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The Giants aren’t concerned about character issues with Kadarius Toney, but should they be? — Jonathan S. I don’t know if it’s fair to say the Giants aren’t concerned with character issues with Toney. It’s more accurate to say they’re comfortable with any red flags in his background after vetting him during the pre-draft process. Now, teams do copious research on prospects every year and still get it wrong sometimes. I don’t know Toney well enough to determine if there are serious character issues that will impact his career. I do know teams had concerns about how Toney would transition to the NFL. “I don’t think he’s a bad kid, I just don’t think it’s necessarily clean,” an executive from another team told me after the draft. “There’s multiple reasons why it could go wrong. They could be football reasons or they could potentially be off-the-field reasons, too.” I have heartburn over the Toney pick. The guy just seems unreliable. Am I jumping to conclusions? I wish we’d gone with Rashod Bateman or Elijah Moore. — Kevin D. It’s too early to draw any conclusions since Toney has only been a Giant for two months and we haven’t even gotten to training camp. But your heartburn would have been eased if Toney had a less eventful spring. Nothing that happened with Toney during this offseason was significant in its own right. But for a player who arrived with some questions, it was disconcerting that there were so many issues that kept him off the field — cleat problems, minor injuries, an unsigned contract, a family emergency. The fact that Toney raps isn’t a problem. That he got so bothered by criticism about his hobby that he fired back on Twitter makes you wonder if his social media activity will cause headaches. Bateman, who went 27th to the Ravens, and Moore, who went 34th to the Jets, would have been safer picks: more college production, fewer character questions. But neither possesses the upside of the dynamic Toney. The Giants took some risks this offseason, and Toney was another swing for the fences in an attempt to upgrade the roster’s talent level. What do you expect Toney’s role to be Week 1? — Aidan W. As noted above, we didn’t get to see much of Toney this spring. But his college film and the few glimpses during the offseason program show a player with rare ability with the ball in his hands. That type of playmaking ability should translate seamlessly to the NFL, but Toney needs refinement as a route runner before he can be trusted to fill a major role on offense. I expect the Giants to bring Toney along slowly. He should be the starting punt returner from Day 1, but his offensive snaps will likely begin with specialized packages with the hope that he’ll grow into a bigger role as the season progresses. |
It s football, these guys aren’t choir boys, sometimes you have to take a chance on talent.
True, but this was a reasonable take, imv
Now, teams do copious research on prospects every year and still get it wrong sometimes. I don’t know Toney well enough to determine if there are serious character issues that will impact his career. I do know teams had concerns about how Toney would transition to the NFL.
“I don’t think he’s a bad kid, I just don’t think it’s necessarily clean,” an executive from another team told me after the draft. “There’s multiple reasons why it could go wrong. They could be football reasons or they could potentially be off-the-field reasons, too.”
"...would have been eased if Toney had a less eventful spring."
No injuries, no arrest, nothing... but a cleat issue and a family emergency is all it takes to chalk it up as an "eventful spring"... Jesus fucking Christ
"...would have been eased if Toney had a less eventful spring."
No injuries, no arrest, nothing... but a cleat issue and a family emergency is all it takes to chalk it up as an "eventful spring"... Jesus fucking Christ
Re “Rap,” because so many others (including some on here) have brought it up, that’s why.
But on the same token, everyone creates their own reputation with the actions they take. What are the facts? He showed up for the rookie mini camp had issues with his cleats. He still ran some routes without a cleat but missed time. He missed voluntary OTAs, I believe. There was nothing of note with mandatory OTAs. I believe he was excused for a family emergency. He posted pictures on social media of him buying jewelry so he had time for that.
People have a reason to be concerned because that is the perception he has put out there. I think it is premature but we'll soon find out.
I don't agree with this. I think it is about his passion of football being questioned as people are saying he cares more about music than putting in the necessary work to succeed at the NFL level.
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Lol then why bring it up... full of shit
"...would have been eased if Toney had a less eventful spring."
No injuries, no arrest, nothing... but a cleat issue and a family emergency is all it takes to chalk it up as an "eventful spring"... Jesus fucking Christ
Re “Rap,” because so many others (including some on here) have brought it up, that’s why.
He was answering a specific guys question... no one brought that up he just threw that in his answer, I thought it was weird, but ok.
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it's not about Rap, but all about personal associations. If Toney, or anyone in the employment of an NFL team becomes aware of questionable criminal associations, that's the red flag. This has zero to do with rap, or the reputation of rap artists... NFL teams don't have a legal right to know who players are associating with. If there is one lesson from Aaron Hernandez, it's that associations are important.
I don't agree with this. I think it is about his passion of football being questioned as people are saying he cares more about music than putting in the necessary work to succeed at the NFL level.
Not sure I agree. I think if he played the guitar and made rock music the optics would be far different. In fact, I don't think we'd hear much about it at all.
I don't know how many but I'd wager a vast majority of NFL players have big passions outside of football life and we mostly don't hear about them because they don't sound threatening.
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In comment 15299850 BamaBlue said:
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it's not about Rap, but all about personal associations. If Toney, or anyone in the employment of an NFL team becomes aware of questionable criminal associations, that's the red flag. This has zero to do with rap, or the reputation of rap artists... NFL teams don't have a legal right to know who players are associating with. If there is one lesson from Aaron Hernandez, it's that associations are important.
I don't agree with this. I think it is about his passion of football being questioned as people are saying he cares more about music than putting in the necessary work to succeed at the NFL level.
Not sure I agree. I think if he played the guitar and made rock music the optics would be far different. In fact, I don't think we'd hear much about it at all.
I don't know how many but I'd wager a vast majority of NFL players have big passions outside of football life and we mostly don't hear about them because they don't sound threatening.
The point is he basically didn't breakout until his last year in college. He also is not a polished WR. I think what I said is correct because we have also seen him not put in the effort that a lot expect. Again, we don't have the full story so it may not be fair but that is the perception. I don't buy your counter argument about the guitar. Look at Josh Rosen. He had that perception that football wasn't the most important thing in his life. Yes, everybody has outside interests. This isn't about outside interests. This is how important football is in their lives.
And I am not dismissing the crowd argument. There were rumors about him hanging out with the wrong people hence one of the reasons he had guns in his car. So, yes, that needed to be looked into. I just think those are separate situations and "rap" isn't code for something else. It is what he values more and will he put in the necessary work to succeed at the NFL level.
The question is, Is be a ding dong that can play? Also isn’t it possible he has to learn about what it takes to be an NFL player.
Pretty confident any bad attitude or behavior won’t be tolerated by Judge.
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he's a ding dong, at least. Hopefully, he will mature as he begins to realize the investment his pro career will require. He's not there yet.
The question is, Is be a ding dong that can play? Also isn’t it possible he has to learn about what it takes to be an NFL player.
Pretty confident any bad attitude or behavior won’t be tolerated by Judge.
He's in the NFL because he can play football. With a lot of players who do not succeed in the NFL, it's about their noggin and what's inside it, as well as their heart.
I'd rather not invest a #1 pick in a question mark(s), rather than spend a few years finding out the hard way, but that's just me.
The point is he basically didn't breakout until his last year in college. He also is not a polished WR. I think what I said is correct because we have also seen him not put in the effort that a lot expect. Again, we don't have the full story so it may not be fair but that is the perception. I don't buy your counter argument about the guitar. Look at Josh Rosen. He had that perception that football wasn't the most important thing in his life. Yes, everybody has outside interests. This isn't about outside interests. This is how important football is in their lives.
And I am not dismissing the crowd argument. There were rumors about him hanging out with the wrong people hence one of the reasons he had guns in his car. So, yes, that needed to be looked into. I just think those are separate situations and "rap" isn't code for something else. It is what he values more and will he put in the necessary work to succeed at the NFL level.
The flip side is that his breakout his final year demonstrates the commitment he made to football. By most accounts he worked very hard to turn himself into a first round prospect.
You can also argue that perception/expectations tilt things. If he didn't have "red flags" attached to him when he was drafted, then fans would've viewed him participating in drills barefoot (due to no fault of his own) as a sign of his dedication to the team. Instead, it somehow reflects poorly on him...
But on the same token, everyone creates their own reputation with the actions they take. What are the facts? He showed up for the rookie mini camp had issues with his cleats. He still ran some routes without a cleat but missed time. He missed voluntary OTAs, I believe. There was nothing of note with mandatory OTAs. I believe he was excused for a family emergency. He posted pictures on social media of him buying jewelry so he had time for that.
People have a reason to be concerned because that is the perception he has put out there. I think it is premature but we'll soon find out.
This^^^ Time will tell and he hasn't done anything aggregious to have me already calling this a bust pick, but the minor "issues/hiccups" got my attention. Cleats? can't say outside of someone with a concussion history not having the right helmet that I've heard of equipment issues keeping a guy from the field. To boot, him getting a little nicked up from it. That's concerning because we haven't arrived to the real action. The Twitter response has my attention as well. And I know he's a young guy and this generation lives by social media, but are we to expect that he will not have the same response if he gets attacked for his play on the field and it being tied to Yung Joka lol
Kevin Durant is a helluva lot more gifted at his game than Toney is at his, which is more of a comment on Durant's greatness than a shot at Toney.
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There aren't many people, let alone athletes, more sensitive to Twitter trolls than Kevin Durant and he's managed to do just fine...
Kevin Durant is a helluva lot more gifted at his game than Toney is at his, which is more of a comment on Durant's greatness than a shot at Toney.
Sure, KD is top 20 all time player. The point is that being sensitive to Twitter trolls doesn't preclude greatness. Not everyone is Derek Jeter.
2016 Michael Thomas #6 WR in that draft
2017 Curtis Samuel #5, Ju Ju #6 WR
2018 Sutherland #3, Chark #7
2019 AJ Brown #4
2020 Justin Jefferson #5.
I’m expecting a high ceiling very productive starter from day #1 unless we blew the pick as some teams do. Nothing less.
I can't wait for him to just "house-call" his first touch...***
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In comment 15299877 JonC said:
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he's a ding dong, at least. Hopefully, he will mature as he begins to realize the investment his pro career will require. He's not there yet.
The question is, Is be a ding dong that can play? Also isn’t it possible he has to learn about what it takes to be an NFL player.
Pretty confident any bad attitude or behavior won’t be tolerated by Judge.
He's in the NFL because he can play football. With a lot of players who do not succeed in the NFL, it's about their noggin and what's inside it, as well as their heart.
I'd rather not invest a #1 pick in a question mark(s), rather than spend a few years finding out the hard way, but that's just me.
That’s a valid point. I just think sometimes you need to take the chance
First it was the shoe issue. Nothing there.
Then it was not showing up for Voluntary OTA’s . Well they were voluntary.
Then a family emergency. Hope all is well.
Didn’t attend Jones’ ‘get together’ with Wide receivers. Well nether did Engram
None of these are red flags but put them together and the flag is a little pink
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In comment 15299886 joeinpa said:
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In comment 15299877 JonC said:
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he's a ding dong, at least. Hopefully, he will mature as he begins to realize the investment his pro career will require. He's not there yet.
The question is, Is be a ding dong that can play? Also isn’t it possible he has to learn about what it takes to be an NFL player.
Pretty confident any bad attitude or behavior won’t be tolerated by Judge.
He's in the NFL because he can play football. With a lot of players who do not succeed in the NFL, it's about their noggin and what's inside it, as well as their heart.
I'd rather not invest a #1 pick in a question mark(s), rather than spend a few years finding out the hard way, but that's just me.
That’s a valid point. I just think sometimes you need to take the chance
I understand, would just prefer to take the chance on a non-ding dong ... I'm hard-headed that way, spent and wasted too much time in my life dealing with ding dongs.
Not that Toney is anywhere near that but you get the point
First it was the shoe issue. Nothing there.
Then it was not showing up for Voluntary OTA’s . Well they were voluntary.
Then a family emergency. Hope all is well.
Didn’t attend Jones’ ‘get together’ with Wide receivers. Well nether did Engram
None of these are red flags but put them together and the flag is a little pink
First it was the shoe issue. Nothing there.
Then it was not showing up for Voluntary OTA’s . Well they were voluntary.
Then a family emergency. Hope all is well.
Didn’t attend Jones’ ‘get together’ with Wide receivers. Well nether did Engram
None of these are red flags but put them together and the flag is a little pink
Agree with this. Hopefully it’s no big deal, but with OBJ there were a lot of little things… and he had an army of fans that bent over backwards to explain why each incident wasn’t really a big deal. However, When you add up all the little incidents with OBJ you start to see him as more of a headache than he is worth… or at least that was my view of him.
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From my vantage view it’s been one thing after another.
First it was the shoe issue. Nothing there.
Then it was not showing up for Voluntary OTA’s . Well they were voluntary.
Then a family emergency. Hope all is well.
Didn’t attend Jones’ ‘get together’ with Wide receivers. Well nether did Engram
None of these are red flags but put them together and the flag is a little pink
Agree with this. Hopefully it’s no big deal, but with OBJ there were a lot of little things… and he had an army of fans that bent over backwards to explain why each incident wasn’t really a big deal. However, When you add up all the little incidents with OBJ you start to see him as more of a headache than he is worth… or at least that was my view of him.
There are definitely in that list a few items that at the very least show a lack of awareness.
Let s see what happens once camp begins and he s under the pressure of an NFL regiment.
Any particular reason you replaced some C's with K's?
Any particular reason you replaced three C's with K's?
Not that Toney is anywhere near that but you get the point
No disrespect to your friend but that quote explains a lot regarding Rutgers football when looking a the immediate years post-Schiano.
It's a simplistic take, but to me winning cures everything and losing is a stink that permeates anything.