means you want to sound critical!
even if you dislike Jones, what triggers someone enough to come on every thread about Jones that talks about something positive and compels a negative post?
Clearly it isn't an aversion to rain on a parade, no matter what is typed.
Sort of like the old, "I don't mean to sound critical" lead-in, which ALWAYS means you want to sound critical!
Yup, it’s the same negative shit repeated over and over and over and over again. Negative takes are fine, but we GET WHERE THE FUCK YOU’RE COMING FROM ALREADY! Ok, I’m fine now…😎
Many are acting like what Jones is doing is something super special here and we should all genuflect. There is always this romance that only Giants players work hard in the off-season. Please.
Considering the way Jones has played for two years, this seems like the least he should be doing, and what everyone should expect.
RE: Most players go on vacation in the month between OTA's
Our players are working out. You can't acknowledge that's good?
I’m really confused. Who is arguing that this is bad news?
Is there anyone on this board claiming Jones hasn’t played well the past few years because he is lazy, or his teammates don’t respect him?
What he is doing is a good thing. Nobody is arguing it isn’t. The question being raised is whether it will be impactful this season. Hard work I has never seemed to be an element of his game that was missing. Because of that, him working hard isn’t necessarily putting minds at ease.
Nobody is saying it’s bad at all. It’s very good news and stuff
Many are acting like what Jones is doing is something super special here and we should all genuflect. There is always this romance that only Giants players work hard in the off-season. Please.
Considering the way Jones has played for two years, this seems like the least he should be doing, and what everyone should expect.
No nobody is acting like that. It's just tiring seeing your constant put downs of the guy even when it's a positive discussion about his leadership qualities.
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
I expect an NFL QB to organize these sessions and work hard during the off-season. That's part of the job. So I am just not as impressed as you are with this news.
Shocking you won't give Jones credit for anything.
Many are acting like what Jones is doing is something super special here and we should all genuflect. There is always this romance that only Giants players work hard in the off-season. Please.
Considering the way Jones has played for two years, this seems like the least he should be doing, and what everyone should expect.
No nobody is acting like that. It's just tiring seeing your constant put downs of the guy even when it's a positive discussion about his leadership qualities.
No, I'd be putting down Jones if he wasn't doing this.
Again, it's all about expectations. You don't expect this from Jones?
To me, this is part of Jones's job description. For others, it seems, this is worth a big round of applause...
Work ethic isn't the question
Go Terps : 2:10 pm : link : reply
Talent is.
The talent is self evident to all but cave fish.....yr 1 misses preseason and breaks records
Yr.2 ...endures the perfect storm but leads entire league in long throws.
Tua has been holding throwing camps weekly with his receivers in Miami
Essentially this. Who gives a fuck if he’s playing catch with some teammates somewhere? It’s time to show results on the field. Everything else is fluff.
First, as a rookie he was behind Eli and never had many meaningful first team reps as QB. As a rookie, he stepped in and threw the ball well though his fumbles hurt badly. His OL as a rookie was among the league's worst. His stats with Barkley as a rookie were solid, without not so much.
Second, in his second year Covid comes along with a new coaching staff so there is no real, true pre-season to learn in. The learning curve as the first four games against veteran coached teams so they lost, lost, lostand lost. But they played hard. They lost Barkley their only HR threat. Tate got old; Slayton hurt his foot; Shepard missed games; TE's missed balls or didn't develop.
This was a NEW OFFENSE with almost no talent and when Barkley went down they were so limited. Also, Jones hurt his leg and that took away his legs and ability to make something out of nothing.
Third, why I am optimistic: this is going to be his second year in the same system and he'll have a camp to learn and develop. The OL should be better though yes admittedly that is debatable until the games begin. But in Judge and the coaches I trust. It is all gut right now but I sense positiveness and I see young, hungry guys. Jones stats when given time are very very good.
I like our first two games against Denver @ home followed by Washington on a short road game. I believe we win both mainly because unless injuries hit we are the more balanced team in each affair. I'd love for us to have a 42 - 10 opening day blowout where we rest our regulars in the 4th quarter and allow the young guys to get reps. I'd love for us to go to WFT and compete and win what will be a tough game I'm sure.
Jones will open strong because I think this team is the most talent, balanced of possibly the last decade, since our SB win.
I'm sticking with 10 - 7, giver or take a game, and we win this division and a playoff game MINIMUM. I honestly believe that.
Work ethic isn't the question
Go Terps : 2:10 pm : link : reply
Talent is.
The talent is self evident to all but cave fish.....yr 1 misses preseason and breaks records
Yr.2 ...endures the perfect storm but leads entire league in long throws.
So you think all of the articles and analysis done around Jones are written by cave fish?
These are the types of comments that get ridiculed. It is just as dumb as labeling him a bust.
The one thing we know about Jones at this exact moment is that his NFL career is dependent on this season. The claims at both ends of the spectrum are beliefs, not facts.
Work ethic isn't the question
Go Terps : 2:10 pm : link : reply
Talent is.
The talent is self evident to all but cave fish.....yr 1 misses preseason and breaks records
Yr.2 ...endures the perfect storm but leads entire league in long throws.
Work ethic isn't the question
Go Terps : 2:10 pm : link : reply
Talent is.
The talent is self evident to all but cave fish.....yr 1 misses preseason and breaks records
Yr.2 ...endures the perfect storm but leads entire league in long throws.
So you think all of the articles and analysis done around Jones are written by cave fish?
These are the types of comments that get ridiculed. It is just as dumb as labeling him a bust.
The one thing we know about Jones at this exact moment is that his NFL career is dependent on this season. The claims at both ends of the spectrum are beliefs, not facts.
I believe by the bye week we will know what we have in Jones. We have no youngster on the roster worthy of stepping up should he struggle but honestly, I think Jones will surprise and finally put together a balanced season.
The key is Barkley being healthy and being explosive again along with being that dump off receiver who can make the first guy miss and perhaps have a few big plays in the passing game.
I don’t disagree. Jones has the physical skills to succeed, and he will work hard. My biggest concern is his instincts in the pocket. I don’t believe he has a feel for the position that the top QBs do. To me, he is too deliberate and too mechanical.
That is certainly something that can get better, and I hope it does. I don’t want to see the Giants have to spend another top pick on a QB and go through this process again.
I think everyone would love to see a big season out of Jones. I think there is a good possibility we do. But I still have my doubts about him based off of what I have seen.
But, you want him to improve? Get it done in the game? Well this is one of the ways to do that. He's working every possible angle at every possible opportunity, it seems to me.
Better in game performance isn't just going to magically appear. It will come through practice and experience and a good offensive system / playcalling. Jones can't control the system and playcalling, but he can practice, practice and more practice, with the actual guys he will be playing with.
So for anyone who is skeptical of Jones ability, isn't this what you want to see? Should be very glad.
Jones to throw 30 TD passes and 4000 yards, run for 5 TDs and win 11 games this season, just to shut up the haters!
Let's Go Giants!
This idea that fans who doubt Jones are haters is idiotic. I have my doubts about Jones, but nobody on this site is rooting for him to succeed more than I am.
This idea that all judgments need to be made with your heart is something I will never understand.
I think most get that this is one of those necessary but not sufficient contingents on Jones success. He needs to build chemistry and timing with his receivers but doing so will not by itself guarantee he’s going to have a good season. I’m not sure the need for some of the negative reactions. As fans of the team, this is what you expect and want to see, no?
In the not to distant past, it was accepted that an NFL QB needed about 3 years to develop. Jones shows signs and ability. I do believe those that say his pocket awareness is the issue, plus it has led to being striped too often. Despite his injury he seemed to hold the ball better toward the end of the year .... we will see.
Big year for DJ, he can practice his ass off and get to know his receivers as well as possible, but if he still cannot feel the pocket and make the correct reads quickly he will need to be replaced.
Is why people feel compelled to stifle any positive conversation on this site about Jones. I think the concerns about Jones are well known at this point.
But really, what this thread is about, should be universally praised.
Is why people feel compelled to stifle any positive conversation on this site about Jones. I think the concerns about Jones are well known at this point.
But really, what this thread is about, should be universally praised.
It doesn't even have to be universally praised. But to act as if most QB's do this or throw in some BS comment about his talent being an issue is just finding ways to knock Jones.
Here in Carolina, the last QB I can remember having guys together for drills was Jake Delhomme. Cam did a lot of work with youth camps in the area, but didn't get his WR's together for this type of thing. Heck, Jalen Hurts this offseason went to work out with a group of WR's from other teams. I don't think the Redskins have had QB organized workouts in several years.
But from some of the commentary, you'd think that not only is is happening everywhere, it is expected. Why that narrative is being written and who the posters are writing it are what to question.
Is why people feel compelled to stifle any positive conversation on this site about Jones. I think the concerns about Jones are well known at this point.
But really, what this thread is about, should be universally praised.
I wrote a positive comment. A bunch of others did as well. And mixed in with that were a few comments about this is no big deal or what they really want to see with Jones.
So what in the world got stifled? Nothing really.
If anything, a post that didn’t praise Daniel Jones just got a bunch of you all mumped up...
Someone providing a different or expanded opinion on something is in no way preventing anyone from saying anything they want. This is a message board where people provide their opinions. Differing opinions are not meant to silence anyone or restrict discussion.
If you are looking for universal agreement on something maybe post about the 86 Giants or Michael Strahan. You know there are differing opinions on his future and you have to know that many we will read this thread and think “great, but…”
It’s really ok for everyone to not hold the same opinion.
Someone providing a different or expanded opinion on something is in no way preventing anyone from saying anything they want. This is a message board where people provide their opinions. Differing opinions are not meant to silence anyone or restrict discussion.
If you are looking for universal agreement on something maybe post about the 86 Giants or Michael Strahan. You know there are differing opinions on his future and you have to know that many we will read this thread and think “great, but…”
It’s really ok for everyone to not hold the same opinion.
Actually, I could provide some negatives on Strahan… :)
Someone providing a different or expanded opinion on something is in no way preventing anyone from saying anything they want. This is a message board where people provide their opinions. Differing opinions are not meant to silence anyone or restrict discussion.
If you are looking for universal agreement on something maybe post about the 86 Giants or Michael Strahan. You know there are differing opinions on his future and you have to know that many we will read this thread and think “great, but…”
It’s really ok for everyone to not hold the same opinion.
Ha. There won’t be universal agreement on the 86 Giants or Strahan.
it's not a work ethic issue. It's a talent issue. As in surrounding talent.
To review:
*Golden Tate at #1 WR
*Breaking in rookie OLine
*Lost 1 player he couldn't lose (Barkley) in week 2
*Engram making a weekly soul-crushing mistake
*Receivers as a group got the least amount of separation in the NFL
*All the while playing in NY, and not losing his head with the media
Just like at Duke, he had nothing to work with. Jones actually performed well given the sh#tshow circumstances and his own lack of experience. That's why Judge loves him. I thought he very clearly "grew up" midseason when they stomped the Eagles. Go back and watch the week 17 win vs. DAL - he's clearly injured but engineers a nice win. He's got nothing around him that would threaten an NFL Defense.
This will be the first year since High School he actually has good relative talent around him. I think he's going to produce.
Jones’s prep and leadership is unassailable. Should never be questioned.
The other praise worthy factor is guys like Shepard and Golladay who’ve been paid and know the NFL, who don’t need the reps as much. Good for them to attend.
There is a little hyperbole in my view with Jones. At Duke he had a TE and WR sign for a cup of coffee in the NFL. I wonder what guys Allen had in college.
Jones also played better as a midseason replacement in 2019 with arguably as bad a line and WR group. The league clearly figured him out in some respects, now he has to adjust as all good QBs so.
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
That Patrick Mahomes sure could learn a thing or two from Daniel Jones!
it's not a work ethic issue. It's a talent issue. As in surrounding talent.
I'm in the I hope Jones proves himself a good NFL QB camp, and in the camp that posters of the 'no more excuses' are blind to the realities the mittened one points out are not make believe.
I don't think it is unreasonable at all that a QB waiting for his receivers to get open, get separation, is a real factor in hanging on to the ball...too long. He's a competitor trying to make plays. I don't think it is unreasonable at all that the NFL's worst OL in QB hits has something to do with the OL, as well as contribution from the QB. We can all hope that there has been enough done in the off-season to resolve where the dysfunction lay, or lies, can we not? As christian in his thread the other day laid bare with his selection, the OL remains the biggest ??. If the OL resolves that with a decisive move toward competence, then we will see what we have in DJ.
There is something else Jones needs to work on, somehow: speeding up his recognition improving his decisions. Most of that is experience, but that was Sy's knock on Jones coming out, right? Not having a quick mind? He seemed to improve by giving up "hero ball," so that's good.
There are also things that can be done in training to improve decision making and recognition. Years ago I remember Donovan McNabb was practicing while wearing shutter glasses, so he had to learn to make his decisions with incomplete information and obscured vision. I don't know how much of a difference that made for McNabb and I don't know whether that's a solution for Jones. He seems to have great rapport with his teammates, good leadership qualities, he's fast, he's an accurate passer. If he can make better, faster decisions, we'll see a huge leap in his game.
Put me in the 'If he fails, it won't because of a lack of effort' camp. I'm hoping he elevates his game this fall. He seems like a good kid & I want him to suceed.
RE: RE: RE: Not trying to rain on the parade here…
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
That Patrick Mahomes sure could learn a thing or two from Daniel Jones!
Do you realize how absurd that sounds?
That does sound absurd. However, I didn’t say that or even imply it. Maybe read what I wrote again in the context of the question I was responding to. Patrick Mahomes, and Justin Herbert for that matter, were the first two QB’s that randomly came to mind.
If you look at Eli's 27 game stats versus Jones 27 game stats, less than two years, they are surprisingly similar. In fact, Jones has the advantage in almost every category except fumbles--but Eli has way more INTs.
it’s real simple. Until the Mara’s sell the team and make EVERY decision exactly the way they want ( since they know more than EVERYONE), which will include cutting Jones and magically sign a guaranteed pro bowler to EVERY position, they will be insufferable jerks.
They fail to see simple things like, Jones improved the second half is last year, played faster as he for more comfortable, his second year in the same system LIKELY will yield more improvement. But it doesn’t fit their narrative that he can’t play, so they dump on him every chance they get. Not enough people left around here they try to see things from both sides which is a shame.
RE: RE: Most players go on vacation in the month between OTA's
Our players are working out. You can't acknowledge that's good?
I’m really confused. Who is arguing that this is bad news?
Is there anyone on this board claiming Jones hasn’t played well the past few years because he is lazy, or his teammates don’t respect him?
What he is doing is a good thing. Nobody is arguing it isn’t. The question being raised is whether it will be impactful this season. Hard work I has never seemed to be an element of his game that was missing. Because of that, him working hard isn’t necessarily putting minds at ease.
I mean, I think every little bit of extra effort/work that goes into the offseason can have an impact. Like, obviously it's not like this one thing is going to change the Giants record from 7-10 to 13-4 or something, but let's not take these extra practices/workouts for granted. Yes we know DJ has a great work ethic, but it's also nice to be reminded of it every once in awhile. Extra work isn't going to guarantee that he has a breakout year, but at the same time he also definitely WON'T have a breakout year if he DOESN'T put in the extra work.
Getting in extra practice as opposed to going on vacation is absolutely the type of thing that can separate the winners from the losers. I know fans/media often blow things like this out of proportion, but at the same time it's not like this is just absolutely nothing at all. It's worth mentioning and applauding IMO.
I don’t think anyone thinks this is a bad thing. It is a good thing and nobody has said it isn’t.
Imagine this was a thread about Evan Engram and his rigorous offseason training program. That would be a good thing. But how many people would be posting “yeah great, but is he working on catching the ball?”
Nobody has ever questioned Jones’ leadership and work ethic. Timing and familiarity with his receivers can only help. But I don’t think anyone believed those elements were what was holding him back last year.
And for the “say something nice ot nothing at all” crowd
Why does that apply to Jones, and not someone like Evan Engram? People shit on Engram all the time (often rightly so for crucial drops). Why is it alright to criticize him and call constantly for him to be cut or benched, but when we move on to Jones it is “no negative comments please!”
Opinions of the Giants team, ownership, coaching and players vary widely. Posters need to stop looking at differing opinions as character flaws or evidence of idiocy. It’s those posters that are threatened by opposing opinions that make actual discussion of this team a near impossibility.
RE: You’re right...how could we possibly forget that.
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
That Patrick Mahomes sure could learn a thing or two from Daniel Jones!
Do you realize how absurd that sounds?
That does sound absurd. However, I didn’t say that or even imply it. Maybe read what I wrote again in the context of the question I was responding to. Patrick Mahomes, and Justin Herbert for that matter, were the first two QB’s that randomly came to mind.
That's true, you didn't say that or even imply it.
What you might logically have taken from that, however, is that there may not be any correlation between offseason leadership (or however you'd like to phrase it) and in-season performance. That a great QB will play like a great QB whether he gathers his teammates in the offseason or not; and there's no evidence to suggest that the offseason leadership that DJ is exhibiting - in absence of any other individual improvement on his part - will make a difference on the field. Unless the implication is that someone like Mahomes could be even better if he would just be more of a leader in the offseason.
I'm rooting for DJ to succeed this year and beyond every bit as much as you are - the Giants' opportunity to become a contender again relies on it. I'm just not looking for every crumb of forced praise along the way.
if you're a Giants fan, what other choice do you have but to root for him to be a tremendous success even if it flies in the face of what your "research" or "gut" tells you?
He's an easy to kid to root for, there's SOME glimmer of hope that he pans out and all signs point to the fact that the Giants are going to see this thing through to the end.
SO for now... I'm going to support #6 at this point until:
1.) he starts winning and everyone is happy
OR
2.) he continues to lose and DJ and DG go at the end of the season.
There's no other options at this point.
RE: And for the “say something nice ot nothing at all” crowd
Why does that apply to Jones, and not someone like Evan Engram? People shit on Engram all the time (often rightly so for crucial drops). Why is it alright to criticize him and call constantly for him to be cut or benched, but when we move on to Jones it is “no negative comments please!”
Opinions of the Giants team, ownership, coaching and players vary widely. Posters need to stop looking at differing opinions as character flaws or evidence of idiocy. It’s those posters that are threatened by opposing opinions that make actual discussion of this team a near impossibility.
It should apply to every player. There are certain things that can be debated about performance, but if there is a thread about Engram gathering the TE's and doing a workout, it shouldn't be a referendum on his hands.
There are some posts that should just be viewed positively and yet there are some that just can't help themselves to push their narrative across, just like in this thread.
Why is it all not just relatively fair game for discussion?
Imposing too many boundaries serves no purpose on a discussion board.
You really want an OP to remark how Daniel Jones is doing some extra stuff this offseason and 20 lemmings posting “I agree”?
And there is always the ability to ignore the dissenting opinion if you choose. Or attack it, as seems the case above from plenty who offered no other thoughts of their own on the topic.
RE: Why is it all not just relatively fair game for discussion?
Imposing too many boundaries serves no purpose on a discussion board.
You really want an OP to remark how Daniel Jones is doing some extra stuff this offseason and 20 lemmings posting “I agree”?
And there is always the ability to ignore the dissenting opinion if you choose. Or attack it, as seems the case above from plenty who offered no other thoughts of their own on the topic.
You're right. It's always best to have the same few posters come in with the same points and shit all over Jones even on something positive, positive articles, etc. posted about him.
expect there to be 20 "lemmings" on every subject, but a thread like this is pretty straightforward. It is talking about Jones gathering the WR's together for workouts. It is more informative than anything else - so is it really "fair game" to then have the usual suspects chime in with a negative slant to it?
And if someone is going to chime in saying this is the usual practice, they probably should be confident enough that they aren't talking out of their ass and it should be common knowledge that most QB's do this for every team (which they don't). So in the zeal to take a potshot, that poster can't even provide the right information to complain about.
RE: RE: Why is it all not just relatively fair game for discussion?
Imposing too many boundaries serves no purpose on a discussion board.
You really want an OP to remark how Daniel Jones is doing some extra stuff this offseason and 20 lemmings posting “I agree”?
And there is always the ability to ignore the dissenting opinion if you choose. Or attack it, as seems the case above from plenty who offered no other thoughts of their own on the topic.
You're right. It's always best to have the same few posters come in with the same points and shit all over Jones even on something positive, positive articles, etc. posted about him.
Is it better to have other posters come in with the same points and praise Jones or default to let’s wait and see even on something negative, negative articles, etc. posted about him?
expect there to be 20 "lemmings" on every subject, but a thread like this is pretty straightforward. It is talking about Jones gathering the WR's together for workouts. It is more informative than anything else - so is it really "fair game" to then have the usual suspects chime in with a negative slant to it?
And if someone is going to chime in saying this is the usual practice, they probably should be confident enough that they aren't talking out of their ass and it should be common knowledge that most QB's do this for every team (which they don't). So in the zeal to take a potshot, that poster can't even provide the right information to complain about.
Copy my response given to the other poster.
And agree that if one is talking out of their ass then they are subject to being taken to the woodshed. Not sure anyone here was though.
RE: RE: RE: Why is it all not just relatively fair game for discussion?
Is it better to have other posters come in with the same points and praise Jones or default to let’s wait and see even on something negative, negative articles, etc. posted about him?
It’s all fair game.
Of course it's fair game. It's a message board. That doesn't mean it's not completely old and tired on literally EVERY. SINGLE. THREAD.
RE: RE: And for the “say something nice ot nothing at all” crowd
Why does that apply to Jones, and not someone like Evan Engram? People shit on Engram all the time (often rightly so for crucial drops). Why is it alright to criticize him and call constantly for him to be cut or benched, but when we move on to Jones it is “no negative comments please!”
Opinions of the Giants team, ownership, coaching and players vary widely. Posters need to stop looking at differing opinions as character flaws or evidence of idiocy. It’s those posters that are threatened by opposing opinions that make actual discussion of this team a near impossibility.
It should apply to every player. There are certain things that can be debated about performance, but if there is a thread about Engram gathering the TE's and doing a workout, it shouldn't be a referendum on his hands.
There are some posts that should just be viewed positively and yet there are some that just can't help themselves to push their narrative across, just like in this thread.
And if one of those posters starts a thread critical about Jones, they will also be criticized for "pushing a narrative?"
When you view all praise of Jones as insightful and intelligent posts, and all criticisms of Jones as a narrative, it's time to re-evaluate your own objectivity.
But it seems many posters don't want objective, they want views straight from Giants.com.
praises everything positive about Jones as being "insightful"?? That's just bullshit.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
RE: RE: Why is it all not just relatively fair game for discussion?
You're right. It's always best to have the same few posters come in with the same points and shit all over Jones even on something positive, positive articles, etc. posted about him.
Why is criticism of a player who has been, to date, a rather glaring disappointment given his draft slot considered to be "shit all over" him?
If he stops sucking as an NFL starter, then you'll see much less negativity.
praises everything positive about Jones as being "insightful"?? That's just bullshit.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
Everyone understands what the post was about. Nobody argued that it was bad, or reflected poorly on Jones. The point was made that the two traits it demonstrated - hard work and leadership - were never in doubt with Jones. Seeing him demonstrating traits that were never in doubt wasn't exactly newsworthy (which says a lot about Jones).
If the request here is "if a thread praises Jones for leadership, only responses about Jones' leadership are allowed" that is silly. Discussions don't follow such narrow paths.
If someone posts nonsense like "every QB does this" then call it out. But that was the only post on this thread that seemed to "push a narrative."
RE: RE: RE: Why is it all not just relatively fair game for discussion?
You're right. It's always best to have the same few posters come in with the same points and shit all over Jones even on something positive, positive articles, etc. posted about him.
Why is criticism of a player who has been, to date, a rather glaring disappointment given his draft slot considered to be "shit all over" him?
If he stops sucking as an NFL starter, then you'll see much less negativity.
If OP wants to turn off comments and just get likes, Twitter has that option.
It's great that Daniel Jones is putting in the work with his new teammates this summer. What would be better is if he played a LOT better than he has so far in his career.
praises everything positive about Jones as being "insightful"?? That's just bullshit.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
People feel compelled to post negative comments because his play generates negative feelings for anyone who wants to see the Giants win.
Two years in, Daniel Jones sucks. Hopefully he doesn't suck in year three.
The rest, like the story in the thread starter, doesn't matter.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Why is it all not just relatively fair game for discussion?
You're right. It's always best to have the same few posters come in with the same points and shit all over Jones even on something positive, positive articles, etc. posted about him.
Why is criticism of a player who has been, to date, a rather glaring disappointment given his draft slot considered to be "shit all over" him?
If he stops sucking as an NFL starter, then you'll see much less negativity.
If OP wants to turn off comments and just get likes, Twitter has that option.
It's great that Daniel Jones is putting in the work with his new teammates this summer. What would be better is if he played a LOT better than he has so far in his career.
That's all Britt wants. No feedback, just likes.
I can't even fathom how he'd cope with getting ratio'd.
I'm not really sure why "leadership is not in question"
with Jones. To me the biggest measure of a leader is being a winner and hasn't really demonstrated that. I'm not saying that he isn't a good leader, but I'm not sure how we can say he is at this point.
praises everything positive about Jones as being "insightful"?? That's just bullshit.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
People feel compelled to post negative comments because his play generates negative feelings for anyone who wants to see the Giants win.
Two years in, Daniel Jones sucks. Hopefully he doesn't suck in year three.
The rest, like the story in the thread starter, doesn't matter.
You're "compelled" to post negative comments on Jones?
All for freedom of speech of this fan board as I like to hear genuine opinions come through in posts, but this feels a bit overboard.
How come you're not just as compelled to post how you hope he plays better like you state above?
praises everything positive about Jones as being "insightful"?? That's just bullshit.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
People feel compelled to post negative comments because his play generates negative feelings for anyone who wants to see the Giants win.
Two years in, Daniel Jones sucks. Hopefully he doesn't suck in year three.
The rest, like the story in the thread starter, doesn't matter.
You're "compelled" to post negative comments on Jones?
All for freedom of speech of this fan board as I like to hear genuine opinions come through in posts, but this feels a bit overboard.
How come you're not just as compelled to post how you hope he plays better like you state above?
It could be because Jones has been one of the "worst" QBs in the NFL since taking over the gig.
Do we have to pretend that everyone who wears blue is a fucking superstar?
Jones might well take the next step this year. He might become a good or even a great NFL QB this year.
games start in a few months, what would you like to talk about on Jones that hasn’t already been stated?
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
games start in a few months, what would you like to talk about on Jones that hasn’t already been stated?
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
Because I want to actually talk football with knowledgeable fans.
praises everything positive about Jones as being "insightful"?? That's just bullshit.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
People feel compelled to post negative comments because his play generates negative feelings for anyone who wants to see the Giants win.
Two years in, Daniel Jones sucks. Hopefully he doesn't suck in year three.
The rest, like the story in the thread starter, doesn't matter.
You're "compelled" to post negative comments on Jones?
All for freedom of speech of this fan board as I like to hear genuine opinions come through in posts, but this feels a bit overboard.
How come you're not just as compelled to post how you hope he plays better like you state above?
It could be because Jones has been one of the "worst" QBs in the NFL since taking over the gig.
Do we have to pretend that everyone who wears blue is a fucking superstar?
Jones might well take the next step this year. He might become a good or even a great NFL QB this year.
But to date, he sucks.
Oh yes, I agree he has struggled mightily. And there is nothing wrong with stating that, even as fact.
But to be compelled to do it feels like it is a whole other level. No?
praises everything positive about Jones as being "insightful"?? That's just bullshit.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
People feel compelled to post negative comments because his play generates negative feelings for anyone who wants to see the Giants win.
Two years in, Daniel Jones sucks. Hopefully he doesn't suck in year three.
The rest, like the story in the thread starter, doesn't matter.
You're "compelled" to post negative comments on Jones?
All for freedom of speech of this fan board as I like to hear genuine opinions come through in posts, but this feels a bit overboard.
How come you're not just as compelled to post how you hope he plays better like you state above?
It could be because Jones has been one of the "worst" QBs in the NFL since taking over the gig.
Do we have to pretend that everyone who wears blue is a fucking superstar?
Jones might well take the next step this year. He might become a good or even a great NFL QB this year.
But to date, he sucks.
Oh yes, I agree he has struggled mightily. And there is nothing wrong with stating that, even as fact.
But to be compelled to do it feels like it is a whole other level. No?
Why is it somehow worse to recognize his shortcomings thus far while some fans just act like DJ is the next Aaron Rodgers with absolutely no evidence to support that?
There are two things I can't stand:
1) the Giants sucking
2) Giants fans becoming the equivalent of Cowboys fans, and celebrating mediocrity
games start in a few months, what would you like to talk about on Jones that hasn’t already been stated?
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
Because I want to actually talk football with knowledgeable fans.
We can skip each other going forward.
Wasn’t talking to you, but please feel free to skip regardless.
games start in a few months, what would you like to talk about on Jones that hasn’t already been stated?
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
Because I want to actually talk football with knowledgeable fans.
We can skip each other going forward.
Wasn’t talking to you, but please feel free to skip regardless.
games start in a few months, what would you like to talk about on Jones that hasn’t already been stated?
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
What are you on this site for? As far as I can tell it's little more than to complain about other posters.
I think the interesting discussions around the Giants right now are:
- What is the balance of power between Gettleman and Judge?
- What are the mistakes of the past three years and how have they shaped today's roster?
- How long are the Giants going to tolerate bad football from Daniel Jones? Just 2021? 2022?
- Anything involving next year's draft QB prospects.
Why is it somehow worse to recognize his shortcomings thus far while some fans just act like DJ is the next Aaron Rodgers with absolutely no evidence to support that?
There are two things I can't stand:
1) the Giants sucking
2) Giants fans becoming the equivalent of Cowboys fans, and celebrating mediocrity
It isn't worse to recognize Jones' shortcomings. To be forcibly driven to do so feels like it is approaching worse though.
those "interesting" discussions seem to focus of supposed mistakes in the past.
why shouldn't the interesting discussions be about the moves the Giants have made this offseason and their impact on their success or failure?
What does the balance of power between the GM and HC have to do with anything and what interesting debate come of it? You just want to keep a referendum on Gettleman, Jones and Barkley it seems.
those "interesting" discussions seem to focus of supposed mistakes in the past.
why shouldn't the interesting discussions be about the moves the Giants have made this offseason and their impact on their success or failure?
What does the balance of power between the GM and HC have to do with anything and what interesting debate come of it? You just want to keep a referendum on Gettleman, Jones and Barkley it seems.
Speaking solely for myself, the reason for discussing past failures is that they are the only valid data points that we have for the past several years.
This franchise has sucked out loud for the past eight years with the exception of one outlier season that ended in an embarrassing defeat. Why are we supposed to act as though the reality is somehow inconsistent with that fact?
I really want the Giants to get their act together and win more games than they lose. But they haven't done that since 2016. Why are we required to pretend like they have?
Why is it somehow worse to recognize his shortcomings thus far while some fans just act like DJ is the next Aaron Rodgers with absolutely no evidence to support that?
There are two things I can't stand:
1) the Giants sucking
2) Giants fans becoming the equivalent of Cowboys fans, and celebrating mediocrity
It isn't worse to recognize Jones' shortcomings. To be forcibly driven to do so feels like it is approaching worse though.
And I don't like 1 & 2 either.
Jones, to date, is what he is. He's a mediocre QB, with a penchant for dynamic mobility, and an uncertain balance between playmaking and turnovers. That's what we know from his first two years.
The polyannas don't want to accept any of that. They want to discuss the world where DJ becomes Aaron Rodgers, just like they wanted to mount the Eli Revenge Tour.
It's all fiction until proven otherwise. I'm not sure why refusing to play along with that nonsense means that anyone is less of a fan.
I also don't understand why being a "better fan" is a goal. If pretending poor players are good makes you a better fan, have at it...go be a better fan.
games start in a few months, what would you like to talk about on Jones that hasn’t already been stated?
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
What are you on this site for? As far as I can tell it's little more than to complain about other posters.
I think the interesting discussions around the Giants right now are:
- What is the balance of power between Gettleman and Judge?
- What are the mistakes of the past three years and how have they shaped today's roster?
- How long are the Giants going to tolerate bad football from Daniel Jones? Just 2021? 2022?
- Anything involving next year's draft QB prospects.
There's a lot to talk about.
I've tried many times engaging in conversations with you but you only want it on your terms which is "why is DG still here" or "how can you trust Jones" or anything along those lines. And when those questions are answered, often times with reasonable replies the response is always the same. So that's why I ask "what now"? What are you looking to get out of this?
I think its pretty clear are looking for someone to prove you wrong, you aren't actually looking for a discussion. The funny part is don't think you are wrong, you just have zero ability to talk about the future since it didn't happen yet.
I'll take a stab at your questions though, lets see how this goes.
- What is the balance of power between Gettleman and Judge?
Answer - Judge seems to have a larger say in roster construction, and the "program" as a whole seems to be his. All hires likely go through him now and that means what will happen at OC. I don't think he's negotiating contracts but i think he's got a synergy with Gettelman and Abrams on players he wants and how long he'd want them for. I don't think he has final say or anything but definitely way more power than this time last year.
- What are the mistakes of the past three years and how have they shaped today's roster?
Answer - stated about 10,000 times on this site, do you really not know?
- How long are the Giants going to tolerate bad football from Daniel Jones? Just 2021? 2022?
Answer - Seems to me like if the answer to question 1 is accurate, he will have 2021, maybe not even the full season if he can't win some games.
- Anything involving next year's draft QB prospects.
Answer - don't know, don't have any opinion on prospects at this time.
Look, I have joined in and taken my shots at Daniel Jones
For someone like Judge, Gettleman is an ideal GM. Gettleman is notorious for getting the players that his coach wants even if it means overpaying. Not to mention he doesn't care whether he is liked or not. That means he is willing to give all of the credit to the coaching staff if the players hit and take the blame if the players end up not meeting expectations. Since Judge has an idea about what he wants from every spot on roster, but does not have the cred of someone like Tom Coughlin, having Gettleman really helps.
Jones, to date, is what he is. He's a mediocre QB, with a penchant for dynamic mobility, and an uncertain balance between playmaking and turnovers. That's what we know from his first two years.
The polyannas don't want to accept any of that. They want to discuss the world where DJ becomes Aaron Rodgers, just like they wanted to mount the Eli Revenge Tour.
It's all fiction until proven otherwise. I'm not sure why refusing to play along with that nonsense means that anyone is less of a fan.
The simplest way to put it is that some people are going to require that Daniel Jones actually perform on the field before assuming he's the guy. In the overwhelming majority of his games so far in his career, he's been average or worse - and that's not up for debate.
Some people insist that the few exceptional games are more representative of Jones' career outlook than the much larger sample of mediocrity he's shown.
I'm sure we'd all love it if he was the guy who threw 13 TDs and 0 INTs in pillow fights against WAS, DET, and NYJ - that's certainly preferable to the guy who has thrown 22 TDs and 22 INTs (plus all the fumbles) in his other 23 starts.
And if you they want to believe that, they're certainly welcome to, though it's foolish to expect everyone to go along with it.
And yes, Daniel Jones is working hard this summer, and given what he's shown so far, HE DAMN WELL SHOULD BE. It's professional football, the results are what matters.
If someone posts nonsense like "every QB does this" then call it out. But that was the only post on this thread that seemed to "push a narrative."
Well, I made this point. It may be overstated - Covid definitely impacted off-season work these last two years - but the fact remains what Jones was doing here wasn't something unusual. And since Jones been an average QB - at best, to date - one should expect him to do these things. I know I do.
Bottom line - I just don't see the need to give this a round of applause. It comes with the job.
If trying to engage is so difficult for you, don't try. You always end up the same way anyway...whining.
Uconn likes being a gatekeeping bitch. That's one reason I lurk more than I post. Can't express a football opinion here without some whiny dipshit like him chiming in. We should be able to bust each others balls on a football site without some fucking nerd analyzing the quality of our posts.
If someone posts nonsense like "every QB does this" then call it out. But that was the only post on this thread that seemed to "push a narrative."
Well, I made this point. It may be overstated - Covid definitely impacted off-season work these last two years - but the fact remains what Jones was doing here wasn't something unusual. And since Jones been an average QB - at best, to date - one should expect him to do these things. I know I do.
Bottom line - I just don't see the need to give this a round of applause. It comes with the job.
If it's so common, how come every QB doesn't do it?
Mahomes, for one, doesn't. And no, obviously I'm not comparing their abilities as a QB. But you stated "every QB does it", and that simply isn't true...
something that "comes with the job" would be compulsory or done on a widespread basis.
What this boiled down to is that bw tried to throw shade on Jones and didn't realize he had little clue on what he was talking about. Now he's relying on the idea that most NFL QB's do this - which they don't.
He seems to be happy to wade in his ignorance as he's come back to still float the same narrative.
reasonable that on a thread about working out with a receiver group that fans hopes have to be tempered.
Even though nobody supposedly cares what people hope for........
One of many contradictions
Fair point.
We should absolutely allow the colors-with-crayons crew to find reasons to celebrate things that genuinely don't matter.
It's not like Britt has a history of starting threads with the intention of picking a fight or anything.
Dude you are so o0verplaying it, it's beyond ridiculous. I have not seen one person ever post that Jones is even half Aaron Rodgers, or saying he hasn't shown negatives.
Find me one. You are mistaking looking at the big picture and relating factors (i.e. TEAM) and showing optimism for him to be better and a good QB this season. And if he doesn't we have 2 first round picks. Meanwhile in EVERY SINGLE THREAD that shows any optimism you get the same 5 or so guys swooping in with the SAME tired shit. If that's fun for you, I guess nobody can stop you. But it sucks to read on EVERY DAMN Jones thread already. Over and over.
If trying to engage is so difficult for you, don't try. You always end up the same way anyway...whining.
Uconn likes being a gatekeeping bitch. That's one reason I lurk more than I post. Can't express a football opinion here without some whiny dipshit like him chiming in. We should be able to bust each others balls on a football site without some fucking nerd analyzing the quality of our posts.
Remember when Barkley dances and the data said he didn’t? Those were good times.
That isn’t gate keeping, that’s providing information to dispel your opinion which you are free to have and I’m free to disagree with.
Mahomes held informal workouts last off-season. Isn't he recovering from an injury now?
I don't expect every workout by other teams to be published. I view this stuff as a puff piece to get the boomers excited about his work ethic since the play on the field has been terrible. I remember when Jacobs was in clear decline, we'd get some article talking about his upcoming bounce back due to how hard he was working in the off-season. Meaningless bullshit.
I have no idea how Jones will turn out but I find it concerning that the things most commonly pointed to are Jones' work ethic and Eli/Simms - guys who entered the league >15 and >40 years ago. SI - ( New Window )
I'd rather Jones never hold these get togethers or even practice if it meant he'd have better pocket presence than a groundhog seeing its fucking shadow.
So Jones works hard. So what? Who gives a shit? He lacks a basic skill required for him to be good at his job. That makes him a bad draft pick, and makes it likely the Giants will look like fools for having stuck with him this long.
Playing QB well in the NFL is really hard. It's no shame on Jones if he can't do it. The problem is the organization acting like he can.
Playing QB well in the NFL is really hard. It's no shame on Jones if he can't do it. The problem is the organization acting like he can.
What do you want them to do - replace him already? Oh wait - sign Nick Fucking Mullens??
The problem actually is coming on every Jones thread to say he can't play well and everyone is just wasting their time thinking he might.
Shhh. It’s 25 games into a career, with some of it injured. It’s not really that possible at this point to know what he has or hasn’t. Period. Just ignore them..
something that "comes with the job" would be compulsory or done on a widespread basis.
What this boiled down to is that bw tried to throw shade on Jones and didn't realize he had little clue on what he was talking about. Now he's relying on the idea that most NFL QB's do this - which they don't.
He seems to be happy to wade in his ignorance as he's come back to still float the same narrative.
I didn't throw shade on Jones. I just didn't give him a trophy for doing something that is indeed regularly done.
But if you want to believe that Jones is breaking down new ground here than by all means enjoy your fantasy...
Patrick Mahomes was ONLY brought up in response to bw's initial post and ONLY because he was one of the two random QB's that immediately came to mind to search.
There was no comparison. There was no saying Daniel Jones is setting an example to other QB's. Nothing like that. Nada.
bw stated that all QB's hold week long passing camps for their skill position players ever year.
They do not. Mahomes and Herbert were just randomly selected, by me, to see if that statement was accurate.
That's it. I thought Jones was showing good leadership and the desire to work his ass off to get better.
That's it. Yet here we are, 165 posts later doing THIS.
Then it should be really easy to find more than 50% of the 32 starting NFL QB's that held week long passing camps for their skill position players THIS offseason.
I personally don't feel compelled to research that, but then again, I didn't inject that into the thread either.
And personally, I don't care about the other 31 QB's in the league....
I care that the Giants QB is doing it. And he's done it at least twice already this offseason. And that shows leadership. And I personally don't care if anybody thinks that's important or not.
It's important to me, as a Giants fan. And I am hopeful, YES HOPEFUL, that all of this extra work pays off this upcoming season.
If anybody has a problem with that, they can shove it, I personally do not care.
Then it should be really easy to find more than 50% of the 32 starting NFL QB's that held week long passing camps for their skill position players THIS offseason.
I personally don't feel compelled to research that, but then again, I didn't inject that into the thread either.
Do whatever research you want. But you certainly did inject an incorrect statement about Mahomes into the thread in an effort to help prop up DJ's actions (which are good but not uncommon). And then others jumped on that incorrect bandwagon to pile on another poster.
But it wasn't true...
RE: You guys are chuckleheads. Mahomes sure as hell did the same
Look, I may have overstated my case on this. But I feel very comfortable that quite a few QBs do this. So when I read some of the adulation that followed that seemed disproportionate to something that wasn't that uncommon.
But you know the 5th Commandment at BBI...Thou Shall Not Criticize The Highly Drafted QB...
There are numerous issues with the way the Giants use puff pieces
1) It allows them to mask the inept jobs that members of their organization do all the time. We got so many stories about how the offensive line was turning around, almost every offseason to sell the idea that what the Giants were doing wasn't actually as irresponsible as it was. As one of many examples.
2) There is a toxic hubris in the organization that has just started to be rooted out since JJ was hired. There is little doubt in my mind that the Giants are convinced that Eli Manning's career and the Giants way caused all those championships, they clearly didn't value Coughlin and probably thought the culture that they pat themselves on the back for so much. Eli is a humble guy and I'm sure fed into this. They told themselves that a smart, driven QB could just plug into the "Giants way" and would be automatically successful. That's why we get these constant Phil Simms and Eli Manning comparisons. They reached big time for Jones because they told themselves this. And all the credit in the world goes to them if they can indeed still do this. But let us not in any way shape or form confuse this working with it being a good idea that they told themselves it was a good idea to overdraft a player that had serious warts and obstacles to becoming an NFL QB #6.
And this shouldn't be a mystery why it's happening to you Britt. If you just fawn all over whoever the Giants QB is, it's going to make it harder to agree with you. People are tired of all of this puffery about the Giants. I think that's where there has become a stark difference on this sight. Some people that just want to soak up all of the ear candy and be told these Giants fairy tales to the max whenever possible. And then people being like, well these fairy tales seem to be a part of the overall story that has seen our organization rot from the inside. I think that is a fair reason to have an aversion to these fairy tales.
I care that the Giants QB is doing it. And he's done it at least twice already this offseason. And that shows leadership. And I personally don't care if anybody thinks that's important or not.
It's important to me, as a Giants fan. And I am hopeful, YES HOPEFUL, that all of this extra work pays off this upcoming season.
If anybody has a problem with that, they can shove it, I personally do not care.
At ANY moment.
You don't represent anything remotely approaching a balanced take. You've been the biggest NYG QB cheerleader for going on two decades now, for two separate QBs. Your ability to view our QB play objectively does not exist.
No one needs to shove anything besides your pom poms.
it was true that Mahomes didn't do it this year, but carry on.
What is also true is that the majority of QB's don't do this. Which is exactly what bw intimated and/or stated flat out was part of the job
Just asking this purely out of curiosity - if the majority of QBs do NOT do this, and presumably that includes the QBs that many of us would consider in the upper echelon/elite group, does this offseason "leadership" actually have any correlation with winning football games?
It's presumably not a detriment, for sure. But is it actually any sort of advantage that we should be celebrating?
Or is this just another attempt by Britt to pick a fight and prove that he's the world's #1 Giants fan?
Patrick Mahomes was ONLY brought up in response to bw's initial post and ONLY because he was one of the two random QB's that immediately came to mind to search.
There was no comparison. There was no saying Daniel Jones is setting an example to other QB's. Nothing like that. Nada.
bw stated that all QB's hold week long passing camps for their skill position players ever year.
They do not. Mahomes and Herbert were just randomly selected, by me, to see if that statement was accurate.
That's it. I thought Jones was showing good leadership and the desire to work his ass off to get better.
That's it. Yet here we are, 165 posts later doing THIS.
And there it is.
NYG's #1 superfan likes to count how many posts his threads generate.
Patrick Mahomes was ONLY brought up in response to bw's initial post and ONLY because he was one of the two random QB's that immediately came to mind to search.
There was no comparison. There was no saying Daniel Jones is setting an example to other QB's. Nothing like that. Nada.
bw stated that all QB's hold week long passing camps for their skill position players ever year.
They do not. Mahomes and Herbert were just randomly selected, by me, to see if that statement was accurate.
That's it. I thought Jones was showing good leadership and the desire to work his ass off to get better.
That's it. Yet here we are, 165 posts later doing THIS.
And there it is.
NYG's #1 superfan likes to count how many posts his threads generate.
You're the one talking about likes and ratios. I had to look up what ratioed even meant. I don't do Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, or whatever else it is you kids are looking at these days.
you've come back to continue with the narrative, I don't think the escape hatch is in play.
Just look at the NFC East teams. Jones is the only one to hold these workouts. Hurts actually worked out with a group of WR's from around the league - not his own team.
Again - Carolina hasn't had a QB hold workouts since Jake Delhomme.
But hey - if you want to revel in spreading a false narrative, have at it, Ace. Wouldn't be the first time.
RE: RE: RE: Some of you are WAY overthinking this.
Patrick Mahomes was ONLY brought up in response to bw's initial post and ONLY because he was one of the two random QB's that immediately came to mind to search.
There was no comparison. There was no saying Daniel Jones is setting an example to other QB's. Nothing like that. Nada.
bw stated that all QB's hold week long passing camps for their skill position players ever year.
They do not. Mahomes and Herbert were just randomly selected, by me, to see if that statement was accurate.
That's it. I thought Jones was showing good leadership and the desire to work his ass off to get better.
That's it. Yet here we are, 165 posts later doing THIS.
And there it is.
NYG's #1 superfan likes to count how many posts his threads generate.
You're the one talking about likes and ratios. I had to look up what ratioed even meant. I don't do Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, or whatever else it is you kids are looking at these days.
LOL, "you kids."
We're the same fucking age. You're just out of touch with anything that doesn't involve a Giants QB.
in 2021 given his experience, roster improvements, and a full training camp, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
If you believe Jones simply doesn't have the talent to succeed as an NFL QB and are frustrated that the Giants are sticking with him, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
If you are in the middle and hoping for some improvement but skeptical...well that is fine too.
But if you can't understand that others on this site holds one of those other, valid opinions...YOU ARE THE FUCKING PROBLEM WITH THIS SITE.
And if you start a thread about Daniel Jones, you should understand people will post their opinions about Daniel Jones on said thread.
had the worst supporting cast in the league last year. He had no chance to play well. None. There is no evaluation that is worth 2 shits.
The guys inside the building - from Judge to the bevy of offensive and defensive teammates who have gone on record - seem to absolutely love the guy and back him 100%.
That's what speaks volumes. He's not getting lip-service. He's won over the guys who know what's going on. Everyone knows this is the year he has to produce. But he has done the work to earn respect where it counts.
had the worst supporting cast in the league last year. He had no chance to play well. None. There is no evaluation that is worth 2 shits.
The guys inside the building - from Judge to the bevy of offensive and defensive teammates who have gone on record - seem to absolutely love the guy and back him 100%.
That's what speaks volumes. He's not getting lip-service. He's won over the guys who know what's going on. Everyone knows this is the year he has to produce. But he has done the work to earn respect where it counts.
There is absolutely no question that the entire Giants franchise backs Jones. He has their full support and endorsements up and down the chain of command.
But he hasn't yet demonstrated a consistent level of play that matches the confidence that the organization has in him. I agree, he's been hamstrung to some degree by the supporting cast he's had (although I maintain that there's some validity to the argument that a great QB elevates those around him rather than being sunk by them, but I digress). This year, with a much improved WR corps, a solid move-the-chains TE, a (hopefully) healthy Barkley, and what should be a better OL, there should no longer be any excuses. Anything can happen, injuries might blow the whole thing up, etc. But if this offensive group as currently assembled cannot show significant improvement from last year with Jones at the helm, all the votes of confidence in the world won't magically make DJ a franchise QB.
He's an open question. He's not a bust by any stretch. But he's not a hit yet either. He has to take the next step, and it's going to have to be a pretty significant one if we're going to be a winning team.
RE: We can remove Justin Herbert from the naughty list too
had the worst supporting cast in the league last year. He had no chance to play well. None. There is no evaluation that is worth 2 shits.
The guys inside the building - from Judge to the bevy of offensive and defensive teammates who have gone on record - seem to absolutely love the guy and back him 100%.
That's what speaks volumes. He's not getting lip-service. He's won over the guys who know what's going on. Everyone knows this is the year he has to produce. But he has done the work to earn respect where it counts.
And none of it matters if he doesn't produce. The QB can't just be a "roleplayer"
Also, who was responsible for giving DJ such a garbage supporting cast? Was it not the same person who drafted DJ? If he messed up the rest of the roster how can anyone be certain he was right about DJ?
IMO Jones should be viewed through the same lens as every other DG decision prior to the arrival of Judge: as a mistake
RE: RE: We can remove Justin Herbert from the naughty list too
I am going to assume we are done with these examples, right?
LOL. You posted an article about a minicamp practice. One that was team organized. Really reaching here, but not surprising.
LOL. I guess you didn’t read the linked article…
“Herbert had taken steps towards learning Lombardi's offense prior to OTAs. He spoke to Brees, who won a Super Bowl with Lombardi serving as his quarterbacks coach. Herbert also reached out to his new center, All-Pro Corey Linsley. He began throwing passes with Keenan Allen and several other teammates well before the start of voluntary team activities. “
I will admit that I haven't read this entire thread
LOL. You posted an article about a minicamp practice. One that was team organized. Really reaching here, but not surprising.
Give me your address and I'll send you a crowbar to help you remove your foot from your mouth. Per the article...
Quote:
Herbert also reached out to his new center, All-Pro Corey Linsley. He began throwing passes with Keenan Allen and several other teammates well before the start of voluntary team activities.
How exactly are we assessing who is a good leader or bad leader at
How are we getting to the idea that DJ is a better leader than an average NFL QB?
It seems like many people want to use how many people gush about a player in the media as the metric. It would be easy to argue that is a conscious effort to raise the confidence of a player as it is real leadership qualities. Or an effort to justify the significant resources invested in said player already.
How many other QBs would people identify as good leaders that haven't done much of any winning in college or the pros?
I am very specifically not saying we know him for sure to be a bad leader, I just have no idea what tangible things we have to point to that says he is indeed a good leader. To me the best leaders are results oriented not about optics. Full stop.
RE: RE: We can remove Justin Herbert from the naughty list too
Ultimately the best way to lead is to win. And be integral in that process - game winning drives, running out the clock, key first down plays, etc. That's what makes teammates follow you.
Look, what's being reported here on Jones is exactly what he should be doing. He's struggled with consistency and performance through two years. So he needs to be optimizing his time trying to get better.
Let's hope all this work pays a big dividend on the field...
and I'm glad he's trying to put in the work to connect with his teammates because you can't have a good leader without your teammates trusting you and probably liking you as well.
On the flip side though, nothing is going to annoy teammates or veterans more than you putting the ball on the ground or throwing it to the other team. It doesn't matter how likable you are, that "trust" will erode pretty fast.
That's why especially all this lip service seems manufactured. Until you win games these honeymoon off-season's could turn tense pretty quickly in the games. If you are winning you can get away with turnovers. But if you are losing and turning the ball over, forget it. Anyone that wants to say you are a good leader when you pull that is doing so for a purpose other than being honest.
Who knows if Jones pans out but as I mentioned more than a few times in the past, at this point I REALLY want him to kick ass and chew bubble gum this upcoming season just so I don't have to wade through this ridiculous bullshit on every G*D*mn Jones thread for AT LEAST a month... Hell I'll take even just a SOLID DAY at this point... LMAO
Do you honestly think anyone here doesn't want Jones to kick ass?
Does that really need to be said? Even the most cantankerous people would be pulling quite the long con spending a bunch of time on a team they don't want to succeed.
The problem is that when optimistic narratives are heavily passed off as the truth it has given the team too much cover to wallow in shit. It honestly never ceases to amaze me how much this continues despite how bad it has gotten. I swear, we could go 3-13 this year and some of you would be like we went .500 in our last 4 games! We are only one year removed from the pandemic, Jones needs another year to know what we've got!
I still am in shock that someone took issue with someone mocking the ownership group on a thread about us being the worst team in terms of posting a winning record. That's not even hyperbole, I read it a few times to make sure I actually saw what I saw.
that continue to insist that people who doubt Jones are bad fans, miserable people, and drooling idiots.
Everyone on this site is hoping that Jones has a stellar year and is the Giants QB for the long term. That means the Giants are winning, which is what all of us want.
If we could lose the fan virtue signalers who insist all fans must hold the same opinions, simple threads like this would stop becoming days long train wrecks.
RE: There is a small minority of fans on this site
that continue to insist that people who doubt Jones are bad fans, miserable people, and drooling idiots.
Everyone on this site is hoping that Jones has a stellar year and is the Giants QB for the long term. That means the Giants are winning, which is what all of us want.
If we could lose the fan virtue signalers who insist all fans must hold the same opinions, simple threads like this would stop becoming days long train wrecks.
Quote:
Everyone on this site is hoping that Jones has a stellar year and is the Giants QB for the long term. That means the Giants are winning, which is what all of us want.
Mike, most, yes. Some absolutely not. I will not name names, but we know..
that continue to insist that people who doubt Jones are bad fans, miserable people, and drooling idiots.
Everyone on this site is hoping that Jones has a stellar year and is the Giants QB for the long term. That means the Giants are winning, which is what all of us want.
If we could lose the fan virtue signalers who insist all fans must hold the same opinions, simple threads like this would stop becoming days long train wrecks.
Quote:
Everyone on this site is hoping that Jones has a stellar year and is the Giants QB for the long term. That means the Giants are winning, which is what all of us want.
Mike, most, yes. Some absolutely not. I will not name names, but we know..
I don't believe that at all. I think there are people that are convinced (probably too much so) that Jones can't succeed as an NFL QB and are anxious for the Giants to move on from him. I don't think that is the same thing as hoping he fails. Those fans are frustrated by the Giants losing and will view things much differently if Jones can change that.
Is there some degree of "I don't want to be on the wrong side of this?" Absolutely. Unfortunately this board is full of posters who flaunt when they are right and disappear when they are wrong. And that is also on both sides of the issue.
It's why these threads become so ludicrous.
Ok buddy, we can disagree on some of that albeit salient
The DJ debate as of now is relatively easy, at least for me. I think he’ll be fine, but how the hell do I really know? I don’t neither does anyone else, imv. This is a probable telling year for him.
See how flucking easy that is? :)
RE: Ok buddy, we can disagree on some of that albeit salient
The DJ debate as of now is relatively easy, at least for me. I think he’ll be fine, but how the hell do I really know? I don’t neither does anyone else, imv. This is a probable telling year for him.
See how flucking easy that is? :)
What makes smart people smart is knowing what they don't know. We all have opinions on what we think Jones will be, which may differ from what we want him to be.
Absolutely nobody knows for sure what he will be. If more people realized their opinion was just that - an opinion that may be right or wrong - we'd stop having this idiocy.
But I do believe everyone on this site is a Giants fan and wants the Giants to win. Once we start calling people's fandom or motives into question, we moved from a discussion to a pissing contest.
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
9m
Daniel Jones at it again. This time back at Duke working out with his old
@DukeFOOTBALL
friend Jamison Crowder. If it doesn’t work out, certainly won’t be for lack of effort. Dude’s work ethic is off the charts.
Link - ( New Window )
“He’s ambitious. It’s almost sneaky-competitor, he’s a guy who’s very laid back, you’re going to sleep on him, but he’s going to outrun you, he’s going to out-bench you, do whatever he needs to do to get better, but he’s going to do it in a silent manner to take care of business. I’m a big fan of Daniel Jones, and I’m happy he’s our quarterback.”
And these are defensive players….
Link - ( New Window )
Just what the doctor ordered!
Beat me to it!
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
If those were the only qualities that made a successful NFL QB, the Giants would be all set for the next decade. He also comes across as a pretty bright guy.
Will be be better when plays break down and things don’t go according to plan? For me at least, that is where he needs to improve by leaps and bounds from his first two season.
It is great he is doing these things and it can only help him and the team. But effort and leadership has not been the missing piece with him.
If those were the only qualities that made a successful NFL QB, the Giants would be all set for the next decade. He also comes across as a pretty bright guy.
Will be be better when plays break down and things don’t go according to plan? For me at least, that is where he needs to improve by leaps and bounds from his first two season.
It is great he is doing these things and it can only help him and the team. But effort and leadership has not been the missing piece with him.
Will be be better when plays break down and things don’t go according to plan? For me at least, that is where he needs to improve by leaps and bounds from his first two season.
Absolutely. But this year (hopefully), when things do break down (for whatever reason), he’ll be able to use his legs, from time to time, imv
I hope they can figure out how to take advantage of the improved talent...and allow Jones....some margin of error.
Since, he has been here....the WRs take too long to seperate....abd force him into contested catched.
After reading some of the posts, if I thought it went without saying, I wouldn't have said it
And no Engram. I guess without defensive backs to deflect the ball to he would feel lost.
And that’s why all of these extra workouts are so crucial. Developing timing and rapport with his targets.
Quote:
but don’t all NFL QBs do this?
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
I expect an NFL QB to organize these sessions and work hard during the off-season. That's part of the job. So I am just not as impressed as you are with this news.
He probably saw this on a flier.
Wilmington Gun Show - ( New Window )
No, many don't do this. It's beneficial to the WR and his receivers to their timing down especially due to the limited practice time in training camp.
LOL. Of course you're trying to rain on the parade or you wouldn't have chimed in with an ill-informed comment just to take yet another swipe at a Giant.
And since it was purposeful, you completely tried to rain on the parade.
The bigger question is why the continual need to?
Quote:
but don’t all NFL QBs do this?
LOL. Of course you're trying to rain on the parade or you wouldn't have chimed in with an ill-informed comment just to take yet another swipe at a Giant.
And since it was purposeful, you completely tried to rain on the parade.
The bigger question is why the continual need to?
Don't even bother. Dude is misery personified. It's pathetic.
If I'm not mistaken, this is Jones' second, if not third, week long destination passing camp this offseason. And this is a complete guess, but it's completely possible he's paying for this, or some semblance of the travel, on his own dime.
Not to mention the multiple times he's been seen on high school football fields in Jersey this offseason working out individual receivers like Golladay right after we signed him. Or regularly taking his teammates to dinner or Knicks games.
If you can't acknowledge that this is above and beyond the call of duty to further ensure that your Sundays may be a bit more entertaining this year, then I guess whatever.
Our players are working out. You can't acknowledge that's good?
Our players are working out. You can't acknowledge that's good?
That would mean saying a Giants player is doing something.
I for one am glad to hear these guys want to be working out together
"Not trying to rain on the parade here..."
Umm yes you so are. Always. On any Jones thread.... lol.
"Not trying to rain on the parade here..."
Umm yes you so are. Always. On any Jones thread.... lol.
Why the fuck isn't he focusing on football!!!
Quote:
and someone would find a way to shit on it, guaranteed.
Why the fuck isn't he focusing on football!!!
Not to rain on the parade, but Heart Disease kills more people than cancer every year.
"At Penn State, Brown watched players like Trace McSorely and Micah Parsons rally their units and light fires up under the Nittany Lions. Luckily for Brown, the will to win from his team leaders has only gotten stronger at the next level."
Trace McSorely???? Oof
In comment 15298716 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
“I fell in love with Daniel after the first week I hung out with him going through training camp last summer,” Brown said. “He’s just a different type of competitor.
“He’s ambitious. It’s almost sneaky-competitor, he’s a guy who’s very laid back, you’re going to sleep on him, but he’s going to outrun you, he’s going to out-bench you, do whatever he needs to do to get better, but he’s going to do it in a silent manner to take care of business. I’m a big fan of Daniel Jones, and I’m happy he’s our quarterback.”
And these are defensive players…. Link - ( New Window )
Remember the last 1st round WR we drafted missed ALL OF TRAINING CAMP + THE FIRST 4 GAMES! So what if Toney didn't practice with the 1s during OTAs, let the kid learn the fucking playbook before you crucify him for Christ's sake
He’s got the tools and the talent to become a top 10 qb, he just needs to put it all together and make good decisions/protect the ball. I really think having a normal offseason is going to do wonders for him, and if this o-line develops to give him some time, he can shred a secondary with his ball placement.
LOL. Keep on keeping on.
We all fucking know why.
We all fucking know why.
And what would anyone’s motive be to even bother reading what they write?
Clearly it isn't an aversion to rain on a parade, no matter what is typed.
Sort of like the old, "I don't mean to sound critical" lead-in, which ALWAYS means you want to sound critical!
Clearly it isn't an aversion to rain on a parade, no matter what is typed.
Sort of like the old, "I don't mean to sound critical" lead-in, which ALWAYS means you want to sound critical!
Yup, it’s the same negative shit repeated over and over and over and over again. Negative takes are fine, but we GET WHERE THE FUCK YOU’RE COMING FROM ALREADY! Ok, I’m fine now…😎
Considering the way Jones has played for two years, this seems like the least he should be doing, and what everyone should expect.
Our players are working out. You can't acknowledge that's good?
I’m really confused. Who is arguing that this is bad news?
Is there anyone on this board claiming Jones hasn’t played well the past few years because he is lazy, or his teammates don’t respect him?
What he is doing is a good thing. Nobody is arguing it isn’t. The question being raised is whether it will be impactful this season. Hard work I has never seemed to be an element of his game that was missing. Because of that, him working hard isn’t necessarily putting minds at ease.
Considering the way Jones has played for two years, this seems like the least he should be doing, and what everyone should expect.
No nobody is acting like that. It's just tiring seeing your constant put downs of the guy even when it's a positive discussion about his leadership qualities.
Quote:
In comment 15298723 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but don’t all NFL QBs do this?
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
I expect an NFL QB to organize these sessions and work hard during the off-season. That's part of the job. So I am just not as impressed as you are with this news.
Shocking you won't give Jones credit for anything.
Obviously, Vick was dogging it
Quote:
Many are acting like what Jones is doing is something super special here and we should all genuflect. There is always this romance that only Giants players work hard in the off-season. Please.
Considering the way Jones has played for two years, this seems like the least he should be doing, and what everyone should expect.
No nobody is acting like that. It's just tiring seeing your constant put downs of the guy even when it's a positive discussion about his leadership qualities.
No, I'd be putting down Jones if he wasn't doing this.
Again, it's all about expectations. You don't expect this from Jones?
To me, this is part of Jones's job description. For others, it seems, this is worth a big round of applause...
For all you know, he isn't. I'll wait for the Instagram confirmation.
Shocking you won't give Jones credit for anything.
Credit for doing his job in preparing for the season? A crucial season?
Sorry, but this is Jones meeting my expectations.
Quote:
Shocking you won't give Jones credit for anything.
Credit for doing his job in preparing for the season? A crucial season?
Sorry, but this is Jones meeting my expectations.
Boy do I wish there was a block feature on this board.
Go Terps : 2:10 pm : link : reply
Talent is.
The talent is self evident to all but cave fish.....yr 1 misses preseason and breaks records
Yr.2 ...endures the perfect storm but leads entire league in long throws.
Essentially this. Who gives a fuck if he’s playing catch with some teammates somewhere? It’s time to show results on the field. Everything else is fluff.
Second, in his second year Covid comes along with a new coaching staff so there is no real, true pre-season to learn in. The learning curve as the first four games against veteran coached teams so they lost, lost, lostand lost. But they played hard. They lost Barkley their only HR threat. Tate got old; Slayton hurt his foot; Shepard missed games; TE's missed balls or didn't develop.
This was a NEW OFFENSE with almost no talent and when Barkley went down they were so limited. Also, Jones hurt his leg and that took away his legs and ability to make something out of nothing.
Third, why I am optimistic: this is going to be his second year in the same system and he'll have a camp to learn and develop. The OL should be better though yes admittedly that is debatable until the games begin. But in Judge and the coaches I trust. It is all gut right now but I sense positiveness and I see young, hungry guys. Jones stats when given time are very very good.
I like our first two games against Denver @ home followed by Washington on a short road game. I believe we win both mainly because unless injuries hit we are the more balanced team in each affair. I'd love for us to have a 42 - 10 opening day blowout where we rest our regulars in the 4th quarter and allow the young guys to get reps. I'd love for us to go to WFT and compete and win what will be a tough game I'm sure.
Jones will open strong because I think this team is the most talent, balanced of possibly the last decade, since our SB win.
I'm sticking with 10 - 7, giver or take a game, and we win this division and a playoff game MINIMUM. I honestly believe that.
Right? I feel like thats recent. Maybe Im wrong but I thought of him as lanky/wirey in Detroit.
Quote:
Work ethic isn't the question
Go Terps : 2:10 pm : link : reply
Talent is.
The talent is self evident to all but cave fish.....yr 1 misses preseason and breaks records
Yr.2 ...endures the perfect storm but leads entire league in long throws.
So you think all of the articles and analysis done around Jones are written by cave fish?
These are the types of comments that get ridiculed. It is just as dumb as labeling him a bust.
The one thing we know about Jones at this exact moment is that his NFL career is dependent on this season. The claims at both ends of the spectrum are beliefs, not facts.
Quote:
Work ethic isn't the question
Go Terps : 2:10 pm : link : reply
Talent is.
The talent is self evident to all but cave fish.....yr 1 misses preseason and breaks records
Yr.2 ...endures the perfect storm but leads entire league in long throws.
Well, he’s no Jonathan Ogden...
Quote:
Quote:
Work ethic isn't the question
Go Terps : 2:10 pm : link : reply
Talent is.
The talent is self evident to all but cave fish.....yr 1 misses preseason and breaks records
Yr.2 ...endures the perfect storm but leads entire league in long throws.
So you think all of the articles and analysis done around Jones are written by cave fish?
These are the types of comments that get ridiculed. It is just as dumb as labeling him a bust.
The one thing we know about Jones at this exact moment is that his NFL career is dependent on this season. The claims at both ends of the spectrum are beliefs, not facts.
The key is Barkley being healthy and being explosive again along with being that dump off receiver who can make the first guy miss and perhaps have a few big plays in the passing game.
That is certainly something that can get better, and I hope it does. I don’t want to see the Giants have to spend another top pick on a QB and go through this process again.
I think everyone would love to see a big season out of Jones. I think there is a good possibility we do. But I still have my doubts about him based off of what I have seen.
Better in game performance isn't just going to magically appear. It will come through practice and experience and a good offensive system / playcalling. Jones can't control the system and playcalling, but he can practice, practice and more practice, with the actual guys he will be playing with.
So for anyone who is skeptical of Jones ability, isn't this what you want to see? Should be very glad.
Go get it Jones!!
Let's Go Giants!
Let's Go Giants!
This idea that fans who doubt Jones are haters is idiotic. I have my doubts about Jones, but nobody on this site is rooting for him to succeed more than I am.
This idea that all judgments need to be made with your heart is something I will never understand.
In the not to distant past, it was accepted that an NFL QB needed about 3 years to develop. Jones shows signs and ability. I do believe those that say his pocket awareness is the issue, plus it has led to being striped too often. Despite his injury he seemed to hold the ball better toward the end of the year .... we will see.
Big year for DJ, he can practice his ass off and get to know his receivers as well as possible, but if he still cannot feel the pocket and make the correct reads quickly he will need to be replaced.
But really, what this thread is about, should be universally praised.
We all fucking know why.
To piss on the parade?
But really, what this thread is about, should be universally praised.
It doesn't even have to be universally praised. But to act as if most QB's do this or throw in some BS comment about his talent being an issue is just finding ways to knock Jones.
Here in Carolina, the last QB I can remember having guys together for drills was Jake Delhomme. Cam did a lot of work with youth camps in the area, but didn't get his WR's together for this type of thing. Heck, Jalen Hurts this offseason went to work out with a group of WR's from other teams. I don't think the Redskins have had QB organized workouts in several years.
But from some of the commentary, you'd think that not only is is happening everywhere, it is expected. Why that narrative is being written and who the posters are writing it are what to question.
But really, what this thread is about, should be universally praised.
I wrote a positive comment. A bunch of others did as well. And mixed in with that were a few comments about this is no big deal or what they really want to see with Jones.
So what in the world got stifled? Nothing really.
If anything, a post that didn’t praise Daniel Jones just got a bunch of you all mumped up...
If you are looking for universal agreement on something maybe post about the 86 Giants or Michael Strahan. You know there are differing opinions on his future and you have to know that many we will read this thread and think “great, but…”
It’s really ok for everyone to not hold the same opinion.
Well there really isn’t negative. And you also don’t get to decide what people want to post.
What’s next…a post isn’t positive enough for you?
If you are looking for universal agreement on something maybe post about the 86 Giants or Michael Strahan. You know there are differing opinions on his future and you have to know that many we will read this thread and think “great, but…”
It’s really ok for everyone to not hold the same opinion.
Actually, I could provide some negatives on Strahan… :)
If you are looking for universal agreement on something maybe post about the 86 Giants or Michael Strahan. You know there are differing opinions on his future and you have to know that many we will read this thread and think “great, but…”
It’s really ok for everyone to not hold the same opinion.
Ha. There won’t be universal agreement on the 86 Giants or Strahan.
nor is there need to have it…
To review:
*Golden Tate at #1 WR
*Breaking in rookie OLine
*Lost 1 player he couldn't lose (Barkley) in week 2
*Engram making a weekly soul-crushing mistake
*Receivers as a group got the least amount of separation in the NFL
*All the while playing in NY, and not losing his head with the media
Just like at Duke, he had nothing to work with. Jones actually performed well given the sh#tshow circumstances and his own lack of experience. That's why Judge loves him. I thought he very clearly "grew up" midseason when they stomped the Eagles. Go back and watch the week 17 win vs. DAL - he's clearly injured but engineers a nice win. He's got nothing around him that would threaten an NFL Defense.
This will be the first year since High School he actually has good relative talent around him. I think he's going to produce.
Happy fourth!
The other praise worthy factor is guys like Shepard and Golladay who’ve been paid and know the NFL, who don’t need the reps as much. Good for them to attend.
There is a little hyperbole in my view with Jones. At Duke he had a TE and WR sign for a cup of coffee in the NFL. I wonder what guys Allen had in college.
Jones also played better as a midseason replacement in 2019 with arguably as bad a line and WR group. The league clearly figured him out in some respects, now he has to adjust as all good QBs so.
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Shocker.
Beat me to it!
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but don’t all NFL QBs do this?
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
That Patrick Mahomes sure could learn a thing or two from Daniel Jones!
Do you realize how absurd that sounds?
I don't think it is unreasonable at all that a QB waiting for his receivers to get open, get separation, is a real factor in hanging on to the ball...too long. He's a competitor trying to make plays. I don't think it is unreasonable at all that the NFL's worst OL in QB hits has something to do with the OL, as well as contribution from the QB. We can all hope that there has been enough done in the off-season to resolve where the dysfunction lay, or lies, can we not? As christian in his thread the other day laid bare with his selection, the OL remains the biggest ??. If the OL resolves that with a decisive move toward competence, then we will see what we have in DJ.
There are also things that can be done in training to improve decision making and recognition. Years ago I remember Donovan McNabb was practicing while wearing shutter glasses, so he had to learn to make his decisions with incomplete information and obscured vision. I don't know how much of a difference that made for McNabb and I don't know whether that's a solution for Jones. He seems to have great rapport with his teammates, good leadership qualities, he's fast, he's an accurate passer. If he can make better, faster decisions, we'll see a huge leap in his game.
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In comment 15298723 bw in dc said:
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but don’t all NFL QBs do this?
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
That Patrick Mahomes sure could learn a thing or two from Daniel Jones!
Do you realize how absurd that sounds?
That does sound absurd. However, I didn’t say that or even imply it. Maybe read what I wrote again in the context of the question I was responding to. Patrick Mahomes, and Justin Herbert for that matter, were the first two QB’s that randomly came to mind.
26 Games: Eli: 34 TDs, 29 INTs, 5011 Passing yards
26 Games: DJ: 35 TDs, 22 INTs, 5970 Passing Yards
Even through the first half of year four Eli was getting killed by the fans as a bust or probable bust. And he won the SB that year... year 4.
Sure we want to see DJ make a big step this season. But even if he makes small improvements only, it doesn't mean he won't be a legit NFL starting QB.
Slow your roll people....
They fail to see simple things like, Jones improved the second half is last year, played faster as he for more comfortable, his second year in the same system LIKELY will yield more improvement. But it doesn’t fit their narrative that he can’t play, so they dump on him every chance they get. Not enough people left around here they try to see things from both sides which is a shame.
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and training camp.
Our players are working out. You can't acknowledge that's good?
I’m really confused. Who is arguing that this is bad news?
Is there anyone on this board claiming Jones hasn’t played well the past few years because he is lazy, or his teammates don’t respect him?
What he is doing is a good thing. Nobody is arguing it isn’t. The question being raised is whether it will be impactful this season. Hard work I has never seemed to be an element of his game that was missing. Because of that, him working hard isn’t necessarily putting minds at ease.
I mean, I think every little bit of extra effort/work that goes into the offseason can have an impact. Like, obviously it's not like this one thing is going to change the Giants record from 7-10 to 13-4 or something, but let's not take these extra practices/workouts for granted. Yes we know DJ has a great work ethic, but it's also nice to be reminded of it every once in awhile. Extra work isn't going to guarantee that he has a breakout year, but at the same time he also definitely WON'T have a breakout year if he DOESN'T put in the extra work.
Getting in extra practice as opposed to going on vacation is absolutely the type of thing that can separate the winners from the losers. I know fans/media often blow things like this out of proportion, but at the same time it's not like this is just absolutely nothing at all. It's worth mentioning and applauding IMO.
Imagine this was a thread about Evan Engram and his rigorous offseason training program. That would be a good thing. But how many people would be posting “yeah great, but is he working on catching the ball?”
Nobody has ever questioned Jones’ leadership and work ethic. Timing and familiarity with his receivers can only help. But I don’t think anyone believed those elements were what was holding him back last year.
Opinions of the Giants team, ownership, coaching and players vary widely. Posters need to stop looking at differing opinions as character flaws or evidence of idiocy. It’s those posters that are threatened by opposing opinions that make actual discussion of this team a near impossibility.
Anything else I can clear up for you? Please let me know....
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In comment 15298727 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 15298723 bw in dc said:
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but don’t all NFL QBs do this?
Do they? All of them? I just randomly googled Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert and didn’t see anything about them gathering teammates for private workouts. I’m sure some do but there’s no need to downplay this as nothing to see. He’s working his ass off this off-season.
That Patrick Mahomes sure could learn a thing or two from Daniel Jones!
Do you realize how absurd that sounds?
That does sound absurd. However, I didn’t say that or even imply it. Maybe read what I wrote again in the context of the question I was responding to. Patrick Mahomes, and Justin Herbert for that matter, were the first two QB’s that randomly came to mind.
That's true, you didn't say that or even imply it.
What you might logically have taken from that, however, is that there may not be any correlation between offseason leadership (or however you'd like to phrase it) and in-season performance. That a great QB will play like a great QB whether he gathers his teammates in the offseason or not; and there's no evidence to suggest that the offseason leadership that DJ is exhibiting - in absence of any other individual improvement on his part - will make a difference on the field. Unless the implication is that someone like Mahomes could be even better if he would just be more of a leader in the offseason.
I'm rooting for DJ to succeed this year and beyond every bit as much as you are - the Giants' opportunity to become a contender again relies on it. I'm just not looking for every crumb of forced praise along the way.
That's not "raining on the parade" that's reality in a results-based world.
He's an easy to kid to root for, there's SOME glimmer of hope that he pans out and all signs point to the fact that the Giants are going to see this thing through to the end.
SO for now... I'm going to support #6 at this point until:
1.) he starts winning and everyone is happy
OR
2.) he continues to lose and DJ and DG go at the end of the season.
There's no other options at this point.
Opinions of the Giants team, ownership, coaching and players vary widely. Posters need to stop looking at differing opinions as character flaws or evidence of idiocy. It’s those posters that are threatened by opposing opinions that make actual discussion of this team a near impossibility.
It should apply to every player. There are certain things that can be debated about performance, but if there is a thread about Engram gathering the TE's and doing a workout, it shouldn't be a referendum on his hands.
There are some posts that should just be viewed positively and yet there are some that just can't help themselves to push their narrative across, just like in this thread.
You really want an OP to remark how Daniel Jones is doing some extra stuff this offseason and 20 lemmings posting “I agree”?
And there is always the ability to ignore the dissenting opinion if you choose. Or attack it, as seems the case above from plenty who offered no other thoughts of their own on the topic.
You really want an OP to remark how Daniel Jones is doing some extra stuff this offseason and 20 lemmings posting “I agree”?
And there is always the ability to ignore the dissenting opinion if you choose. Or attack it, as seems the case above from plenty who offered no other thoughts of their own on the topic.
You're right. It's always best to have the same few posters come in with the same points and shit all over Jones even on something positive, positive articles, etc. posted about him.
And if someone is going to chime in saying this is the usual practice, they probably should be confident enough that they aren't talking out of their ass and it should be common knowledge that most QB's do this for every team (which they don't). So in the zeal to take a potshot, that poster can't even provide the right information to complain about.
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Imposing too many boundaries serves no purpose on a discussion board.
You really want an OP to remark how Daniel Jones is doing some extra stuff this offseason and 20 lemmings posting “I agree”?
And there is always the ability to ignore the dissenting opinion if you choose. Or attack it, as seems the case above from plenty who offered no other thoughts of their own on the topic.
You're right. It's always best to have the same few posters come in with the same points and shit all over Jones even on something positive, positive articles, etc. posted about him.
Is it better to have other posters come in with the same points and praise Jones or default to let’s wait and see even on something negative, negative articles, etc. posted about him?
It’s all fair game.
And if someone is going to chime in saying this is the usual practice, they probably should be confident enough that they aren't talking out of their ass and it should be common knowledge that most QB's do this for every team (which they don't). So in the zeal to take a potshot, that poster can't even provide the right information to complain about.
Copy my response given to the other poster.
And agree that if one is talking out of their ass then they are subject to being taken to the woodshed. Not sure anyone here was though.
Is it better to have other posters come in with the same points and praise Jones or default to let’s wait and see even on something negative, negative articles, etc. posted about him?
It’s all fair game.
Of course it's fair game. It's a message board. That doesn't mean it's not completely old and tired on literally EVERY. SINGLE. THREAD.
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Why does that apply to Jones, and not someone like Evan Engram? People shit on Engram all the time (often rightly so for crucial drops). Why is it alright to criticize him and call constantly for him to be cut or benched, but when we move on to Jones it is “no negative comments please!”
Opinions of the Giants team, ownership, coaching and players vary widely. Posters need to stop looking at differing opinions as character flaws or evidence of idiocy. It’s those posters that are threatened by opposing opinions that make actual discussion of this team a near impossibility.
It should apply to every player. There are certain things that can be debated about performance, but if there is a thread about Engram gathering the TE's and doing a workout, it shouldn't be a referendum on his hands.
There are some posts that should just be viewed positively and yet there are some that just can't help themselves to push their narrative across, just like in this thread.
And if one of those posters starts a thread critical about Jones, they will also be criticized for "pushing a narrative?"
When you view all praise of Jones as insightful and intelligent posts, and all criticisms of Jones as a narrative, it's time to re-evaluate your own objectivity.
But it seems many posters don't want objective, they want views straight from Giants.com.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
Why is criticism of a player who has been, to date, a rather glaring disappointment given his draft slot considered to be "shit all over" him?
If he stops sucking as an NFL starter, then you'll see much less negativity.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
Everyone understands what the post was about. Nobody argued that it was bad, or reflected poorly on Jones. The point was made that the two traits it demonstrated - hard work and leadership - were never in doubt with Jones. Seeing him demonstrating traits that were never in doubt wasn't exactly newsworthy (which says a lot about Jones).
If the request here is "if a thread praises Jones for leadership, only responses about Jones' leadership are allowed" that is silly. Discussions don't follow such narrow paths.
If someone posts nonsense like "every QB does this" then call it out. But that was the only post on this thread that seemed to "push a narrative."
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You're right. It's always best to have the same few posters come in with the same points and shit all over Jones even on something positive, positive articles, etc. posted about him.
Why is criticism of a player who has been, to date, a rather glaring disappointment given his draft slot considered to be "shit all over" him?
If he stops sucking as an NFL starter, then you'll see much less negativity.
If OP wants to turn off comments and just get likes, Twitter has that option.
It's great that Daniel Jones is putting in the work with his new teammates this summer. What would be better is if he played a LOT better than he has so far in his career.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
People feel compelled to post negative comments because his play generates negative feelings for anyone who wants to see the Giants win.
Two years in, Daniel Jones sucks. Hopefully he doesn't suck in year three.
The rest, like the story in the thread starter, doesn't matter.
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In comment 15300071 Johnny5 said:
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You're right. It's always best to have the same few posters come in with the same points and shit all over Jones even on something positive, positive articles, etc. posted about him.
Why is criticism of a player who has been, to date, a rather glaring disappointment given his draft slot considered to be "shit all over" him?
If he stops sucking as an NFL starter, then you'll see much less negativity.
If OP wants to turn off comments and just get likes, Twitter has that option.
It's great that Daniel Jones is putting in the work with his new teammates this summer. What would be better is if he played a LOT better than he has so far in his career.
That's all Britt wants. No feedback, just likes.
I can't even fathom how he'd cope with getting ratio'd.
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praises everything positive about Jones as being "insightful"?? That's just bullshit.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
People feel compelled to post negative comments because his play generates negative feelings for anyone who wants to see the Giants win.
Two years in, Daniel Jones sucks. Hopefully he doesn't suck in year three.
The rest, like the story in the thread starter, doesn't matter.
You're "compelled" to post negative comments on Jones?
All for freedom of speech of this fan board as I like to hear genuine opinions come through in posts, but this feels a bit overboard.
How come you're not just as compelled to post how you hope he plays better like you state above?
Because who cares what any of us hopes? I'm more interested in what's actually happening - and to this point Jones actually hasn't been good.
Hopes and wishes don't matter.
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In comment 15300662 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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praises everything positive about Jones as being "insightful"?? That's just bullshit.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
People feel compelled to post negative comments because his play generates negative feelings for anyone who wants to see the Giants win.
Two years in, Daniel Jones sucks. Hopefully he doesn't suck in year three.
The rest, like the story in the thread starter, doesn't matter.
You're "compelled" to post negative comments on Jones?
All for freedom of speech of this fan board as I like to hear genuine opinions come through in posts, but this feels a bit overboard.
How come you're not just as compelled to post how you hope he plays better like you state above?
It could be because Jones has been one of the "worst" QBs in the NFL since taking over the gig.
Do we have to pretend that everyone who wears blue is a fucking superstar?
Jones might well take the next step this year. He might become a good or even a great NFL QB this year.
But to date, he sucks.
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
Because I want to actually talk football with knowledgeable fans.
We can skip each other going forward.
Even though nobody supposedly cares what people hope for........
One of many contradictions
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In comment 15300751 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15300662 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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praises everything positive about Jones as being "insightful"?? That's just bullshit.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
People feel compelled to post negative comments because his play generates negative feelings for anyone who wants to see the Giants win.
Two years in, Daniel Jones sucks. Hopefully he doesn't suck in year three.
The rest, like the story in the thread starter, doesn't matter.
You're "compelled" to post negative comments on Jones?
All for freedom of speech of this fan board as I like to hear genuine opinions come through in posts, but this feels a bit overboard.
How come you're not just as compelled to post how you hope he plays better like you state above?
It could be because Jones has been one of the "worst" QBs in the NFL since taking over the gig.
Do we have to pretend that everyone who wears blue is a fucking superstar?
Jones might well take the next step this year. He might become a good or even a great NFL QB this year.
But to date, he sucks.
Oh yes, I agree he has struggled mightily. And there is nothing wrong with stating that, even as fact.
But to be compelled to do it feels like it is a whole other level. No?
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In comment 15300796 NYGgolfer said:
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In comment 15300751 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15300662 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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praises everything positive about Jones as being "insightful"?? That's just bullshit.
The point is - an article detailing Jones working with the WR's was posted. Very straightforward - and yet some felt compelled to post something negative.
Had absolutely nothing to do with the reason the thread was started.
People feel compelled to post negative comments because his play generates negative feelings for anyone who wants to see the Giants win.
Two years in, Daniel Jones sucks. Hopefully he doesn't suck in year three.
The rest, like the story in the thread starter, doesn't matter.
You're "compelled" to post negative comments on Jones?
All for freedom of speech of this fan board as I like to hear genuine opinions come through in posts, but this feels a bit overboard.
How come you're not just as compelled to post how you hope he plays better like you state above?
It could be because Jones has been one of the "worst" QBs in the NFL since taking over the gig.
Do we have to pretend that everyone who wears blue is a fucking superstar?
Jones might well take the next step this year. He might become a good or even a great NFL QB this year.
But to date, he sucks.
Oh yes, I agree he has struggled mightily. And there is nothing wrong with stating that, even as fact.
But to be compelled to do it feels like it is a whole other level. No?
Why is it somehow worse to recognize his shortcomings thus far while some fans just act like DJ is the next Aaron Rodgers with absolutely no evidence to support that?
There are two things I can't stand:
1) the Giants sucking
2) Giants fans becoming the equivalent of Cowboys fans, and celebrating mediocrity
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How come you're not just as compelled to post how you hope he plays better like you state above?
Because who cares what any of us hopes? I'm more interested in what's actually happening - and to this point Jones actually hasn't been good.
Hopes and wishes don't matter.
I agree they don't matter in the calculus.
I guess some fans are just "compelled" to say they hope their favorite team plays better.
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games start in a few months, what would you like to talk about on Jones that hasn’t already been stated?
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
Because I want to actually talk football with knowledgeable fans.
We can skip each other going forward.
Wasn’t talking to you, but please feel free to skip regardless.
Even though nobody supposedly cares what people hope for........
One of many contradictions
Fair point.
We should absolutely allow the colors-with-crayons crew to find reasons to celebrate things that genuinely don't matter.
It's not like Britt has a history of starting threads with the intention of picking a fight or anything.
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In comment 15300810 UConn4523 said:
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games start in a few months, what would you like to talk about on Jones that hasn’t already been stated?
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
Because I want to actually talk football with knowledgeable fans.
We can skip each other going forward.
Wasn’t talking to you, but please feel free to skip regardless.
My point stands.
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
What are you on this site for? As far as I can tell it's little more than to complain about other posters.
I think the interesting discussions around the Giants right now are:
- What is the balance of power between Gettleman and Judge?
- What are the mistakes of the past three years and how have they shaped today's roster?
- How long are the Giants going to tolerate bad football from Daniel Jones? Just 2021? 2022?
- Anything involving next year's draft QB prospects.
There's a lot to talk about.
Why is it somehow worse to recognize his shortcomings thus far while some fans just act like DJ is the next Aaron Rodgers with absolutely no evidence to support that?
There are two things I can't stand:
1) the Giants sucking
2) Giants fans becoming the equivalent of Cowboys fans, and celebrating mediocrity
It isn't worse to recognize Jones' shortcomings. To be forcibly driven to do so feels like it is approaching worse though.
And I don't like 1 & 2 either.
why shouldn't the interesting discussions be about the moves the Giants have made this offseason and their impact on their success or failure?
What does the balance of power between the GM and HC have to do with anything and what interesting debate come of it? You just want to keep a referendum on Gettleman, Jones and Barkley it seems.
why shouldn't the interesting discussions be about the moves the Giants have made this offseason and their impact on their success or failure?
What does the balance of power between the GM and HC have to do with anything and what interesting debate come of it? You just want to keep a referendum on Gettleman, Jones and Barkley it seems.
Speaking solely for myself, the reason for discussing past failures is that they are the only valid data points that we have for the past several years.
This franchise has sucked out loud for the past eight years with the exception of one outlier season that ended in an embarrassing defeat. Why are we supposed to act as though the reality is somehow inconsistent with that fact?
I really want the Giants to get their act together and win more games than they lose. But they haven't done that since 2016. Why are we required to pretend like they have?
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Why is it somehow worse to recognize his shortcomings thus far while some fans just act like DJ is the next Aaron Rodgers with absolutely no evidence to support that?
There are two things I can't stand:
1) the Giants sucking
2) Giants fans becoming the equivalent of Cowboys fans, and celebrating mediocrity
It isn't worse to recognize Jones' shortcomings. To be forcibly driven to do so feels like it is approaching worse though.
And I don't like 1 & 2 either.
Jones, to date, is what he is. He's a mediocre QB, with a penchant for dynamic mobility, and an uncertain balance between playmaking and turnovers. That's what we know from his first two years.
The polyannas don't want to accept any of that. They want to discuss the world where DJ becomes Aaron Rodgers, just like they wanted to mount the Eli Revenge Tour.
It's all fiction until proven otherwise. I'm not sure why refusing to play along with that nonsense means that anyone is less of a fan.
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games start in a few months, what would you like to talk about on Jones that hasn’t already been stated?
Genuinely curious because you’ve never really given me an answer or one that makes sense. Talking about the future isn’t hoping and wishing just because you say it is. pointing out how a different scheme, new players, etc can positively effect Jones and the offense are actual talking points, but for some reason you are interested in having them.
If all you are going to say is “he hasn’t shown that to date” what exactly are you on this site for?
What are you on this site for? As far as I can tell it's little more than to complain about other posters.
I think the interesting discussions around the Giants right now are:
- What is the balance of power between Gettleman and Judge?
- What are the mistakes of the past three years and how have they shaped today's roster?
- How long are the Giants going to tolerate bad football from Daniel Jones? Just 2021? 2022?
- Anything involving next year's draft QB prospects.
There's a lot to talk about.
I've tried many times engaging in conversations with you but you only want it on your terms which is "why is DG still here" or "how can you trust Jones" or anything along those lines. And when those questions are answered, often times with reasonable replies the response is always the same. So that's why I ask "what now"? What are you looking to get out of this?
I think its pretty clear are looking for someone to prove you wrong, you aren't actually looking for a discussion. The funny part is don't think you are wrong, you just have zero ability to talk about the future since it didn't happen yet.
I'll take a stab at your questions though, lets see how this goes.
- What is the balance of power between Gettleman and Judge?
Answer - Judge seems to have a larger say in roster construction, and the "program" as a whole seems to be his. All hires likely go through him now and that means what will happen at OC. I don't think he's negotiating contracts but i think he's got a synergy with Gettelman and Abrams on players he wants and how long he'd want them for. I don't think he has final say or anything but definitely way more power than this time last year.
- What are the mistakes of the past three years and how have they shaped today's roster?
Answer - stated about 10,000 times on this site, do you really not know?
- How long are the Giants going to tolerate bad football from Daniel Jones? Just 2021? 2022?
Answer - Seems to me like if the answer to question 1 is accurate, he will have 2021, maybe not even the full season if he can't win some games.
- Anything involving next year's draft QB prospects.
Answer - don't know, don't have any opinion on prospects at this time.
I guess I just never felt I was compelled to do it.
You can have last word on this too.
Jones, to date, is what he is. He's a mediocre QB, with a penchant for dynamic mobility, and an uncertain balance between playmaking and turnovers. That's what we know from his first two years.
The polyannas don't want to accept any of that. They want to discuss the world where DJ becomes Aaron Rodgers, just like they wanted to mount the Eli Revenge Tour.
It's all fiction until proven otherwise. I'm not sure why refusing to play along with that nonsense means that anyone is less of a fan.
The simplest way to put it is that some people are going to require that Daniel Jones actually perform on the field before assuming he's the guy. In the overwhelming majority of his games so far in his career, he's been average or worse - and that's not up for debate.
Some people insist that the few exceptional games are more representative of Jones' career outlook than the much larger sample of mediocrity he's shown.
I'm sure we'd all love it if he was the guy who threw 13 TDs and 0 INTs in pillow fights against WAS, DET, and NYJ - that's certainly preferable to the guy who has thrown 22 TDs and 22 INTs (plus all the fumbles) in his other 23 starts.
And if you they want to believe that, they're certainly welcome to, though it's foolish to expect everyone to go along with it.
And yes, Daniel Jones is working hard this summer, and given what he's shown so far, HE DAMN WELL SHOULD BE. It's professional football, the results are what matters.
If someone posts nonsense like "every QB does this" then call it out. But that was the only post on this thread that seemed to "push a narrative."
Well, I made this point. It may be overstated - Covid definitely impacted off-season work these last two years - but the fact remains what Jones was doing here wasn't something unusual. And since Jones been an average QB - at best, to date - one should expect him to do these things. I know I do.
Bottom line - I just don't see the need to give this a round of applause. It comes with the job.
I answered your hard hitting questions, got anything on that or no?
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If trying to engage is so difficult for you, don't try. You always end up the same way anyway...whining.
I answered your hard hitting questions, got anything on that or no?
I don't. I guess we can get back to the whimsy of Jones being "at it again".
Uconn likes being a gatekeeping bitch. That's one reason I lurk more than I post. Can't express a football opinion here without some whiny dipshit like him chiming in. We should be able to bust each others balls on a football site without some fucking nerd analyzing the quality of our posts.
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If someone posts nonsense like "every QB does this" then call it out. But that was the only post on this thread that seemed to "push a narrative."
Well, I made this point. It may be overstated - Covid definitely impacted off-season work these last two years - but the fact remains what Jones was doing here wasn't something unusual. And since Jones been an average QB - at best, to date - one should expect him to do these things. I know I do.
Bottom line - I just don't see the need to give this a round of applause. It comes with the job.
If it's so common, how come every QB doesn't do it?
Mahomes, for one, doesn't. And no, obviously I'm not comparing their abilities as a QB. But you stated "every QB does it", and that simply isn't true...
What this boiled down to is that bw tried to throw shade on Jones and didn't realize he had little clue on what he was talking about. Now he's relying on the idea that most NFL QB's do this - which they don't.
He seems to be happy to wade in his ignorance as he's come back to still float the same narrative.
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reasonable that on a thread about working out with a receiver group that fans hopes have to be tempered.
Even though nobody supposedly cares what people hope for........
One of many contradictions
Fair point.
We should absolutely allow the colors-with-crayons crew to find reasons to celebrate things that genuinely don't matter.
It's not like Britt has a history of starting threads with the intention of picking a fight or anything.
Dude you are so o0verplaying it, it's beyond ridiculous. I have not seen one person ever post that Jones is even half Aaron Rodgers, or saying he hasn't shown negatives.
Find me one. You are mistaking looking at the big picture and relating factors (i.e. TEAM) and showing optimism for him to be better and a good QB this season. And if he doesn't we have 2 first round picks. Meanwhile in EVERY SINGLE THREAD that shows any optimism you get the same 5 or so guys swooping in with the SAME tired shit. If that's fun for you, I guess nobody can stop you. But it sucks to read on EVERY DAMN Jones thread already. Over and over.
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If trying to engage is so difficult for you, don't try. You always end up the same way anyway...whining.
Uconn likes being a gatekeeping bitch. That's one reason I lurk more than I post. Can't express a football opinion here without some whiny dipshit like him chiming in. We should be able to bust each others balls on a football site without some fucking nerd analyzing the quality of our posts.
Remember when Barkley dances and the data said he didn’t? Those were good times.
That isn’t gate keeping, that’s providing information to dispel your opinion which you are free to have and I’m free to disagree with.
Thanks for the name calling too, love it!
Does the team look better on paper? Yeah. Does this workout add to looking better on paper? Yeah
Does that paper mean jack? No
I don't expect every workout by other teams to be published. I view this stuff as a puff piece to get the boomers excited about his work ethic since the play on the field has been terrible. I remember when Jacobs was in clear decline, we'd get some article talking about his upcoming bounce back due to how hard he was working in the off-season. Meaningless bullshit.
I have no idea how Jones will turn out but I find it concerning that the things most commonly pointed to are Jones' work ethic and Eli/Simms - guys who entered the league >15 and >40 years ago.
SI - ( New Window )
So Jones works hard. So what? Who gives a shit? He lacks a basic skill required for him to be good at his job. That makes him a bad draft pick, and makes it likely the Giants will look like fools for having stuck with him this long.
Playing QB well in the NFL is really hard. It's no shame on Jones if he can't do it. The problem is the organization acting like he can.
What do you want them to do - replace him already? Oh wait - sign Nick Fucking Mullens??
The problem actually is coming on every Jones thread to say he can't play well and everyone is just wasting their time thinking he might.
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Playing QB well in the NFL is really hard. It's no shame on Jones if he can't do it. The problem is the organization acting like he can.
What do you want them to do - replace him already? Oh wait - sign Nick Fucking Mullens??
The problem actually is coming on every Jones thread to say he can't play well and everyone is just wasting their time thinking he might.
Shhh. It’s 25 games into a career, with some of it injured. It’s not really that possible at this point to know what he has or hasn’t. Period. Just ignore them..
What this boiled down to is that bw tried to throw shade on Jones and didn't realize he had little clue on what he was talking about. Now he's relying on the idea that most NFL QB's do this - which they don't.
He seems to be happy to wade in his ignorance as he's come back to still float the same narrative.
I didn't throw shade on Jones. I just didn't give him a trophy for doing something that is indeed regularly done.
But if you want to believe that Jones is breaking down new ground here than by all means enjoy your fantasy...
Calm down, man.
I'll go back and re-read what I've written here but don't think I'll find anything that justifies what you are doing here.
Becomes a BBI meme for winning game after game.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/04/16/patrick-mahomes-worked-out-with-his-receivers-before-offseason-program/
https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/19/kansas-city-chiefs-qb-patrick-mahomes-working-with-receivers-ahead-of-training-camp/
There was no comparison. There was no saying Daniel Jones is setting an example to other QB's. Nothing like that. Nada.
bw stated that all QB's hold week long passing camps for their skill position players ever year.
They do not. Mahomes and Herbert were just randomly selected, by me, to see if that statement was accurate.
That's it. I thought Jones was showing good leadership and the desire to work his ass off to get better.
That's it. Yet here we are, 165 posts later doing THIS.
I personally don't feel compelled to research that, but then again, I didn't inject that into the thread either.
I care that the Giants QB is doing it. And he's done it at least twice already this offseason. And that shows leadership. And I personally don't care if anybody thinks that's important or not.
It's important to me, as a Giants fan. And I am hopeful, YES HOPEFUL, that all of this extra work pays off this upcoming season.
If anybody has a problem with that, they can shove it, I personally do not care.
I personally don't feel compelled to research that, but then again, I didn't inject that into the thread either.
Do whatever research you want. But you certainly did inject an incorrect statement about Mahomes into the thread in an effort to help prop up DJ's actions (which are good but not uncommon). And then others jumped on that incorrect bandwagon to pile on another poster.
But it wasn't true...
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/04/16/patrick-mahomes-worked-out-with-his-receivers-before-offseason-program/
https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/19/kansas-city-chiefs-qb-patrick-mahomes-working-with-receivers-ahead-of-training-camp/
Right.
Look, I may have overstated my case on this. But I feel very comfortable that quite a few QBs do this. So when I read some of the adulation that followed that seemed disproportionate to something that wasn't that uncommon.
But you know the 5th Commandment at BBI...Thou Shall Not Criticize The Highly Drafted QB...
1) It allows them to mask the inept jobs that members of their organization do all the time. We got so many stories about how the offensive line was turning around, almost every offseason to sell the idea that what the Giants were doing wasn't actually as irresponsible as it was. As one of many examples.
2) There is a toxic hubris in the organization that has just started to be rooted out since JJ was hired. There is little doubt in my mind that the Giants are convinced that Eli Manning's career and the Giants way caused all those championships, they clearly didn't value Coughlin and probably thought the culture that they pat themselves on the back for so much. Eli is a humble guy and I'm sure fed into this. They told themselves that a smart, driven QB could just plug into the "Giants way" and would be automatically successful. That's why we get these constant Phil Simms and Eli Manning comparisons. They reached big time for Jones because they told themselves this. And all the credit in the world goes to them if they can indeed still do this. But let us not in any way shape or form confuse this working with it being a good idea that they told themselves it was a good idea to overdraft a player that had serious warts and obstacles to becoming an NFL QB #6.
And this shouldn't be a mystery why it's happening to you Britt. If you just fawn all over whoever the Giants QB is, it's going to make it harder to agree with you. People are tired of all of this puffery about the Giants. I think that's where there has become a stark difference on this sight. Some people that just want to soak up all of the ear candy and be told these Giants fairy tales to the max whenever possible. And then people being like, well these fairy tales seem to be a part of the overall story that has seen our organization rot from the inside. I think that is a fair reason to have an aversion to these fairy tales.
What is also true is that the majority of QB's don't do this. Which is exactly what bw intimated and/or stated flat out was part of the job
You need to improve your gif game. This one is lame.
What is also true is that the majority of QB's don't do this. Which is exactly what bw intimated and/or stated flat out was part of the job
I didn't state that. I asked a question - "...don't all QBs do this?"
And then I said I expect NFL QBs to do this type of thing. So Jones, IMV, was just doing his job.
I care that the Giants QB is doing it. And he's done it at least twice already this offseason. And that shows leadership. And I personally don't care if anybody thinks that's important or not.
It's important to me, as a Giants fan. And I am hopeful, YES HOPEFUL, that all of this extra work pays off this upcoming season.
If anybody has a problem with that, they can shove it, I personally do not care.
At ANY moment.
You don't represent anything remotely approaching a balanced take. You've been the biggest NYG QB cheerleader for going on two decades now, for two separate QBs. Your ability to view our QB play objectively does not exist.
No one needs to shove anything besides your pom poms.
What is also true is that the majority of QB's don't do this. Which is exactly what bw intimated and/or stated flat out was part of the job
Just asking this purely out of curiosity - if the majority of QBs do NOT do this, and presumably that includes the QBs that many of us would consider in the upper echelon/elite group, does this offseason "leadership" actually have any correlation with winning football games?
It's presumably not a detriment, for sure. But is it actually any sort of advantage that we should be celebrating?
Or is this just another attempt by Britt to pick a fight and prove that he's the world's #1 Giants fan?
There was no comparison. There was no saying Daniel Jones is setting an example to other QB's. Nothing like that. Nada.
bw stated that all QB's hold week long passing camps for their skill position players ever year.
They do not. Mahomes and Herbert were just randomly selected, by me, to see if that statement was accurate.
That's it. I thought Jones was showing good leadership and the desire to work his ass off to get better.
That's it. Yet here we are, 165 posts later doing THIS.
And there it is.
NYG's #1 superfan likes to count how many posts his threads generate.
Because he had surgery on his foot/toe in February 2021, and was expected to be in a boot for several months and is still recovering.
Or did you not want to give that color?
I'll refrain for doing the same to you on why you act like an insufferable prick on a message board.
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Patrick Mahomes was ONLY brought up in response to bw's initial post and ONLY because he was one of the two random QB's that immediately came to mind to search.
There was no comparison. There was no saying Daniel Jones is setting an example to other QB's. Nothing like that. Nada.
bw stated that all QB's hold week long passing camps for their skill position players ever year.
They do not. Mahomes and Herbert were just randomly selected, by me, to see if that statement was accurate.
That's it. I thought Jones was showing good leadership and the desire to work his ass off to get better.
That's it. Yet here we are, 165 posts later doing THIS.
And there it is.
NYG's #1 superfan likes to count how many posts his threads generate.
You're the one talking about likes and ratios. I had to look up what ratioed even meant. I don't do Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, or whatever else it is you kids are looking at these days.
Not some referendum on him winning championships or anything else. Just a simple posting of an article.
And what was the response of some? That every QB does this or that Jones work ethic is fine but his talent sucks.
What this shows is if a positive thread about Jones is started, several posters will jump in to make sure we are blatantly aware that he sucks....
That's it. Not worth my time on this thread anymore. Have at it.
Because he had surgery on his foot/toe in February 2021, and was expected to be in a boot for several months and is still recovering.
Or did you not want to give that color?
That is correct.
You know, we could be getting close here to an escape hatch moment. So be ready...
Just look at the NFC East teams. Jones is the only one to hold these workouts. Hurts actually worked out with a group of WR's from around the league - not his own team.
Again - Carolina hasn't had a QB hold workouts since Jake Delhomme.
But hey - if you want to revel in spreading a false narrative, have at it, Ace. Wouldn't be the first time.
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In comment 15300957 Britt in VA said:
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Patrick Mahomes was ONLY brought up in response to bw's initial post and ONLY because he was one of the two random QB's that immediately came to mind to search.
There was no comparison. There was no saying Daniel Jones is setting an example to other QB's. Nothing like that. Nada.
bw stated that all QB's hold week long passing camps for their skill position players ever year.
They do not. Mahomes and Herbert were just randomly selected, by me, to see if that statement was accurate.
That's it. I thought Jones was showing good leadership and the desire to work his ass off to get better.
That's it. Yet here we are, 165 posts later doing THIS.
And there it is.
NYG's #1 superfan likes to count how many posts his threads generate.
You're the one talking about likes and ratios. I had to look up what ratioed even meant. I don't do Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, or whatever else it is you kids are looking at these days.
LOL, "you kids."
We're the same fucking age. You're just out of touch with anything that doesn't involve a Giants QB.
Not some referendum on him winning championships or anything else. Just a simple posting of an article.
And what was the response of some? That every QB does this or that Jones work ethic is fine but his talent sucks.
What this shows is if a positive thread about Jones is started, several posters will jump in to make sure we are blatantly aware that he sucks....
And if someone expresses doubts about Jones, several posters will show up to praise him and push their narrative.
And still you don't see how those two things are exactly the same?
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/drew-brees-offers-high-praise-of-justin-herbert-after-attending-chargers-minicamp-practice/
I am going to assume we are done with these examples, right?
If you believe Jones simply doesn't have the talent to succeed as an NFL QB and are frustrated that the Giants are sticking with him, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
If you are in the middle and hoping for some improvement but skeptical...well that is fine too.
But if you can't understand that others on this site holds one of those other, valid opinions...YOU ARE THE FUCKING PROBLEM WITH THIS SITE.
And if you start a thread about Daniel Jones, you should understand people will post their opinions about Daniel Jones on said thread.
The guys inside the building - from Judge to the bevy of offensive and defensive teammates who have gone on record - seem to absolutely love the guy and back him 100%.
That's what speaks volumes. He's not getting lip-service. He's won over the guys who know what's going on. Everyone knows this is the year he has to produce. But he has done the work to earn respect where it counts.
From the Desk of John Mara
Note to self: Remove Dave Gettleman from all roster decision-making responsibilities in 2021
The guys inside the building - from Judge to the bevy of offensive and defensive teammates who have gone on record - seem to absolutely love the guy and back him 100%.
That's what speaks volumes. He's not getting lip-service. He's won over the guys who know what's going on. Everyone knows this is the year he has to produce. But he has done the work to earn respect where it counts.
There is absolutely no question that the entire Giants franchise backs Jones. He has their full support and endorsements up and down the chain of command.
But he hasn't yet demonstrated a consistent level of play that matches the confidence that the organization has in him. I agree, he's been hamstrung to some degree by the supporting cast he's had (although I maintain that there's some validity to the argument that a great QB elevates those around him rather than being sunk by them, but I digress). This year, with a much improved WR corps, a solid move-the-chains TE, a (hopefully) healthy Barkley, and what should be a better OL, there should no longer be any excuses. Anything can happen, injuries might blow the whole thing up, etc. But if this offensive group as currently assembled cannot show significant improvement from last year with Jones at the helm, all the votes of confidence in the world won't magically make DJ a franchise QB.
He's an open question. He's not a bust by any stretch. But he's not a hit yet either. He has to take the next step, and it's going to have to be a pretty significant one if we're going to be a winning team.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/drew-brees-offers-high-praise-of-justin-herbert-after-attending-chargers-minicamp-practice/
I am going to assume we are done with these examples, right?
LOL. You posted an article about a minicamp practice. One that was team organized. Really reaching here, but not surprising.
The guys inside the building - from Judge to the bevy of offensive and defensive teammates who have gone on record - seem to absolutely love the guy and back him 100%.
That's what speaks volumes. He's not getting lip-service. He's won over the guys who know what's going on. Everyone knows this is the year he has to produce. But he has done the work to earn respect where it counts.
And none of it matters if he doesn't produce. The QB can't just be a "roleplayer"
Also, who was responsible for giving DJ such a garbage supporting cast? Was it not the same person who drafted DJ? If he messed up the rest of the roster how can anyone be certain he was right about DJ?
IMO Jones should be viewed through the same lens as every other DG decision prior to the arrival of Judge: as a mistake
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This article talks about how he got together practicing with Keenan Allen and others well before voluntary team activities...
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/drew-brees-offers-high-praise-of-justin-herbert-after-attending-chargers-minicamp-practice/
I am going to assume we are done with these examples, right?
LOL. You posted an article about a minicamp practice. One that was team organized. Really reaching here, but not surprising.
LOL. I guess you didn’t read the linked article…
“Herbert had taken steps towards learning Lombardi's offense prior to OTAs. He spoke to Brees, who won a Super Bowl with Lombardi serving as his quarterbacks coach. Herbert also reached out to his new center, All-Pro Corey Linsley. He began throwing passes with Keenan Allen and several other teammates well before the start of voluntary team activities. “
If there's one thing he has in spades, it's absolutely that (and straight line speed, lol).
LOL. You posted an article about a minicamp practice. One that was team organized. Really reaching here, but not surprising.
Give me your address and I'll send you a crowbar to help you remove your foot from your mouth. Per the article...
How are we getting to the idea that DJ is a better leader than an average NFL QB?
It seems like many people want to use how many people gush about a player in the media as the metric. It would be easy to argue that is a conscious effort to raise the confidence of a player as it is real leadership qualities. Or an effort to justify the significant resources invested in said player already.
How many other QBs would people identify as good leaders that haven't done much of any winning in college or the pros?
I am very specifically not saying we know him for sure to be a bad leader, I just have no idea what tangible things we have to point to that says he is indeed a good leader. To me the best leaders are results oriented not about optics. Full stop.
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This article talks about how he got together practicing with Keenan Allen and others well before voluntary team activities...
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/drew-brees-offers-high-praise-of-justin-herbert-after-attending-chargers-minicamp-practice/
I am going to assume we are done with these examples, right?
LOL. You posted an article about a minicamp practice. One that was team organized. Really reaching here, but not surprising.
No, don't bother apologizing. Just reach for this...
Look, what's being reported here on Jones is exactly what he should be doing. He's struggled with consistency and performance through two years. So he needs to be optimizing his time trying to get better.
Let's hope all this work pays a big dividend on the field...
On the flip side though, nothing is going to annoy teammates or veterans more than you putting the ball on the ground or throwing it to the other team. It doesn't matter how likable you are, that "trust" will erode pretty fast.
That's why especially all this lip service seems manufactured. Until you win games these honeymoon off-season's could turn tense pretty quickly in the games. If you are winning you can get away with turnovers. But if you are losing and turning the ball over, forget it. Anyone that wants to say you are a good leader when you pull that is doing so for a purpose other than being honest.
Who knows if Jones pans out but as I mentioned more than a few times in the past, at this point I REALLY want him to kick ass and chew bubble gum this upcoming season just so I don't have to wade through this ridiculous bullshit on every G*D*mn Jones thread for AT LEAST a month... Hell I'll take even just a SOLID DAY at this point... LMAO
The problem is that when optimistic narratives are heavily passed off as the truth it has given the team too much cover to wallow in shit. It honestly never ceases to amaze me how much this continues despite how bad it has gotten. I swear, we could go 3-13 this year and some of you would be like we went .500 in our last 4 games! We are only one year removed from the pandemic, Jones needs another year to know what we've got!
I still am in shock that someone took issue with someone mocking the ownership group on a thread about us being the worst team in terms of posting a winning record. That's not even hyperbole, I read it a few times to make sure I actually saw what I saw.
Everyone on this site is hoping that Jones has a stellar year and is the Giants QB for the long term. That means the Giants are winning, which is what all of us want.
If we could lose the fan virtue signalers who insist all fans must hold the same opinions, simple threads like this would stop becoming days long train wrecks.
Everyone on this site is hoping that Jones has a stellar year and is the Giants QB for the long term. That means the Giants are winning, which is what all of us want.
If we could lose the fan virtue signalers who insist all fans must hold the same opinions, simple threads like this would stop becoming days long train wrecks.
Everyone on this site is hoping that Jones has a stellar year and is the Giants QB for the long term. That means the Giants are winning, which is what all of us want.
Mike, most, yes. Some absolutely not. I will not name names, but we know..
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that continue to insist that people who doubt Jones are bad fans, miserable people, and drooling idiots.
Everyone on this site is hoping that Jones has a stellar year and is the Giants QB for the long term. That means the Giants are winning, which is what all of us want.
If we could lose the fan virtue signalers who insist all fans must hold the same opinions, simple threads like this would stop becoming days long train wrecks.
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Everyone on this site is hoping that Jones has a stellar year and is the Giants QB for the long term. That means the Giants are winning, which is what all of us want.
Mike, most, yes. Some absolutely not. I will not name names, but we know..
I don't believe that at all. I think there are people that are convinced (probably too much so) that Jones can't succeed as an NFL QB and are anxious for the Giants to move on from him. I don't think that is the same thing as hoping he fails. Those fans are frustrated by the Giants losing and will view things much differently if Jones can change that.
Is there some degree of "I don't want to be on the wrong side of this?" Absolutely. Unfortunately this board is full of posters who flaunt when they are right and disappear when they are wrong. And that is also on both sides of the issue.
It's why these threads become so ludicrous.
The DJ debate as of now is relatively easy, at least for me. I think he’ll be fine, but how the hell do I really know? I don’t neither does anyone else, imv. This is a probable telling year for him.
See how flucking easy that is? :)
The DJ debate as of now is relatively easy, at least for me. I think he’ll be fine, but how the hell do I really know? I don’t neither does anyone else, imv. This is a probable telling year for him.
See how flucking easy that is? :)
What makes smart people smart is knowing what they don't know. We all have opinions on what we think Jones will be, which may differ from what we want him to be.
Absolutely nobody knows for sure what he will be. If more people realized their opinion was just that - an opinion that may be right or wrong - we'd stop having this idiocy.
But I do believe everyone on this site is a Giants fan and wants the Giants to win. Once we start calling people's fandom or motives into question, we moved from a discussion to a pissing contest.
@JordanRaanan
·
9m
Daniel Jones at it again. This time back at Duke working out with his old
@DukeFOOTBALL
friend Jamison Crowder. If it doesn’t work out, certainly won’t be for lack of effort. Dude’s work ethic is off the charts.